Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Chad Daybell Trial (Part 18) (10/22/26)

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Mega Edition: Chad Daybell Trial (Part 18) (10/22/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're heading back out to Idaho, and we're
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: going to get caught up on what went down during
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: day number 18 of the Chad Daybell trial. This article
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: was published by EastIdahoNews.com, and the author of this article
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: is Nate Eaton. 825 a.m. We are back in the
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: courtroom for day 18 of Chad Daybell's trial. He's in
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: a light blue shirt with a red tie. He's seated
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: next to John Pryor. At the prosecution's table, Madison County
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Prosecutor Rob Wood, Fremont County Prosecutor Lindsey Blake, Fremont County
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Deputy Prosecutor Rocky Wixom, and Special Prosecutor Ingrid Beatty. 8.28 a.m.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: There are likely 50 to 60 people in the gallery today.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: One of the busiest days we have seen. Larry Woodcock
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: is here. Rex Conner, Lori Vallow's uncle, is also here. 8.33 a.m.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: The attorneys are meeting with Judge Boyce and Chambers. 8.38 a.m.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Attorneys are back at their tables. Boyce is on the bench.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Jurors are being brought in. 8.41 a.m. The next witness
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: for the state, Zulema Pastanis. She was married to Alex
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Cox and was very close with Chad and Lori. 8.44 a.m.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Zulema's attorney, Garrett Smith, is in the courtroom. He also
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: represents Ian and Melanie Polowski. Lindsay Blake is questioning Zulema.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: She asked Zulema how she met Lori Vallow, and they
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: met in 2018 at Melanie Gibbs' house. Seems like Melanie
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Gibb is the linchpin for a lot of this, huh?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: All these people hanging out, recording podcasts, but none of
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: them know any better. Nobody knows that they're up to
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: no good or that they're calling people evil or zombies
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: or anything, right? Oh, wait, everybody knew? Oh, that's right.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: A whole ass group of weirdos. 8.45 a.m. Zalima met
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Chad at a conference in Mesa in the summer of 2018.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Zalima says she did not stay in contact with Chad,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: but she stayed in touch with Lori. She developed a
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: friendship with Lori after the St. George conference in 2018.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Zulema traveled with Lori, Melanie Gibb, Michelle, and another woman
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: to the conference. 8.46 a.m. Zulema recalls Lori being flirtatious
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and putting on the moves on Chad when they first met.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Chad was very giggly and laughing a lot with her.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Zulema knew Lori was married to Charles Vallow. Zulema also
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: knew Chad was married. And it always amazes me when
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: these so-called godly people are out here breaking God's law.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: If you're such a godly person and you have angels
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: visiting you and you're a prophet, don't you think you'd
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: be walking the walk as well as talking the talk? 8.47 a.m.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: On the way home from the conference, Lori asked Zulema
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and Melanie to search the scriptures for certain things, anything
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: to do with James, the less, and Doctrine and Covenants 77.11.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: which has to do with the 144,000. Lori didn't expand
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: on why she wanted information on James the Less. Lori
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: later told Zulema that Chad had told her in a
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: previous life that they had been married and Chad was
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: James the Less, who was one of Jesus Christ's disciples.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Lori was his wife, and her name in that previous
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: life was Helena. I think they got it confused. They
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: mean Stunad and Scafusa. That's what they really mean. Helena
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: and James the Less. More like Chad the Brainless. 8.49 a.m.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Chad told Lori they were the angels who were supposed
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to gather the 144,000, according to Zulema. 8.50 a.m. At
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: another conference near Lori's home, Lori had a gathering afterwards
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: at her house. Zulema attended and went outside with Chad
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: and Lori. Lori started playing basketball and asked Chad to
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: play with her. It was very uncomfortable for me. I
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: felt like a third wheel. so I said I was
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: going inside the house. Chad said he was going to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: go inside with her. Lori said, why are you going inside?
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Are you scared of me? 8.51am. Chad gave Zulema a
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: blessing during that weekend. Zulema says, usually, when you receive
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a blessing, it is tailored to the specific needs you
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: may have at the time. This blessing was different. It
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: was almost as if Chad was looking into the future
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: for me, and he was telling me how special of
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: a person I was, how many gifts I had, and
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: all the things that I was going to do in
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: the future. It was very, very different than what I
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: was used to. 8.53 a.m. Chad praised Zulema a lot
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: during the blessing. During that weekend, everyone gathered in a room.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: There were around six to seven women there, no other men.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Chad sat in the middle of the room, and he
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: taught everyone the doctrine of translation. Charles was out of
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: town with JJ, so Lori could have the house for guests.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: And this is what he was attempting to do. This
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: dude thought he was some kind of guru, and he
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: was looking to bring one of these women into his web,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: or more. And it happened to be Lori Vallow that
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: ended up being that woman. And him and her got together,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: and well, we all know the rest. 8.54am. Chad said
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: that there were three phases to translation. The physical part,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the spiritual part, and the third part she can't remember.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: With each part, you go up on vibration, and when
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you hit 100, you move on to the next phase.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Zulema had never heard translation taught this way, but she
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: was open to the idea. 8.56 a.m. The day after
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: the conference, Lori was supposed to have a meeting at
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: her house. Zulema did not go to the house, but
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: instead went to the temple. When Zulema walked into the
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: celestial room, Chad and Lori were sitting together. They both
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: stood up and walked to Zulema. Lori told Zulema not
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: to tell anyone that they were in the temple. 8.57 a.m.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Zulema said Lori and Melanie Gibb started a podcast and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Chad was going to be a guest. After the podcast,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Chad said he wanted to go to lunch because he
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: had information he needed to give to Zulema. Lori, Gibb, Chad,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and Zulema all went together. Lori and Chad didn't want
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Gibb to hear what Chad was going to tell Zulema.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Chad said he would call Zulema later. When he called,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: he said he was able to read people's past lives
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and he wanted to give Zulema a reading of her
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: past lives. 9 a.m. Chad told Zulema about her past
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: lives and gave her a rating, a 4.2 light. Blake
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: moves to admit an exhibit Zulema drew after speaking with Chad.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: It's shown on the screen. Zulema explains that Chad and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Lori were teaching that as one realm of creation, there
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: were five different worlds to which one person would come to. 9.03 a.m.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Chad told Zulema she lived in a different world. She
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: had to come to the third world five times, to
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the fourth world four times, and to the fifth world
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: four times. Chad told Zulema he was the brother of
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: the Heavenly Father and Jesus. In another creation, he had
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: been the Holy Ghost. On the diagram, there is a
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: circle with the word limbo. Chad and Lori told Zulema
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: that when a person passes, there was a small time
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: where the body was a viable body. It could be
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: occupied by a dark spirit or demon because the body
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: no longer has its original spirit. The spirit could not
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: move to the spirit world but would go into limbo. 9.06 a.m.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Zulema had never heard anything like this before, but she
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: was open to it. Blake moves to admit another exhibit.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Boyce asks for a brief sidebar. 9.10 a.m. The exhibit
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: is entries from a journal Zulema kept in 2019. The
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: first page we see on the screen lays out what
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Chad taught about three phases of translation, emotional, spiritual, and physical.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Each one would go from 0% to 100% vibrations. would
