Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Giles Martin, Part 1

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Giles Martin, Part 1 · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Giles Martin may be the son of famed Beatles
0:22
Speaker 1: record producer Sir George Martin, but he's also an acclaimed
0:25
Speaker 1: record producer and composer and his own right. He's won
0:29
Speaker 1: multiple Grammys and an Emmy for his work across TV,
0:32
Speaker 1: music and film. He's worked on projects with The Rolling Stones,
0:36
Speaker 1: Elton John and Metallica, and is celebrated for his work
0:41
Speaker 1: remastering albums from the Beatles, including Sergeant Pepper's Abbey Road
0:45
Speaker 1: and The White Album. Last October, giles remaster for Revolver
0:50
Speaker 1: was released, along with never before heard home demos and
0:54
Speaker 1: outtakes from the Beatles. Giles was able to separate the
0:57
Speaker 1: original nineteen sixty six mono recording tracks with the help
1:01
Speaker 1: of director Peter Jackson's audio team, who used AI technology.
1:06
Speaker 1: Giles's resulting mix allows listeners to hear with clarity in
1:09
Speaker 1: precision their original recordings like never before. On today's episode,
1:14
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin talks to Giles Martin about his approach to
1:17
Speaker 1: remastering the Beatles and the responsibility that comes along with it.
1:21
Speaker 1: Giles also talks about growing up in the music industry
1:24
Speaker 1: and how he became his dad's ears and studio sessions
1:27
Speaker 1: when his father lost his hearing. This is broken record
1:34
Speaker 1: liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's
1:37
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin in conversation with Giles Martin from Shangri La.
1:41
Speaker 1: Tell me growing up in the house that you grew
1:46
Speaker 1: up in. We didn't have talked about this before, so
1:48
Speaker 1: this is interesting. What's it like growing up in such
1:51
Speaker 1: a musical household? Let's start like that. Well, it's really hard.
1:55
Speaker 1: Like people said to me, what's what was it like
1:57
Speaker 1: growing ving George Martin as a as a father, and
2:00
Speaker 1: you go, I never had a different father. I never
2:02
Speaker 1: had different dads, So I don't know, but it was.
2:04
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what the difference is.
2:06
Speaker 1: And this is what I try and encourage my kids
2:08
Speaker 1: and other people with kids. It's like music wasn't something
2:12
Speaker 1: that was distant from me. Like playing an instrument wasn't
2:15
Speaker 1: something that was a stranger too, because my dad was
2:17
Speaker 1: sitting for the piano. When I was about four years old.
2:20
Speaker 1: They said in my playgroup, what is your dad doing?
2:23
Speaker 1: People come, my dad's a lawyer, my dad's or whatever
2:24
Speaker 1: it is, and I'd say, my dad just sits home
2:27
Speaker 1: and plays the piano, and I think he was running
2:29
Speaker 1: the music for the Live and Let Die the Bond
2:30
Speaker 1: film at that time. I think that's that was If
2:32
Speaker 1: I look at the era, it was around about ninety
2:33
Speaker 1: seventy four, So music was natural thing. What's interesting The
2:38
Speaker 1: Beatles didn't it really exist to my household. It was
2:41
Speaker 1: not that they were banned from the house. I mean
2:42
Speaker 1: we had a copy of Abbey Road and that was it.
2:44
Speaker 1: I think, really yeah, I did because it was something
2:47
Speaker 1: he did. I understood. And you know, you've always been
2:49
Speaker 1: progressive in your life. You can always bring your work
2:51
Speaker 1: life home. Yeah, but it's also it's what you did,
2:54
Speaker 1: what you're interesting about, what you're doing or what you're
2:56
Speaker 1: going to do. And that's what people don't realize. Was
3:00
Speaker 1: your dad home a lot? Or was he at studio daily? Like?
3:02
Speaker 1: Tell me what what were days like? It's hard to
3:06
Speaker 1: a long time ago. Yeah, but yeah, no, he he
3:09
Speaker 1: was pretty good. He always said that he wasn't around enough.
3:12
Speaker 1: It was interesting. I had a nanny. I had a
3:14
Speaker 1: male nanny who was There was a band, a seventies
3:17
Speaker 1: band called Stackridge he worked with, and the drummer from
3:20
Speaker 1: Stackridge was unhappy being the drummer and Stackridge and became
3:24
Speaker 1: looked after us kids. So I had a drummers as
3:26
Speaker 1: a nanny, and my dad would be at the studios,
3:29
Speaker 1: but I would go and see him. I mean he
3:31
Speaker 1: was at a place for air studios which is in
3:32
Speaker 1: Oxford Street. It's where Nike Town is now if it's
3:34
Speaker 1: in London, they got Oxford Circus Nike Town as well,
3:37
Speaker 1: and it was the top of that building. And I
3:39
Speaker 1: remember as a kid he had two officers. He had
3:41
Speaker 1: one he was part of Chrysalas Records at the time
3:44
Speaker 1: and that was his that was obviously a record company,
3:46
Speaker 1: and I just found that really boring. I was going
3:48
Speaker 1: to see him there. And the other was the studios,
3:50
Speaker 1: which one would have an elevator to quite high up,
3:53
Speaker 1: probably the fourth floor as far as you know us
3:55
Speaker 1: Britz goes, which is really high up for us. And
3:58
Speaker 1: there were corridors and there was long corridor. At the
4:00
Speaker 1: end of the corridor was a hot chocolate machine and
4:02
Speaker 1: it was free. But on the doors which corridor, there
4:06
Speaker 1: were rooms where things would happen. There were runs where
4:08
Speaker 1: they would be musicians and speakers and noise and I
4:12
Speaker 1: could sense even then as like a four or five
4:14
Speaker 1: year old or six year old, or I could sense
4:16
Speaker 1: that this was different from an office. This was different,
4:19
Speaker 1: This had a different feel to it. It was perfect
4:21
Speaker 1: natural for me to be in that environment because I
4:24
Speaker 1: didn't know any different. What would be the music playing
4:27
Speaker 1: in your household other than your dad playing piano. Well,
4:30
Speaker 1: here's the here's the thing. We didn't have a stereo
4:34
Speaker 1: system in our house because my mum didn't like speakers.
4:38
Speaker 1: My dad used to didn't like the way they looked
4:41
Speaker 1: with the way they sounded or the way they looked
4:43
Speaker 1: where they looked. We did eventually get get a high
4:45
Speaker 1: fi so me and my sister had had a record
4:48
Speaker 1: player and we would listen to and we would get records.
4:52
Speaker 1: We weren't I don't think we were terribly spoiled children.
4:54
Speaker 1: We get record quite offen. Records we got were records
4:56
Speaker 1: from my dad or labels and stuff like that, and
4:59
Speaker 1: they would be very I remember, like we used to
5:02
Speaker 1: listen like even the Quietest Moments by Supertramp, which is
5:05
Speaker 1: an album that came out and as Peter Henderson was
5:07
Speaker 1: the engineer, like who we knew? Or there was like
5:11
Speaker 1: a Carol King album called Chicken Soup and something like that.
5:14
Speaker 1: I alays thought Carol King was this sort of New
5:16
Speaker 1: England housewife that made things. That I worked with her
5:18
Speaker 1: and met her, I realized that she's more like doctor Ruth.
