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86: Oh, the Cartilage · Dungeonpedia

0:00
SPEAKER_00: You the adventurer.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Do you desire knowledge of immense worlds and arcane power?
0:07
SPEAKER_00: A codex of untold stories and lore?
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Or perhaps simply easy listening for your daily commute.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Then feast your eyes, or more accurately, yes, upon Dungeon Pedia.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Shit's about to get nerdy in here.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: And I'm Travis Peasley.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: We did it again.
0:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh y'all, we we don't try to do this.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: I I hope you guys know that.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: In fact, we actively try to not do this.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we really, really try so hard not to do it.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, do we try?
1:03
SPEAKER_03: And it's one of those things where I feel like this wouldn't be an issue if um the pandemic didn't happen and we had still had our backlog from before.
1:15
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:15
SPEAKER_03: We ate through at the beginning of the pandemic.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: We ate through that backlog so quick.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: So then, you know, whenever things happen, it maybe is like a week, but then something else happens.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: And then it's another week.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh so for those that uh wished me well in my recovery, I am fine.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: It was just a very tiny procedure, nothing too big or bad or anything.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: But you're doing great.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Definitely made me not want to record that week.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: And then the um the next week, which you know, I I mean I realize I've been like silent on Twitter in general.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm you uh I'm usually the thing is I'm usually on there, like scrolling and even if you're not and looking at things.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: But it's like sometimes I post in my brain and then I don't actually post, but rest assured I'm usually there.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Um I I thought about making a a Twitter post about this, but um in in the moment I didn't I wasn't even thinking about it, and now it just kind of feels weird.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: But um my uh the the week after um Travis had his little medical thing we meant to record and uh my guinea pig passed away.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: Um It was really unfortunate.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: It was he was he I mean he was he was older, he was he was old, and it wasn't it wasn't entirely unexpected given that, but it's just you know, that doesn't make it easy.
2:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's still surprised like it can still catch uh off guard how much it still hurts.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I was just like, and and it it it it was actually time-wise not too long before I would have been coming over to record anyway, so I was like, Yeah, no, it's not happening.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: It it was just very poorly timed, and everything was just not working out in our favor, unfortunately.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: So, and I I figured you guys didn't want me to open the episode like, oh everyone, and welcome to Nudge Media.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, because that's kind of everything sucks and everything ends.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: Everything is terrible.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, so um that's uh that's what happened.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Um so we're terribly sorry.
3:25
SPEAKER_03: But we're back now.
3:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: Yay.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: Um I swear to god, if something happens next week, I'm gonna be so fucking pissed.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh wait, no, knock on wood.
3:34
SPEAKER_03: Luckily, we have a nice wood table.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, luckily this table is just wood, so and it's nice real wood.
3:39
SPEAKER_03: Um But we're we're we're here and uh commit that as opposed to fake wood.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Foe wood?
3:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, sometimes you need faux wood to get the job done.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
3:52
SPEAKER_03: Um Well then, does that transition well into our topic?
3:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, depending on your proclivities, maybe out today we are talking about chokers.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: Which I am not wearing any chokers.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: Chokers.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, the necklaces.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: No, not the necklaces.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm not wearing any of the necklaces, but we are not talking about the necklaces.
4:14
SPEAKER_03: I Okay, I'm gonna need context and information because Okay.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we'll be provided, but also I just had a thought of like, what if somehow we were able to scrounge together like the the history and evolution of like fashion in Dungeons and Dragons?
4:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh god.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: That could be actually extremely interesting.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: That I would actually if anyone has any information on that, please.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if there's if there's any way to actually like I don't even know how you would begin to research that.
4:44
SPEAKER_03: Right?
4:45
SPEAKER_03: Like I mean the same way you do like real-world fashion history.
4:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it would be like, all right, so in the this book, they're wearing this, and then in this supplement, and then in this supplement that came out one year later for the exact same edition, they're wearing something that looks completely different aesthetically.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, so chokers.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Chokers.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: I I actually don't think I've ever heard of a choker in DD.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: So this is here we go.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh chokers first appear in the Dungeons and Dragons basic supplement creature catalog, which was published in 1993.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, they were chaotically aligned humanoid creatures that lived in subterranean environments.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh they were about six feet tall when fully stretched out.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: What?
5:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: Wait for it.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, but were proportioned very differently to humans.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: So their heads and torsos were around the size of a human baby's.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh what?
5:52
SPEAKER_02: But their limbs were long and spindly.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: So the very short torso little head, long legs and arms.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, that's nightmare fuel.
6:02
SPEAKER_03: That's nightmare fuel.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: Get that shit out of here.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: Well, this shit's not gonna be out of here for another like hour, so buckle in.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, chokers were a quote, stony brown in color.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Um choker choker limbs had flexible cartilage of bone.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: No.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: Who designed these?
6:27
SPEAKER_01: What is this monstrous?
6:29
SPEAKER_02: Someone who hates God.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: This is I mean, based based on some testimony, everyone involved in Dungeons and Dragons early on hated God.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, okay.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: Based on the testimony of of like, you know, frightened suburban moms.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we have flexible cartilage in place of bones.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, and thus could fit into tight spaces.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: Naturally.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, yes, where they would lie in wait for a lone target.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh when such a target appeared, they would surprise them and begin to.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Any guesses?
7:05
SPEAKER_02: Choke them.
7:06
SPEAKER_03: Ding ding ding ding ding, you win! Yay! That's what I wanted.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so okay.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Alright.
7:14
SPEAKER_03: So hence the name.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, got it, got it.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: Also, I feel like it's worth I mean, maybe not.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if someone's gonna I I this is the this sounds hate.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: If someone's gonna come be smarmy, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, but like technically it's not choking, technically it's asphyxiation, whatever.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Because choking is when you like choke on food.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: I actually didn't realize there was a distinct definition between the two.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: I thought they were kind of just like interchangeable.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, they're they're like it's like a connotation, but choking is technically when something blocks your airway, but asphyxiation is when something crushes it.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: So like anacondas, like they're they asphyxiate their prey.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Right, because they're crushing rather than okay rather than shoving stuff down.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: However, if you try to eat an anaconda and it gets stuck in your throat, then you're choking on it.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: See, there you go.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: This is how you look the difference between choking and asphyxiation.
8:12
SPEAKER_03: So you use whipping things to talk to talk about whether or biting things to talk about whether or not it's venomous or poisonous.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say to to determine the difference between choking and asphyxiation, we use the uh we use Travis's Anaconda model.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh my.
8:35
SPEAKER_03: Um so uh no, we we we use it in the throat or outside of the throat.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so just so and I don't mean this to be mean because I'm that person who gets technical about a lot of things, but when Lewin says be smarmy, she's describing herself.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: Right.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: But I just wanted to headway anyone who is gonna, you know, tweet us and whatever.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, um, they start to strangle their prey.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh they would then cut them up with sharp cartilage poking out of their fingers, and would cart off the pieces to eat.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Freddy Krueger.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, no, the oh yeah, this is literally Freddy Krueger in that one the the one dream sequence.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean I read.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: He turns into a wacky, wavy, inflatable armate.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, yes.
9:22
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, I realized that.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: I started doing the motion and I accidentally bumped the mic.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: I hope nobody heard that.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Just so everyone knows I was doing the motion.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: I realized that Freddy Krueger made the claws himself and they're not like attached to him, but that's just what that reminded me of.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: No, I mean it's it's upsetting.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: It's very upsetting.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: Um so uh however, if the target offered too great of resistance, the choker would flee to a point where if they cannot subdue their target within two to six rounds, they give up and run away.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: So they're they're not very they don't they don't stick it out so much.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: They're very much like they're they're after that uh weak prey.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very easy.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: Um they're described as quote, vaguely intelligent, end quote.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: Um they haven't they have an intelligence score of three.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yep.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Having a simple language but not making or using tools, which I take umbrage with this because I feel like a three is way too way too low.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Like we have dealt with things where they call them not intelligent and their intelligence was around the same.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: So where's the consistency here?
