Latest / The Delegation Download Podcast / Hiring Smart with Amanda – Interviewing, Red Flags & Culture Fit

Transcript

Hiring Smart with Amanda – Interviewing, Red Flags & Culture Fit · The Delegation Download Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Delegation Download Podcast, where business owners, CEOs, and leaders learn to work smarter, not harder.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're your hosts, Nicole Hughes and Ashley Carlson, here to share real stories, expert tips, and simple strategies to help you delegate with confidence and grow your business with support.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can do anything, but not everything.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to series two of the Delegation Download, The People Puzzle, Building Your Dream Team.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: This series is your guide to hiring with clarity, confidence, and strategy because the right people don't just fill roles, they fuel your vision.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're making your first hire or restructuring for scale will help you solve the hiring puzzle piece by piece.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And today we are thrilled to have Amanda Godwin with us.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: She is Elevate's manager of partnership success.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: We like to call her our mops here.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she's here to talk about one of the most make or break parts of hiring, and that is the interview process.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome, Amanda.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Before we dive in, can you share a little bit about yourself, your role, and how you support hiring and the team building here at Elevate?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I have to say this feels surreal to be on Elevate's podcast.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been here for four years and it just, wow, I can't believe how far we've come.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So very excited.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am Amanda Godwin and I am Elevate's manager of partnership success.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been with Elevate for four years now.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I am from a little small town in Mississippi.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I love what I do.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: My role is all about fostering strong partnerships between our team and our clients to make sure that they are all feeling supported and confident and thriving in their roles.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I love being in a position where I can celebrate wins, troubleshoot roadblocks and gaps, and really bridge the gap between our team and our clients.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's start with the basics.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: You've done a lot of hiring here at Elevate.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a part of the process, been a part of the ups and the downs, lessons learned and the celebrations as well.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you think?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with the lessons learned.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think most people get wrong during the interview process?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Great question.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you what we've gotten wrong before.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what a lot of people do get wrong is just rushing to hire.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: We can kind of get ourselves in a pickle and need to get someone in the door right now.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't allow for a lot of intentionality when it comes to hiring.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not just, you know, sourcing and hiring.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of prep work that goes into it because you've really got to evaluate what you're looking for and identify the like true outcome of the role and of the hire.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that pressure to just get someone in, uh, you really overlook the bigger picture and whether or not this person is really the right fit for the company, for your team, for the role.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that can be a really big struggle for people.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I also think that just like under preparation when it comes to hiring, kind of like I said, you're not really, you're not really looking at the bigger picture of not just the person, but like what outcomes are you wanting to see from this hire?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then whenever you're actually looking at the candidates, like, are you thoroughly, like, do you have the time to thoroughly look through their background?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever you show up to an interview and you haven't thoroughly done your prep work, it can really make you look, you know, like disorganized.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, it probably makes it harder on the person that you're evaluating to feel if they're a fit because you also want to have that mutual fit.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it can also lead to you not being able to make a confident decision.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think that something that came to mind for me as you were talking about the preparation and the asking the right questions and things like that, it all comes down to having a job description.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that seems kind of obvious, but maybe the why I don't think people realize the why behind it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Not all like you don't just need a job description just because of the formality of it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: It actually really helps you make sure you know what seat am I trying to fill?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Who am I looking for?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: What skills am I looking for?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Also, it comes down to knowing your culture as a business because I think it's asking a lot of questions around that too, and making sure that this is not only the right person to fill the seat on the bus, but is this person a fit for this bus in the first place?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I think like to your point of not rushing, making sure you're prepared, it's more than just the checking the boxes and the formality.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much behind it as to why.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: So one thing I wanted to ask you, um, because obviously you and I do the hiring together, but I know that we hear, I just I'll know the right person when I meet them, but it doesn't always work that way.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, how would you advise a business owner to balance the gut feeling of hiring with also looking at skill, capacity, alignment, and all of that?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that it's important for us to trust our gut, but it doesn't always like, yes, it's important.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: It can be helpful, but it isn't always enough.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that especially, and we've seen it in hiring with at Elevate, and just like kind of in the virtual realm, you get a lot of information up front.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Everything looks great on paper, and then you meet someone in person or you know, across a Zoom, and you're you're kind of getting one side of them at that point, but you need to dig a little bit deeper than that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you need to ask more than just surface level questions.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to trusting your gut, you've really got to balance trusting your gut with like a little bit of structure too.