5:20
Speaker 1: Funny enough, it's a character. She's brilliant. Carrol Kings, She's
5:23
Speaker 1: found like the sort of this hot wire. There were
5:26
Speaker 1: there were so there were these records that you know,
5:28
Speaker 1: I was worried. We had a stand Gets album because
5:30
Speaker 1: he was he worked with Stan Getz, and so we
5:31
Speaker 1: had these albums that my dad had made and the
5:33
Speaker 1: Maravisional Orchestra for example, Jeff Beck, blow by Blow. These
5:37
Speaker 1: albums that they were. They were the albums because they
5:39
Speaker 1: were free. And then obviously as kids, you you end
5:41
Speaker 1: up buying you know, Bowie records. And I remember I
5:44
Speaker 1: had Transformed. I was obsessed by Transformer by lou Reid,
5:47
Speaker 1: you know, for instance, away these records. But I remember
5:50
Speaker 1: my dad. My buid the memory with my dad's sitting
5:52
Speaker 1: outside a house in the car and listening to the
5:55
Speaker 1: work he was doing because we didn't have a stereo
5:58
Speaker 1: at home in our living room as it were. So
6:01
Speaker 1: many people do listen to music in the car. It's
6:03
Speaker 1: not a bad place to listen to music. No, it's
6:05
Speaker 1: good as you know, you and I both was a
6:06
Speaker 1: good place to check mix. It absolutely felt less so
6:08
Speaker 1: now funny because cars now do stuff to audio that
6:11
Speaker 1: we don't want them to do. But yeah, usually you
6:13
Speaker 1: can turn it off though, yeah yeah, yeah, but it's
6:16
Speaker 1: like a second. You know, audio has become more sophisticated
6:20
Speaker 1: at the same time, less sophisticate in a way, and
6:22
Speaker 1: technology companies decide to do things to our music that
6:25
Speaker 1: maybe we don't do them to do. They just want
6:27
Speaker 1: to go. I want to listen to card because I
6:28
Speaker 1: want to listen to what it sounds like. Simply. That's
6:31
Speaker 1: it's an interesting thing to talk about. I know that
6:33
Speaker 1: that was a big when the Beatles catalog was streamed,
6:39
Speaker 1: when they decided to stream for the first time. Yeah,
6:42
Speaker 1: you were involved in the way that was handled and
6:45
Speaker 1: it was different than the way most other maybe all
6:48
Speaker 1: of their music was streamed. Tell me about that. You know,
6:53
Speaker 1: I never planned on being involved with the Beatles, you know,
6:55
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a singer, songwriter, guitar player, and
6:58
Speaker 1: circumstances happened that you know, nepotis and roles or you know,
7:01
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and so I have been ever since
7:04
Speaker 1: the Love Project, which I did in fifteen years ago,
7:07
Speaker 1: sixteen years ago, been involved in that, and the streaming
7:10
Speaker 1: thing came up, and I just I have this view.
7:14
Speaker 1: I'm a bit like the kid in Mary Poppins that
7:17
Speaker 1: that wants to feed the birds and not go to
7:19
Speaker 1: the bank. I think music should be available to people.
7:21
Speaker 1: And the Beatles was held off streaming, maybe because of quality,
7:25
Speaker 1: but probably more so because they're thinking about, Okay, how
7:27
Speaker 1: do we sell box sets and how do we I'm
7:29
Speaker 1: getting there's kids that have no idea what this music
7:32
Speaker 1: is because they're not buying records, and we have to
7:34
Speaker 1: accept that. That's a you know, it's it's it's neither
7:37
Speaker 1: good or bad, it's just it is. You know, people go,
7:40
Speaker 1: people don't listen to albums anymore. Well, we can't judge hoppy,
7:43
Speaker 1: but you want to make things available to people. That's
7:45
Speaker 1: what I believe. So when the Beatles went on streaming,
7:48
Speaker 1: I just said, I use the power that there's like
7:50
Speaker 1: a bullying power with the Beatles saying Okay, if you
7:53
Speaker 1: want to be on streaming, let's make sure the quality
7:54
Speaker 1: is as good as it can be. And I don't
7:56
Speaker 1: believe in that thing where people go, you can't you know,
8:00
Speaker 1: artists go, you can't enjoy music because it's not good,
8:03
Speaker 1: good quality. I listened to cassette cassettes that were cassettes
8:07
Speaker 1: with my my thing. I'd like to be cool as
8:09
Speaker 1: I had vinyl, but I was a generation at cassettes.
8:11
Speaker 1: I had a cassette, not even a workman, like a
8:14
Speaker 1: really bad player with those orange headphones that only did
8:17
Speaker 1: fast forward and didn't rewind, you know, and have to
8:19
Speaker 1: turn over the tape to get That's what I had,
8:21
Speaker 1: and it came with free speakers. Two little speakers came
8:23
Speaker 1: in the same box. But I listened to records on
8:27
Speaker 1: that which I fell in love with. They sounded like
8:30
Speaker 1: to me, it was like I didn't need anything else.
8:32
Speaker 1: Our mind fills in the blanks. We can fill in
8:34
Speaker 1: the spaces that are there. But you might as well
8:37
Speaker 1: make things if they can be good, make things as
8:39
Speaker 1: good as they can be. That's what we do in studios.
8:41
Speaker 1: So with the Beatles, I went to Spotify, I went
8:44
Speaker 1: to Apple, I went to whoever would take me and said,
8:46
Speaker 1: how do we make the system better? How do we
8:48
Speaker 1: get rid of normalization which compresses music? How do we
8:52
Speaker 1: make sure the codecs are good, and so I've been working.
8:54
Speaker 1: I started working on that with them. Let's talk about
8:57
Speaker 1: what you found out about the way the standards were
9:00
Speaker 1: done that you wanted to override, because again it's interesting
9:05
Speaker 1: and nobody knows. It's only know it because you told
9:06
Speaker 1: me about it. There's this thing called normally nation where
9:09
Speaker 1: everything needs to be the same level. It's like life.
9:12
Speaker 1: If everything in life is the same level, you're not
9:14
Speaker 1: You're anither happy. You're neither happy or sad. I want
9:17
Speaker 1: to feel stuff I don't want to. You know, I
9:19
Speaker 1: maybe very English, you know if I sound English, I know,
9:23
Speaker 1: but I'm emotional. I care about stuff deeply, and I
9:26
Speaker 1: get I cry about things. It's the same with music.
9:29
Speaker 1: That's when music to be. We want it to be.
9:31
Speaker 1: We don't want it to be the same level. We
9:33
Speaker 1: want it to be surprising. And I went to go
9:36
Speaker 1: and see Spotify and Sweden and we talked about the
9:39
Speaker 1: process of imbibing music, how they take the music and
9:42
Speaker 1: how they put it out and making sure this doesn't happen.
9:45
Speaker 1: And they agreed. They and what's interesting what people there's
9:47
Speaker 1: the thing in the music industry where the artists and
9:50
Speaker 1: the Listener's not the question about how the asser dealt
9:53
Speaker 1: with But there's the thing about people perceive that these
9:55
Speaker 1: companies don't care, but they do care about it. They
9:57
Speaker 1: really do. You know, in my experience, they have teams
10:01
Speaker 1: and they just they want to know how to make
10:03
Speaker 1: it better, opposed to going we don't care about it.
10:06
Speaker 1: And that's what I found. So with Apple, they were
10:08
Speaker 1: developing new code. They came to see me when they
10:11
Speaker 1: did their master for I Tunes thing. And because because
10:14
Speaker 1: the way I grew up being my dad's ears because
10:16
Speaker 1: he went deaf, and you know, I was, I was
10:18
Speaker 1: in students listening for a long time, and I knew
10:20
Speaker 1: what one killer sounded like, maybe at two early in age.
10:23
Speaker 1: And I remember saying, I met a guy who was
10:25
Speaker 1: head of Corodo Apple and we did a listening test
10:28
Speaker 1: down at Bob clear Mountain's place in Santa Monica and
10:33
Speaker 1: they played me a remaster of something. I think it
10:36
Speaker 1: was a Dawn Life or something, and I just said,
10:37
Speaker 1: I'm hearing a weird compression at like four hundred hurts
10:41
Speaker 1: and I'm also hearing this leveling out a nine killer hurts.
10:45
Speaker 1: And they looked at me like I was some pretentious,
10:49
Speaker 1: which is fair enough. And I can only say what
10:52
Speaker 1: I'm hearing. And then this guy Bill Stuart William Stewart,
10:54
Speaker 1: who was the head of He said to me much later,
10:56
Speaker 1: he goes, the weird thing is we just thought you
10:58
Speaker 1: were mad. But I said, you know, to the team,
11:00
Speaker 1: we should and he goes, we found, we found it.
11:03
Speaker 1: We found what you were talking about. We found And
11:05
Speaker 1: I went, well, okay, I I don't know, Bill, but
11:09
Speaker 1: but I mean, I can only tell you what I hear.
11:11
Speaker 1: But the great thing about that is then they engaged.
11:13
Speaker 1: And then they said, okay, how do we make things better?
11:15
Speaker 1: How can we and I get seen. I mean, two
11:17
Speaker 1: years ago someone came to see me from a company.
11:20
Speaker 1: I said, it's completely transparent and slee enough for them.
11:23
Speaker 1: He had an ab situation and I won't tell you
11:26
Speaker 1: what stream of service it was. And I said, no,
11:28
Speaker 1: that's I'm hearing. I'm hearing some number seven killer hurts.
11:31
Speaker 1: That's not And he said, but people can't tell a difference,
11:35
Speaker 1: and I said, no, if I walked into a room
11:37
Speaker 1: and you played to me, I wouldn't tell a difference.
11:39
Speaker 1: That's the thing. That's a difference. But if you're get
11:42
Speaker 1: it right, but if you know, but now you I've
11:44
Speaker 1: got a button. I mean I can hear what's going on,
11:46
Speaker 1: of course, but that's not the let's get it right.
