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'Chess' Music and Stagecraft | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Chess has rules, musicals have feelings, this podcast has both.
• 0:04
  Welcome to BSB podcast where today we're continuing our exploration of Broadway's current revival Chess.
• 0:09
  But before we dive in, like, follow, and subscribe to us, BSB Insider, on all social media platforms @bsb.insider
• 0:17
  spoiler warning, we're diving into chess.
• 0:19
  So if you wish to remain unspoiled about the show, pause this episode and return once you've seen it.
• 0:25
  In our previous episode, we talked about the story and the narrative of the show.
• 0:30
  A Cold War game of chess, both figuratively and actually.
• 0:38
  It starred Aaron Tveit Lea Michele, and we had a understudy for the role of Anatoly, but
• 0:45
  uh these three characters are playing a dangerous game of love as they're also dealing with the repercussions of a world that is on edge.
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  But in this show, we're going to talk about the music.
• 0:58
  Because I feel like RJ, I think we can both agree that this is a show that the emphasis is absolutely on the music and less on the story.
• 1:08
  Is that correct?
• 1:09
  I could agree with that.
• 1:11
  Thank you, thank you.
• 1:11
  ah But truthfully, this is, we went into this, and I'll say this, prior to going to the show, I had said that somebody had told me that this was more of a concert and don't
• 1:24
  expect a musical.
• 1:26
  And we went into that show, we went into Chess on the snowiest days in New York that we've ever been there.
• 1:34
  And we walked down some stairs and...
• 1:39
  Some of us walked down some stairs.
• 1:42
  Yeah, some of us did walk down some stairs, oh but we got to our seats, we sat down, and we got what was probably the coolest Broadway concert we have ever been to.
• 1:52
  Because I really struggle with the fact that this did not feel like a musical in the traditional sense.
• 2:02
  Can you explain to the listeners why I'm saying it this way?
• 2:05
  I mean...
• 2:06
  I'm backing up a little bit because it is also ironic to me that we managed to see two shows that gave very similar concert-esque vibes.
• 2:20
  So for anyone who may have seen also Chicago on Broadway,
• 2:26
  extremely similar in the sense that you've got a band on stage basically in a U-shape, takes up the entire stage aside from some stairs and a couple couches, and it was kind of
• 2:44
  just like watching the characters come on and off to sing, which is basically the definition of a concert.
• 2:55
  Yeah, it is very interesting that we did see too.
• 3:01
  we'll take a step back even further.
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  um Chicago has been on Broadway for decades.
• 3:09
  Chess has just come back in this revival now.
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  and
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  I get why they did it.
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  It is a cool aspect, but it's just like, it's not what you expect when you go to Broadway almost.
• 3:23
  I mean, maybe I'm wrong here.
• 3:24
  Maybe I'm the one that doesn't understand it, but it's not what I expected going into chess.
• 3:30
  I'm gonna challenge you on this because...
• 3:33
  Please do.
• 3:34
  another musical that comes to mind.
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  And I think the only reason that we don't see it more of a concert is because the set is a little bit more elaborate, but still doesn't change a ton, like at all.
• 3:49
  Hadestown
• 3:51
  Oh.
• 3:52
  While we do get some movement, most of the time we have people coming on and off stage singing with a small ensemble.
• 4:04
  Okay, I'm gonna challenge you back then.
• 4:06
  Go for it.
• 4:08
  Hadestown does something that chess does not.
• 4:13
  It has, it does have set pieces, but it has tables, it has bars, it has the platform, it has all these different things that do add a narrative aspect to the show.
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  Where this one, we had rolling benches.
• 4:33
  and not much else.
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  the stage was literally the U-shaped platforms that go up and over and down with the band surrounding it.
• 4:44
  Besides that, it's really not narratively, there's not anything going on.
• 4:48
  Yes, yes, there's a story.
• 4:50
  Yes, there's a narrative being told, but it's not like.
