Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / The Magic Quadrant and the Hardware Reckoning: DEXOps 1:1 w/ Scott Pope

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The Magic Quadrant and the Hardware Reckoning: DEXOps 1:1 w/ Scott Pope · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, it change makers and welcome to the Deck Show
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: with Tom ac Grath. Let's get into it.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Everybody wants to talk about football at the beginning of
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: the welcome.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Left, so towards the end less so when you get.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: To the quarterfinals, the semifinals, the final, but you're going
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: to have to put up with one last conversation I
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: fear about football.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: Because on today's show, not only do you have.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: An English host, but you have an English guest appearing
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: for the second time this year, Scott Pope, director of
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Value Advisory Customer Outcomes Department here at next Think, how
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: are you doing, Scott, Welcome back to the show.
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. Tom very good, Thank you very good,
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: and good to be It's good to be English at
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: the moment, right, it's.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Good to be an English Arsenal fan.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: At the time of writing, regular listeners might remember that
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Scott came on a few months ago the first I
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: think they may be the first.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: Of many football conversations we've ended up having on the
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: show this year.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: We do promise to start to we will start to
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: wind it down following following the World Cup. But then
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: we were looking at, you know, maybe hopefully a good
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: year for Arsenal, which you might have heard came to pass,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: which was very good.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: And now all of a.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Sudden, here we are, scot in the semi final, our
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: other team, a national team performing pretty well.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: So how you're feeling about the Argentina game.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: I'm surprisingly confident. I don't know if that's a good
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: thing or a bad thing. I don't know when this
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: will you're planning to release this.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: Podcast A good point? Good point, but.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hopefully by the time it's released, we are into
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: the final.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, so to be specific that this podcast is going
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: out today, the final.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: The final is tomorrow.
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: Plenty of people will tune in after that and you
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: will either be chuckling to yourselves, yeah, or you will
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: be or you will be thinking it all went so
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: well for them.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: But I mean, Scott, you're a bad as old as me.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: You probably remember the ninety France ninety eight?
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Was it the Beckham sending off? Yeah?
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do remember that.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very very well, very very well, very very well.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: What a what a fixture it always is that England
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Argentina couldn't get much more exciting.
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's been a while, right, it's been a
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: while since we last played them. I'm surprisingly confident. I
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: don't know if, as I said, is that good or bad?
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: I think I think we will need to play better
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: than we did against nor Why. Yes, I do think
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: that they are beatable.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Would you rather have I don't know who is like
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: the second best player in Argentina's squad?
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Like you got you got Messi?
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: Who?
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Wo?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Do you think the number two is like Alvarez? Would
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: you rather have Messi and Alvarez or Cain and Bellingham?
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: That's a tough question.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: It's kind of cool, but it's a difficult question.
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: R Yeah, a long time Messi is obviously coming towards
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: the end of his career now, so I think I
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: would have to say and Bellingham.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Fair play, fair play, Well we will put that to
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: the test. And moving on from football, okay, we don't
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: want to lose every listener who's not a.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Football fan or not an English.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Arsenal supporter, football fan supporting football fan. But Scott, have
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: you been? How's life? How's work? Very? Very good?
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: Things very good? Yeah, very busy, which I think is
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: very good. You should never complain about being busy. And yeah,
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: like things are good. The sun shining in the UK right,
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: So what's what's not to like? What's not to lie?
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Look, you know you're not the only person who's done this, right,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: but just to break the fourth waller, but you know,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: first appearance on shore, everyone's very enthusiastic. Second appearance, it
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: can be difficult to pin people down, you know, is
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: a difficult second album syndrome, they call it.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: You know, you gotta, you gotta. You know, every everyone's
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: got one podcast appearance in them. But do they have to, Scott?
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Do they have to?
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: I'm always happy to come and talk with u.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: Toh right, all right, all right, you weren't avoiding. Definitely
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: glad to hear it. Got glad to hear it. So
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: since you.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Came on, one of the most notable events in Dex was,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: of course the latest Magic Quadrant.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: Release we had it.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: We had a great catch up with Andrew Robertson about
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: that more generally. But one of the things that stood
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: out to you, Scott about the MQ this time around
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: was how much kind of a hardware so to be
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: a hardware adjacent thinking and reflection was really before him
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a report. Uh go into adding a bit more detail shortly,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: but the essence of our series together when you come on,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: is that we kind of focus a bit on on
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: dexops more generally. Right, Where do you see the most
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: significant touch points today between dexops and hardware per se?
