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Who Decides What “Natural” Looks Like? · HKB Uncut | A Cosmetic Surgery Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Coming up on HKB Uncut.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: What does natural actually mean?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it is it always the goal?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: The trend now is to use the word to look natural, to be natural, to do all the stuff natural.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: But some patients, this is definitely G Speak, but some patients really want that operated look.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Aesthetic surgery doesn't like fix you.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's part of the generalized process to get to your best.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the big trend is breast augmentation above the muscle, right?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Social media, good or bad, it's good, but has its bad sides.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think without a doubt, we need to put a ban on social media for kids.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of these other countries are doing it.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there are situations though where like, yes, we do intervene on someone early.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: We need to do a breast reduction to relieve social ridicule or functional problems for ears that are sticking out really far, and the poor kids getting made fun of all the time.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And parents have to be careful too not to be pushing these ideas on their kids as well.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it could be the parents who are just saying, oh, your ears are funny, or they're kind of like ridiculing the child instead of like, you know, it happens, it happens more than you realize.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: What does natural actually mean?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it is it always the goal?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what does natural mean?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what we are striving for every time?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Bill, what's your let's let's explain what do you what do you to you what does natural mean?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take I'm gonna go back a step.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I think ultimately the goal with any surgery, any plastic surgery surgeon is we need to elicit what the patient ultimately wants.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's trying to figure out what that is for them, and we tailor the results based on what they're looking for.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So ultimately, the patient may want natural, but they really mean fake.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Patient may want fake, but they really mean natural.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think first and foremost, we got to figure out what they're looking for, and then that's what what we strive for.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the answer is no, we don't strive for natural all the time, per se.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: That being said, you know, I personally think kind of moving more towards that natural result actually is better because it sort of fits in with lifestyle and makes them look like they haven't been operated on.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: But some patients, this is definitely a G speak, but some patients really want that operated look.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And who are we to judge what they want or not want?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're just people that can help them achieve the goals that they want to achieve.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if it makes them happy and it's safe, then by all means we should do it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm I'm a stickler for uh being uh like correct in like when you say something and associate something, you define something, and like I will be honest, like I feel like we've been leading everybody astray and we're just following a trend.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: So like the trend now is to use the word to look natural, to be natural, to do all this stuff natural.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be honest, natural shit doesn't look the way it does.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: If something's natural, the breasts are gonna be they're gonna lose volume, they're gonna drop after having kids, the face is gonna lose volume, it's gonna drop, it's gonna develop right.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's so let's be honest, that is fundamentally not natural.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: What people are wanting is they want to look youthful, they want to look young, attractive, and they want to look like they're undetected not have had surgery.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Not natural.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's nothing natural about any of this stuff.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like a weird thing, but like it's just a it's a trend now, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's a truth it's like literally the trend in aesthetic surgery is just to use this word.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: But they may be like they they may be asking to feel natural, right?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And to be undetected to that that so what you're saying is they needed to define, and I think we're saying the same thing, but it's like they needed to define what natural means to them if they came in naturally natural.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's that's why I'm saying inherently the word is actually we're using it in an incorrect way.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's more of like a descriptive, like you want something that is gonna make you look and feel your best, and that people aren't gonna be able to tell that you had something done, right?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: And like, so that's that's kind of I think what people really want now.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's great.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that you know, a lot of what we do, because if you just said truly natural, and like some people don't want that, right?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: They have been devoid of let's just say upper pole volume of their breasts, and they just want to have full round breasts.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And to them, that is natural, you know.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: To others, it's like not having any wrinkles on their face is natural, and in truth, maybe that's not to others.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I just think that it's an interesting thing that uh it sort of depends on this patient.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't, it's it's really remarkable.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing I found is to be most powerful though is like trends.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like trends like push people to do stuff more than anything.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you what do you like right now?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's a trend that you've kind of picked up on that it's a little undercurrent that people are kind of following into?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: A big trend is breast segmentation above the muscle, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think everybody knows they don't want any of this animation deformity, they don't want to deal with the pectoralis muscle whatsoever, and they're like, I want to go on top of the muscle.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's a you know a pretty big trend.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Huge trend, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and is that the most natural result?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because they want natural.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of those patients.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: It actually, you know, is a little bit more natural result because I mean again, breast tissue isn't below the muscle, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so having your implant above the muscle is more natural, it acts like a normal breast.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I often feel when people come in wanting natural to me for breast surgery, is they want the feel to be natural.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they're looking for.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And also another natural concept or adjective too is that they don't some of them don't want the animation, which before never really was brought up.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: So over the muscle helps with that.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Negative, under the muscle, better taper, more quote, natural look versus over the muscle, a little bit more bound, you know a little bit more roundness in the upper pole.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like this kind of little diametrically opposing concepts with the two concepts where they both could potentially have a natural behavior.