Latest / Smart Business Growth with Nicky Miklós / Courageous Leadership: Setting Standards in the Workplace

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Courageous Leadership: Setting Standards in the Workplace · Smart Business Growth with Nicky Miklós

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrive in Business Together with Nikki and Ness.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of country, the Yagara and Bannerong people of Brisbane and Melbourne respectively, where Nikki and I both work and live.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Ness, I know that one of your most favourite quotes when it comes to holding a standard in business, really looking at the standards we have from a culture point of view as well as just behaviour well, not just as well as behaviour in the business is the standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I have heard you say that so many times.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Yep, it's one of your favourites.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yep, I'm curious.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Did you know?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I did a little bit of research for this podcast episode and I was very excited by this story that came up, and I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but did you know that this quote was actually famously said in an anti-misogyny speech by a gentleman called Lieutenant General David Morrison?
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Have you?
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: heard of this.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: No, I haven't Tell me more.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Goodness, I couldn't believe it.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I was like what.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: So listeners, come along on the journey with us, because today we're going to talk about holding standards in the culture that we're providing, that we're creating in business, and there could not be a better example than this.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: So, lieutenant General David Morrison I might just call him David Morrison from here on in was said to be a huge advocate for supporting women in military, so he was in the Australian armed forces and his speechwriter actually, this is just a point of interest came out as transgender.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Now, this was around back in 2013.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Her name is Kate McGregor.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: She's also very successful in her own right and David actually refused her resignation when she came out, which I thought was cool to hear, particularly back in those days.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: So in 2013, kate wrote a speech and David said it.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: There was a call out message.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: It was on YouTube.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I haven't actually heard it, but I've seen snippets of it and David talked about and told Army personnel that if they were not willing to respect and work with women in the Army, they should get out.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: So this was quite a famous speech, is my understanding.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Wow, and this is where he talked about, the standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: And this message came about because there was a lot of repeated high profile incidents of unacceptable behavior towards women serving in the Army really atrocious emails, all sorts of things happening and he said and told anyone not willing to work with women and accept them as equals that there is no place for you amongst this band of brothers and sisters.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: So I'm like wow, that is cool, that is amazing.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Wow, that is I've got to take a moment to let that sink in.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: That's I can't think of a more, I don't even know what word to use.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: But the Army to implement something like that.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I mean I want to say courage, but the leadership that man showed to women, transgender people, everybody in that moment in a position of power to really set a standard, that is pretty amazing.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and I think leadership is the right word there.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: That fits, because we can talk about courage and stepping up and being brave.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: But it has to be done right, Because this is equal rights, this is giving people the opportunity to serve, and literally serve in the army or to serve in your business.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: And it does take, Augusto, it takes some gumption to be able to set a standard and to set that standard.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: And what?
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Look, I've never been in the army but that masculine and that toxic masculinity, I'm sure is quite prevalent or has been quite prevalent there.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: So to be able to stand up and do that.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: So when we talk about and we talked about really today sharing with our listeners this concept of holding standards within our culture, within our business, first of all that quote came to me and then, when I heard this story, I was like, wow, what a great example.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Even if the odds are stacked against you, even if it feels impossible, even if it feels scary, that is such a great example of holding to a standard.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Holding to that standard, yeah.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: And I know that when I talk to leaders about this in businesses and it's that whole point around, it's got to be the thing that you do, no matter whether somebody's watching you or not.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: So if it's about we have a standard around cleanliness and you're running late and you just wanna leave the office because you've been there an extra two hours and you just wanna get out and you walk past a bin that's overflowing, that's the litmus test, isn't it?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: That's the moment in time you just go, I'll leave it for someone else or I'll do it myself.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: And so I would imagine what he was doing by making that statement was allowing people to call out that behavior, to be able to say actually nervous and all potentially, no, no, no, that's not how we do things around here.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: It's not okay for you to send that email or that kind of thing, to have the permission and I think that is such an important message to send leaders and business owners, because we're ultimately at that highest level within the business or within the team.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: That's where we are the example.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: That's where what we have to say, the way that we support decisions, the way that we conduct ourselves, matters so much for other people to know that we're serious about that.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: That's what I get from that.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: And he was serious about it.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Really serious about it and also it's that whole concept of these.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Are our values.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Quality, as this example, might be a value, but is it actually being lived, breathed?
