Latest / Our Community, Our Mission / Ep #195 - Conversation with a Landlord: Meet Steve Vogel

Transcript

Ep #195 - Conversation with a Landlord: Meet Steve Vogel · Our Community, Our Mission

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day and your blessings and provisions.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: God, thank you for this time.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you for this conversation.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Lord, pray your blessing over it and all our listeners who hear it.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Father, may your peace be upon them today.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: In your holy name we pray, Amen.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: You're listening to Our Community, our mission, a podcast of the Topeka Rescue Mission here on Wednesday, October the 25th of 2023.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: This is podcast 195.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Good morning, Mary and Craball.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Good morning, how are you?
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I'm good, you know we're looking like a little rain.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, wouldn't that be wonderful.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it'd be great, I'll tell you the farm girl in me, it's begging for rain.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: We sure need it.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Maryam LaManna couldn't be here today, but you're here as Deputy Director of Supportive Services and you've got a few updates.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: And then I've got a quiz for you.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: You know how the quiz?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: goes right.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, you and your quizzes.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, We've been waiting for a very long time and we probably won't have time for your quiz?
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no time limit on this podcast of our community, especially if you've listened to it before, because it can go on for a long time.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, it absolutely can.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: You know, I think, mary, right now there's just so many things we can talk about, and I know, with our special guests today, we'll talk about different kinds of things that are going on in the community, but the other thing that we're really focused on right now is Christmas.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: You know, when you think about Thanksgiving just right around the corner, relatively speaking, and then you're already Christmas.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: And then you're at Christmas, Absolutely so I know United Way is starting their intake I believe it's today.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: It might have been yesterday, but I believe it's today, and so things are rolling to get people signed up for Christmas Bureau, and those are some of the people that we will adopt to try to help give them the kind of Christmas that they want.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: And so we've already posted on social media about needs that we have for food items that go out in the holiday meal packet, for Christmas gifts, for all the kinds of things that we need to be able to bless the folks that we adopt through Christmas Bureau, as well as then our guests at the Hope Center and the Kiddos at the Hope Center.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: And someone sheltered in the streets and sheltered.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And the men's?
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely you know, and Barry, we have about 45 kids staying with us every night now, and so we want to make sure that Christmas is really special for them.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mariam, any guesstimates at this point?
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I know each year it's going to be a variable, but how many do you, at this time, intend to adopt or provide Christmas for?
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, in terms of the number that we will adopt from the Christmas Bureau, we'll probably be close to 200 families, and then, of course, we've got 200 plus guests staying with us, and then we have our unsheltered neighbors.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So, all in all, my estimation is that we'll probably be serving well over 500 households 500 households.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, could be additional people.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Like a household Could be one person, it could be several people.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It could be six people, it could be seven people 500 and 600.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: number could be a thousand.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: There's a definite need.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: If somebody wants to help, how can they go to where to find how to help?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Sure, they can either call us at 785-354-1744 and ask for Susie she's our volunteer coordinator or they can go to our website and click on the volunteer button, or they can see our needs list there all different kinds of ways or they can press that Give Now button and support us financially if they would like us to do the shopping for them and those kinds of things.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: So if you're listening right now, that's trmonlineorg.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: That's trmonlineorg and you can explore, find out how to help.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: And is the Give Now button able to designate for Christmas yet?
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so if you're pairing this and you want to designate specifically for Christmas, that by the time if it's not there, it will be there today.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: It's going to be there shortly, shortly, that's right.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it is.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's seasonal kind of offering to be able to do that.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, sorry to put you on spot there, thanks for that Love you and parts that you're welcome.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, well, that's great, I mean it's.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Things are tough right now, especially for people facing many, many challenges in their lives.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, we've got global challenges going on, to say the least, and we've got some real safety concerns in our community, and the people in need are duly wondering does anybody care?
