Latest / The Animal Advocate / Outside Dogs and the Law: How Support Keeps Dogs Out of Shelters

Transcript

Outside Dogs and the Law: How Support Keeps Dogs Out of Shelters · The Animal Advocate

0:03
Welcome to the Animal Advocate, where we arm animal lovers
0:07
with the information and inspiration you need to become
0:10
effective advocates. I'm Penny Ellison. I've taught animal
0:14
law at the University of Pennsylvania since 2006.
0:17
If you've ever thought someone should do something about that,
0:21
I'm here to guide you on your journey to being
0:25
that someone. Now, on to today's topic.
0:30
Welcome, Cara and Caroline, to the Animal Advocate. Thank you.
0:34
Underdogs of Philly is kind of a unique organization. I know a lot of different
0:37
animal organizations with different kinds of missions, but yours is really unique.
0:41
So tell me how you got started and what your mission is. Thanks,
0:45
Penny. We're really happy to talk to you today. So the
0:48
Underdogs grew out of, like, this grassroots community
0:52
effort that had been taking place for several years in Philadelphia.
0:56
And Caroline and I noticed that as the need for
1:00
assistance and resources for pet owners grew in
1:03
Philadelphia, it made sense to us to really formalize this
1:07
mission and become a 501C so we can expand our
1:11
resources and our outreach. And we were also very inspired
1:15
by other organizations like Dog Aid out of Michigan, who
1:19
built this kind of work into something that's formalized and sustainable at
1:22
scale. So seeing this model exist inspired us to
1:26
build this mission into something legitimate and lasting in Philly. I guess I should tell
1:30
you a little bit about our mission. We partner with owners
1:34
in Philadelphia who primarily keep their dogs living outside,
1:38
which can be confusing to hear sometimes that dog
1:42
owners keep their dogs outside. So we partner with them to give them
1:45
resources and support in order to improve the quality of life for those dogs.
1:49
That's interesting, because a lot of animal advocates are really concerned about
1:53
dogs being left outside. I know I am. And they might object
1:57
to you facilitating keeping dogs outside
2:01
instead of somehow requiring them, as if you could do that
2:05
to bring them inside. So, Caroline, what's your experience been with that,
2:08
with the feedback you get from advocates about your work? Yeah,
2:12
absolutely. I mean, Kara and I, we get it. We understand
2:15
the criticism. It's really hard to see dogs living outside,
2:20
and even we still struggle with it when we're out doing the work. But the
2:23
question that we keep coming back to is, you know, what is the alternative if
2:27
we don't engage with these owners, if we don't build this relationship, the
2:31
dog is still outside. You know, legally. What these dog
2:35
owners are doing is within Pennsylvania state law. And then
2:38
the other thing that we consider is the city shelter is full.
2:42
We're very aware of how overpopulated Philadelphia is.
2:46
And if we are taking dogs from Yards or we are encouraging people to surrender
2:50
their dogs. We are only adding to the overpopulation problem that
2:54
already exists here. So how do you find out about
2:57
these dogs and what happens from the first time you knock
3:01
on the door and offer help? There's two primary
3:05
ways that we connect with owners. The first is through word of mouth
3:08
within the community. Right. So often we're already working with an owner
3:12
and their family member or neighbor, right. Oh, they need help
3:16
a few blocks away, or people just see us working out and about and say,
3:20
I need help. So that's actually the best way for us to
3:23
connect with owners because it's people reaching out
3:27
and asking for support, which then we are happy to give.
3:31
Which is interesting also, because I think there is an assumption that if
3:35
you keep your dog outside, you don't care about them. And if they're reaching out
3:38
for your help, they care. Yeah, absolutely. We know many
3:42
like full families because we are, you know,
3:45
integrated into, you know, multiple houses, you know, across
3:49
the their family. Another way that we often connect with owners is through
3:53
assistance report forms. And that can be harder because these are
3:57
either neighbors or people that, you know, see this,
4:01
you know, on our commute to work or whatever, and then we'll fill out a
4:04
form to ask for help. And this is harder because, number one, that,
4:08
you know, a neighbor might have a fuller picture of what's going on. Right. Because
4:12
they're there all the time. But somebody that might, you know, just walk by
4:16
to go to work or something like that might not actually see the full
4:20
picture of what's happening with that dog. They think that dog is outside all the
4:24
time, but they're not there at 8 o' clock at night or
4:27
in the rain or something like that. However, we do our best
4:31
to follow up with every owner from these forms that come in.
