Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Kayaks heading out to search Leon River after items 'connected to Vanessa Guillen' spotted by witness

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Kayaks heading out to search Leon River after items 'connected to Vanessa Guillen' spotted by witness · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: In the last hours of Bombshell in the search for
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Speaker 1: a gorgeous twenty year old fort Hood soldier Vanessa. Again,
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Speaker 1: we now know that in the last hours, remains have
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Speaker 1: been found another body apparently found in the area near
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Speaker 1: fort Hood where another young soldier has been found dead
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Speaker 1: and buried. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What does it
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Speaker 1: mean in the search for Vanessa. I'm Nancy Grace. This
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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
0:50
Speaker 1: on Fox Nation and series x M one eleven. First
0:54
Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at ABC thirteen.
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Speaker 1: Houston Colleen Police are investigating if Moore remains were found
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Speaker 1: near the site where the remains of a missing Forthood
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Speaker 1: soldier were found earlier this month. Now, these remains were
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Speaker 1: reportedly found within walking distance of where investigators found the
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Speaker 1: body of Private Gregory Wendell Morales on June nineteenth. Now,
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Speaker 1: he had been missing from Forthood since August. His cause
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Speaker 1: of death is under investigation, but they have said they
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Speaker 1: suspect foul play. The remains found yesterday have been sent
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Speaker 1: to the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences in Dallas. The
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Speaker 1: discovery was made as Texas equist was looking for another
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Speaker 1: missing Forthood soldier Private first class Faness again, Gian was
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Speaker 1: last seen April twenty second on base. However, officials have
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Speaker 1: not yet said if these cases are connected. Well, of
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Speaker 1: course there's foul play. We're not idiots. How could the
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Speaker 1: soldier Gregory with deel moralice what diav natural causes and
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Speaker 1: then bury himself out in the middle of nowhere a
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Speaker 1: stone's throw from Fort Hood, one of the biggest army
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Speaker 1: bases in our country. Of course it's foul play. If
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Speaker 1: it had been natural causes or an accident, nine one
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Speaker 1: one would have been called. Of course there's foul play. Now,
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Speaker 1: how am I supposed to reconcile the fact that this guy,
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Speaker 1: Gregory Wodell Morales is killed and buried about a mile
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Speaker 1: less than a mile from Fort Hood, and now Vanessa again,
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Speaker 1: gorgeous twenty one year old private first class also goes missing.
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Speaker 1: Well with me to figure out this major boo Shellen,
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Speaker 1: what does it mean to search for Vanessa's an all
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Speaker 1: star panel? First of all? James shell Nutt twenty seven
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Speaker 1: years metro major case including swat now lawyer at shell
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Speaker 1: Nutt Law Firm dot com. Renowned New York psychologist Karen
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Speaker 1: Start and joining me at Karen Stark dot com. Karen
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Speaker 1: Smith joining me out of LA Forensics X lecturer University
3:01
Speaker 1: of Florida and host I've Shattered Soul's new podcast. Doctor
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Speaker 1: Chris Sperry, who I personally have put on the stand
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Speaker 1: many many times on direct examination, former chief medical Examiner
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Speaker 1: for the entire state of Georgia and Texas Equisearch founder
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Speaker 1: and leader Tim Miller, who's joining us straight off the
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Speaker 1: search for another missing person. He has been leading many
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Speaker 1: of the searches for Vanessa. But right now to Levi
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Speaker 1: page Crime online dot com investigative reporter at LEVI, one
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Speaker 1: more very important guest joining us today and I can't
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Speaker 1: wait to hear from her. The attorney for Vanessa Gain's family,
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Speaker 1: Natalie Kawan, is with us, Tim Miller. It's my understanding
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Speaker 1: that near the body of Gregory when Dell Morales, more
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Speaker 1: remains have been found. Have you heard that yet, Tim,
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Speaker 1: I have heard that. Any kind of got excited thinking
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Speaker 1: that it was the Messa, but we don't know anything yet.
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Speaker 1: The remains have been sent away, I understand. To Dallas.
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Speaker 1: To doctor Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical Examiner, State of Georgia,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Sperry, what's the first thing the medical examiner
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Speaker 1: is going to do it? I agree with Tim Miller.
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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too excited. You know, was
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Speaker 1: there ever a time, Chris Sperry, that we didn't get
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Speaker 1: excited when we found out that potential human remains were found.
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Speaker 1: That's kind of bizarre. But that said, as it goes
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Speaker 1: for the search for Vanessa, what's the first thing they're
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Speaker 1: going to do with the Dallas medical examiners when they
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Speaker 1: look at these remains. Well, the very first thing the
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Speaker 1: medical examiner is going to do was to x ray
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Speaker 1: the remains. And the reason for that is to make
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Speaker 1: sure if there is a bullet or the tip of
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Speaker 1: a knife or something metallic that would be related to
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Speaker 1: the cause of death that can be found and identified
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Speaker 1: right off the bat, because there's often all sorts of
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Speaker 1: dirt that has caked on the on the remains, and
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Speaker 1: you know, brush and things like that that come in.
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Speaker 1: So that's the very first thing is to x ray everything.