11:48
Speaker 1: And so I find that within that world the people
11:51
Speaker 1: want to engage and it's just making sure that getting
11:54
Speaker 1: rid of all of the bs around it. And there's
11:57
Speaker 1: the thing that I, you know, I get attacked for occasionally.
12:00
Speaker 1: I have a pretty good run of stuff. But you know,
12:03
Speaker 1: like about compressional limiting, people have been compressing limiting records
12:07
Speaker 1: since records were recorded. The nature of recording there, that's
12:10
Speaker 1: what happened. I mean, my dad flew over to Capitol
12:14
Speaker 1: in LA because the Americans were so much louder than
12:16
Speaker 1: the English and they still are socially, No, they loud.
12:20
Speaker 1: There's so much loud than the English. And he went
12:21
Speaker 1: to the Comely, Come fly Me sessions with Frank Snatcher.
12:24
Speaker 1: There's my dad. No one ever knew he was there.
12:26
Speaker 1: He was young and wet pioneers to see how they
12:29
Speaker 1: were doing, see how the Americans could be loud, because
12:31
Speaker 1: in those days everything was listening to on a on
12:34
Speaker 1: a turntable, and the American records would come on the
12:37
Speaker 1: radio and they'd be loud than the English ones, and
12:38
Speaker 1: they wouldn't know that. E M. I want to know why. Yeah,
12:41
Speaker 1: I'm accused of there's this whole loudness warm of debate. Course.
12:45
Speaker 1: And I always wanted my things to sound loud because
12:49
Speaker 1: I want them to be like the Beatles. Like the
12:51
Speaker 1: Beatles were always louder than everybody else. But you always
12:53
Speaker 1: made records just sounded beautiful. I mean, and always that
12:57
Speaker 1: was my That's my goal, and they always will do it.
13:00
Speaker 1: Like you know, people want to listen to records because
13:02
Speaker 1: they doesn't matter what it is, they just and it's funny.
13:07
Speaker 1: I went to get these. A guy for this team
13:09
Speaker 1: of high fi experts came to see me. This is
13:11
Speaker 1: down at Abbeurador while back, and they serted they had
13:14
Speaker 1: this conversation with me and I said, you know, records
13:16
Speaker 1: have been compressed for a long time. And I said,
13:20
Speaker 1: I try, and I try and not make you know,
13:22
Speaker 1: I try and have dynamics. And we talked about the
13:24
Speaker 1: field and stuff like that in a record. I said,
13:26
Speaker 1: but really it's really only from like nineteen seventy two
13:30
Speaker 1: to Night's and eighty that there was this sort of
13:32
Speaker 1: less compression. I like, you know, and I said, so, so,
13:35
Speaker 1: if you're trying to sell me your high fis, what
13:37
Speaker 1: would you play when they went so Sultan's or Swinging
13:39
Speaker 1: by Dire Straits. So I was like, Okay, I think
13:41
Speaker 1: it's nineteen seventy seven they went Ducks at the Moon
13:43
Speaker 1: by Pink Floating, Okay, seventy four seventy three. I went, so,
13:47
Speaker 1: your theory is that the only music worth listening to
13:50
Speaker 1: us from this like sixty or seventy eight period of time,
13:53
Speaker 1: and give us how crazy that is. Yeah, we have
13:57
Speaker 1: to take a quick break and then we'll be back
13:59
Speaker 1: with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin. We're back
14:05
Speaker 1: with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin, who's talking
14:08
Speaker 1: about how the streaming services built in technology affects the
14:12
Speaker 1: sound of the Beatles catalog. Tell me about the normalization
14:16
Speaker 1: process that they were doing. Was it a compression or
14:19
Speaker 1: was it matching levels? It was matching levels, but it
14:22
Speaker 1: has to be done. The problem is with all of
14:25
Speaker 1: this is that I don't think it was done on
14:27
Speaker 1: the input stage, so it feels the input it was.
14:30
Speaker 1: Actually when you make something loud quieter, there's a way
14:34
Speaker 1: to do it where you're retaining all of the information,
14:37
Speaker 1: and there's a way to do it where you're actually
14:39
Speaker 1: removing information, yes, removing resolution to get it quieter exactly.
14:45
Speaker 1: So that's what was going on. So there was a
14:48
Speaker 1: digital compression happening in order to make the track the
14:53
Speaker 1: right level. Yeah, And there's that becomes a sound to it, yes,
14:59
Speaker 1: And there becomes a sound that's then accepted. Yes. And
15:02
Speaker 1: it's a very difficult thing to to negate. And it's
15:05
Speaker 1: it's really here's here's the thing. And I can sit
15:08
Speaker 1: in now as like as now just turned fifty three
15:11
Speaker 1: year old man and go that's the reason why records
15:16
Speaker 1: don't last as long. But the same point is that
15:19
Speaker 1: you know, when Revolve was made, they didn't plan on
15:23
Speaker 1: it lasting very long. No, that's the thing you just
15:25
Speaker 1: go us. So there's a there's a there's a there's
15:28
Speaker 1: a tangible sort of inner turmoil that goes on in
15:30
Speaker 1: this in us, in us on our mountaintops judging this thing.
15:34
Speaker 1: But the only thing I would say, and the only
15:36
Speaker 1: thing that that I think is is really important, is
15:39
Speaker 1: that as time goes on, technology is a wonderful thing.
15:44
Speaker 1: That's the thing people think it is, and technology is
15:46
Speaker 1: is you can be in a situation. You know, even
15:50
Speaker 1: with spatial audio, even with that, you can bring someone
15:54
Speaker 1: closer to the artist. You can you can have that directness.
15:58
Speaker 1: You know, you and I are talking now, we're talking
16:00
Speaker 1: good microphones and have this conversation. But it's not the
16:02
Speaker 1: same as someone being in a room with us. And
16:05
Speaker 1: so we or much better people than us that make
16:09
Speaker 1: records now, you know, will be in a situation where
16:11
Speaker 1: they can they can create something and as it should
16:15
Speaker 1: be as close as to what they want someone to hear.
16:18
Speaker 1: You know, with technology, with everything going on, what's happened
16:21
Speaker 1: is it? With is sometimes we move further away from
16:24
Speaker 1: that because of the way it's being delivered and the
16:26
Speaker 1: way it's being done, and because of presumptions by technology
16:30
Speaker 1: companies that that's the right thing to do. Yes, And
16:32
Speaker 1: so you know, I get I get given keys to
16:35
Speaker 1: things like I'm now ahead of audience staff for UMG.
16:38
Speaker 1: So one of my roles is to look at this
16:39
Speaker 1: stuff and go, okay, there's a universal music group for anyone,
16:43
Speaker 1: but to go, okay, how do we how do we
16:45
Speaker 1: create this transparency? You know, there's no agenda here, there's
16:48
Speaker 1: no like and I'm not trying to sell more records.
16:50
Speaker 1: I'm not My role is purely how do we create
16:52
Speaker 1: this transfers of preservation. It's a preservation. It's also preservation
16:56
Speaker 1: looking forward as well. It's not just a question of
16:58
Speaker 1: me doing what I do with old records. It's like,
17:01
Speaker 1: I'm more interesting what you know people are doing with
17:04
Speaker 1: their records and go okay, you need to make sure,
17:06
Speaker 1: like you know, music, music used to flow out of us, yes,
17:09
Speaker 1: all flout of artists and and be in a stream,
17:12
Speaker 1: and now it's in a waterfallest like there's cascading collapsing waterfalls.