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you're you need to define what success looks like before you step into that call.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you want to see this role in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: How do you want this person or role to be integrated with your team?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like as far as collaboration with the team?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you're relying, relying solely on the feeling that you get, someone may feel like they've got a great personality, you know, in the interview.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: They might be a great personality fit, but do they truly have the skills?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do they have the capacity and the bandwidth?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: What is their communication style?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you want them?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are they able to present that to your team, to your clients, the people that you're serving?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that having a bit of structure, having some pointed questions consistent across the board because you are going to be interviewing multiple people, you can add it, you know, you can use the personality fit, you can use the vibes that you're getting, but you're also able to create a fuller picture using the structure that you have in place to be able to make that decision a little bit more confidently.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because you might, you might run into people, multiple people who you really mesh with that have a great personality, but you've got to balance that with the right amount of skills and qualifications.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are you, what are your non-negotiables when it comes to, you know, what you want to see out of a hire.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to have that in place too.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and something that you've said now twice is defining what done looks like, defining what that end goal of the role is.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about that in delegation too.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You have to define what success looks like.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes for when you're hiring somebody as well.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just, you're not hiring a friend, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're hiring somebody to come and support your business to help grow your business.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And by defining what done looks like for that specific role within that job description, and by asking the right questions, that allows you to really understand who that person is and how they can help you get to that end goal of what you want that role to look like.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like we've we've seen them before, we've dealt with them before, but let's talk about red flags.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the signs that you have seen during an interview or that you have talked to clients about that might say, you know what, this person is just not the right fit for this role?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I mean, we see it from time to time.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important to look for those things to be able to identify red flags early on, because you, I mean, that's the only way that you can, you know, whittle down the process, especially if you're tackling it from a really large pool.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that sometimes they can also be tricky because they can be subtle.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So things that I pay attention to in an interview are the types of responses and the answers that you're getting.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: If they're vague, if they're inconsistent, if they can't tie them to anything like measurable when it comes to like goals and metrics, things like that.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: If they can't give concrete examples of their past work, or if they're talking and you hear inconsistencies or like they're contradicting themselves, sometimes that can mean that there's like a lack of experience, or worse, they're not, that's not a true reflection of their past work.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I also think that, especially in our roles, communication is super important.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, how are they communicating to you in the interview process?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And is that how you'd want them to communicate to your clients or to the audience that you serve?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So poor communication is a huge red red flag for me.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we've talked about it so many times, but just like a lack of curiosity.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So are they asking enough questions?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Have they done their research before they stepped into the interview?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Can they speak to who you are as a company?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: What kinds of are they asking questions?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: What kinds of questions are they asking?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is the worst feeling for me to leave an interview and someone you ask them if they have any questions for you, and they're like, no, I'm good.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've got it.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's like, well, do you?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like you haven't asked us a single thing.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a lot of information from our candidates, but we also want them to ask more questions of us and so that we can make sure that they feel aligned with us and our mission as much as we want to make sure that we feel aligned with them.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of something.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, side note, I'm gonna go on a tangent for a second, but we're re-watching Ted Lasso.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't seen that series, please do because it is phenomenal.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing that Ted says is be curious.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you have to be.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Even as a candidate who's looking at joining a business or applying for a position in a company, be curious.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Ask those questions so that you can get the answers as well.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just the employer hiring the person, it's also the person joining the company.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure that you're a right fit for those that are listening who are maybe going through a hiring process to be an employee, make sure you're asking questions too, because it's important for the employer then.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, I think that that's really the only way that one, you can make sure that there's a mutual fit.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: But for the candidate that's interviewing, I think that it's important.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that I've gone into interviews before, just wondering like, what does success look like for me in this role?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So as much as we come into it interviewing them, having like needing to define success, they they have to have a clear understanding of what that looks like in order for them to ensure that they understand the job and that they can do it to the best of their ability.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So super important.