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Speaker 1: You know, that just shows why you're the medical examiner
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Speaker 1: and I'm just a lowly trial lawyer, because I would
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Speaker 1: have thought the first thing you would do is decide
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Speaker 1: if it's human or animal. Well, that depends on how
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Speaker 1: much there is. If if it's just a single bone
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Speaker 1: that's relatively clean, we'll make that determination very quickly. And
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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right if it's Wait wait, wait, wait, Jackie,
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Speaker 1: I want a clip of this, because never, in all
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Speaker 1: the years that I have known doctor Chris Sperry, have
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Speaker 1: I heard him say the words those three beautiful words. No,
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Speaker 1: not I love you, although that's that's good too, But
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Speaker 1: you are right? Did you hear that he said? I've
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Speaker 1: never in all the years I've known you, Chris Berry,
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Speaker 1: and all the times I put you on the stand,
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Speaker 1: sworn you in on the Bible, I've never heard you
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Speaker 1: should say you are right? And I am so happy.
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Speaker 1: But you probably never heard me say that you're wrong either,
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Speaker 1: have you? Let me think? I find that hard to believe.
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Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta go back in time. But how
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Speaker 1: do you look at a bone? Let's just say, let's
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Speaker 1: just pretend it's it's I've got my left hand up
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Speaker 1: and I'm holding up my little finger. What if all
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Speaker 1: you have is that last digit behind your fingernail, How
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Speaker 1: do you know if you've got a human or a
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Speaker 1: dog or any animal. No, Okay, I understand if if
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Speaker 1: the see was talking about remains, I tend to think
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Speaker 1: about the lots of bones or a collection of things.
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Speaker 1: But if all that you have is say one little
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Speaker 1: small bone, well then you know, making the differentiation between
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Speaker 1: animal and human, of course, is very very important from
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Speaker 1: from the start. And for single bones or just a
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Speaker 1: few bones that are relatively clean, then uh you know, yes,
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Speaker 1: that's that's done. I've done that hundreds of time. But
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Speaker 1: how do you do it? How do you look at
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Speaker 1: this tiny bit of bone? Insay, that's human? Well, it's
7:16
Speaker 1: it's based on the shape and the length, the dimensions.
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Speaker 1: Human bones specifically look like human bones. You know that
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Speaker 1: because as doctors, you really are not telling me anything
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Speaker 1: new right now? Yeah, no, doctors, we all learn, you know,
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Speaker 1: what the human skeleton looks like. Uh now, it can
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Speaker 1: be very difficult sometimes if it's pieces of bones or
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Speaker 1: very very small. It's like it's like the single bone
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Speaker 1: that's the end of your you know, left little finger.
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Speaker 1: At that point, we might have an anthropologist come and
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Speaker 1: look at the bone as well, you know, to see
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Speaker 1: to see what they think. Let me ask you this
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Speaker 1: is there's some kind of a dnahs you can run
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Speaker 1: on it to determine if it's human or animal. Well sure,
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Speaker 1: if if if we can't decide just from looking at
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Speaker 1: it and X raying it, then that's that's an next
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Speaker 1: step would be to do DNA on it to see
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Speaker 1: if it's human or not human. And that's a very
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Speaker 1: simple kind of DNA test that can be accomplished overnight.
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Speaker 1: You know, doctor Chris Sperry, just let us in on
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Speaker 1: the truth. I know the truth, but I want you
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Speaker 1: to tell us you're again the MDA, the medical examiner.
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Speaker 1: When we always here I were waiting for DNA tests.
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Speaker 1: The reality is DNA test do not take as long
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Speaker 1: as the labs would have you believe. Now, I know
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Speaker 1: this for a fact, But can you tell me the
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Speaker 1: truth of it. Well, yeah, I'll say it the second time.
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Speaker 1: You're exactly right now. DNA testing can be done, I
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Speaker 1: mean literally overnight in any forensic laboratory that regularly does
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Speaker 1: DNA testing in this country can do really full of
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Speaker 1: DNA screening overnight twenty four hours easily. And those are
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Speaker 1: that kind of speed is really reserved for high profile
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Speaker 1: cases or where a question is really extremely important. You know,
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Speaker 1: is this animal or human or is this human not
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Speaker 1: only human, but couldn't come from someone that has been
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Speaker 1: missing for some period of time. So that rapid turnaround
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Speaker 1: is reserved for cases of significant importance or where further
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Speaker 1: investigation is really dependent upon the results, because if it's
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Speaker 1: not human, well then you're not going to send a
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Speaker 1: hundred people out coming through the brush looking for both
9:56
Speaker 1: climb stories with Nancy Grace Guys, I was speaking with
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Speaker 1: a medical examiner, doctor Chris Sperry. We are talking about
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Speaker 1: a bombshell in the search for a twenty year old
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Speaker 1: beauty private first class, Vanessa Gim. You were just hearing
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Speaker 1: doctor Chris Sperry as he was describing how you tell
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Speaker 1: whether the remains just found in connection to the Vanessa
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Speaker 1: Gim search are human or animal. He said that a
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Speaker 1: very quick DNA GaX Ryboni clake acid turnaround could be
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Speaker 1: done overnight only if it's an important case. Well, you
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Speaker 1: know what, what victim's family doesn't think it's an important case.
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Speaker 1: My big question we're talking about Vanessa Gim. Take a
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Speaker 1: listen now to k WTX describing her disappearance. Twenty year
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Speaker 1: old private first class of Vanessa Gilliam's keys ID card
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Speaker 1: and wallet were later found in the armory room where
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Speaker 1: she had been working earlier that day. If you have
11:03
Speaker 1: any information on Smile Don't Matter, please call the police.