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: go from 0 to 1000%, and around 80% there's a
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: big test in order for you to get to 100%.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Then you move on to the next phase. Talk about
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: a bunch of batshit nonsense. Imagine being a grown-ass adult
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: and getting dog-walked into this BS. 9.13am. Chad told Zulema
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: he was going through the vibration process. The next page
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: of the journal shows one of the circles of the
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: entire creation, all the times a person comes to one
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of the worlds. It shows how a person moves up
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: in a spiritual descent, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc. The left-hand
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: side shows what happens to a person if they become dark.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Zulema was rated 4.2, according to Chad. Chad discerned light
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: and dark. 9.15 a.m. The lunch was at Firebirds. They
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: had lunch again at the same restaurant. February, March of 2019,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Chad was not there. During the lunch, Lori made a
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: diagram similar to the one Zulema had written down. Lori
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: went through the creations and worlds and ratings of people.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Lori drew the diagram on the restaurant receipt. Zulema kept
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: the receipt. Blake shows the receipt on the screen. It
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: displays eternal rounds at the top, the five worlds where
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: one would come, and the bottom of the receipt shows
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Chad rating people on whether they are light or dark.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Lori wrote on the receipt the numbers of people on
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: the earth, who were twos, threes, etc. There were billions
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: of twos, billions of threes, only 1,200 people were a 4.1 light, 7,000 4.2,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: only 700 4.3. The only person who is a 6
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: light and a 6 dark. Equal number on light and dark. 9.21 a.m.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: The next part of the receipt shows Laurie drew Heavenly
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Father and Jesus Christ. After that, there was Council of 12,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Council of 48, etc., All of this was being given
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to Lori by Chad, Zulema says. Mr. Ringleader, once again,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: showing you how he was a huge part of this conspiracy. 9.22 a.m.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Blake asks what Chad taught about exaltation. Zulema says after
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: you experience probationary time, you become a righteous person who
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: is spiritually minded. You then become exalted and have a
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: place in the celestial realm. Zulema says it's taught in
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: her church that people can become exalted, but the way
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Chad was teaching was different. He taught that if you
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: come in another world, you became exalted so you already
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: had your place in the celestial world. All these yahoos
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: always talking about heaven and paradise, this, that, the other thing.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Here's an idea. How about you try and make your
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: time here on Earth as pleasant as possible? The other
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: stuff's gonna come eventually, so quit being a douche and
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: enjoy it while you're here. 9.24 a.m. Because Zulema had
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: already been exalted in another world, Chad told her she
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: was on this Earth now to help and assist the
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: work of God. Chad said there was no need for
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: repentance if you had already been exalted in another world.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Lori used to say all the time, it doesn't count
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: for me, and it doesn't count for you either, Zulema says.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Lori would hit something and say, doesn't count for me.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Zulema says all this information came from Chad. 9.25am. The
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: next page from Zulema's journal shows 24 people on the
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: earth who were part of a council. The name Serena
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: is on the diagram. Chad said Serena was no longer
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: light and was moving towards the dark side. She was
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: a very dark-eyed priestess, according to Chad. And Blake asks
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: what caused Serena to move to the dark list. Zulema
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: says Chad didn't give any reason. It was a mystery
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: to her. Zulema later found out that Serena had questioned
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Chad about his teachings of not needing repentance. Because she
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: questioned him, Chad deemed her dark. 9.30am. The first time
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Lori talked about someone being possessed by a dark spirit
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: or demon was during their lunch at Firebird's. Zulema had
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: never heard about dark spirits coming into bodies. Lori said
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: that's what happened to Charles Vallow, her then-husband, and Charles
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: was now possessed by a dark spirit named Ned. Lori
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: got this information from Chad. You see the ongoing theme here,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: where she's getting all this information, and all of these
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: witnesses saying that that's so? Well, it's not good for
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Chad Daybell, and the more witnesses that are brought up,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: the worse it's going to get. 9.31 a.m. Zulema said
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Lori once mentioned she and Charles were having financial issues,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: but there weren't any other problems that Lori spoke about.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: In March 2019, Zulema had Gibb, Christina, Nicole, Serena, and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Lori come over for a casting of Charles. Lori explained
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: that everyone needed to hold hands, and she gave everyone
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: a different part to say. They then casted the evil
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: spirit out of Charles. Charles was not physically present. Zulema
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: says throughout the entire casting, Lori was in communication with Chad,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and Chad was giving instructions. 9.35 a.m. Lori called Chad
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: after the casting, and Chad said it was a success.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: The casting had worked. Later on, Chad said Ned had
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: been cast out, but another dark spirit took over Charles' body.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: The evil spirit was named Garrett. Another casting was held
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: with the same people, but Alex also joined in. And
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: it's always the same thing, right? Oh, well, it didn't
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: work this time, or it did work, but another spirit
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: jumped in the body, so we have to do it again. No,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: it didn't work. That's because none of this nonsense exists. 9.37 a.m.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Chad and Lori said Alex's spiritual status had changed, so
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: he was now able to come to the casting. Lori
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: gave assignments to the group, and Alex was always the warrior.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Zulema says after the second casting, Lori called Chad, and
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Chad said it had been successful. Later on, the group
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: found out that another dark spirit had entered Charles' body.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: This dark spirit was a high dark spirit, an experienced
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: demon who had done this before to others. This demon
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: was called Hiplos. 9.40 a.m. It seemed weird that Lori
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: moved with Charles to Texas after all the problems and
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: fighting that they had and the fact Charles was possessed.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Blake asked Zulema about the Seven Gatherers. This was a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: group of women who got together to do castings. The
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Seven Gatherers were Christina, Nicole, Serena, Melanie Gibb, Melanie Polowski, Lori,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and Zulema. Most of the time the group would turn
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: to Lori for answers, who got her information from Chad.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Once again, Chad, a central figure. 9.43 a.m. Blake shows
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: another page from Zulema's journal. It is in the order
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: in which castings were performed. Cast out, burn, dispel, banish, expel, purge, evict.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: The next page shows the order of the priesthood. Dispel, encapsulated,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: cast out, burn out, escorted, sealed. 9.45 a.m. Zulema says
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the teachings of Chad and Lori evolved. Zulema says the
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: castings on Hiplos were never successful. The day after Charles died,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Lori asked Zulema to come to her, and that's when
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Lori told Zulema that Charles was dead. Lori seemed quiet
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and somber. Zulema says Alex seemed normal. Lori told Zulema
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: that Charles had come over to take JJ to school.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Charles had left his phone in the house, and Lori
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: started looking through it. Lori said Charles came back inside
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and demanded his phone. Lori didn't want to give it
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: to him, so they started fighting. Alex and Tylee were
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: both there. Tylee walked into the room with a bat,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: telling Charles to leave. Charles took the bat away and
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: hit Alex on the back of the head with the bat.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Alex took out his gun and shot Charles. 9.49am Zulema
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: asked Alex if he was going to be okay. He said, yeah, why?