4:35
And it starts with a knock. Yeah. And that
4:39
first knock is everything. So this is where we see a lot of
4:42
people get it wrong. We are not there to judge. We are not there to
4:46
threaten. We don't enforce anything. And we make that really clear right
4:50
off the bat. We also usually lead with resources. So we always bring a
4:54
small bag of food or some cans of food. We bring straw in the
4:57
wintertime. And that's just an immediate signal like, we are here to help.
5:01
We are here to build a bridge. And like Kara kind
5:05
of mentioned, sometimes dog owners can be defensive. It could be that
5:08
they've had bad interactions in the past. Sometimes we go to a
5:12
house and humane law enforcement has already been there or maybe an angry
5:16
neighbor has come over and taken it into their own hands. And that doesn't really
5:20
set us up for success, but we just. We listen,
5:23
we ask about the dog, we ask about what's their name, how long have
5:27
you had her, what's her behavior like? And sometimes we're coming back
5:31
three, four, five times until the owner really trusts us and they reach
5:35
out on their own to us. Because you are filling that gap
5:38
where you mentioned some of these houses have had humane law
5:42
enforcement out there, which means probably their neighbors reported it first
5:45
as a potential cruelty case. The officer came out,
5:49
said, you know, it may not be ideal, but it doesn't violate the law.
5:53
And that's when you come in to say, well, how can we make the
5:56
situation better? Right, Absolutely.
6:00
Yeah. A lot of, you know, there's gaps in the law, if that makes
6:04
sense. What is legal might not actually be the
6:07
best solution. Right. So we can take a pause for a
6:11
second and talk about what the Pennsylvania law does require, which is that the,
6:15
you know, shelter is sufficient to preserve the dog's body heat.
6:19
So it doesn't have any specifics, although the city
6:22
code does, but that's a different story. It doesn't have any specifics around
6:26
what the shelter needs to be made of, what it needs to look like, whether
6:29
it needs to be raised off the ground, whether it needs a flap at the
6:32
entrance. I think we are both, for a change in the law
6:37
to get those specifics, because then it helps the people
6:40
know how to comply with the law. It helps the dogs because it really does
6:44
protect them better, and it helps law enforcement, because
6:47
a standard that's very vague, like preserve the dog's body heat,
6:51
that's very hard to enforce. Yeah, I think, like, that vagueness is
6:55
what, like, we identified as the gap there. A shelter
6:58
made of, you know, plywood is certainly in compliance. Right.
7:02
But is that insulated? Is it, you know,
7:06
breaking the wind? Is it old? And therefore gaps
7:10
wind can get in? And can we
7:14
provide a better shelter to help, like, really preserve that
7:17
body heat, other things? You know, I think a lot of people have a lot
7:21
of feelings in charge in the winter time. Right. In terms of, like, the insulation.
7:25
But I think, you know, especially these past summers and the heat waves that we've
7:29
been having, like, is there enough sun
7:33
shade cover to protect that dog from overheating in
7:36
the summertime? And even if you think about tethering laws. Right.
7:41
Yes. A dog on a tether that allows them to move around and have
7:44
access to shelter and food and water. Is legal.
7:48
But are there ways that we could fortify the yard or
7:51
erect a kennel, for example, to get that dog off chain
7:55
or tether? Even just swapping out a chain for a lightweight cable
7:59
can make it a world of a difference. These are not
8:02
perfect solutions, but they are iteratively
8:07
better improvements. And that dog definitely
8:11
wants you to do something rather than nothing, right? We hope.
8:14
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So you were talking about the
8:18
knock on the door and that you have to build trust. And sometimes it's going
8:21
to take several knocks on the door before you're in that backyard
8:25
seeing what the dog's condition really is. And you talked about
8:29
maybe shelter, maybe fortifying a fence. So tell me
8:32
all the things that you might offer to an owner to support
8:36
them in being a better dog parent.