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think when we when we talk
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: about dexops, dexops is all is a change in the
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: way that you operate, and it's the opera operationalization of
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: the DEX function shifting sort of typical end user compute
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: teams into sort of dex operations center. And when we
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: think about hardware, what DEX enables us to do is
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: change the way that you manage hardware. So typically organizations
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: would manage hardware on like a three or four year
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: refresh cycle. Right every four years, Tom, you get given
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: a nice new, shiny laptop. What we're seeing is that
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: model change with the dexops landscape is that organizations are
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: utilizing the DEX team to shift to more of a
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: performance based refresh cycle. Only replace the device if there's
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: a requirement to based on the DEX data. And I
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: think that's what we're seeing across you know, across the
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: dex landscape, is that dexkops teams are having a big,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: big impact there not only across the digital workplace. But
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: now with what we're seeing in the market outside of that,
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: with procurement teams and even sort of c suite, right,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: because because of the hardware prices increasing, we're seeing these
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: conversations get elevated up the chain.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: Well about you school, when was the last time you
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: got a new laptop?
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: Quite recently?
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Actually? Oh really after how long? After? How long?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I don't tell anybody a secret mate?
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: How long?
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: How long? How long is you going with that one?
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Well? Since I started actually, so yeah, it was around
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: four years.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Four years. I don't know if that illustrates up point
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: or not.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Really, they send me back, it was I'm being a
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: bit too honest there last well if the balance that
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: last time my October door, they said, you're absolutely fine
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: on your bike?
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: Thought right, you're more or less right there.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it does feel fair to say that, you know, hardware,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: As I mentioned, it recurred across the MQ in a
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: few sort of strategic places. Yeah, let's kind of move
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: through summer pose and just get your reaction to of
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: them as it as it relates to the MQ, or
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: tangentially to to that operationalization layer that you.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: Alluded to.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Now device life cycle management. As you say, it's an
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: area which is changing fast, and it's an area which
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: is used often to justify a lot of DEX projects today.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Right is a question for you, Right, do you see
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: that as like just a simple, useful, positive thing or
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: do you think sometimes we distract leadership, say by focusing
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: on this element, this kind of clean our ROI aspect
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: of DEX and obscure the deepest strategic function that we
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: want everybody to be orientated around with regards to it.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: No, No, because I think I think it's very strategic
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: in terms of how you shift your management of your
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: devices into a more cost efficient way of managing the
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: devices using data to actually understand the problem. I think
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: I always try and do you think about it in
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: your personal life or look at like a TV. So
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: you don't normally just go and buy a new TV
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: because it's three years old, right, you buy a new
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: TV when the old TV breaks? Absolutely most people obviously
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: there are that sort of model that we've had in
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: the in the enterprise space. Is there any need for
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: that to replace something every three years or four years
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: just based on it on a time on the time metric,
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: And I think with the as I said previously, with
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: what we're seeing across the market, with the the increases
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: in end points, so laptops, desktops, we're probably seeing some
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: customers are saying that they're increasing fifty percent. Plus Apple
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: have just increased their prices by thirty So we're going
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: to see that across laptops, Apple laptops, and mobiles, and
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: then obviously memory as well, the increase of memory prices.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, we have to think of different ways of
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: managing this, right, We can't just continue to manage on
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: a per time basis. So the answer to your question
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: quite simply is now, I do think it's a very
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: strategic decision to It's quite simple, but it is strategic
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: to move away from managing things on a time based model.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Look, there's also the theme of telemetry as it pertains
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: to hardware, which is kind of a flip side of
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: what you were just describing there. Right, what do you
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: see the significance there? Is it just about getting more
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: endpoint data or are they deeper connecting pieces around life
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: cycle remediation, AI readiness that makes telemetry matter more as
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: a strategic piece in hardware development today.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean with the advance is in AI. I
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: think the the endpoint will becomes more and more important
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: m HM. As you're pushing you need you need to
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: have data on how the endpoints are performing, right, But
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: you don't just want data for data's sake. It has
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: to be meaning It has to be meaningful data and
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: the right data that can drive an outcome.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: And if you think.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: About what we're pushing to the endpoints now with companies
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: of looking at deploying co pilot, they're looking at pushing Claude.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: Some companies are looking at Claude for for enterprise, there
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: are going to be more workloads running on the endpoint.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: And this comes back to the whole point around experience, Right,
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: we need to understand what piece of the puzzle is
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: causing the friction for the employee. Noever, it's just the
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: is it the hardware or is it actually the application
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: for the network as an example that the employee is using.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: So I think you need to have data, but it
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: needs to be the right data and it needs to
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: be surfaced in the right way. I think we always
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: look at it as insights. Is the way that we
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: position that in the next platform, it's providing insights on
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: how you take the right path forward.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: More generally, what do you see the impact of AI
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: on hardware preoccupations as being needs and priorities?
