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What I've Learnt - Angela Ceberano · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the core values of Angela Soprano's successful agency, Flourish PR, are based on honesty and integrity.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Their mantra, Never Ever, Ever Give Up, seems to be an apt reflection of Angela herself.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Angela has represented some of the biggest celebrities and brands touring within Australia, such as Stephen Tyler, Mariah Carey, the Backstreet Boys, Celine Dion, John Mayer, Guy Sebastian, the Foo Fighters, our beautiful Olivia Newton John, Justin Timberlake, and of course John Farnum.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: But just to name a few.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Prior to opening Flourish PR, Angela was the national publicity manager at Sony Music Entertainment.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: At 28, she saw an opportunity to create a new school communications agency.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she works closely with her husband, Phil Soprano, Kate Soprano's brother, and talented professional musician and content producer, musical director and composer.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're connected on many fronts: work, family, and their passion for all things music.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Recently, they've been front and centre of an intimate, intense issue.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: When they decided to take public their determination to have a baby.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Their IVF battle has recently become a public one, other than their very intimate blog, My IVF Journey, which gives an amazing insight into the complex trials and tribulations of embarking on an IVF journey.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: They've also found themselves caught up in another unfortunate drama.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll get to that later.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Just briefly, disturbingly, an apparent Monash IVF bungal had Angela leaving Monash IVF in tears with a sense of betrayal as she tried desperately for a baby.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure she'll tell us all about it.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, but Angela's used to being strong, focused, and has had her challenges before.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, a few years ago, she basically ended up with inverted common entrepreneurs' disease.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's right.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Working herself to death.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually a condition now.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: She reflects, I ended up getting very, very sick and had a really bad case of pneumonia.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: My organs were starting to shut down.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I had to be on oxygen for quite some time.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: The surgeon that I saw explained that I had entrepreneurs' disease and said if you didn't come to the hospital today, you wouldn't be here tomorrow.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was that bad, I couldn't walk.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't talk.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to talk to Angela because we're going to discuss work-life balance, her IVF journey, and her very special relationship with Phil.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, her sister-in-law, the talented sister Kate, singer Kate Soprano.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, Angela, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, when you read it out like that, it's like, wow, I've done a lot, haven't I?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: You really have.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Go girl.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because you really have done an extraordinary amount of things, but also it just shows the kaleidoscope of what you juggle and all of the elements, which is what I want to chat to you about today.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe we'll start by talking about when you met Phil, because I think, you know, the fact Phil and the family are quite a great story.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you and I have touched on this briefly.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can tell our listeners a little bit about that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I met Phil.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was working at Sony Music at the time.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so my life was very chaotic and busy and working, you know, 24-7.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was a very demanding role and loved every second of it, but it was very demanding.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: I actually I didn't meet him through Sony.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: I met him at a gig and I was dating a drummer of another band at the time.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he was dating someone else in Melbourne.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing dodgy happened.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: When I start when I start to tell the story like that, everyone's like, oh, drama.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was absolutely nothing like that.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I remember um I was sitting in, I think, in the in the restaurant of this pub that he was playing in.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I was studying or something.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing a side course or whatever, and I was studying, and he came up to me, and I kind of knew who he was, and he was Phil Sabrano, he's a great music, blah blah blah, and he's very attractive.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I uh and he just came up out of nowhere and says, I'm not I'm not trying to crack onto you, and I don't want to bother you, but I just I was just seeing you over there.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to say, like, you look like a 1960s movie star.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, that's a nice thing to say to someone.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, thanks.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's lovely.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then whatever went bright red because I blush all the time and very shy, actually.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and then that was it, really.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then apparently he tells the story of I was helping my boyfriend at the time load out his drum kit at the end of the gig.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: And apparently Phil said saw this happen, and he he turned to his best mate and he said, One day I'm gonna marry a girl like that.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and then that was it.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was our encounter.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think it was maybe five years after that, the whole MySpace thing came about.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: You remember MySpace?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, we're going back a long time, but yes, we do.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was a really long time.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I um uh we had some mutual friends in common and he found me via MySpace and he sent me a you know a personal message, a DM.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what they were called back then.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh and he said, hello, movie star girl, question mark.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh my gosh, how did he remember my face from that long ago?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we just got talking.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so because I was I was in Sydney, I'm Sydney girl, and he was in Melbourne, our relationship kind of started online, I guess, essentially over six months um before we actually went on our official first date.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so we got to know each other really well just by you know MSN and emails and MSN.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know, so funny.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then like our like our relationship progressed as technology did.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: So then we went to Skype and we did some video calls, and that was very exciting.