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And so people care all the time in Topeka.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Christmas is a special time of caring that we can then help people to understand that they are, they're, valued, and we also are really certain what's going to happen in regards to some different ordinances and regards to the unsheltered and where they're going to be at Christmas, and so we're trying to figure all that out right now and more more to come on that as we go forward.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: So we got a special guest that you and I really have become very fond of.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: He's a really cool dude.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: But before we do that, we've got to pause and talk about the special.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: You didn't talk long enough, mary.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: The specialness of October 25th in history.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: So today around the globe, we're celebrating world.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: What day.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: You know, I think I actually know the answer to this, because I think it might be because you're Italian right, oh, that threw me.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, no, because I was going to say I think it's national.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Well, national food day.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: No, I'm sorry.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: It's actually you're close, that's why I thought you were Italian.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: It's national pasta day.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, so do I see him Italian.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Could I be more German?
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: No, that's why I thought I thought you would certainly know this.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Well, apparently Mary is not Italian, you all.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: She grew up in a farm in Kansas, and so she definitely not from Italy, but anyway.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: So it's national world pasta day, so head down to your local Olive Garden and see if they know that too.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: So, but here's what you will know about Mary it's national.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: What day it's national, I care about?
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I care about you.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Maryam.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: She cares about me.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Steve, this is great.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: She cares about all of us.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: It's National I Care About you Day, Okay.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So if you this October 25th we're talking about here.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: So while you're eating your pasta, make sure that you care for people at the same time.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, All right, one national, other, oh, I think we can be done.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: No, no, we got one.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: No, this is really, this is really good.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: It's National Fine Arts Appreciation Day.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Oh Okay, I knew that you were into the fine arts, and so just one.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of facts around it, but I like this one, maryam, art competitions were once part of the Olympics.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Did you know that?
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: No, I did not.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Arts competitions, I mean we're, you know, downhill skiing, ski jumps, bobsledding for the winter stuff, swimming, racing, all those kind of things.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we're.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all that stuff.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Here's one of our more surprising art facts between the years of 1912 and 1948.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: That's about the time you remember that.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: And so medals were awarded for painting, sculpting, music, architecture and literature.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Olympic athletes get this were required to be amateurs in the arts for them to qualify for their other stuff.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I didn't know that.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I didn't either.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I wonder if Noto knows that.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I was just thinking about how lucky we are to have artists, and they could be Olympians.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're on the board of Noto, so I would go to them next time you have a board name and say did you guys know what October 25th was?
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I may send an email today.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think that would be good and give me credit for it.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: No, never mind, don't give me credit.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: They might argue the fact, but anyway.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So we have been blessed to have some great guests and gentlemen that we've gotten to know here in the last few months.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: More and you've spoken to his group before is Steve Vogel, and he is the president of the Shawnee County Landlord Association.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Welcome to our community, our mission, steve.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're very welcome.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Well, Steve, talk to us about yourself a little bit and what your personal involvement in community, and then talk about the Shawnee County Landlord Association.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: What is it so?
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: First of all, who's Steve Vogel?
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm 69 years old.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: I've been in the Topeka area my whole life.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: I retired from AT&T after a 35-year career in 2016.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: My wife and I became landlords.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: It was my midlife crisis when I was about 54 years old, so we've been doing this around 15 years and we started off right away.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: As soon as we became landlords, we joined the Shawnee County Landlord Association and they were just a lifeline for us, because we got off to a very, very rough start, which I won't get into, but there were always a group of folks that you could meet and ask questions and they weren't trying to sell you anything.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: And that's why I've become dedicated, because we're all volunteers.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: No one gets paid and I really enjoy interacting with the other landlords.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: If you talk to 100 landlords, you find out that no two of them do anything the same, and then, as a part of that, I have become somewhat involved in the city activities and doing things like this in a way that I never thought I would have, but I actually really enjoy it.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: I know the folks here at TRM, without fail, are just wonderful people, thank you.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: I've gotten to know a few of them and just really enjoy interacting with them, and I hope I can add something to the conversation today.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely you can't.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: You know, steve, for just kind of the simple-minded like me, you become a landlord, you buy property, you rent it, but what could be complicated with that?