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: I guess is a better way of putting it.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I read something the other day that
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: like the sort of the low end of the market,
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: the hardware market, I think it was under seven hundred pounds.
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: That end of the market will disappear over the next
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: I think it was like a couple of years. So
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: I think the impact will be that hardware will become
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: more expensive, right and continue to rise because there's more
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: and more demand for the chips, for the memory, and
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: not just at the workplace later as well, obviously we
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: see that you're going to see that more at the
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: infrastructure layer as well.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: That's a really good point. Something we've covered on the
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: show recently is the way device experience is really escaping
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: just the the PC or whatnot. You know, decks is
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: now increasingly touching mobile virtual desktops for clients, conference room system, printers,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: an entire kind of shared workplace infrastructure. We had a
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: guest on recently refer to it as total decks. What
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: do you think of that concept? Where do you see
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: this direction of travelers going.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I like the term. I know I've
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: heard Pedro use that term before me. Total decks is
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: sort of everything that the employee touches, right, everything that
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: the employee touches in their in their daily work, whether
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: that's mobile, whether it's feed I, whether it's a work
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: a meeting room. They they never work, by the way,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: do they those those meeting room solutions. I don't think
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: I've ever seen had a seamless experience in any meeting
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: room anywhere. But yeah, I mean my view from from
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: total decks is basically anything that the employee touches, and
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: we're we're obviously in that space now right, we're doing
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: with what we have on mobile. I think we're starting
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: to understand how the employees are using their mobiles, their
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: mobile technologies, the applications, performance degradations on that on those devices.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: And then virtual infrastructure. I know the virtual infrastructure market
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: is growing. A lot of companies are obviously moving to
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: sort of cloud hosted solutions, and we want to have
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: a seamless The experience for the employee should be the
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: same whether they're working on a Windows device in the
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: office or they're using a virtual PC in the cloud.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: That experience should be seamless for the employer and based
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: on their persona in terms of how they work and operate.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: So I think from a total dex perspective, the expectation
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: is driven by the expectation of the employee more than anything.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: And bringing that back to the sort of de shops
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: macro topics, Scott, where do you think what is the
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: role that desksops pleas in ensuring that vision of total
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: decks is fully realized.
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: I think it comes from having the data across all
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: of these different systems. So they need to have the
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: data and then obviously that data needs to provide the
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: right insights or outcomes for the desktops team if they
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: know that there's degradation or the experience is degraded on
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: the virtual side of the house, and obviously that's where
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: they need to put The teams obviously need to put
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: their focus and understand what the problems are and use
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: that data to diagnose and improve experience. So from my perspective,
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: the desktop's team becomes critical to making sure that all
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: of the different pieces of the puzzle and the technology
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: stacks integrate and work seamlessly across the organization's landscape.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: What do you think in terms of you just laid
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: out coming back to hardware for a moment, just to
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: round things off, Scott, you just laid that a very
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: compelling case about the future and the necessity of more
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: sophisticated hardware refreshed programs. Why are relatively few businesses? Why
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: have relatively few businesses really implemented something like this yet?
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, most of the customers you and I encounter
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: are doing this. It's a very you know people who
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: are who are future facing with their attitude and approach
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: to decks. It's often one of the first projects that
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: they implement because they see the opportunities. What's holding others
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: back from doing it? Do you think or even from
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: approaching it? Kind of almost mentally is a thing that
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: they can do and should look into doing.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: I think there's like a force of habit there. Right,
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: It's just how it's just how it's been. We've always
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: done it this way. One other thing I have come across,
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: and I think this is changing, is the companies would
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: set out sort of capital expenditure for hardware, right, so
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: it almost had to be spent. I've worked with some
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: companies where they've said, well, you have that money to spend,
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: we sort of have to spend here taken off you
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: next year. We don't get it. So so I do
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: think the big shift at the moment, what we're seeing
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: is that obviously the prices are increasing drastically, all right,
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: So there's everybody looking at this and saying, well, hang
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: on a minute, my hardware prices are going to increase
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: by fifty maybe more. How do we you know, how
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: do we manage this going forward? And I think that's
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: the big, the big turning point now is that companies
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: are looking at this and saying, well, you know, we
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: could end up doubling our hardware spend. We're already spending
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: X amount a million on this, We're going to double
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: our hardware spend. We you know this is this is unexpected.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: We can't continue to manage manage things like this. And
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: that's where I think we're seeing seeing the big, big demand.