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: This just shows you again, it depends on the patient.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It goes back to my original thought.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: We uh really just gotta figure out what the patient wants and give them that look.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Another question.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, say for example, I have surgery and then my friend got a surgery, what if and mine was like successful and to my taste, and my my friend got one that she doesn't really like.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the same surgery, same, for example, breast augmentation diseases.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Why does mine look better than hers?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: You can't do the same surgery on two different people, typically, because there's fundamentally some different starting ground.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if you do the same breast dog on two different people, same exact volume, same exact implant, same exact approach, chances are there's gonna be some variability associated with that.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: One could be the patient's perception of it because you didn't actually deliver on what they really wanted because you just did whatever the other patient wanted.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Two, they're starting from a different place, their soft tissues are different.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and three, the patient really didn't even want that intervention.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is another going back to our kind of our core concepts that everybody has to have a different approach plan.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: It could be something nuanced, like it could just be a different profile device, it could be a larger device, it could be, you know, one size is different than the other one, or they needed a lift, etc.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: So you just because somebody has this and you show this, I want this, okay.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: But here's how you're gonna actually get this.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of it depends on the canvas that you're starting with, what you're working with.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a sculptor and you got marble or you have wood or you have something else, like they're all gonna turn out slightly different.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the same approach is not gonna always work to give you the same outcome.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think social media is ruining plastic surgery.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: This means filters, face tune, AI, unrealistic expectations, and then patients bringing in edited photos to consultations.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Social media, good or bad?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's good, but has its bad sides, especially in plastic surgery.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: What I would what I would say is listen, I the the good thing about it is that it is it's opening people's eyes uh into what can be um achieved and I think broadening our uh reach to patients um worldwide and in the US.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I like that about it, but I um I worry about what the um pressures are on people to look and behave and be and what kind of life they need to live, how they need to look and strive for, and not feel good just about who they are inherently.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's the scary part to of it to me.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I like the fact to your point that it allows what we do and our craft to be shown to a lot of people in a lot of ways, and people are have a better understanding of what plastic surgery is and what we can do.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's great.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think without a doubt, we need to put a ban on social media for kids.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of these other countries are doing it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: France, Australia, and the US needs to follow suit.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think we need to be a we we need to put a ban out there for kids.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think it is detrimental.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think kids need to go out and socialize and be kids and learn how to communicate with one another.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think they hide behind these these phones and their channels.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen kids like walk right past each other and not say hi, but then two seconds later they're texting each other and it's like, y'all were just together, right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're but you're not talking.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm gonna get on my soapbox, but I think they should ban it here in the US.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's great for plastic surgery as a whole.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you gotta watch out as with anything.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is AI taking over, are they manipulating images, are they creating false expectations?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you just gotta know, get that going into it, that everything you see out there is not real.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think a good analogy, I think I read in a book, but that everything that you see on social media, think about it as a movie, it's entertainment.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have that perspective going into it that it's entertainment, then you're okay, right?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not fact all the time.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to trust your sources as with anything.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Validate it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, going into the topic of environmental factors.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So in Miami and LA, I'm from Miami, so everyone there is perfect.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, they either work out a lot, got a lipo, got a BBL, did something to their body.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's around you like the entire time.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: How do you recommend people decipher whether it's a goal they want or just a fit into society and their environment?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, figuring out like when someone comes with a desire or a want, you know, you have to sift through kind of what what all that really means.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think the biggest thing for us is like, you know, we're just part of the puzzle.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why, you know, Bill and I are and and our entire organization are becoming more champions of just kind of generalized well-being and and wellness and longevity, because it's all one, you know, like plastic surgery, aesthetic surgery, skin removal surgery, skin tightening surgery, volume adding surgery.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: That is not gonna be the way that you're gonna get healthy, but it's part of the generalized approach on you know, you being your your personal best, you know, like so so like in those people in Miami, like they're also working out like crazy, they're probably eating really well, they're probably staying really active.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: More and more people are you know approaching their mindset and generalized overall mental health.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think all those things are equally as important.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd say the most important thing is is working on being happy and like experiencing joy on a daily basis.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm I'm big talk here because like I I'm always in a high stress situation and I like it can be difficult to be around my love for my loved ones because like you know, we're we're doing things, we're working, we're building, but I like that stress.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's part of the thing that keeps me going.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it like aesthetic surgery doesn't like fix you.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: It it's part of a generalized process to get to your best.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how do you view what we do in in aggregation with everything else?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just one component of your overall well-being.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've talked about that.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think plastic surgery has a role.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think proper nutrition, wellness, mental health, I think it's all part of ultimately what we do.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, are are there societal pressures to fit in?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter where where you're at, and you know, you can be in Miami, you can be in you know Europe, you can be here.