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Speaker 1: We're being bringing picture of her. We're being close to
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Speaker 1: most small businesses. Guys they showed good joined on bass.
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Speaker 1: She was last seen wearing a black T shirt. She's
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Speaker 1: five feet two inches tall, one hundred and twenty six pounds,
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Speaker 1: with black hair and brown eyes. The search for Vanessa
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Speaker 1: Gain goes on this as the specter of sex harassment
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Speaker 1: on Vanessa raises its ugly head, and apparently other women
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Speaker 1: there in Fort Hoo would have complained. Now the Army
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Speaker 1: is officially saying they don't have any credible evidence she
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Speaker 1: was sex harassed. Well, she told her mother all about it.
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Speaker 1: I'm sure took others into her confidence. Is that not
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Speaker 1: enough guys joining me an all star panel? But right
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Speaker 1: now I want to go to special guests. The lawyer
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Speaker 1: for Vanessa Gean's family, Natalie Kawan, Natalie wasn't for all
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Speaker 1: we've heard. I just heard that reporter say Gillen. I
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Speaker 1: don't think that's correct. I don't want to disrespect their
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Speaker 1: family by mispronouncing their name. How is it pronounced Gian.
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Speaker 1: Thank you, Natalie. What is Vanessa's family's reaction to the
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Speaker 1: Bobshell that more remains have been found next to the
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Speaker 1: other private who went missing? Nobody ever found him either.
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Speaker 1: His remains were found a stone's throw from Fort Hood
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Speaker 1: and now more remains have been located near his body.
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Speaker 1: What's their reaction. Well, I think that they are hoping
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Speaker 1: that the charter comes up alive. Yeah, that's the mother,
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Speaker 1: especially the other beliefs that, you know, keep searching, we're
12:46
Speaker 1: going to find her. So she's very optimistic and hopeful
12:49
Speaker 1: that we'll find Vanessa. So you know, that's what we're
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Speaker 1: dealing with right now. Natalie Kawan with me, the lawyer
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Speaker 1: for Vanessa Gain's family. When the Army says officially that
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Speaker 1: they have no credible evidence to support Vanessa's claim she
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Speaker 1: was sex harassed, she told her mother about it. It's
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Speaker 1: my understanding, and the mom said, well, I'm going to
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Speaker 1: take care of it, and that's when Vanessa said, no,
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Speaker 1: I will take care of it. But she never did
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Speaker 1: formally file a complaint, and then suddenly before she could,
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Speaker 1: she goes missing. What does the family think of that? Well,
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Speaker 1: you know, this is something that's not an unusual situation.
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Speaker 1: A lot of women are afraid to disclose or report
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Speaker 1: sexual harassment, especially in the military. If you go to
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Speaker 1: the social media site I Am Vanessa Kean, it's sad,
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Speaker 1: it's scary. Hundreds and hundreds of soldiers are coming forth
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Speaker 1: with their story, a lot of them saying that they're
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Speaker 1: shamed to talk about it, but they're doing it for Vanessa,
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Speaker 1: and it tells you about the culture. These are people
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Speaker 1: that they work with on a donasis. There are people
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Speaker 1: that they eat fleap go, rabbit hole, fox holes forever
14:07
Speaker 1: with a daily basis, so there are free to report
14:11
Speaker 1: on their own brother or sister in arms about the
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Speaker 1: wrongful invested day, our experience in Europe, being or being
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Speaker 1: victims of And in this situation, she had two incidences
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Speaker 1: where she reported to her not just her mother and
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Speaker 1: her sisters, but also to her friends and her colleagues
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Speaker 1: at work, her soldier fellow soldiers, but she didn't want
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Speaker 1: to do a formal report, which is completely understandable. Nobody
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Speaker 1: wants to be retaliated or blackballed. This is some she
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Speaker 1: wanted to join the army and serve the country. She
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Speaker 1: didn't want to follow report of sexual harassment and then
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Speaker 1: get black balled. And I honestly, after I read all
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Speaker 1: these social media, you know, these instagrams and these people
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Speaker 1: talking about I am Vanessa, I am reading it, I'm thinking,
14:56
Speaker 1: no wonder she didn't want to come forth. Most people
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Speaker 1: don't want to come for because they feel like they're
15:00
Speaker 1: gonna get retality against. Here they're reading things of the insubordination,
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Speaker 1: being discharge, being put in a different units, are being toilets.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I read these things and I'm thinking, jeeves
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Speaker 1: that can imagine that she was going through. I mean, sure,
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Speaker 1: you have a beautiful nine year old girl. Her sergeant
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Speaker 1: walks in on her while she's taken a shower. How
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Speaker 1: creepy he sits there and watches her. She doesn't feel comfortable.
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Speaker 1: She asked him to leave. So you know, you have
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Speaker 1: the situation where have a young girl who doesn't know
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Speaker 1: what to do. She's in the military, her parents were immigrants.
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Speaker 1: It really it breaks my heart the ship's experiences, and
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Speaker 1: then another time she experiences another sexual harassment from another
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Speaker 1: sergeant of hers. She doesn't know what to do, she
15:45
Speaker 1: doesn't want to get any trouble by seeing anything. And
15:48
Speaker 1: here when the Army says to us, Oh, we didn't,
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Speaker 1: we didn't. We didn't look into this because sexual harassment
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Speaker 1: is not criminal. That was like where I was. They
15:59
Speaker 1: blew my mind when they say they did not look
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Speaker 1: into it, because so they didn't say that was not verifiable, incredible.