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that for me, also, I mean, we hire, we've learned to hire off of our culture values, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Our our culture values are like our core values are truly our core values.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: They they are why we make decisions we make, how we operate, how we serve our clients, how we collaborate with each other, all of those things.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I feel like also, like to your point, you mentioned inconsistencies with questions.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that we ask certain core value type related questions and also skill related on the initial application, that by the time they make it to the one-on-one interview, we ask certain ones over again, but in a different way.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a live opportunity for us to hear a little bit more about how they present that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And those consistencies are definitely something that we look for.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And to your point as well, I it also is a huge red flag for me when someone says they have no questions because it is really important to me that each person on our team is really excited about being here because I know that the people that we already have on the team are really aligned and excited about what we're doing.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so for someone to come into the business or come into the interview, I know they don't know the business well, and that's okay.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: But you should have questions.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to be curious.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to want to know more.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we've seen all kinds of questions.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be anything profound by any means, but you should have some sort of interest in wanting to know the business a little bit more.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it's a big big red flag for someone to say they don't have any questions.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: That shows lack of ownership and interest to me.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, that shows that maybe they're, they might have the skills to fit the seat, but would they mesh well on the bus with everyone else?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: So someone just said to me the other day that they hire, they could go to one-on-one interviews as the business owner, not just with their own perspective in mind, but they feel like they are a representative.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: They are interviewing this teammate on behalf of all teammates.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought that that was really a good way to look at it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that people just need to remember that you're the representative of everyone who's existing on the team to make sure that this one person is gonna bring value and lift the team up, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Be that missing puzzle piece.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So now going, so like I said, you and I do these one-on-one interviews together.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: And what are some interview questions that you love that we ask that really helps uncover someone's values and their attitude and their alignment with Elevate?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we ask a ton of questions.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have multiple steps in our interview process, but I did want to touch on something that you just said before I kind of dive into that, because I also think it's important you mentioned asking the same question over and over again, um, or in, you know, a little bit of a different way.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And before I lost my train of thought, I just wanted to touch on that.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it it all ties into this.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that especially if you have multiple rounds of interviews or if you have different people interviewing the same person, like, you know, a panel interview and then a one-on-one, et cetera, having that structure where you're asking similar questions or the same questions, that can be so important, not only to identify inconsistencies if there are any, but I think that also I've been in plenty of interviews where it's like I get asked a question and it's I can't make words anymore.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the thoughts just don't come.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so allow, you know, you have a little bit of space between the first interview and maybe your panel interview or the next one-on-one.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: You should be seeing increased, like increased detail in those answers.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that's also important to see how they're expanding on whatever they've already previously, you know, the information they previously given to you.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that can also show kind of how they approach, how they approach certain things.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: As far as questions that I like to answer, uh, that I like to ask, I think that it's a mix of fun, you know, the skill level, like you've got to ask skill-based questions, but I think it's equally important to ask behavioral questions.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I also think that it's important to ask, you know, like what does so there's there's certain questions that we always get asked.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me about a time, you know, that you solved a problem or, you know, there was a challenge, how did you overcome it?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think for us, I like to tie the questions to the work that we actually do to see how they might approach a similar situation because it's likely going to come up again.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me about a time where you solved a problem, but you didn't have clear direction because we deal with clients that struggle with delegation or don't give us all the details.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's important for me to ask.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: So really tying it into the work that you actually do and the people that you serve is important.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also think asking questions about how they would collaborate with you or with the team, how they would approach leadership.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you like to receive feedback?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: What does support look like for you from leadership?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Things like that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And even fun questions, you know, what is a does a great work day look like for you?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Things like that are important and also long-term vision.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love asking about uh what they, you know, how they see themselves in the next six to 12 months, um, just to kind of create a full picture.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Not just right now, what are they looking for in this moment?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because right now they're looking for a job and they're trying, they're they're saying you know, they're they're here for a specific reason.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: We already know that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: But where do they see themselves?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And does it allow for growth?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Does it paint the picture of them growing with us?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love the questions that we ask in our interview because I think it gives really good insight to not just who the employee would be, but also to who the person is.