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: You know that's a really good question.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: It's a very simple business, but it's definitely not easy.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: That's what we found out when we One of the things that happened to us.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: We thought when we bought our first three houses, we bought them as a package and they all had tenants and I thought, man, what could be better than this?
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Well, it didn't turn out so hot.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: So, gather, maybe some tenants are really great tenants and maybe some aren't so much.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: That's very well put.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Probably the right way to put it right.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: The goal of every landlord in the world is to find good tenants that will pay their rent on time and take good care of your property and be a good neighbor, which is what really all I ask of any tenant.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: But some folks don't seem to think along those lines.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: So, Steve, how many landlords would you guess are in Shawnee County and that's a wildcard question there.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: That's a really, really good question.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: A few years ago, when we were involved with the city and I heard the figure of 8,000 and I don't have any idea if that's true.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure where that came from, but I think there is about.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: If you look at the numbers, I think the housing density I think is about 2.3 people per door or per household.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: So I'm just estimating there's probably about 25,000 rental units and that would include like one apartment, and a hundred-unit apartment complex would be one household, but about 25,000.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: And so I don't have any data to back this up.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: But I think the overwhelming majority in terms of numbers are probably people who I would term accidental landlords.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: They may be inherited a house from a relative or they're renting out a house that they were unable to sell.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: So I think the vast majority of landlords probably have less than five properties.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: But that 8,000 figure I just heard that I don't have any way to back that up.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: But 25,000 potential units would take quite a number of people to be managing those, whether it's that one and done or multiple properties, and so, yeah, I don't know.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of questions coming out of my mind.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: So how many people are involved in the Shawnee County Landlord's Association?
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Probably about 70 to 75.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: So I guess when you look at that in those terms, we're a very, very small percent and also we have a lot of room to grow, yeah well good.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: So as a landlord, you walked into this and got three properties.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: We're good to go, we've got people paying rent but wouldn't work out so much.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: So there's those complications of the relationships and the kind of people you're renting to and things that you have to set up.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: You have to obviously take care of the property to make sure it meets code and then it's livable and that people want to live there.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: What have you found out that is pro and con about regulations to be a landlord?
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: That's a really good question.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: I think if a landlord comes at this acting in good faith, I don't think there's really that much of a problem in this area.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I think overall Kansas has some of the best landlord tenant laws in the whole country.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: But we've had a few issues with code enforcement and that usually has to do with what I call uneven enforcement.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: If you talk to a group of landlords, like at our meeting, they'll tell you those stories all day.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: But, like I say, I think if a person comes into this with a good spirit and acting in good faith, I don't think there's really that much of a problem.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So if they're with good intentions, the regulations aren't overbearing.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: They're kind of there for good purposes, you would say.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: I think there's always good intent.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: There's always going to be a group of people who are going to impose new regulations on landlords, and I always have a couple of questions that I want to ask them how are you going, what are you going to do about enforcement?
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: How are you going to do this enforcement?
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: And also, can you give me examples of other cities that have had these regulations that they've done any good?
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: And I think that you'll see that a lot of the cities who have very, very strict landlord regulations don't have any better outcomes or maybe in a lot of cases, worse outcomes than this area does.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: I could give you some examples of that if you'd like.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah sure, I mean, what do we need to know?
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: Well, okay, I'll give you one example that I like in the Topeka Housing Study a few years ago, which I was very, very critical of.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: But they even said in there that there was a sentence in there that said we want to have mandatory inspections in order to reduce evictions.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: So I thought, well, I'm going to look that up.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: So I'm sure you're probably familiar with Matt Desmond and evicted I'm assuming you are.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: I'm surprised, yeah, yeah, he wrote I believe they call it ethnography, where you live amongst the people that you're studying.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: But he did that for several years.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: But he started his own.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: It's called Eviction Lab and you can get on their website.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: So I did and I thought, okay, what are the give me like the top 50 cities with the highest percentages or rates of evictions?
