Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / MISSING US SCIENTISTS DEATH TOLL 17, NUCLEAR LAB WORKER FOUND SKELETONIZED

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MISSING US SCIENTISTS DEATH TOLL 17, NUCLEAR LAB WORKER FOUND SKELETONIZED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Tonight, the FBI continues its probe and to space scientists
0:04
Speaker 1: dead and missing, as the death toll actually rises to seventeen.
0:11
Speaker 1: Good evening, I'mancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want
0:14
Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. The toll of
0:24
Speaker 1: missing and or dead space scientists has risen.
0:27
Speaker 2: Well, you have very very greet people who have these
0:30
Speaker 2: kinds of very strange or suspicious circumstances.
0:32
Speaker 1: Around anti gravity and jet propulsion, special alloys made for
0:38
Speaker 1: high intensity heat, ideas and theories that most of us
0:43
Speaker 1: have never imagined until they go missing or are found dead.
0:49
Speaker 3: Number of them have gone missing with the same circumstances.
0:53
Speaker 1: How can these not be connected?
0:56
Speaker 3: This is highly alarming and ought to be investedated thoroughly
1:00
Speaker 3: by the FBI.
1:03
Speaker 1: Joining us tonight Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt What
1:07
Speaker 1: about it?
1:07
Speaker 4: Dave Matt Nancy in a shocking update to the scientist's story.
1:13
Speaker 4: You know, we've been covering missing and dead scientists, and
1:18
Speaker 4: now the body, the skeletonized remains of Melissa Cassias has
1:24
Speaker 4: been found. She was working in New Mexico in Los
1:28
Speaker 4: Alamos and went missing June of last year. June twenty
1:33
Speaker 4: twenty five, she takes her daughter lunch. She is seen
1:38
Speaker 4: walking down the road the last time she was seen
1:41
Speaker 4: and when she went missing. The investigation began right at
1:44
Speaker 4: her house where investigators found two cell phones of Melissa
1:49
Speaker 4: Cassias at home and were a factory reset and by
1:55
Speaker 4: the way, not factory reset at the exact same time,
1:59
Speaker 4: but factory reset at different times when she went missing.
2:04
Speaker 4: It was one of those remarkable things where there was
2:07
Speaker 4: nothing out of the ordinary. She's just doing normal things
2:11
Speaker 4: throughout the day, going so far as to actually drive
2:15
Speaker 4: her husband to work, which was quite a distance, but
2:18
Speaker 4: then forgot her lab her identification and had to go
2:22
Speaker 4: back home to get it. At that point, we think
2:25
Speaker 4: maybe she just decided to work from home that day.
2:27
Speaker 4: But something went squarely and Melissica Seas was seen walking
2:33
Speaker 4: down the road in Taos County, New Mexico. Then poof,
2:37
Speaker 4: she's gone. As Melissica Cias went missing and became part
2:42
Speaker 4: of this list of scientists. You know, we've had several
2:46
Speaker 4: from New Mexico and California and in the Northeast. It's
2:50
Speaker 4: amazing how there's these clusters of scientists and people associated
2:55
Speaker 4: with labs dealing with UFOs dealing with nuclear power and
3:02
Speaker 4: alternative energy sources.
3:03
Speaker 5: I mean, it's just amazing.
3:05
Speaker 4: And in New Mexico there have been at least four,
3:09
Speaker 4: maybe more workers associated with Los Alamos and the people
3:15
Speaker 4: with security clearance that have gone missing. And Melissicaci As
3:20
Speaker 4: the first found. Her skeletonized remains were found in an
3:25
Speaker 4: area where her family says I thought we already searched
3:29
Speaker 4: that area. The description is that Melissicasius was found. Her
3:34
Speaker 4: skeletonized remains were found propped up against a tree with
3:40
Speaker 4: a gun sitting next to her remains. This is an
3:46
Speaker 4: amazing turn of events as we continue to try to
3:50
Speaker 4: find out what happened to the scientists that are still
3:54
Speaker 4: missing and how did some come to their end. Nancy,
3:58
Speaker 4: this is incredible breaking news and we are following it.
4:02
Speaker 1: Tonight, I'm calling in a death investigator, a renowned death investigator,
4:07
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. He is
4:11
Speaker 1: the author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon and
4:15
Speaker 1: he's the star of a hit podcast, Bodybags with Joseph
4:18
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. What more can you tell us?
4:22
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean, it's not uncommon to find an
4:27
Speaker 6: attact skeleton, and particularly in an arid environment where you
4:34
Speaker 6: have the skeleton or the tissue that connects the skeleton
4:38
Speaker 6: and it'll be in a desiccated state but still attached.
4:42
Speaker 6: What is kind of intriguing though, is the fact that
4:46
Speaker 6: her remains had not seen any kind of scavenging. And
4:50
Speaker 6: this is very wild land out there. They are coyotes
4:53
Speaker 6: in all manner of other animals that are out there
4:58
Speaker 6: that would in fact gavage on human remains. The fact
5:04
Speaker 6: that she's in a seated upright position slumped forward, if
5:09
Speaker 6: we are to believe that we've heard thus far, again
5:13
Speaker 6: not uncommon. I think in order to completely assess the scene,
5:19
Speaker 6: I would I'd probably need to know more about the
5:23
Speaker 6: immediate area around her and also kind of, if you will,
5:29
Speaker 6: the surrounding area at the base. Because they're saying a tree.
5:32
Speaker 6: I've also heard a wall too. I don't know where
5:34
Speaker 6: that information came from, but it sounds like a tree.
5:37
Speaker 6: It's in a wooded area, which is kind of curious,
5:42
Speaker 6: you know, in this particular region of the country, right,
5:46
Speaker 6: And so the position that she's in it does draw
5:49
Speaker 6: my attention as a forensic investigator. I'd want to know more, though,
5:53
Speaker 6: about the surrounding area. I want to know if there's
5:55
Speaker 6: any signs of struggle in the dirt around that area,
5:58
Speaker 6: and by this point time would there still be any
6:01
Speaker 6: evidence of that. I think that that's very important as
6:04
Speaker 6: well as a matter of fact. You know work countless
6:06
Speaker 6: cases where the individual is still holding the weapon, you
6:10
Speaker 6: do find them that they fall away. What's more compelling
6:14
Speaker 6: about a gunshot wound is, first off, we don't know
6:18
Speaker 6: the nature of the gunshot wound. Is this they're saying
6:21
Speaker 6: gunshot wound of the head, Well, that's very generalized anatomically,
6:26
Speaker 6: where is this round position the entrance round or the
6:30
Speaker 6: entrance entrance wound? And also is it an intra oral
6:37
Speaker 6: gunshot wound which means the muscle has been placed in
6:39
Speaker 6: the mouth, or is it lateral which is kind of typical,
6:44
Speaker 6: or is it more of an atypical thing where maybe
6:46
Speaker 6: you'll have it on the posterier aspect, or you can
6:50
Speaker 6: also have beneath or inferior to the chin as well.
6:56
Speaker 6: So those are the areas you're looking at. The other
6:58
Speaker 6: piece to this that's very very important. I have to say,
7:02
Speaker 6: if this is not an intra oral gunshot, woman, that
7:05
Speaker 6: means placement is here, here or here. Range of fire
7:13
Speaker 6: is very very important because most of the time, when
7:17
Speaker 6: you have self inflicted you're going to have what's referred
7:20
Speaker 6: to as a press contact or tight contact, okay, in
7:24
Speaker 6: order to facilitate this. This is just something people naturally
7:29
Speaker 6: do when they're you know, doing self harm, fatal self
7:33
Speaker 6: harm like this. If it the further the entrance women
7:39
Speaker 6: migrates around posteriorly, the bigger the question mark gets. Okay,
7:45
Speaker 6: And because it's contrary we see on television and those
7:48
Speaker 6: sorts of things. If you've got some level of distance
7:52
Speaker 6: between the end of the muzzle and the actual contact space,
7:55
Speaker 6: the further and further it moves away, the probably that
8:01
Speaker 6: it is self inflicted decreases substantially. So range of fire
8:05
Speaker 6: is going to be very important. And with skeletal remains
8:08
Speaker 6: that can be be very very difficult to determine. If
8:11
Speaker 6: there is no soft tissue or even the desiccated tissue,
8:15
Speaker 6: we can actually you know, begin to begin to suss
8:19
Speaker 6: that out as well. You know, we've heard that term before.