17:16
Speaker 1: Everyone's being hit by things all the time. You can't
17:19
Speaker 1: change that. But what you can do is reassure that
17:22
Speaker 1: people that spend hours, days and week working on something
17:25
Speaker 1: that it can be It can go to someone who
17:27
Speaker 1: loves your music in the best possible way. It's like
17:30
Speaker 1: who wants who wants a cold pizza in a box? Absolutely,
17:33
Speaker 1: And one of the things about the well meaning technical
17:38
Speaker 1: advances what they can do is you can listen to
17:42
Speaker 1: a piece of music and then they press a button
17:44
Speaker 1: that would be like the equivalent of let's say a
17:46
Speaker 1: loudness button. Everybody knows what the loudness button does, so
17:50
Speaker 1: you press the loudness button and it seems like you
17:52
Speaker 1: might like that better, but you might like that better
17:55
Speaker 1: on some pieces of music and not others. And if
17:58
Speaker 1: that loudness button was universally put on everything, where you
18:02
Speaker 1: no longer have the button or the choice to turn
18:04
Speaker 1: it off. It's one of the things actually with Sonos
18:07
Speaker 1: that I recommended early on with Sonos. Sonos has it
18:11
Speaker 1: built in loudness button and it comes on, and I
18:14
Speaker 1: suggested it should come off, and you can turn it
18:17
Speaker 1: on if you want it on. But the first thing
18:20
Speaker 1: I do when I connect a new Sonos speaker is
18:23
Speaker 1: turned off the loudness but absolutely because it sounds more
18:26
Speaker 1: like what the record sounds like. Yeah, and that's the
18:28
Speaker 1: that's the thing. It's like, you know, that's designed so
18:30
Speaker 1: a loudness button in that case is designed so it
18:34
Speaker 1: adds more base at lower levels, not high levels. It's
18:37
Speaker 1: the same thing as I remember when having a car
18:39
Speaker 1: which had a variable volume limit for when how fast
18:43
Speaker 1: I was going. Remember the worst it makes me crazy
18:45
Speaker 1: most cars happen. Yeah, it's like what is especially if
18:47
Speaker 1: you're listening to mixes while you're driving and it makes
18:50
Speaker 1: you crazy. It's just and actually I was listening to
18:52
Speaker 1: a Shawny a Shanty mix the other days artists and
18:55
Speaker 1: it was like and I was listening to on a
18:57
Speaker 1: system and with it with the mix engineer, and it's
19:00
Speaker 1: like loads of ediwate kicked drum loads the thing. And
19:03
Speaker 1: we were checking out and I said, did you mean
19:06
Speaker 1: to make the vocal louder here? It's very rave, and
19:09
Speaker 1: he goes, no, it stays to stay the same. And
19:11
Speaker 1: what happened the system was compressing. And it's the thing
19:14
Speaker 1: about compressing. A limit to the system was compressing. So
19:17
Speaker 1: once the once the edyway and all that heavy low
19:19
Speaker 1: sub was removed from the track. When the guy was rapping,
19:23
Speaker 1: when there was no it meant his vocal just came up.
19:26
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's not right, that's not that's
19:29
Speaker 1: not that's an example. So I mean I said to her,
19:33
Speaker 1: like a senior engineer Apple, who's a good man of mine.
19:35
Speaker 1: And this is when they released one of the released products,
19:37
Speaker 1: and the same with Snos and all these they said
19:40
Speaker 1: in the blurb, you know, we remix the sound. I
19:43
Speaker 1: never say if you want the artist, never say your
19:45
Speaker 1: product remixes the sound, just say we are you know,
19:48
Speaker 1: I want there to be a completely flawless window and
19:53
Speaker 1: let the sunlight shine true into our homes. That's what
19:55
Speaker 1: I want, or open just to flow, and I don't
19:58
Speaker 1: want I don't want anything between it. That's the thing.
20:00
Speaker 1: And there's and bizarre. You have to do a lot
20:02
Speaker 1: of technical stuff to make that happen. That's the key.
20:06
Speaker 1: But it's tasting how even certain things like vinyl. It's
20:10
Speaker 1: really funnel list in the vinyl. But I can't say
20:12
Speaker 1: that vinyl is more accurate. It's just another filter. It's
20:16
Speaker 1: do you know what I'm saying. It's it's maybe a
20:18
Speaker 1: filter we like y. Same is true with tubes. It's
20:21
Speaker 1: like tubes sound great, but they sound like tubes. They
20:24
Speaker 1: don't sound like that they use it. It's like it's
20:27
Speaker 1: the it's the thing. It's like I remember, you know,
20:30
Speaker 1: the first Beadles out of My Realm that they asked
20:32
Speaker 1: me a remix, and I was against remixing any Beatles album.
20:34
Speaker 1: I've gotta be honest with you, but you know, Paul
20:36
Speaker 1: and Ringo said, you know, we want, you know, can
20:38
Speaker 1: you do this? And I said, we'll do. I'll do
20:40
Speaker 1: three tracks and then we'll say we listen to them
20:42
Speaker 1: and they liked them, and I was like, it was
20:44
Speaker 1: Sergeant Peppers, and so I remix Sergeant Peppers and I
20:48
Speaker 1: really spent a lot of time over the stuff. I'm
20:50
Speaker 1: thinking about it because I'm basically penny of my start
20:52
Speaker 1: in the Mona Leaves. So I'm doing it stuff. A
20:54
Speaker 1: lot of people, like a a lot of people who
20:56
Speaker 1: are better than me, would like to be doing this
20:58
Speaker 1: job and be a lot of people love this music,
21:00
Speaker 1: would like me to not be doing this job. So
21:02
Speaker 1: I'm walking. I know that I'm walking this fine line
21:04
Speaker 1: at the same time, and I'd done it, and I
21:07
Speaker 1: looked at it and I was wanted is it too bright?
21:09
Speaker 1: You know? Is it too loud? Is it to eventually
21:11
Speaker 1: unhappy with it? And then we cut the vinyl and
21:14
Speaker 1: it to me, it sounded really good. It sounded better
21:16
Speaker 1: than what I and I found it annoyed because like
21:18
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I like to be in control
21:20
Speaker 1: of stuff. I wouldn't control stuff. I cut the final
21:22
Speaker 1: even the stery imaging sounded better to me. Yeah, it
21:24
Speaker 1: was like, what's what's going on here? Yea, I can't,
21:26
Speaker 1: I don't know, But that's a filter. It it's a filter.
21:29
Speaker 1: And in all these cases there there's like there's the
21:33
Speaker 1: arguments that vinyl is closer to It's like, no, it's not,
21:36
Speaker 1: but you may like you might like it more. It
21:38
Speaker 1: may be it may be technically better, but it's not closer.
21:42
Speaker 1: And there's and there's a whole generation of records you
21:46
Speaker 1: know from what Drey was doing, which which the way
21:49
Speaker 1: that shifted wouldn't been able to shift if it was
21:52
Speaker 1: still on vinyl, yes, or if it was still on tape. Yeah,
21:56
Speaker 1: because because the amount of base on the low end
21:58
Speaker 1: wouldn't exist. Yes, they wouldn't exist. It just wouldn't. Like
22:01
Speaker 1: you know, that's the interesting it. Maybe it's not better
22:03
Speaker 1: or worse, it just is it's just different. Yeah, and
22:06
Speaker 1: you use use the equipment that you have. That's things
22:09
Speaker 1: like the excuse many people we see they feel like
22:15
Speaker 1: they can't do it because the equipment changed. It's like
22:17
Speaker 1: it really is the artist and the listener and whatever's
22:22
Speaker 1: in between is not so important. You know what I'm saying.
22:25
Speaker 1: We can, we can use our best efforts to use
22:29
Speaker 1: what we think sounds good. But to say, well, if
22:32
Speaker 1: I don't have a Nive console, I can't make a record,
22:34
Speaker 1: say it's it's a ridiculous idea I had. I had.
22:37
Speaker 1: I have a friend of mine who was a great
22:38
Speaker 1: mixed engineer, and I was working. I was producing a
22:41
Speaker 1: band when I was twenty three, deeply unsuccessful. I'm doing
22:43
Speaker 1: a really bad job. So I didn't know what I
22:45
Speaker 1: was doing. He wasn't he was. It was at Rack
22:46
Speaker 1: Studios in London, which a great studio, old API desks
22:50
Speaker 1: and stuff. And he was the room next door and
22:51
Speaker 1: he's working in bands of the nineties and it sounded
22:53
Speaker 1: great what he was doing. I'd go back into my
22:55
Speaker 1: room and it's sud a terrible his room. And we
22:58
Speaker 1: became friends and you know, and he actually said one
23:01
Speaker 1: thing to Goes Once, once you learn how to make
23:03
Speaker 1: things sound good, it gets kind of boring. So you
23:04
Speaker 1: have to work out. You know that, you know, you know,
23:07
Speaker 1: I try not making make bad sound. I don't think
23:10
Speaker 1: I make bad selling records. You know, I kind of
23:12
Speaker 1: know why. But he said to me, Goes, I don't
23:14
Speaker 1: I mistrust anyone who walks into studios and saying I
23:16
Speaker 1: can't work in the studios, especially nowadays. We have everything. Yeah,
23:20
Speaker 1: we have everything, and it's like, I'll tell you what
23:22
Speaker 1: makes great sound. It's great musicians. Yeah, that's the thing.
