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O-Zone Podcast: Tony Pauline · The Jacksonville Jaguars Official Podcast Network

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Ozone Podcast, presented by five Star Credit
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: with Jaguars senior writer John Osan. Today's guest I'm looking
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: forward to because today's guest is a guy that Jaguars
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: fans have known for what. Tony Pauline helped me out
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: here fifteen years probably so probably longer. I think, Uh, yeah,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: big catchman. It's Tony Pauline of the Pro Football Network,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: and yes, has been working at Jaguars dot com forever
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: back when Vic I think, uh, and you guys at
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: first used to just talk and then he brought you
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: onto the website. It's been a relationship ever since. We
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: appreciated the Jaguars. I used to all in the new
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: paper that went out. I think first they sold as
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: a subscription. Then it was in the Jackson Jacksonville Jaguar Union,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the Union Times or whatever they put it in there.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I used to do all all the draft stuff back
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: in the day. If my son was here, you'd say,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: what's the paper? There? You go, you know, so that's it.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: But yes, Vick started that, uh Jaguars dot com. For
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: people who don't know, Vick Keschman, my predecessor, started Jaguars
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: dot com. Essentially as a team newspaper for four or
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: five years. It transitioned over to Jaguars dot Com, and
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Tony Pauline has been you know, in some capacity, talking
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: working with for a long long time. Take me through
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: this draft, Tony. I keep hearing we'll get to the
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: number one overall pick. That's a huge topic. I keep
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: hearing that it is a good draft at the top. Okay,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: draft at the top, but then a really good draft
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: as you go further. Do you see it that way? Yeah,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: it depends on the position. You know, we are in
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: a quarterback craze time in the NFL, and when it
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: comes to the draft, you constantly see quarterbacks being overdraft
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't like this draft because
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: last year you had quarterbacks once you three this year
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't have a quarterback draft in the top fifteen.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: But going back prior to Vick Heshman Jaguars report, there
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: was a time in the NFL draft where the impact
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: defensive player was the most covered a type of prospect
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: in the draft. That's what you have this ship Aidan Hutchinson,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: maybe Cavon Thibodeaux, maybe David Jabu. You've got a couple
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: of the good corners at the at the top. So
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: it is a real good draft by NFL standards, but
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: people aren't don't see the sexiness, if you will, of
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: the draft because there's no quarterback at the top, which
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: is kind of crazy in my opinion. Right before we talked,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: you talked with Ashlonewander the Jaguars, and she asked you
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: who they were gonna pick number one. Uh, your answer
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: was very interesting. I go over that again if you will,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: and we'll talk about it more. Well, first of all,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: it's to be determined. I mean with the draft is
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: still what two months away, and we're just starting the
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: combine workout so and the interview process and the medical
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: medical is gonna go in. But you know, you build
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: great or good football teams by drafting great or good
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: football players. If you constantly draft for need, what happens
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: is two or three years down the road, you can say, well,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: we passed up on this guy. If you take an
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: offensive line and like an Evan Neil with the first
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: pick of the draft, and he can't play left tackle,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: or he doesn't pan out, or Aidan Hutchinson turns into
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: an All Pro defensive type player, you're gonna say, well,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: we missed on that pick. So I think when you're
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: a situation with the job watch granted they have to
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: protect Trevor Lawrence that you've got to get some weapons
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: around them, but you still are in a phase where
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: you've got to collect really good football players, and you've
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: got to collect the best football players, and Aidan Hutchinson,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Cavan Thibodet on my board, are much higher rated than
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: any of the offensive lineman. You're talking about something that
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I've been writing about for the last couple of weeks,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and that I get questions all the time from fans
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: should they go offensive line or pass rush? And I
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: continue to say it, it's not as simple as talking
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: about the two positions. It's you've got to look at
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: the player this year's draft. You can't just draft position. Ideally.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I think if you had a left tackle that was
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: premier and rated over those guys, you'd probably saying something different.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: But you're saying, look, you gotta look at the player
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: in this year's draft. Absolutely, and I agree with what
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: you said. There's no pure can't miss past protecting left
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: tackle at the top of this year's draft. Evan Neil
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: there are people like myself Will Field. Maybe he can
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: play left tackle, but he's probably better off on the
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: right side. There are some people in league who feel
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: he can play. He's better at guard, you know, a quantu.
