Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Mindwarp (3/4)

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Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Mindwarp (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker
• 0:37
  quicker. You killed hamster.
• 0:42
  Sigh. And Fraser have no right to
• 0:45
  dismiss mine or anyone else's opinions.
• 0:51
  You too caught controversy on a regular basis and have
• 0:55
  ridiculous opinions. And I have every intention of
• 0:58
  finding out what they are. Welcome back to a hamster with a
• 1:04
  blood pen knife. The Doctor Who commentary
• 1:07
  podcast. The dreamiest of dream teams are
• 1:12
  back together again. Oh good grief. 5 millionth
• 1:17
  commentary podcast together now in a great run of episodes.
• 1:22
  Fraser, Gregory. Hello.
• 1:25
  Hello. Otherwise known as young Frasier
• 1:27
  and Mr. Siah. Hello.
• 1:30
  Hello. Otherwise known as.
• 1:32
  But an ill and I after that but I didn't.
• 1:38
  Laugh inside. Come on.
• 1:40
  Oh, not again. Go on, a bit turned on.
• 1:46
  We are here today to talk about episode part 7.
• 1:54
  Is that right? Of trial of a Time Lord?
• 1:56
  Yeah. I get so confused.
• 1:58
  Oh, he's out of the nail. Well done.
• 2:00
  Or mind warp. Episode 3.
• 2:03
  I feel we have this conversation.
• 2:05
  Mysterious planet, didn't we? As to how we consider these?
• 2:08
  I saw. You're a trial, aren't you?
• 2:10
  Well, it's funny because I said that for effect, because
• 2:15
  actually I've referred to them by their individual names.
• 2:18
  As to why? Because you've got to
• 2:20
  distinguish these bits of the trial and saying trial of the
• 2:24
  time knows part 5 to 8 is not very.
• 2:28
  Fraser, are you a trial or are you an individual tiles?
• 2:31
  I I generally don't give a shit unless I'm talking to someone
• 2:36
  who genuinely does, in which case I'll go with the opposite
• 2:38
  of what they're saying. Before we go into Part 3, can I
• 2:41
  ask you both a question? If I'm saying it's brandishing
• 2:45
  this fabulous hamster Mark, I've got right here my coffee.
• 2:50
  Imagine, if you will, that you are the script editor of Doctor
• 2:56
  Who, OK, in season 22 and you put out this ridiculously
• 3:00
  violent, sort of colourful, acidic year and it's gone down
• 3:05
  like a cup of cold sick with the higher ups.
• 3:08
  They said Nope, that's it, we're cancelling Doctor Who.
• 3:10
  Oh God, someone smashed the telly.
• 3:12
  All right, we'll bring it back again.
• 3:13
  OK. But we're not going to change
• 3:15
  any of the personnel whatsoever. We're going to bring back that
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  idiot who did the last season. He can scripted it in the next
• 3:21
  one as well. Maybe if it's as bad, we'll be
• 3:23
  able to cancel it again. OK, so just put yourself in that
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  position. You're Eric Saywood.
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  Would you have done trial of a Time Lord Fraser?
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  I mean, if I was Eric Saywood, then I would, one, kill everyone
• 3:37
  off and two, blame the producer on John Nathan Turner and but
• 3:40
  yeah, I think. You think it was a savvy move?
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  I mean in terms of savviness, in terms of you know, your job,
• 3:52
  you've got a job, you know you're getting paid to do
• 3:55
  something. So you know at what point, you
• 3:58
  know, there is going to come a point in five weeks time when
• 4:02
  Eric Saywood goes not book of this.
• 4:04
  I'm off in terms of, you know, a creative choice.
• 4:10
  Was this the right thing to do? That's that's going to be a
• 4:16
  that's what's 1 of the great what ifs, isn't it?
• 4:18
  Of of doctor, you know what ifs? He would have left, you know,
• 4:23
  last season. What if GNT had left with
• 4:26
  Davison or last season as well and.
• 4:33
  I can certainly add your carpet would never have done this, no.
• 4:36
  No, it wouldn't have had a carpet, wouldn't have had
• 4:39
  Sylvester McAuley wouldn't have had, you know, it's, you know,
• 4:42
  when you think of what comes after this, all of that is, you
• 4:47
  know, you, you have to have those bad times to get those
• 4:52
  those good times essentially. And I don't know, I think I
• 5:01
  don't think this would have been my idea, but I think if someone
• 5:04
  to pitch this idea to me, I can see myself good, actually.
• 5:08
  Yeah, let's do that. Let's run with that.
• 5:11
  You know, let's let's put the show metaphorically and
• 5:14
  literally on trial and see what happens.
• 5:18
  I think it's a good idea to do. I just think there's a time to
• 5:21
  do it. And when the show is on trial
• 5:24
  for its life, that might not be it.
• 5:26
  Sorry. What about you?
• 5:27
  Oh, absolutely. It's, it's a dreadful idea in
• 5:29
  1986 to do this really is. I mean, it's putting your hands
• 5:36
  up and say, oh, look, we know this ha, ha, look, isn't that
• 5:39
  clever? We can.