8:39
Absolutely. So our program is pretty unique in the fact that
8:43
every owner and pet situation that we deal with
8:46
is unique. So, you know, we talked about the knock on the door and we
8:50
want to learn about the dogs in the family. Sometimes we do work with
8:54
owners who have multiple dogs in the yard, and if they invite us
8:57
into their home or backyard, we assess it. So what we look
9:01
at is what is their current shelter situation, how
9:05
can we improve it? We talk to them about resources. Are
9:09
they food insecure? Do they feel like they're able to feed their dog
9:12
appropriately? You know, twice a day? We do offer
9:16
if. If owners are willing to spay or new to their dog, we will bring
9:19
monthly food deliveries to them. So that is a unique service that we offer.
9:24
And then we talk to them about vet care. Are they up to date on
9:27
their vaccines? When is the last time they've been to the vet? Can we help
9:30
them get an appointment? And then we have some really unique
9:33
scenarios too. You know, we've had dogs in our program where the
9:37
dog has ended up at the house. You know, the young son didn't
9:41
want it anymore, and the father's taking care of it. And it's a young
9:44
adolescent pit bull with lots of energy. And so we've worked
9:48
with families to get training sessions so that they know how to manage their dog
9:52
and take it on walks. And, you know, it is not one size fits all.
9:55
But our overall mission is how do we improve each dog's life that we
9:59
get into contact with. And if I can elaborate on that, Caroline,
10:03
I think it also is trying to understand the
10:07
owners as well and what boundaries we have with our
10:10
finite resources to provide owners. So, for
10:14
example, in the winter time, we sometimes will see or interact with
10:18
backyard breeders. And I Will always say, do you need some straw? I will
10:21
give straw to anybody in the city. Right. I don't condone
10:25
breeding. I think it is bad. It is, will be, you know, a
10:29
moratorium on it. But you know, beforehand, like, no, I will give straw.
10:32
That straw is so cheap and can be so life saving for the dog. Right.
10:36
But I won't give anything more like Caroline mentioned, unless they agree to spay neuter
10:39
because they're breeding. Exactly like we won't give it. You know, then there are
10:43
some people that also refuse to spay neuter. But there's only one
10:47
dog. Right. So they're not in a breed. You know, there's no act like they're
10:50
not actively breeding, they're not trying to breed, they're not affecting anybody else.
10:54
They're not sending dogs to the shelter. Right, exactly. So it is not
10:58
a requirement to be spayed or neutered to be in our program. We will
11:02
vet that dog, we will provide a house, you know,
11:05
solutions, things like that. But we won't give free,
11:10
you know, the monthly food support to that owner. Right. That
11:13
we are reserving for owners that have, you know,
11:17
made that choice to spay neuter. Right. So there are
11:21
gradations of like how and what
11:24
we can give to the owners depending on their choices and their.
11:29
You're trying to incentivize them to spay neuter by providing
11:32
additional services if they're willing to do that. And what kind of
11:36
response have you gotten to that? I mean, are most people willing? We
11:39
say it's like a little bit of a mixed bag, similar to
11:43
what we do for that first knock. Talking about spay and neutering
11:47
is a constant for us. So it happens the first time we meet the
11:50
family. It happens every time we're back in the yard. And I
11:54
will say that we do get, you know, sometimes owners are immediately
11:58
interested. Maybe the barrier in the past was the cost or
12:02
they didn't have transportation to go do this. And sometimes it can
12:05
be, you know, just an opinion. I think something that people
12:09
in the animal advocacy space don't really realize is
12:13
that some people just didn't know people spayed and neutered their
12:16
dogs. They always had dogs growing up. Their
12:20
dogs always had puppies. And that is just what they think a dog
12:24
does. Like, we hear a lot, oh, I really want my dog to have a
12:27
family. And you know, we have a different picture of what it actually
12:31
looks like when a dog has puppies. And, and there's nowhere for those puppies to
12:34
go. There Used to be a pervasive myth that it was good
12:38
for the dog to have one litter. And I think there's some people that still
12:41
believe that. Absolutely. And so, you
12:45
know, we are so entwined in the animal advocacy world,
12:49
and we are so aware of the overpopulation, but the
12:53
average person in Philadelphia really might not know that, you know,
12:56
ACT is flooding with dogs at open intake. And
13:00
so we try to provide that education. We're really excited about the
13:04
moratorium that's going to go into effect this summer because it provides
13:07
us the ability to say, you know, it is so bad in the city right
13:11
now with how many dogs there are, we had to pass this bill to make
13:15
sure people weren't having puppies anymore. It's also, like, a
13:18