8:23
Speaker 6: The sin you will still be intact, particularly in an
8:27
Speaker 6: arid climate like in New Mexico. Okay, but yeah, the
8:31
Speaker 6: clothing facilitates that the type of clothing, right, some of
8:35
Speaker 6: these synthetics that tightly fit to the body like this,
8:38
Speaker 6: some of the things that you would lose perhaps would
8:41
Speaker 6: be some of the digits, some of the elements of
8:44
Speaker 6: the hand, tinier bones. But again, if she's fully clothed,
8:48
Speaker 6: you have containment right from a skeletal standpoint. And yes, yes,
8:54
Speaker 6: I mean I think people are surprised to find out
8:55
Speaker 6: that the head would still be president of the skull,
8:58
Speaker 6: and yes, that does happen. Had countless, countless numbers of these.
9:02
Speaker 6: So again we have to back up from the fantastical
9:06
Speaker 6: things that we see in movies and those sorts of
9:08
Speaker 6: things and look at the real science behind this and
9:11
Speaker 6: again until we get more information. And really, the big
9:15
Speaker 6: thing guys, I got to tell you got to look
9:16
Speaker 6: out for in this case is when you see those
9:19
Speaker 6: reports and they start talking about a range of fire,
9:22
Speaker 6: that's going to be your key. That's what you want
9:25
Speaker 6: to look to because that in that the tale will
9:28
Speaker 6: be told.
9:35
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be remiss if I did not mention physicist
9:40
Speaker 1: brilliant physicist, doctor Ning Lee. She had been awarded four
9:45
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars from the DoD and she
9:50
Speaker 1: disappeared briefly. Then she was mowed down in a crosswalk.
9:56
Speaker 1: Nobody else went out in the crosswalk, but she was
9:59
Speaker 1: suddenly thrust into the crosswalk. She got mowed down. Her
10:04
Speaker 1: husband immediately had a heart attack and later died. She
10:10
Speaker 1: was brain dad and then later died. To Stephanie Harlow
10:16
Speaker 1: joining us COOS Crime Weekly podcast, what can you tell
10:22
Speaker 1: me about her? I know she's Chinese American, and I
10:25
Speaker 1: know that she was brilliant, and I know nobody but
10:29
Speaker 1: her ended up in that crosswalk when she got mowed down.
10:34
Speaker 7: Doctor Ningley worked at the University of Alabama in Huntsville
10:39
Speaker 7: and she was doing anti gravity work and research there.
10:43
Speaker 7: She then left the university after a significant amount of
10:46
Speaker 7: time there and she started her own business. And then
10:48
Speaker 7: the government came calling and they gave her that grant
10:51
Speaker 7: to work on continued anti gravity research, because this is Huntsville,
10:55
Speaker 7: they do that stuff there as well as advanced propulsion research.
10:59
Speaker 7: And then she started working with the government, and at
11:03
Speaker 7: that point she kind of went dark, and there was
11:06
Speaker 7: a big thing online for a while because people thought
11:09
Speaker 7: she disappeared.
11:10
Speaker 2: She was off the map for quite a bit. And
11:12
Speaker 2: there was a.
11:13
Speaker 7: Journalist who was trying to find her to talk to
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Speaker 7: her about her research, and he couldn't find her, and
11:17
Speaker 7: he reached out to another anti gravity researcher, Eugene Polannach,
11:24
Speaker 7: and Eugene said, oh, she's working for the government. She
11:27
Speaker 7: just can't talk to anybody about what she's doing right now.
11:31
Speaker 7: But Eugene also said, I haven't been able to reach
11:34
Speaker 7: her either. And it was several years later when this
11:39
Speaker 7: same journalist finally tracked down doctor Ningli's son, and the
11:43
Speaker 7: son said she had been a hit. She had been
11:46
Speaker 7: in a terrible car accident which had left her with
11:48
Speaker 7: permanent brain damage. She developed dementia, and then he took
11:52
Speaker 7: care of her for several years until she finally passed
11:56
Speaker 7: away from this. But she was never the same obviously,
11:59
Speaker 7: she never went back to work.
12:00
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, Stephanie, is that doctor Lee has
12:05
Speaker 1: been compared to Amelia Earhart. She is the Amelia Earhart
12:11
Speaker 1: of physics, the scientists that many people say quote discovered
12:17
Speaker 1: anti gravity. That's the significance of who is doctor ning Lee.
12:26
Speaker 1: She is was brilliant, very quickly. I want to go
12:31
Speaker 1: to John Nance, former Supervisory Special Agent FBI assigned to
12:38
Speaker 1: DC and Miami. Got a question for you, John Nance,
12:44
Speaker 1: explain the significance of anti gravity research as a lay person.
12:50
Speaker 1: The best way I can describe it is, we obey
12:56
Speaker 1: the laws of gravity. We understand them. Anti gravity research
13:01
Speaker 1: as it relates to aircraft of any type, means that
13:06
Speaker 1: an aircraft could go up down to the side tangential
13:11
Speaker 1: any way it wished, and at speeds unlike anything we understand.
13:18
Speaker 1: So how valuable is it? Did I capsualize it correctly?
13:24
Speaker 8: Well, when you're talking about anti gravity or field propulsion systems,
13:28
Speaker 8: you're not really talking about pushing a craft through space.
13:33
Speaker 8: You're talking about actually moving space and time around a craft.
13:38
Speaker 8: So a bubble is created.
13:41
Speaker 2: And I don't know exactly how that.
13:43
Speaker 8: I'm sure there are other people that could address that
13:44
Speaker 8: up in much more technical terms than I can, but essentially,
13:48
Speaker 8: a space time bubble is created around the craft if
13:52
Speaker 8: such technology is actually available, and so you're actually moving
13:58
Speaker 8: warping base and time around the craft. That's why they
14:03
Speaker 8: appear to move in ways that are completely alien to
14:07
Speaker 8: our understanding of physics, or at least material science. Anyway,
14:13
Speaker 8: I think our physics can explain it, But our material
14:16
Speaker 8: science is in no way capable at this point of
14:20
Speaker 8: producing those that kind of performance. So I think, generally speaking, yes,
14:26
Speaker 8: you're correct, but it's not the normal way of thinking about.
14:33
Speaker 8: Like a jet engine works by sucking in air, producing
14:36
Speaker 8: thrust and blowing that out the back of an engine.
14:39
Speaker 8: That is not what we're talking about exactly.
14:42
Speaker 1: Anti gravity craft is, I understand it, highly advanced aerospace
14:48
Speaker 1: vehicles designed and they manipulate gravity fields for propulsion. The
14:56
Speaker 1: most cited example is the t R thirty eight Black Manta.
15:02
Speaker 1: It's rumored to be a triangular nuclear powered spyplane using
15:09
Speaker 1: accelerated pressurized mercury, and it creates a plasma based anti
15:15
Speaker 1: gravity field around it. Just as John Nance was describing,
15:21
Speaker 1: it's beyond what US regular trial lawyers are used to discussing.
15:27
Speaker 1: But needless to say, back to Stephanie Harlow, co hostar
15:32
Speaker 1: of Crime Weekly, it's incredibly valuable not just to our
15:39
Speaker 1: defense but financially to our government, to whatever private entity
15:46
Speaker 1: or corporation ultimately develops it. And there's high interest in
15:52
Speaker 1: foreign entities regarding US research and anti gravity now. But
15:58
Speaker 1: after being mowed down in a crosswall, and I keep
16:01
Speaker 1: going back John Nance joining me, former supervisory special agent
16:06
Speaker 1: with the FBI, to the fact that, for instance, in Manhattan,
16:11
Speaker 1: everybody walks out into the street when they think that
16:13
Speaker 1: they're not going to get run over. They don't look
16:16
Speaker 1: at the walk don't walk signs okay. In this case
16:19
Speaker 1: in Huntsville, nobody else stepped out in the crosswalk. Nobody
16:24
Speaker 1: stepped out but her, and she got mode down, immediate
16:31
Speaker 1: forever brain damage. She could never work as a physicist
16:36
Speaker 1: again after that.
16:41
Speaker 8: There are simply too many data points to think that
16:44
Speaker 8: this is, you know, explainable by a coincidence. The the
16:48
Speaker 8: the all these events that are surrounding especially these what
16:52
Speaker 8: we're calling the anti grab technology, is us simply the
16:58
Speaker 8: the the correlation is simply too strong to ignore. And
17:04
Speaker 8: it kind of reminds me of some of the things
17:06
Speaker 8: that the Bureau used to do back during the Cold War.
17:09
Speaker 8: In fact, agents assigned to counterintelligence functions would often tail
17:16
Speaker 8: KGB agents into the New York subway systems and quote
17:20
Speaker 8: unquote give them a bump, so to speak, as an
17:23
Speaker 8: intimidation tactic, kind of pushing them toward the.
17:30
Speaker 5: Subway.