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: It's a really interesting point.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: And indeed, another factor that I meant to ask you
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: about today was sustainability, right, Yeah, to what degree is
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: that becoming moving from a kind of a nice to
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: have or I think that's nice to talk about to
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: an actual kind of motivating factor and do the factors
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that you've already detailed their play into that sustainability play
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: quite nicely as well.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean, the the majority of the carbon
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: emissions actually come from the manufacturing of the device. So
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: the less devices you procure, the less carbon emissions from
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: from the company, right, you reduce your you reduce your
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: carbon emissions. So that's the first play, the better management
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: of the devices once the devices are in your environment.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: We are seeing a lot of customers utilize sort of
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: power management plans and you know, looking at performance metrics
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: to reduce the carbon and measure the carbon emissions of
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: the devices. We're seeing customers significantly reduce their carbon emissions
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: from utilizing our platform. But from a hardware procurement perspective,
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: it's quite simple, right, the less devices you you buyer,
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: the less impact you have on the environment. We have
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: seen in the past as well, customers shift into procuring
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: refurbished devices as well, which is quite interesting. That was
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: about a year and a half two years ago. We
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: might see that come round again, right with the increase
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: in hardware prices, customers buying refurbished devices to reduce costs
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: but also then to hope they can offset the carbon
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: right because there's less emissions there, so that that could
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: be something that comes comes back around.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't know. We might see that. And
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: do you think there's a real like do you think
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: the level of kind of commitment among customers has changed
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: that you're encountering with regards to sustainability across the last
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: three years or is it a fashion which is waning
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: a little?
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: I think it depends what market you're in, like where
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: you are, what region of the world. But I saw
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: it a lot more, probably one to two years ago,
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: then I am seeing it now. I think customers still
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: still want to talk about it. They put it into
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: the the value proposition or the business case is in
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: a lot of business cases, but I wouldn't say it's
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: sort of a deciding factor. It also depends on the
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: industry and then and the sector as well.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: But yeah, super Stuff's got good insights. Before you go,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: let's have a prediction.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: People will even laugh at us. I'll do one to.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I will give one to I haven't thought about it yet,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: so your your worn is optimistic about and by prediction,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: I of course me relating to Wednesday nights football match.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Go on my.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: Prediction, I do think Argentina will score.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: I think free one English and free one.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna yeah, okay, I'm going to be optimistic to
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: just because at this point it seems it seems sad
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: not to be, doesn't it. I'm going to say, I'm
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: going to say free to England or like free free
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: and we went on penalties some some kind of mad cap.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: I don't think I could handle penalties.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: I get to watch it. I have a I have
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: a young son, so I get to watch the game
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: with my son. I don't think he he actually realizes.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: The weight of history.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: Exactly like from an Arsenal perspective. He's watched Arsenal since
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: we have been.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: And we've in England's had a good and England as well.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: In the years we've been, We've been waiting a very
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: long time for this, tom So, yeah, is it coming home?
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: Who knows?
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Who knows?
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I quite like we've not really heard that phrase this
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: World Cup for the first time.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: That's the first time somebody said it to me, you know.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: And Spain or Spain of France in the final, France France.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, surely, surely, yeah, yeah, I think England England France final.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: And that will be that will be a very very
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: tough game.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: They're front three indeed, and now it's going to be
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Argentinea Spain.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: And you know when you come in, when you come on.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: For your third episode, we will eat our crow everybody.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: We will, we will, we will fess up. Love you
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: to have you back, Scott, and look forward to having
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: you on again before the year is out.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Sir.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: That's it for this week's Deck Show. We'll be back
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: next week and if you don't already, be sure to
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: follow the show so you don't miss an episode until
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: next time.