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then he would send me books and I'd send him albums and we'd just talk about our love for music and reading and whatever.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I really got to know him very, very well on a very deep kind of level before we went on our first date.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then we went up when we did eventually go on our first date.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was in Melbourne, I was on tour, I think, doing PR for John Mayer, I think, at the time.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um lucky you, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna say lucky you, but yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like seriously, like we can talk after.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: He was an interesting one.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then uh lots of stories there.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, I had one night off, and I said, Look, I've got one night off, that's all I have.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I probably should probably be working or sleeping or something, but let's let's do this.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like we've been talking for so long, let's go on the date.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: We went on this first date, and it was the most perfect date you could ever imagine.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then we literally got engaged, like I think three months after that.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was it happened very quickly.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a beautiful story.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I do think, do you believe in serendipity that if that he really once you were in his mind's eye, and Phil seems somebody who's not a knee-jerk sort of person, like he he would, you know, you just stayed in that mind frame for him, and he was gonna find you, track you down.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I yeah, I do believe in that.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I there was a special spark or something when we met.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: I just remember you meet a lot of people, you know, but he really stuck in my head too, because I just remember he had this very kind vibe and aura around him, you know, he's a very giving, much like Kate, that's very much a Soprano trait, I think.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: They're very um, you know, they walk into the room and they really do own it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone looks at them because they just have this beautiful presence around them and that beautiful big, you know, smile.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a Hawaiian thing, it's that aloka thing that they all have, and they're just beautiful people.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, he definitely stuck in my mind too.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, we came together.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was single, he was single, and it was on.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it certainly was and it still is.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Tommy, so um, you reflected when we spoke briefly earlier about when you first were introduced to the Soprano clan, and that is such a great reflection.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think you can give our listeners a little insight into that?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: That the first family dinner of sorts.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the first family dinner.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I think Phil and I had only been dating a couple of weeks because we moved very quickly.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he's like, I want you to meet my family.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, All right, let's do this.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I went over to Kate's house.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: She did, she put on one of her beautiful roast dinners that she often does for the fam and big long table.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: There's it's a big family.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And the moment I walked in, uh, Phil's mum greeted me at the kitchen bench and she had just pulled this massive big roast lamb out of the oven and she was about to start carving it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she she was like, Oh, good, you're here.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: You can you can carve the lamb up.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I was like, how old was I?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe 23 or something at the time and carved up a roast lamb.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was my dad's role in our household.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, never touched the lamb, like you know, he did the carving.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so that freaked me out.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so all of a sudden I was like, oh no, what's what am I getting myself into here?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and I think actually before that, the first thing she said to me was like, Oh, you're very white, aren't you?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like such a random, but such a my mother-in-law thing is that um, I love it, and and you were very, you know, you're very, you know, you've got that Grace Kelly sort of feel about you.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's something, and of course, that that that's referencing to what obviously Phil saw when, you know, the the 60s retro, you know, he said you were like a beautiful old movie star.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I get it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I'll just look like a deer in the headlights.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then beautiful Kate, you know, she's so warm and and could see what was happening.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought she probably thought, oh mum, like don't don't do this to the poor girl.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so Kate kind of rescued me.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh no, you don't need to carve.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like Lee, Kate's husband, you can carve and sit down, like let's have a chat, you know.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so she was really warm and welcoming, and you know, and it's funny with Phil's mom because she kind of looks like me, you know, she's blonde hair, blue eyes.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: She's also very white.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: So um, she has a very funny kind of sense of humor.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we all have a laugh about it now.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love that story.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's so cool, and it's so it's very much, and as you talked about, you know, the way that Kate just swept in and went, come with me, I'll look after you under my wing.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got very big, big, warm wings.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So from there, obviously, you became part of the Soprano family, and and it's a big, beautiful family.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about how working with Phil, because you two work very closely together.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I love, you know, when you do your vlogs in the car, like we're off to work today.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the way that you, you know, there's an authenticity and an honesty about the way that you communicate.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's quite, you know, Phil's often driving and you're you're also looking like very beautiful and gorgeous.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And Phil's really just like centered and like, yeah, we're doing this.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a bit about how that works, because that's quite intense.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't always worked together.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when we first got together, like I said, I was working at Sony, my hours were crazy.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Phil was on the road a lot traveling, you know, he's obviously been Kate's guitarist for many, many years.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then when he stopped doing that, he was with James Rain for a long time and doing his own gigs as well.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, he's his calendar is always booked with with gigs.