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  Yeah, we're on trial. And the show, the doctors on
• 5:43
  trial and what they needed were just some really strong
• 5:48
  individual stories, well told, well made with great casts.
• 5:53
  And we're so nearly there. But I think, I think I said this
• 5:59
  in the Mysterious Planet, that what we're missing here is
• 6:03
  moments where they could really promote the show.
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  So you haven't really got the start of another story to the
• 6:11
  people who are watching. You're asking them to join for
• 6:14
  part 5 or part nine of a 14 part story.
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  And they need to know what's happened before and the audience
• 6:23
  of 1986 are not geared like we are now to that ongoing
• 6:30
  narrative. The soap operas people have
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  that. I think we there are a certain
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  subset of people who what soap operas knew the ongoing story.
• 6:40
  But I think for something like this, I think they're they're
• 6:46
  doing something that is far more modern than the 1986 audience
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  were ready. And the fact that they have to
• 6:53
  recap the story at the start of each episode just in case
• 6:57
  someone hasn't seen the previous 69 whatever episodes.
• 7:02
  You know, it's only a perfunctory thing.
• 7:04
  But they're acknowledging that this is a new and different type
• 7:08
  of Doctor Who storytelling that we haven't haven't seen sort of
• 7:12
  to this extent before. So I'm not sure it's a good
• 7:16
  idea. I think the problem is telling a
• 7:21
  14 part story is a really good idea, but this production team
• 7:25
  is not the right production team to be telling this because so
• 7:28
  much is going on behind the scenes that make it completely.
• 7:34
  Well, it's not the same production team at the end that
• 7:36
  it was at the start. No.
• 7:38
  And, you know, they've got longer than ever before to get a
• 7:44
  season together. And yet we've got so many
• 7:48
  stories that don't make it and so little time then at the end
• 7:52
  to cobble something together and desperation because JNT didn't
• 7:58
  like this or Eric Saywood didn't like this, or Robert Holmes has
• 8:01
  fallen ill and can't complete this.
• 8:04
  And it's just like, what are they doing?
• 8:07
  Oh, yeah, Well, we've got so far with this, but oh, no, it
• 8:09
  doesn't quite work now. So we've got this PJ Hammond
• 8:12
  story. We've got the the other one with
• 8:16
  the Penelopeans and things. We've got the Christopher H bit
• 8:20
  Mead story that doesn't come off.
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  You know, that's that's three stories before we've even got to
• 8:27
  Pip and Jane and the crisis at the end.
• 8:30
  You know, This is why couldn't they get it together?
• 8:33
  What? And we know why, because they
• 8:35
  couldn't work together and because we've got a script
• 8:38
  editor who isn't interested, a producer who's fearful about the
• 8:43
  the future of his show, and they're not the right people to
• 8:46
  be trying to cobble together a 14 part epic.
• 8:50
  And so it feels like it's thrown together because it literally
• 8:55
  is. You know what intrigues me about
• 8:57
  Trial of a Tyre Lord though? But I promise you, we will go
• 9:00
  into my life. This is a very bizarre point in
• 9:02
  this story to bring this out, but who cares is that the
• 9:09
  reputation of the Trial of a Tyre Lord is that it didn't
• 9:11
  work, But the first story had, I know it was a record low viewing
• 9:17
  figure of like 3.7 million or something like that.
• 9:20
  It gained almost 2,000,000 viewers as it went along because
• 9:24
  by the time you get to Ultimate Foe, there's 5 1/2, nearly 6
• 9:28
  million people watching. Yeah, because they did a big
• 9:31
  push for Bonnie and it was the start of the half term holidays.
• 9:38
  But it gave viewers, so it gained interest.
• 9:40
  Yeah, and there were, and there's even a special
• 9:43
  announcement at the end of the last episode of Mind Warp to
• 9:46
  say. And next week Bonnie Langford
• 9:48
  joins the TARD. Not Mel, it's Bonnie Langford.
• 9:53
  There's a big yeah. And there's a big feature in the
• 9:56
  Radio Times and things like that.
• 9:59
  And there's a new photo shoot, the sort of last bit of
• 10:01
  promotion that Colin gets to do as the Doctor with him in his
• 10:05
  beard, in the in the costume with with Bonnie and things like
• 10:09
  that. So they're giving it a push when
• 10:11
  they can and that does boost the ratings.
• 10:13
  Because Bonnie was popular, she was also very unpopular as well,
• 10:19
  so it's very devising. With all the right people,
• 10:22
  though, who cares if she was unpopular with those people?
• 10:25
  What I will say is that what Fraser just said there about if
• 10:28
  the right person pitched this God, you can see why he went for
• 10:31
  it. He goes right.
• 10:32
  We're going to give Colin a chance to do what he does best,
• 10:35
  deliver, you know, amazing verbose speeches.
• 10:38
  And we're going to kill Perry halfway through the season.
• 10:41
  We're going to bring in a new companion in the second-half.
• 10:44
  We're going to have a massive twist at the end that the the
• 10:47
  prosecutor is an evil version of the Doctor.
• 10:49
  Like on paper it sounds amazing. Exactly but.