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: So I thought, well, I'm just going to start down there and I'm going to just do a little bit of research on my own.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: So I did, I took the top.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I did, I think, for like 30 cities and thought I'm going to look at their rate of eviction.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Then I also want to look at their landlord or about their landlord regulations, and I found out that eight of the top 10 cities with the highest rates of eviction had very strict mandatory inspection programs.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: So that tells me, to me that was just this Tipeka Housing Study.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: It was very, very sloppy research trying to do that cause and effect of mandatory inspections, you know any evictions.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: So do you think that maybe those mandatory inspections were then revealing more problems?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Is that why there was higher eviction rate?
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: That I don't know.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: I just don't know.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: I think that I always ask that, just like I've asked about you know the things on the Homelessness Committee about show me an example of something that works.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: You know you want to do this, they've tried it, tell me what cities they've done this in and tell me how it's working, and I just don't think you're going to find eviction problems.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: You're going to find any problems in any city in the country and I just have never seen any evidence that a real strict regulations on landlords does any good.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: There's a landlord association and we've always been a proponent of code.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Enforcement is the tool that can be used, because any occupant of any property, which includes a tenant, can request for the city to come in and inspect the interior or the exterior of their dwelling, and I just think that that's a very good tool that can be used.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, maryam, you got a chance to speak to Steve's group the other day.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: And you talked about the rescue mission, the homeless issues in large.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: What was your experience?
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: My experience was wonderful.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: They were very eager to hear what I had to say.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: They were also great about asking very specific questions.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: We, for our housing program, we depend on really excellent relationships with the landlords.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about that because you oversaw the housing program for a while and now it's under a different apartment, but how important is that?
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: To move people out of shelter, out of homelessness, homeless prevention, to have good relationships with your landlords.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: It's essential.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, if we, as the Topeka Rescue Mission and those that are trying to help people find housing, we have to have good relationships with the landlords because we need to know what they're experiencing Right.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: So we want people to be successful in housing and that means they have to be good tenants, and so if we don't know what some of the challenges might be with some of the folks that we're placing into housing and assisting with finding housing, then we won't be able to be very good resources to them.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: So having relationships with the landlords where they're willing to call us and say look, we've got a problem or we see a problem coming, that makes it possible for us to then reach out to that individual that is the tenant and say, okay, how can we help you do better?
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: What are the challenges you're experiencing?
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: And honestly, barry, I just feel like it's so important that we know the perspective of the landlords, absolutely.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: You know what has happened to them.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: That may cause them to be more resistant or leery about renting to some of the folks that we're trying to place in housing and, frankly, it's understandable why they might have concerns or reservations, but I think as the relationships have developed, we've been able to reassure them that we want to advocate on both sides of this relationship, not just on the side for the people that we're placing.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I think I've heard you say one word maybe five or six times relationships.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: It's all about relationships, Steve, your landlord association about relationships and it's not just about it, oh absolutely, and so the value of the landlords to place, like to peak a rescue mission, having relationships over money or over policy, or over entitlement or over rental availability.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Probably Trump saw that done.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I would hardly agree with that.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what has been your experience or what have you heard about the relationships that you've experienced or others have had with the Tpeak Rescue Mission Housing Program.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll be honest, I really haven't heard that much until lately.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: By the way did a very, very good job when she spoke to our group, but we just learned a lot more about it.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: I think there are so many misconceptions about it.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: But no, I think that, like you say, building the relationships and finding out more.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Don't let somebody's brother in law told you about the TRM Housing Program.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Be your guide.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: I know you have a very open door as far as answering questions and anybody can reach out to you to find out is this true or that true, or how do I get involved with this?