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Zulema said, because you just shot someone. Alex responded, Zulema,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: he was a zombie. Alex 100% believed that Chad was
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: telling him, Zulema says. Zulema saw Chad in August of
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: 2019 when he came to visit Lori's house. Lori and
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Chad were physically romantic, holding hands. She sat on his lap.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: They hugged and touched each other like girlfriend and boyfriend.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Zulema had never seen them that physical before. 9.51am Zulema
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: asked Chad why he and Lori were together. like that
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: when Chad was still married to Tammy. Chad said he
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: and Lori had been married to each other seven times
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: before in other lives, and they had been exalted together
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: in other worlds. They were to be together in this
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: life because they had a mission together, and their spouses
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: would understand because of the mission they needed to complete.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Lori said it didn't count for them. Chad said Tammy
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: was going to die early, and he had a portal
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: in his house where he could get communication and instruction
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: from the spirit world. He got information through the portal
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that Tammy was going to die soon. Lori told Zulema
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: that Chad created a portal for her in her closet,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and this is where they communicated with each other. 9.53 a.m.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Chad said his and Lori's mission in this life was
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: to build Zion and gather the 144,000. Lori had said Chad,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: and they were leaders of the group. Blake asked Zulema
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: about the church of the firstborn. Chad said he was
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: the head of the church. and he was the one
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: who would gather people who belonged to the church. 9.55 a.m.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: During the same meeting, Chad said JJ was going to
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: die young, probably soon, and he was going to come
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: right back to Earth as Colby Ryan's son. Chad gave
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Zulema a blessing. He said he was telling her what
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ wanted him to say and that Zulema needed
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to move to Rexburg. Chad told Zulema she was going
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: to get married soon. Zulema had zero ties to Rexburg.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Chad also gave Alex a blessing. Alex told Zulema that
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Chad said he also needed to move to Rexburg and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Alex was going to be one of the warriors who
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: was going to fight invasions from other countries. Rexburg was
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: going to be a place of safety and Alex was
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: going to play a key role in being one of
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: the defenders of the area. Zulema says Alex bought into
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: it 100% so much that Chad was leaving the following
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: day to go back to Rexburg And right then, Alex
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: booked a flight to go to Rexburg with Chad so
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: he could see the sights. 10 a.m. Right after Charles
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: was killed, Chad and Alex were acting like really close friends.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Zulema recalls hearing about zombies at Firebirds, and the term
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: kept coming up. Alex believed there were zombies, and he
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: told Zulema, if he ever turned into a zombie, just
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: shoot me in the face. 10.01 a.m. Lori moved to
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Rexburg with Tylee, JJ, and Alex at the end of
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: August of 2019. Zulema asked Lori what she was going
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: to do in Rexburg. Lori said she would live off
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: the $ 6, 000 a month social security benefits. Lori told Zulema
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: that if anything ever happened to Charles, he had a
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: $ 1 million policy and Lori was the beneficiary. Lori was
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: very upset that Charles changed the beneficiary before he died
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: and Lori was not getting the million. Oh, because it
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: was all about the dough for her, remember? It was
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: all about money and all about sex. That's what the
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: prosecutors said in the very beginning, and that's what they
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: continue to prove in the case they continue to lay
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: out before us. 10.05 a.m. Zulema visited Rexburg in September 2019.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: She stayed in Alec's apartment and visited Lori's. Zulema never
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: saw Tylee. Lori said Tylee had to be freed, and
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: when Zulema asked for an explanation, Lori put her hand
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: against Zulema's face and said, Don't ask. Lori never provided
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: any information about where Tylee was, JJ was there. 10.06 a.m.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Before Lori moved to Rexburg, she had told Zulema a
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: few times that Tylee had been possessed by a dark
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: spirit named Hillary. Lori got that information from Chad. Lori
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: told Zulema that JJ was being attacked in the middle
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: of the night by dark spirits, and they couldn't get him,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: so the spirits would enter JJ's service dog. 10.07 a.m.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Zulema says Lori got rid of the service dog. After
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Melanie Gibb visited Rexburg, she and Zulema got together. Gibb
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: said she learned during her trip to Rexburg that JJ
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: had become a zombie. 10.08 a.m. During the trip, Zulema
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: observed Chad and Lori being very romantic with each other.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Zulema went to Mesa Falls with Alex, Lori, and Chad.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Alex was driving. and Zulema was in the front. Chad
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: and Lori were in the back seat, hugging and kissing.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Chad gave Zulema a blessing during her visit. He said,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ is standing right next to me, and he's
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: saying this to you. All of your sins are forgiven,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: and he's telling you it's time for you to leave
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Babylon and move to Rexburg. 1010 AM. Zulema did not
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: want to move to Rexburg. She was not dating Alex
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: at the time, but they were getting to know each other.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Chad gave Alex a blessing and started the same way,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: that Jesus was standing next to him and telling Chad
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: what to say. Alex started sobbing when Chad told him
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: all of his sins were forgiven. Morning break time, back
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: in 20-30 minutes. And like usual, this is where we're
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: going to break as well, and in the next episode
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: we'll pick up where we left off. All of the
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the description box. What's up everyone and welcome back to
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the program. We're going to dive right back into the
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Chad Daybell trial and pick up where we left off.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Once again, this article was published by EastIdahoNews.com and the
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: author is Nate Eaton. 10.40 a.m. We're back in the courtroom.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Zulema continues her testimony by saying she didn't want to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: move to Rexburg. She had no family, ties, jobs, etc.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: But Chad pushed for her to move. 10.41 a.m. Zulema
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: expressed her concerns to Lori and she responded, don't worry
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: about it, Mellie. meaning Melanie P., Lori's niece, had enough
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: money for all of us. Must be nice, huh? Wish
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: somebody would call me and be like, hey, little Rob,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I got enough money for all of us. Quit what
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: you're doing, move up here to Rexburg, and let's hang out.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: That'd be nice, huh? Well, you could leave out all
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: the other weird shit, but I'll take the free money. 10.44 a.m.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Blake moves to admit some exhibits. The first one we
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: see shows two pages. There are handwritten names on the side.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: The names of Chad's children are written on the paper.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: On the other side of the page, there are names
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: of the Cox family with ratings. Zulema says Chad provided
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: all of the ratings. 10.46 a.m. Many people in Lori's
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: family were rated as dark. All of Chad's children were
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: rated as light, Zulema says. JJ and Tylee were deemed
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: zombies and possessed. Yeah, deemed zombies by Chad. And is
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it a shock that everybody who was deemed a zombie