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:38
SPEAKER_03: There is none.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I feel like this number stays pretty weird for the most of it.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Or f not not pretty weird.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Like it this their number, their actual intelligence score, stays at odds with how their intelligence is described.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like what is what is the rule?
10:55
SPEAKER_03: There is none.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: I guess.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they're vaguely intelligent, they have a simple language, they don't make or use tools other than themselves.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
11:05
SPEAKER_02: They apparently use make and use finger knife gloves, but Yeah.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: Apparently.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Um interestingly, they could move, quote, through stone at one-third of their movement speed.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: And I typed this out when initially reading this, I was later proven wrong.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I can only assume this means crawling through crevices rather than burrowing through solid rock.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh I was later corrected.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: Um So do they actually burrow through solid rock?
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Apparently.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Also, included in my notes, um, the art for them that is in creature catalog is fucking hysterical.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, the art didn't actually load for me.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
11:49
SPEAKER_03: What the fuck?
11:50
SPEAKER_03: It's fucking hysterical.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: What?
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm just looking at various pictures of them at this point, and also it brought up a whole lot of like actual chokers to buy.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: I yeah.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: I guess the word chokers and catalog kind of.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, true.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, here's a catalog of choker necklaces.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: What the hell?
12:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I realize how disgusting these things are, but I also kind of like them.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I don't know.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that isn't that what we say about like all of anything that's gross?
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, pretty much any gross, very monstrous thing in Dungeons and Dragons.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: We're like, this is gross.
12:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
12:32
SPEAKER_03: I like Jublex.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: I don't think any of us really liked him.
12:36
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he can hang.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: So, um moving on from that very that very good art, his fucking face.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: He looks like angry, handsome Squidward.
12:47
SPEAKER_03: He does.
12:48
SPEAKER_03: That's an apt description.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: That was my first thought.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Was handsome Squidward but angry.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
13:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: It's it's something to behold.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: Like if you do if you don't have time to look at it right now, you should later.
13:09
SPEAKER_02: But it's like naked Slender Man meets handsome Squidward and he got angry.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: With all of the teeth.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, they have teeth.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Um That's what it looks like.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: That okay.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: It's not they're not described until later, but they do have teeth.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: So Chokers next appear in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Mistara Monstrous Compendium Appendix.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Jesus fucking Christ.
13:29
SPEAKER_03: That's a mouth move.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: Mistara.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: I actually don't think I've come across that uh that book.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm just broadening your horizons today.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: The Mistara, huh?
13:40
SPEAKER_02: So this was published in 1994.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: This uh appendix both adds new details and clarifies some information that I personally found confusing from the creature catalog.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: Um their alignment has been changed to chaotic evil, and their size given is three and a half feet tall, which is their resting height.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: So that that's where the fully stretched out comes in.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: So when not um unfurled, let's say, they are three and a half feet tall.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: So that's when they're stretched, they grow like three more feet, basically.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
14:16
SPEAKER_03: I don't like that.
14:17
SPEAKER_03: Just so that we're clear.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: Just in case it was not made clear earlier when you were repeatedly shouting, no, you don't like this.
14:25
unknown: Yeah.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: So uh moving on to more things that Taylor probably won't like.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: Um they're shocker.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: Their knobby limbs are cartilaginous, obviously, which uh I described earlier.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, but while their limbs are made of cartilage, they possess bony skulls, spines, and rib cages.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: What are these things?
14:47
SPEAKER_02: Shookers.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean aberrations, technically.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's very these things are aberrations.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: They are the most aberrant.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's not true.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: I've I've seen aberrations.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: But they are fucking up there.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: Even beyond the um the strict classification of aberrations, like these things are aberrations.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Of God.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: Of God, yeah.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: This is just spitting in the face of God.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: So, um, due to the lack of supportive bones in their limbs, chokers appear slumped over and walk with a strange fluid gait.
15:21
SPEAKER_04: Oh.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm imagining Octodad.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Don't ruin Octodad like that.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: And now we have Octodad.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: Do you guys ever think about how it's weird that they just made a video game about like a guy?
15:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't get what's like it's it's fun, I guess, if you're into that just like strict like life simulator.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: But it's weird how.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: Hey, life sims are pretty fun simulated.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and people love dads.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: Dads are in.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, moving from Octodad.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh, chokers are very solitary and shy, and also kind of afraid of loud noises, which same.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, and some underground communities or like groups of people traveling underground take advantage of this by making a lot of noise to scare off chokers.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: However, this tends to attract even worse monsters.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: God damn it.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of the double-edged sword of like, well, you can it's like the the do you do you like play dead or do you try to make yourself look big kind of thing?
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Like, do you make a lot of noise or do you try to be quiet?
16:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can't you can't win.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: What do the worst creatures look like?
16:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I will say that the worst creatures typically sta like that you can find in the type of environments they live in, which, you know, underground is a lot in the underdark, are typically stats-wise more dangerous than these things.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: But it I mean, that's fair, because you have like the mind flayers and And they also don't tend to give up if they can't kill you within two or six.
16:50
SPEAKER_03: Okay, fine.
16:51
SPEAKER_03: I'll deal I'll deal with this.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: All you have to do is just like survive for six rounds or so and they'll they'll leave.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: So this book clarifies that the choker actually strangles their prey to death before they cut them up with their protruding finger-like cartilage bits.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: Um boy.
17:09
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I'm just stupid, but for some reason that wasn't clear to me before.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: So the wording in the last one was just that they strangled them and then cut them up didn't clarify that.
17:19
SPEAKER_02: They strangled them to death first.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: I guess my mind just autofilled that that would be the case.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Mine mine didn't for some reason.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: But I it's good clarification.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: I guess the the phrasing after that in the creature catalog made reference to like subdue.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: So I guess I I guess I a s that made me assume that they'd be which I mean the word subdue is vague because you could argue that something that's dead is subdued.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: Very subdued.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: But you know, I get for some reason that wasn't clear to me.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: So if if you're if you're with me on that one, they do strangle you to death first before they start dismembering it, which is polite, I guess.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: I would prefer that if it's gonna happen.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: So it stated that once a choker starts to strangle their victim, their hold can only be broken by incapacitating or killing them.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: So they like they're like locked in.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: They hold on for dear life.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Like babies do with their little you know, you know what babies do.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: Do I where they like they have the instinct where they're like grab.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're grabby where their hands like lock, you know.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: They have that grabby instinct.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they just like hold on to like your finger.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's also clarified that chokers do indeed carve through solid rock with their weird cartilage, their sharp cartilage fingies.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: Um that doesn't that doesn't make sense to me, but okay.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: Alright.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean because like a purple worm burrowing through solid rock makes sense to me because they like they like eat it and it gets ground up and all their bits in there, you know?
18:53
SPEAKER_02: But like just slicing through it is like, okay, you have some pretty fucking like whetstone bits now, I guess.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: So their cartilage is really fucking strong.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Like much stronger than I initially would have even thought.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't make sense to me, but apparently it it's how it uh okay.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, yeah, sure.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: So as I mentioned, chokers are very solitary creatures.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: Um we've arrived through one of my favorite parts early.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh in order to attract a mate, they have a special call.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh their main call is a keening wine that all other creatures find extremely irritating.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: Same.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: So when a choker hears the cry of another, they answer, getting gradually closer until they finally meet.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh after a few months of gestation, the female gives birth to uh two to six young.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: After this, the family unit stays together for about three years, after which the young are mature, and the adults well, I guess they're all adults at that point, but like the parents split off to find different mates.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't find any evidence of um mating for life or anything like that.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Or well, I mean, yes, but also sh like strong sexual dimorphism or anything.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: Um so I'm I guess they I mean, I guess.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: Kind of strange that, you know, they're together for three years to raise the children, then they're like, okay, separate and let's go find other people.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: They're just like sick of their uh they're just like sick of their current mate.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: They're like, eh.