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Speaker 1: They said that there was no reporting of it and
16:07
Speaker 1: therefore they never looked into it. So when we said, well,
16:11
Speaker 1: wouldn't you want to look to the sexual harassment because
16:15
Speaker 1: that could lead due to some criminal behavior. I mean,
16:18
Speaker 1: you know behind every cargreature's five, they're going to fight
16:21
Speaker 1: other information and other Hyson criminals a criminal nature because
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Speaker 1: you don't know, right, just because she said to her
16:29
Speaker 1: mom that she guys actually arrived doesn't mean she told
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Speaker 1: the whole story. She could have been specially assaults it.
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Speaker 1: Kids don't want to tell them parents that they were assaulted.
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Speaker 1: You know. Natalie Kawan is with me, the lawyer for
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Speaker 1: Vanessa's family. Natalie, I bet you'd be really surprised at
16:45
Speaker 1: all the people who may have a lot of degrees
16:49
Speaker 1: and a lot of experience that stayed quiet when they
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Speaker 1: were sex harassed, some of them because they were at
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Speaker 1: a mission. Like Vanessa, she wanted to serve her country.
17:05
Speaker 1: Lawyers have cases that they're committed to that they want
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Speaker 1: to win in court, and saying that, let's just pretend
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Speaker 1: a judge or another lawyer or an investigation investigator sucks
17:18
Speaker 1: harrass them repeatedly. If that were to come out and
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Speaker 1: a big complaint file, the case would be blown up.
17:27
Speaker 1: And what about the clients or the victims in that case,
17:30
Speaker 1: what happens to them mistrial? I mean, there are so
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Speaker 1: many things that women balance when they make the decision
17:38
Speaker 1: not to come forward. But Natalie Kawan, I'm so glad
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Speaker 1: you're telling me that of two incidents she actually reported
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Speaker 1: to her colleagues, not just her mom and her friends,
17:50
Speaker 1: but to colleagues at work. Guys, I want you to
17:55
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Fox seven. This
17:59
Speaker 1: is Austin reporter Shannon Ryan talking about exactly what Nale
18:04
Speaker 1: Kawan was just saying. The website I Am Vanessa, Gee
18:09
Speaker 1: and listen. Yean disappeared after telling family and friends she
18:13
Speaker 1: was being sexually harassed on post. Right now, it's unclear
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Speaker 1: if her disappearance is connected to the reported sexual harassment,
18:20
Speaker 1: but her story has encouraged women throughout the country to
18:23
Speaker 1: come forward. And share their own experiences with sexual misconduct
18:27
Speaker 1: in the military. I want people to know that you know,
18:31
Speaker 1: women and women in the military. We don't need to
18:35
Speaker 1: be protected, we need to be respected. Nineteen years ago, YARIMR.
18:40
Speaker 1: Lewis was a nineteen year old Private first class at
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Speaker 1: Fort Hood. I want to conserve my country. Today, she's
18:46
Speaker 1: one of hundreds of women sharing their stories under the
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Speaker 1: hashtag I Am Vanessa Gean. The twenty year old private
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Speaker 1: first class disappeared from post on April twenty second. She
18:57
Speaker 1: told family and friends she was being actually harassed, which
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Speaker 1: is unaccessable because she wasn't supposed to be safe while
19:04
Speaker 1: working and protecting the country. We live in crime Stories
19:20
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about bombshell evidence
19:24
Speaker 1: that us just come forward in the last hours in
19:27
Speaker 1: the search for Vanessa again. Straight out to Levi Page,
19:31
Speaker 1: crime online dot com investigative reporter now joining us Levi Page,
19:36
Speaker 1: tell me about the discovery of Gregory when Dell Morales remains.
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Speaker 1: Let's start there and then we'll move to the newly
19:44
Speaker 1: discovered remains. So Gregory when Dell Morales was twenty three
19:49
Speaker 1: years old, he went missing August twenty nineteen, a few
19:54
Speaker 1: days before he was going to leave the army and
19:57
Speaker 1: his remains were found last week. It's and positively confirmed
20:01
Speaker 1: that they were him. And this was found during the
20:05
Speaker 1: search of Vanessa again and FOURTHOOD is playing everything very
20:10
Speaker 1: close to the vest, Nancy. They're not releasing a lot
20:12
Speaker 1: of information about it. What do we know about Vanessa again?
20:18
Speaker 1: Take eight? Listen to what her sister has to say
20:21
Speaker 1: to the six News your porter Jasmine Colwell. Investigators say
20:25
Speaker 1: the twenty year old soldier was last seen April twenty
20:29
Speaker 1: second at one pm. She was a family where our
20:31
Speaker 1: weld ten girl. She was signing that would come home
20:35
Speaker 1: that world her parties to every right benings like off
20:38
Speaker 1: Dame down. You know it would be easy for her
20:41
Speaker 1: to choose the other route and no, she would come
20:43
Speaker 1: home every weekend to us. Myra says. Her sister means
20:48
Speaker 1: the world to her and she'd do anything to find her.