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: ended up dying? 10.48 a.m. The next page shows the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: names James and Elena, meaning Chad and Lori. Seven children
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: are listed under their names. Melanie Pawlowski, JJ Vallow are
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: listed under the names of James and Elena. Zulema saw
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: these documents for the first time on paper, and the
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: ratings were on Chad's computer. 10.50 a.m. Blake asked Zulema
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: if she ever heard anyone talk about the Book of Life.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Chad said he had access to the Book of Life
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: so he could read someone's life, past, present, and future.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Chad never showed the book to Zulema. Zulema recalls hearing
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: that Tammy... had been possessed by demons, and had become
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: a zombie. Zulema participated on a casting on Tammy on
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: October 9, 2019. 10.51 a.m. This was the same day
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: of the paintball gun incident in Tammy's driveway. Zulema, Lori,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and Melanie Palowski gathered at Melanie's house for a casting.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Lori said they had new information on how to do castings,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and this time the Cosmos would be involved. It was
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: just Zulema and Lori in this casting. 10.53 a.m. Zulema
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: says she learned, much later, that someone had attempted to
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: shoot Tammy that night. The night of the casting, Zulema
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: says Lori was on the phone and was very irate
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: and upset. Zulema says Lori was calling the person on
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the phone, moron, idiot, stupid, and was so mad. And
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: after she hung up, Lori said, idiot can't do anything
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: by himself. Well, we all know who that is. She
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: was talking about Alex Cox. And she was mad because
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Alex Cox didn't end up killing Tammy. 10.54 a.m. Zulema
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: spoke to Alex that day about her new car. They
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: did not discuss the casting and Alex did not talk
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: about what he had done that night. Zulema learned from
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Melanie Gibb about Tammy's death. Lori told Zulema that Chad
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and Lori had received new information from angels that taught
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: them how to do a successful casting to finally cast
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: out a demon. Lori said that's what happened to Tammy. 10.56 a.m.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Zulema was at home in Arizona when Gibb called and
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: said Tammy died. Lori said the day after Tammy's funeral,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Chad was going to move into Lori's apartment. From the beginning,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Chad and Lori talked about the need of them being
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: together to start their missions to build Zion and gather
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: the 144,000. 10.57 a.m. Zulema and Alex began officially dating
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: on October 31, 2019. They got engaged at Alex's apartment
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: in Rexburg on November 7. Alex gave Zulema a diamond ring,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: size 5. Alex and Zulema didn't know where Chad and
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Lori were, but while they were visiting, they received photos
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: of Chad and Lori getting married on the beach in Hawaii.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: 11 a.m. On the way back from Hawaii, Chad and
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Lori had a layover in Gilbert. They were staying at
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: a hotel and asked Zulema to pick them up and
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: take them to the airport. Zulema asked where JJ was.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Lori said she had given JJ to Kay Woodcock. Chad
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and Lori were acting like newlyweds. They couldn't keep their
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: hands off each other. Neither of them appeared sad. They
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: were very happy and giggly. 11.01 a.m. Chad had a
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: pendulum in his back pocket. Zulema asked a question, and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Chad pulled it out and said, we could ask. Zulema said,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: no thank you. She had never seen the pendulum before.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: This dude's pulling out a pendulum like he's some kind
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: of carnival barker down in Times Square. Really, bro, put
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: your pendulum away, and in fact, do the world a
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: favor and jump into that volcano on your own. 11.02 a.m.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Zulema often turned to Chad for spiritual answers. Alex went
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to spend Thanksgiving at Zulema's house in Arizona. He told
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: her that he had seen Chad and Lori before he
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: went to Arizona, but they stopped returning his texts and calls.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Alex was very upset. He said, can you believe they
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: are being such jerks after I helped them? Now they
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: don't even want to talk to me. Well, you got
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: used like everybody else in your sister's orbit, stupid. 11.03 a.m.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Alex relied on Lori and Chad for everything, Zulema says.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Alex and Lori were very close. Chad told Alex the
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: only reason he had come to Earth at this time
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: was to be Lori's protector. Alex took that to heart
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: and believed he was there to protect his sister. 11.05 a.m. Zulima,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: says Chad and Alex, became very close over time. Alex
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: believed what Chad told him and would do what Chad asked,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: especially because he would tell him that what to do
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: through a blessing and it was Jesus Christ telling him
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: what to do. Talk about the American Taliban over here. Yeah,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: go ahead and jump off a building. It's what God wants. 11.06 a.m.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Zulema learned Tylee and JJ were missing from Melanie Gibb.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Zulema talked to Alex about it, but he didn't say anything.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: The last information Zulema had from Lori was JJ was
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: with Kay. Zulema wondered why Kay would be asking for
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: a welfare check if she's the one who had JJ.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Alex just said, Yeah, huh? Well, considering Alex was the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: one who actually killed these kids, probably not a topic
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: he wanted to talk about. 11.06 a.m. When Alex visited
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving, he read the patriarchal blessing Chad had given
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: him to Zulima. As Alex read it, he cried because
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: he really believed what was in there. Alex died on
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: December 12, 2019, and the world became a better place
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: for it. 11.07 a.m. The Saturday before Alex died, he
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: said he was going to Mexico for the day. He
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: left in the morning and was fine but came back
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: sick that night. As Zulima speaks, many jurors are taking notes. Yeah,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: because he killed himself with an overdose. The whole entire
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: he died of natural causes BS. Who's believing that? They
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: weren't even checking for fentanyl really back in the day.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Did they check him for an overdose? Did they check
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: him for narcotics correctly? The answer is no. He didn't
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: have a full panel. So they say it was pulmonary edema.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: But my guess is this dude killed himself. He knew
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: what was coming and he knew the walls were closing in. 11.08 a.m.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: The night before Alex died, Chad and Lori called him
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: to say Tammy's body was getting exhumed. It seemed strange
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: to Zulema that the body was getting exhumed and that
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Lori and Chad were telling Alex this news. Zulema asked
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Alex if they exhumed her body, are you going to
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: be tied to anything that happened to Tammy? Alex said no. 11.10 a.m.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Zulema says Alex's demeanor changed quite a bit after the call.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: He's normally joking and laughing and After the call, he
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: was very quiet, somber, kept to himself, and started saying
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: things to Zulema that didn't make sense. I think I'm
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: going to be their fall guy, Zulema quotes him as saying.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Zulema asked what he meant. Alex wouldn't say anything. Zulema
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: was getting frustrated with Alex, and she walked back and
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: forth to talk with him. Think I'm being their fall guy,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: he said. Zulema, either I am a man of God,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: or I am not. Does that sound like a man
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: who's just gonna drop dead? Or a man that understands