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  Speaker 1: When I watch him play, I think he can be
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: a dominant right tackle, a dominant guard. I have my
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: concerns about him at left tackle, you know, even later
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  Speaker 1: later on if they I think in a perfect world,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: the Jaguars could maybe trade down a few slots and
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: then you justify taking the offensive lineman if that's available
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: to them. I was gonna ask you about that because
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: it feels from listening to Trent Vaalky the other day,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: they'd be very open to trading down. Um. The conventional
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: wisdom is without a quarterback there, it's gonna be tough
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: to do. What's Tony Pauline's wisdom on that. Let's see
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: what happens with with Kevan Thibodo. I posted a story
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: about him yesterday and there were some concerns about his
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: desire for football, his desire to be great. Situation that
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: you know, he feels like he's already made it rather
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: than working to take it. And if that was a
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: true as I'm hearing I got confirmation today that means
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: that Aidan Hutchinson is probably the standalone from your potentially
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: impact defensive players helps trade, which means that they're you know,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the supply and demand all of a sudden, it's more
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: demand than supply. There may be a greater market for team,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: say like the Jets or somebody like that, who's been
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: searching for a pass rusher who want to move up
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: and by the same token. However, if that's true and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Hutchinson starts becoming that guy you want, maybe there's lessons
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: center for the Jaguards to trade down because you want
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: the guy that's always Yeah. Absolutely, I mean if if
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: he's that much of a camp miss guy, and I
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: think Aidan Hutchinson is probably the Sheriffs pink in this
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: year's draft. He's got the least amount of questions. He
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the highest upside, but it isn't a lot
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: of downside. You know what you're getting with him, You're
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: getting a guy who was a great defensive player and
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: outstanding pass rusher who was going to play a hundred
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: and ten percent in every snap. You know, he's sort
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of the Jake Long, if you will, of the number
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: one picks, very safe, very dependable, you know what you're
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: getting with him. And yet my readers who asked me
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: questions more of them are concerned about Hutchinson and like him.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: But I assume that's just because of the Georgia games
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: talking me through him a little bit. How concerned are
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: you about that? Because that's the top and number one,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you should never evaluate a player off of one single game.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I think number two, when you really watched that game,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: it wasn't that It was as much that you know,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Georgia was able to contain Hutchinson, but they also game
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: planned around him. Georgia had a gate. If you watched
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: the game, they were going away from Hutchinson a lot,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: so you didn't have the game people will expected or wanted.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: You know, he didn't play the way he did against
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Ohio State and Nicholas petit Frere when he ate him alive.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: But the fact is that Georgia came into that game
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: with a plan to stay away from Aiden Hutchinson and
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: they implemented it very well. And you know, to clarify,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: that's not just your opinion, that's things you're hearing from
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the NFL people as well. Correct NFL people like this
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  Speaker 1: guy and they feel like he is the safest pick,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people in the NFL do believe.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: At the top of the draft you go for doubles
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and triples, reving swaying for the home run because you
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: want to make sure that you use that pick and
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: that you get value from You don't want to miss.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: When you are the Jaguars or a team like that,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: you can't afford to miss. And you know, if if
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: they take the offensive lineman and he can't play left
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: tackle or he struggles, or even worse, he struggles playing
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: left tackle, you can't afford to miss. Um you mentioned
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: at the top. It depends on the position. How you
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: feel about this draft. Take me through the positions you
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: like in this draft. What are the strongest places? Offensive tackle?