• 10:54
  The problem being none of that was on paper with the team.
• 10:57
  No, I know that's not common. And the problem is, on each of
• 11:03
  those decisions, they roll it back.
• 11:06
  So he's not the future Doctor, he's an amalgamation of the
• 11:10
  Doctor. So he's not quite the Doctor.
• 11:12
  She's not dead, isn't. Killed actually the only one
• 11:16
  they do do is Mel does become the companion, but even that is
• 11:20
  so awfully fudged because of the times and things like that.
• 11:25
  So Mel meets the Doctor, Who hasn't met her but has the same
• 11:30
  rapport as he has with her in the story that he's.
• 11:34
  We will try and explain that when we get there.
• 11:37
  Well, swinging it round to episode 7 of.
• 11:40
  Time levels. Is well, no, no, I just want to
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  say is that Episode 3, Episode 7, wherever we are in this?
• 11:47
  Goddamn. Story is that one thing you
• 11:52
  absolutely can do with the overarching story is suggest
• 11:57
  drama to come. This episode does it brilliantly
• 12:01
  because it leads to a cliffhanger where it appears
• 12:05
  that Perry has been murdered and the Valliard has been hinted
• 12:09
  throughout this story that terrible things are are to come.
• 12:12
  Where's Perry? Don't you know where you left
• 12:15
  her? You know, and that that
• 12:17
  cliffhanger to this episode, I mean, I was sold because I knew
• 12:21
  she left in this story. I thought, fuck me, she's just
• 12:23
  been gummed down with a load of people and God it's so dark.
• 12:28
  That's just a dry run for the actual death that comes next
• 12:30
  week. Well, should we go and watch it?
• 12:33
  It's. A long opening.
• 12:36
  I'm so sorry you shouldn't give me this mug that says I have a
• 12:40
  question for you. Someone count us in then,
• 12:44
  please. 4/3. 2. 1. There we go.
• 12:57
  Well, we've got to say goodbye to the doctor and Perry being
• 12:59
  together again, haven't we? Yeah.
• 13:02
  I used to think, you know, Fraser, you was someone who
• 13:06
  dealt with justice, truth and good.
• 13:09
  Yeah, I apologize for saying nasty things about time flight,
• 13:11
  everyone. That was very Megan.
• 13:17
  Oh, I also need to apologize to Daniel Walmsley because he also
• 13:20
  did a really good version of Time Warp slash Mind Warp for
• 13:25
  the Polish box, which it seems that I have ripped off.
• 13:30
  So I think we did our versions, came up with our versions at the
• 13:33
  same time. But obviously he got his out
• 13:35
  into the world before I got mine.
• 13:38
  But yeah, go and listen to Daniel Wansley's version because
• 13:41
  he's much better than me. He can sing very good.
• 13:43
  Oh, yours was so camp, though. It was glorious.
• 13:50
  I love you know Brian Blessed. Listen to Sly reading.
• 13:52
  In a minute. Now, Doctor, it is your turn to
• 13:55
  die. He is.
• 13:59
  He is quite something, isn't he? Look at Colin's marvellous
• 14:04
  profile when he's strobling it. Gives us so much atmosphere,
• 14:10
  doesn't it? Did you guys ever go into a
• 14:13
  quiz, Aliza? I did, yes.
• 14:16
  Quite a laser. Laser.
• 14:17
  Yeah, quite a laser quest. Yeah, same thing.
• 14:20
  Same sort of thing, more sort of strobes and pretty much set in
• 14:25
  this set. We played right there was me, my
• 14:28
  ex-husband and our best friend Kirsty, and there was a load of
• 14:32
  kids right that were going in and we were like oh look at that
• 14:35
  punch. We've gone beat.
• 14:37
  They fucking trounced us. God.
• 14:40
  One of them was literally standing over me pumping lasers
• 14:44
  into me. Icotics.
• 14:46
  I'll tell you these children. Is Michael Jason wearing some
• 14:50
  eyeliner there? Just a little.
• 14:53
  Yes, I think he might be. It was the 80s.
• 14:56
  It's so intense, these two in these scenes, it's brilliant.
• 14:59
  I love them. And as we've said, these scenes
• 15:03
  are so different to the ones in the mysterious planet because
• 15:07
  the Doctor isn't it's. Like a viciousness.
• 15:11
  It's just like we've they've stripped away and we're
• 15:14
  beginning to see. Yeah, he goes bits.
• 15:17
  Of it, I'm starting to Bob back in my mind and the value goes,
• 15:21
  oh really? How convenient.
• 15:25
  But the emphasis is all wrong, he says, emphasizing the
• 15:29
  emphasis. Is this the bit where he says I
• 15:33
  refuse to suggest that I'm balmy?
• 15:36
  Or was that in the first one? Oh no, there it is.
• 15:41
  Balmy. An Earth slang sagacity.
• 15:46
  Oh God, I think the one on the left's fallen asleep now that's.
• 15:49
  Just the book says the one on the mate's still nodded off.
• 15:52
  The one in the middle, sort of coxes, I don't think he can hear
• 15:55
  through that dreadful massive hat he's got on.