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: that Things are really about to fall in a way
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want them to fall. 11.12 a.m. Chad told
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Zulema that she had been on the earth when Jesus
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Christ came to the Americas and she had been killed
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: with Lori in a very violent way. She had been raped, killed,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: and her body was dismembered. When Christ came to the Americas, huh? 11.13am.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Blake has no further questions. Pryor will now cross-examine. 11.14am.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Pryor begins by asking about the seven gatherers. Nicole, Christina, Serena,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Melanie Gibb, Melanie Palowski, Lori, and Zulema were the members.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: They would gather in person and on Zoom to share
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: information and do castings. 11.16 a.m. They shared information and
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: articles with each other via email. Pryor asked if the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: group was very familiar with the word Seven Gatherers. Zulema
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: says yes. Melanie Gibb and Melanie Palowski previously testified that
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: they did not know what the Seven Gatherers was. Of
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: course they did. They knew what it was. They all knew.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: You're just out here acting like Bette Midler in Witches,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and you don't have any kind of idea what you're doing?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Stop it. 11.18 a.m. Zulema says Seven Gatherers was an
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: email address that was formed by a lady in the group.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe Christina. A few ladies emailed back and forth, but
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: there was never a formal meeting or discussion about the group.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: An email address and password were shared in the group. 11.19 a.m.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks if Melanie Gibb ever contributed to the Seven Gatherers.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Zulema says it's possible, but she doesn't recall. Pryor asks
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Zulema if she remembers sending anyone emails in the Seven Gatherers.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Zulema says there were a few. Zulema says it wasn't
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: a club. It was an email address that was shared
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: among the group. 11.21 a.m. Zulema met Melanie Gibb when
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: she moved near her home in 2017, and they attended
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: the same Latter-day Saint ward. Gibb invited Zulema to a
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: meeting at her house in September of 2018, and Zulema
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: met Lori at this meeting for the first time. The
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: purpose of the meeting was for Lori to share her testimony.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Lori shared that she had visitations from angels and the
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: angel Moroni. Lori also said she was a personal witness
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ and had a physical meeting with Jesus. 11.24 a.m.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Zulema recalls meeting Chad at a Preparing the People conference
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: in Mesa. when she bought some of his books. These
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: were classes on preparing for emergencies and preparing for the
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: second coming of Jesus Christ. 11.26 a.m. Chad talked about
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: his near-death experiences. Too bad they weren't real death experiences.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: And after his near-death experience, he no longer had a
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: veil and could see into the spirit world. 11.27 a.m.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Prior asked about Zulema's professional skills and experiences. She has
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: worked as an insurance company manager, an instructional assistant, and
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: she currently works for vocational rehabilitation. Prior asks Zulema if
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: she considers herself to be an educated person. Zulema says yes. 11.29 a.m.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Prior asks Zulema about her ability to judge people's character.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I believe that I have been an overly trusting person,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Zulema responds, or maybe just a fellow traveler. That could
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: be it too. 11.30 a.m. Prior asks Zulema if she
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: has been granted immunity by cooperating with the police. She
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: says that is true. He asks how many times she
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: has spoken to the police. Zulima says she has spoken
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: to law enforcement several times. And this is what I'm
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: talking about. If she didn't offer up information, she would
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: have been charged too. All of these people in this group,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: they all turned on Lori and Chad real quick, didn't they? 11.32 a.m.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks about the St. George meeting where Chad was
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: speaking and selling books. Pryor asks if Lori was pursuing Chad.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Zulema says she was very flirtatious towards him and she
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: was the aggressor. 11.33 a.m. Pryor asks about the weekend
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Chad stayed at Lori's house and they played basketball together outside.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks how many people were staying at Lori's house.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Zulema says four to five people. Pryor asks if there
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: was any romantic interest between Chad and Lori at this time.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Zulema said there didn't appear to be. Lori was being
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: flirtatious with Chad while playing basketball. Zulema says And Lori said,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: are you scared of me? Zulema understood it to mean
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: that Lori was asking if Chad was scared of being
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: alone with her. 11.36 a.m. Prior asks if, in the
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: LDS faith, blessings are unusual. Zulema says they are not.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Prior asks about light and dark and if anyone can
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: determine who is light and dark. Chad told Zulema he
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: had access to this portal and was getting information from
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the spirit world about light and dark. 11.38 a.m. Prior
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: asks Zulema if she believes she had any special gift.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: She says no. Prior asks if she believes she can
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: predict the weather. She says no. Prior asks if she
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: ever believed in the past she could predict the weather.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Zulema says yes. Chad told Lori she could predict the weather.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Chad told her to practice how to predict the weather. 11.40 a.m.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Zulema would practice in her mind how to predict the weather.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Prior asks if she was ever successful at predicting the weather.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: She pauses and says, I don't believe so. 11.41 a.m.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks about demons being cast out of bodies. He
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: asks if she ever discussed the topic of killing anyone.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: She says no. She says Chad and Lori taught that
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: if the casting was successful, the demon would be cast
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: out and the body could die. 11.46 a.m. Pryor asks
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: to admit a recording. Prosecutors ask to approach. Boyce says
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: there is an issue that needs to be discussed outside
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: the presence of the jury. The jurors are dismissed for
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: lunch while the matter is argued. 11.49 a.m. A.M. Pryor
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: says the exhibit is from a police interview with Zulima
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: from October 2, 2020. The interview is over three hours long.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Pryor will play a clip for Zulima to identify. 11.51 A.M.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Pryor plays a clip and asks her to identify the
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: people in the video. She is there along with her attorney,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Garrett Smith, Rexburg detective, Ray Hermosillo, and someone she believes
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: is an FBI agent, Ricky Wright. 11.52 A.M. Pryor moves
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: to admit the entire interview that is over three hours long.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Pryor says he plans to call Zulima back during his defense.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Blake objects to admitting the evidence as a cumulative waste
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: of time. She says there have to be inconsistencies in
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the testimony versus the police interview, and there haven't been
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: any shown. 11.54 a.m. Blake says Pryor has not followed
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the rules on admitting the exhibit. Boyce is ready to rule.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: He says to admit the entire exhibit would be premature.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: and he denies the admission. We're now breaking for lunch.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: All right, so like usual, we're going to break here
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: as well, and we'll pick up where we left off
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: in the next episode. All of the information that goes
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. We're
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: getting right back to the Chad Daybell trial, and we're
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off with that EastIdahoNews.com
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: article that was authored by Nate Eaton. 109 p.m. We
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: are back in the courtroom. Attorneys have been meeting with