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's been a, you know, a full-time musician his whole life.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: He's never really had an office job ever.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it was interesting because probably about five years into having flourished, my PR agency, you know, I'd come home with different campaign ideas and say, oh, we've got this client, we need to come up with a creative concept about X, Y, and Z.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he would just come to life.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: He'd be like, what about this?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: What about this idea?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: But what if we looked at it like this?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, who is this person?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because Bill's not natural, he's not trained or professionally trained as a marketing guy or communications guy or whatever.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: So he comes at it like from a completely different mindset and his ideas are fresh.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: And again, like, you know, he walks into a room and our clients love him because he's the fun guy, you know.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really interesting, you know, we kind of play good cop, bad cop, or whatever in meetings or whatever, and we're we're polar opposites, you know.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: He's very centered, he is very calm, and you know, I definitely have a sense of urgency about me.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is has to happen now.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: I do have a little bit of anxiety.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Most good PR people do.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so goes to the chest.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I'm always looking to the future of like, okay, where are we going next?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: What are we doing next?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And Phil is he lives his whole life in the moment, and I think that's been such a beautiful dynamic for us as a working relationship where he can just be like, just take this in.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is amazing.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're literally, you know, having the whole day with Olivia Newton John and organizing all her, like, take these moments in, or you've just raised this much money for this amazing charity, or you've just launched a global brand, like take it in.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas I just don't do that.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always like, right, what's next?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: How's the public going to perceive this?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: What is our next move?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so he's been amazing uh to bring into the business.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, he knows a lot of people in Melbourne as well.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: So he kind of does, you know, new business sort of development, but also does a lot of our creative stuff and producing, if we're doing content, you know, is an excellent producer and he brings out the best in talent.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, we do drive to work, you know, most days together when we're allowed to be in the office.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: I will say though, what I do think has saved us during COVID working from home is that he has his studio at the front of the house and my office is at the back of the house.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we are fairly separated.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then also in the office, my office is a three-level warehouse.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: I sit at the top and he sits at the bottom.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we are kind of like there's a bit of space between us, and you know, we'll have lunch together or whatever, and it's great.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we do, we're not in each other's pockets all day, every day, even though it probably looks like we are.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also the other thing is, you know, it's interesting because you really honor his intuition and you allow that to flourish, you know, using the the obviously, but it is true.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think what you're saying is the ability to honor each other's space as well and to to see each other's extreme, you've got differences that are quite, you know, you're there would be yin and yang, which's probably why you work so well.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: But the ability to honor each other's differences is quite important in marriage and that, and certainly when you're working together.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if I'm he's the one person in the office that can pull me aside and be like, you're being ridiculous, like you need to stop, you know, and you don't often get that as you know, running a business.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's some staff will do it if you've got great staff, they'll they'll have those honest conversations, but a lot of the time I haven't had that, you know, because I the feedback I get is you're very intimidating.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'm like, really?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I am, but you know, I I can see how people could um could come up with that if they took little snippets of the things that I do.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I think um, yeah, Phil's definitely the one person that can be like, you need to stop, like, you know, get up, go and have a walk and come back.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're being ridiculous.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's great to have someone that really does have your back.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that it's like we're we are we are a team, it's not my business, it's our business.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the business wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for him and his involvement.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it sounds like you both you both bring pretty important skills to to the table.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and as I said, you complement each other, which is amazing.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you find that um, I mean, what do you think you bring to him?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like how do you, what is it that you offer?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is there because you clearly have uh well, you tell me, what do you think?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a good question.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: At our wedding, he told everyone that he's spent his whole life living in the moment.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the thing that I fell in love with because I really struggle with that, but he he is so joyful throughout the day.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: But he said to Renette at a wedding, you know, um, when you meet someone and you can actually see a future and you can plan for the future, then that's a whole different thing.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think like that opposite attracts thing, you know.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think I bring a sense of, you know, future planning, or I bring a sense of we can dream together, you know, because I've got the I've got the schedule and I can break it down into little bits and bulbs and I can actually go, okay, where do you want to be in five years?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do we want to do?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Where do you want?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, I've never even thought about this sort of stuff.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, well, we're gonna, we're gonna just like craft this ultimate life and let's make this happen together, you know.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, I think I give him um, yeah, I don't know, you'd have to ask him a roadmap, a little bit of a roadmap because I mean I'm very like you.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think exactly like you're describing.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it resonates with me.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it's always a you know a female thing, but it's like we need a roadmap, whatever that roadmap is.