Latest / The imuRgency Room / Why 2025 Was The Year of Nostalgia w/ Cecilia Winter

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Why 2025 Was The Year of Nostalgia w/ Cecilia Winter · The imuRgency Room

0:00
Hello everyone, thank you so much for tuning in today.
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Super happy to be joined by Cecilia.
0:06
Yes. Thank you so much for having me.
0:10
Could you give us a little insight on your role in Spotify,
0:14
how long you've been at the company?
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Just tell us a little bit about yourself.
0:17
Yeah, totally. So my role at Spotify is I'm the
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editorial lead for Global Hits, and what that means is working
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with a huge team of global editors to listen to new music
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every week, identify new trends, and basically support wherever
0:32
we can throughout our curated ecosystem on platform.
0:37
That's awesome. I love the editorial team at
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Spotify because I feel like there's so much that goes into
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it. And honestly, like, a lot of
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what people love about Spotify is how curated and how you're
0:50
able to just like, discover so much new music and like your
0:54
team is the bread and butter behind that.
0:56
Yeah, totally. I mean, we, we listen to
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thousands of new songs a week. We're always like, you're to the
1:03
ground trying to figure out what's going on, testing things,
1:07
seeing what works, what doesn't work in specific contexts.
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And most importantly, I think like always, you know, building
1:15
and rebuilding our understanding of our audiences for different
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playlists on platforms so we can continue to meet the user where
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they're at and amplify, amplify like cool music we think they're
1:26
gonna like next. I love that I did do a little
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bit of a deep dive audio. Oh my God.
1:31
And I don't. Know is this the part where you
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pull up like my old Instagram? No.
1:35
Like this is actually your baby picture, Hot One.
1:39
But I did see an interview, we were talking about some of your
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favorite playlists on Spotify, and one of those you mentioned
1:45
was Pop Sugar or Pop Sauce. Pop sauce, Yeah.
1:49
I was listening to it on the way here and I heard a lot of like,
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newer experimental artists. And I just wanted to ask like,
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kind of candidly, like, how do you decide which artists go into
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these experimental and upcoming playlists?
2:02
Totally. So when we're assessing what
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tracks are going to make it into playlists, we listen to the song
2:09
obviously, but we also assess a wide range of qualitative and
2:13
quantitative signals. So on the quantitative side,
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like if the song's already out, we're looking at like how much
2:20
is streaming? What are the velocity, What's
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the velocity of those streams? Like what kind of like likes and
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saves is it doing in other playlists?
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And we also assess off platform qualitative signals like where
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is it charting? Is something happening on, you
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know, in short form video that might be interesting to take
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into account here? But we also are looking at the
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qualitative side, so the non number side, which is to say,
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well, first of all, like, how does the song sound like?
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Is it good? We listen to so many thousands
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of songs. We've really, you know, each
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editor has built an expertise in understanding what makes a great
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song for a specific audience. We're also looking at, you know,
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like conversation, like cultural conversation, online discourse
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around the track, like what types of communities online are
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responding to it or, you know, offering any type of commentary
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on the track. And we take all of those
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quantitative and qualitative signals and use them all to
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inform what makes it into one of those playlists.
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So for playlists like Pop Sauce, which as you heard is a lot more
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like, you know, new wave of pop music, like you're going to hear
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a lot more experimental sounds. You're going to hear a lot of
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artists. It's chewing like traditional
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instrumentation and production styles.
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We really lean on that qualitative aspect and make sure
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that we're selecting tracks that are really perfect for the
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audience, that are pushing the boundaries out a little bit
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while retaining those pop sensibilities.
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And I love a playlist like that because we can get super
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creative with it. And it's not really hemmed in by
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anyone sound, you know, outside of like, the broadest frameworks
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of pop music. So I really love that.