20:27
SPEAKER_03: So I know you're not exactly a um zoologist, but like, is there any evidence like is there any like cases in like actual animal biology of that sort of thing?
20:39
SPEAKER_03: Of like staying together for a long time and then separating?
20:42
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I feel like um like songbirds do that.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: Like they both like gather food for the babies, but they don't mate for life like swans and ducks and shit.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: Wait, do ducks mate for life?
20:54
SPEAKER_02: I know swans do.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't fucking know, but I feel like songbirds do that.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh, no, I found one.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: People.
21:00
unknown: Okay.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: You got me there.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: They're probably just sick of them at that point.
21:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, so chokers have extremely fast metabolisms, uh, so much so that a goblin corpse, mind the size of that, is only about two days worth of food for them.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: Which I mean, to be fair, goblins aren't very big, but like, that's a lot of meat.
21:23
SPEAKER_03: That still seems like a lot of meat.
21:26
SPEAKER_03: That's uh that's that's um upsetting.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: Wow, Taylor's upset by something this episode.
21:33
SPEAKER_03: Shocking.
21:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you just wait.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, as it happens, uh, it's funny that the goblin corpse was their example, um, because goblin is their favorite type of meat, though they will prey on other humanoids as well, of course, you know.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Naturally, can't be picky.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, so a goblin legend purports that chokers are descended from goblins.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh the the uh myth is that a goblin tribe fell on hard times and turned to cannibalism, as you do.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: And as their psyches were warped by, you know, cannibalism or whatever, so too were their bodies.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Which is how they became these things.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, over time they stopped eating one another, but still maintain that craving for the flesh of regular goblins.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: So okay, so we have a creation myth coming from goblins.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, goblins are weird already, so I guess they wouldn't be terribly surprised, but that does seem like a very strange sort of like evolutionary line there.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: Well we they developed a taste for blood, so they became uglier.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: I I swear that's an elongated.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: That's a curse that I've heard about from somewhere.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh I'll I'll probably I'll probably tell you more later.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: Um.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: Alright.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: So next we're getting into 3.5.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, third edition, but it's one of those that like, you know.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: It was essentially just a reprint.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: So if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: The entry for chokers in the 3.5 monster manual, which was published in 2003, is actually pretty pared down as far as the lore that's not combat focused, which, you know, happens.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, they're described as having the head and torso proportions of a halfling, not a baby, a halfling.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: Which a little better.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: A little different.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, and their gangly limbs now end in star fish bhib starfish-shaped pads covered in sharp spines, which they use to easily climb a variety of surfaces.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay, see I was seeing pictures of that, and I was like, I haven't heard this yet.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: You're like, wait, those did this come from.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: Those aren't Freddy Kruger finger finger knives.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: So now they're just evolved into tentacle sharp things.
23:59
SPEAKER_03: Hey Lewin, guess what?
24:00
SPEAKER_03: What I don't like this.
24:02
SPEAKER_03: Are you upset?
24:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm upset.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: Me too.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: So was I.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: Also, I feel like it's worth noting.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: I sh I feel I should have mentioned this earlier.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: I think at a certain point, I forget if it was in 3.5, it might have been like one earlier than this.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: No, I think it I think it might be in in third edition that they start implementing this.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: But essentially their um like primary attack with their limbs is treated as a tentacle attack, even though they're not formally tentacles.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: So they are technically tentacle monsters.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: That's not where I was going, but sure.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: But that's how I'm concluding it.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: I that's just so weird.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Like starfish-shaped pads, like Yes.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, I kind of like them just like looking at the pictures and stuff, but they're still so fucking weird that Yeah.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: No, it's about to get weirder.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, so bear in mind what I said about their size.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, they weigh about 35 pounds.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: So they're very light.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: They're very um that doesn't okay.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they don't have much bone mass, so I guess the cartilage doesn't weigh as much as bone, is that right?
25:22
SPEAKER_03: That makes sense.
25:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's not as dense and like it's it's yeah.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes sense, I think.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, so they are, as we discussed earlier, aberrations, usually chaotic evil, and they now speak undercommon.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: So instead of having their own like simple language, they just speak under common.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, so their strategy in this, because like I said, this uh entry for them is mostly focused on combat and things like that.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: So they lie in wait uh close to the ceilings of caves, particularly in like natural cave entrances and like archways, what have you.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: Um for a chance to grab prey from above.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: It feels like before they had more of a horizontal approach.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: It was like a jump out of the wall sort of sort of jump scare.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: And now it's like a from above jump scare.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: It's like a, you know, like in a there's something on the ceiling horror movie where you like slowly look up and yay.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Or like Batman in the Batman games when you're just going around hanging people off of statues.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: I like that better.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's funny that you mentioned that.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, so they prefer solitary targets as I discussed earlier.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, but if pressed, read hungry, uh, they will grab for the last member of a group to walk underneath them.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: So like everybody'll go by.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: And then the person who's bringing up the rear, which is usually not Dahlia because she's a barbarian and she has the most HP, gets snatched up.
26:56
SPEAKER_03: This is why I never go last in fucking haunted houses.
26:59
SPEAKER_03: Right.
27:00
SPEAKER_03: This is the ship.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: This is the reason why.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: This is the shit that happens.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, so their spindly arms give them a reach of 10 feet.
27:08
SPEAKER_02: They're not 10 feet long, but they have a reach of 10 feet, sure.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: It makes sense.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: Chokers are described as quote, not particularly dexterous, end quote.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Though they have a dex of 14, which seems pretty particularly dexterous if I do say so.
27:22
SPEAKER_03: Pretty dexterous.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that seems pretty dexterous to me as well.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: But they are able to move supernaturally quickly, uh, gaining an extra standard or bonus action during their turn each round, which I have to say, like Jesus.
27:37
SPEAKER_02: I guess you could say that Yeah, I can't think of any grounds that they're not particularly dexterous.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: Particularly dexterous.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Because they're fast and they're flexible.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: That's like literally describing dexterity.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: Right, so whatever.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, as we discussed earlier, terms are subjective and things don't matter.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: So they have a racial plus eight bonus to climb checks on account of aforementioned starfish-shaped hand pads, and can always choose to take a 10 on a climb check even if they are threatened or otherwise distracted.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: So they're very good climbers.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh, they have a plus four improved grab, and on a successful grapple can use their constrict ability to choke a creature, or excuse me, asphyxiate a creature of large or smaller size, dealing one d3 plus three damage as well as restricting them from speaking, thereby preventing the use of spells with verbal components.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Damn.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: 1d3 plus 3 damage.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, they're also asphyxiating, so I guess at that point you would also have to include in the whole like whatever how long can you hold your breath thing.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh because I mean, if you're asphyxiating, then you're relying on basically whatever breath you had left.
28:47
SPEAKER_03: Right.
28:48
SPEAKER_03: So But I do feel like asphyxiating does imply a sort of trauma that makes you go run out of breath faster.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: Probably.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't I don't know what the rules are on that for you know that.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: But I will say they're not particularly like they're obviously, and you would consider them in Kvabe as being pretty dangerous, but they're they're not they're not big numbers, you know what I mean?