17:31
Speaker 8: So what happened to her sounds, you know, hauntingly familiar
17:36
Speaker 8: to that type of thing. Obviously, FBI agents weren't trying
17:39
Speaker 8: to to to kill KGB agents, but you know, not
17:44
Speaker 8: something that is certainly unheard of within intelligence or or
17:49
Speaker 8: counterintelligence communities. So obviously incredibly suspicious. And we keep going
17:57
Speaker 8: back to people who are involved in the UAP spear
18:03
Speaker 8: or you know, more commonly known as the UFO sphere.
18:07
Speaker 8: I think we've had three congressional hearings on this so far,
18:11
Speaker 8: and Matthew Sullivan's case is extremely disturbing. You have an
18:17
Speaker 8: individual that was getting ready to come forward and testify
18:19
Speaker 8: before Congress about matters of incredibly sensitive intelligence value. So
18:27
Speaker 8: I think that the FBI has has every cause to
18:31
Speaker 8: be highly concerned. And also Representative birch Ed and Luna
18:36
Speaker 8: have also been leading the charge on these matters as
18:40
Speaker 8: well as Burls, and so you have incredibly credible people
18:45
Speaker 8: who are very very concerned about all these matters. So
18:49
Speaker 8: this isn't something to be taken lightly or to be
18:52
Speaker 8: dismissed as crazy UFO talk. This implicates very very real
18:58
Speaker 8: technologies and programs that have been a tested to you know,
19:03
Speaker 8: crash retrieval programs that have been attested to under oath
19:06
Speaker 8: for Congress.
19:10
Speaker 1: Joining US. Tonight Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt. Dave Matt,
19:15
Speaker 1: what more can you tell us, Nancy?
19:18
Speaker 4: The body of nuclear lab worker Melissicasius found nearly eleven
19:24
Speaker 4: months after she was reported missing with an apparent gunshot
19:29
Speaker 4: wound to the head. Her decaying body is how it's described,
19:34
Speaker 4: skeletonized remains found propped up against a tree in an
19:38
Speaker 4: area that families say, hey.
19:40
Speaker 5: We already looked there.
19:42
Speaker 4: Melissica see us fifty four years old when she was
19:44
Speaker 4: last seen, reported missing June twenty sixth of last year.
19:49
Speaker 4: The remains discovered in McCaffrey Ridge area of the Carson
19:57
Speaker 4: National Forest.
19:59
Speaker 5: Handgun found near the remains.
20:01
Speaker 4: Investigators not publicly announcing a lot of information about the find,
20:06
Speaker 4: but an investigator hired by the family believes foul play
20:10
Speaker 4: involved in Melissicacia's death. And something to really pay attention
20:16
Speaker 4: to here is that while her skeletonized remains are found
20:21
Speaker 4: outside in the woods, propped up against a tree, but
20:26
Speaker 4: there doesn't appear to be any type of animal scavenging
20:31
Speaker 4: of her remains. This is not something that we hear
20:35
Speaker 4: a lot of. I'm sure it's not as uncommon as
20:38
Speaker 4: we think, but still skeletonized remains. Melissica Sea's body found
20:44
Speaker 4: in the Carson National Forests in New Mexico.
20:49
Speaker 1: As you all know by now, brilliant brilliant scientists. Frank
20:56
Speaker 1: Millburn joining us former British intelligence officer who knew Amy
21:00
Speaker 1: very well and he spoke with Amy just hours before
21:04
Speaker 1: her death. First of all, thank you for joining us tonight.
21:08
Speaker 1: What more can you tell us?
21:11
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's extremely concerning. I mean you had
21:13
Speaker 2: a very mysterious circumstances around her previously, you know, leaving
21:17
Speaker 2: her phone, leaving her documents behind, which is extremely worrying.
21:22
Speaker 2: And if you're going on a hike, for example, and
21:24
Speaker 2: you'd want to have that kit with you in case
21:25
Speaker 2: something happened to you and you got her, you want
21:27
Speaker 2: to be able to communicate with somebody. The fact that
21:29
Speaker 2: she had financial problems is actually very very intriguing. It's
21:33
Speaker 2: been speculated that maybe, okay, she didn't have access to
21:36
Speaker 2: you high level information, but I'm just speculating here, going
21:41
Speaker 2: out on a branch. If you were an adversarial intelligence service,
21:44
Speaker 2: often people who have financial problems, even if they're what
21:47
Speaker 2: you might call low hanging fruit, especially administrative positions. They
21:51
Speaker 2: could give you low level information, but that it leads
21:53
Speaker 2: to you know, who's coming in out of the lab,
21:55
Speaker 2: who's working there, and all these types of things, so
21:58
Speaker 2: that as an adversarial intelligence office, you can build up
22:00
Speaker 2: these kind of pictures. Well, I mean that would be
22:02
Speaker 2: a prime interest to for example, the Department of Energies
22:05
Speaker 2: offices intelligence and count intelligence because you would be worried that,
22:08
Speaker 2: you know, somebody has effectively a lever that hostile intelligence
22:12
Speaker 2: service where they're all hostile, but an adversarial intelligence service
22:15
Speaker 2: could actually use to try and gain access, to gain
22:17
Speaker 2: further access, And that's a very common thing that comes up.
22:20
Speaker 2: I mean, when you do your vetting, it's about your reliability,
22:23
Speaker 2: your loyalty, and also you know, do you have drug problems,
22:25
Speaker 2: do you have marital problems? Have you stepped out on
22:28
Speaker 2: your husband or your spouse, do you have financial problems?
22:30
Speaker 2: All these kind of things are exactly what account intelligence
22:34
Speaker 2: investigator would take into account. I think Joseph was bang
22:38
Speaker 2: on especially about Oh, he's obviously got expertise in the area,
22:41
Speaker 2: but the ingress and egress roots that want to know
22:43
Speaker 2: more about those with the terrain like you know, easy,
22:46
Speaker 2: go slow, go hard go. If how did she get
22:51
Speaker 2: in and if it wasn't her who actually put herself there,
22:55
Speaker 2: was there access for you know, like a quad bike
22:57
Speaker 2: or a horse or you know, where's the nearest that
23:00
Speaker 2: you could park a vehicle effectively to get into those areas?
23:04
Speaker 2: Also as well, i'd want to know, you know, that
23:06
Speaker 2: you have to know more about the circumstances death. Is
23:08
Speaker 2: it a suicide or is it a murder that staged
23:11
Speaker 2: to look like a suicide. I think that's, you know,
23:13
Speaker 2: that's a big question that we'd want to know. The
23:15
Speaker 2: other thing I want to know as well about the
23:17
Speaker 2: weapon is if it were if it Weren't'm speculating here,
23:21
Speaker 2: an extraneous weapon, are not one that was associated with
23:24
Speaker 2: her or her family, or something that she could have
23:27
Speaker 2: got her hands on easily, or that somebody could have
23:29
Speaker 2: got their hands on and staged with the body. I'd
23:32
Speaker 2: want to know if the barrel had been cleaned before firing,
23:35
Speaker 2: if there were, say, excessive oil residue on the body,
23:38
Speaker 2: because and again I'm speculating here, but professional operators, former
23:42
Speaker 2: military people, and military people they always tend to clean
23:45
Speaker 2: the barrel before firing. It's just like a habit, because
23:48
Speaker 2: you don't want to have smoke, excess smoke come out
23:50
Speaker 2: of the barrel, which could give your position away. Okay,
23:52
Speaker 2: that's like a professional point. So that's what i'd want
23:55
Speaker 2: to know. But I find obviously I don't have access
23:57
Speaker 2: to the forensics, and I don't have access to you
23:59
Speaker 2: know what the FBI and the Department of Energy count
24:02
Speaker 2: intelligence people are saying about the wider picture surrounding her,
24:05
Speaker 2: so that those are all key things. So beyond that,
24:08
Speaker 2: it's really speculation for me.
24:15
Speaker 1: Back to lou Alessando joining US former US Army counter
24:19
Speaker 1: intelligence special agent, former director Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.
24:27
Speaker 1: You have refused in the past to give me the
24:31
Speaker 1: name Kevin Childress, but I found it elsewhere. Kevin Childress,
24:38
Speaker 1: and correct me if I am wrong. Was set to
24:41
Speaker 1: have a meeting describing very very sensitive scientific information. He
24:51
Speaker 1: was going to Congress and talking about what was in
24:54
Speaker 1: the UAP files, and then suddenly he's found dead on
24:59
Speaker 1: a sofa and there was never an autopsy. What can
25:06
Speaker 1: you tell me about Kevin Childress other than he was brilliant.
25:11
Speaker 1: That much I already know.