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's quite a good thing.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit that roadless travel, that whole I think so, yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, he always says, like I he goes, I don't know where it'd be without you, you know.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I say the same to him because yeah, we've just we we we always say he pulls me down into the real world because you know, a lot of the time I'm living up in the in the skies and dreaming quite high.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: He pulls me down into the real world and I pull him up into the real world.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a nice balance, I think.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's so beautiful.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just on that front, when you and I spoke recently, obviously we touched on some of the challenges that you've been experiencing recently and talk about teamwork and working as a team.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: You guys have really had to unite on this very personal, private, and intimate journey.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: But the way that you've done it, sharing these beautiful uh vlogs, but also just just talk me through a little bit about the challenge you've had on the IVF journey and how you chose to deal with it in the public sphere prior to the Monash IVF issue, which we which you can also talk to.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: So Phil and I started um trying for a family, I'd probably say like four years ago now.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we it was something that we spoke about on that very first day, you know, that perfect first date, that we both wanted children.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: That was a very big goal for us.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, both of us wanted a family.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so then life got busy, you know, like he was on the road, he was he was traveling and um cheering around, and and I was, you know, starting the business, and that took more time than I ever thought it would.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we just got busy, and then all of a sudden we turn around.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, whoa, I'm 35.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we've got to really like the clock is ticking now.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: We need to make something.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: If we if we want this to happen, it's got to be now.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we started that process when I was 35.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we got pregnant very quickly, which was great.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, well, that was easy.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was wonderful.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yay.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then it just didn't stick around for very long, you know.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a miscarriage quite early on that first trimester, and that was devastating because I didn't really know anyone that had gone through a miscarriage.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: We certainly didn't talk about it if I knew people that had that happened to.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so finding resources on the internet or, you know, found myself going to YouTube a lot, trying to just, you know, I don't know, resources of like what are other people going through?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: What do they feel?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: How soon did it take for them to get pregnant after this?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is this normal what I'm feeling?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And how do I support my husband through this as well?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not just me, it's him, but he's trying to look after me.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: But how do I look after him?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just a conversation that wasn't being had is still very taboo.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then, you know, had a few more mishaps and it just wasn't happening.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so we were like, okay, let's go and see a doctor about this because you know, that clock is ticking in the back of your head the whole time.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we went and saw a doctor at Monash IVF, and yeah, we started the process.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, you go into IVF.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, I certainly went into IVF being quite naive.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think both Phil and I were naive to it because again, like we didn't know anyone that had gone through that.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't a conversation I was having in any of my sort of you know friendship circles, or didn't know much about it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought, great, we'll do IVF.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's going to be really easy.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: We'll do like one cycle, set and forget, we'll be pregnant.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't quite work out that way.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so now after you know went to Monash, there were some issues with Monash, um, we left there, we did three cycles there, and then we've ended up going to another um fertility um specialist, Dr.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Lynn Bernmeister at fertility, at number one fertility, and they are they are just amazing.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: I just can't speak highly enough of them.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so we did another uh eight cycles with them, and I'm just about to start another one with them.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we've done quite a lot of cycles.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a lot out of you.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um unfortunately, we just haven't been successful yet.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been a long and emotional and very challenging time, I think, over the last two years because we've been trying to navigate COVID and the pandemic and trying to keep the business afloat at the same time.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Phil's got no gigs.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we really have focused everything into flourish and making sure that, you know, our team are really well looked after and they're supported because they're all going through their own stuff as well during this, and then trying to navigate, you know, business stuff and also IVF at the same time.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably been the most stressful two years of our life ever.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: We're still here, we're still standing.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: We play that Elton John song all the time.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still supporting it.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Angela, that's really interesting too, because first of all, just you know, listening to you, first of all, miscarriages are obviously very common and people are talking about a lot more now, but it it was something people didn't talk about.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's something that at least, you know, you've been part of that conversation and you've opened it up for others.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then the IVF journey, and obviously there was a lot of the Monash issue, um, which you know, I'm not sure that, you know, there was so much in the media about it.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you and Phil came out publicly talking about the fact that you felt things had been handled badly.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, there were a whole lot of people who felt that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's interesting though is you seem very adaptable, you you seem to have the ability to go, well, that's not working.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going, we're going to find you found Lynn Burmeister, who's very well known and very well regarded.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's your reflection on that period of time?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think going public assisted others?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your mission to sort of say, let's have this conversation about how hard this is?