• 15:58
  So he's sort of got his head cocked like that, or he could
• 16:01
  have dozed off maybe. It's very boring.
• 16:03
  They don't do anything, do they? Not a thing.
• 16:06
  Do you think they just vote at the end?
• 16:07
  Guilty, not guilty, once they've heard everything.
• 16:10
  Who even knows? I mean, it might be like
• 16:12
  Gallifrey and Press Box and they're just all that.
• 16:14
  Like, you know, they're going to do a podcast later.
• 16:18
  Must be the easiest work they've ever done.
• 16:20
  Podcast. Those actors, isn't it.
• 16:22
  All they've got to do is swivel around in their chair.
• 16:24
  They can't even do that in use of someone.
• 16:30
  Yeah, sorry. You see that guard there sort of
• 16:32
  studied gloves. They've been to a party like
• 16:36
  that. Well, no, I actually haven't.
• 16:38
  Been talking about that. I'm sure you have, Joe.
• 16:41
  I'll get you an in five. There's that shot.
• 16:43
  Look at that. That is really phenomenal.
• 16:46
  I'm pointing at the screen and gesticulating at how brilliant
• 16:50
  that is. So what they must have done is
• 16:52
  they've got that tent in the studio, they've sort of taken
• 16:57
  the picture of that. Yes.
• 16:59
  And then over the top and around it.
• 17:04
  So there's I think on the making of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the
• 17:08
  Galaxy. You can see how how they did it.
• 17:11
  You sort of using CSO and perspective to try and get it
• 17:14
  into a model. So.
• 17:18
  Isn't this great? That stingy he's got perhaps,
• 17:21
  Gentlemen, I could sting you to death should your opinions.
• 17:25
  Be our reaction to that is brilliant.
• 17:30
  It's a good thing that they managed to find the corpse
• 17:34
  floating around in the sea that looks just like.
• 17:37
  It's amazing, isn't it? I think they're a clone species,
• 17:41
  so there's plenty of Christopher Ryan's about the place.
• 17:44
  Well, was is it in the in the making of is something somewhere
• 17:51
  that the idea of the mentors is they're all just mutants of
• 17:55
  various, you know, the way it comes across in screen is that
• 18:01
  look like a proper race, you know, like Sil looks like.
• 18:04
  Oh, they're cast off, so they. The, the, the writers, they've
• 18:07
  all mutated in different ways and you know, it's the some that
• 18:11
  have got legs and walk around and, and there's obviously some
• 18:14
  that need to be carried around like Sil because they've
• 18:17
  mutated. And this is the thing with with
• 18:21
  Kev is that his mute mutation means that he's brain can't fit
• 18:26
  any skull anymore. That's.
• 18:27
  Right. It's all, it's all the designers
• 18:29
  just giving them a uniform look so we know they're eventually.
• 18:32
  Yeah, that's what's happened. It just comes across like now
• 18:36
  that is their race and that's what they all look like.
• 18:38
  Who is it? Who is it that said in the last
• 18:40
  episode that this is like an episode of Grey's Anastomy Now
• 18:43
  or ER? Yeah, it's, it's a medical
• 18:46
  drama. But it's so funny because you've
• 18:47
  got that massive slug that they're offering, you know, and
• 18:51
  Colin's there in his crazy coat. If people switched on, they'd be
• 18:54
  like, well, what's this medical drama?
• 18:58
  It is all done now, Fraser. You're right, though.
• 19:00
  There is all of those scenes where they're trying to bring
• 19:02
  him back to life. That's all done with total
• 19:05
  seriousness. Yeah.
• 19:07
  And so saw these scenes. I mean, this is he's playing it
• 19:14
  straight, though. This is the beauty of thing he's
• 19:16
  playing. He's playing it completely
• 19:17
  straight of like whistling mad and you hear him talking in that
• 19:22
  making off and he's like, yeah, I am.
• 19:24
  You know, I've got this cartoon part to play, but I am looking
• 19:29
  for the the still our moments, you know.
• 19:31
  So I'm looking to, you know, be, you know, he.
• 19:37
  Wanted to keep him new ones, didn't he?
• 19:39
  Yeah, he wanted to come depth. I'm looking for the point where
• 19:41
  I can literally just bring it straight down.
• 19:45
  And this one, this is really good because he he really
• 19:49
  genuinely believes that dying a hero is the best way to go.
• 19:55
  And. Harry's challenging his his
• 19:57
  beliefs and wanting to and then she.
• 20:01
  She says that I'm beginning to believe you really do believe
• 20:04
  this. Don't.
• 20:05
  You just totally believe them as a couple.
• 20:06
  Oh, fine. There's a question and then
• 20:09
  we'll March. There's a good warlord.
• 20:10
  Yeah. They are finding the humor in
• 20:13
  the script, but they are, they are not, you know, hamming it
• 20:16
  up, You know, should that deliver?
• 20:18
  You know, there's a good warlord.
• 20:20
  You know, if they were playing it as a sitcom, you know, there
• 20:23
  would be a lot more more happening with that lane.