29:10
SPEAKER_01: No, they're definitely not big numbers, but the fact that they can stop you from casting spells with verbal components, which almost all of them.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: A whole bunch of them, yeah.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: Um so they're they are described as being very greedy, and a person who manages to spot one may be able to bribe it with food, uh, and they can be persuaded to give information about the area around their layer.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, at least I can reason with them.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: So they are intelligent enough to be reasoned with.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: This is good.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: With their I I I don't remember if it's a three in 3.5, but like their whopping intelligence of a three.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: They can be.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm pretty sure that there are dogs and uh D.
29:53
SPEAKER_03: Blink dogs that yeah, blink dogs are.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty sure blink dogs have an intelligence of like six.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: I want to say, yeah.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: I know displacer beast no blink dogs have an intelligence of more than that.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Because I remember displacer beasts have an intelligence of six.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: In conclusion, nothing makes sense.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, numbers don't matter, and I mean, and I can even understand the difference, like having a different of like, like you wouldn't necessarily describe an aberrant creature as having an animal intelligence necessarily.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like there's there can be different adjective words, but like the numbers have to mean something.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: Apparently they don't.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, it's almost like it's all it's all make-believe, and you can just do whatever the fuck you want.
30:33
SPEAKER_03: I mean, literally though.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it's almost like it is that way.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Almost.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: Almost, but not quite.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: So I I feel like this isn't even a surprise at this point, because I feel like this has been in like the last like at least four episodes that I've done, but we have an ecology article! We love ecology articles.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: In this house, we respect the ecology article in the dungeon pedia house.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: But we will have to wait to respect it until after we take a break.
31:03
SPEAKER_03: We also respect the ad break in this house.
31:05
SPEAKER_03: We do.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: It's unfortunate sometimes.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: But we respect it.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, thank you so much for checking out our episode on chokers.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: We appreciate you being respectful and waiting for the ecology article.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: I know we're all very excited.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, very much so.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: Also, I know what else I'm excited for.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: And that is metallicdicames.com.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm always respectful for metallicdice games.com.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: Always.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: Always respect the dice.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Respect the dice and the dice accessories.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: God damn it.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: We did it again.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: We didn't plan that.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: This is it's never planned.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: We always just mind link it and it's a good thing.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Hey, listen, it happens.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it be that way.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: We only have one brain cell here, and sometimes we both grab it at the same time.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: It happens.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: So, um also dice shopping happens because dice are beautiful, and you typically need a lot of them, in my opinion, for Dudgets and Dragons.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: And when you have dice, you need cases to keep them in.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: You need like dice hour, you need bags.
32:09
SPEAKER_03: You and the it's spring.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: You just did spring cleaning.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: You found all those random dice that you didn't remember purchasing.
32:16
SPEAKER_03: You need something to hold those in.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: So you can find more.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: And then get more, and then get more things to hold them in, and it's just uh the the snake continues to eat its tail.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: So uh whenever you go down that spiral, you can use offer code Dungeon Pedia for 10% off your entire order at metallicdice games.com, where you, as we mentioned, you can get all your dice and dice related accessories.
32:38
SPEAKER_03: Uh, of course, we do still have our Patreon if you'd like to support us more directly, and that is at Dungeonpedia on Patreon.
32:44
SPEAKER_03: We have a couple of tiers, um, but mostly the thing that you can find on there is our notes, which are really helpful if you're really just wanting to see the breakdown of how we organize our information.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: You want to see the breakdown of how I spiral Lewin's impeccable bibliographies.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: And the uh random snarky comments that we leave in parenthesicals and shit.
33:09
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
33:10
SPEAKER_03: Hey.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you gotta.
33:12
SPEAKER_03: And if you want even more of our snark, you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Dungeonpedia.
33:16
SPEAKER_03: You will find it there in spades.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Always.
33:20
SPEAKER_03: And if you want to be snarky at us, well, you can email us at dungeonpedia.podcast at gmail.com.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: We also take episode suggestions in addition to snark or general in anything.
33:32
SPEAKER_03: Hi.
33:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: Hi.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: Hi.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: Um don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you listen to get the notifications when our new episodes go live.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to be better at being uh being a a podcast.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: Honestly, at this point, yeah.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: This the 2021's been a year.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay, guys, you guys get it.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: We we all get it.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to be better at having a schedule.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: It just it's hard sometimes.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: And also, if those platforms allow it, don't forget to rate us and leave a review.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: That helps us greatly to be noticed by other people scrolling through those apps as well.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: So then they can send us more snark and episode suggestions so we can just make more content.
34:12
SPEAKER_03: And the snake snark continues to eat its tail.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: Snark Snake, fuck.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: But also, spread the word.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Tell your friends, tell your family, tell your co-workers.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: Tell your your friends who wear like tight necklaces like high up on the neck, you know?
34:27
SPEAKER_02: They're like, hey, you're like, hey, I see that.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: That's a choker.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: You know what else is a choker?
34:33
SPEAKER_02: And then they are like, What the fuck are you talking about?
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Then they're very confused until you explain that it's a thing from DD and not some weird, strange thing that you're gonna go into.
34:44
SPEAKER_03: And then they still might be a little confused and concerned, but then you can play the soothing sounds of Alexander Nakarada, who we thank all the time for our theme song, Blacksmith.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: It is nice and soothing.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: But with that, I think we've all been patient enough.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: Let's go check out that ecology article.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Back to the podcast.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: All right.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: Is everyone ready to be respectful?
35:05
SPEAKER_02: We have an ecology article.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Yay!
35:07
SPEAKER_01: All right, let's uh let's hit this ecology article.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: I believe this is also a repeat author.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, so we have the ecology of the chokers, which was published in or excuse me, the ecology of chokers, um, which was included in Dragon Magazine issue number 232, which was published in 2004, and is written by Eric Kaggle?
35:29
SPEAKER_02: Kagle?
35:30
SPEAKER_01: I feel like we've I believe we have mentioned this before, and I think we had the same issue trying to pronounce his last name.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: I have no idea.
35:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm pretty sure I remembered verbatim.
35:39
SPEAKER_03: Kaggle Kagle.
35:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:41
SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Eric.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to pronounce your last name.
35:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, and it also has some very cool illustrations by Peter Bergpig.
35:50
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Some sometimes like I just like to make note of the art in some of these.
35:55
SPEAKER_02: No, yeah.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: The art for this one is is very cool.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: The art is pretty cool in a lot of them, so I understand.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: And should really make a habit of doing that more often, honestly.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: So thank you, Peter.
36:05
SPEAKER_02: And also Eric.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: And I'm sorry again, Eric, I don't know.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure I'll say.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: So, um, chokers in third edition look full like full-on Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, which is on in full display in their art and description in this article.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: Um boy.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: Their head shape is described as elongated and quote, equine, with internal ears that indicate poor hearing, uh, beady black eyes that sit in the front of their skull, which indicates excellent predator vision.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: And a mouth full of sharp and jagged teeth.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: So that's where their chompers are.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, yeah.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: The chompers are in the mouth usually, but I'm saying this is where their teeth get officially introduced in the text.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Like we are officially told that they have these teeth.
36:53
SPEAKER_03: They have the teeth in their mouth, weirdos.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: Hey, as opposed to some of the other things we've talked about where they literally just like absorb things through their skin after melting them, like you never know.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: You know, Travis, I'm proud of you for taking the high road because I was literally just gonna make a vagina dentata joke.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: And I just did, so there you go.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, they are described as standing at three to four feet tall, which I could only assume is their height not at full extension, though this isn't explicitly stated, but like I have to assume that this is their like resting height, yeah.
37:31
SPEAKER_02: And that they're still like six, six and a half feet tall when fully elongated.