23:26
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like I worked on the first Jubilee
23:29
Speaker 1: concert back in two thousand and two which Brian May
23:31
Speaker 1: played guitar on the roof for Bucking Palace and we
23:34
Speaker 1: had as an artist and Stevie Winwood was one of
23:36
Speaker 1: the artists and he wrote to me and he was
23:38
Speaker 1: doing give Me Some Loving and was like the band
23:40
Speaker 1: was like it was like Phil Collins and drums and
23:42
Speaker 1: Peino Padion on bass and Ray couprom percussion and it
23:46
Speaker 1: was one of those It was one of those great
23:47
Speaker 1: English kind of charity events. And Steve win was one
23:51
Speaker 1: of the nicest guys in the world. And he gave
23:53
Speaker 1: me CDs of each part of give Me Some Loving
23:57
Speaker 1: for the band to learn, which he'd done MIDI like
24:00
Speaker 1: on the like DX seven or something else, and he's
24:02
Speaker 1: seven of this demo like like Pino said to me, goes.
24:04
Speaker 1: I think I know how the baseline from Give Us
24:06
Speaker 1: Loving goes. It's like getting remembered and it was like
24:10
Speaker 1: on a key like on a keyboard, but then he sang.
24:14
Speaker 1: He sang obviously on some like answer phone on this track.
24:18
Speaker 1: It was the weirdest thing. It was this terrible backing track,
24:20
Speaker 1: which is a terrible MIDI backing track with Steve Winwood
24:23
Speaker 1: singing into and it was like he could sing into
24:26
Speaker 1: anything and he would sound amazing, like Joe Cockroll, like
24:29
Speaker 1: this artist he was on the concert as well. But
24:30
Speaker 1: there's these singers like the reason why people go even
24:33
Speaker 1: with me with Beetles stock at that. You know, the
24:36
Speaker 1: White album sounds great. It's like that's because it sounds great.
24:38
Speaker 1: I mean, thank you, but I honestly I'm pushing faders
24:41
Speaker 1: up and you know, and as we move on, it's
24:44
Speaker 1: the unfair thing. You start, you go, you work with
24:46
Speaker 1: people who aren't very good, and then you get to
24:48
Speaker 1: work people good and you make good records. And we
24:51
Speaker 1: get a lot of credit for stuff that's just people
24:53
Speaker 1: sound good. That's will sound good, people sound people sound good.
24:56
Speaker 1: And if we're in a lucky position to get to
24:58
Speaker 1: cast the people who are playing, yep, and if we
25:01
Speaker 1: pick the right ones, it sounds really good. Yeah, it
25:04
Speaker 1: sounds It's like that's the more than any microphone, yeah,
25:07
Speaker 1: or more than any compressor or you know, we have
25:09
Speaker 1: favorites like equipment we like to use, but you have
25:13
Speaker 1: to start off with the right ingredients. Yeah, I was
25:15
Speaker 1: lucky to work on a session that Ringo played drums on,
25:19
Speaker 1: and he played smaller drums than most of the drummers
25:21
Speaker 1: that I work with, and he seemed to hit the
25:25
Speaker 1: drums more casually than the most of the drummers I
25:30
Speaker 1: work with, and the sound that came off the drums
25:33
Speaker 1: filled the room in a tremendous way that was different
25:37
Speaker 1: than everyone else. And it's just the way. It was
25:41
Speaker 1: the nature of the way he did it. Yeah, it
25:43
Speaker 1: was it was in his hands, YEA, in his body
25:47
Speaker 1: is where the sound was. Yeah. I sat in a
25:49
Speaker 1: room to a concert with Joni Mitchell once and she
25:52
Speaker 1: just played the guitar and singing like as close we
25:54
Speaker 1: are now. It was like I couldn't work out with
25:56
Speaker 1: the music was coming from. Yeah, I literally couldn't work
25:59
Speaker 1: out like it was emanating from her. And I love that.
26:02
Speaker 1: I love the fact that we look for that secret,
26:05
Speaker 1: you know, what's the plug in? And I love the
26:08
Speaker 1: idea that you could take someone you could train them
26:10
Speaker 1: to be Jonie Mitchell from the age of five, and
26:12
Speaker 1: they would never be Joni Mitchell. Now there's a spirit
26:15
Speaker 1: and without something pretentious. Our job is to is to
26:19
Speaker 1: capture that spirit and pass it it's possible, and to
26:22
Speaker 1: not get in the way up really well, this is
26:26
Speaker 1: the thing. I mean, even like with the legacy stuff
26:27
Speaker 1: I do with the Beetles, I get to walk in
26:29
Speaker 1: to Eduar and I get to put the tapest off
26:30
Speaker 1: in the same way you did with Paul and listening stuff,
26:32
Speaker 1: and you go, wow, how lucky am I? This is
26:35
Speaker 1: really touching me. You know, how can I take stuff
26:38
Speaker 1: off this so people can hear it? You know, I
26:39
Speaker 1: mean opposed to how can I get my sound up?
26:42
Speaker 1: You know that has nothing to do with that. You're
26:45
Speaker 1: just yeah, you're just basically you know, you're just passing
26:48
Speaker 1: things down. And it's the same when we're gonna come
26:50
Speaker 1: to the streaming thing. The next stage is the streaming thing.
26:53
Speaker 1: How can that be passed to someone? So here you are,
26:55
Speaker 1: here's here's not a cold pizza in the box. Here
26:57
Speaker 1: is a delicious thing for you to enjoy. Yes, let's
27:00
Speaker 1: talk about the White album A little bit. Be White
27:03
Speaker 1: album that you did was two years ago? Yeah, I
27:05
Speaker 1: think so, well, I yeah, and I did so. I
27:07
Speaker 1: did the whole pit adjective big Deluxe, Big two years ago,
27:12
Speaker 1: like it was about because I've been wanting to talk
27:13
Speaker 1: to you since then because that it really blew my mind.
27:18
Speaker 1: White Album might well be my favorite of all albums. Yeah,
27:22
Speaker 1: and when I listened to the new mix of it,
27:28
Speaker 1: it didn't feel like a remix. No, but it shouldn't.
27:31
Speaker 1: It didn't. It felt like I was hearing this album
27:35
Speaker 1: that I've been listening to my whole life all the time,
27:37
Speaker 1: that I was hearing it for the first time. And
27:40
Speaker 1: that was a remarkable experience, like I'd never actually heard
27:44
Speaker 1: it all before. Was like a blanket was taken off
27:48
Speaker 1: the speakers and I could actually hear the clarity of
27:53
Speaker 1: what was happening, and it was an amazing experience. So
27:57
Speaker 1: tell me technologically, what happened to allow that to happen. Yeah,
28:03
Speaker 1: it's a good question. The answer. The answer is, well,
28:05
Speaker 1: a number of things, but there's no there's no real
28:09
Speaker 1: one thing to pay. And it's certainly it's certainly not
28:13
Speaker 1: anything to do with cleansing or cleaning, because I didn't
28:16
Speaker 1: believe in that. Like, even when the White Album is
28:19
Speaker 1: predominantly eight tracks, there's a couple of four tracks, and
28:22
Speaker 1: I let the bleed from the other tracks come through
28:25
Speaker 1: because otherwise it becomes you know, sterile. Yes, But the
28:31
Speaker 1: White Album, like all Bele's album, was made for vinyl,
28:34
Speaker 1: and it was made in different rooms and at a
28:38
Speaker 1: fractious time, so people, it's quite It was mixed out
28:42
Speaker 1: of anger and mixed by Ken Scott and Chris Thomas,
28:45
Speaker 1: who are both brilliant. I mean, like Ken Scott went
28:47
Speaker 1: on to do Hunky Dory and Transformed by Lou Reed,
28:50
Speaker 1: amongst other things, and Chris Thomas is one of the
28:53
Speaker 1: one of the greatest producers. But it was done in
28:55
Speaker 1: a fractious time. You know, I think George Harrison or
28:59
Speaker 1: George Martin. My dad told the story when they were
29:01
Speaker 1: doing Savoy Tucky Truffle. My dad walked into Studio three
29:07
Speaker 1: in Iberia, I think they're in. Ken Scott was mixing
29:10
Speaker 1: it and goes, it sounds a bit bright, George, and
29:13
Speaker 1: he went, yeah, I know, and I like it, like,
29:15
Speaker 1: you know, get out of here, that kind of thing.