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we wanted to have that conversation because it really was frustrating me that there wasn't a lot of resources out there.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: There are on YouTube a lot of Americans that tell their story and share their experience, but I didn't feel like there was a lot of Australians.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: And our protocols with IVF are very different to America.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it was hard to relate to a lot of the resources that I was viewing from like the US or the UK.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've, you know, had a YouTube channel for the last, I don't know, eight, nine years.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's something that I just sort of dabbled in to really understand that space mostly for our clients.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big believer that you have to be a practitioner of your craft.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um and so started creating content and doing vlogs when no one was was doing videos back in the day.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've always lived a life that we've have shared a lot, you know, a lot of our life um with our followers.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so it it felt wrong to not share this big part of our life.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: It it was all consuming.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I did want to help have that conversation.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted people just talk about it, you know, uh one in four will have a miscarriage.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very high statistic that's 25% of people that are trying to have a baby and will end in a miscarriage.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's very common.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's also a lot of people that are going through IVF but they choose not to share their experience and that's totally understandable because it is very it is a very private thing to have to go through.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people choose that but for us we just wanted to shed a light on it you know I think it's going to become more common over the next you know decade where women are starting to have babies a lot later in life because we have more work opportunities now.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah we wanted to help other people to just not feel as alone as we did in those first you know I don't know first year of going through IVF and we've had hundreds and hundreds of messages every month from people that we've helped you know and I've sent a lot of people to go and see Dr.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Lynn at number one and they've been so thankful for that.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: So if I can help one person out there, you know, then I feel like it's worthwhile sharing.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So Angela just just uh reflecting on you know going public and how you've had the YouTube channel which you communicate about various aspects of your life just uh reflect to me about how this particular IVF journey was important for you to reflect on that YouTube channel.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean when you're going through IVF it is such a massive part of your life it is awe consuming you know you're injecting every morning, every night you're thinking about it constantly your moods at moods are changing on the hour, every hour.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it just didn't feel right for us to not share it, you know, since we had shared so much of our life by YouTube anyway.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so we felt like it was important to share this story because so many people go through it alone and there's not a lot of Australian resources out there.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: And our protocols are very different to you know the UK and the US there's a lot of YouTubers and content creators that are doing um you know things overseas and sharing their story.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I found in Australia it's a topic that people don't share, you know, and and it's very personal but I've we just felt like it was the right thing to do.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: And if we could help one other person out there feel less alone then it felt like it was worthwhile.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we've had so many messages from people saying thank you so much for sharing I feel less alone and they would ask us questions about our experience and how we felt and is this normal and so it's been lovely actually we've connected with so many different people that are going through it have made so many friends through this community of IVF warriors and so that's been really really lovely.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably been the most positive thing to come out of it and we've sent a lot of people to go and see Dr.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Lynn Bernmeister our doctor that we're seeing because we really do think she is the best in the country and she's so caring and her team are extraordinary.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: What what are the lessons that you have learned on this journey what do you think you know you could advise somebody going through it or what what particularly have you learned?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've learned patience.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's I'm not a very patient person.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in everything now and and I'm in control of every other aspect of my life you know I am a bit of a self-confessed control freak and I like things to be in neat little packages and you know in their place.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so this has been a very big learning for me that I just I have to let go.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I cannot control this process.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter how much research on Google I do it's not going to change the situation.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: The best thing that you can do when you're going through IVF is to everyone says it and it drives everyone nuts is just relax.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's been that's been a difficult learning of just letting go and and letting you know the doctors and the amazing team that you have around you, you got to put your trust in them, you know, and and trust is something that yeah I find difficult because I'm not in control.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know I like to do everything myself and in my business I can control everything.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah the you can't do that with IVF.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: You really have to let it go.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I think for me understanding that you're not in control you got to you hand over the power to someone else put the trust and faith in the people that are doing this you know day in, day out, patience has been a big thing because you do go into IVF thinking oh it's one cycle and we'll be done and we'll be pregnant in nine months this is amazing.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not like that.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I speak to so many people that think that they'll be done with one cycle and you know 11 cycles in we're still going and that's that's a lot.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we've also learned just to be stronger together and how we both deal with stress and upset.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Phil goes very quiet and that's hard for me because I'm a talker and I like to you know I want to know what he's thinking and feeling and what's our next steps.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want to talk about everything and he wants to be quiet and still and be grounded, you know and so that's been interesting learning how we both react to pretty upsetting news.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've come to get to know each other on a totally different level, which I'm really grateful for because I don't know I don't feel like for people that go through pregnancy naturally with no complications, I kind of in a weird way I sort of feel grateful for having this experience because Phil and I have never been closer and we just we really understand each other on a level that you would never normally get to know someone if you didn't have to go through this.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it it's been a very interesting learning process I think for both of us.