Latest / GAIN Momentum / Innovating on All Fronts with a New Hotel Brand | with Christopher Hunsberger
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- GAIN Momentum episode #23- Innovating on All Fronts with a New Hotel Brand | with Christopher Hunsberger === Jason Emanis: Welcome to another episode of the Gain Momentum podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from global industry leaders about how to grow and scale a business in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I'm Jason Emanis here with my co host Adam Mogelonsky Adam, how are you? Adam Mogelonsky: Great as always. Jason Emanis: Today's guest is Christopher Hunsberger, co founder and chief operating officer of Appellation, a luxury hotel brand. Hello, Chris. Christopher Hunsberger: Good afternoon. Good Adam Mogelonsky: So Chris, our podcast structure is framed around four key questions that we ask senior leaders looking at timeless lessons and yourself, you have over three decades of experience with Four Seasons, if I'm not mistaken, and that is tremendous for everyone to learn from you. So with that, we're going to dive right into the first question [00:01:00] here, which is what single piece of advice would you give to vendor companies looking to enter hospitality? Christopher Hunsberger: question. Thanks for asking that Adam. A couple things come to mind, so I'll take a little latitude with that question if I can. and one is not unlike so many things in the hospitality business is really understanding your customer. Um, so really knowing the customer and, uh, doing your homework on that customer before you create that first level of engagement. Certainly is also making sure that you've given some thought to that customer, in terms of tailoring your message and making it specific and hopefully resonate with that person you're You're approaching or, uh, making your pitch to, and the last thing is not unlike so many things in life and certainly in the world of business, so many things also go well beyond the actual product offering, but it's so much about relationships. And so how to embellish upon that relationship, how to build the relationship. I think are all really important points, of that, you know, the, the reach out, to [00:02:00] make that happen. Jason Emanis: Tell us, 30 years at one organization, you had to have developed a handful of long term key relationship with vendors. I mean, can you give us an example of one of those relationships? How did it come to be and how did it sustain itself over the years? Christopher Hunsberger: Yeah, I have to give a little bit of thought to that one, but yes, in 30 years definitely developed some key relationships, with clients and with vendors. client comes to mind, great client of, of Four Seasons Hotels. And still remains, you know, someone that I stay in touch with is Bill and Stacey Fisher, icons in the travel side of the business, um, run one of the most prestigious, agencies today in New York City, they are, individuals who I respect immensely, built a relationship from the ground up or, or leveraged a relationship that the company had with them, but two people who appreciated. Having a relationship, being able to pick up the phone when they had an important client that they wanted us to make sure we took great care of. but [00:03:00] also we're really great about providing really candid, honest feedback, which I think is, is so important that as, uh, you're on the receiving end of that, you can count on people to give you the, the good news. And also, you know, the opportunities to sort of improve upon that. So, they would be one that I would talk about, uh, that. Really, um, was instrumental, and still remains someone that, uh, that we're connected to going forward. A lot of vendors out there that, you know, had great relationships. I'll, I'll call out one, maybe one that's not as well known, but a company called Avero, started by two different individuals, uh, Damian Mogavero and Doug C, probably started 15 or more years ago. Really as a sort of software provider in the hospitality restaurant space and we were Four Seasons an early adopter of that technology that really gave us great insights into food and beverage and how we were performing. This was at a time where we were really evolving our food and beverage offering and its relevance and, um, all aspects of that [00:04:00] business, but Avero was a great partner to us In my Four Seasons days, as we were really thinking about the next evolution of food and beverage inside Four Seasons Hotels. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, with Four Seasons now shifting gears to Appellation and looking at Appellation Insights, which is this, this incredible undertaking of developing your own internal technology stack and looking at the vendors there and with respect to relationships, how did you go about evaluating your vendors from a relationship standpoint? Christopher Hunsberger: it started first with us, our senior leadership team, in particular our Director of Finance and our Chief Marketing Officer, Ed Skapinok. Kind of figuring out who was a great consultant for us to bring on board to help guide us through that process that bought into our vision. Coming back to that first question you asked, all about relationships and did we connect and was, did it feel like a good fit? And it did. And that consultant was a gentleman [00:05:00] named Mark Fancourt. Mark's been with us on this journey for well over two years. And very early on, Mark took the time to help us sort of unfold and unlock, you know, what we were doing. And what we wanted the guest experience to be, but also what we wanted our associate experience to be. And from there, we really started to evaluate, you know, what are the things that are going to allow us to leverage today's technology? Not necessarily on the bleeding edge or the cutting edge, but things that, you know, really were relevant. And in many cases, established hotel companies, hadn't had a chance to sort of fully embrace because when you're in a big established company, it takes a long time to impact change like that. And as you probably know, being as well studied as you are in the hospitality business, in a lot of hotel tech stack ecosystems, it's not uncommon today to have 100, 120 different functions. Um, and in some cases, a lot of providers or a lot of users, are actually using, you know, over 100 different applications or software applications. [00:06:00] We wanted to look at ways to simplify that. Um, less is more. It's a lesson I've learned along the way, and find providers that could, be more than just sort of one unique software offering. And so we've gone from a high level look at that to 120 different functions to how do we boil that down to delivering that same functionality, but with a much shorter list of vendors. So we've been on this journey for well over two years. We've called that down to really just under 50 different unique providers that we're using as opposed to many other brands say that we'd be using a lot more than that. and evaluating the players that could provide that sort of multifunctionality, as a software provider. Also understanding how they wanted to embrace what we were doing, because in some cases we're doing a lot of things that are a bit different and unique. I'll say to you that the foundation or the cornerstone of a couple of the key components of that today are really Salesforce, as that sort of one go to CRM. Um, they've been a [00:07:00] great partner to work with. They have a middleware provider called HAPI. That also has been an integral part of that. And then, really a PMS provider that we found really understood us, understood the importance of being able to allow the consumer, the guest, to do a lot more one stop shopping. You know, not just book a room reservation, but book your spa reservation, book your food and beverage, your restaurant offerings is Maestro. and they're really kind of the foundational pieces of our tech stack today. And we've just sort of carefully been on this journey for, you know, well over two years building that out. And road testing it. And, um, you'll start to see parts of that, our web presence today, we have a web website, but we'll be launching a new website in the first quarter of next year, that again, I think will be a very compelling offering, um, especially from a, a guest and a consumer perspective, but doing some really unique things on that front with those providers and the others that sort of enhance the offering, if you will.[00:08:00] Adam Mogelonsky: There's a lot to unpack there and I'm sure we could go through specific technology challenges that you've faced with regards to functionality, but maybe we can tie those into our second question here, which is, Chris, what are some of the challenges or setbacks you've experienced when rolling out a new business expansion or partnership? Christopher Hunsberger: Great, great, great question, Adam. And boy, I guess we have to book another opportunity to get together to discuss that could be a long, long conversation, but. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, just some highlights. Christopher Hunsberger: some highlights for sure. One thing that's really hard to predict as a startup as we are, um, five years into our journey is to anticipate growth, and how quickly we'll grow. We were really moving along very quickly and expeditiously, uh, when we started the company five years ago, and then this crazy thing came along called the pandemic, um, which through, I think, everybody in the industry, uh, a curveball or two. So, uh, being able to, you know, to manage that through that was important, but we've always tried to make sure that as [00:09:00] we think about growth and navigating the journey, that we're constantly thinking about how can we grow more quickly when the opportunities present themselves, but in a, thoughtful and in a logical way, in a way that, you know, we're not stretching ourselves too far. You know, today, I, I, we're still big believers in. The