20:51
Speaker 1: I love her and I'm not gonna stop. I'm not
20:54
Speaker 1: gonna stop until I hup her whistles because I meant
21:04
Speaker 1: the Army. C ID is encouraging anyone with information to
21:08
Speaker 1: come forward, even if you choose to remain anonymous. Please
21:12
Speaker 1: go to Crime online dot com see Vanessa again, read
21:18
Speaker 1: her story. I think about my little girl, Lucy. I
21:22
Speaker 1: have twins, John David Lucy. They're only twelve, but they're
21:25
Speaker 1: about to turn thirteen. Vanessa just seven years older than
21:29
Speaker 1: my girl, and I want her prepared to go out
21:33
Speaker 1: in the world and be a huge hit and whatever
21:36
Speaker 1: she chooses to do. And to think that she would
21:40
Speaker 1: be sex harassed at work and afraid to come forward
21:45
Speaker 1: or lose her job, because don't you know that is
21:49
Speaker 1: exactly what Vanessa thought. If I come forward, I'll never
21:53
Speaker 1: make it anywhere in the army, I'll be black bald,
21:58
Speaker 1: I'll get a discharge. Then what am I gonna do it?
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Speaker 1: It's just making me ill to even think about it.
22:07
Speaker 1: To Karen start joining me New York psychologist. You can
22:10
Speaker 1: find her at Karen Stark dot com. You know, it
22:12
Speaker 1: doesn't give women very much of a choice. And I
22:15
Speaker 1: don't want to go down a rabbit hole hole on
22:20
Speaker 1: sex harassment. I want to help find Vanessa, but I
22:24
Speaker 1: can't help but believe that these two are intertwined. The
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Speaker 1: sex harassment she was endearing, and I believe her and
22:32
Speaker 1: her disappearance. Karen Stark, I mean when you think of
22:37
Speaker 1: your daughter going out there and putting up with a
22:41
Speaker 1: crap that she had to put up with and then
22:43
Speaker 1: go missing. I mean, if she was right, Karen Stark,
22:47
Speaker 1: if she had said anything, I bet she would have
22:49
Speaker 1: been black Balt. Well, especially Nancy, you're talking about the
22:55
Speaker 1: armed services. You're talking about the army, and as it
22:59
Speaker 1: was said earlier, that's a place where you are not
23:02
Speaker 1: supposed to I mean, they don't say you can, but
23:06
Speaker 1: I'd be surprised if they're actually doing any kind of
23:10
Speaker 1: investigation to look into this. She knew to be afraid
23:14
Speaker 1: because it's not acceptable. You're supposed to be strong, you're
23:19
Speaker 1: supposed to deal with it. You're not supposed to ever
23:23
Speaker 1: report on somebody else, especially sexual harassment. And again, our
23:28
Speaker 1: program today is about searching for Vanessa. But I truly believe,
23:34
Speaker 1: I mean, James Shellnutt twenty seven years much a major case. Now, lawyer,
23:40
Speaker 1: Come on, James, can you believe that two are not connected?
23:43
Speaker 1: Because think about it. At Fort Hood, every person that
23:47
Speaker 1: comes in, not leaving, but comes in, goes through a
23:50
Speaker 1: security guard checkpoint and if you're a visitor, you have
23:55
Speaker 1: to show your ID and they make a list of
23:58
Speaker 1: who's coming in. I mean they've do that TV studios
24:01
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. When you leave not so much, but
24:04
Speaker 1: they knew every visitor coming in. And if you work there,
24:08
Speaker 1: I guess you just show your badge. But long story short,
24:12
Speaker 1: this was at lunchtime. She left all her stuff in
24:16
Speaker 1: the armoring where she worked on a munition's repair, and
24:20
Speaker 1: she took with her just her cell phone. She left
24:23
Speaker 1: behind her ID, her room card to get in and
24:29
Speaker 1: out of her room, her keys, her wallet, all of
24:32
Speaker 1: her stuff. She just walked out with just her cell phone,
24:36
Speaker 1: just as if you and I would walk to a
24:38
Speaker 1: different room, we might carry our cell phone with us
24:40
Speaker 1: in case it rang. She never came back. I find
24:43
Speaker 1: it very difficult believe that some intrude or some outsider
24:48
Speaker 1: took her so ergo. Therefore, if an insider a furthood
24:54
Speaker 1: is involved, how likely is it it's not connected to
24:58
Speaker 1: these on the job set harassment claims. Yeah, I agree
25:02
Speaker 1: that that is something that needs to be put up
25:04
Speaker 1: on her magnifying glass. You know, the bottom line is,
25:07
Speaker 1: you know as well as I do, when a person
25:10
Speaker 1: leaves their keys, persh wallet, personal belongings like that they
25:15
Speaker 1: are planning on coming back for those things. That's not
25:18
Speaker 1: something you permanent leave or abandoned somewhere. It means that
25:21
Speaker 1: she was planning on coming back. So when you look
25:24
Speaker 1: at these two cases, one of the first things that
25:26
Speaker 1: you know, looking at from a to take this point
25:28
Speaker 1: of view, that you want to do is you want
25:30
Speaker 1: to try to connect the dots between these two cases.
25:33
Speaker 1: Did these two know each other? I mean, that's one
25:35
Speaker 1: of the first questions that you want to ask. And
25:38
Speaker 1: then number two after that, you know, do these people
25:41
Speaker 1: know the same people? Is there any connection in between
25:45
Speaker 1: the people they know? We're the group that they run in.