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Late in round one, through the second round through the
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: third round. A lot of talent, a lot of potential there.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Tight End. I don't think there's gonna be a tight
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: end draft in lat and round one you may get
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: one Day two literally through the fifth round. You can
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: get a real good tight end out of this draft.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: You can get starting tight end. I believe in the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: fourth round you can get a good number two tight
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  Speaker 1: end in the fifth round. So those are two the
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: I think, hands down, uh, the strongest positions in the draft.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I'll ask you this because I respect your opinion on
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: the draft. I keep getting emails about why is Kyle
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Hamilton's not a number one possibility? Uh? Is there any
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: way that happens? Is it is this that weird a
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: draft if that could happen? Or is Hutchinson too much
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: of a solid pick? You think, well, I mean, there
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: are a variety of opinions on Kyle Hamilton's Is he
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: gonna play safety in the NFL? Is he gonna be
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: a free safety? You look at his body type, I
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: think two or three years down the road, it's screams linebacker.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: And you look at what's happening with the NFL, and
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: they're taking these large college safeties and they're moving them
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: to outside linebacker. That's number one. Number two. I just
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: don't know that his game translates all that well to
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: the next level. And I think a guy like a
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Louis Scene in round two from Georgia, Qualm Brisker in
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Day two, Jalen Petrie from Baylor, or better value there
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: than taking Hamilton's at the top of the draft, I
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: got you. Wide receiver for the Jaguars is going to
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: be a huge topic in this draft, huge topics in
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: free agency. It's obviously I need tell me about the
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: draft in terms of where you can get guys and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: possibly is it possible to get a one one a
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: stud guy at number thirty three or do you have
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to trade up to get it? Well, I think, first
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: of all, all all a couple of things. It's not a
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: real good receiver draft for a couple of reasons. We've
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: been really spoiled the past couple of years with great
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: receiver drafts, quality and quantity. And what happens is when
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: you have that sort of year after year with great drafts,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of underclassmen, and eventually it's going to
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: dilute the position because the sophomores and juniors that we're
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: gonna would be seniors and juniors in this year's draft
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: are already in the league. The stream doesn't run forever. Absolutely,
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  Speaker 1: So now, to answer your question, you can get a
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: good receiver, I believe at thirty or three. I don't
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: know that you're gonna get the real big guy. That's
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: people like a Johan Dotson, Penn State and my opinion
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: is probably the most complete receiver in this year's draft,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go about five eleven. He may run
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: a low four fours, but when you watch the film,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: he's the guy who gets it between the ears. He's
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: a guy that presents himself as a good vertical threat.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: He wins out for the contested passes. He works well
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: with a mediocre quarterback at Penn State. Another guy who
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: may slip to them, who I absolutely love is Crystal
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Lava of Ohio State, a true vertical threat, another complete receiver,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: good route runner. You know everyone talks about the Traylon Berks,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: the big guys. NFL wants guys that can run good routes,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: that can separate through their routes, that we come free
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: of defenders. You can't consistently went out for the contestant
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: passes on Sunday because you're gonna get beaten up. Trail Um,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Crystal Lava, Johan Dots, and those are guys who do
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: it who I think will be around at the top
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: around two and be real good additions for a treviled Lawrence.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: It sounds to me like you believe Jarra's have twelve
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: picks this year, it's throughout the course of the draft.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Not as many at the top as they had last year.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: But this sounds like a decent year to have that
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: for a team that is trying to stop file talent.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: It needs talent. Had a lot of different areas it is,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and here's why. If you remember last year, the n
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: c double A gave seniors another year or they give
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: everybody another year of additional oligibility. So what happened last
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: year's draft in the seventh round was not good. What
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: was happening was last year you had guys who were
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: undrafted free agents, the seventh rounders going in the fifth
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and sixth round. So now you have this influx of
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: late round talents because of so many guys that played
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: two senior seasons. So what's gonna happen this year is
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have guys that are generally fourth and fifth
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: rounders end up as six and seventh rounders just because
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: of the the numbers game. You know, when you do your
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: draft board, you try and come up with players with
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: draftable grades. There's probably gonna be about three players with
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: draftable grades because of what happened last year. So perhaps
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Tony not a coincidence that Trent Bulky traded completely out
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: of the seventh round last year to get four sixth
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: round picks this year or two seven. Maybe he saw
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the you have to have four sight in the draft. Okay,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: if there's a player that you don't absolutely love and
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you can trade that pick to get an earlier pick
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: next year or more future pick, you absolutely have to
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: have that foresight. So I think that was a real
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: good move. Final thought, Uh, you watch the Jaguars from Afar,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: the Doug Peterson higher, where do you sort of see
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: them going now? I mean in terms of the franchise,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Kuryl Lawrence the whole summer, you know, they wanted a
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: culture change, not just in the locker room, but throughout
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the entire organization. I think Peterson brings that. You know,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the way he approaches the team, the game, game preparation,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: what he expects from his players. You know you're gonna
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: have more athletic tackles. That's the way he did at Philadelphia.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: He's a great developer of quarterbacks, which obviously is going
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: to be a need because you know, you want Trevor
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Lawrence to develop into the player we all think he
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: can be. I think it was. It's a good move,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: not just on the field, in the locker room, but
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: really up through the entire organization. It's a complete culture.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: He's a professional. He's a true professional who has a
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: body of work and that's going to be a plus
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: for the organization. Tony, consistently since I've been doing this,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: you're one of the best, most interesting people to talk
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: to you about this league. I appreciate you joining us
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: today and I look forward to talking to you in
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: the huge thanks for having me