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Do the behaviors within the business support that?
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: It's that whole.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: It's really easy to have a bunch of values stuck on the wall.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Are your team members actually adhering to what those values are?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And so often we say this is gonna be a value, but is it actually being present and shown within the business?
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: And, as you said, as a leader, we have to hold ourselves and the people around us to account, and it could be seeing rubbish in the bin, it could be hearing a conversation that's happening.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: That's inappropriate so many different ways.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: When we look at standards, actually, let's talk about what actually is a standard.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: What are we talking about here?
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: What would you define as when we're talking about standards in the business?
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: How would you define that?
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: To me it's the non-negotiables around behavior.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: So this is what's accepted and what's not accepted.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I think there's KPIs and there's all those measures and stuff, but I believe this is about the people.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know what do you think?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I think it does come down to the behavior, and even like KPIs, for example, kpis are a measure of success, but how you show up to do those KPIs could also be a standard.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Is it with attitude, is it begrudging, is it winging at the fact that there's KPIs, or is it embracing that this is a way of working of the business?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: And ultimately it does come down to human behavior.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: For sure so.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Ness, what do you think are the main reasons?
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Because holding a standard isn't always easy and again, why that's such a great example to reflect on.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: We weren't there, but I would assume that there were times where it was not easy.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and why do people let standards slip in business?
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: And, for those of you listening, start reflecting.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Do you resonate with some of these reasons that we're going to share?
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Hmm?
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Look, I think one of them can be about the perhaps the leadership team or the leader of the business owner.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: It's in their head.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: They haven't really, especially if the business is growing quickly and like stuck, stuck doing all the things there's so many things that somebody has to do if they haven't quite mastered the art of being able to delegate well and really have that sense of working on the important things in the business rather than just doing and being on that mouse wheel.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: And so I think that it's really important to articulate what those standards are.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: And this is a conversation that comes out of what is our, what are our values, not just to stick on the wall but then to be able to talk about.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Once we understand the values, we can talk about the behaviors we want to see with those values that align to them.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: And so when we say we want people to achieve a particular way of being, a particular standard, there has to be a consequence to that not happening.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: So one is it articulated, but then, two, what sometimes happens is we don't know what the consequence is.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: So we go oh, it's too hard, I haven't actually thought through that, or now I'm going to have a really difficult conversation and I don't have time for that or I'm not prepared for that.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to park that for another week so that I can have that conversation, just like all of the things that get in our way and that, and unfortunately, what happens when we allow ourselves to succumb to that way of thinking is everybody else has seen it, everybody else has acknowledged that.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so it's like an unwritten ground rule.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: We say that's what we do here, but the reality is on the floor.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: This is what we really do, and so just on that.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: So you do still have a standard, but the standard has dropped.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the measure of what that standard is, or that, has completely changed.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: In that scenario, are you stuck in the busy trap or on Juggle Street being all things to all people, despite having a team?
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Or perhaps your business is feeling chaotic?
• 9:37
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• 9:48
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• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I think for some leaders out there, if they know that the senior person in the business is not behind them, that's gone out on a big limb.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Imagine if there was somebody in his situation, above him, that didn't believe in that.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, would he have said all that.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wouldn't it be great to be a fly on the wall.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Fly on the wall, not in the wall.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really important point about the clarity as well, because I think about some of the busy business owners that we work with and that we know who they just ask.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: You are so busy, you're listening, you are so busy and you can't assume that because you think is something obvious that somebody else will, and particularly because you have a whole team varying levels of experience, varying levels of background, varying levels of maturity or work experience when I say maturity, work, maturity so you cannot assume that what is an obvious standard to you in your head is understood by everybody.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: And if you don't have that clarity to begin with, it's even harder because you are time poor.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I hate that statement.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: You don't have a lot of time, so you have to.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: That's a really good starting point.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, so then it might be that it's easier.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: You don't have time to have that conversation with somebody to say that's not the standard.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: So I think some of the other things are is that the team might be just a little bit lazy or the leader could be a little bit lazy.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: You said before there could be a lack of maturity, there could be a different definition.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: So what's the standard that we want to set in the workplace?