persistence and trust. Right. So, like, Sometimes it
13:22
takes 2, 3 years for an owner. You're not saying anything like that on the
13:26
first visit? No, I mean, like, we always offer it on the first visit. But
13:29
I always say. I say, hey, are you interested in spay neuter? And
13:33
I want to be. And I always followed up with it. I want to be
13:35
clear that your answer does not depend on whether you're in or out
13:39
of the program. So I always, like, try to set the stakes very low
13:43
at first to get an honest and ongoing
13:46
conversation going so that I can just see what their
13:50
views are and then hope to lead with some education. And then I think once
13:54
they start to realize that we're not some random
13:58
weirdos that are coming to their neighborhood. Right. They know who we are. They
14:01
call us when there's a problem. Then we ask, you know, we always
14:05
revisit it, and they're like, okay, fine, yeah, sure. You know, like, so it is
14:09
just a little war of attrition. And importantly,
14:13
Caroline, you said the barriers in the past. The barrier might be in lack of
14:16
awareness. The barrier might be an idea that this is not something that
14:20
I want from my dog. But the barriers are also real
14:24
in terms of cost and transportation. So if someone says yes to
14:28
you, you completely remove those barriers. You're like, it does not. No cost
14:31
to them. And you'll transport the dog. We do. And we even provide,
14:35
in certain circumstances, medical boarding if that's going to be
14:39
the best choice for the dog. So that's what we fundraise for,
14:42
and we get a lot of support from the community for it. But, yeah, we
14:46
want to remove every barrier there is to spay or neuter your dog in
14:49
Philadelphia. Yeah. That is a important wrinkle that
14:52
Caroline brought up about the medical Boarding if the dog is living outside,
14:57
especially for a spay, we can't just have that dog.
15:00
Right. And a lot of these owners don't have the ability
15:04
to follow up with daily medications or just check that there's no
15:08
infection and things like that. We have partnered with a wonderful boarding place,
15:11
Wagdays up in Fishtown, and they've been wonderful at taking
15:16
our dogs in for. For a few days after a spay or a
15:19
neuter in order just to, you know, make sure they're medically taken
15:23
care of before we can bring them home. That is
15:27
wonderful. Cause, you know, you're removing those barriers, but
15:30
you're also going right into their neighborhood and into their
15:34
home. Because I'm all about trying to make things like veterinary care
15:38
and pet pantries and things accessible so that people don't need to surrender
15:42
their animals. But. But you take it one step further and bring it, you know,
15:45
right into their home. And I just. I think that's amazing. I talk a lot
15:49
about sprinter van. I just want a sprinter van while I will drive around the
15:52
city and have, like, a mobile spay and a mobile, like,
15:55
you know, vet clinic out of my sprinter van. But that's my dream.
15:59
We have dreams. Dreams and aspirations of sprinter vans. Okay. Yes.
16:03
And what you need for that,
16:06
besides money, is partnerships, because, you know, it's hard to hire vets, and
16:10
it's hard to hire vet techs, and. But I, too, have a dream
16:14
that with pooled resources, you could put together something like
16:18
that. So that's. That's amazing. Are there people
16:22
that you end up having to rehome their pets or they want to rehome their
16:26
pet and you facilitate that? There are. It is not our goal.
16:29
We have been very firm in our stance from the
16:33
creation of underdogs that we are not a rescue. We want to be really
16:37
careful about that. There are so many fantastic rescues in
16:40
Philadelphia, and we do not need to be one of them. But in working with
16:44
other rescues, our goal is that if a dog does need to be
16:48
rehomed, that we are able to network with the rescues that
16:51
it might be appropriate that they go to so that they're not ending up in
16:55
the shelter. So we've had different scenarios, some of them more
16:58
urgent than others. We've had dogs that have developed a medical condition,
17:03
and the owner just does not have the capability to care for them,
17:07
and they willingly say, I'd like this dog to go to rescue and a
17:11
better life. And we are so happy to facilitate that. I think that
17:14
sometimes Happens when you educate people
17:18
about the type of care that's required and then they make their own
17:21
independent decision that this. I'm just not
17:25
up to doing that right now. And it would be better if the dog were
17:27
somewhere else. There's also a limit what our financial ability
17:31
is to support especially medically complex or chronic
17:35
cases. For example, I'm thinking about a dog in our program that was
17:38
attacked by another dog, right. And this required lots of
17:42
emergency care and high end surgery. And we had to go to the owner who
17:45
called us to tell us this happened. But we had to say to him, you
17:48
have to surrender this dog because, you know, we can't pay for this.