25:13
Speaker 3: Sure, Well, Nancy, thank you very much for having me
25:15
Speaker 3: certainly an honor and privilege. You're absolutely correct. Kevin Childress
25:20
Speaker 3: was a senior special Agent with the Department of Energy,
25:24
Speaker 3: and as you continue to look at some of these
25:26
Speaker 3: other cases, there are definitely ties. When you're talking about
25:28
Speaker 3: a national laboratory, they're always tied with the Department of Energy,
25:33
Speaker 3: and so in this particular case, Special Agent Kevin Childress
25:36
Speaker 3: was a special Agent in charge. He was there at
25:39
Speaker 3: headquarters with the Department of Energy, and he had reached
25:42
Speaker 3: out to me. This is right after I left the Pentagon,
25:44
Speaker 3: and he was very concerned. He said, Look, the Department
25:47
Speaker 3: of Energy has a significant role in the UAP business,
25:51
Speaker 3: and I'm pretty upset by what I have access to.
25:54
Speaker 3: And now that I've raised it through my chain of command,
25:57
Speaker 3: I feel that the Department of Energy is is trying
26:01
Speaker 3: to keep me quiet. So I'm worried about that. But
26:04
Speaker 3: there is there's a lot of information, this is what
26:06
Speaker 3: he's saying, that I have access to, and I would
26:08
Speaker 3: love a chance to talk to somebody in Congress about it.
26:12
Speaker 3: So I was in the process of arranging a meeting
26:15
Speaker 3: between Special Agent Kevin Childres and some members of Congress
26:20
Speaker 3: back in the twenty twenty twenty one time frame, and
26:26
Speaker 3: to spare the you know, the family there that I
26:29
Speaker 3: want to be cognizant of their privacy. Let's just say
26:32
Speaker 3: his spouse is extremely well trained in the medical field.
26:36
Speaker 3: And I think it was a surprise to everybody. He
26:40
Speaker 3: had left. She had left for work that morning, he
26:43
Speaker 3: seemed fine. She came home that evening and he was
26:46
Speaker 3: dead on the sofa. And clearly I would had some
26:51
Speaker 3: some surprise as well when I heard this news. But
26:54
Speaker 3: if you look at his obituary, which I find very interesting,
26:57
Speaker 3: specifically one of the last paragraphs that talks about his
27:01
Speaker 3: his his interest in the UAP topic, and that's actually
27:05
Speaker 3: what was the basis for our conversation we were going
27:08
Speaker 3: to have in Congress. I was going to bring him
27:10
Speaker 3: there as a whistleblower and allow him to speak his peace.
27:12
Speaker 1: Can we identify that place unidentified aerial phenomena, that's what
27:17
Speaker 1: we're talking about UAP.
27:21
Speaker 3: It sounds very but the reality is that our government
27:26
Speaker 3: has spent a lot of time, a lot of resources
27:28
Speaker 3: looking into into the topic of UAP, or what was
27:31
Speaker 3: known in the vernacular as UFOs in the past. And
27:35
Speaker 3: of course people like to snicker a giggle about it,
27:37
Speaker 3: but the reality is we took it very seriously and
27:39
Speaker 3: we spent a lot of money, tax payer money looking
27:42
Speaker 3: into this because we had in some cases almost mid
27:44
Speaker 3: air collisions between a UAP or a UFO if you
27:48
Speaker 3: want to call it that, and and military aircraft. We
27:52
Speaker 3: also saw these things over controlled US airspace, over sensitive
27:56
Speaker 3: military installations, over our nuclear facilities. And this is why
28:00
Speaker 3: of Energy is so important here, because the nuclear tie
28:03
Speaker 3: is it may be actually something that we need to
28:06
Speaker 3: look at. All these scientists that have disappeared.
28:08
Speaker 1: In nuclear tie. Hold on, you know what. Pardon the pond,
28:13
Speaker 1: but your light speed ahead of us regular people, what
28:16
Speaker 1: do you mean the nuclear tie.
28:19
Speaker 3: So one of the things that we noticed while in
28:23
Speaker 3: the Pentagon running the UFO program was that these UAP
28:27
Speaker 3: or these UFOs have an interest in our nuclear equities,
28:31
Speaker 3: whether it's nuclear propulsion, nuclear power, and nuclear weapons systems.
28:35
Speaker 3: And what a lot of people don't know is that
28:37
Speaker 3: the Department of Energy plays a significant role when anything
28:41
Speaker 3: that is that is considered radioactive or has a certain yield,
28:45
Speaker 3: Department of Energy has primacy. And so in this particular case,
28:49
Speaker 3: you have a lot of scientists at large, not just
28:52
Speaker 3: Kevin Chilters, who was a special agent that were looking
28:56
Speaker 3: that we're working at these national laboratories under the Department
28:58
Speaker 3: of Energy cognizance and a lot of the work that
29:01
Speaker 3: they were doing could be related to some sort of
29:03
Speaker 3: Department of Energy project. Now, I want to be very
29:06
Speaker 3: careful here because certainly I don't want to talk about
29:09
Speaker 3: anything that's classified. But you know, as one of your
29:14
Speaker 3: participants here mentioned, these individuals had security clearances, in some
29:17
Speaker 3: cases top secret sci security clearances as haaacats, and that's
29:22
Speaker 3: the reason why you have FBI now involvement in investigating
29:25
Speaker 3: these what we call national level cases. But there are
29:29
Speaker 3: other individuals, and I'm sure our friend here, Frank Milburn
29:34
Speaker 3: can tell you Amy Eskridge was no different. I had
29:38
Speaker 3: the opportunity to speak with her in person and twenty
29:40
Speaker 3: eighteen timeframe in the Huntsville, Alabama area Redstone Missile Arsenal,
29:45
Speaker 3: where she had indicated to me that she was working
29:49
Speaker 3: on an anti gravitic technology her and her father, and
29:53
Speaker 3: that that research was being suppressed. And I know this
29:56
Speaker 3: sounds very conspiratorial, but I was there for the meeting
29:59
Speaker 3: was actually over dinner, and all I'm telling you is
30:02
Speaker 3: what she told me. And she said that they're being
30:04
Speaker 3: harassed and that she's very, very afraid that there are
30:08
Speaker 3: certain elements that are trying to quote unquote shut them down.
30:12
Speaker 3: And yeah, she she told me that verbatim, and then,
30:16
Speaker 3: of course, unfortunately she wound up dying passing away a
30:22
Speaker 3: General mcaslym the same thing. A lot of people don't realize.
30:24
Speaker 3: Neil McCaslin, who we talked about AFIL Air Force Research
30:27
Speaker 3: Laboratory and some of these other national laboratories. He was
30:32
Speaker 3: a lynchpin to a lot of the military's black projects. Basically,
30:36
Speaker 3: they're working on technologies that in theory, we won't see
30:39
Speaker 3: for another fifty years. And mcaslm. What a lot of
30:42
Speaker 3: people don't know is that he was also an advisor
30:45
Speaker 3: to one of my colleagues, Tom DeLong. Tom DeLong is
30:48
Speaker 3: the former frontman current frontman I Think Again for the
30:52
Speaker 3: Blink one two rock band and as crazy as sounds.
30:56
Speaker 3: Tom had an interest in the UAP topic, UFO topic,
31:00
Speaker 3: and General mcasly Neil McCaslin I know as a fact
31:02
Speaker 3: because I worked with Tom was one of his advisors
31:07
Speaker 3: on the UFO topic, and so I want to be
31:09
Speaker 3: very careful here not to sound conspiratorial or draw any
31:12
Speaker 3: lines that aren't there. But a lot of these individuals
31:16
Speaker 3: that are on this list actually had some sort of
31:19
Speaker 3: involvement in either advanced propulsion, advanced types of materials and alloys,
31:25
Speaker 3: or specifically UAP research.
31:29
Speaker 1: Question to you, what was the cause of Kevin Childer's death.
31:35
Speaker 3: He supposedly died from COVID complications, but what I spoke
31:39
Speaker 3: to him earlier, he seemed fine. And according to other
31:42
Speaker 3: witnesses who I won't name here, who saw him that
31:45
Speaker 3: very morning, said he seemed fine.
31:49
Speaker 1: Did his wife know he had COVID?
31:54
Speaker 3: You know, I'd let her answer that instead of me. Again,
31:58
Speaker 3: I'm very cautious not to overstep my bound I want
32:01
Speaker 3: to be very careful of people's privacy, but I would suspect, you.
32:06
Speaker 1: Know, if an autopsy was ever performed.