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: If we haven't articulated that well, people are going to interpret that in different ways.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: So we help each other out around here.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: That's the standard that we maintain.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: It's all about teamwork, and then you get somebody who doesn't, and there's no process or structure around how we manage that, because that person's idea of teamwork either there may just be a sole operator, they may not notice that everybody else has answered the phone and they never do so.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: There's so many layers around it where leadership's got to come in and be really strong, and that's the role of us as leaders to be able to help people with the standard, because the benefit of putting investing the time, effort and energy in this space is that you get the culture and the team that are all aligned, and that allows for so many other benefits within the business around peak performance and around being able to hold responsibility and accountability for meeting their role, their KPIs.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: All of those are such a positive flow on impact that this thinking around I'm too busy for it.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: It's going to be too uncomfortable conversation.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: That person's going to take me forever to try and explain it to them.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I don't have time.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: All of those excuses actually holding you back from what's possible and that amazing culture that you could have, I think the key point of that is, if you can have this in place, you, as the business owner, can step back.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: You are not as reliant If you are holding to the standards and calling people out.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: If your leaders are strong, doing strong leadership, not lazy leadership and just ignoring things, then you can step back.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And that's what this whole point of this conversation is, because when your team performing at peak performance and high performance, you actually can not be as relied upon within that team to hold the standard.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: So again, I want you to think about am I the only one holding a standard in the business?
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Are my leaders, or is it reliant on me?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Is the standard being upheld when I'm around but not when I'm not?
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I think another point to this and another key reason that is important to mention as to why you might be letting standards slide or your leaders might be letting standard slide.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: That's a bit of a mouthful If we reflect on Stephen Cartman's Dreaded Drama Triangle, which we've talked about previously in the episodes with Leah Meathor, and there's three roles that we all fall into at different times.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: But if you're, or your leaders are, stuck in one of these roles in interactions with your people, then you absolutely can let these standards slide.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: For example, if you're a rescuer, the rescuer is thinking oh poor you.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Oh no, it's okay, I don't want to be mean, I don't want to cause conflict.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Now again, remember you as the business owner may or may not be feeling this way, but your leaders might be, or you might be as well.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So then we let people off the hook.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: The rescuers let people off the hook.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: It could be that you're stepping into a victim role, which is very much around.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, nothing I do changes it anyway.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: What's the point?
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: It's all happening.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I've got no control in this situation.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: We've all been there.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I just I can't even because nothing's going to change.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: What's the point?
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Always happens to me and oh, that whole.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: And then there's the aggressor.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe you've tried, or maybe your leader has tried, but that hasn't.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: It's in a bit of a dysfunctional way.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: It hasn't hit the mark.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: So it's become a cross, it's come across as more aggressive.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: How dare they know better?
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And this happens a lot in conversations with business owners or leaders.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: And the question is hang on a second.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Do they actually know that's a standard to uphold?
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: How dare they do this, don't they know?
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Do they know?
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: That's the first step, and so it's almost.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: You fall into a bit of a bully phase.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: So you could be, or your leaders could be, in one of those roles, which is actually what is contributing to the standards not being met.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: But unless there is a way out, because, also, we know that David Emerald created the empowerment dynamic.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So how would that?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: flip, how would they turn around?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: He did, and it's a great model, because when you flip from the rescuer to the coach, it's around guiding and creating clarity for the other person through questions.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: So what's always fascinated me around human behavior is there's a driver behind it, and so if somebody has overlooked a standard, taking that aggressor role and yelling at them is not necessarily going to get them to change.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Hello, any parents out there in the world who've had children and never got them to do anything you want them to do.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So it really is about the leaders becoming really curious around that.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: So what is it about the standard that that person doesn't understand, or how do they interpret what that standard is, or what was it that stopped them from being able to do that?