17:52
We're going to have to, you know, try to partner with a rescue or shelter,
17:56
right. To help this dog. And he very
18:00
willingly surrendered her so that she could get the care that she
18:03
needed. We also talked about when humane law enforcement is
18:07
called in, doesn't find a violation. So then maybe you come in as a next
18:11
step to try to just raise the standard. Does it
18:15
ever happen in the reverse where you get called
18:18
in person, doesn't really want your help,
18:22
and then it becomes a potential cruelty case.
18:26
So we have a great relationship with both act, which is the
18:29
city's open intake shelter, and the PSPCA where we made
18:33
sure, we introduced ourselves, we built a relationship, and so
18:37
we don't typically run into a situation where we are needing to
18:40
report any sort of abuse or neglect. Every house that we go to,
18:44
we take notes, we record what's going on. We want to make sure we're observing
18:48
the dog's body condition. I would say it's actually kind of the
18:52
first scenario you mentioned. The city's shelter has started to
18:55
hand out our flyers and we actually are getting an increased amount
18:59
of requests for help because they are going to the home and saying there's this
19:03
organization, they can help you out with vet care or a better dog
19:07
house. It's been really fantastic to see that for the most
19:10
part, the pet owners that we interact with want to do better by their
19:14
dog. So that sounds like you're directly preventing surrenders to the
19:18
city shelter. Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember one
19:22
case. This is one of my favorite dogs. The owners. This was a neighbor
19:25
of someone we'd been grained with for a really long time and obviously he referred
19:29
them, you know, to us. And the dog
19:33
actually lived inside but had chronic, chronic allergies. And he was just like,
19:36
I can't, you know, keep up with this. I can't afford it. I need help.
19:39
Surrendering this dog. And I was like, all right, let's take a pause. Let's see
19:43
if we can take him to a vet and like work things out and, you
19:46
know, maybe provide some, you know, salmon food instead of chicken food. Right.
19:50
And that's all it took. They didn't want to surrender the dog. They
19:54
loved this dog. They just needed some help navigating the
19:58
veterinary clinics, the medications. And we were
20:01
able to help them facilitate that and coordinate that. And
20:05
now that dogs looks great and still at home with the
20:09
family. Right. I also want to point out that this is to some of the
20:12
critics and, but also the reality that some dogs
20:16
cannot be rehomed. Some dogs are under
20:19
socialized, anxious. They would not do well in a
20:23
shelter setting. They would deteriorate. And some
20:26
dogs we do work with, you know, we provide resources and
20:30
support to the owner, but we cannot interact with the dog. So therefore that dog
20:33
would be unsafe to like, you know, adopt out to the public. And that's a
20:37
reality. So some dogs are potentially best in the
20:41
environment where they are outdoors. Right. So when we hear this, just
20:45
take them from the yard. Right. That sometimes is not a reality for every
20:48
dog. So we can be creative about the ways,
20:52
like insulated shelter, fencing panels, right. Providing
20:56
food, elevated beds, sunshades to protect them in the
20:59
summertime. We can be creative about how to improve the quality of their life
21:03
right where they are in their yard. And I completely
21:07
endorse the way you go about it. And you're, you're alluding to the
21:10
vigilante justice people on social media who always say,
21:14
just hop the fence and take them off the lead. And I, I
21:17
don't endorse that. I endorse your way of supporting people.
21:21
You've talked to me some about how you see the future and
21:25
that you might eventually become part of or partner
21:29
with a shelter to be able to provide
21:33
the kind of support you provide to more people and especially before they
21:37
reach the shelter. Because I know, I've learned over the years, shelters try to have
21:40
a help desk. At an open admission shelter, they usually have a help desk. And
21:44
if people come in to surrender, they'll say, is there anything that we can do
21:47
to help you keep your pet? And can we talk about pet food pantries?