• 4:54
  But then again, I guess you can argue that about Sunset Boulevard too then.
• 4:57
  So maybe we're going down a rabbit hole.
• 4:59
  And six.
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  Okay, now you're just being blasphemous here.
• 5:06
  I mean honestly until we just said that I hadn't really thought of it but it feels like maybe this is the way that we're doing musicals right now.
• 5:15
  because it's probably cheaper.
• 5:17
  Well, and like, it's much like anything else that trends or is trending.
• 5:26
  It reminds me of architecture.
• 5:30
  Right?
• 5:31
  Like we can look back at history and be like, mm, this was built during this time.
• 5:35
  This was built during that time because that's what was in at that time.
• 5:39
  Right now it does kind of feel like even revival wise, we're looking at shows and building them around the voices and the acting rather than building the show around the visual
• 5:56
  ideal.
• 5:57
  But also, yes, it could completely have to do with budget.
• 6:00
  cause it really does feel like this show.
• 6:03
  And when we, when we talk about Chicago, we'll, we'll talk about Chicago, but when you talk about chess, it really does feel like they, for lack of better term, they put their
• 6:13
  money where their mouth is with such a talented cast that you really wanted the singing to be the, like the, the thing that brings them in.
• 6:22
  Like people are probably flocking to that show.
• 6:26
  because of Lea Michele.
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  Do know what I mean?
• 6:30
  Correct.
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  I mean, I think like 90 % of the people in line with us, you know, people are asking, is Leah going on today?
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  She's the only reason that I'm here.
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  um That is just the reality, I think, of a show like this, where it is so music heavy and you're really coming to hear someone sing their lungs out.
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  um
• 6:58
  like gypsy.
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  it does give a little bit of perspective on, what are we prioritizing as an industry?
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  And is this the new way?
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  sure.
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  It's kind of like when we went to go see Gypsy and we said, you're coming to see Audra.
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  Like that's who you're coming to see.
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  And this one very much felt like, okay, you're coming to see like even we knew Aaron Tveit you know, like, but like people were like Lea Michele because Lea Michele is a household
• 7:24
  name from Glee.
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  People grew up on her music in that show.
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  Like, and so you're coming to see the diva of all divas on stage and to hear her belt some of these notes.
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  And so I think it's, it's an interesting perspective because
• 7:39
  It does truly allow the show to focus on the singing.
• 7:44
  You know what mean?
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  Kind of the same with Sunset Boulevard where you got to listen to Nicole belt these notes, but you weren't worried about a big set because there wasn't a set to be dazzled by.
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  The dazzling was the person singing.
• 7:56
  Yeah, like our eyes are remaining engaged enough.
• 8:00
  There's enough happening.
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  I'm just thinking of, you know, when I think it's Act 2 when they brought like all those neon signs down for the beginning of the act.
• 8:12
  uh So there's still...
• 8:15
  Yeah, there's there's still a little bit of movement and excitement happening.
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  There's definitely still choreographed numbers that the ensemble does, I think, predominantly in Act One.
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  And then, yeah, like you mentioned, we had a bunch of rolling couches that I'm sure there was.
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  They're kind of used in every facet that they can possibly be used in.
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  uh
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  and we did have some technology used in regards to like the reporting pieces and again, those camera angles, which is something that we also seem to be utilizing more on
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  Broadway.
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  It's interesting how...
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  we've kind of altered our expectations or maybe not expectations isn't the right word, but what we're accepting now for shows like this because we're so okay with focusing on the
• 9:11
  stardom.
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  you know, maybe that's part of what added to the concert feel to me as well that Chicago didn't have or that Six doesn't have is that much like Sunset Boulevard, they were using
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  the cameras and then like they had the big screens in the back that remind you of a concert of like, oh, you know, you're seeing your favorite star sing the song, even though
• 9:32
  like you're far away, you get the big jumbotron in a way.
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  And so in that way, did kind of have that concert-esque feel, just be like, oh, Lea Michele's face is five.