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And we're also always talking to our editors, our colleagues from
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around the world who are putting us on to new artists from their
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cities, from their countries, and saying like, hey, this might
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be a good fit for pop sauce. Like this person is sort of
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reminds me of this artist or is tapping into this cool new
4:24
moment. You might want to give it a try.
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So we're always in communication there as well.
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I think that's so cool to like the standout artist that I
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personally love that are on that playlist are Adela and Pink
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Panthers. And I think Pink Panthers is
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really having a big moment this year.
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And what I really love about her sound is that it's so like,
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again, new wave, but also so nostalgic in a way, like reusing
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or like sampling, interpolating older sounds that have been used
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in the past. And that kind of brings me to
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our conversation today about like nostalgia.
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Cause nostalgia is huge, especially when we're talking
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about things like rapt and taking a look towards the past.
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On my channel, we talk a lot about nostalgia, looking back at
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past trends and past pop culture moments with things like or with
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artists like Pink Panther and other like more nostalgic acts.
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Is there anything that has happened this year and nostalgia
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that's like shocked you with music?
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Well, in terms of shocking, 1 shocking aspect of pop culture
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right now is it seems like people are nostalgic for like
5:28
millennial core. I'm seeing a lot of people talk
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about like, oh, I wish I was, you know, living in Brooklyn in
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2012. A little jarring to me because I
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was and I'm kind of like, Oh my God, I'm happening.
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Like I'm at the age where like people are nostalgic about my
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20s, which is which I welcome. It's a blessing to get old
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enough to have people be nostalgic about about what you
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were living. But I think it will be really
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interesting to see should that trend continue to grow, Like are
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we going to start to see a resurgence of the sounds that
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were really popular during that time, which I think we have
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already seen to an extent. Like there's definitely been a
6:11
resurgence in the last like 18 months of folk pop, which
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obviously was huge, like the early twenty 10s in that hipster
6:18
space, the, you know, hand clapping and foot stomping
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sound. And it will be interesting to
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see in what other ways people start playing with that in the
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music space. In terms of what was big this
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year on the nostalgia front, I think I would note that this is
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sort of this is an Evergreen complaint.
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Like like there's, you know, like there's no new stuff.
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There's it's only old stuff. Everyone's harkening back to the
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olden days. So it is sort of part of like a
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it's part of a trend that has existed for many years.
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But I think that the artists that are, you know, most
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compellingly executing a more nostalgic sound like an Olivia
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Dean who has this, you know, beautiful, timeless quality to
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her music. I think she succeeds because
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she's really like a scholar of the time that she's referencing.
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And, you know, the, the artists that succeed in that space are
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artists who like really dive deep into what they're trying to
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pull from and, you know, do the research to find what find, you
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know, what the sounds and the instrumentation, the styles that
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are at the core of that type of music and then pull them in and
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incorporate them into their own art.
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Oh for sure. Like I am a huge fan of Levy and
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I feel like Levy also does something very similar, bringing
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back the older style of like jazz that I feel like we don't
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really hear as much of, at least in like a a pop culture sense.
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And I really love how she's able to modernize the jazz sounds and
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kind of get it out to like the youths of it all because I don't
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personally, I wasn't listening to jazz like often outside of
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like maybe studying at a coffee shop, but like not
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recreationally totally until she did it.
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And you could really tell that she has like, a mastery of her
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craft and like really loves it. Yeah, she's such an unbelievably
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talented musician, and because she spent so much time learning
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that craft and becoming familiar with that space, she's now able
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to incorporate it into more modern sounds and more
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contemporary stories that fans are really, really resonating
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with. Exactly, I feel like if we're
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talking about nostalgia and we're talking about sounds being
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revived, we got to talk about the 80's.
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The 80s is having a huge revival, not even just this year
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over the past. I want to say like 5 years.
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What are what are your thoughts on that?
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Like I feel like, like you were saying, like people talk so
8:41
often about we're always going back to nostalgia.
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We're always like going back to these older sounds.
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And some people may say they're getting like nostalgia fatigue.