37:36
SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
37:37
SPEAKER_02: It's just not about that phrasing.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, they walk with their same like strange gait, and it says that they prefer to have at least three limbs touching a surface at any time.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: So they kind of walk on their on like all fours, essentially.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: So just this this this is nightmare fuel, man.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: So just this fucking s like slender man, now a little bit of like Squidward slender, Slendy.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: Like Squidward Slendy.
38:06
SPEAKER_02: And like the rake looking thing, just, you know, just kind of oodling its way.
38:13
SPEAKER_02: Oodling.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: Why?
38:14
SPEAKER_02: Why?
38:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, my thought was kind of like a, you know, like a oodling.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: A wave motion, and for some reason a line and a wave translated to a noodle.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: And then I said oodling.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:28
SPEAKER_02: Somehow it's-oodling towards you with a mouthful of sharp teeth.
38:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh, it it produced such a visceral reaction.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: I know.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Like fight or flight.
38:38
SPEAKER_02: That's why I said it.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh chokers are described as newcomers to the underdark, and scholars notice their numbers growing at rapid rates with no good reason for their sudden appearance.
38:48
SPEAKER_03: Um Yeah, I agree.
38:50
SPEAKER_03: There's no good reason.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: Which I gotta say, like the, you know, for this the scholars, it's like their numbers are increasing because they're fucking.
38:59
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, um, one of the origins provided in this article presents a slight variation on the one from the Mistara appendix.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so far, Taylor's been the one that's been mostly upset uh in this episode, but now I think I'm going to upset Travis, just letting you know in advance.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, either deep gnomes, topside gnomes, or halflings were warped into chokers by cannibalism andor the quote weird magic of the underdark.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, so these guys might be descended from gnomes.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: How?
39:30
SPEAKER_02: No.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: Weird magic in cannibalism, Travis.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Weren't you listening?
39:33
SPEAKER_01: That no, that doesn't make sense.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: I but it made more sense with goblins.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh I gotcha there.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: Shit.
39:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: So I don't like it, but fine.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: So all of these groups, however, deny these claims with varying degrees of vehemence.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: In particular, the deep numbers really hate this one.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I bet.
39:57
SPEAKER_02: Another purported theory is that chokers were created by unfortunate those It was it was a wizard, wasn't it?
40:04
SPEAKER_02: Drow experimentation.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: It was a drow wizard.
40:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, however, this is denied by the drow and mostly substantiated by the fact that chokers tend to linger near drow settlements, which in my opinion could also be explained as simply like they want to hang out near a food source.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: So it definitely like the the drow, like the drow do a lot of fucked up stuff, but I do feel like this is very much just like something bad's happening in the underdog.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: Let's blame it on the drow.
40:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like which I mean fair, because a lot of the time it is.
40:37
SPEAKER_03: And this is one of those things where it's like it it makes more sense, like from a biological standpoint, like the drow kind of like slaughter their own and like leave them to die.
40:48
SPEAKER_03: It's easy, like easy.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's low-hanging fruit.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: It really is.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: And there's more meat to them as opposed to like the deep gnomes.
40:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:57
SPEAKER_02: This is also kind of maybe countered.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, not necessarily.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the drow do consider chokers a nuisance and hunt them en masse.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: However, their denial might be rooted in pride.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, they don't want to admit, like, yeah, we kind of fucked up and made that.
41:14
SPEAKER_03: I feel like the drow would be like, oh no, that was all us.
41:17
SPEAKER_03: Fuck you assholes.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: If they actually did.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, who knows what those guys.
41:22
SPEAKER_02: Now you're right.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, so this next bit is just a quote that I pick from this that is, I mean, it it's good.
41:30
SPEAKER_02: Quote The chokers, barely sentient themselves, have no knowledge of their origin and show little interest in discovering the truth of their past.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: They seem to care only about how to get their next meal and collecting shiny trinkets.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: Same.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: So they're very wounded.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: I was literally postured to make that joke, Taylor.
41:50
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm sorry.
41:51
SPEAKER_03: Lewin's same.
41:52
SPEAKER_03: Lewin is the same.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: Lewin is the same.
41:55
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm glad that we were like, oh, we mind linked.
42:03
SPEAKER_02: We both took hold of the brain cell on that one.
42:05
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
42:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, so chokers speak undercomment in raspy voices and pepper animalistic sounds into their sparse crude vocabulary.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, the grunts and and what have you.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, they're also fond of rude epithets and empty threats.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm sorry, but that's literally the same.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: What the hell?
42:25
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm gonna call my mixtape.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: Rude epithets and empty threats.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, that is a title of my album.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh check out our our uh check us at Dungeon P uh on SoundCloud at Dungeon Pedio.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be dropping uh rude epithets and empty threats next week.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: Just kidding.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: Um quote, here's more quotes, because this is very good.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Eric.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: Quote, before a choker devours its prey, it uses its powerful grasping hands to squeeze the meat into a tenderized pulp.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: The choker does the choker does this even with carry in it finds, fulfilling its instinctive desire to squeeze the life out of its meal.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: End quote.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: There's just no other better way I like I couldn't have- No, that was beautiful.
43:10
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't have summarized that.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: I had to just read it.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that I mean it's fucked up, but it describes it.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh squeeze it to a tenderized pulp.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh they're described as constantly hungry but able to go over a month without meat, though at this point they become irritable, which my question is more than usual, and willing to take more risks to acquire fresh meat, such as taking on a group, like I mentioned earlier.
43:39
SPEAKER_04: Right.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, also fucking pussies.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: I've gone like four years without meat.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm fine.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: In a pinch, they can survive on mushrooms and lichen that they lick up from cave walls with their raspy tongues.
43:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, their tongues are raspy too, like kitties.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, they seem to require little water, seemingly staying hydrated mostly from all the just all the blood.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: All the blood in the meat.
44:01
SPEAKER_02: All the blood.
44:01
SPEAKER_02: Just all the blood in the meat they consume.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: So that's pretty cool.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: They have to stay hydrated somehow and hydrate or digrate.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: I guess just with the blood, it's like okay.
44:11
SPEAKER_02: That's apparently not not not water, just blood.
44:13
SPEAKER_03: Kind of like how when you uh when you have a cat, sometimes you have to give them uh wet food because they might forget to drink water.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:22
SPEAKER_03: Like I I'm I'm not kidding, that's a thing with cats.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: I I'm unsurprised after dealing with them.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: So chokers tend to establish uh layers in areas that are hard to access for creatures that are not adept at squeezing into tiny spaces.
44:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh ideally, a choker would occupy a small cave with multiple entrances that are hard to reach and able to be visually obfuscated by stones and such that the choker could then remove for an easy escape.
44:52
SPEAKER_02: Which I must say is very no, you know, this point can be better made in a second.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: Um their layers are littered with bones, shiny objects, and quote, indescribable chunks of meat.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: Indescribable.
45:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
45:09
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: Fair enough.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: Um they hide their spare food in places where the smell will not attract other predators, which I will say, like that and the whole like obfuscating entrances and exits into their layers, it is not an intelligent score of three behavior.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like wholly have to I understand that there a lot of that is like there is a degree of like that animal instinct being like, oh yeah, that's a really smart thing to do.
45:44
SPEAKER_02: But like, that is not an intelligence of three kind of thing.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: Again, this is my example all the time.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: The Tarask has an intelligence of three, and that's just a big angry guy that wakes up and literally does nothing but rampage and eat for two minutes.
45:59
SPEAKER_03: That is literally an a creature that is described as being too stupid to have an alignment.
46:05
SPEAKER_03: You cannot have a creature make conscious decisions like that.
46:11
SPEAKER_03: Like that, that and be have the same intelligence score.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: It's yeah.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, that's just that on that that's just whatever.
46:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh also they they are fond of pulling out various um like of the treasures and baubles in their layer simply to admire them.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: Same.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: Um I just think that's cute.
46:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, it it is kind of cute.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: Like, I know it's it's like they're gross and it's like this fucking uh SCP-096 looking thing, but it's like, but then it pulls out like a little gemstone and it's just looking at it because it just thinks it's neat.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, I just thought about Wally.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: Aww if I had a choker I'd never seen Wally.
46:54
SPEAKER_03: Why do you continue to disappoint me?
46:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay, all right, guys.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna take another ad break quote real quick so we can go watch Wally.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh boy.
47:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, so their fondness for said baubles is an avenue that adventurers can use to bribe them.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: Same.
47:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh along with meat, not same.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: Uh chokers have poor charisma and no sense of diplomacy, same.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: But if plied with enough meat slash shinies, they can be persuaded into sharing their great knowledge of their territory or even acting as guides.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Creatures with an intelligence of three cannot act as guides, in my opinion.
47:27
SPEAKER_02: And cannot be reasoned with at all.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Just saying.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: And again, like I said, I don't know if their intelligence in 3.5 is precisely three, but I know it's not much better than that.
47:39
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, um, if negotiations go poorly, the choker will flee and refuse to negotiate with said party again.
47:47
SPEAKER_03: Also, creatures with an intelligence of three cannot hold a grudge.
47:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do.
47:52
SPEAKER_02: I like I really just I guess the Tarask has an instinctive grudge against like the Earth.
47:58
SPEAKER_03: Okay, but that is that an instinctive grudge or just an instinctive consume and destroy.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: Fair enough.
48:05
SPEAKER_03: Um If it were an instinctive grudge, that would imply that there are people that the Tarask does not want to destroy.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: True.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, which I know I've made the the same joke a ton.
48:17
SPEAKER_02: It's fun.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: But like having a social interaction go poorly and immediately fleeing and refusing to talk to that person again is a fucking mood.
48:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, I know that it it is it is probably Taylor, like you said, more of just a like a like a grudge or like an anger type reaction, but for some reason I immediately looked at it as a social anxiety reaction.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: See, I was gonna say that is what you call anxiety.
48:44
SPEAKER_02: Right?
48:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know what?
48:45
SPEAKER_02: You right though.
48:46
SPEAKER_02: Like that's what happens when social interactions go poorly for me.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: I just retreat back to my layer and look at my shiny things and don't talk to that person again.
48:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh uh I I I was lewing and the the chokers for a minute, and I was holding a sh uh miniature and I was like, look at all my shinies.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, those are your those are your baubles of choice.
49:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: Along with your indescribable chunks of meat that you leave around your house.
49:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
49:11
SPEAKER_03: Um that's fair.
49:13
SPEAKER_03: I did I did say same to that.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: While most intelligent subterranean racists see chokers as a threat or a nuisance and seek to exterminate them, uh some individuals capture chokers and can even train a few special examples as loyal slaves if enough live game to hunt and eat is provided.
49:31
SPEAKER_03: Hey, are you ready for me to be annoying again?
49:34
SPEAKER_03: What?
49:34
SPEAKER_03: You can't train an creature with an intelligence of three.
49:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I feel like some like wolf adjacent things have an intelligence of three.
49:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: I think that they have to intelligence.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: I was about to bring up um Ungo as an example, and then I was like, that's not that doesn't help my point.
49:55
SPEAKER_02: No.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: No, not really.
49:57
SPEAKER_02: He was pretty fucking stupid.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: However, uh, given that a choker can escape almost any normal cell due to their elastic bodies, octopi.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, at all, uh such an endeavor is usually considered more trouble than it's worth.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: Because it's like you have it, but you had to get this special, like completely solid on all sides, you know, cell.
50:20
SPEAKER_02: And what's it gonna do?
50:22
SPEAKER_02: Like lie in wait and just like choke bitches out and eat them.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: And you know I mean you would also have to make sure that there is absolutely zero like chance of it getting anywhere you don't want it to zero cracks or because then it's just like gone through, you know, teeny tiny crevice.
50:40
SPEAKER_02: So chokers are solitary and do not tolerate even other chokers in their territory, typically.
50:46
SPEAKER_02: However, once every two years, female chokers release a scent that attracts males to them to fight over their favor.
50:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, mating is, quote, brief and violent.
50:58
SPEAKER_02: Whoa.
50:59
SPEAKER_02: Whoa.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't dis it doesn't describe that in any more detail, which upsets me.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: Um after which the female gestates for about six months before giving birth to two to four young.
51:09
SPEAKER_02: Um she raises them for about a year until they reach maturity, upon which which she kicks them out to the edge of her territory in order to establish their own.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: So, like, even once they're once they're old enough, they're like, get the fuck out of here.
51:22
SPEAKER_02: So juvenile chokers are among the most dangerous as they are aggressive in trying to establish their individual territory.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like that thing.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess that does make sense.
51:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:34
SPEAKER_02: Where like certain like younger examples might not be physic or they might be physically just as dangerous, but it's their behavior that makes them more dangerous.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like snakes.
51:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, chokers usually live about 20 years, but can live up to 40 in captivity, which is an interesting sentence.
51:52
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm gonna guess because when they're in captivity, it's all just like less hostile.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: So they have the ability to live longer?
52:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:05
SPEAKER_01: Still strange, but alright, yeah.
52:08
SPEAKER_02: Speaking of things we don't like.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh boy.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: Fourth edition! Yay! Um, two varieties of choker are present in the fourth edition Monster Mary.
52:18
SPEAKER_04: Shocker.
52:20
SPEAKER_02: I didn't even get through the sentence.
52:22
SPEAKER_02: Which was published in 2008.
52:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh Cavern Choker.
52:28
SPEAKER_02: No, it's no, it's it's it's funny because I don't even I don't even have to look up when some of these were published.
52:35
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm pretty sure our listeners are sick of me saying the fourth edition monster manual, which was published in 2008.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: But like, I'm just the little creature.
52:44
SPEAKER_02: I can't change this.
52:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh Cavern chokers, uh, one of the varieties is called Cavern Chokers, uh, can use the ability Chameleon Hide to gain concealment as long as they are not actively grappling a target or grappled themselves.
52:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh and can use the ability body shield to make a grappled victim the target of an attack in place of themselves.
53:06
SPEAKER_02: They should have just called it meat shield.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: First of all, who the hell would grapple one of these things?
53:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, I get that they have to make that distinction, but who in their right mind would look at this and be like, I'm gonna grapple it instead?
53:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's a good idea.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's a good idea.
53:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fair.
53:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: Um they are unaligned.
53:28
unknown: Of course.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: I literally have the word, I literally have, they are unaligned.
53:33
SPEAKER_02: Parentheses, sigh.
53:35
SPEAKER_04: Oh well, you're welcome.
53:38
SPEAKER_02: And speak common.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
53:41
SPEAKER_02: What?
53:42
SPEAKER_02: And are described as quote, small natural humanoids.
53:46
SPEAKER_02: What?
53:46
SPEAKER_02: Natural?
53:47
SPEAKER_02: What is a natural humanoid?
53:49
SPEAKER_03: What is natural about this?
53:50
SPEAKER_01: There is nothing natural about this, first of all.
53:54
SPEAKER_03: There's literally creation, you're like like okay, creation myth might not be the a word I'm looking for here, but for lack of a better one, creation myths about how they're created from cannibalism, and you're like natural.
54:07
SPEAKER_02: Also, I mean, to fourth edition's credit, there are not creation myths for them in fourth edition because fourth edition doesn't have lore, so yeah.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: And the lore it does have is bad.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's may that might be a little harsh, but like I'm just saying.
54:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, so the Fey Grove Choker is a medium fee humanoid uh who has the aforementioned abilities of the cavern choker, but also an ability called Vine Fetter that it uses to restrain multiple targets in a close burst AoE.
54:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh they speak Elven instead of common and have low light vision instead of dark vision.
54:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, was a Fey version like even necessary?
54:46
SPEAKER_01: Because this doesn't make sense.
54:50
SPEAKER_02: Apparently, whatever.
54:51
SPEAKER_02: I I mean I'm usually down to accept the explanation that Fey shit happens because the Fey wild is weird.
54:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm usually up to accept I'm just so tired of it.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I'm done with you, fourth edition.
55:04
SPEAKER_02: Imagine how tired we are.
55:05
SPEAKER_02: Um as in prior editions, uh okay, here we go.
55:09
SPEAKER_02: We're getting to the the lore, the non-combat lore provided for them in fourth edition.
55:15
SPEAKER_02: And guess how much of it there is that is not supplemented by my biting commentary?
55:21
SPEAKER_02: Two and a half lines.
55:23
SPEAKER_02: So, um, as in prior editions, chokers are solitary.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, in this, they do not share territory with any other lurker type enemies because you know, fourth edition loves their like uh lurker, solo controller, da-da-da-da-da.
55:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
55:36
SPEAKER_02: They're a lurker type, so they don't like any other lurker type enemies, but sometimes act as guards and sentries for evil humanoid groups who ply them with food and treasure, which is not unprecedented.
55:46
SPEAKER_03: Right.
55:47
SPEAKER_03: Um that one doesn't anger me.
55:49
SPEAKER_02: However, this is immediately contradicted by a sample encounter group containing two chokers.
55:55
SPEAKER_02: So what is the truth?
55:58
SPEAKER_02: Because I mean, I get I mean, I guess maybe it's because they're being plied with food and what have you, but like it says they don't share territory with any lurker type enemies, and then it's like yeah, they're just hanging out with these like fucking, I think it was the encounter group with like hobgoblins and some other shit.
56:13
SPEAKER_02: I don't fucking know.
56:14
SPEAKER_03: Okay, no, that that one okay, no, no, no.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: So they're solitary but only except when they're not.
56:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but they're only solitary to the lurker type, so they'll chill with any other thing that's not a lurker, but they also eat like those all of these other things.
56:37
SPEAKER_03: So, hobgobl uh hobones?
56:41
SPEAKER_03: Aren't hobgoblins lurker types?
56:44
SPEAKER_02: I I would assume that they're probably which actually now that I'm thinking about it, this actually pisses me, like pisses me off more than I like initially it was the contradiction that pissed me off.
56:55
SPEAKER_02: But now I'm just like whatever.
56:58
SPEAKER_02: And now, you know what, whatever.
57:00
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't fucking matter, it's fourth edition.
57:03
SPEAKER_02: Like I know biting commentary from me, but it just doesn't make sense.
57:08
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't make sense.
57:09
SPEAKER_02: Well, and it's not even that it necessarily doesn't make sense, but it's just fourth edition's needlessly contradicts itself.
57:17
SPEAKER_02: Well, for one, yes, but also like just the notion of of that of the classification of different things based specifically on how they function in combat on the surface is fine.
57:28
SPEAKER_02: That's fine.
57:29
SPEAKER_02: Especially because I feel like it makes it easier for maybe a DM that's like, okay, I want an encounter that's like like okay, you know, you have your like big final like BBEG encounter, so it's like, all right, I'm gonna pull up a stablock from a solo controller or something like that.
57:46
SPEAKER_02: Right.
57:47
SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, I want this to be like they get ambushed in this cave, so I'm gonna look at lurker type enemies.
57:53
SPEAKER_02: I'd like on the surface that's fine, but taking it thus far that it um impacts like the type of other creatures that it that it sounds Yeah, that it it it it affects like their in cave fabe like lore and behavior is just weird.
58:12
SPEAKER_02: Because like the the you know, that choker doesn't care that this, you know, humanoid who has a specific because I'm sure that this is what would this would be an example of this.
58:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm I will admit I'm not entirely sure, but I believe this to be the case.
58:27
SPEAKER_02: That like a human who has a particular job that makes them a, you know, sneaky, scummy, low life type person would be a lurker.
58:35
SPEAKER_02: Like, that doesn't make sense that they would have more of a problem with that than any other type of human.
58:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:42
SPEAKER_01: Now anyway.
58:43
SPEAKER_01: I had to look it up.
58:44
SPEAKER_01: There are two different types of hopgoblins.
58:47
SPEAKER_01: You have the hobgoblin commander, which is a leader, and then a hobgoblin like spear warrior or spearman, and they are skirmishers.
58:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they're not they're not lurkers.
59:00
SPEAKER_02: And I don't even remember if that was the precise encounter group.
59:03
SPEAKER_02: I think there were hopgoblins in there.
59:04
SPEAKER_02: Guys, it doesn't fucking matter.
59:06
SPEAKER_02: I just pointed out why this whole thing is stupid.
59:08
SPEAKER_02: So anyway.
59:09
SPEAKER_01: Continuing on, because we can ramble on and on with that nonsense.
59:14
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
59:14
SPEAKER_02: So continuing on to fifth edition, um, in fifth edition, chokers are back to being chaotic evil.
59:18
SPEAKER_01: Thank God.
59:19
SPEAKER_02: Which I yeah, I think.
59:21
SPEAKER_01: They definitely need to be chaotic evil.
59:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna say, I was gonna say I take Umbrage with that just because of their intelligence, but like they can be chaotic evil.
59:27
SPEAKER_03: And as I And because I said a hundred times, their intelligence does not.
59:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, again, I take Umbrage with their intelligence scores, so whatever.
59:35
SPEAKER_02: Um so in fifth edition, chokers are described as having cartilage rather than a bony skeleton.
59:41
SPEAKER_02: So it seems that they are entirely cartilage now.
59:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
59:45
SPEAKER_02: Which, uh I just reflected on that.
59:49
SPEAKER_02: Imagine having like a Okay, because like I'm like mushing bone.
59:54
SPEAKER_02: I am mostly bone.
59:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
59:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm like mushing around on my nose right now if you can't hear it.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, imagine if like your ribs moved that way.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_02: I it was all just one.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_02: I have Eller's Genlo syndrome.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_02: Damn it, Taylor.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_02: You can remove each if you want.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_02: Wait, Taylor, are you turning into a choker?
1:00:12
SPEAKER_01: So that's what chokers are.
1:00:14
unknown: Shh, don't worry about it.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't gnomes.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't goblins, it was Taylors.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_01: It was Taylors all along.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_02: It's Taylors all the way down.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, but like, oh god, could you imagine if like your entire skeleton was like your nose?
1:00:29
SPEAKER_02: No.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess there are cartilaginous parts of your ribs.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm just imagining you like poke yourself.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: And like the whole rib just like convex, it just like convexes in.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_02: I don't like it.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_02: So um their flex strange.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_02: So their flexible internal structure enables them to slip easily into um crevices and niches in walls of caverns, which they live in.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, they like caves.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_02: They like subterranean places.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, so they lurk in these spots waiting for prey to walk by.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, a choker's usual method for luring prey invol again, I'm taking umbrage with their intelligence again.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, involves positioning the body of its latest catch just outside of its hiding spot.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh, whenever it gets hungry, it tears off a few chunks of flesh from said hanging out body to feed itself.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_02: In the meantime, the corpse serves to entice other curious humanoids, um, like the other intelligent races of I just said other intelligent races, that's how much umbrage I take with their intelligence, um, like with the intelligent races of the underdark, um, or like underground explorers, or as mentioned here again, is their favorite prey, goblins, um, to come within reach.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh so go on.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_03: That's very intelligent.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_02: And also that's what you mentioned earlier about Batman.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_02: That reminded me of that.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_02: Just like leaving them hanging, you know?