25:47
Speaker 1: And I think that the investigators looking at this case
25:50
Speaker 1: are fumbling the ball if they don't go back and
25:53
Speaker 1: look at the other case file of the young man
25:55
Speaker 1: that came up missing and remains letter discovered. You know,
25:59
Speaker 1: think about guys. Karen Smith joining me forensics expert lecturer,
26:03
Speaker 1: University of Florida. Now she has her own podcast called
26:07
Speaker 1: Shattered Sold. Karen Smith and I first met. I think
26:12
Speaker 1: Karen when we were doing a reenactment of a murder
26:15
Speaker 1: and all the possibilities that would help us prove what happened.
26:21
Speaker 1: Did it happen this way? Did it happen that way.
26:23
Speaker 1: Remember that and all that fake blood. Karen Smith. Yes,
26:28
Speaker 1: let's talk about what we know. We know that she
26:32
Speaker 1: left her ID card, which you need. You know, when
26:36
Speaker 1: you're at work, you need your ID if you carry
26:39
Speaker 1: an ID, her wallet, and in my mind even more important,
26:42
Speaker 1: her car keys. So when I think I've lost my keys,
26:46
Speaker 1: which is often, I need to put one of those
26:48
Speaker 1: little tile things on there, but I immediately try to
26:52
Speaker 1: find them. I like, I can't find my car keys.
26:55
Speaker 1: Why would she left her car keys? And that tells
26:57
Speaker 1: anybody you don't have to be forensic expert like yourself
27:01
Speaker 1: to know she meant to come back because she left
27:04
Speaker 1: her car keys at her workspace space and her workstation.
27:08
Speaker 1: That's correct. I'm a military veteran. I'll tell you this.
27:10
Speaker 1: When you go on base, you go through a checkpoint
27:12
Speaker 1: and they randomly check id's on the way. In a
27:14
Speaker 1: lot of times, there'll be a sticker on your car
27:16
Speaker 1: and you get waved in or you get saluted if
27:18
Speaker 1: you're an officer. Then you go to your workstation. I
27:21
Speaker 1: worked in an airplane hangar. That's where I parked. That's
27:24
Speaker 1: where I went. They come in and they check to
27:27
Speaker 1: make sure you are where you're supposed to be when
27:29
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be there. And one of the things
27:31
Speaker 1: that really disturbs me when I read this, Nancy, was
27:34
Speaker 1: the fact that they do must numerous times a day.
27:38
Speaker 1: If Vanessa went or excuse me, if she went missing
27:41
Speaker 1: at eleven thirty to twelve thirty in the afternoon and
27:44
Speaker 1: she missed Mustard, they've already said that that was a mistake,
27:48
Speaker 1: that they counted her present when she wasn't. That is
27:52
Speaker 1: not That's not what happens in the military. If you're
27:55
Speaker 1: not there, they find out where you are. Because when
27:58
Speaker 1: you sign up and you signed paper and you swear
28:00
Speaker 1: an oath to the Constitution, they own you. You are
28:04
Speaker 1: there for the duration. And that's which they should have
28:08
Speaker 1: started this entire thing the minute she did not show
28:11
Speaker 1: up to muster. Let me ask you something you just said.
28:14
Speaker 1: Did they do muster For those of the don't know
28:16
Speaker 1: what that means? Could you explain it very quickly? Sure,
28:19
Speaker 1: it's a check in. It's basically, are you doing your job?
28:21
Speaker 1: Are you where you're supposed to be When you're in
28:23
Speaker 1: the military, attention to detail and doing your job is
28:27
Speaker 1: what you have signed up for. And I was an
28:30
Speaker 1: aviation structural mechanic. If I wasn't in the hangar and
28:33
Speaker 1: I wasn't there at say, three o'clock in the afternoon,
28:36
Speaker 1: they would want to know where I'm at. Am I
28:38
Speaker 1: down at aimd am, I down at the dock getting
28:41
Speaker 1: plane parts off of an aircraft. They know where I'm
28:44
Speaker 1: at because A I have signed out, I've checked in
28:47
Speaker 1: with my superior officers. They know where I'm at every
28:50
Speaker 1: minute of every single ding Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
29:07
Speaker 1: we were talking about the disappearance of a beautiful young
29:10
Speaker 1: twenty year old private first class at Fort Hood. Her
29:14
Speaker 1: name Vanessa Gim. At first, we kept doing the story
29:20
Speaker 1: because I felt no one was focusing on Vanessa's disappearance.
29:24
Speaker 1: She was getting lost in the sauce and everything else
29:26
Speaker 1: is happening in our country right now. But in the
29:29
Speaker 1: last hours a bobshell in the case. More remains have
29:35
Speaker 1: been found in the search for Vanessa. Straight back out
29:40
Speaker 1: to crime online dot COM's Levi page, LEVI take a lesson.
29:44
Speaker 1: Listen to what we know about Vanessa herself. This is ABC,
29:49
Speaker 1: Good Morning America, Stephanie Ramos. Listen. Before Vanessa went missing,
29:54
Speaker 1: her family says she told them she was being sexually
29:57
Speaker 1: harassed by one of her sergeants and didn't tell her
30:00
Speaker 1: superiors for fear of retribution. The Army now saying they
30:04
Speaker 1: will investigate those allegations, adding that the search for the
30:08
Speaker 1: private first class continues on the ground and in the air.