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And one of the genres that specifically is about that or is
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mentioned in that conversation is like the 80s revival because
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it feels like everyone is doing like the 80s.
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What are your thoughts on that? And what do you think is like
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the next decade to really get that resurgence?
9:04
Yeah, totally. Well, I think it's interesting
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to say that 80s music has had a resurgence in the last year.
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I think the 1980s have established themselves as just a
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perennial touchpoint for pop culture.
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I don't think it's something that's unique to the last year.
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There are so many great projects.
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I mean, I'm thinking of obviously Taylor Swift's 1989,
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which came out in 2014, Carly Rae Jepsen's Emotion, which came
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out 2015. Plenty of albums prior to both
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of those that really leaned into like that 80s, those 80s drum
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machines and those 80s synth patterns.
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So I would say that it's more just like a, it's an Evergreen
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like touch point for young musicians, particularly pop
9:53
musicians. We're trying to find their
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style. They might lean into that space
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and pull something from what was really like a rich and creative
10:00
time and pop music. I think other touch points are
10:03
starting to spring up as well, like the 2000s, you know, like
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five years ago, I feel like we started getting like the first
10:09
wave of like 2000s nostalgia. But I think that's also going to
10:12
be something that artists a well that artists continue to go back
10:16
and draw from as time goes on. And then in terms of what we're
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going to see in the years to come, I mean, I think the the
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late 20 tens, we'll start to become a little bit more start.
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We'll start to, you know, rise to the top is more of like a
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touch point for people to reference.
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There's already, I'm seeing like a a return to like some of the
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aesthetics of like the, you know, late 2000s, early 20 tens
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like we were talking about before.
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And it'll be interesting to see whether artists are to like,
10:49
pull from, like the specific musical elements of that time as
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well. I I've been seeing on social
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media people already romanticizing like 2016.
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It's too soon for that. It's.
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Too soon because I. Was in high school it should be
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10 years I think you know that should be the statute of
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limitations I know next year it's going to be a free game.
11:12
Yeah. I think that's really
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interesting and it, it is like just a pervasive part of pop
11:16
culture. We reminisce on the times that
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were really important to us and that we already have an
11:22
emotional affinity for. Plus, when you're in the middle
11:25
of a moment, it's hard to look around and be like, oh, these
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are the musical and artistic and pop culture signifiers of this
11:31
moment. And I know they're going to hold
11:33
true. But now that enough time has
11:35
passed since 20/16/2010, you know, 2000, we can look back and
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be like, oh, these five things define music or the aesthetics
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of pop culture during this time. That's what I'm going to pull
11:47
from. And that's going to be like a
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direct and intentional reference.
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For sure. And I think that's so beautiful
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because I think so often with like, online discourse, people
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always say that like, because we copy things so much or like
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recreate things that like, this era isn't really going to have
12:02
something to look back on. But like, that's not necessarily
12:04
true. Yeah.
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Because there are like unique things that we don't know we're
12:07
doing or sounds that we're that are popular right now that we
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may not be like Privy to in the moment.
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But like 5-10 years down the line when we look back, there is
12:16
going to be a distinct sound for like what this era and what like
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the era of 2016 or whatever had as well.
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Yeah. And at the time it was just, you
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know, we're looking around like, well, this is just music and
12:28
culture, you know, it can't be defined.
12:29
And now it's like Shattershade. Right.
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You know, Shattershade's contouring.
12:35
Oh my gosh, yes. So yeah, I think it will be
12:38
really interesting to see how things progress.
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I do think like that much was made last year of there being a
12:46
resurgence of recession pop. And I was kind of happy to see
12:50
that it that didn't 100% happen. I like at least sonically,
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because I do think that a lot of those sounds from, you know, the
12:58
heyday of the 2008 recession pod, you know, can be pulled
13:02
from, but it need to be done so in like such a, in a, in a
13:06
creative way, like the way Pink Panthers uses her samples rather
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than just, you know, like a copy paste of that time, because then
13:12
it just sounds dated. So finding a way to like
13:15
reference these time periods maybe in the energy of the
13:19
music, like Charlie Bratt obviously having a huge moment
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sort of captured like the hedonism of recession pop, but
13:27
like was sonically fundamentally different.