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: So no, I agree, the relationships is a great thing.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: And one thing, barry, I think that we've learned through building these relationships is that one of the challenges is that people don't necessarily I'm going to give credit to people the credit here they don't necessarily know how to keep a good household from a cleanliness perspective, from how to take care of things.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: So what we've looked at then here, while people are still in the shelter, is having classes about that.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Getting them ready, getting them ready to move into housing.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: So hearing from the landlords that this cleanliness piece and taking care of things and not leaving food out so that then bugs and stuff come into the apartments, right, that then there is ways that if we can train and educate people on that, well they're obviously then going to be a better tenant, or at least have the opportunity to be a better tenant.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: And even if they've just never been raised that way, they've never had that experience in learning.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: What does it take to keep your house in order?
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Maryam, the track record that you've experienced.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: We started this relationship on creating a new program partnering with the city some of those ESG funds to be able to rehouse folks.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: So a couple of things.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: One is to date, since that started in latter part of 2020, I want to say, with a official Topeka Rescue Mission housing program.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: that's not only just filtering money through, but case management, training people on the front end, helping to be there for at least a year, at least a year as case management after they've been into the housing to cover some of those things.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: How many approximately people have been rehoused?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: So I, you know, so we've done it in a couple of ways right.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: So we've assisted people to get into housing and helped provide them with financial assistance.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And then there's others that we've just assisted with finding the housing, that they didn't need financial assistance with us at the same level Others do, and so I would say, all total, we are nearing 600 households over this many number of years.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: And guess how many people that might translate into.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, gosh well, a minimum right Like a double or 1200, right 1200 people who were experiencing homelessness or on the verge of becoming homeless.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Right that you were able to then rehouse because of relationships with guys like Steve.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: And so you could have relationships, relationships, and be able to have a available phone number that a landlord could call up and say I've got a problem over here.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: We come take care of this, Hopefully never having to have that call.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: But if you do have to have that call, there's a, there's a channel there.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: So of the maybe 1200, how many have it not worked out for?
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: You know it's considering the population that we're talking about here, people that have been homeless and some who have been homeless for a very long period of time.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: We are probably looking at somewhere between 75 and 80% success rate over all of these years, All these years.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you something that has made this.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: I know there were people staying in housing, not getting evicted, not coming back into homelessness, exactly.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of taking into consideration too, really only looking at things post August of 2021.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: , Because prior to that there was a moratorium on evictions and so that made it look a little bit different.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: So now really taking a look at, okay, now that life is somewhat back to normal, now, now what are we looking at and what are some of the challenges of having people stay in housing?
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So let's just say 75% of the 1200 that were rehoused are still in housing today.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: That might be on the streets today.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Otherwise would likely I think we can say could likely be back on the street.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So that that's, that's something to consider keeping it going because that's, and maybe in the future, keeping it going.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: But again, steve, it comes back to this, this open door that your association and others have said yeah, we want to, we want to see what we can do together and that kind of dovetails into you were contacted by the city to come and be a part of what's called the innovation to address homelessness in the community, bringing in a consultant and you and I both are on what we call the auxiliary team or the B team, so there's a core team that they meet every week on zoom and then you and I are called in as expert witnesses or whatever to the scene.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Steve, what, what is what did you learned personally that that is beneficial and then maybe could be beneficial because of you being president.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Landlord association out of these discussions.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: That's a good question.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I think probably the main thing personal thing for me that I've learned is you're best off throwing any kind of preconceptions that you had out the window because the complexity of this problem is so great.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: So I find it amusing that whenever you talk to somebody about the homeless problem, they've got the answer.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: A little couple of them I just got a chocolate.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: I usually don't say too much, maybe just nod my head in agreement.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's so many, so many layers, so many complexities.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: I know that one of the things that I asked at the last meeting that we I know that, barry, that you and I attended along with the other members of the auxiliary team I asked the question can anybody give me an example of programs that have worked in other cities?