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Judge Boyce in chambers. Zulema remains on the stand. John
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Pryor will continue cross-examination. 1.10 p.m. The jurors will remain
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: outside the courtroom as Pryor publishes excerpts of Zulema's police interview.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Boyce says this is being allowed to refresh Zulema's memory. 1.13 p.m.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Pryor plays the first clip. We see Zulema talking to
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: the police. She is asked if she believes about the
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: demon being in the body and the way to get
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: the demon out is to kill the body. Zulema says no.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: The way Chad explained it is the demon would be expelled,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: but a protection around the body so no other entities
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: could come in. But Zulema says they never spoke about
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: killing the body. They only talked about expelling or casting
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: out the bad spirit. She told Hermosillo 1 17 p.m.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: We see another police interview of Zulema speaking with Fremont
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: County detective Vince Kayakamanu, and the FBI agent. Pryor begins
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to play the clip, and Blake objects, saying the issues
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: being discussed on the tape hasn't come up. Boyce says
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: there's no reason to continue playing the clip because it's
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: way out of scope. The objection is sustained. 1.20 p.m.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks for a sidebar. Boyce says no. We need
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: to keep things moving, and the jury isn't in the courtroom. 1.21 p.m.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: The next clip is played. Pryor stops it and says
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: he has the wrong spot. He slips to the clip
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: he intended to play. Zulema talks about Seven Gatherers group
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: exchanging information through a shared email address. Zulema says they
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: used it for a little bit, and Zulema is asked
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: if she still has access to the account. She says
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: she doesn't know. 1.23 p.m. Boyce says the clips were
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: played to refresh the memory of the witness and for
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: the judge to see if there were any inconsistencies in
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: her statements. Boyce asked Pryor what the inconsistent statement was.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Pryor says Zulema testified that the email was used a
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: few times, but during the police interview, she said it
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: was used a lot more. 1.25 p.m. Pryor argues that
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Zulema's testimony about the body dying when possessed was inconsistent.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: She said in court that the body had to die,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: but in police interviews, she didn't talk about the body
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: being killed. Blake argues the statements are not inconsistent. 1.26 p.m.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Boyce says the police interview is nearly four hours, which
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: is problematic to admit for the jury. Boyce says he's
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: not going to allow the exhibits in, but Pryor can
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: ask Zulema about what she said. Boyce says Zulema's statements
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: don't rise to the level of being inconsistent based on
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Idaho law. 1.28 p.m. The jurors are now being brought in. 1.33 p.m.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Pryor continues questioning Zulema. He asks about castings and if
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Chad and Lori ever spoke of killing a body during
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: a casting. She says no. Pryor asks Zulema, who was
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: present for the casting of Charles, the first time it
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: was Christina, Nicole, Serena, Melanie Gibb, Lori, and Zulema. Pryor
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: asks if it was a Seven Gatherer casting. Zulema doesn't
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: remember if the email had been created at that time. 1.36pm
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Prior asks if the Seven Gatherers account was used regularly.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Zulema says it was used, but doesn't know the number
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: of documents. Prior asks if it was used frequently. Zulema
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: says probably. Prior asks if Melanie Gibb was running the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: casting on Charles. Zulema says no. It was Lori. 1.37 p.m.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Prior asks when the first casting was. Zulema says the
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: end of March 2019. Prior asks if at the end
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: of the casting they received notice that Charles Vallow died.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Zulema says Chad and Lori taught that the person had
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: already died and there was a two-minute window where an
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: evil spirit would come into the body. Zulema says Chad
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: and Lori taught the body was already dead and it
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: was being occupied by an evil spirit. Zulema says if
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the casting worked, it would be more accurate to say
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the body would finally die naturally. 1.39pm. Pryor points out
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: that Charles did not die. A second casting was held.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks Zulema if the vast majority of the information
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: she got was from Lori passing along what Chad had
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: told her. Zulema says that's correct. 1.41 p.m. Pryor, isn't
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: it true you were quite specific in your response to
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: the prosecutor about her questions? Zulema says yes. Pryor, and yet,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: when I ask you a question about Lori moving to Texas,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: you don't remember? Zulema responds, I don't remember the date. 1.42 p.m.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Prior asks where JJ was when Lori went to Hawaii.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Zulema says JJ was with Charles. Prior asks if Lori
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: ever mentioned that she was trying to convince Charles to
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: make her the beneficiary of his life insurance. Zulema says no. 1.43 p.m.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Prior asks Zulema if she has a phone or something
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: she's looking at. Zulema says no. She has her hands.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Prior asks Zulema if she recalls hearing Chad talk about
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Tammy having a short life. Zulema doesn't recall. 1.44 p.m.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks Zulema what her knowledge of portals is other
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: than what Chad and Lori told her. Zulema said she
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: doesn't have much knowledge other than what's in the movies. 1.46 p.m.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Pryor shows the back of a restaurant receipt from Firebirds.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: It shows the drawings of the light-dark scale. Pryor says
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: he's confused about what this means. The higher number on
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: the light scale, the better it is for the person.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: The higher number on the dark scale, the worse it is.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Zulema says this particular drawing was done by Lori at
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: a luncheon. Chad was not there. And it's a nice
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: try by Pryor to try and separate Chad from what
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: went down, but this is conspiracy. He doesn't have to
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: be there, physically present, for him to be a part
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: of it. 1.48 p.m. Another exhibit is shown, with numbers
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: listed on the paper. There are circles and lines next
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: to the numbers. Pryor asks her to explain what the
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: drawing means. Zulema says this comes from information Chad had
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: given her over the phone about her prior life. 1.51 p.m.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks Zulema, if she has any recollection of talking
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: to other people about her visions. Zulema says yes. Pryor
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: asks if she recalls talking about cutting cords. Zulema doesn't.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks to refresh her memory with an exhibit. 1.53 p.m.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Zulema reviews the email and Pryor asks her about having
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: an energy session with her friend Stacy. Zulema says the
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: person connects to your energy and then sees if there
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: is any negative energy or things that would influence you negatively.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: This email was sent to Lori in February 2019, 1.55 p.m.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Pryor asked Zulema if Lori encouraged her to have the
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: energy session with Stacey. Zulema says it was something she
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: did herself. Pryor quotes from part of the email where
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: metal cages are put to block energy. Pryor asks if
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: this is consistent with her LDS beliefs. Zulema says no,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: it's inconsistent. Zulema then wrote she cut the cords. and
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: all the records were kept of her. Zulema doesn't remember
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: who she was talking about. Zulema wrote that she would
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: create a storm and bring protection to you. Zulema says
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: this was done energetically and spiritually. 1.58pm Prior asked Zulema