30:13
Speaker 1: But that response not good enough for the hundreds that
30:16
Speaker 1: gathered outside the army post Friday. How can we not
30:19
Speaker 1: find one of our own? How can they not find
30:22
Speaker 1: one of their own? Concerns over the missing soldier gaining
30:25
Speaker 1: traction on social media, actress Salmahayek joining the effort, posting
30:30
Speaker 1: a message on Instagram saying, bring back Vanessa. We won't
30:33
Speaker 1: stop until you come back. Joining me in Austar Pale,
30:37
Speaker 1: including the lawyer for Vanessa Geean's family. Straight back to you,
30:42
Speaker 1: Levipage Crime online dot com investigative reporter again, tell me
30:45
Speaker 1: about the remains found near those of another young private
30:50
Speaker 1: there at Fort Hood that disappeared. Hood claim they didn't
30:54
Speaker 1: know anything about it. Well, he turns up dead and buried,
30:58
Speaker 1: you know, and the shadows of Fort Hood far from
31:00
Speaker 1: the Army base. His name Gregory, When del Morales do
31:05
Speaker 1: we know a cod on Morales yet, Levi Page and
31:08
Speaker 1: where in relation to Morales's Moraine remains were these new
31:14
Speaker 1: remains discovered? Nancy. We do not know how Morales died.
31:19
Speaker 1: We don't know the cause of death yet. But what
31:22
Speaker 1: we do know is that over the weekend, thirty volunteers
31:25
Speaker 1: from Texas Equasearch, a very respected search group, found remains.
31:32
Speaker 1: They came across these remains in an undisclosed area near Footthood.
31:37
Speaker 1: Near the remains were twenty three year old soldier Gregory
31:41
Speaker 1: Morales was found June nineteenth. He went missing in August
31:46
Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen. We don't know whose remains they were.
31:51
Speaker 1: They're keeping everything very close to the vest. Joining me
31:54
Speaker 1: right now a special guest, the leader of Texas equa Search.
31:59
Speaker 1: You found those remains, Tim Miller. Tim Miller, before I
32:03
Speaker 1: get into how you got involved in Vanessa Game's disappearance,
32:07
Speaker 1: tell me about how your team found the second set
32:10
Speaker 1: of remains. Well, the remains were found her than walking
32:13
Speaker 1: this sense of Gregory, But we are not the ones
32:15
Speaker 1: that actually found him. It was actually somebody else called
32:18
Speaker 1: a tip in and that's how they was found. While
32:23
Speaker 1: why we were searching got it. Yeah, but we're not
32:27
Speaker 1: the Nancy has food for thoughts here, just something for
32:31
Speaker 1: y'all to think about. When I was talking to Maylor
32:34
Speaker 1: and I said they were what would Vanessa be wearing?
32:39
Speaker 1: And Mayor said, well, she's working, she's going to be
32:42
Speaker 1: wearing her army clothes. So, you know what, we always
32:47
Speaker 1: want to think about the last person that's seen her.
32:50
Speaker 1: We really got big question marks right now. Why if
32:54
Speaker 1: she was working, she was wearing the clothes that the
32:57
Speaker 1: last person said that she was wearing. And we don't
33:00
Speaker 1: believe that is credible information. People in the military, when
33:05
Speaker 1: they're working their work, there were in their armory clothes.
33:07
Speaker 1: She said she would have those other clothes underneath her
33:11
Speaker 1: army clothes, so when she decided to go jogging, then
33:16
Speaker 1: she would take her army clothes up. The other question
33:19
Speaker 1: is did she leave on her own from that armory
33:23
Speaker 1: to go to lunch. Well, I'm telling you we don't
33:27
Speaker 1: think that is the case. Was she last seen by
33:30
Speaker 1: somebody else? We don't think that was the case. Neither
33:35
Speaker 1: our thoughts are now. She never lost left that armory
33:39
Speaker 1: on her own. Straight back out to Natalie Kawadi, lawyer
33:43
Speaker 1: for Vanessa Game's family. Natalie, let's clear up those very
33:48
Speaker 1: very insightful questions by Tim Miller. At the very beginning, Natalie,
33:54
Speaker 1: I asked what was she wearing? I was told black leggings,
34:00
Speaker 1: athletic laggings that she might go jogging in. And I asked,
34:03
Speaker 1: why did she have on her uniform? And I was
34:05
Speaker 1: told that it was okay for her not to wear
34:08
Speaker 1: her uniform that day. Do you know the answer to that? Yeah,
34:11
Speaker 1: she was actually off that day. Someone called her into work.
34:16
Speaker 1: That's the most troubling part. They won't provide us to
34:18
Speaker 1: the name of the person who called her into work.
34:21
Speaker 1: She was supposed to go hiking that afternoon with her
34:24
Speaker 1: friend on the base. They were going to go out
34:27
Speaker 1: for a hike, so she definitely had a day planned
34:31
Speaker 1: ahead of her. She was only to come in for
34:33
Speaker 1: a couple hours to do something on her day off,
34:36
Speaker 1: and that's when she disappeared. Okay. A couple of questions.