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that those are important questions because you need to know the person as well that you're hiring, not just the employee and their skills.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you personally balance instinct with what the candidate is actually showing you with their answers?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that it's kind of like we were talking about earlier, where you kind of have to trust your gut, but you've got to find that right balance.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you are combining your intuition with the structure that you've created.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like your gut feeling is important.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that can give you a really good sense early on of someone's personality, their energy, but you can't rely on that alone.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that one important piece is creating the structure of the interview, but also the structure of the evaluation, like a scorecard.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So having clear criteria for what success looks like in the role, as we've already said, whether that's skills, communication, problem solving, cultural alignment, all those things are important, but it helps keep the decision objective in a way.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it makes it easier to compare one candidate to the other, reducing the risk of bias sneaking in somehow.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it's just really finding that balance between trusting your gut, but really like being able to make a confident decision by having something like a scorecard, clear criteria that you are seeking for that role.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, we've also seen it where we've we've gotten down to the wire and we've got two candidates that feel equally great.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and then you really do have to trust your gut.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like you've got to make a great, like a gut decision on, you know, two people that feel like they're a great fit and they have a lot of potential.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that's what it is.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it is maybe they are a great fit, you know, with your company, with the mission, the vision.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they lack, you know, this specific skill over this candidate.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: But this person is like you can tell that they have growth opportunity, like growth potential, that they are excited to learn, that they are willing to put in the work.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there's there's so many factors that go into it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really just finding that balance.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you've got to trust your gut, but you've also got to have clear criteria.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the end of the process, if you've got you know multiple candidates that you love, I mean, kudos to you.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then you really do trust your gut and move forward with um with the best fit in mind.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's sorry.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, go ahead.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Just go ahead.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was just gonna say that um for me when you said the non-negotiables, what it and and what your gut says and all of that, what I what comes to mind for me is you almost need to have this list, like you said, on the scorecard of all of your non-negotiables.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like it has this has to work because I can't teach it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: This, you know, this is an innate whatever it is.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of it comes down to behavioral, right?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we've also been in had conversations in interviews and had a really strong candidate.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: But to your point, they might be weaker in some areas, but we have all you and I have already defined where we can support them through those things.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: We can can help them grow their experience there to be able to handle it in the way that we want and need.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're, I think just going through the questions you ask, the application, the job description, all of that, really making sure that you, the interviewer, are clear on what we can teach and what is okay if they're not super strong in, but what has to be strong because we can't teach that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we need them to just be aligned, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so that has helped us for sure overcome all of the people that we talk to that are so lovely.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we wish we could create a thousand jobs for all these amazing people because it is hard.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Where when you are, you know, you're hiring people, right?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: You're talking with people.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's very hard to not let that human side creep in.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the preparation helps you be able to do that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that also to your point, like you have your non-negotiables, you've also got your nice to have when it comes to the list, you know, of things that you want out of this candidate.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: But for business owners, I think that you have to keep in mind when it comes to potential and you see potential in someone, do you have the time and the energy and the resources to put into that candidate in order to get them to where they need to be?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes you do have to fill a critical spot in that moment.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so that can, you know, that can alter your decision leaning one way or the other.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So looking at your own resources and your time and your energy, which are equally important, that's a big piece of it too.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think some non-negotiables become flexible.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Some flexible ones become non-negotiable depending on the time.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, again, just the awareness of that heading in is really important.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about culture.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Cause like I said, that's a really big thing for us, and a big a lot of the behavioral questions that we ask is around our culture.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, what do you think about the difference between hiring for culture fit versus a culture ad?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I've ever heard it called a culture ad before, but I like that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: You always hear culture fit.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that yes, we obviously want to have someone who's a good culture fit.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that hiring for culture fit, sometimes though, you focus on do they fit in with the team right now?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are they similar to this, you know, to the team as a whole or to these specific people?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: You want to make sure that they're able to blend with the existing team, but we don't want, you know, duplicates of the same person.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that whenever you're looking for a culture fit, I like the idea of shifting it to a culture ad because what you're doing is you're focusing on shared values, you know, like in the broader sense, but not necessarily shared personalities or skill sets.