32:11
Speaker 3: I don't know that. I don't know that, but I
32:13
Speaker 3: know when he talked to me, he had told me, specifically,
32:15
Speaker 3: like Amy Scridge, that he was very afraid that there
32:19
Speaker 3: were reprisals against him at the Department of Energy, that
32:22
Speaker 3: they tried to squeeze him out, they tried to launch
32:24
Speaker 3: fake investigations and tried to discredit him, and something that
32:28
Speaker 3: I'm personally keenly aware of because when I left the
32:30
Speaker 3: Pentagon as well and decided to go public, they the
32:33
Speaker 3: same thing happened to me and some of my colleagues
32:35
Speaker 3: who decided to come out and talk about this topic
32:38
Speaker 3: to the American people. So I don't doubt the fact
32:42
Speaker 3: that he was, in some way ship orformed, being intimidated
32:46
Speaker 3: and they were trying to suppress his communications. When I
32:50
Speaker 3: say they, I don't know who they are. I don't
32:52
Speaker 3: know if it was government sponsored or if it was
32:56
Speaker 3: someone else, But I can tell you in my conversations
32:59
Speaker 3: with him, and of course Amy es Bridge and then
33:02
Speaker 3: later on with Neil McCaslin, all of these individuals had
33:06
Speaker 3: a very keen interest in the UFO topic, and that
33:09
Speaker 3: for me is obviously very concerning.
33:12
Speaker 1: Died of COVID, yet no one seems to be able
33:15
Speaker 1: to confirm he had COVID, and no coeod be cause
33:20
Speaker 1: of death is listed in the obituary. Kevin Childress, who
33:26
Speaker 1: was concerned that he was being treated as a whistleblower
33:33
Speaker 1: and was set to talk to a member of Congress,
33:37
Speaker 1: then dies on the sofa, no cod joining me now
33:51
Speaker 1: is lou Elizondo. Former US Army counter intelligence special agent,
33:57
Speaker 1: former employee Office Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, former Director
34:02
Speaker 1: of Advance Aerospace Threat Identification Program, and UFO whistleblower. Wow,
34:11
Speaker 1: mister Alizondo, I want to thank you for being with
34:13
Speaker 1: us tonight. Also very curious about Matthew Sullivan aka Quake.
34:22
Speaker 1: Is it true or do you know whether an autopsy
34:27
Speaker 1: was ever ever performed on Sullivan and what was said
34:32
Speaker 1: to be his cause of death.
34:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, So rather than share what I don't know, let
34:37
Speaker 3: me share you with you what I do know. He
34:39
Speaker 3: was an Air Force intelligence officer. He was a colleague
34:43
Speaker 3: of one of my colleagues at the time, Dave Groosch.
34:45
Speaker 3: Dave Grush and I had worked at US Space Force together,
34:49
Speaker 3: and Sullivan wanted to come forward and have a conversation
34:53
Speaker 3: with certain members of Congress about the Air Force's involvement
34:57
Speaker 3: in the UFO program, and he will was slated within
35:00
Speaker 3: I think twenty four hours. He had gone to Washington,
35:03
Speaker 3: d C. And was in a hotel from my understanding,
35:05
Speaker 3: and was going to have a conversation with some members
35:08
Speaker 3: of Congress. Any skiff, a skiff is a sensitive compartment
35:11
Speaker 3: and information facility. So it's kind of like a think
35:13
Speaker 3: of a secret vault where you can have conversations at
35:16
Speaker 3: the classified level. And the day before he was supposed
35:20
Speaker 3: to have a conversation, or two days before, he wound
35:24
Speaker 3: up being found dead, I knew. What I do know
35:28
Speaker 3: is that there was a while before the medical examiner
35:31
Speaker 3: even released a report. It kept getting delayed and delayed
35:34
Speaker 3: and delayed. I don't know the reason why it was delayed,
35:36
Speaker 3: but I do know that members of Congress were very
35:38
Speaker 3: concerned the fact that this individual was supposed to testify
35:42
Speaker 3: and wound up dead. And by the way, this wasn't
35:44
Speaker 3: the only one. There was another individual whose name I
35:48
Speaker 3: won't mention because it hasn't been made public yet, but
35:50
Speaker 3: he was an individual, an engineer, who was allegedly tied
35:55
Speaker 3: to the exploitation of recovered UFO material. He was a
36:02
Speaker 3: He was talking to one of my colleagues, and he
36:04
Speaker 3: was he was going to go talk to Congress about
36:08
Speaker 3: his knowledge about about legacy US government legacy UFO efforts.
36:13
Speaker 3: And within I think a week or so before he
36:16
Speaker 3: was supposed to go to Washington, d C. He wound
36:19
Speaker 3: up dying. And the cause of death I don't know,
36:23
Speaker 3: but one of my colleagues was following it very closely
36:26
Speaker 3: and was concerned enough to tell me, hey, look, you know,
36:29
Speaker 3: people are starting to disappear. You may want to be
36:31
Speaker 3: very careful. So there does seem to be a very
36:35
Speaker 3: interesting you can call it a coincidence. But in my
36:38
Speaker 3: line of work as a former intelligence officer, you know,
36:40
Speaker 3: when things happen once, it's an anomaly. When things happened twice,
36:44
Speaker 3: you could chalk it up as a coincidence. But when
36:45
Speaker 3: it happens three times, now you have a trend. Now
36:49
Speaker 3: you have a connection there, and there does seem to
36:52
Speaker 3: be some very interesting connection here. Now I also have
36:55
Speaker 3: to preface so you know, as a former intelligence officer myself,
36:59
Speaker 3: it is not as an common as you might think
37:01
Speaker 3: that foreign countries will sometimes take very extreme measures to
37:08
Speaker 3: keep information quiet. We're now beginning to see that there
37:12
Speaker 3: are several scientists now in China that are missing and
37:17
Speaker 3: there may be reasons for that, and same with Russia.
37:20
Speaker 3: So we need to do a lot of work on this.
37:23
Speaker 3: But you know, if I may Nancy digress for just
37:25
Speaker 3: one moment, because you had a very interesting picture there
37:27
Speaker 3: of a vehicle that was allegedly hit by a boulder,
37:31
Speaker 3: and this was the scientists, female scientists who went up
37:35
Speaker 3: and wound up disappearing. And yeah, let's take a look
37:41
Speaker 3: at this photo for example, just for a moment. What
37:43
Speaker 3: I find very interesting as a former special agent myself,
37:47
Speaker 3: is that if a boulder hit this, I don't see
37:49
Speaker 3: any real damage to the top of the vehicle. What
37:52
Speaker 3: I see is damage into the back of the window
37:55
Speaker 3: as if someone tried to do some sort of smash
37:57
Speaker 3: and grab, and maybe some minor damage below that on
38:00
Speaker 3: the trunk area. But what I don't see as anything
38:04
Speaker 3: that looks like a large boulder had come raining down
38:07
Speaker 3: from a cliff and smashed the back part of the
38:10
Speaker 3: vehicle there. And now maybe they were able to recover
38:13
Speaker 3: a rock or something, but that really does not look
38:16
Speaker 3: consistent to me. As a giant bowler coming down from
38:20
Speaker 3: a hill and smashing the vehicle, one would expect to
38:23
Speaker 3: have much much more damage to that vehicle. If that
38:26
Speaker 3: was a case, That.
38:27
Speaker 1: Is an incredible observation. It's right under our noses, but
38:31
Speaker 1: we didn't see it. That's why you are the former
38:33
Speaker 1: US Army counter intelligence special agent. I want to defend
38:38
Speaker 1: Matthew Sullivan because I feel that he, along with Amy Eskridge,
38:43
Speaker 1: along with Ingrid and others, is being painted in a
38:50
Speaker 1: let me just say a bad light. Matthew Sullivan earned
38:55
Speaker 1: a Bronze Star for valor in operation and during Freedom.
38:59
Speaker 1: He worked for the Air First Intelligence Agency, the National
39:02
Speaker 1: Air and Space Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency. You know,
39:08
Speaker 1: it was stated by Major General David Abba that Sullivan
39:14
Speaker 1: held the quote burden A few, a select few in
39:18
Speaker 1: this nation have of truly understanding what is going on
39:24
Speaker 1: in the field of jet propulsion, anti gravity UFO information.
39:35
Speaker 1: He had the highest recommendations. Yet, let me understand how
39:40
Speaker 1: Matthew died. Matthew died just before he was set to
39:44
Speaker 1: speak to members of Congress alone in a hotel room.
39:47
Speaker 1: To you, Dave, matt Crime Stories investigative reporter, What were
39:54
Speaker 1: the circumstances surrounding his death? What did they say he
39:57
Speaker 1: had ingested?
39:59
Speaker 4: Nancy said that this Air Force veteran Bronze Star recipient,
40:04
Speaker 4: Matthew James Sullivan, at the age of thirty nine, died
40:08
Speaker 4: from a lethal mix of alcohol, al praslam, cycloe, benzapren.
40:15
Speaker 4: We've got alcohol, xanax a muscle relaxer.
40:18
Speaker 5: And a bed wedding. That is the medication.