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And like at its core, like, you know, Charlie was talking about
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like really like interesting topics.
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Like it wasn't all pure. Like we're in the.
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Club, let's forget everything. You know, although there was
13:39
plenty of that too, so I think. You forget that all the time.
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Like she gets sad on that. Yeah, I mean, listen to Apple.
13:46
Like Apple is like a fun, like that's the that was like the
13:49
biggest hit by the numbers off the project.
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And it's like a fun, danceable track about generational trauma.
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So it's I think it's cool to see artists can, you know, maybe
14:02
pull from some of the tones or some of the elements of the past
14:05
without fully doing a copy paste.
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I 100% agree. I also like love artists like
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Demi Lovato and her recent project.
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I feel like that's also like in that same, but going back
14:17
towards conversations from the editorial team and just the
14:20
editorial lens of Spotify and music.
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What role does the editorial team have in sort of curating
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these nostalgic sounds and nostalgic trends for things like
14:29
playlists and just the app in general?
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Yeah, totally. So you know, two things are
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happening with older music on platform right now. 1 is what
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we've been talking about, which is nostalgic sounds popping up
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in new artists, you know, repertoire.
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The other piece is actual catalog sounds like older songs
14:53
resurging in a major way. Like if you, you know, look at
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some of our rap data this year, you'll see that there are a ton
15:01
of older songs that are showing up in our like top 50 songs.
15:04
And I think a big part of that is how streaming has changed
15:09
consumption patterns and made it possible for you to discover an
15:14
older catalog track today that otherwise, you know, you might
15:18
never have come across because it doesn't play on the radio
15:20
stations you listen to and it's not getting, you know,
15:22
mainstream press coverage. Maybe you see it in a movie, but
15:26
you, you know, you didn't in the past have the ability to just
15:29
Shazam it. But now we have these tracks
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like, you know, 2 great examples from the last couple years,
15:35
obviously Running That Hill by Kate Bush and Stranger Things a
15:37
couple years ago and Murder on the Dance Floor by Sophie Ellis
15:40
Baxter now just appearing on the Spotify charts right alongside,
15:47
you know, like these tracks that came out yesterday.
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So what our team's job is in both these cases is to assess
15:55
how organic the demand for the actual song is.
15:58
So if if someone is streaming Murder on the Dance Floor, like
16:03
our job is to assess, like, is it just OK, we heard it in this
16:06
movie and people were curious and then they go on living their
16:09
lives? Or is it we heard it in this
16:11
movie and it's leading to like a real discovery moment for this
16:15
artist. People are diving in, learning
16:16
who Sophie Ellis Bextor is. Like she didn't have as big a
16:19
moment in the US as she did in the UK at the time.
16:22
So for a lot of people, it's a totally new artist.
16:24
So they're diving in, diving into the back catalog.
16:28
You know, great cover comes out with Royal Otis.
16:30
That helped add some fuel to the fire.
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And, you know, we we were seeing like some real like sticky
16:38
listenership there that really moved outside of the sink in the
16:41
movie. And so from there, like, we
16:44
might support it in like one of our viral flagships or in a pop
16:48
playlist, or we might start incorporating it into some of
16:51
our like, mood and contextual lists.
16:53
Like truly one of the best driving songs that was popular
16:56
that year. Yeah, really a hit in that
17:00
space. So it's cool to, you know,
17:03
figure out how we can support those more catalog songs in our,
17:08
in our playlist. And then same with the nostalgic
17:10
music, you know, we, we apply the same like qualitative and
17:15
quantitative signal assessment to those, you know, more
17:18
nostalgia leaning songs when we're deciding what, what goes
17:22
into each playlist. I think it's so interesting to
17:25
see how pop culture really does drive song discovery and like
17:29
artist discovery, especially in like, like you're saying the
17:31
modern era of streaming, the modern era of just like virality
17:34
on social media, because it's not just like shows that are
17:38
blowing up these songs and these artists.