34:40
Speaker 1: Was the friend she was to go hiking with? Male
34:42
Speaker 1: or female? A male? Has he been questioned? Yeah, I
34:45
Speaker 1: spoke to him too. Has he been questioned by police
34:48
Speaker 1: or fourthood authorities? I understand he has been questioned several
34:51
Speaker 1: times by agents. I see a d agent. Okay, and
34:55
Speaker 1: who called her in on her day off. They won't
35:00
Speaker 1: provide that for us. Actually, they didn't even provide that
35:03
Speaker 1: information to me about him being questioned. I had to
35:05
Speaker 1: ask him about that. I'm very curious. I mean, think
35:09
Speaker 1: about it, Karen Smith. It's her day off and she
35:13
Speaker 1: gets called in, and coincidentally, on the day she gets
35:18
Speaker 1: called in, she gets missing. Yeah, that doesn't ring as
35:21
Speaker 1: coincidental to me at all. Nancy. When you're called into work,
35:25
Speaker 1: there's a specific reason for that plane needs to be
35:28
Speaker 1: turned around for deployment, a windshield crack, something happened that
35:32
Speaker 1: needs to be repaired. They don't have the manpower they
35:34
Speaker 1: need you to come in and help. If she was
35:36
Speaker 1: called in to help with something, then they know exactly
35:39
Speaker 1: who called her in and the reason why. If there
35:42
Speaker 1: was something different than they need to either investigate the
35:47
Speaker 1: person who called her in. That's one of the first
35:49
Speaker 1: place they need to start, because that person may have
35:51
Speaker 1: been the last person to see her. You know. Another
35:54
Speaker 1: question regarding the discovery of these remains, I'm trying to
35:59
Speaker 1: do Terman, if any other items were found, clothing, personal items,
36:06
Speaker 1: anything like that. Tim Miller, Texas SEC Research do we know? Yeah,
36:11
Speaker 1: his clothes were found, his idea was found, and of
36:17
Speaker 1: course it uh, you know, it's been investigator on who
36:21
Speaker 1: did this, but it was foul play back to doctor
36:25
Speaker 1: Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Georgia.
36:28
Speaker 1: Doctor Sperry, at this point, do you believe that tracker
36:35
Speaker 1: dogs should be able to track Vanessa's route off forth Hood?
36:40
Speaker 1: If she ever even left forth Hood? It's been as
36:45
Speaker 1: long as it's been. I've given about a fifty fifty
36:49
Speaker 1: chance they might be able to track her, but it's
36:53
Speaker 1: it's very difficult. And also if she walked there, I mean,
36:59
Speaker 1: if she traveled under her own ability, it would be
37:04
Speaker 1: much easier to track unless except if she was carried,
37:09
Speaker 1: if she was brought there by someone else, then her
37:14
Speaker 1: you know, leaving sent trails for dogs would be very
37:18
Speaker 1: very slim. To Tim Miller, I understand that tech Texas
37:22
Speaker 1: EQ Research said it found items on Saturday that could
37:27
Speaker 1: be linked to Vanessa. Is this true? We're anxiously waiting
37:34
Speaker 1: for lab reports to come back. Can you tell us
37:38
Speaker 1: what the items were? H Well, you know, there is
37:42
Speaker 1: a there's actually a witness has seems something um and
37:47
Speaker 1: we campus close that. I think that we actually found
37:52
Speaker 1: something that a witness seems so everybody's excited. To Texas
37:57
Speaker 1: Rangers and military, they gave more. There's a lot of
38:01
Speaker 1: people out there, so we're anxiously waiting for lab reports
38:05
Speaker 1: to come back on on the item that you found.
38:08
Speaker 1: You found it. We found that by that river, that
38:11
Speaker 1: Leon River, which is twenty six miles away. Our fear
38:17
Speaker 1: is that that she was thrown in that river. We
38:21
Speaker 1: are going back tomorrow and we got miles and miles
38:26
Speaker 1: of river to do. We know that you know, if
38:29
Speaker 1: she was thrown in that river that you know of
38:33
Speaker 1: course by now our body would be decomposed. Were it's
38:37
Speaker 1: it's impossible to get a boat down there. We're actually
38:40
Speaker 1: going to have ten kayaks. We feel as though hopefully
38:45
Speaker 1: maybe it rained three days afterwards, maybe if her little
38:50
Speaker 1: body was in there, then when the water went bound,
38:52
Speaker 1: she could be on a shoreline, or maybe we could
38:55
Speaker 1: find some of her clothes possibly caught up. And because
38:59
Speaker 1: there's many trees and branches and debris in their sol
39:02
Speaker 1: where does Leon empty h and it empties into it
39:07
Speaker 1: actually goes to a damn for lake belt and and
39:11
Speaker 1: of course at the dam area's very deep. We we
39:15
Speaker 1: actually had our big boat in our sonar, and we
39:17
Speaker 1: sown heard all of that lake belt. So you don't
39:20
Speaker 1: think she made it too. If she was thrown in
39:23
Speaker 1: that river, you don't think she made it to the lake.
39:25
Speaker 1: We're only hoping that we can find some more evidence
39:29
Speaker 1: that we can find her clothes, or with little God's luck,
39:32
Speaker 1: maybe we can find part of her or all of hers.
39:35
Speaker 1: So we're yeah, we're heading back out today and we
39:40
Speaker 1: got a lot of work ahead of us. To Miller,
39:44
Speaker 1: I know you've been working around the clock. To you
39:46
Speaker 1: and everyone joining us right now, I want to thank
39:50
Speaker 1: you because everything we do could help in some small,
39:56
Speaker 1: some tiny way in finding Vanessa. Tipline two one two
40:01
Speaker 1: nine four one eighty three hundred repeat two one four
40:06
Speaker 1: nine four one eighty three hundred two one four nine
40:11
Speaker 1: four one eighty three hundred Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
40:15
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,