40:22
Speaker 4: That's what it is reported. For children, Yes, for children, Yes.
40:26
Speaker 4: And Nancy, one thing to go back very quickly on
40:29
Speaker 4: Matthew Sullivan.
40:30
Speaker 1: No autopsy.
40:31
Speaker 5: None. Representative Eric Berlison, Nancy.
40:34
Speaker 4: He's a Congressman from Missouri who serves on a House
40:36
Speaker 4: Oversight Committee task force that on the declassification of federal secrets.
40:42
Speaker 5: They were so shocked.
40:43
Speaker 4: In his office at the death of Matthew Sullivan that
40:45
Speaker 4: Congressman Burlison reached out to the FBI and asked for
40:50
Speaker 4: them to do an investigation.
40:51
Speaker 5: Due to the timing of Sullivan's death.
40:57
Speaker 1: Sullivan was part of a legacy UFO program, the US
41:01
Speaker 1: government Crash Retrieval Program. He was part of the US
41:09
Speaker 1: government's crash retrieval program. Lou Alizondo, what is that the
41:16
Speaker 1: crash retrieval program?
41:20
Speaker 3: Well, well, first of all, Nancy is a great question,
41:22
Speaker 3: and it's a question that I'm not allowed to answer.
41:26
Speaker 3: Let me just say this, I still maintain a security
41:29
Speaker 3: clearance with the United States government, and there are certain
41:33
Speaker 3: prohibitions that I have been told and I've had to
41:36
Speaker 3: literally sign my name on a piece of paper saying
41:39
Speaker 3: that I would not discuss details about certain topics XYZ.
41:45
Speaker 3: The notion of crash retrievals, unfortunately, is one of them.
41:48
Speaker 3: It is still considered very sensitive in the US government,
41:51
Speaker 3: and I, unfortunately, you know, confirm or deny or elaborate
41:55
Speaker 3: very much at all on that topic. But what I
41:58
Speaker 3: can say is what you're saying is absolutely what was
42:01
Speaker 3: communicated as well to Congress that mister Sullivan here had
42:05
Speaker 3: some sort of affiliation with legacy efforts and potentially reverse engineering.
42:17
Speaker 1: Now correct me if I'm wrong, Frank. First of all,
42:20
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us tonight. But Amy Escridge, brilliant scientist,
42:26
Speaker 1: was found with allegedly a self inflicted gunshot wound to
42:31
Speaker 1: the head Huntsville, Alabama, near the NASA Space Station, which
42:37
Speaker 1: is not just in Florida, but also in Huntsville. She
42:43
Speaker 1: texted with you some very disturbing information. Now to my understanding,
42:51
Speaker 1: of course, I'm just a trial lawyer. She was studying
42:55
Speaker 1: anti gravity, Is that correct? Anti gravity propose?
43:01
Speaker 2: She was interested, yes, in anti gravity. She was interested
43:04
Speaker 2: in free energy, which is the extraction of energy from
43:06
Speaker 2: the ether and potentially unlimited amounts which would obviously change
43:09
Speaker 2: the whole way. You know that we that we have
43:11
Speaker 2: and produce energy on Earth and potentially would help you know,
43:15
Speaker 2: every poor country in the world, but it could also
43:18
Speaker 2: be very dangerous to use as a weapon. What she
43:20
Speaker 2: was actually used working on when she was attacked with
43:23
Speaker 2: the directed energy weapon that's been heavily doctored, that was
43:27
Speaker 2: especially documented with videos, testimony and other witness there. She
43:31
Speaker 2: was actually working for Homeland Security on a project which
43:34
Speaker 2: would defend US subways across the continental United States from chemical,
43:38
Speaker 2: bio and radiological attack. So, you know, across the board,
43:43
Speaker 2: she had a very interesting portfolio of things that she
43:45
Speaker 2: was interested in and working on. But you know, she
43:47
Speaker 2: was an American pet Circle mat.
43:49
Speaker 1: He just said, Frank Milburn that she was working with
43:52
Speaker 1: Homeland Security on methods to protect public transport in the US.
43:59
Speaker 1: Could you expand on.
44:00
Speaker 2: That place, Yes, certainly, she and a colleague they were approached.
44:05
Speaker 2: I actually went to sat in on a couple of
44:06
Speaker 2: meetings with people senior members from Homeland Security and from
44:11
Speaker 2: another agency that I'm not going to mention. Amy was there.
44:15
Speaker 2: A contact of mine was there who was ex American
44:17
Speaker 2: Special Operations, and there was a and one of her
44:21
Speaker 2: co workers was there, and they were basically discussing with
44:24
Speaker 2: Homo security everything from directed energy weapon attacks. But the
44:27
Speaker 2: specific project that they were working on was to design
44:30
Speaker 2: a system whereby all the subways across the continental United
44:34
Speaker 2: States could be protected from a biological, chemical, and radiological
44:38
Speaker 2: attack a detection system effectively.
44:41
Speaker 1: Mister Meilburn joining us former British intelligence officer, and the
44:45
Speaker 1: reason I wanted you to tell us a little bit
44:48
Speaker 1: more about her project she was working on with Homeland
44:51
Speaker 1: Security is that many people, many naysayers, are suggesting that
44:55
Speaker 1: she was somehow had mental or emotional problems. I find
44:59
Speaker 1: that very difficult to believe, as a former fed myself,
45:03
Speaker 1: working for the government my entire legal career, that Homeland
45:07
Speaker 1: Security would enlist the aid of any scientist that had
45:11
Speaker 1: a mental impairment. I find that very, if not impossible,
45:16
Speaker 1: difficult to believe. Now, Amy thirty four years old, had
45:21
Speaker 1: also been researching, as I first mentioned, anti gravity advanced
45:25
Speaker 1: technology with anti gravity propulsion. And what is interesting about
45:31
Speaker 1: that to me is anti gravity propulsion. When we think
45:36
Speaker 1: of aircraft of any type bit a plane, a helicopter,
45:40
Speaker 1: or a rocket.
45:41
Speaker 8: We.
45:43
Speaker 1: Are within the framework of our known laws of gravity.
45:46
Speaker 1: But anti gravity jet propulsion would mean that the aircraft
45:51
Speaker 1: could go up down, side to side and at rapid
45:54
Speaker 1: rates of speed, unlike anything we have ever seen. Isn't
45:58
Speaker 1: that true?
46:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. And I mean if you're looking now,
46:01
Speaker 2: you know we're looking. The next big step for mankind
46:04
Speaker 2: is the colonization of space effectively and exploiting space's mineral
46:09
Speaker 2: resources and also exploiting space strategically. I mean, you know,
46:12
Speaker 2: they've just gone to the moon attomus and they're looking
46:15
Speaker 2: for their have a base and then be able to
46:16
Speaker 2: jump to Mars. So if you had this anti gravity
46:19
Speaker 2: technology and also free energy potentially you know, to as
46:23
Speaker 2: a fuel system for other propulsion, you'd be streets ahead
46:27
Speaker 2: of anybody using or streets ahead, you'd be light years
46:30
Speaker 2: ahead of anybody using traditional rocketry technology.
46:34
Speaker 1: Also, she was working with her father, doctor Estridge. They
46:38
Speaker 1: had founded a research institute together on something called t
46:42
Speaker 1: R three B t R three B, which is a
46:46
Speaker 1: triangular type of aircraft that she thought would be suited
46:52
Speaker 1: to that would be compatible with her anti gravity jet propulsion. Now,
46:57
Speaker 1: this is very hard for most of us to take in.
47:00
Speaker 1: Most of us are not literally rocket scientists like Amy
47:04
Speaker 1: and her cohorts, I want to talk to you about
47:08
Speaker 1: the texts that she sent you just before her death.
47:14
Speaker 1: What did she say?
47:17
Speaker 2: Well that the immediate text, sort of in the month
47:19
Speaker 2: before her death was you know, if I committed suicide,
47:21
Speaker 2: I didn't. If you hear that, if I overdosed, I didn't.
47:24
Speaker 2: If you hear that I killed myself or anybody else,
47:26
Speaker 2: I didn't. And this was text to myself. There were
47:29
Speaker 2: other texts to other people, you know, co workers. I
47:32
Speaker 2: just got a message actually, you know, the day before
47:34
Speaker 2: yesterday from somebody i'd been in contact with, a very
47:36
Speaker 2: close friend of Amy who was also subject to attacks,
47:39
Speaker 2: who just said, like, no way, did she commit suicide?
47:41
Speaker 2: And you know, well done for putting out there. They
47:43
Speaker 2: don't want to put it out there because they've been
47:44
Speaker 2: attacked and they have, you know, they have things to protect.