29:17
Speaker 1: And so it was made at a time where it
29:19
Speaker 1: was like the fractiousness is on the mix, if that
29:22
Speaker 1: makes sense. So therefore maybe and it's I have to
29:25
Speaker 1: walk a tight up here because I'm dealing with you know,
29:28
Speaker 1: a something people chitthol deer. Sometimes the translation of what
29:35
Speaker 1: was intended on the White album, like the aggression or
29:38
Speaker 1: not the aggression is leveled out a bit like we're
29:40
Speaker 1: talking about what streaming services do is it's it's come
29:43
Speaker 1: down sometimes to compress, sometimes too bright, sometimes whatever. So
29:47
Speaker 1: I'm having to mix this material, but I'm trying to
29:50
Speaker 1: mix it bearing in mind what they want, because don't forget,
29:53
Speaker 1: I am not Ringo and paust Live and Livy Harrison
29:56
Speaker 1: and Danny Harrison, Sean Nannon and Yoko, So I am
29:59
Speaker 1: working for them, playing at him. But my intent is to, Okay,
30:04
Speaker 1: how do I do as little as possible and get
30:06
Speaker 1: you to be in the room of the band, because
30:08
Speaker 1: one thing about the be the Beatles records, and I've
30:10
Speaker 1: worked on lots of other I've done, you know, I
30:13
Speaker 1: think I've mixed Rolling Stones, I've done Beach Boys, now
30:15
Speaker 1: I've done There's there's certain artists you a bit like
30:20
Speaker 1: an autopsy. You open up the body and you find
30:24
Speaker 1: out it's not in great working You order you need
30:26
Speaker 1: to sew it up and put it back to go
30:27
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. The Beatles aren't one of those artists.
30:30
Speaker 1: You open it up and you rise there's beauty that
30:32
Speaker 1: lies within. There's performance that you haven't quite heard yet.
30:36
Speaker 1: And that's what I try and focus on. You try
30:38
Speaker 1: and figure first. It's so the answer is not a
30:40
Speaker 1: technical it's not it's an emotional one. It's like, wow,
30:43
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that this was them live in the room.
30:46
Speaker 1: So how do I make it feel like like the
30:47
Speaker 1: wonderful work you've done? Like where the great thing about
30:50
Speaker 1: what you've done is you've you celebrate the musician in
30:53
Speaker 1: all of your work. In all of your work, you
30:55
Speaker 1: celebrate the musician. And I've learned from you from doing that.
30:59
Speaker 1: You know, I learn from you people from watching like
31:01
Speaker 1: the Chili Peppers documentarip was made way back then with
31:04
Speaker 1: you know, blood, sugar, sex, magic, that thing in the
31:07
Speaker 1: in the house, Well, we all want to be be.
31:09
Speaker 1: You will be produced by you Rick. You know that's
31:12
Speaker 1: the thing. And it's the same thing. So I walk
31:14
Speaker 1: into you know, forget the facts on my father's son.
31:17
Speaker 1: I want to be on those sessions because I'm a
31:20
Speaker 1: musician and I'm produced. That's what you know. It doesn't
31:22
Speaker 1: my dad has nothing to do this, but he does know.
31:24
Speaker 1: He's a spirit that I that that's with me, So
31:27
Speaker 1: I just go, Okay, Rick, you can't be with me
31:30
Speaker 1: listening to stuff, So how can I get you close
31:31
Speaker 1: to that? So? How do I mix this? So it's
31:34
Speaker 1: like you haven't heard it before. You have heard it before,
31:37
Speaker 1: and I'm really careful to ab the old news, so
31:40
Speaker 1: it's not you know, I remember listening. I really respect
31:42
Speaker 1: Bob Claymounts and he's a genius, but I remember he
31:44
Speaker 1: mixed all right now by Free and I was into
31:46
Speaker 1: humble Pie Guitar Player and they were like the cow
31:49
Speaker 1: babbles loud on the snare d I'm selling different. I
31:51
Speaker 1: was like, no, that's not what I want. I want
31:53
Speaker 1: you want. You want it to be what it is exactly,
31:56
Speaker 1: but what it is where you haven't heard it and
31:58
Speaker 1: there's a weird and that's why I don't understand, so
32:01
Speaker 1: why I'm asking it. Like it's not like the levels
32:03
Speaker 1: are different, it's not like the sounds are different, but
32:07
Speaker 1: you can hear it in a way you couldn't. But
32:09
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's kind of like in that mode,
32:13
Speaker 1: I'm kind of remastering in a really complicated way. You know.
32:16
Speaker 1: That's what I'm doing, are remastering individual tracks and putting
32:19
Speaker 1: it back together again. It's like there's and there's a
32:21
Speaker 1: weird psychosomatic thing that goes on here, like so I've
32:24
Speaker 1: just you know, just done Revolver and the Responsible Revolve
32:26
Speaker 1: has been like the White album has been. But there's
32:28
Speaker 1: like a finger snap in here, there and everywhere, and
32:31
Speaker 1: I hadn't. I don't remember the fingers snapping here, there
32:34
Speaker 1: and everywhere, not like listen to the Beatles. I don't
32:36
Speaker 1: listen to Beatles almost spare time. But it's like and
32:39
Speaker 1: I think, well, I put it there and then and
32:42
Speaker 1: I go, okay, maybe it should be here and come
32:44
Speaker 1: and and then you listening to originally go oh, though
32:46
Speaker 1: there it is. There's a weird psychosomat I think. People go,
32:49
Speaker 1: you make Ringo's drums louder. I don't really, but for
32:53
Speaker 1: some reason, there's the impact. And I think what it
32:55
Speaker 1: is is is the limiting and compression I do is
32:58
Speaker 1: slightly different from what they did then because I had
33:00
Speaker 1: more time, and let's face that, I also have what
33:03
Speaker 1: they did before to ab and and I learned really
33:06
Speaker 1: so my first Beatles experience was the Love Projects, and
33:09
Speaker 1: that was basically added desperation. So I was working on records,
33:13
Speaker 1: I think successfully, but things I didn't want to do.
33:15
Speaker 1: And I said, listen, I reckon. I can create a
33:17
Speaker 1: show that never happened just by chopping up the tapes.
33:20
Speaker 1: And they went, okay, you've got three months. We're not
33:21
Speaker 1: going to pay you. And I went to the album
33:24
Speaker 1: and I remixed on in the Wars, and I was like,
33:26
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm a genius. This is great, and
33:29
Speaker 1: just out of interest, I listened to the original and
33:31
Speaker 1: it sounded so much worse, but was so much better
33:34
Speaker 1: than my record than my mix. It was so much better.
33:36
Speaker 1: It's like claustrophobic and dark and distorted and mono and stereo,
33:40
Speaker 1: and it's like, no, what I've done is boring, and
33:43
Speaker 1: it's preserving that. It's like things don't have to sound great,
33:47
Speaker 1: they just have to sound right. Yeah, maintaining the spirit
33:51
Speaker 1: of what it originally was it's really important because then
33:54
Speaker 1: it's like the amazing thing about the Beetles and the
33:59
Speaker 1: people that worked on the Beatles. No, these great engineers
34:02
Speaker 1: and my dad is they did things really quickly, but
34:04
Speaker 1: they did things so right. That's the thing. Yeah, it's funny.
34:08
Speaker 1: I saw Paul about Revolver and I was playing him
34:11
Speaker 1: tax Man and he goes into the guitars. Your guitar
34:15
Speaker 1: is just the casar solo which he played, I think
34:18
Speaker 1: is you know, it could be more aggressive, and it's
34:20
Speaker 1: like it's really aggressive in the original. I was like, okay,
34:24
Speaker 1: he goes, he goes. I know it's too loud and
34:26
Speaker 1: the original, but it should be too loud. Yeah, and
34:28
Speaker 1: that seems like fresh by Sign of the Family Stone
34:32
Speaker 1: is a terrible sounding record, but a great sounding record.
34:34
Speaker 1: It's a great sounding reccause it's mixed in the way
34:36
Speaker 1: it's mixed. It's like and I speak to make sense
34:39
Speaker 1: like Tom Elmhurst and all these people WI go and
34:41
Speaker 1: I don't believe in what you do. And I really
34:43
Speaker 1: respect what they say, and it's absolutely right. I mean,
34:45
Speaker 1: they don't listen to what I do. But you don't understand.
34:47
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to correct a
34:50
Speaker 1: mistake or something like that. I'm trying to. And the
34:53
Speaker 1: one thing is that regardless of what you're I think
34:56
Speaker 1: it gets people talking about stuff, and then gets people
34:58
Speaker 1: to listen to stuff, and gets generations going having arguments
35:01
Speaker 1: about it, and then then they engage. They don't they
35:04
Speaker 1: don't just hear it, they listen to it. Yes, we
35:07
Speaker 1: have to take a quick break and then we'll be
35:09
Speaker 1: back with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin. We're
35:17
Speaker 1: back with Rick Rubin and Giles Martin. I understand that
35:21
Speaker 1: for the Revolver there's a new technology available that hasn't
35:25
Speaker 1: been available before that allowed this to happen. Is that correct? Yeah? Correct,
35:29
Speaker 1: tell me about that. So the pandemic hit, as we
35:32
Speaker 1: all know, and I was in the middle of working
35:36
Speaker 1: on the Get Back Project with Peter Jackson. We started
35:38
Speaker 1: working on that before the pattern and it was meant
35:40
Speaker 1: to be a two hour film and it became a
35:41
Speaker 1: seven hour, forty minute extravagant Peter Peter, who I love,
35:45
Speaker 1: and he's become like a really good, you know, a
35:48
Speaker 1: good friend. He loves a trilogy. You know, he can't
35:51
Speaker 1: avoid he kind avoid a trilogy in But it gave
35:55
Speaker 1: us time to you know, like a bit like wartime.