• 9:41
  stories in front of me and she's also singing you know what I mean like that aspect as well could also add to the the feel of that concert.
• 9:52
  100 % and I think they created that knowing that people have that expectation.
• 9:59
  You're coming to see somebody and you want to be able to see them even if you're in the front row, you're in the back row.
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  Not that New York theaters are very big.
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  I mean, we were kind of middle ground and we had no problem seeing her or anyone at all.
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  But it is, like again, with those showcasy voices where you're just belting it out, it is another thing to witness up close and personal.
• 10:27
  For sure, for sure.
• 10:28
  uh Okay, so about the music, let's go back to the music for a second.
• 10:34
  We are having a show that is, I should say it is the second show on Broadway currently that is featuring the music of individuals from ABBA.
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  uh This show was written by two of the people who were in ABBA.
• 10:49
  And so it's more designed for the show.
• 10:52
  But I don't know if you noticed, there was a lot of that like 1970s ABBA vibes, very like heavily influenced or like ripped into like the score and stuff of chess.
• 11:06
  Did you feel that?
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  I mean, it's a lot of that like early synth feel, right?
• 11:12
  Where we're not quite into like the 2000s or even, know, early 90s pop yet, but we've got like, we have electric keyboard and all of a sudden that feels like super hip.
• 11:25
  um With a rhythm that is still, even in during the slow songs, you still kind of had this underlying beat that was occurring.
• 11:39
  so yeah, definitely clearly influenced, and very comparable.
• 11:45
  I think if you put some of those songs, uh, alongside pretty much anything else they created, you're going to see some similarities.
• 11:53
  And I think that's interesting that you noted that because when you look at the music of the show as well, it was nonstop.
• 12:01
  At least I want to say act one was nonstop.
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  Like every song, it reminded me of almost like ragtime a little bit and like how the music just continued on.
• 12:08
  There wasn't a lot of talking.
• 12:10
  There was talking, there was still quite a bit of music happening in a lot of them, like undertones.
• 12:17
  This was a very music heavy show.
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  In fact, I'm looking at songs of
• 12:22
  of Act 1 and it's double, almost triple that of Act 2.
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  How do you think the music serves the narration?
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  Do you think it's one of those shows that the story happens in the songs?
• 12:38
  little bit.
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  I don't know if it exclusively happens there because there are, it's just we're covering so much time and so many different instances and different angles, but I think each song
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  tackles whatever angle it's intentional for.
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  Whether that's love, whether that's politics, whether that's chess, um they do kind of hone in on
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  the specification of that individual piece.
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  for sure.
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  So then with the music, and again, I know that you've mentioned that you've seen these at different auditions and you've seen them perform and stuff like that.
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  Which songs stand out to you from Chess the musical?
• 13:29
  None of them.
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  I can tell by your nose scrunch.
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  This is not a show for you.
• 13:34
  You didn't care for the story all that much and the music's not doing it for you.
• 13:38
  Yeah, I mean, I think the only thing, which is so funny because it's kind of like not a useless song, but it's not one that
• 13:46
  is my typical like emotive ballad.
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  um One Night in Bangkok.
• 13:54
  Yes.
• 13:56
  Yeah.
• 13:57
  I have no idea.
• 13:58
  It's catchy enough and I think it...
• 14:02
  It kind of reawoke the show, I think, which again, what is it, beginning of Act Two?
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  We kind of needed like a...
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  kickoff.
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  And again, character change because Freddy is in a different place, seemingly, not really, but a little bit.
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  And so yeah, it is interesting.
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  It's a earworm, I think.
• 14:32
  Yeah, I would argue that One Night in Bangkok, and this is where it's so funny to me because one of my favorite songs is another one that doesn't really do much for the show,
• 14:43
  is the story of chess, which opens up act one, which is just like, again, I think it has the energy, it's really starting to show off strong.