47:49
Speaker 2: So this was over the course of the year, and
47:51
Speaker 2: then she's her name being attacked.
47:54
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, who is they? Who do you think they
47:58
Speaker 1: I'm not in disagreement. I am not a disagreement because
48:02
Speaker 1: the best way to cover up homicide is to make
48:06
Speaker 1: it look like a suicide. And I have personally investigated
48:10
Speaker 1: and prosecuted cases where the victim was portrayed as mentally
48:15
Speaker 1: imbalanced having committed suicide, when in fact they were the
48:18
Speaker 1: victim of a homicide. When you say they have a
48:22
Speaker 1: reason to kill her, I assume you could be talking
48:25
Speaker 1: about a foreign entity that wants to extract, use, and
48:30
Speaker 1: implement her work. It could be corporate espionage, someone that
48:36
Speaker 1: wants that technology, those ideas to make money off of it.
48:41
Speaker 1: It could be a jealous coworker. I don't know what
48:44
Speaker 1: it is. But when you say they had reason to
48:47
Speaker 1: kill her, who, in your mind is they?
48:50
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you somebody. Initially I looked at her,
48:53
Speaker 2: you know, I was looking thinking, you know, like the grou,
48:55
Speaker 2: Russian military intelligence or the Chinese. But you have to understand,
49:00
Speaker 2: this is an actor who over actors over a period
49:03
Speaker 2: of like maybe three years or even more, were has
49:06
Speaker 2: harassing her over a period of time. Vehicle surveillance, directed
49:10
Speaker 2: energy weapon attacks, social engineering, break ins, hacking. That's a
49:14
Speaker 2: lot of movie.
49:15
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, Frank, you got me drinking out
49:18
Speaker 1: of the fire hydrant. That's too much, too fast. Okay.
49:21
Speaker 1: You mentioned the potential of Russian military of Chinese intelligence,
49:27
Speaker 1: and I don't know why that seems so hard to believe.
49:31
Speaker 1: Difficult to believe. How many people do Russian intelligence have
49:36
Speaker 1: to throw out a window or poison with perfume. We
49:40
Speaker 1: hear about it all the time. This type of espionage
49:46
Speaker 1: happens all the time right under our noses, so it
49:50
Speaker 1: is not difficult to believe it could be happening here.
49:53
Speaker 1: But you mentioned being harassed, harassed, and also you mentioned
50:00
Speaker 1: and a directed power hit on her body from which
50:04
Speaker 1: she allegedly sustained multiple bruises and showed them two people.
50:08
Speaker 1: And when we're talking a bit about that, is it
50:11
Speaker 1: something I can two for instance, a Havana syndrome.
50:14
Speaker 2: This wasn't alleged, it's all documented. And I actually showed,
50:18
Speaker 2: you know, the images of her to a doctor friend
50:21
Speaker 2: of Maya and she said, yeah, those are consistent, you
50:23
Speaker 2: know with the directed energy microwave weapons. Havana syndrome is
50:26
Speaker 2: mostly acoustic, but these were the directed energy microwave weapons
50:30
Speaker 2: that literally, you know, fry your body, fry your central
50:33
Speaker 2: nervous system, fry your spine, give you all kinds of
50:35
Speaker 2: gas and test and promise. But the point that I
50:37
Speaker 2: was coming to you after before was that this was
50:40
Speaker 2: an actor which had a lot of resources on the
50:43
Speaker 2: ground and that managed to pass for a long, long
50:45
Speaker 2: period of time basically unimpeded, and that may or may
50:48
Speaker 2: not have been able to suborn or subvert law enforcement
50:52
Speaker 2: and authorities at local, state, and federal level. Okay, so
50:56
Speaker 2: they avoided counterintelligent scrutiny. When Amy went to talk to
51:00
Speaker 2: the FBI, she said, thanks Frank for sending this up
51:02
Speaker 2: through your friend. She talked to the FBI for three months,
51:06
Speaker 2: and then the FBI turned around and said, we don't
51:08
Speaker 2: have jurisdiction on this case to cover this case. We'll
51:11
Speaker 2: hang on there.
51:11
Speaker 1: So apparently they are now getting involved. We just showed
51:15
Speaker 1: a photo of Eskridge's red hands. What is that?
51:22
Speaker 2: That was when she was working literally on that project
51:24
Speaker 2: for Homeland Security and she was I think about six
51:28
Speaker 2: stories up. But they got hit with a directed energy
51:30
Speaker 2: weapon and she got burnt on her hands, not on
51:34
Speaker 2: her face. I believe it was on her hands. So
51:35
Speaker 2: something directed specifically at her hands. And there's another scientist
51:39
Speaker 2: that actually sent you the videos. There's another scientist with
51:41
Speaker 2: her in the background and you can hear him say
51:43
Speaker 2: it's a directed energy weapon, a microwave directed energy weapon.
51:47
Speaker 2: So there's two witnesses there, two scientists who are expert
51:50
Speaker 2: witnesses and able to describe exactly what is happening to them.
51:53
Speaker 1: What is that? See from many of us that sounds
51:56
Speaker 1: like a futuristic movie plot, but it's not. It's in
52:00
Speaker 1: the here and now directed energy attack. What is it?
52:04
Speaker 2: Well, there's her egg gap computer there, and then she's
52:07
Speaker 2: basically been pounded with microwave weapons. She's saying in this case,
52:10
Speaker 2: it's basically trying to build a three dimensional picture of
52:13
Speaker 2: her hands to see what she's siping on because she's
52:16
Speaker 2: removed the Wi Fi card from the computer so that
52:19
Speaker 2: it can't be hacked. Because she suffered so many hacking attempts.
52:21
Speaker 2: I mean literally every other day, she was doing a
52:23
Speaker 2: completely clean install on all her computers on her firms.
52:27
Speaker 1: What was it, Frank Milburn that was so sensitive that
52:32
Speaker 1: she was working on?
52:35
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it could be you know you either
52:38
Speaker 2: she was. She had all this harassment that was leading
52:40
Speaker 2: up to it. So I presume that was I assessed
52:42
Speaker 2: as wanting to her to desist from the work. Okay,
52:45
Speaker 2: she was never offered a job. Nobody ever said here's
52:47
Speaker 2: some money, come and work for us. It's like they
52:49
Speaker 2: wanted her to desist from it, and then they did
52:52
Speaker 2: these microwave energy weapons attack, knowing that would debilitate her
52:55
Speaker 2: so that she'd be unable to continue with her work slowly,
52:58
Speaker 2: and then eventually, because she too stubborn, she ended up dying. Now,
53:03
Speaker 2: I can't say, hand on my heart that that was murder,
53:05
Speaker 2: when I can say it was very, very suspicious. And
53:07
Speaker 2: you will say a lot of people saying, you know,
53:09
Speaker 2: she was off her meds, she was crazy, she was
53:10
Speaker 2: this or that. I spoke to her every day. She
53:12
Speaker 2: caught me four hours before she died and she said
53:14
Speaker 2: that she was feeling fine. Okay. Now, did she have stress, yes,
53:18
Speaker 2: Did she have PTSD? Certainly? Did she have hyper vigilance certainly,
53:22
Speaker 2: because she was under constant attack the whole time and
53:24
Speaker 2: anybody normal would so. But she wasn't hallucinating, She wasn't delusional.
53:28
Speaker 2: You could see that every day. And you know she's
53:30
Speaker 2: going to work, she's on the car, in the car
53:33
Speaker 2: talking to me for half an hour. She gets to work,
53:34
Speaker 2: she's talking to me again from work with her coworkers.
53:37
Speaker 2: This is someone who is like you know, functional and
53:39
Speaker 2: working at a very high level scientifically, a highly intelligent woman.
53:44
Speaker 1: Question could you explain in very rudimentary terms what you
53:50
Speaker 1: mean by a directed energy attack? How does that work?
53:55
Speaker 2: Okay? Sure, So you have basically there was a Russian
53:58
Speaker 2: guy who was caught with one, I believe two years
54:00
Speaker 2: ago in the States and it was in congressional hearing
54:03
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. You can have like a pickup
54:05
Speaker 2: truck or a vehicle. You have like a sort of
54:08
Speaker 2: an emitter. It's like a it emits what's like you know,
54:12
Speaker 2: you know, club like microwaves like you get in a
54:13
Speaker 2: microwave oven, but in a very focused way. So then
54:17
Speaker 2: you have like a power source as well, which you
54:18
Speaker 2: can carry in the vehicle, and then you point out
54:20
Speaker 2: the window and it will go through dry walls as well,
54:24
Speaker 2: and you know it. Depending on the power of the emitter,
54:26
Speaker 2: it could be anywhere from like fifty meters to one
54:28
Speaker 2: hundred meters maybe more. I don't claim to be a
54:30
Speaker 2: technical expert on directed energy weapons, but you point it
54:32
Speaker 2: where you want it to go. Presumably before that you
54:35
Speaker 2: will have established a pattern of life, so you would
54:36
Speaker 2: know roughly where. Okay, So at nine o'clock she goes
54:39
Speaker 2: down to her laboratory or whatever, and then you'd set
54:42
Speaker 2: up the directed energy your weapon emitter in your vehicle,
54:44
Speaker 2: and wait for her to be in a specific point
54:46
Speaker 2: in space and time and then hit zapp.