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well I think it's it as you say like this sort of stress can bring people together or it can tear them apart.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it's you've shown incredible unity in the way that you've you've approached it and that's evident just from talking to you but also from what I've read and what I've seen that you've made a yeah it sort of like you're in a on a pact like we were we're gonna we're gonna do this you know and what what do you put that down to do you think you're both quite resilient people anyway individually yeah I think so I think Phil and I have both sort of run our own race you know we always talk about we always feel like we've been the outsider our whole life and I think that's where Phil and I bond a lot um in our early years we're like yeah that's how I've always felt I've never felt in with a group anywhere um you know like at school I was you know I was sort of on the I was kind of just doing my own thing like I had friends but I didn't really feel like I ever really really connected with them you know I was always out doing my own thing whether it be work experience or going to shows and and doing my own projects I never really felt like I connected in anywhere and then being part of a large business I didn't feel like I belonged there either.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I started my own business you're it's very lonely when you have your own business you know you can't be friends with his staff and you I always have felt on the outside and similarly with Phil like he's always felt like he's on the outside too you know like he's always been that sort of support crew I guess for his sister or um any bands he's been in you know he's never taken drugs in his life so he's never been part of that kind of I don't know culture you know um and so he's always felt on the outer of that and I think both of us have felt yeah like we're on the outer and that does make you a very resilient person I think and it makes you strong and you're like oh well it's gonna do things my way and so I think we have that about ourselves and it certainly has yeah it's it's shown us it shone a light I think on on those qualities that we both had during this time.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's been yeah it's been pretty interesting.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well you've become each other's sanctuary which at the end of the day you know as I as I always reflect I mean that's where if you've got to become home and know that's your sanctuary even if you're going through something difficult.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest most people I speak to um are going through something and it's just a question of how you respond to that and what you've shown is that you and Phil it's actually brought you closer.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a credit to both of you.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's also interesting um what did you learn from the Sony experience and working with some of these extraordinary talents and also pretty big egos I have no doubt that you you know you've had to navigate.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just tell me a little bit maybe an anecdote about one or two that were great and I suppose without probably mentioning names some that were a bit challenging or what they asked for or what was the what was the biggest challenge when you're working at Sony?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh I it was like a military service working at Sony I think I learnt so much.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: I would not have the business that I have today.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't have as much hustle as I do today if it wasn't for my time at Sony.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that was amazing all the time there were certain periods and it's reported a lot in the media there's a class action against Sony music at the moment I am not part of yes yes I'm not part of that I don't want to be part of that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes but there you know because I am very I'm torn on that because I'm very grateful for a lot of the lessons that I learned.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: I learned how to be strong I learned to have a backbone I learned how to say no I went into that that business as a 19 year old I started at BMG and then we merged with Sony and became Sony music and um I was a shy little I don't know like just 19 year olds like 19 year old gig though amazing that you got that oh amazing yeah I started making people cups of tea and doing you know the paper art and you know being taking people's names at doors of different gigs or whatever and I really did work my way up and I became the national publicity manager there when I was 23.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a lot of responsibility from a very young age.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so like that was an extraordinary experience and it was hard.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was hard work.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: You would work 18 hour days and you would probably still be asked well that's not enough.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you were a young 19 year old with an extraordinary opportunity and then you became the publicity head of publicity at 23 is that a publicity manager?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah national publicity manager which meant that I got to uh work with our domestic artists and also our international artists.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: So pulling together their publicity schedule and looking at their strategy of how we were going to get their albums to basically the number one position.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: That was always a goal for every artist that we represented.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so very interesting you know publicity schedules um junkets taking media to see shows all over the world very yeah an incredible job and working with some extraordinary names.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it was like a military service in a lot of ways I started so young and you know when you start that young I was so shy and had no idea about anything really other than the fact that I love music and I wanted to work in this industry.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I grew very quickly I grew up very quickly and I in a lot of ways I felt like I grew up at Sony.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: They taught me a lot they taught me how to hustle and they taught me you know how to have a backbone.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: I never had a backbone before and how to be resilient and put up with some large egos and large demands.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a very interesting time.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so could you tell me who was one of your favourites that you worked with?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh hands down Dave Grohl from the Foo Fighters he was my absolute favourite uh he's just such an awesome human and he was just such a pleasure to work with I did a couple of different tours with him and he just made every day so much fun and complete professional and um just a PR dream to work with he was he was wonderful.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Actually he's just done that stint on the morning wars with Jennifer Anderson I just saw that actually and he was really cool on that I thought I was very impressed they had the Foo Fighters on that show.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it's very cool.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: That was such a shock to see them come up that was so awesome it was such a treat um he was great he's you know he'd have everyone back in his hotel room he was very inclusive he just makes everyone feel very special he's just one of those he's a bit like Phil actually Phil has that trait about him as well you know he has that presence and he walks in a room and everyone just he's like a magnet everyone just goes towards him and he's so fun um and just amazing in interviews incredible showman and yeah that was that was my favorite to look and um I I do have to ask you about John Mayer who I we're all a little obsessed with but I get that he looks broody and moody.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: So is that right?