• 14:52
  And then One Night in Bangkok really, that's the first song of act two, it really starts the show, the reinvigorates the show with that energy that some of the songs like
• 15:03
  I'm looking at the list.
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  There's a lot of songs at the end of Act 1 that are just slow.
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  They are very, very slow.
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  And everyone gets to have a moment in those and that's awesome.
• 15:15
  Heaven Help My Heart with uh Lea Michele at end of Act 1, perfect.
• 15:19
  It's also just slow.
• 15:20
  It's a slow slog at the end of Act 1 that you almost need the energy to be like, and we're back and we're returning and we're getting over that hump.
• 15:29
  This is like, yeah, this is sad, but we don't need it to be this sad.
• 15:33
  Yeah, I mean, how much heartbreak can we handle?
• 15:37
  We're handling it from a lover perspective.
• 15:39
  We're handling it from a familial perspective when they start talking about her dad.
• 15:43
  ah And then vice versa when we start talking about Anatoly and his family and his wife and all of that.
• 15:50
  um So yeah, we're almost like breath of fresh air when we get to be like, this is just like a fun dancey song.
• 16:01
  that doesn't do a whole lot.
• 16:03
  And at the beginning, course, like introductions are important and getting to know what you're about to step into important.
• 16:13
  There's one other song I really want to highlight that I think is probably one of the best songs in the show as well.
• 16:21
  But the duet between Lea Michele and Hannah Cruz, I know him so well.
• 16:27
  That one, even though it was a little slow, it had a very hypnotic melody to it almost, offsetting spy music to it.
• 16:39
  And they were so good together that that one really
• 16:42
  That was like my Act 2 just song.
• 16:45
  Like that one was just really good.
• 16:47
  Yeah, and the timbre of their voices works very, very well together, which is crazy to say because Lea has such a strong solo voice and I'm not sure that I've heard her sing along
• 17:06
  others mutually very well.
• 17:10
  Usually she's the soloist or she's the featured, right?
• 17:13
  And so this, like I thought Hannah did an incredible job.
• 17:17
  holding her own and matching that tone matching the energy Especially because the song is also Physically and emotionally exhausting.
• 17:28
  So yeah kudos to the both of them I will say I think that is one of the duets that again I Did hear previously because it's just it's a powerhouse number
• 17:40
  Absolutely.
• 17:40
  I also was just looking at the list and the one song that that's Hannah's song earlier in act two like her one solo Was not even added until it came over to Broadway, which is
• 17:50
  interesting I wonder if they were like, hmm, we have this person we have this talent.
• 17:54
  We should utilize that a little bit more So Bravo to them for adding that
• 18:00
  kudos
• 18:02
  Okay, so we kind of talked about the set the lack of set um But really this show is about ratcheting up the tension between characters between Global powers, how do feel like the
• 18:17
  show does that visually when there's not much going on?
• 18:20
  Well, we've got some lighting things happening and some color choices, right?
• 18:26
  um Definitely the symbolism between blue and red throughout the entire show is very obvious.
• 18:35
  And so I would say it's the subtleties, right?
• 18:38
  Like we don't need anything to be just hit us over the head.
• 18:44
  um But.
• 18:48
  the tradition aspects.
• 18:51
  Like I would say I'm just thinking of that number with in Act 2 with the new chess candidate, Russian candidate, and they're you know, they're all drinking together and
• 19:07
  there's some like traditional kind of Russian
• 19:12
  steps that they incorporated into the choreography there.
• 19:17
  And so it's just, yeah, it's very, and then to have the CIA agent on the other side just be like so seemingly, I don't know, like feeling super Midwestern American.
• 19:30
  Yeah, it just, it's the devil's in the details, I guess.
• 19:35
  I was gonna say they did a lot with the movement that is in the show and the costumes that are being used.
• 19:41
  There's like not a lot of costumes, but like how Anatoly has a more maybe like traditional cut, like Russian, like it gave you like Russian feels when you first meet him.