21:51
Can we talk about behavior support? But I think the problem
21:55
is once that person is standing in the lobby saying, I'm ready to
21:58
surrender, they've sort of crossed a bridge that's very hard to get
22:02
them back over. You know, they've told their children that we're
22:05
getting rid of the dog, and it's just. It's so important to be able to
22:09
reach those people before they are standing in the lobby ready to
22:13
surrender. So you analogized it to sort of the way police
22:16
protection is evolving. So talk to me how you would see this evolving.
22:20
Sure, yeah. I mean, I would love to see the
22:24
minimal, like, meaningful standard for outdoor housing
22:28
be increased at the state level. Something that actually reflects what the dog
22:32
needs to be safe and healthy, not just, you know, technically alive. However,
22:36
and this is like my big however, I really
22:40
want to see those ordinances or laws and enforcement
22:43
partnered with resources. Right. Essentially, what we do would be
22:47
great to be partnered with the enforcement arm
22:51
to then have a more permanent understanding
22:54
and formalized task force, if
22:58
you will, to then follow up and figure out
23:02
how can we get these resources and support for the owners.
23:06
Well, I just want to add one thing that Kara and I believe so strongly,
23:10
which is that human welfare bleeds into animal
23:13
welfare. And we see it directly by being out in the communities
23:17
that are outside of our own neighborhoods meeting people who
23:20
you might not normally meet if you weren't out doing this kind of work. But,
23:24
you know, people in Philadelphia are struggling with their own
23:28
instabilities in their lives. You know, housing issues,
23:31
maybe jobs, healthcare. That bleeds
23:35
into the way that they're also able to care for their animals. It's so
23:38
interconnected, and we just really believe if we're able to stabilize
23:42
one part of this person's life, then hopefully we're out there creating a
23:46
better situation overall for them. Yeah. The incidence
23:50
of dog support and requests also
23:53
come a lot of times with requests for human
23:57
groceries and food, or. I know I've walked into houses that don't have
24:01
running water or they're heating houses with their ovens,
24:04
right? And I stand there and think, what can I do? Right? Like,
24:09
and it is hard for. For. I know, it is hard for me to
24:14
protect myself from burning out, right? And say, I can focus on this one thing,
24:18
right? Which is, you know, the dogs. And that still can have a rippling effect,
24:21
right? Where if they don't have to worry about getting that next bag
24:25
of dog food, then maybe they can focus on
24:29
some human necessities. So you're right. It's
24:33
important to have cruelty laws that are clear and enforceable and
24:36
enforced and. And that's one arm. But I think what you
24:40
do has to exist right alongside it, that community support of people
24:44
that want to comply but don't have the means. Because most of
24:48
the reasons that animals are either victims of cruelty, I think,
24:51
or surrendered to shelters are poverty related.
24:55
So if you can ensure that, help them nourish their dog, help them
24:59
get vet care for their dog. You also pointed out something important. I think
25:03
that all of the people on social media that just want
25:06
all these dogs to be seized, they think that solves the
25:10
problem. They don't know that the shelter is already full and there aren't a
25:14
line of people wanting to adopt a five year old pit bull that's never been
25:17
inside or trained. That dog is likely to have a worse
25:21
outcome at the shelter than you providing him with
25:24
shade and food and attention and medical care. So
25:28
I think what you do is great. Do you have any advice for people who
25:31
want to start a similar organization in another city? I think a lot
25:35
about, I mean, this is for people who want to start this another city or
25:38
just people that might be watching this online or, you know,
25:42
be confused about it and just try to take a step back and
25:46
have compassion. That does not mean we are condoning or we agree,
25:50
but have compassion for why
25:54
this is happening. You know, I think, Penny, you said it beautifully that most of
25:58
these dog owners are not cruel or neglectful. So
26:02
I don't think anything really gets done when judgment is, you
26:05
know, very forward. So as you approach community members
26:10
really trying to table that judgment and come out of a place of
26:13
curiosity and problem solving. Okay, what's
26:17
going on? What do you need for your dog? You know, if you come from
26:20
a place of curiosity as opposed to like you're this bad person for keeping this
26:24
dog outside, you might be very surprised about the
26:28
answers. I think all of us that have done this for a while
26:32
have become significantly less judgmental than when we started. I mean,
26:35
you see these situations that surprise you. You see, I probably
26:39
twice recently I see you see an emaciated dog and you think that person
26:43
is not feeding their dog and then it turns out they had a medical condition
26:46
that actually they were feeding them and they weren't putting on any weight. And we
26:50
just, we can't assume the worst of people. Yeah,
26:53
and I think there are barriers. The fact that we are here on
26:57
a podcast, this is a privilege to be able to be on this side of
27:00
the animal welfare barrier, to be the people that can provide resources and
27:04
support. Something that really sticks with me is a barrier that I like to tell
27:08
people that I, I never would have guessed, but a lot of the
27:12
housing here in Philadelphia are really old and
27:15
kind of dilapidated houses and one owner didn't have
27:19
stairs to his backyard. So it was just like a four foot drop. So every
27:22
time he needed to let his dogs in or, you know, take them out or
27:25
bring them in, we kind of have to drag them up the four, you know,
27:28
feet. And, you know, you wouldn't think that, like, just
27:32
stairs to the backyard would be this huge barrier,
27:36
right. To letting dogs in and out. And there's actually been two houses.