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: Just leave them hanging there.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_01: Like Batman.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: But also, yeah, this seems a little too intelligent for a non-intelligent creature.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_01: Or moderately intelligent, I guess.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_02: So, uh, oh, how how is it that they were described earlier?
1:02:07
SPEAKER_02: I that description made me laugh.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_02: So.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, vaguely intelligent.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: Vaguely vaguely.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: Vaguely intelligent.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: That seems like more than vaguely intelligent.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_01: Not yeah.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, so when a target presents itself, the choker's fucking starship.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_02: Starship?
1:02:23
SPEAKER_02: Why do I keep wanting to say starship?
1:02:25
SPEAKER_02: Starfish hands.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_02: Starship hands.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_02: Starship hands take off.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_01: Catch these hands.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_02: Fuck.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_02: They're starfish-shaped hand bathing eats dart out of their hiding spot, wrap around the victim's throat, and pin the unfortunate creature against the cavern wall while choking out its life.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_02: That was a cool story.
1:02:47
SPEAKER_01: God.
1:02:47
SPEAKER_02: Right?
1:02:48
SPEAKER_01: Damn.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_01: That's a description.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_02: For some reason, that description feels so much more visceral than just than the rest of them.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it does.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_01: I like it, but damn.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_02: So uh because its arms are so long, the choker can keep its body inside of the crevice that it's hiding in beyond the reach of most normal weapons.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_02: It's literally just this tentacle-looking hand coming out of the wall and choking.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh god.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, choking your friend up against the wall.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like cut the arm off, I guess.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_03: That is actually nightmare fuel, right?
1:03:21
SPEAKER_01: It it is pretty damn like nightmare fuel-ish.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_01: This whole scenario, like you're just chilling in a cave walking around, and suddenly this arm comes out with starfish hands and just starts choking your friend, like Yeah.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_02: Slams them against the wall and starts choking them.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: Like what?
1:03:38
SPEAKER_01: Can we not?
1:03:39
SPEAKER_02: So, um chokers tend to set their ambushes alone rather than working with one another.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_02: Um but where one is to be found, others are likely nearby.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_02: I guess they're like cockroaches.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, they communicate through eerie keening howls that travel long distances through rock, but are difficult to uh identify or locate in a typical because like it's a cat, it's a cave.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_02: So it's typically pretty echoey anyway.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_02: So I would imagine that it's one of those things that like it it sounds like something to them, but to like a human, it just kind of sounds like any other like random echo that you would get in a cave from anything else.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_03: Or even like any other kind of like horrible animal that lives in caves.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_02: Right?
1:04:27
SPEAKER_02: Because as we discussed earlier, there's a lot of horrible things that live in underground caverns and dungeons and dragons.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_01: Yes, there are.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_02: So, um, that is the bulk of what we have um for chokers.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_02: I will say, real quick, I thought I had actually typed this out.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_02: I might have actually meant to at the beginning of this, but I felt like it would have been giving too much away, so I didn't.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, what this what chokers personally reminded me of is a mix of every like long, scary, usually naked thing from like a horror film or video game.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_02: So like you're you're slender man, yeah, you're the rake, you know.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_02: Especially when he's running around on all fours, you know.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_02: You're the rake.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so like whenever, you know, whenever they're running around on all fours in like the ecology article, that makes me think of the rake.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, your your SCP-096, but particularly their whole like they used to be something and then Dark Spawn.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yes.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_02: But also my other thought was that they used to be something and then they became this way because of cannibalism reminds me of the Wendigos from Until Dawn.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_02: And I say that because I know that there's some real like there's some real world connection, I believe, between Wendigos and cannibalism.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: But given that, you know, you're not an expert on it.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm not an expert on like the real world like mythology of Wendigos.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I can't necessarily comment on if that's actually applicable here, but it reminds me of how the the Wendigo Mythos was discussed in Until Dawn.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_02: Like it literally was like a curse and it was like you got possessed and you ate somebody and then you turned into a big long scary.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_01: Um actually I think what I was thinking about earlier was the Wendigos from Supernatural.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_01: Because I believe they had the same they're also there.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_03: So like in Mythos now to some to a degree that we don't we're not sure because we didn't look this up and like we're not experts on Wendigo myths.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_03: It it seems that they are linked regardless.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah like I know that there's a connection between Wendigos and cannibalism but like I said I don't know I don't know how applicable that is in like the real world.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_03: But anyway um it's scary and I don't like it.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_03: These things seem like horrible DD Wendigos.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: And I and I feel like even beyond Wendigos I do feel like there is sort of that I can't think of a particular other example, but I do feel like there is a trope or a notion of like cannibalism turning you physically into a big scary monster.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah this would not be the first place that I had heard of such things because I mean obviously like I guess psychological because like cannibalism is bad in case you didn't know the more you know.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_02: Here's a PSA from from Lewin cannibalism is bad.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_02: Cannibalism is bad.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_02: Don't do cannibalism not even once um so you know like psychologically obviously but I feel like there is that kind of like you practice cannibalism and you turn physically into a monster trope that even goes beyond those examples of Wendigos.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_02: So given that that's the bulk of the well I say the bulk that's all the uh information that I have about chokers and their possible real world inspiration and origins um I'm just gonna leave us off with a quote from I believe this was from the Monster Manual, the 5th edition Monster Manual which was published in 2008.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_02: It may have also been from Wardenkines Time Foe, which was just published in 2018.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_02: I realized I didn't list my sources for 5th edition.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_02: Anyway quote chokers are cowardly and dim-witted creatures useless as guard beasts and utterly awful as servants yet for wizards of shorter stature securing one as a familiar does negate the need for a ladder end quote.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_01: That definitely sounds like a Mordenkain sort of uh quote there.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah and it was one of those that was like at the top of the you know like the top of the heading is like above it you know in the in the margin next to like their picture.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_01: Definitely seem seems like a Mordenkindan also now I'm horrible.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_02: Now I'm imagining like a a gnomish wizard.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God is Joker familiar that he's just like yes over there and the Joker just goes and stands and he just fucking climbs up and he's like good job and he sits there and pats him on his stupid little Kingdom of the Crystal skull head.
1:08:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_02: Anyway I like it though I'd I'd do it I I kinda like it too yeah I'd allow it I I I didn't like a lot of what was in this episode but I kinda liked that yeah still just bad bad weird nightmare foolish creatures but like at least you have that fun visual to end off.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_02: I liked how we end episodes on a good note except for when I don't which is often because sometimes fifth edition disappoints me.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_02: Not often but sometimes not as often as fourth edition.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_03: Anyway uh thank you guys so much for listening don't forget to follow us on Twitter on Instagram at Dungeonpedia for updates on and cool stuff and general DD nerdiness.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh don't forget to spread the words the words all of the words to your friend.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_02: Make sure they know all the words just open your mouth and start reciting this episode.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_01: Yes spread the word to your friends we would really appreciate that as well.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_02: If you have any suggestions for a topic for us to cover that we haven't yet you can email us at dungeonpedia.podcast at gmail.com and I think with that thank you for listening for sitting through this just one, two, three however many punches of upsetting visuals and uh we'll catch you next week here on Dungeonpedia didn't like it.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_02: Really it you know I don't think you made that clear throughout the episode just to make sure.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_03: I didn't like it.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_02: Taylor did you not like it did you like the gnomish wizard with the choker familiar I liked that too