team we build, the talent, um, that we have, and the talent that we will bring into our team going forward is really an integral part. All of our key senior leaders today that are on board are people that are really good with one specific function but they also are willing to kind of roll up their sleeves and do what it takes in a startup to make things happen. And so, uh, there's no day where You know, whether we're talking about Ed as our Chief Marketing Officer or Jennifer, our Vice President of Operations or any other members where they're not doing things that perhaps are beyond the normal scope of their job. But it allows us, um, that ability to scale up and tackle issues as they arise. And the other thing we're constantly doing is We're [00:10:00] constantly talking with people that can be a part of the next phase of our evolving our team. we've had extraordinary interest in jobs that we've posted, that quite honestly we may not fill for three or four months, but we always want to be ahead of that curve, making sure we've got a robust pipeline of talent, of people that we feel not only have the right skill set, have the right experience, but very importantly are a great cultural fit to the company. Jason Emanis: How do you choose those folks? It's like a. Why do you think that they're attracted, first of all, and then, your hiring process, is there anything unique about it? Christopher Hunsberger: I don't know that I could say we're writing the book on it or, or we've got some, you know, secret sauce or secret recipe in the case of a food and beverage centric company. But certainly, we've We've gotten great traction through LinkedIn, which today is a great resource for companies to recruit through. And I think we've learned to leverage that a lot more as a tool that goes beyond sort of our presence out there in the business community. again, we've had great success and great [00:11:00] responses. When we're, you know, writing or posting a job on LinkedIn, we kind of Look at it and how can we create something a little more compelling so that when someone looks at it happens to come upon it It makes them go a little deeper And when it comes down to actually, you know, the the conversations we're having with candidates we have leveraged like everybody else today, you know functionality like this where you can get on the phone and Actually see people and talk to people and they can get to know us We believe that, you know, not only is it important for us to feel like they're a good fit, but we want to make sure they get a chance to know us. So, everyone that we're hiring today meets most of our senior leadership team. Sometimes that's virtually. We always prefer to have several conversations in person. And in some cases, we afford the opportunity for people to join us, you know, as a consultant and things like that. Before they make that sort of full leap of faith and join us more permanently. It's a great way for both parties to get to know each other. So, maybe a little bit different than traditional [00:12:00] recruiting and onboarding, but it's worked for us really well so far. And allowing the team to meet, you know, the new colleague that's coming in and feeling a part of that discussion and that decision. We feel is really important as we build out a company where Culture is very important to us in the organization. Adam Mogelonsky: to bridge the gap between culture, talent, team building, and also you mentioned earlier the associate journey. via technology. I'm wondering, could you share some light on how you've crafted the Appellation Insights full stack platform to better encourage this team building and really make your talent shine? Christopher Hunsberger: early on in that, great, great question Adam, and there's certain functionality today that we've not sort of gotten as, as deeply into. And as you can well imagine, probably not unlike anybody else out today, we're trying to figure out how does AI come into this? You know, many of those software providers that I mentioned earlier and [00:13:00] others that we're in conversations with right now, are all embracing it in different ways. We think there's a place for it. And trying to understand that as it evolves and as we evolve as something we're definitely trying to figure out and unpack and figure out where it makes sense for us to leverage the, you know, various functionality that's afforded through, you know, companies embracing AI. We still believe as it comes to building a team, there's nothing better than being together in a space. Um, it doesn't mean that we don't have people periodically working remotely and that sort of thing. But, there's nothing that replaces the conversation by the water cooler or over a cup of coffee in the morning. And so we really do encourage, you know, our team today to be in the office with great regularity so that there is that ability to interact, not only in the formal sort of meetings and that sort of thing, but the informality of that is equally as important. Adam Mogelonsky: currently your company, Appellation is based in Healdsburg, Christopher Hunsberger: That's correct. Hillsburg, [00:14:00] California. Northern Sonoma County, just about an hour north of, uh, San Francisco. Adam Mogelonsky: And of course there are properties that are planned for, well beyond just wine country California. Christopher Hunsberger: Yes, Adam Mogelonsky: So, so I'm wondering how do you find the post pandemic balance between having your company and having everyone really develop that in person culture in Healdsburg with this work from home mentality that, and particularly across a brand that is, uh, that is expanding rapidly across the country? Christopher Hunsberger: yeah. Well, the good news for us is we're very focused, maybe somewhat selfishly, but also really wanting to make sure that what we do, we do extremely well. You know, the first hotel and whatever is the next hotel after that will be what people judge us on, so today we're very focused on building out the first, you know, handful of properties on the west coast. Have turned down many opportunities to go other places, you know, beyond the Rockies as you head east. But that's been a core focus of [00:15:00] ours. One of the things we want to make sure we get right before we go reaching out too far geographically. is the ability to make sure that we can be at any one of our hotels within a matter of hours. You know, today, whether we're talking about Healdsburg, which is where our corporate headquarters are, where our first hotel will open, down the road we have another project in Petaluma, which is the south end of Sonoma County, a 30 minute drive away. We have a project going south down in Monterey County, which is a two and a half hour drive on a good day, down in Pacific Grove, probably the furthest one geographically away from us today. And the first four is out in Sun Valley, Idaho, but again, you know, good air in and out of there and we can get there, you know, within a matter of hours, you know, via air. We want to make sure that we're connecting with our teams, that our corporate team. We'll spend a lot of their time not in the office, actually, they'll spend it at the property level, you know, supporting our teams, which we think is really critically important. And really the other part of your [00:16:00] question is, you know, how do we, how do we strike that balance today with, you know, what's happened during the pandemic and people wanting to spend more time at home? I think we're, we're a lot more open to it. As a person who grew up always being in the office, you know, the pandemic was a good wake up call, I think, for many of us. And so. We've tried to be a bit more flexible and fluid in that regard, and making sure, you know, team members, senior team members today as we build out the corporate team, know when are those key days we need them all to be here, but allow some fluidity in their schedule. Adam Mogelonsky: Right. I think that's a good point. You mentioned earlier about AI and. To now go over to our third question. Chris, what do you see as the biggest opportunities for growth in hospitality for 2024 and beyond? Christopher Hunsberger: You know, what, the space we identified with my co founder and business partner and CEO, Charlie Palmer, was really, what we refer to today as approachable luxury. Look at my, my background, right, or where Charlie spent a lot of his life has [00:17:00] been, you know, in the, in the high end of luxury, um, whether it's working for Four Seasons Hotels or Charlie working inside of, of Luxury Hotels, as being the F& B provider. But what we've, what we believe today is, is a real opportunity is this, what we refer to as approachable luxury. It's, it's the comforts, uh, and the amenitization you would expect in a luxury hotel. But in many cases, it's, it's more relaxed, um, we really focus on profiling, our associates, our team at the property level, and we want their personalities to, uh, really influence the experience with those guests, uh, and customers. We are very food and beverage centric in all that we do, so the minute you arrive at one of our hotels, you, you know you're arriving at a place where Food and beverage is embraced, and, um, literally when you arrive into our Healdsburg Hotel, it might be like if I were inviting you over to my house for dinner. You've probably come in through the kitchen door, not the front door, and you'd [00:18:00] know that, you know, you've arrived in the kitchen because there's something going on, there's something being cooked, uh, there might be someone, one or more of us actually cooking something, and so many great things happen, um, you know, over food and over a glass of wine or whatever your beverage is of choice. And so, we really celebrate and profile, you know, food and beverage and the team that, that makes that happen at our property levels. All of our kitchens are open kitchens, um, that really connect to the lobby and provide a level of activation there, so that it's, they're active places. Um, And, you