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's pressures to fit in.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do people utilize plastic surgery to be able to do that?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and no, right?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: They probably do.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And is that a good thing?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, right?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes it is good to be a part of a community.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to fit in.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you need that community feeling.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Relationships, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're important.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Relationships are very, very, very important.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: But not to compete or compare, uh, I think that's when it gets to be too much and too and and and not appropriate.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we got to be careful with that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if it's done for the right reasons, um I think it's it's okay.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: But going back to children and their social media use, and then obviously when I was younger, I didn't look around and be like, oh, she has a breast augmentation, never thought of that.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: But on social media, it's a little easier to do that because they're talking about it.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: How would you approach younger patients with social media and if they're leaning towards more like this is I want to do this procedure because of social media, not because I feel like I need it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I think that's that if someone comes in, especially if they're very young and they're pursuing something from just a purely social media driven thing, uh, we would take a fair amount of pause to appro to handle and and take care of that patient.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Glad to see that patient, obviously with their parents if they're underage to make sure that there is someone actually consenting for them.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there are situations though where like, yes, we do intervene on someone early.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, someone has massive breasts, we need to do a breast reduction to relieve social ridicule or functional problems or ears that are sticking out really far, and the poor kids getting made fun of all the time, and they want to have this address, or you know, someone's who's like 16, fully grown, huge nose that is not in balance with their face and they want to take action.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think those are situations that make make some sense, but we still have to approach with caution and make sure that it's reasonable, it's gonna improve their overall well-being.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: But if someone wants to get like uh procedures in just because they saw it on social media and they don't know if they really want that, I think we gotta counsel that patient more and you know, think through it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta be very careful.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a slippery slope.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Super slippery.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think pay you know, social media right now is using you know, kids as and and and sort of this potential fear-mongering and societal pressures to sell products all the time.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you see it with skincare or hair products, and they're like, Oh, you a lot of kids we know have flawless skin.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: They do not need to be on any skincare.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So now, granted, you I know some some individuals have acne and you know potential issues that they need products for, but like most of them have flawless skin, they do not need to be on 10 different skincare products, so they're using this to make money, and so we gotta be careful what's out there and what's driving this.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And parents have to be careful too not to be pushing these ideas on their kids as well.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it could be the parents who just saying, Oh, your ears look funny, or they're kind of like ridiculing the the child instead of like, you know, supporting that.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: That happens, it happens more than you realize.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: And like part of it is like, you know, fitting into the social construct that you're within, you know, and there's plenty of cultures where like, you know, it's time to get your nose done, you know, and et cetera, or like, you know, you turn 18 or whatever and you get you get your boobs done.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, and again, I think those there's a lot of things where we could say, Well, I'm not gonna do that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's against my moral standard um or my moral compass.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And like, there are other situations where like, all right, well, let's identify why this is happening.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: What's the goal here?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is it real?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is there is it reasonable, is it rational?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And like again, this is where we go back to like everybody's unique.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: We don't judge, we look at everything, and at the end of the day, try to do the right thing, and obviously try to do the thing that's medical legally you know appropriate as well.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you because you I know you've taken care of these individuals just as I have, but there's patients that come in that actually need something.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned a couple of them, but like some women don't have one breast on one side and have a large breast on the other side.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: These asymmetries exist, and you know, it is also a functional problem, not just a necessarily.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: So first surgery Bill and I did together in training.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Bill leads me through a case where uh there's a young girl, she's under 18, um, but kind of have got has gone through puberty.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: She had a uh syndrome called Poland syndrome, so that means that she's got a fully formed breast on one side, but on the other side it's not.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, it doesn't matter if that that young lady is 16 or 35 or 40.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's a huge thing for anybody, but especially for a beautiful young female.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we did a pretty awesome procedure with Jim Thompson, did like the minimally invasive.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: We did a latissimus flab, which is a complex surgery that normally took an incision this long, but we did this endoscopic harvest.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, we did a a reconstruction for her and gave her a symmetry to the other side.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember we see see this young lady afterwards, just just joy, happy, you know, the sense of feeling complete and confident.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was a super young person, and and it was it was very important for her.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, there's there's situations where like, you know, what we do makes a massive impact, changes, uh, potentially changes a person's trajectory in life.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where social media can be good, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think if that patient went out and said, Oh my god, if you're suffering from this problem, you can get this fixed too, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there are ways a social media is good, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate you listening.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you like any of the the content, please subscribe, tell your friends, post it, share.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being a part of the best plastic surgery podcast out there today.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Always a pleasure to get to share uh our thoughts and uh concepts with you.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Got any ideas or criticisms?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Don't tell us.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kidding.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let us know, and we'd love to discuss them.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: More, more, more, more, Dr.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: K let's Dr.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: B.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Mark Johnson, hello.