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: And nobody said anything.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: So I mean that told me a lot.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: I'm an absolute firm believer in that.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: You have to keep trying, you have to keep pushing forward.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: But I just think it's real important not to get expectations too high.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: But no, we've got some terrific people working on this.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: I really hope they can come up with some good solutions.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I think they're going in a positive direction here, and one of the reasons is a guy like you being invited to the table.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: You are on the ground, so to speak, with being a landlord.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: You know firsthand the complexities, the challenges and the opportunities of that, and also you're associated with other people that this affects, because without housing, there's always going to be homelessness.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: The question is what kind of housing and how do we support that to be able to help people?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Maryam, you mentioned how some people need help with some basic life skills.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: If you've been living outdoors and some of our unsheltered neighbors have been living outdoors for years, if not decades they've got a certain way of doing business without any running water, without any refrigeration, without any trash cans, without any toilets, those kind of things, and then they go from that into housing.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: It's not just like, oh, everything's going to be okay now and then.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: For a person who even wants to take the chance of being a landlord and it really it's, and I know this from guys like you it's more than just a second career for income.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: It is a skill.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I would call it a calling, that this is what I'm supposed to do while I'm on the earth, one of my things I'm called to do, or I get to do, or I should do, or whatever you want to phrase it.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: That is an essential component of healthy community and so because of that and the relationships and what you want to do to help, we've got to bring people like you to the table.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: We've got to get that perspective to hear you and you to hear the other thoughts here, to be able to do this in what we would call a healthy complete package.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: You know, and I think one thing I have always appreciated about Steve and that I appreciated so much about the landlord association is that they're willing to talk to us about the challenges they have, because it's not easy.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: It's like what you said if people have been living outdoors for a long time, they just are looking at things in a different way, and so how can we now help make sure that they can transition into what we all consider normal right, a normal way to live, a normal way to be housed?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: How can we do that?
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And, frankly, we have to listen to the landlords and what they experienced, because they have had some horrible experiences and we know that not everyone will be successful, but how can we help more people be successful?
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Steve, you talked about layers.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: We're talking about maybe what we call chronic homelessness been out there for a long time, certain ways of doing life but then we add on to maybe what we call serious mental health condition, serious drug addiction, serious trauma from different experiences as they've had in their life.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: From your position here, you want to help.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: You obviously are giving of your time to be involved in these discussions and maybe a plan that will come up out of this.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: What would help landlords with those multiple layers?
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Obviously they can't be mental health professionals and drug counselors and those kind of things but what would help you all to feel better about being a part of the solution in regards to the complexities that just a few that we've talked about?
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: You asked really good questions.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: We don't prep people ahead of time so it's authentic.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: No, I think it's the relationships.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: I think education, finding out more about it.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Barry, you brought up a very, very good point.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: We're in some ways, similar to the police.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: We're not mental health professionals, we're not bankers, we're not teachers.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: We provide housing.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's what we do, but I think the education part of it is a good thing, and I do want to add something, maybe, to what Miriam said too.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: I have been very surprised with the level of interest from landlords about the homelessness situation.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: It's been a few years ago but when Impact Avenues was first firing up in the Topeka area, we had them speak at one of our meetings and they even told us usually in the communities that we work with we have to go hat and hand begging the landlords to what they can do for us and be part of the program.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: But we invited them and again I was very surprised.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: There's always going to be some people who were just completely dismiss it out of hand, but I was surprised at the number of people back then and to accommodate the folks with Impact Avenues and also with TRM and who continue to do so.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So I just think that's what I do understand from other communities is they really don't have positive relationships and sometimes what they do is they go to because you're a landlord, you're required to do this or required to do that and there's kind of a breaking of the relationship here.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: But we don't have to do that here and I think a lot of that's because guys like you, because you really do want to know everything you can to do something good and give yourself some credit for that.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Obviously, not everybody feels that way, but I think that what we've experienced, Maryam, has been really positive relationship with the landlords.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's the same situation that we look at when we're trying to help people understand who the homeless are.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: There is this small group of folks that are difficult, and there is a big majority that is not, and I think it's the same with landlords.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: There is this small group of folks that are difficult, as landlords, to deal with, and then there's all these others that really want to be partners in the community, that want to do the best they can, that want to be educated, that want to know real situations.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: So I think it's just the same way that we feel about when people are making generalized comments about people who are experiencing homelessness.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: It's the same situation with landlords.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Most of the landlords are wonderful people and trying to do the right kind of thing, and they're business people too.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: This is income for them, and we can't forget that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: And they're taxpayers, right, and they've got to have LLCs and all that kind of stuff to deal with Exactly All that number stuff.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: All that number stuff, steve, what can the community do for landlords to help them with what is determined to be a need for more affordable housing, a need to address this issue of chronic homelessness?