• 20:27
  But it's just. I believe in a very early
• 20:29
  episode of a hamster of blunt pen knife.
• 20:31
  You know, if you go back and listen, it's very you have to
• 20:33
  scroll quite a while because it's been 900 episodes now, but
• 20:36
  you can see me there going Scion Fraser.
• 20:40
  They will find me, yes, a bit like probably.
• 20:45
  Listen in this story and look. Here we are, ROM Brom Savaluga.
• 20:50
  Jealous. I'm jealous.
• 20:53
  Me a king. Stop it.
• 20:57
  Stop it. He's a dog.
• 21:01
  A dog. It's bad enough we got this
• 21:05
  whole planet. Against us.
• 21:07
  About you 2 trial a battle lumps out of each other.
• 21:10
  This guy should have kept the play fish.
• 21:12
  For battle. I would watch a sitcom you like
• 21:15
  with Perry and you can't us. I think it would be great fun.
• 21:19
  Why Big Finish not giving us that?
• 21:21
  I know. And then on to death one bit.
• 21:27
  Of the time. Doesn't he say yes today?
• 21:33
  Prudent shall be our watchwords, yes.
• 21:35
  Yes. That's a wonderful line.
• 21:37
  It it's just a really lovely relationship and they work
• 21:40
  really hard at it and. It's.
• 21:43
  The happiness for Perry. And it's a wonderful bit where
• 21:46
  she's told them both of you bloody men do us, I'll tell you.
• 21:50
  And then they both look at each other and go.
• 21:56
  Basically the the relationship is the same as the relationship
• 22:00
  between Bostock and Alsini is just his acuiry is is 1/2 dog.
• 22:08
  Yeah, it's really moving when he died as well, the way Blessed
• 22:12
  plays that bit, I mean, and also as well in these crazy medical
• 22:16
  scenes you've got sealed there like an excitable kid.
• 22:19
  Please let them succeed. Have I missed a bit where?
• 22:26
  He asked a cup of tea as earlier.
• 22:28
  On No we don't. No, that's that's 4, isn't it?
• 22:30
  Oh, is it? Operating on Perry.
• 22:33
  Can we all take a squeak at that point?
• 22:35
  No, it's. Or is it this one?
• 22:36
  It's this one, yeah. Oh, is it all right?
• 22:40
  I think from this point on Colin is basically Colin again, isn't
• 22:45
  he? No, no, there's there's a point
• 22:47
  coming up where you can see the switch between the the evil
• 22:53
  doctor and you can see this is the definite point.
• 22:57
  And This is why I don't get why, you know, economists in, you
• 23:01
  know, you had this confusion. He's playing it this way because
• 23:03
  there's such a clear moment. Oh, you know the.
• 23:06
  Teller. Goes back to being the doctor.
• 23:09
  Sale is just one half my profit. Like you give me a 5 minute
• 23:12
  start. All right?
• 23:14
  You profiles knaves. Oh my Bunny, what is it?
• 23:18
  Because they joke. Admittedly in bad taste, but it
• 23:21
  was a profitless, humorous quip. Oh, he's wonderful.
• 23:30
  When I spoke to Luke Malloy about this one, he said he would
• 23:33
  have been down for Seal to be a companion for a couple of
• 23:35
  stories. It would have been wonderful.
• 23:39
  Who would come in and out the tortoise though?
• 23:41
  That gorgeous musty man, of course.
• 23:45
  Have you noticed that they've given seal nipples?
• 23:48
  I have not known. Look, you've.
• 23:51
  Noticed there's such a thing. He's got nipples.
• 23:55
  Yes, it's 900 episodes. This is what people come for.
• 23:58
  You. I shall tell you who noticed
• 24:00
  that he's got nipples, Fraser. That's Sophie Aldridge in Seal
• 24:04
  and the Devil Sees of Arador where she starts sponging down
• 24:07
  his privates. Oh good Lord.
• 24:09
  Yeah, You haven't seen that, have you?
• 24:11
  No, no. Her finest role today.
• 24:16
  What's going on now? Oh, it's the Alfan Rebellion.
• 24:19
  What a feckless bunch. And.
• 24:22
  It's really strange because Gordon Monica is was at the time
• 24:27
  a very well known actor. He'd been in My Beautiful
• 24:31
  Laundrette and was being sort of touted as.
• 24:34
  Was he in Brookie? I don't know if he was in
• 24:36
  Brookie or not, but and he's really good in that.
• 24:40
  So he he seems a little flat in this don't.
• 24:45
  You love Reichardt there he just went.
• 24:48
  Yes. Success, doctor.
• 24:50
  Like nothing. No, no.
• 24:51
  Great fanfare. No.
• 24:56
  Yep. Oh, you're right, Fraser,
• 24:59
  because he's still got the bit where he's talking.
• 25:01
  He goes off and does the financial work with Seal.
• 25:04
  That's wonderful, that bit. Is it the moment where he eats
• 25:09
  the marsh minnow? It is the.
• 25:11
  Moment where he's about yes. Was that enough to snap him?
• 25:14
  Out you always said that was the bit where he he changes as well,
• 25:18
  so. You know, if it's not lying,
• 25:20
  Perry gets in a minute. Nobody likes brain alteration.