35:57
Speaker 1: It gave us time to look at technology. And the
36:00
Speaker 1: Get Back Project was record on Nagra tape, which is
36:03
Speaker 1: this quarter inch at least little brown reelser tape and
36:07
Speaker 1: not sunk to picture. We have to sink of him
36:08
Speaker 1: the picture and this tape had Paul and John talking
36:11
Speaker 1: with George Pan, a guitar or, and he has a
36:14
Speaker 1: dialogue at It's called Emil de la Rey's name is
36:16
Speaker 1: which a great name, who had looked into AI using
36:21
Speaker 1: actually American Police Force for search about how you can
36:24
Speaker 1: remove transience or things from different recordings. So he started
36:29
Speaker 1: taking the guitar off Paul's voice or John's voice or ringer,
36:33
Speaker 1: and it started separated these elements so they can make
36:36
Speaker 1: the film. And the film became what it is and
36:38
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's been really well received and join us.
36:40
Speaker 1: But at the end of the last student's process, you know,
36:43
Speaker 1: I was mixing the film. I was mixing the music
36:45
Speaker 1: for the film, and I said he had these elements.
36:48
Speaker 1: I said to him, and I said, okay, maybe we
36:51
Speaker 1: should have a look at Revolver. And he goes, what
36:52
Speaker 1: do you mean. I said, well, if I send you
36:54
Speaker 1: track one from tax Man, which the guitar based and
36:56
Speaker 1: drums together, can you separate them. He goes, yeah, I
36:59
Speaker 1: think so, And I went really want yeah, And I said, well,
37:02
Speaker 1: you know you'd look at it. I'll tell you what
37:04
Speaker 1: transience I'm missing, what things I'm missing. He did the
37:06
Speaker 1: first pass and it's pretty amazing. I said, there's a
37:09
Speaker 1: for things. The guitar hits I'm not. And we started
37:12
Speaker 1: collaborating on this process and it got to the stage
37:15
Speaker 1: where I kid you not and I'm happy to play.
37:17
Speaker 1: You know, they had the drums guitar bassed text message
37:20
Speaker 1: because guitars with the snare drum, I could have drums
37:24
Speaker 1: on their own where I can hear the squeak of ringos,
37:26
Speaker 1: kick drum, pedal, the bass separate, guitar separate, and all
37:30
Speaker 1: the transience there. So then then then he could separate
37:33
Speaker 1: the kick drum and snare drum, and the snare drum
37:35
Speaker 1: hits like kids you not, Rick, It's like a snare drum,
37:38
Speaker 1: a sample snare drum, It has the tail, has everything.
37:41
Speaker 1: And I don't know how I can claim credit for it,
37:43
Speaker 1: no idea. How it happens. It's AI and machine learning,
37:46
Speaker 1: and what apparently what does is the computer will recognize
37:48
Speaker 1: what the sound is. But really important to me is
37:51
Speaker 1: that I can then put all these others together and
37:54
Speaker 1: play the original tape and sync them up and reverse
37:58
Speaker 1: the phase and it completely do you hear nothing, So
38:00
Speaker 1: there's no artifacts, there's no distortion. I mean, like listen
38:04
Speaker 1: as an idea of what that is. So if I
38:06
Speaker 1: reverse the phase on something, it means that's the same thing.
38:08
Speaker 1: If I add a little bit of each to one,
38:10
Speaker 1: you start hearing it. You start hearing something because it changes,
38:13
Speaker 1: there's no changes happening, and it means it opens up
38:16
Speaker 1: the door. What's interesting is it opens up the door
38:19
Speaker 1: to a whole load of magical recordings that are out there.
38:23
Speaker 1: Not that they should be destroyed in any way, but
38:26
Speaker 1: just so new generation here, different things or great singers
38:30
Speaker 1: that haven't been heard can be heard, or even like
38:34
Speaker 1: people can be sampled and used for stuff. You know,
38:36
Speaker 1: it does open that. So you're basically taking a finished records,
38:43
Speaker 1: let's say it's in stereo, taking that stereo and with
38:48
Speaker 1: no back material, turning it back into the components correct
38:53
Speaker 1: that it was made from. Correct, and then you have
38:57
Speaker 1: those individual components that you can put back together in
39:01
Speaker 1: either the same way or in a different way. Yeah,
39:02
Speaker 1: it's like it's like being given a cake and then
39:04
Speaker 1: suddenly you know, you're handing me about flour, eggs, milk, sugar,
39:08
Speaker 1: you know whatever in the cake. Yeah, but they're pure. Yes,
39:11
Speaker 1: that's the difference. A lot of people have done this before.
39:13
Speaker 1: And I did a film with Ron Howard, this Beatles
39:16
Speaker 1: film Eight Days a Week, where I had to take
39:19
Speaker 1: screams off. Great movie, but it was it was a
39:21
Speaker 1: great thank you, It was great. But to get the sound,
39:23
Speaker 1: to get any form of sound, because this is like
39:25
Speaker 1: the Washington concert is it sounds awful? I mean it
39:28
Speaker 1: sounds it's to get you know. I had to do
39:30
Speaker 1: some d mixing and just so you could hear the band,
39:33
Speaker 1: but it was still really really mentioned. It didn't sound
39:36
Speaker 1: very good and it was like I to really put
39:37
Speaker 1: it back together again with this. We're going to the
39:40
Speaker 1: stage now where the drums from s she said? You know,
39:45
Speaker 1: you know the band have never heard the drums from
39:47
Speaker 1: she said, because they were guitar and bass. But it's like,
39:50
Speaker 1: you know, if I played you the drums from she said,
39:53
Speaker 1: which had been in the studio right now, you go, hey, Jiles,
39:56
Speaker 1: that's a great sounding drum sound. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Yeah,
40:00
Speaker 1: you know, it's something like Revolver. You know, we're used
40:02
Speaker 1: to thet the Stereobis Revolved. Wasn't actually the sterming if
40:05
Speaker 1: the Stereomus Revolved was done in the eighties by my
40:07
Speaker 1: dad at air studios in at you know that people felt,
40:11
Speaker 1: how can you destroy history? Let's not actually even history
40:14
Speaker 1: was done? Letskan reverbs and stuff like that. So the
40:16
Speaker 1: original it was it was Mono. Yeah, Mino was the version. Well,
40:20
Speaker 1: Mona was the version, because all of them, because even
40:23
Speaker 1: to the end, Mano was still the main version, absolutely,
40:26
Speaker 1: because people didn't have stereos. Yes, you know, Mono and
40:29
Speaker 1: Vinyl the version, I think, and I think that's right.
40:31
Speaker 1: I think if you the stereo was almost like an afterthought.
40:34
Speaker 1: The stereo version of the of the recordings were let's
40:39
Speaker 1: just say less, had less focus. Yeah, and and like
40:43
Speaker 1: no one's listen to the stereo because radio wasn't stereo. Yes,
40:47
Speaker 1: you know, we're in this world now where we have
40:49
Speaker 1: all the music in the world and boxes in our
40:51
Speaker 1: pockets and we have everything everywhere. But you know, if
40:54
Speaker 1: you want to access anything, you'll listening to something at home.
40:56
Speaker 1: You're listening to a mono who wouldn't have heard stereo.
40:59
Speaker 1: And that's why, you know, interesting or non interesting. Early
41:02
Speaker 1: sterio was just crazy. I mean, got good fun, but
41:05
Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy, you know. And actually in America
41:08
Speaker 1: sterio is much bigger I think that was in England.
41:10
Speaker 1: So the early Beatles albums that people know where all
41:13
Speaker 1: of the bands on one side, all of folks on
41:15
Speaker 1: the other side, people go, that's great. My dad was
41:18
Speaker 1: so angry about that when it happened, you know, because
41:21
Speaker 1: Capital took the records and did this because they wanted
41:24
Speaker 1: stereos because that was the new thing. It's like the
41:27
Speaker 1: But they didn't do it in a musical way. They
41:29
Speaker 1: just did it. They just did it in the technical way,
41:31
Speaker 1: exactly right. I've heard rumors, I don't know if this
41:33
Speaker 1: is true that the reason that the things were separated
41:36
Speaker 1: the way they were was if you played one of
41:41
Speaker 1: those funny odd stereo through amano system, it sounded better.