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: What can?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Obviously, to pick a rescue mission is hand in glove with you, but what can the community at large do to help landlords be successful in their part of this?
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: That's another good question.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: I knew that was going on.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think just more of an understanding I've kind of developed a thick skin.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, you hear the birds slum Lord, just thrown around.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Especially, I've been to a lot of NIA meetings and landlords don't always have the best reputation.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: But I agree with and thank you, maryam, for saying that Most of us I just call them mom and pop landlords.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: That's who I deal with.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: I think most of them don't try to gouge people on rent, but I think it's just keeping the word out there, just realizing that we're people just like they are.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just let them know that we're just trying to make maybe some retirement income for ourselves or a supplemental income.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: We don't have any ill intent.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: There is one thing I guess I call them macro trends, but there's a lot more what I call corporate landlords.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: I personally don't think that's healthy and I'm not saying anything against them.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: They have a right to do that too.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: But they figured out that you can make a lot of money being a landlord and I think many of them they don't have that relationship.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: It's just numbers on their spreadsheet.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Well I think that's a good point is that it's harder to develop a relationship with a corporation than it is with a person, and so maybe the corporate folks will have good management that we can have a relationship with.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: But without that it's just academic and that's not going to solve this problem.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: It really has to be what we're doing here right now and what we do before now and what we do after now in regards to those relationships, and I think we're all very grateful that there's an openness.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: And I want to say that's one of the things that I'm I've really gotten kind of passionate about is I really do believe that we need to protect the interests of the mom and pop landlords.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: That's good.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: I think it's just absolutely vital All of the country, not just here.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's harder to get a hold of a corporate company that's in Chicago and talk about a problem here than it is to call a member of the Shawnee County Landlord Association.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Personal phone, cell swap numbers, texting, whatever to say.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: We got a deal here that gets it done so much greater.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think that again, we don't want to say you corporate folks, go somewhere else, because that would be a mistake.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: But that relationship piece we can't get around it and we shouldn't, and so we've got to keep those things healthy.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Steve, thank you for being here today.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Is there anything else you'd like for people to know about you?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: The issue of homelessness.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: The Shawnee County Landlord Association.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: No.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Again, thanks for having me.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: I hope to continue to be involved in the conversation about homelessness, about the committee that we're on.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to see what develops on that and I want to try to be around to be available for a resource.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: So anyway, thanks again.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: There's two people in this room that aren't going to let you get too far away, so you're definitely going to be tapped into as an expert and a resource.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Steve, thank you for your volunteer position with Shawnee County Landlords, being a great representative of them, as well as places like Topeka Rescue Mission and this whole issue of homelessness.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: So thank you for who you are and thank you for being a friend and thank you for being here today.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: You're very welcome.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for listening to our community, our mission.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: You've heard from Steve Vogel.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: He's a president of the Shawnee County Landlord Association.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: He is also one of those experts they're tapping into in regards to the bigger homeless issue here in our community and we've got some hope that we can really help our neighbors in need and continue to progress towards a healthier community.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: If you'd like more information about the Topeka Rescue Mission, you can go to trmonlineorg.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: That's trmonlineorg.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: If you'd like to promote our community, our mission podcast, you can subscribe, rate or share it.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you again for listening to our community, our mission MUSIC.