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Look he was my favorite too before I started working with him and then he did not become my favorite after that let me just say that the bubble has burst but like it was upsetting for me because I was such a fan you know he was he was such a oh what a brilliant musician he is you know his songs are incredible and those lyrics but wow yeah he's an intense person and um yeah he was my biggest challenge I would say I think that's very diplomatic I don't want to get sued by John Mayer but yeah he was uh he was challenging but you know uh at the end of the day he's a great musician and writes incredible songs and he can be however he wants I guess you know when he's when he's doing exactly you know it's it's interesting that actual journey of the the inverted commas the pop star or the you know and the fandom and the you know it's very that it's a bit almost famous you know that famous movie which I'm sure you'd be aware of but that that whole notion did it did it demystify a lot of that for you did you find it unraveled a bit were you like sort of in the it's like being in the you know in the back seat and seeing everything.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean that stuff happens you know like it it was I remember doing a tour with Guns N'Roses and that was that blew my mind because that was like being in a movie and I was like is this real?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Do people really really does this happen?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it does it does happen.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: It is crazy it's you know drug, sex, rock and roll, it's all happening.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I really thought that that was just you know a story and a narrative that the industry tells but it's it's I saw that to be true for for a lot of the big bands that sort of came out um and it was a different time you know we're going back 15 years now you know things are very different now.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of things that they would not get away with these days and that's a good thing.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: It makes the industry much more professional and the industry is going through a time of change and I support that time of change because there were things that happened back in the day that weren't you know weren't great, weren't appropriate.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: But that's all we knew back then, you know that's just kind of how it was and my generation put up with that and it's really refreshing to see a new wave of talent and a new wave of a new generation coming through that's like nah we don't put up with that because they've grown up with the Me Too campaigns, you know, and we never had that when I was sort of starting out.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's great.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Change is good.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: So on that note obviously um reflecting on the Four Corners program last week which exposed Dennis Hanlon and a lot of the managerial infrastructure if you like the enablers which it's extraordinary to me that it went on for nearly 30 years.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: This sort of culture of bullying and sexism and abuse of power and it really was quite it was interesting because it did it was an expose but I think we still there's still a lot to be told and a lot to be seen but clearly to this week they stripped him of many of his like his lifetime achievement reward.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: And what's your what's your sense do you think this is like just the change that had to happen and how how do you see this in in in the context of what you were reflecting on before about history?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I think the only constant is change and I'm a big supporter of change because things can only get better.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I support the change.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm torn with this and I get asked this a lot um because I I spent 10 years of my life there Dennis was my boss for a decade of my life and it was the first job that I ever had.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: So for me that was just how professional life was I thought that's just how the real world operated and it wasn't until I got out that I was like oh hmm most people don't work 18 hour days or most people have weekends or most people aren't addicted to their laptop and obsessed with every you know minute of their day with consumed with work.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought that was the real world you know it was like well you're not at school anymore you're not at university this is just how things operate.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Dennis was very good to me.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: I did not experience any of the bullying personally I certainly witnessed some things that I was like whoa it's a lot but he was never like that to me and Dennis taught me a lot a lot about business and a lot about relationships and you know he's a very hard worker and he's he was incredible of getting results you know you knew if you were signed to Sony that you would probably end up with a top five record because he expected nothing.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know you weren't the worst thing about you know working or you know being at Sony I remember there was a saying like the only the worst thing is having a number six album because it meant that you weren't in the top five or the worst thing was about having a number 11 album because you weren't in the top 10.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: For any artist that's got a number 10 or 11 album is phenomenal but that was not our reality and it wasn't our world.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: If it wasn't number one then you had some answers.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: You had to answer some pretty hard questions.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me because I was so young I just I didn't know any better.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought you know and it did make me a very good publicist because I would never ever ever give up and that is you know one of our mottos at we at Flourish that we don't give up and I and I do owe that to Sony that he taught me how to never ever give up.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: But then I also saw some other things that were like yeah that's that's not cool.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's not how you treat people in a boardroom you know grown men to tears that sort of thing but I never personally experienced that.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's really hard for me to talk about it because yeah I'm torn because one thing like I learned so much and he he was a mentor of mine for a long time and then you hear all these other stories and sure I saw things of course you know but I was so young that I just thought that's how it was and it probably how what it was back then we just don't expect we just don't accept that these days.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so do you think the culture's changing and seeing you know you're when you're working with um clients now or when you hear about and you know obviously you're very close to many people in the music industry and feel these two you know you're very across it and certainly you've seen what Kate's her journey what she's been through which has been extraordinary and she's such a you know a beacon of how to really have a journey that is authentic and that you own and that she's really not somebody who will just you know kowtow to anyone.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think the future for the next generation of female performers and for males is going to be easier or is it is the road going to be just as hard, just a different one?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we've also obviously got all of the um incredible streaming resources now which have its own issues because clearly about getting funds through to the to the artist that's a real issue as well.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it also does open up the platform.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it means that anyone can pretty much jump on Instagram Spotify Apple Pod or Apple and out they go.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they'll be monetized or not is another issue.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah I think I think it's really exciting for the industry you know I think um I think it's super exciting and once tours come back that's gonna be great um for for so many artists and bands out there you know I think I think the platform it's we're gonna attract so much more talent now because I know that people you know would hear horror stories about the music industry and be like well I'm not gonna work there you know and you would miss out on incredible talent you know um and I think for performers yeah I think there were some dodgy things that went back back on like when it happened during the day you know AR there's so many stories from you know the AR days of how women would get a record deal you know I think those days are over thank god that women don't have to sell themselves in that sort of way you know and I saw that happen firsthand only 15 20 years ago like it's it's gross and so I think um I think I think change is great I think it's exciting and um I think I think it's much I think the future's really bright.