27:39
Right. Well, one recently as well, like, that did not have
27:43
stairs. And, you know, it sounds like a code violation. That sounds like a code
27:47
violation that somebody should have figured out. You know, that's what I'm saying. I feel
27:49
like Elle and I can get. But I don't want to be messing with
27:53
Philadelphia. L. And I. But it is the reality, though,
27:56
unfortunately, like I said, reality of these
28:00
houses in neighborhoods in Philadelphia. So how can we get
28:03
creative? Well, let's see if we can get some volunteers together, build some
28:07
steps to remove that boundary. Or are you looking for volunteers?
28:11
If you have a pickup truck. Yeah. If you have a pickup truck
28:15
and any carpentry skills, please, please apply. Yeah.
28:19
Wonderful. Any other thoughts you want to leave us with?
28:23
I would just say to add to your note about if you're interested in this
28:26
kind of work, how to get involved. If you're in Philadelphia, obviously, reach out
28:30
to underdogs. If you're not, look within your community
28:34
about what other organizations are already doing. So for
28:37
Kara and I, it's been so important to build bridges and relationships with
28:41
all the great organizations that already exist. We cannot do this
28:45
alone. We are working with vet partners, rescue partners, the
28:49
city shelter. We are working with social justice partners
28:52
as well. So we are so worried about people burning out, both
28:56
each other and our volunteers. And it's a lot to burden.
29:00
Reach out to people in your community and start working together. And
29:04
really, it just takes a whole village to, you know, try to make an impactful
29:07
difference, even if it's just like a. Not formal
29:11
group, but you see a neighbor that has a dog outside
29:15
knocking, introducing yourself and seeing how you can support them.
29:18
Right. A lot of these people might be elderly, too, so being
29:22
able to bring them some dog food or cat food.
29:25
Right. That might be one less latte a week
29:29
for you, but that might be a huge difference for that owner and
29:33
the dog. So you don't need to build a whole organization with multiple
29:37
dogs. You could just partner with your single neighbor too. That is such
29:41
great advice. I want to thank you both for not only for joining me, but
29:44
for all the work you do. It's really impressive, and it's really,
29:48
as I said, unique. And keep it up. Thank you so much for having us.
29:51
Penny. That's it for today.
29:55
The Animal Advocate Podcast is brought to you by the Animal
29:59
Advocacy Academy. You can find episodes in show
30:02
notes@animal advocacyacademy.com
30:06
along with a link to our Facebook and LinkedIn pages where we
30:09
discuss our podcasts, and we'd love to discuss your thoughts and
30:13
experiences there. If you're interested in learning more about
30:16
protecting animals, subscribe to the show so you get every
30:20
episode when it comes out. If you have any questions on
30:24
this or any other topic related to animal law, email
30:27
them to podcastnimaladvocacy
30:32
and we'll make sure to get them answered. We'll either email you back
30:35
or feature them in a future episode, or both.
30:39
And remember, compassion is great, but
30:42
compassionate action is infinitely better. Until
30:46
next week, Live with Compassion.