know, going beyond that, know, there's a lot of things we've done programmatically that sort of re re emphasize the food and beverage component of what we're doing. You know, today, um, wherever we have the land to work with, as we do in Healdsburg, we've got a couple acres, of our property that will be planted in gardens where we're growing. Great, great news here. In Sonoma County, we can grow things almost year round, um, so we'll bring a lot of that truly from [00:19:00] our small gardens at the property level and they'll be used in the food and beverage program. It's just another element and where we, we don't have those, know, gardens on the grounds, you know, the, the relationship to local vendors and sourcing as much food product and beverage product, you know, through local sources is, is really, really important and those relationships. And we Another sort of foundational part of what Appellation is all about is we really believe, you know, to create true sense of place, we want these hotels that we're building and will ultimately be open. We want them to be a place where they're embraced by the community and that they're truly representative of the community that you, as a guest, If you're coming to Healdsburg, in the heart of Sonoma County wine country, you know, you should be able to, while you're there, if you want to, elbows, you know, or interact with winemakers that are from here. Purveyors that are, are, you know, growing things from here. Um, you know, there's such a robust [00:20:00] ecosystem of makers and artisans and farmers and vintners in this destination, that we want, you know, to be a place for them to go to and that's a comfortable place. but also a place that they want to bring people to, so they can feel, you know, that much more connected to the community. So connection to community. is another thing that we put very high in how we sort of position these hotels and what's happening inside the hotels. Jason Emanis: What was the impetus to go, food experience first versus golf or river rafting or Christopher Hunsberger: it's an opportunity that a couple others embraced before us. I wish I could say we're the pioneers and, you know, this is a unique concept. We often, you know, look to those who have gone before us as inspiration. I think a guy, uh, who led a company back, you know, 35, 40 years ago, might not have the exact timing right on it, would be Bill Kempton and what Bill Kempton did with the first handful of, of Kempton Hotels, where [00:21:00] they really embraced the importance of food and beverage and did it very, very well. They executed very, very well on that. Kempton today is a much bigger hotel company, but that would be one. And you know, we, we just see today and the pandemic just underscored it that much more, more and more people want to go out and dine, right? Again, our hotels are as much about the traveler coming and staying in those hotels as they are about the communities that we serve and that we live in. So, we want our restaurants, we want, you know, our spas, we want all these other amenities that we offer. It's not just for hotel guests, it's also a place where we want locals to feel very comfortable and to frequent those places. But food and beverages, it's just so many people, I'm sure that you all know it, um, not knowing your, dining habits, but, you know, today everybody loves to talk about, you know, the latest restaurant, the latest bar, the latest, you know, offering in, in any town where we're, you know, going and, and building a new hotel right now. And it's just so much a part of everyone's [00:22:00] lives that we thought we, this is, this is not a trend that's going away. It's only gotten stronger, I think, in, uh, A much more important ingredient of the way people live today. And so, uh, we wanted to seize that opportunity and embrace it because we think it's a core part of hospitality in this interesting merger of, of more traditional hotels and, and hospitality offerings with a really strong food and beverage component. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, aside from just food and beverage, you mentioned embracing the community and showcasing the community. And, uh, through amenitization, I've never actually used that word. Christopher Hunsberger: I, I'm not sure that's a real word, Adam, but I, I'm, I'm going Adam Mogelonsky: now. Christopher Hunsberger: it. Okay, Adam Mogelonsky: But I'm wondering if you could unpack another feature of Appellation that I really like, which is the makerspaces. From a community standpoint, and I'm wondering if you could talk about going from inception to then implementation. [00:23:00] And really, my impetus for asking this is there are probably a lot of hoteliers out there who are like, I have this great idea, I have this great idea, I just don't know how to bring this forward and really operationalize it. And your words of wisdom. Talking about the soup to nuts, if there is an expression, in the makerspaces could really, really help a lot of