• 25:24
  Shrink dwarf wants to be the way.
• 25:26
  Oh, Nicola Price, she has some dogs to say, didn't she?
• 25:29
  Yeah, there it goes. He's still there, look with his
• 25:36
  mouth wide open. Bless that mate.
• 25:38
  He must have got Lockjaw doing this.
• 25:42
  It's the thankless task of the companion to have have those
• 25:46
  kind of lines. Yep, but it's.
• 25:51
  The mentals. Yeah, Spitting and Doctor Who.
• 25:54
  At the same time, it's it's a companion rule that we don't see
• 25:58
  too often in the classic series. You know, it is the companion
• 26:01
  separated from the Doctor and going off and being yes, the
• 26:04
  Doctor saying now obviously I appreciate now that you guys are
• 26:06
  going to give me about 50 examples of where that does
• 26:08
  happen. No, no, I think you're right.
• 26:11
  And she's the one that's rousing them up as well, along with the
• 26:13
  Carlos, obviously. Oh, here we go.
• 26:17
  So cool. There he is, Fraser Gregory,
• 26:20
  taking a sip. It's just a bit as well where it
• 26:25
  says you won't die on me. Fish face, isn't it?
• 26:29
  Bless it. Poor Christopher Ryan, stuck in
• 26:31
  all that latex. And he comes back and gets stuck
• 26:36
  in Latex again. Again, yes.
• 26:38
  Do not die on me you fish face monster.
• 26:42
  I mean, that's terrible CBR. It really is.
• 26:45
  Don't. Don't ever take that as how you
• 26:48
  should do CPR. Flat on your back and lock your
• 26:51
  hands one on top of the other. Keep your arms straight.
• 26:56
  That's right, oddly damaged the ribs on the dubby in my first
• 26:59
  aid session. Yep, that was a bit.
• 27:01
  Easy to go, you know? I do love the fact though,
• 27:06
  right? Blessed could have come into
• 27:07
  this and he could have just winged it.
• 27:09
  This is a role that's obviously leaning into his Flash Gordon
• 27:12
  persona, isn't it? Lots of shouting.
• 27:14
  He could have just come in and just bellows, and I think a lot
• 27:18
  of people think that's all he does, but I think there is real
• 27:21
  layers to what he's doing. The scene in particular, we'll
• 27:25
  get There in 4 is between him and Perry and that cell that is
• 27:29
  beautifully active, that scene. Moment of charm, that is.
• 27:33
  It is. Oh, this is great.
• 27:36
  Money. Money, Money, money, money,
• 27:37
  money, money. Oh, no wonder the kids love if.
• 27:44
  Was there a Brazil toy? No, there should have been I I
• 27:47
  think the character options did a did a model in the end, but.
• 27:52
  Is it because he looks a bit like a turd?
• 27:56
  What are you doing playing with that turd?
• 27:58
  Let me just say, Joe, if your turds look like SIL, please go
• 28:01
  to the doctors. Oh OK, I mean if he came with a
• 28:04
  free muscle man to carry him I would have bought like.
• 28:09
  I thought yourself. Go with the doctors if it comes
• 28:10
  with a free muscle man. I love the fact that the Doctor
• 28:16
  ends up helping sell because of his knowledge of time travel and
• 28:19
  what's going on sort of out in the outer galaxies there's.
• 28:23
  A lot of debris, yeah. They're going to need salvage
• 28:26
  hunters and make a lot of money out of this.
• 28:28
  For these people to retrieve if they.
• 28:33
  Have new equipment. To have a Time Lord in one's
• 28:36
  employ. Oh, I just want to play Seal.
• 28:43
  I will. It's having so much.
• 28:44
  Fun and application for credit. And it's lovely because he'd
• 28:49
  been a Doctor Who fan as well and really loved the show.
• 28:52
  Yeah. We'll go.
• 28:54
  Yeah, we'll go. Yeah, we'll.
• 28:56
  Go OK, let's watch. Watch Colin.
• 28:58
  It's Peaches, isn't it? Diet Peaches.
• 29:00
  In his mouth and then that's it, where he just stops licking his
• 29:05
  finger and goes that's it's as if like the mind warp has been
• 29:11
  raised by what he's eaten. By the marshmallow.
• 29:15
  Yeah, say on his face when we go back to him any minute now and
• 29:23
  the you know that his face is just, he's the line delivery is
• 29:27
  completely changed. His face is completely drawn.
• 29:31
  You can feel like what the. Hell am I doing here?
• 29:35
  Yeah, that is it's like a little switch.
• 29:37
  So why he's thinking all this is well, just made-up on the
• 29:39
  Matrix. I don't know.
• 29:40
  It's clear. I was day from, you know, Ron
• 29:44
  Jones is saying, well, I don't know so, but you know, together
• 29:46
  the two of them are putting that that scene in.
• 29:49
  Did you see the way that that old man casually just laid down
• 29:53
  there instead of falling that? Was a classic fall that wasn't
• 29:57
  it. I'm not being paid enough to
• 29:59
  hurt myself, I'm sorry. Oh.