• 19:53
  And then when he moves to Britain and is with Florence, it's more of like a traditional suit.
• 20:00
  And like you getting to see those little bits here and there.
• 20:04
  that felt, that kind of is what enriched the show to have the feel that they wanted it to have.
• 20:13
  Yeah, the symbolism of that, right, as they talk about Russia...
• 20:19
  representing Russia versus on the American side, like...
• 20:23
  I'm not sure that he...
• 20:25
  Freddie ever once really said that he was representing America.
• 20:30
  He was representing himself, which, again, when we talk about narcissism in America.
• 20:36
  um Whereas Russia was all about pride and...
• 20:41
  those themes and so of course like that traditional garb um would have been essential and important and required which we know early on in the story that the previous champion who
• 20:57
  did not well lack of champion the previous guy who lost disappeared so what happens to you when you don't represent your country the way that they want you to
• 21:12
  when you don't comply to their rules, you know?
• 21:16
  But that's a lot of what this story kind of deals with is compliance, you know?
• 21:20
  And it's interesting when he stops complying, he adapts a different look.
• 21:25
  And what's interesting with Florence is that when she stops playing the game with Freddie, she goes from wearing black to wearing white.
• 21:34
  And it's also really telling of just kind of her journey in that aspect and how...
• 21:39
  how you feel when you're with somebody.
• 21:41
  So there's a lot going on here.
• 21:44
  But also part of the story you had mentioned earlier, I think it's worth noting, is you mentioned the projections.
• 21:50
  And so I do want to address this just because we had uh a guest that came and was in one of the boxes and came to sit behind us because during Act 1, there's a lot of projections
• 22:01
  behind the band.
• 22:03
  And they do have a screen that comes down in the front as well.
• 22:06
  show some of it, but there's a lot of projections behind the bands as well that you can't see from there.
• 22:11
  Do you think that the projections are essential to the story, and do you think that it's like a bad call to have them so far back that people can't see them?
• 22:19
  I wouldn't say that they're essential.
• 22:21
  think it's giving a little bit more, right?
• 22:26
  Like when we talk about that concert-esque vibe, I think that is the piece that makes it lean more musical theater.
• 22:37
  But still, again, like when you have seats where you can't even see it, is it really contributing at all?
• 22:45
  Like we know that this side is blue and we know that that side is red.
• 22:50
  Do we need flags in the background telling us that?
• 22:53
  I'm not sure.
• 22:55
  Agreed.
• 22:56
  Agreed.
• 22:56
  think that it would have been different if it was up front a little bit more.
• 22:59
  And the things that you could see, I thought were more beneficial.
• 23:02
  Like when they brought down that one square and they brought it over the people and it looked like a chess board at the end, that was a cool effect.
• 23:09
  That was something that you could visually see.
• 23:11
  And like, to give you guys an idea, like the projections on the back stream are like newscasters talking about different stories.
• 23:18
  Or sometimes it was like,
• 23:20
  It was like the same image that was on the small screen but farther back and it was a little bit bigger and like it gave you it kind of wretched up with the tension again, but
• 23:28
  it wasn't necessarily needed.
• 23:31
  But then I do wonder, like, did it distract from that overall, the feel of the show when you have so much going on, but it's not being utilized by every single person that's
• 23:38
  watching the show.
• 23:40
  Honestly, I feel like half the time I didn't actually realize that there were even projections on the back.
• 23:48
  Until like maybe there was like a brighter light or something that like distracted me towards that direction.
• 23:57
  True.
• 23:58
  So before we wrap it up then, we do need to talk about pacing.
• 24:00
  This is a show with a lot of slow songs, a lot of ballads.
• 24:06
  It's almost a three hour show.
• 24:08
  RJ, do you feel like this was a good use of the pacing time?
• 24:12
  Do you think that it could have been done a little bit better?
• 24:14
  As much as I love this show, I will say I do think that there could have been a little bit of better pace and maybe some songs could have either been combined, cut or just
• 24:21
  eliminated, you know?