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: about another email from December 2019. He shows her the
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: message to refresh her memory. Zulema sent this email to
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Lori and said she had been attacked by some demons
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: while she was sleeping. Zulema heard a voice of something
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: unrecognizable next to her. Zulema told Lori she saw demons
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: attacking Lori in her dream. Pryor asks if Chad or
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Lori told Zulema that she was being attacked by demons.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Zulema says no. She experienced it without prompting from Lori
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: or Chad. 2.01pm Pryor asks about a third eye on
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: the forehead, a phrase Zulema used in an email. Zulema
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: says energetically there is a third eye on the forehead
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: between the two eyes. Prior asks if Zulema actually sees
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: a third eye on the forehead when she sleeps. Zulema
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: says no. Prior asked Zulema when Lori first met Chad.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Zulema says it was in October of 2018. Zulema emailed
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Lori and told her she was to be protected and
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Zulema would be her protector. Zulema learned this during her
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: meditation and her prayers. She said that if angels were
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: jumping for joy saying yes, yes, yes, 2.06 p.m. Many
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: of the jurors are rubbing their eyes and their heads
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: are bowed. One has his eyes closed, quite different from
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: this morning when they were taking notes and seemed engaged
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: with the testimony. 2.08 p.m. Pryor asks about an email
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: on April 14th, 2019. Zulema wrote that angels still talk
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: to men and women. Pryor asks what it means. Zulema
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: says Lori had visitations from angels. 2.10 p.m. Pryor asks Zulema,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: If she recalls sending Lori an email about having a
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: vision in the Celestial Room, she does. Prior asks the
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: date of the email. Zulema doesn't recall, so the bailiff
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: shows her the email. It was from November 29th, 2018. 2.12pm.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Zulema wrote to Lori, I have to go to work, lol.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Prior asks what that means. Zulema says it's just a comment.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Zulema told Lori she had a vision. Prior asks if
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Chad or Lori told her to have the vision. Zulema
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: says nobody tells you to have a vision. You have
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: one on your own. 2.14 p.m. Pryor asks Zulema if
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: she has heard who is accused of shooting at Brandon Boudreau.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Zulema says Alex Cox. Pryor asks if she knew Alex
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: was involved. She says no. Pryor asks if Zulema was involved.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: She says no. 2.18 p.m. Pryor asks Zulema when she
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: started dating Alex and how often they saw each other.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Zulema says they had one dinner date in August of 2019.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Between August and November, Zulema and Alex saw each other
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: around three times. They got engaged on November 7, 2019.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: They were married at the end of November. 2.21 p.m.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Pryor asked if there was ever a discussion with law
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: enforcement about attempting to make Zulema's testimony credible. She says
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: she doesn't recall. Pryor asked for a sidebar. 2.23 p.m.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Boyce says he will now take up an evidentiary issue
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: that will take around 10 to 15 minutes. Jurors are
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: being excused. 2.25 p.m. Pryor plays a recording from a
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: police interview with Zulema, Hermosillo, Kayakumanu, and attorney Garrett Smith.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Hermosillo says some of the statements Zulema gave Gilbert police
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: are different from what she told Rexburg police. Zulema asks
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: if they were statements from around the time Alex died. 2.27 p.m.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Hermosillo says they're trying to eliminate things Lori and Chad's
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: defense will bring up during trial. Hermosillo says part of
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: the defense could be They try to pin the crimes
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: on other people or make Zulema not look credible. Hermosillo
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: says in order to make her look credible in court,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: they want to get ahead of inconsistent statements. 2.29 p.m.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Hermosillo says Zulema told Gilbert police that she didn't know
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: how to get a hold of Alex and Chad. Hermosillo
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: asks why she told them that. Pryor stops the recording.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Boyce says the jurors can be brought back in now
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: and Pryor can pick up with his last question. Was
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: there ever a time where you had a discussion about
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: making you sound credible? 2.34 p.m. Jurors are back in.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks the court reporter to read back the last question.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Was there ever a time that there was a discussion
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: about attempting to make your testimony credible? Pryor tells Zulema
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: she's had a chance to review the recording of her
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: with the police. He asks the question and Zulema says yes.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Zulema says Hermosillo was trying to reconcile her statements to
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Gilbert Police. and the statement she was giving to him. 2.36 p.m.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks if Hermosillo was aiding her or trying to
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: make it so defense attorneys could not attack her. She
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: says yes. Pryor asks if during the meeting she was
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: attempting to get her story straight if they had to
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: testify in this case. Blake objects and Boyce overrules the objection. 2.37 p.m.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks about the purpose of the meeting being to
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: get her story straight. Blake objects and Boyce grants the objection.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Pryor follows up by asking what Zulima's understanding of the
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: meeting was. She says there were some inconsistencies and Hermosillo
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: wanted to be ahead of what you're doing right now. 2.40pm.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Pryor says Hermosillo was aiding Zulima with her statements. Blake
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: objects and moves the strike. Boyce grants the objection. Pryor
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: asks a question another way. Blake objects again. Boyce sustains again.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: This happens a few more times and Boyce tells Pryor
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: he needs to move on. 2.43 p.m. Pryor asks Zulima
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: if she remembers Hermosillo mentioning that she had inconsistent statements
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: in the past. Zulima says yes. Pryor says he has
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: nothing further. Blake will now conduct redirect. 2.45 p.m. Blake
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: asks Zulima if they had ever met before. Zulima says yes.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Blake asks if her testimony has changed based on the
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: meeting with Blake. Zulema says no, and her testimony is
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: based on her own experiences and recollection. 2.46 p.m. Blake
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: asks Zulema about the meeting with Hermosillo and the other officers.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: She asks if more was discussed in the interview. Zulema
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: says yes, more than likely. There were many interviews. Blake
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: asks Zulema if it was Lori she would usually talk
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: to about the spiritual topics. Zulema says she would talk
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: to Lori, but the ideas originated from Chad. 2.48 p.m.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Blake asks who was teaching at the house about the
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: translation process. Chad was teaching. Lori was sitting on the
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: couch as a student. Blake asks about Chad staying at
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Lori's house during the conference. Chad was the only man.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Zulema did not stay the entire time. She left after
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: being given a blessing. Blake asks if Chad's teachings were
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: part of the standard LDS teachings. Zulema says no. 2.49 p.m.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Chad indicated that he could communicate through the veil and
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Zulema believed he could. Blake asked Zulema where she learned
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the idea of cutting the cord. Lori and Chad taught
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: about how the spirit needed to be attached to the
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: body by a certain amount of cords. These cords needed
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: to be cut before a person died. 2.50 p.m. Chad
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: told Zulema she could control the weather and told her
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: to practice her gift. She learned about spiritual attacks in