• 30:02
  Big are fallen. So they're being LED into a
• 30:05
  trap, aren't they? In the caves?
• 30:06
  Yeah, yes. OK.
• 30:07
  This is all very archetypal. Doctor Who here ripples caves.
• 30:13
  It's like so far, so time Lash. But with Brian Blessed, it does
• 30:21
  make a difference. Can you imagine the story of
• 30:24
  Brian Blessed and Paul Dewar in it?
• 30:26
  Yes, I've seen sickness, Alpha. Quite.
• 30:31
  He's quite restrained until the end, isn't he?
• 30:33
  Yes, he's. Oh, there's one episode of Space
• 30:36
  1999. Where?
• 30:37
  Oh my God. Blows his top it's so funny
• 30:42
  doesn't he doesn't he literally explode in Blake seven he.
• 30:46
  Does yeah, he gets headported into space shouting I should
• 30:50
  have been a God. It's probably the way he's going
• 30:53
  to go. Let's be honest.
• 30:56
  OK, so we've got our doctor back now for Episode 4, which is
• 31:00
  coming up. OK Matrona Carney, you.
• 31:05
  Her time management skills are impeccable, aren't they?
• 31:09
  You know, all of our whores are about doing their business.
• 31:12
  And here, she's here. Clearly the bothell just runs
• 31:14
  itself. Yeah, I do love that set though.
• 31:19
  They're all the equipment hanging from the ceiling.
• 31:22
  It's very different from 1986. Just I mean, you know, I think
• 31:27
  we've kind of acknowledged that the whole thing it looks
• 31:31
  different, doesn't it, than anything go back to mysterious
• 31:34
  planet. Well, we had some nice things to
• 31:35
  say, but there was some plasticky sets and overlit stuff
• 31:39
  and but. The corridor sets are the
• 31:42
  corridor sets from Mysterious Panic, but because they're lit
• 31:46
  and dressed differently, because it's the circular sets you see.
• 31:52
  But Redress, there's a lot of this throughout the season that
• 31:55
  you don't necessarily notice. So in Vervoids, Janet's desk is
• 32:00
  Drafro's control desk. Redress I.
• 32:04
  Could know that. Yeah.
• 32:07
  That was a great comic home. My Lords, that.
• 32:11
  Must be the first thing he sees when he weighs.
• 32:15
  Where he goes, Yeah, that's what Fraser does when I pop up on the
• 32:19
  screen. Every time Joe Ford has sent you
• 32:24
  a picture. Will you please say that's not
• 32:29
  true? That is not true.
• 32:34
  I'm going to delete them before opening them now.
• 32:38
  Look at Colin, he's doing his best.
• 32:40
  William Hart all there clutching his lapels.
• 32:43
  And is that to emphasize that the doctor is back?
• 32:46
  Maybe. No, it could be.
• 32:51
  So the ultimate aim here then, obviously was to save Kiev.
• 32:56
  But then what he realises is that he can transplant any mind
• 33:01
  into any body. Therefore, you can live forever.
• 33:05
  Yes, and what he's done here is move Kiev's brain into the body
• 33:11
  of this this mutant. But what they ultimately works
• 33:16
  out is that you could just transfer the contents of the
• 33:18
  brain into someone else's brain. So it's not the brain's not
• 33:21
  going to keep expanding. So that's what happens with
• 33:24
  Perry is that he basically wipes Perry's brain and puts Kip's
• 33:27
  personality in there. And that's why the Time Lords
• 33:30
  are a bit upset about it, because it's regeneration
• 33:32
  technically. Yeah, and he and he says he need
• 33:36
  never die. He.
• 33:37
  Can just move and move and move. And move.
• 33:40
  Yeah, When, when this body dies, we'll move.
• 33:43
  He's that sort of like classic underfunded mad scientist.
• 33:46
  He's like, he's only interested in Kiev.
• 33:49
  He doesn't care about Kiev at all.
• 33:50
  He just cares about his science. So it's like Kiev is his means
• 33:56
  to his end of, you know, doing brain transfers.
• 34:00
  It's sort of the only one, but Brookner says in Terra.
• 34:03
  The verve voice, isn't it? Oh, you see your name in the
• 34:05
  history books? Yeah.
• 34:08
  You are a great dog of war. I mean, sorry, a great warrior.
• 34:18
  Oh, there's that line. Prudent.
• 34:19
  It should be our watchword. Tomorrow I shall soak the land
• 34:23
  in blood. Oh oh.
• 34:26
  Oh, some rocks are falling. Some sparkly rocks.
• 34:29
  Oh my God, look. Oh watch this heavy acting.
• 34:32
  Oh God. Oh, is this where Trevor LED
• 34:36
  pops out the? It's very skinny legs on the
• 34:39
  show. That's right, there he is.
• 34:42
  He was literally just standing there because the camera whipped
• 34:44
  round. You know what?
• 34:48
  That that character was called dead.
• 34:51
  It was in all the rocks. Vern.
• 34:52
  Vern. Yeah.