• 24:22
  um
• 24:24
  but I'm always interested in your thoughts on pacing.
• 24:27
  I mean, I agree.
• 24:28
  I think it could have been...
• 24:30
  I think we could have taken a ballot or two or three or four out.
• 24:35
  uh We get it.
• 24:39
  Y'all are basically angsty teenagers.
• 24:43
  um
• 24:45
  and the political piece.
• 24:48
  I think the political piece was actually about the right amount.
• 24:54
  It wasn't like super overbearing.
• 24:57
  but the love triangle.
• 25:00
  I don't know how many more songs I could have heard about being disappointed in the other person and being in love with this person and am I actually in love with this person or am
• 25:11
  I just in love with the idea or you know so yeah could it could have been a little faster for my taste
• 25:20
  Yeah, I do think that we could have cut some of those pieces out.
• 25:22
  Like this was not a show that needed 20 ballads about the love triangle.
• 25:29
  I think by the time we got to the part where Freddie finally gives Anatoly the advice, I was like, I thought, dear God, if we have another love ballad, I'm going to like, but like
• 25:39
  we didn't.
• 25:39
  And I was like, okay, fine.
• 25:40
  But like there was a lot of the show.
• 25:41
  I think it could have been in two hour musical.
• 25:45
  I think there was enough material you could have cut out in 40 minutes of this and you still have gotten the same show.
• 25:50
  And I know there's some people out there that would argue that like, we want the integrity of the original show and I get that, but like, maybe there's some chances here that we
• 25:59
  could have changed, some things we could have changed about the show and still have the same story.
• 26:03
  And it would have been a more easily digestible show.
• 26:08
  That being said, still one of my favorite shows that we saw.
• 26:11
  I'm going to give it a B plus.
• 26:14
  I've been thinking about it.
• 26:15
  I don't think it's an A show for me.
• 26:17
  I think some of the performances are A plus.
• 26:20
  I don't think it's an A plus show.
• 26:23
  But how about for you.
• 26:24
  Hmm.
• 26:25
  Maybe A minus.
• 26:26
  Now I'm backtracking.
• 26:29
  I would say it's hard because like production wise I'd give it like maybe a B but talent wise
• 26:40
  B+.
• 26:41
  Don't tell Lea Michele you just gave her a B+.
• 26:44
  Sorry, girl.
• 26:47
  Would you go see it again?
• 26:53
  Probably not.
• 26:55
  I mean, again, would I have seen it to begin with without Lea, Michelle and Erin and Hannah and like probably not.
• 27:04
  Like if I wasn't drawn to the names, I probably would have crossed this one off my list.
• 27:09
  So I can't, unless it's somebody that I really want to see, probably not.
• 27:17
  is not a show that you're going to be running towards when it tours.
• 27:21
  Correct.
• 27:23
  I'll be like, well then, nice.
• 27:26
  for somebody else.
• 27:27
  ah That's fair.
• 27:31
  I think that this does have a really complicated story that it's not always easily digestible.
• 27:36
  And it is about the talent.
• 27:37
  It truly is.
• 27:37
  And we've talked about this with a few other shows.
• 27:39
  Oh, Mary touring and stuff like that.
• 27:41
  Like you need a really good cast.
• 27:44
  You almost need like a stunt casting even for tours to make a show like this seem successful.
• 27:50
  That's why we said last year that Audra McDonald's Gypsy was probably not going to be a touring show, just because you were going to see Audra.
• 27:58
  And with 95 % of the people that we talked to going to see it for Lea Michele, I don't think it's going to happen when it's just a random person in there.
• 28:06
  correct.
• 28:09
  And with that, we've reached the end of our chess discussion.
• 28:11
  Stay tuned for future episodes of the BSB Podcast.
• 28:13
  Thanks again for joining us here in our box seats.
• 28:15
  Until next curtain call.