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's just going to be this this period of people going oh like what can I say what can I do?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then you worry that you know you can't express yourself properly.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: But you know as long as you're doing the right thing and being kind and being good to people then I don't know I think it's exciting for so many people.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I actually do agree with you and I mean obviously the people that I interview in the music industry a lot are hopeful once we come out of pandemic and and tour come touring comes back for you what are some of what what do you see up ahead in terms of is there a particular do you think the festival scene's gonna crank crank up again um I know John Stevens and all of the crew they're all like literally chomping at the bit there's literally I'm getting every every day I'm getting tour announce tour announce Lucy Higgins this one this one you know like it's fabulous so exciting.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: So exciting absolutely I think festivals are gonna just like go off their nut because and outdoor festivals you know because it's a little bit safer and there's more distance I think people are going to embrace music because music has been one of the things that has got us through this whole pandemic you know music and and and movies you know whenever I'm it's the arts you know and the arts has suffered so much and has hardly had any kind of support yet it's always the artists that if there's a bushfire or there's a benefit gig that someone needs to put on you know it's always the artists that stand up and go hey I'll help I'll I'll do a show I'll I'll do a gig whatever you need so you really do feel that it's going to the chores are going to come back the festivals the outdoor festivals I totally agree because it is safer there's still limits obviously from your perspective in terms of when you're at the moment now
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Working towards your schedule, which I'm sure is quite challenging trying to move forward with all of these, whether it's brands or artists or your clients.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: How are you navigating that?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and is that something that you know you're finding quite challenging?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're finding it very challenging at the moment because every day the protocols are changing.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got so many um tours on, you know, that are just waiting to be announced and waiting to be launched.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we've um we've got so many clients in the arts division that are ready to rock, but you know, that those announcements just keep getting pushed back and pushed back because there's uncertainty of like what happens and then what happens when international borders open?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is everyone just is it gonna be like a mass exodus?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like is everyone just gonna get out of here?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so all those questions are being asked, and we don't have, you know, we don't have that crystal ball.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know exactly what's gonna happen.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think the one thing during the pandemic is this that I've realized is we've never actually really known.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's never been any certainty for anything could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't plan for that, you know, and I think that's one thing that I've held on to and has helped me in business, but also personally going, well, we were never actually in control.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: We just thought we were, but we actually weren't.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: We couldn't predict what was going to happen in February or March next year, you know, like we could probably go, oh, there's probably gonna be some bushfires, like looking at statistics or whatever, but we never really actually knew.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so clients are having to be um, yeah, just really flexible, you know, and we it's it's hard for us at the moment because we have to have multiple scenarios.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a scenario for X and Y and Z.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so basically our workload has tripled because we have to be working in lots of different scenarios.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we wait for the government to let us know what we can and can't do, and we roll out a plan accordingly.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's very similar when I interviewed Bruce Kebert, you know, we're talking about the events at every level.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same, it's the frustration.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: However, is there anything that you'd like to let us know, a little sneaky peek that's coming up that we should be excited about?
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm really excited, um, especially for a lot of small businesses.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, small businesses is where my heart goes to.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've grown up in a small business family.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my dad always had businesses.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want to help promote uh a lot more small businesses.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think next year, I think there will be a lot of people resigning from their jobs and taking, you know, the time to say, like, well, what's important?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I've just had two years of time to reflect on what I want for my future.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the pandemic has taught us that, you know, if you're not happy, now's the time to get happy because God knows what's around the corner.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think there's a lot of people that are going to be starting their own businesses and finally like following their own dream, which I'm so excited for.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so we are creating Flourish Your Way, uh, which is um uh online platform to teach people how to create their own PR and how to create buzz and hype when you are launching a new product or a service.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so we'll launch that next year.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's a whole curriculum of um of learnings that I and Phil have learned over the last sort of 20 years in PR and you know, pretty much teaching someone what I do for a high-end celebrity or what do we do for a very well-known global brand from a PR point of view and giving them all the tools and resources so they can go and do that themselves and roll it out, especially if they can't afford, you know, a large agency like Flourish with big retainers.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I'm really excited about that.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that sounds great.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're absolutely right.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are people completely recalibrating and changing the way that they look at their own lives and the journey that they want to go on.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited that you've come on this one with me and we've had a great chat.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I could talk to you for like another hour.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're very much, you know, I think you've got a really great energy, and I think that you give that to your world, you know, and to and that's really special.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd like to thank you for joining me on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, thank you so much for having me.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I could talk for yeah, another hour with you as well.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have to go and have a coffee and do that, I think.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is a definite 150%.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'll look forward to that in the real world.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: You take care.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Bye, Angela.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Love death.