• 34:54
  The only other Vern I can think of is the fat kid from Stand By
• 34:57
  Me. Do you remember Vern?
• 35:01
  No. The Planet in the Blake seven
• 35:03
  episode Sand. The planet Vern.
• 35:08
  Yeah. We go.
• 35:09
  Because it's green and. Yeah.
• 35:13
  What what is fabulous about this cliffhanger in a second, though,
• 35:15
  where they are all gunned down and it is a little bit quick.
• 35:19
  So we we kind of know it's not this is the doctor thinks she's
• 35:23
  dead. That's what makes the
• 35:24
  cliffhanger so great. Yes because it doesn't episode 4
• 35:28
  start with him just going is Perry dead?
• 35:32
  Yeah, but, and that's what you know, you know, it's you have
• 35:39
  the cliffhanger where they're going to be gunned down or they
• 35:43
  do get gun gunned down and they're stunned or whatever.
• 35:46
  You know, we've seen it a lot. Oh look, Twosa just did his best
• 35:53
  end of. Blake says when acting.
• 35:56
  At least Nick LeBron can fall down convincing.
• 35:59
  They should have given them slow MO like they did in Blake.
• 36:01
  Yeah, I am not responsible for that.
• 36:06
  He. Should have given Brian Blessed
• 36:08
  all the explosive blood plaques. And put us off of Colin Baker.
• 36:15
  Yes, OK. How many are we now 6?
• 36:17
  Six out of seven What's? The only one that hasn't been
• 36:20
  his face then. It was I think 3 of mysterious
• 36:26
  planet where? Yeah, because it's the arrow
• 36:28
  coming. What's his face?
• 36:33
  Shoots the crossbow. There's one in Vervoyage, you
• 36:37
  know, but he's not there at all. Possibly the best cliffhanger of
• 36:42
  the year. I thought that was rather jolly
• 36:45
  though. I thought that rollocks along
• 36:47
  because it had loads of scenes with Perry and Yukonos in it and
• 36:51
  they're really likable. There are likable characters in
• 36:53
  this. I think if it was really bleak
• 36:55
  and there was no humour and there was no people worth
• 36:57
  hanging with that would be a problem.
• 37:00
  But I I like the characters in this as.
• 37:02
  Episode freeze go, that's not running around aimlessly, that's
• 37:07
  there's actual beats of the plot going on there.
• 37:11
  So the the whole thing with Kev is is really, really good.
• 37:15
  Yeah. I wonder if the damage in this
• 37:18
  story is done in the second episode.
• 37:20
  The torture? The Doctor's sort of silliness
• 37:24
  when? He's up against.
• 37:24
  The rock face, if that's the sort of tough stuff that people
• 37:28
  really object strongly to. But I think there's there's a
• 37:30
  general consensus that 4 is pretty good.
• 37:33
  I think, you know, talking about the the torture stuff in two, I
• 37:37
  think the issue is it kind of goes back to what we're saying
• 37:39
  at the start about, you know, is this a good idea?
• 37:42
  And I think the concept of, you know, the the meta trial, you
• 37:48
  know, the the show is on trial outside of and you know, behind
• 37:51
  and on front of the screen is is absolutely sound.
• 37:53
  But I think, you know, the fatal flaw really is, you know, put in
• 37:59
  your defense or your prosecution up there on the screen and
• 38:03
  saying, well, actually, yes, This is why we're on trial.
• 38:05
  And it's because of what Doctor is unlikeable and he's torturing
• 38:09
  his companion and, you know, and not quite being able to rebut
• 38:13
  that is clearly as you would like.
• 38:17
  You're kind of, I think she's. Just been shot, Fraser.
• 38:20
  Yeah. What could he possibly say?
• 38:23
  Yeah, but this is what I'm saying, you know, it's like this
• 38:25
  is, you know, the the Valley Yard is winning.
• 38:27
  The Valley Yard is winning hands down now.
• 38:29
  So ergo, Michael, great. And the reason why this show
• 38:33
  should be cancelled is winning you all you've done.
• 38:39
  All you've done is show everybody exactly why you should
• 38:43
  be cancelled. It's not the bestest move.
• 38:46
  Why is Eric saying we're doing this?
• 38:51
  I'm funnily enough the second he fucks off things light up a bit.
• 38:56
  Don't the just. Don't the just.
• 38:58
  I mean, I have heard people say that this is the most same
• 39:01
  audience of Doctor Who stories, you know, in terms of its, its
• 39:05
  muckiness and it's violent. I don't think it is because I'm
• 39:07
  pretty sure there are some people alive at the end.
• 39:10
  You're right. No, but Trinicardi gets shot,
• 39:16
  doesn't she? She's in the lab with everyone
• 39:18
  else. Oh, yes.
• 39:20
  Oh. Boy, some people must There's
• 39:23
  there's a whole Hariman slave mark.
• 39:25
  And and the the mentor who doesn't like the noise?
• 39:32
  Let's go into episode 4 and do something that we're not going
• 39:37
  to be able to do very often on our hamster journey, and that is
• 39:40
  watch a companion die, maybe. Perhaps.
• 39:46
  I'll cut it there, OK.