people understand this process. Christopher Hunsberger: sure. it came about through a lot of discussion, as a team, as we thought about how do we differentiate, how do we do something that, again, allows us to bring this true sense of place, and bring local makers, local artisans, local talent, and profile them and showcase them inside of our hotels. And then the other driver in it was We know in most hotels, uh, you know, a part of your business is going to be driven by, um, whether it's the board retreat, or a small event of some sort, or maybe something [00:24:00] that much bigger. But event space tends to be a core programming element of hotels. The one thing we've seen, and one thing we've experienced firsthand, is, having event space that is exclusively designed for, you know, for events as we know them today. Again, large birthday party, uh, you know, a bar mitzvah, a wedding, a corporate event. Those are, are pretty straightforward in terms of their programming. We saw an opportunity to sort of expand that and create spaces that are more flexible with what, as you, uh, referred to earlier as maker spaces. They're spaces, quite often, um, that are either adjacent to or connected to, uh, our restaurants and bars and or, our event spaces. They're flexible spaces. In Healdsburg, we have a couple of them that they literally, um, we have sort of glass boxes inside of the restaurant, and those walls can go away and they can become, on a busy night in the restaurant, they can [00:25:00] be just, you know, additional seating inside the restaurant. But on nights where we don't need it or in the daytime where maybe the, those spaces aren't as much demand, they're spaces where we can profile, local makers, local artisans and that sort of thing. And we do that in a couple of different ways. We do that. You know, literally where there might be, um, you know, our local coffee purveyor here doing a cupping exercise so people can learn about, you know, how they, they actually roasted the coffee and what makes, you know, different blends that they're making unique and taking, taking people through a cupping exercise where they're learning about coffee. It could be where Um, you know, another time of the day, we're actually profiling one of our staff who are doing something, creating something, could be one of our kitchen staff that are preparing something. So if you wanted to just happen in there and see what they're doing and, you know, bend their ear about something that you found kind of unique or interesting, you could learn from them in a very. They're a casual impromptu way, but we also have another element of something that makes us unique is we have [00:26:00] a programmatic side of that learning experience, which we call crafted classes, crafted at Appellation. And we've started these, you know, already in Healdsburg, even though we're a year out, from opening. Uh, we have one coming up this Saturday where we work again. with local makers, local artisans, and our own team members to provide a more structured learning experience. This week, um, we're doing one on Saturday up here, which is a whole, this learning to design a moss wall. Um, we're working with some local, you know, purveyors in that space, uh, where people will literally have a hands on experience with a, a designer, to learn how to make a moss wall. And of course, because we're a food and beverage centric company, there's a food and beverage offering to that as they take in the class. The weekend after next, we've got a fun one coming up. where it's a cocktail class that we're doing. People will go, they'll have a chance to make three different unique cocktails. We paired up with a local distiller who's [00:27:00] providing the spirits for us. So again, really profiling a local distiller here that's very connected to our community. And it's an opportunity where also Charlie is profiling a new cuvee that he's worked on with a Vintner, that'll be, uh the first time that, so we're bringing that to the public and profiling something unique that we're creating in working with a vendor. So, those maker spaces kind of ebb and flow and serve a lot of different purposes for us, they could be a traditional, you know, event space, but more often not, it's something else that allows us to leverage those spaces, in different ways than, than just a traditional meeting space. And then just one other element that's sort of connected to that. is in our larger event spaces right now. Again, in bringing food and beverage forward, we've put in exhibition kitchens. So, where it's right, it's not right for every event, but literally, the kitchen that supports in Healdsburg, we have what we call a grange. It's a meeting space that looks like a modern day barn. beautifully tricked out. Uh, but behind a wall, we can [00:28:00] literally open up these beautiful walls. And there is a full on exhibition kitchen where appropriate, it could be a place where, you know, a beautiful breakfast layout is laid out with, you know, some activation from one of our, our staff or more of our staff serving, but it also could be a place where we're literally doing preparation and part of that preparation, the experience around it is actually happening as a part of that event that's going on. So, um, exhibition kitchens is sort of another example of that. element, uh, programmatically of how we, you know, profile our teams and, and bring food and beverage into, uh, maybe a more non traditional, uh, setup than you would expect. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, all three of these, the exhibition kitchens crafted by Appellation, the makerspace is really what we're talking about here is innovation in some very profound ways. And with innovation, there can be problems. So we're going to circle back here with our fourth question, which is, Chris, what problems would [00:29:00] you advise entrepreneurs to focus on solving in order to quickly scale within the hotel industry? Christopher Hunsberger: You know I had the good fortune actually, um, while Katie Taylor was the CEO at, at Four Seasons to, work with Katie and some other senior leaders to lead sort of an innovation initiative. So I've, I'm a student of it. I don't profess to be a, a, a PhD in innovation, but I've learned a lot through the years. And so, you know, one of the things that, that we celebrate at Appellation and that's sort of playing from my past is in order to encourage innovation, you have to give people some latitude. We've spent a lot of time, in the last two or three years building out how these hotels, all of our hotels will run and be operated. But at the end of the day, we want to know, we want our teams to know that are running those hotels and they're there every day, 24 7, because as you know, a hotel is open 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. And we want them to have that ability to innovate beyond, you [00:30:00] know, the foundation that we've created. And with innovation, as you, as you sort of hinted to, you have to be willing to, you know, to, over once in a while, realize that it may not work out just as perfectly as you thought it did, even if you have the best laid plans. But hopefully there's lessons learned from that, and hopefully You know, our teams, or whether it's us as the corporate team, are thinking through what, what's the potential downside or what's the risk here, but willing to, you know, again, being very thoughtful about how it impacts the guests, but our associates too, make sure that, we're allowing for and, and providing an environment where innovation is celebrated because that's the way you evolve as an organization you are taking some risk, Adam. You, you, you are for sure. But, you know, helping people understand, you know, measured risk, uh, but encouraging people to constantly be evolving. We don't want to be stagnant in you know, our growth. And so there's, there's a fine balance in it all. Jason Emanis: Fail quickly. It sounds like you have a culture [00:31:00] that's attractive to hoteliers and wannabe hoteliers. To bring in the right people to do just that. It's like, yeah, you can come in here and we want you to think. We want you to use your brain. And, you know, we like your idea and it doesn't work. You know, keep trying. Christopher Hunsberger: Yep. Very much so. Adam Mogelonsky: He has, uh, Jason said, uh, fail fast forward, I guess is, the phrase that he's, I think that's a military phrase, but it's, uh, Jason Emanis: S. or Canadian. Adam Mogelonsky: yeah, uh, U. S., um, you know, we, uh, up, up here in Canada, we, we, we, we do our, we have a proud military, but we always look, look south for inspiration in a lot of ways, in more ways than one, Christopher Hunsberger: north too, as a guy who's lived in Toronto twice in my lifetime, right? It goes both ways. Hopefully, hopefully we, we learn a lot from you all too. Adam Mogelonsky: yeah. Chris, I can't thank you enough. This has been just a fantastic conversation to learn about Appellation, the [00:32:00] ways you're innovating and, uh, on more ways than one, not just technology but also culture and team empowerment, attracting talent. It's, it's so important for everyone to hear. Thank you. Christopher Hunsberger: I can't thank you and, and Jason enough, really great to spend time with you. Say hi to your dad from us, um, who I've known for many years and have admired, you know, as someone who, has helped, you know, enunciate and, and amplify, um, so many voices and, and companies, you know, in the hospitality business over the years. And it's, it's great to see you following in his footsteps, but evolving and innovating beyond, you know, where dad sort of laid the foundation. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, yeah, thanks. I mean, uh, I'm not sure he's, uh, a big on podcasting, but this is the future of media, so to speak, right? Christopher Hunsberger: Indeed. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and for everyone who's listening, amenitization, you've heard it first, it's now a word. [00:33:00]