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: the scriptures and and Chad and Lori also spoke about them.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: The way they described the attacks differed when Zulema had
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: read the scriptures, Chad and Lori were far more detailed. 2.52pm,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Chad told Zulema he could visualize spiritual weapons and then
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: remove them. Blake asked about the Seven Gatherers email account.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: She asked about castings and Zulema says Chad and Lori
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: spoke about castings with her at different times. 2.54pm, Zulema
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: says Tammy was dark and had become a zombie. She
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: was no longer alive. Charles was a zombie. He was
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: no longer alive. JJ was dark. He was no longer alive.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Tylee was dark, and she was no longer alive. Blake
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: has no further questions. Zulema is released from the stand,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: but Pryor wants her to stay under subpoena. 2.55 p.m.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Zulema leaves the courtroom. Next witness is Dr. Garth Warren.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: He's a forensic pathologist for the Ada County Coroner's Office.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: He has practiced seven years in Idaho and five years
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: in Colorado. 2.59 p.m. Warren's office investigates a wide variety
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: of deaths, non-natural deaths like suicides, accidents, homicides, along with
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: some natural deaths. A young person who dies without explanation
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: would be investigated by Warren's office. 3.00 p.m. Warren's job
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: is to try to determine why a person died. He
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: needs to determine the cause and manner of death his
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: office performs autopsies for Fremont and other counties. Warren has
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: performed over 1,500 autopsies. in his career. 3.02 p.m. Rob
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Wood is questioning Warren. He asked Warren to describe his
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: training and how he became board certified. 3.03 p.m. Wood
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: asked Warren to describe forensic pathology. He says it's the
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: practice of pathology combined with the legal system. Warren says
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: the cause of death is the natural event or traumatic
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: injury that sets into a series of events that causes
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: somebody to die. A heart attack or a gunshot wound
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: to the head would be a cause of death. Manner
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: of death deals with the circumstances surrounding the death. There
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: are five options. Natural, accident, suicide, homicide, undetermined. 3.05 p.m.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Warren was involved in the autopsy of J.J. Vallow on
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: June 11, 2020. It happened at the Ada County Coroner's Office.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: It was the first time Warren had ever seen J.J.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: The autopsy lasted approximately four hours. 3.07 p.m. Warren says
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the first time he saw J.J., the child was in
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: a black body bag. Warren broke the seal of the
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: body bag, and JJ was wrapped in a black tarp
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: with multiple strips of duct tape. That was really the
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: first time that I got a good look at JJ,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Warren says. There was a plastic bag over JJ's head.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: As this is being described, Larry Woodcock bows his head
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: and is wiping tears from his eyes. 3.09 p.m. JJ
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: was covered with duct tape, and he was in red pajamas.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: His body was in a state of decomposition. Not much
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: of his skin was showing because there was so much
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: tape on him. Photos were taken, the pajamas and socks
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: were taken off, and given to law enforcement. Warren removed
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the plastic bag around JJ's head and neck, the duct
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: tape was taken off, the arms and legs, and given
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: to law enforcement. Other evidence was collected from JJ's body. Hand, nail, oral, anal,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: and penile swabs were taken. 3.11 p.m. The autopsy consists
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: of an external examination and an internal examination. Warren looked
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: for any sign of trauma or natural disease on JJ's body.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Warren saw no external signs of disease, but there were scratch,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: live abrasions, on the left side of JJ's neck. There
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: was also bruising on JJ's right and left upper arms
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: and diffused hemorrhage under one of JJ's right thumbnails. The
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: hemorrhage means there had been force of trauma to the finger. 3.13 p.m.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: There was possible bruising on JJ's ankles. Warren notes sometimes
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: decomposition can look like bruising, so they take extra steps
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: to determine if if the bruising is legitimate or decomposition.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: The marks on the arms were indeed bruising, Warren says. 3.15 p.m.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Warren says incisions were made in the body to get
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: access to the brain, heart, lungs, liver, and other organs.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: JJ's organs were intact, but some had decomposition. Warren found
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: decomposition changes, but no sign of overt trauma or natural
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: disease in looking at it or looking at tissues under
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: the microscope. 3.16 p.m. Warren saw no rib fractures or
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: bone abnormalities on the x-rays. JJ's lungs showed decomposition changes
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: but no evidence of natural disease. Sections of JJ's lungs
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: were looked at under the microscope and there were no
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: signs of any natural disease. 3.17 p.m. Warren tries to
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: get blood, urine, and other fluid during autopsies. Because of
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: the state of decomposition, they were unable to get any fluids.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Hair samples, a liver sample, a rib and tooth sample
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: were sent away for testing. Low levels of ethanol, likely
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: from decomposition, were found in the liver. Theobromine and caffeine
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: were also found. Warren wasn't concerned about those substances. 3.20 p.m.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: GHB was also found in the liver. GHB is a
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: depressant and can be used as liquid ecstasy. This can
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: be used for medicinal or recreational purposes. Warren was concerned
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: when he saw it. But it could have been produced post-mortem.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: It could also have been ingested. So saying basically that
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: they drugged this kid maybe. And GHB is no joke.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: You take a little capful of that, it's lights out.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: And that's for an adult. You give it to a kid,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: forget it. 3.22 p.m. Warren also did Tylee's autopsy. It
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: took about a week because she was not intact. Tylee
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: was received in multiple bags. Two were body bags and
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: the third was a brown paper bag that contained... five
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: sealed bags inside. Human remains were inside all the bags, bones, tissues, organs,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: and a lot of mud, dirt, and other debris. 3.24 p.m.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Tylee's cause of death, homicide by unspecified means. After reviewing
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: all the information and performing the autopsy, Warren believes Tylee
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: was killed, but because of the state of the body,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: he can't say exactly how. Larry Woodcock just stood up
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: and left the courtroom. 3.25 p.m. Warren says Tylee was
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: dismembered and set on fire. This fit the criteria to
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: have the homicide by unspecified means as the cause of death.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: There also wasn't enough to do an autopsy. 3.27 p.m.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Warren reviewed Tylee's medical records. She had a history of
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: anxiety and panic attacks. She had a history of ovarian
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: cysts that caused her discomfort. She had a history of pancreatitis. 3.29 p.m.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Wood asked if any of Tylee's medical history were problematic
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: to explain her death. Warren says not in his opinion. 3.30 p.m.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: Court is now dismissed for the day. All right. So
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: another damaging day for Chad Daybell in a long line
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: of damaging days for Chad Daybell. And it's only going
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: to get worse. The more evidence that we hear, the
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: more experts that are brought up, the bigger the hole
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: gets for Chad Daybell. And hopefully when all is said
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: and done, that hole gets covered up by the jury
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: and Chad Daybell is found guilty. All of the information
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: description box.