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: You want someone Who like has our same like core principles and approach to the work that we do so that they they fit and they align with our team.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: But we also want someone who brings new perspectives, different experiences, maybe different ways of thinking or different approaches to certain situations.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're adding to the culture, we're enhancing our culture instead of just blending into it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's so important when you have built a culture and you want to make sure that you're adding people that are going to amplify that.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so you do have to trust your gut a little bit there too, in a sense of you're having a couple of conversations with these potential candidates.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's in those conversations that you have to better understand the person as a person to make sure that they are going to be right for the culture that you are building or have already built and you're bringing them into it as the ad.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: So hiring is not for the weak of heart.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to tell you that right now.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is something that is, it can be hard at times.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we touched on it earlier, but we often, and I have been in interviews where I don't necessarily feel like I can ask questions about the role and what it is and what the company is and the culture of the company and things like that.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times I think people forget that it's a two-way street and that the interviewees need to be able to almost interview the employer in a sense.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So how have you made it so that our interview process is inclusive and fair and shows what our company is and in the right light and to showcase that it may be the right fit or the wrong fit for the candidate?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think one thing that we've done, I mean, we try to give as much information up front, like we try to be as transparent as possible to the candidate before they even meet us, you know, before they even apply.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a ton of information about who we are.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can see our website, you can see this detailed job description.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, and when it comes to interviewing, it's a two-way street.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: They are interviewing you as much as you are interviewing them.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yes, some people feel uncomfortable asking questions, or maybe they just don't have any in the moment.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, ideally, you want a two-way conversation going.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think starting with giving all of the as much information as you can up front is important, making sure that your job description, you know, has all of the success metrics for the role, making sure that the language you use is aligned with your company, with your, you know, with the culture, making sure that you're not creating any any barriers, any unnecessary barriers.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the interview process, I think that this kind of goes back to the different interview questions that we use, but I think that also just using open-ended questions are key.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times you kind of just hear rehearsed what feels like rehearsed answers.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: So using open-ended questions kind of allows for more storytelling and you kind of get a fuller picture of not just how they do the work, but who they are as a person.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think that inviting, you know, open-ended questions, like we said, you know, allows for the same for us.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we've had people that have come in that have asked some really insightful questions.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I have always loved that.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it, you know, it it kind of makes me think a little bit too.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of changed the way that I approach interviews because the questions they ask me, I've turned around and asked, you know, other people.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that the open-ended questions are important.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And again, leaning on your structure for evaluations, but I think that just communication and transparency is the most impactful thing for me.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think candidates will appreciate, you know, knowing what the process looks like from start to finish.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that we've had to change over time is giving more visibility into the actual interview process, making sure that you're following up with candidates, making sure that you're communicating with them along the way.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know that we're busy, but you have to be intentional when it comes to hiring.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: You have to make time for communicating with candidates.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, out of respect and just professionalism.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: How do you want to present yourself to candidates in the interview process?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, sometimes it feels like we're being interviewed ourselves.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way it should be.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I love when people ask questions, like I said earlier.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it's really important to me that when we feel excited about someone, they're also really excited about the possibilities as well.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: It shows we're big on growth.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like growth is one of our core values.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: We want to see people who want to grow and learn and do more.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so when there's excitement and interest around getting to know us better and all of that, it really I want them to feel that.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then if they feel disengaged and disconnected, that's okay.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're not the right fit for everybody.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: But it's really important to us that we feel like they're just as excited as we are.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: So well, Amanda, thank you so much.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: This was gold.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we probably could have talked for a whole nother hour on this, might maybe another day.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I'm sure there's more we could dive into.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks everybody for tuning in to the People Puzzle series on the Delegation Download.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode brought you one step closer to your dream team, hit follow and share it with other leaders who are building too.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to grab your free hiring resource in the link in the show notes.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, you've got this.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to the Delegation Download Podcast.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and follow us at Elevate VB Solutions for more tips to help you lead smarter and live better.