54:49
Speaker 1: Frank, why are you speaking out?
54:56
Speaker 2: Because she trusted me too, and it was what she wanted.
55:00
Speaker 2: And I really, you know, I didn't want to at
55:02
Speaker 2: all because I know the upset that it brings to
55:04
Speaker 2: her family and her loved ones. But I've had support
55:07
Speaker 2: from her coworkers and her friends who are saying, you know,
55:09
Speaker 2: you need to do this. I was basically her dead
55:11
Speaker 2: lady's switch. She trusted me when I first met her
55:14
Speaker 2: and she first revealed who she was, and she started
55:16
Speaker 2: telling me about this. She said, because of your background,
55:18
Speaker 2: you will believe what I'm saying because you will understand
55:20
Speaker 2: the tradecraft. She goes, if I go to the cops,
55:22
Speaker 2: they will think I'm crazy because this harassment was designed
55:25
Speaker 2: in such a way, going through the panty draws and
55:28
Speaker 2: all the other things with design in such a way
55:29
Speaker 2: that if you went to the cops and said this
55:31
Speaker 2: is what's going on, they would think that she was crazy.
55:33
Speaker 2: She said, you will not think I'm crazy. And she goes,
55:35
Speaker 2: if anything happens to me, here is all the evidence,
55:37
Speaker 2: and I want you to get it out there.
55:41
Speaker 1: You know what. Let me go to Lauren Colin joining us.
55:45
Speaker 1: She is contributor to la magazine. She just wrote an
55:48
Speaker 1: incredible article dealing with this exact material. You can see
55:54
Speaker 1: her at Park Crime TV. Lauren, thank you for being
55:57
Speaker 1: with us tonight. What do you make of that?
56:00
Speaker 9: Yes, Melissa Cassias, she went missing in June of twenty
56:04
Speaker 9: twenty five, and everything about her disappearance is incredibly chilling.
56:10
Speaker 9: And now almost a year later, her remains have been found.
56:15
Speaker 9: And it was pretty shocking, at least to me, and
56:17
Speaker 9: I think to her family as well, because she was
56:19
Speaker 9: found six miles away from her home in Taos County,
56:23
Speaker 9: New Mexico, and this is the Carson National Forest area,
56:28
Speaker 9: and her family put out a statement on Facebook that
56:31
Speaker 9: they had already searched this area. Now, Melissa was an
56:35
Speaker 9: employee of Los Alamos National Laboratory, as is her husband,
56:41
Speaker 9: and she was an administrative assistant, so you know, she
56:45
Speaker 9: didn't have I think it was something like it was
56:48
Speaker 9: like a Level one security clearance. But I have been
56:51
Speaker 9: learning a lot about Melissa's home life and the I
56:58
Speaker 9: guess the strange things around her disappearance back in June
57:02
Speaker 9: of twenty twenty five. And I think it starts with
57:05
Speaker 9: the fact that, you know, it started off as a
57:08
Speaker 9: normal day. She drove her husband to work, which is
57:11
Speaker 9: an over an hour from where she lives, and she said,
57:17
Speaker 9: I have to turn back around. I forgot my badge,
57:19
Speaker 9: and she drops her husband off. She turns back around
57:21
Speaker 9: to go home. I guess at one point she maybe
57:24
Speaker 9: decides she's gonna work from home, or you know, she
57:27
Speaker 9: says something and just to get everybody off her back
57:30
Speaker 9: for a while. But the point is, she tells everybody
57:33
Speaker 9: in her life something different. Her husband, her daughter los alamos.
57:37
Speaker 9: So she ends up staying home. She goes and she
57:40
Speaker 9: brings her daughter lunch, which is the last time she
57:42
Speaker 9: sees her daughter. Her daughter works at a coffee shop,
57:45
Speaker 9: and at one point when people start to reach out
57:49
Speaker 9: to her like her daughter, the text go green and
57:52
Speaker 9: her daughter, Sierra goes home. Her keys are there, her
57:55
Speaker 9: purse is there.
57:56
Speaker 5: You know.
57:57
Speaker 9: She finds her two phones, and she had an old
57:59
Speaker 9: phone and then she she got a new phone. Both
58:01
Speaker 9: were set to factory reset. We later find out that
58:05
Speaker 9: these phones were set to factory reset at different times.
58:08
Speaker 9: One in the morning and one in the afternoon, which
58:11
Speaker 9: is obviously very strange. This is also very strange to
58:15
Speaker 9: me her toothbrush. Melissa's toothbrush and her thyroid medication were gone.
58:22
Speaker 9: So I take thyroid medication, I take synthroid, and you know,
58:26
Speaker 9: if I'm going to go somewhere, I take this medication
58:29
Speaker 9: with me so I can live a healthy life. So
58:32
Speaker 9: I found that to be really strange for someone who
58:36
Speaker 9: allegedly killed themselves. Why are you going to take this
58:39
Speaker 9: medication that you know kinda keeps you alive?
58:42
Speaker 1: I guess.
58:43
Speaker 9: So Melissa was last seen walking along New Mexico. I
58:49
Speaker 9: believe it's Highway five eighteen. She was spotted on camera
58:53
Speaker 9: at one point there was a vehicle, a blue pickup
58:57
Speaker 9: that was kind of hovering by her. Some unconfirmed reports
59:01
Speaker 9: say she got in that vehicle.
59:03
Speaker 2: Some say, you know she didn't.
59:04
Speaker 9: But literally, she was never seen again until May twenty eighth.
59:08
Speaker 9: Her remains were found by Carson National Forest. And it
59:12
Speaker 9: also just came out this was reported. This is not
59:15
Speaker 9: my original reporting. I have reached out to law enforcement.
59:18
Speaker 9: They have not confirmed this, so just keep that in mind.
59:21
Speaker 9: But a private detective working on the case told the
59:24
Speaker 9: Daily Mail. They that Melissa's body was slumped up against
59:29
Speaker 9: a tree, skeletonized with a handgun nearby, and her body
59:36
Speaker 9: was untouched by animals, which I think that is a
59:40
Speaker 9: little strange if you had been there for a while.
59:43
Speaker 9: One last thing and I'll stop talking. Crime Junkie reported
59:48
Speaker 9: this Crime Junkie podcast at the end of April. Very strange. Sierra,
59:52
Speaker 9: her daughter, was visited by four people at her work
59:56
Speaker 9: about two months after Melissa disappeared. They said they were
1:00:00
Speaker 9: friends of Melissa's, they knew Sierra's mother, and they drove
1:00:03
Speaker 9: from Colorado to New Mexico to give her a graduation
1:00:07
Speaker 9: gift of fifty dollars. Okay, Sierra had never heard of them.
1:00:11
Speaker 9: This woman will call her Wendy. She gave Sierra her number.
1:00:15
Speaker 9: Sierra gave it to the private investigator to call. He called,
1:00:18
Speaker 9: and this woman's like, I don't know what you're talking about.
1:00:21
Speaker 9: I don't know who Wendy is. What are you even saying?
1:00:24
Speaker 9: And the private investigators like, okay, that's strange. They got
1:00:29
Speaker 9: the name of another man that was with her. We'll
1:00:31
Speaker 9: call him John. Crime Junkie tied John back to working
1:00:35
Speaker 9: for Caterpillar, Inc. Which is interesting because they have many
1:00:40
Speaker 9: public contracts with the Department.
1:00:42
Speaker 1: Of If you know or think you know anything regarding
1:00:50
Speaker 1: the death and the disappearances of these scientists, please dial
1:00:54
Speaker 1: toll free. That's what eight hundred call FBI. Eight hundred
1:00:59
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four. Eight hundred two
1:01:05
Speaker 1: two five five three two four. We remember an American
1:01:11
Speaker 1: hero Officer, Amy Caprio, Baltimore County PD, just twenty nine,
1:01:16
Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty after three years, leaving
1:01:19
Speaker 1: behind her husband Tim American hero Officer Amy Caprio. Thank
1:01:26
Speaker 1: you to all of our esteemed guests joining us tonight,
1:01:29
Speaker 1: but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray
1:01:32
Speaker 1: signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night,
1:01:33
Speaker 1: and until then, good night, friend,