41:47
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true really, that that was
41:49
Speaker 1: the theory of why Capital did it was because that's
41:52
Speaker 1: what sounded better on the radio. I don't know if
41:55
Speaker 1: that's true. I wonder if that's a response. It's a
41:58
Speaker 1: response into into the English saying what have you done this? Yeah?
42:02
Speaker 1: Maybe they went well because maybe if we play this
42:05
Speaker 1: could be an excuse but be fun to do the tests. Yeah,
42:07
Speaker 1: I would actually see what yes that thing about? Like
42:10
Speaker 1: you know, when you take a Mono. It's this thing.
42:12
Speaker 1: When they were remastering some Mono stuff, I just said,
42:15
Speaker 1: just take one side, don't take both sides and put
42:18
Speaker 1: them together choosually get some sort of phase. It's Mono.
42:22
Speaker 1: Take one side. Yeah, it's good idea, you know. So
42:26
Speaker 1: with with that process, and this is the thing that
42:29
Speaker 1: I battle with is that I've had a really happy
42:33
Speaker 1: time of things because because people have accepted what I do,
42:37
Speaker 1: you know, which is amazing. And I never thought that
42:39
Speaker 1: we know, I thought, again, burnt down material you're doing
42:43
Speaker 1: it could be catastrophic. Yes, yes, So the fact that
42:47
Speaker 1: it's not, the fact that it's not is a really
42:51
Speaker 1: good sign because you really are playing with fire. Well
42:54
Speaker 1: I think that's I mean, that's one of my great
42:56
Speaker 1: marketing things, is that Charles Martin not catastrophic. Yes, that's what.
43:01
Speaker 1: But but you're given the tools to really do damage.
43:06
Speaker 1: Yeah no, yeah, yeah, I try my best. Um. But then,
43:12
Speaker 1: and it's the weirdest thing now, that's it's like I'm
43:14
Speaker 1: the person who talks about Beatles albums and the like
43:18
Speaker 1: and the bells they want me to. It's like, you know,
43:20
Speaker 1: when I was in XFM in New York talking about
43:22
Speaker 1: Revolver and Ringo was in the in the morning before
43:25
Speaker 1: night and then he went, hey, Ringo was and I
43:26
Speaker 1: was like, was he and they went like yeah. He
43:28
Speaker 1: goes he says, you know, we loved Jarles the best
43:30
Speaker 1: and I love Ringo Ringer as you worked him. He's great.
43:33
Speaker 1: He's like he not only is he one of the
43:34
Speaker 1: best drummers ever to have lived, he's also one of
43:36
Speaker 1: the nicest humans ever to live. Like, man, yeah, I
43:39
Speaker 1: was like, why am I? Why am I talking about
43:42
Speaker 1: Revolver and he's it's that thing, but you but the
43:45
Speaker 1: technical aspect of it. Everyone's about tech aspect and I'm
43:48
Speaker 1: feel like going, yeah, but it doesn't matter. Just listen
43:51
Speaker 1: to the music, you know. That's the thing. It's like, yes,
43:53
Speaker 1: there's with with Revolver, for instance, and I hope people
43:56
Speaker 1: like it. It's had a like I didn't interview the
43:58
Speaker 1: Sunday time and the guy said, I mean, you know,
44:00
Speaker 1: I listened to my son and it's my favorite album
44:03
Speaker 1: and I loved it. It's I come from I say,
44:05
Speaker 1: Charles is great. It's like it was mastered a month ago.
44:08
Speaker 1: I went, it was mastered a month ago, and that's
44:16
Speaker 1: it's this weird kind of thing. But I want people
44:17
Speaker 1: to listen to the songs. It's like that thing is
44:19
Speaker 1: like with the Beatles, because the Beatles, it's the same
44:21
Speaker 1: with the streaming thing. I use maybe in a not
44:24
Speaker 1: even a Macavlian way, but I use that influence they
44:27
Speaker 1: have as a as a catalog to try and make
44:30
Speaker 1: all of it better, you know what I mean. That's
44:31
Speaker 1: the if I'm if I'm going to be given this privilege,
44:33
Speaker 1: I might as well. Like you know, the interesting thing
44:36
Speaker 1: about the d mixing process is not necessarily it's it's less.
44:41
Speaker 1: It's it's amazing that we do technology which is helping
44:45
Speaker 1: me mix Revolver by the Beatles, and it's one of
44:48
Speaker 1: the greatest albums whatever. But for things like stopped by
44:51
Speaker 1: dre there's things that stopped on on on MPCs or
44:55
Speaker 1: ACAI samplers in the nineties. People don't have their assets. Yes,
44:59
Speaker 1: you know, the Tom from the Chemical Brothers family wants
45:01
Speaker 1: a remix setting some of the Chemical Brothers and he goes,
45:04
Speaker 1: we just can't find the drums, Giles, and you go, Okay,
45:07
Speaker 1: there's artists that now and have their things back amazing,
45:11
Speaker 1: and so that's what I'm going. That's what we're going, Okay,
45:14
Speaker 1: how do we how do we make this available to people?
45:16
Speaker 1: That's what I'm into. I'm not into. I'm not into
45:19
Speaker 1: the elitism of it. I mean it's the Beatles, so
45:21
Speaker 1: it's elitist, but I much offer it to be for everybody. Yes,
45:24
Speaker 1: And it's a great tool and for the people who
45:27
Speaker 1: also happen to catch the best version of something at
45:31
Speaker 1: the demo recording and it was just on a dat
45:35
Speaker 1: or digital recorder and that's all you had was the
45:38
Speaker 1: digital recording and it doesn't really sound as good as
45:41
Speaker 1: it can, but the performance has never been beat Yeah.
45:43
Speaker 1: The fact that that could now be turned into a
45:45
Speaker 1: proper recording, it's very exciting. And there's so much stuff
45:48
Speaker 1: even I mean I was asked to remix, and when
45:51
Speaker 1: I was in my twenties, I went within access since
45:53
Speaker 1: they became friends of mine now, they asked me to
45:54
Speaker 1: go and you know, mix something, and they could they
45:57
Speaker 1: had no one can find the vocal to this track. Wow.
45:59
Speaker 1: And it's like a really well known song. Wow. And
46:02
Speaker 1: so you know, hey, Peter, can you have a look
46:04
Speaker 1: at this? And it's like, here's your vocal back. Just
46:06
Speaker 1: things like that. Amazing. The incredible thing about what I
46:10
Speaker 1: get to do is I get to get a one
46:12
Speaker 1: inch four track tape out of its box and put
46:15
Speaker 1: on a machine press play, and it sounds the same
46:18
Speaker 1: as when it was recorded. And with the Beatle stuff,
46:21
Speaker 1: there's no baking, there's no restoration, and I don't want to.
46:24
Speaker 1: I don't want to digitally cleanse something. I don't want
46:26
Speaker 1: to because it ages things. It's like, you know, it's
46:29
Speaker 1: like plastic surgery or someone's face. It'll change the quality
46:32
Speaker 1: that's there in the world of what our legacy, of
46:35
Speaker 1: what we've done or what you've done. How many recordings
46:39
Speaker 1: that you play back can be played now? I mean,
46:42
Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's the thing that happens. It's like,
46:45
Speaker 1: you know, even a love showing in Vegas after the
46:47
Speaker 1: tenth anniversary, we redid it and I was working on
46:50
Speaker 1: Protal's nine creating this thing. I couldn't open the sessions up.
46:55
Speaker 1: We have to go back and get an old computer
46:56
Speaker 1: and you know that's it's that but sort for fifty
46:59
Speaker 1: six years ago, get out the box and press play. Amazing.
47:05
Speaker 1: There's more of Rick and Giles's conversation, so we should
47:08
Speaker 1: have check out part two next week. For to talk
47:11
Speaker 1: about the glory days of George Martin studio that was
47:14
Speaker 1: built next to an active volcano in the Caribbean. They
47:17
Speaker 1: also listened to a song from the remastered Revolver album
47:20
Speaker 1: and Giles talks about his father's surprising punk rock facts.
47:24
Speaker 1: You can hear a playlist of Beatles songs remixed by
47:27
Speaker 1: Giles Martin at broken Record podcast dot com. You can
47:30
Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash
47:34
Speaker 1: Broken Record Podcasts, where you can find all of our
47:36
Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.
47:40
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with helpful ly Arose, Jason Gambrel, Ventaladay,
47:45
Speaker 1: and Eric Sandler. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record
47:49
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this
47:52
Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
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Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if
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Speaker 1: you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and
48:09
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast apt I thee Musics by
48:12
Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond, h