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: What was the barrier?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: So I think that it takes a level of curiosity to be able to put yourself in someone else's shoes in order to be able to really understand what's going on here, because the chances are, if one person in your team has misunderstood it or has a different interpretation of it, then that might not be the only one.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: So it can give you the ability to understand what you need to do next in order to be able to bring everyone up to that standard.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I think that when we move from that sort of victimhood and we take some responsibility and we become the creator of what's going on in the future, it's stepping into choice and looking at what's within our circle of influence and our circle of control.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: So if we are somebody who does feel like what's the point?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Because I'm going to say something but no one's going to back me up and everyone's just going to do the same behavior tomorrow, so why would I bust my gut trying to figure this out?
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: It really then becomes okay, what can I control?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I can control my standards and I can control how I approach others about if they're not meeting the standard, how they respond.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: You can't control that, but you can be true to who you want to be as a leader and make sure that you are upholding it, that you are calling it out and that you are not walking by it.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And then I think when we move from that aggressor, that frustrated, just do it statement which doesn't bring anyone on board, it becomes there needs to be an element of being the truth teller around it, but also being honest and taking action.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: And so taking action can look different depending on what the barriers that are coming up are.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Like I said, it could be around.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: They all link getting curious about really staying true to it, and maybe for some leaders, it's about going up and challenging the leader above them or the business owner above them, and so, hey, this is really hard for me to say, but I actually saw you walk past the rubbish bin and people get nervous about being able to do that on that hierarchy up because they think that they're going to be potentially in threat by calling out somebody who's more senior than them in the business.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: So I think there is definitely a way to flip it around.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: But, as we started in this conversation with, when you were talking about was it David?
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: When you were talking about David, I said courage initially, but it's actually leadership.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's making the choice to be the leader that you want to be in the business.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: That doesn't accept a standard like that, and I think you've got to buy into that as well.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: You've got to understand why it matters, because, also, when it's about leadership, it's not about you anymore, so it's not about you being comfortable, and I think that's why we stumbled a little bit on, like the courage.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, for some people different conversations will take some courage, but when you're stepping into leadership, no longer about I'm uncomfortable, so I won't say anything.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Whether you're comfortable or not it doesn't matter, because it's the great of good.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: It's looking at what is that environment that we're creating and how do we create a safe space for all?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And yes, we might give an example of the rubbish bin, but again, it's that subtleties of language and what we say versus what we do, and what's that message that we're sending.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Actually, if we looked at that hypothetical what passed the rubbish bin, it is comparable to somebody, a leader, saying that we're in a safe space where we embrace whatever the values might be.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Hang on, that wasn't true.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: So maybe the other thing wasn't true.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Like the rubbish bin might seem inconsequential, small little, but how we do anything is how we do everything.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: So for the really serious conversations, there can be a bit of mistrust there.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: So we've really got to be aware of this and, as a leader, step into those much more resourceful roles of a coach, a creator, a challenger, and not let it be about us Step into the discomfort if that's what's needed.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: So what do you think is a good action then, ness, for today's listeners.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: OK.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: So this one might out you a bit, but I really want you to be honest with yourself and consider what are the standards that you're walking past?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Standards in your business, standards in your personal life?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: What are you allowing by the fact that you're not addressing it?
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: You got me thinking and then I think it's about not us telling you what to do, but deciding what is the action that you need to take within 24 hours around that thing that you're walking past.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Because I can guarantee, if I think about this from even my own perspective, in life, not just at work there are standards that I do walk past, and it's that you've got to constantly come back to.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Who do I want to be?
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: And I really I really aim to do that and I really aim to be setting a standard around who I want to be with my friendship group and with people that I communicate with, but sometimes I let that slip.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: So if I was to be honest with myself, then I would want to make an action in the next 24 hours.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: It backs up that standard that I want to hold for myself and for those around me.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: So maybe we even say look at it in business and look at it in personal, so you're not letting yourself off the hook in one or the other, you're looking at each one might be easier than the other to swallow, so we want to make sure that you're challenging yourself here Because, again, this is what's going to be able to create the ripple effect in your business.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us again today.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: We cannot wait to be in your listening ears again next week.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, see you.
• 21:52
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• 21:54
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• 21:58
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• 22:05
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