17:40
It's also like Tik Tok's it's short form video.
17:43
It's different trends that are happening.
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Like I'm blanking on the song's name, but the Janet Jackson song
17:47
that got a resurgence. You.
17:49
You know what I'm talking. About Is it all for you?
17:53
It's like 1's like, yeah. Yeah, totally.
17:59
And just so many other songs like that that are seeing a
18:02
resurgence because they have like.
18:04
Oh yeah. Somebody called me lover.
18:05
Yes, thank you. So many other songs that are
18:07
getting resurgence from like TikTok trends or just random
18:11
like dances that happen on social media.
18:12
Do you feel like your team is also like accounting for that?
18:14
Are you all like Product Be Online as well?
18:16
I mean, with the case of Janet Jackson, we we're really excited
18:21
to put her in any playlist, like we're A-Team full of Janet fans.
18:25
Her impact on pop music really can't be overstated.
18:29
But in general, when it comes to like these trends that we see
18:32
pick you up on TikTok, yes, we're chronically online.
18:36
And in addition to that, we're also just assessing the charts
18:38
more broadly because obviously you're for you page doesn't look
18:41
just like mine. You know, like we want to make
18:43
sure that we're getting out of our own bubbles.
18:46
So we have a number of tools that we use to assess what's
18:49
happening on on social media and go from there.
18:53
It is really such an interesting thing that we're experiencing
18:57
right now where you can get your song, whether it came out
18:59
yesterday or 50 years ago, in front of a bunch of users, like
19:04
so many at once, like you, they're just going about their
19:07
lives and they're not planning to discover music, but they're
19:10
hearing your snippet, you know, 10-15 times in a session.
19:14
So I think that's really interesting.
19:18
What we're really looking for is who's then going and listening
19:22
to the whole song? Because if there's a difference
19:25
between having like a viral channel, like, oh, this is kind
19:28
of cute. And then you just keep on going.
19:31
But actually like clicking through, searching the song.
19:34
We're always looking at like the search metrics on Spotify.
19:38
What, what are people looking up?
19:41
You know, saves from TikTok, those types of things.
19:44
And then, you know, subsequent listens, shares, saves, lots of
19:47
on platform metrics that help tell us, OK, this has moved
19:51
beyond TikTok. Like there's something really
19:54
real happening here. And it's actually like a a bona
19:58
fide discovery moment. And that's when my team can step
20:01
in and help amplify that moment and, you know, be like, so you
20:05
like the beginning of this Janet Jackson song, like mind.
20:08
Me. Put you on to the next three.
20:14
I think that's always such like a fun experience getting to hear
20:17
it like the rest of the song. After the 15 second clip I'm
20:20
like oh wait, there's. More I know it is kind of funny.
20:22
There are definitely a number of I mean, the Pink Panther song
20:25
illegal. What an amazing song, so
20:29
interesting, so nuanced, so layered about like this sort of
20:32
funny experience of, you know, buying weed.
20:36
I assume I can say buying weed. In California.
20:40
And like, but also like this deeply relatable sort of like
20:45
awkwardness that even those of us who've never had that
20:47
experience can relate to. And it's just so catchy.
20:50
And there's so much more to discover outside the like, My
20:53
name is Pink. It's really great to meet you.
20:55
So I really was heartened and excited to see the streams on
21:00
that really start to pick up. People weren't just, you know,
21:04
engaging with it on short form and then keeping it pushing,
21:06
they were really leaning forward and engaging with the track
21:09
itself. Cuz I think for me, like the
21:11
TikTok trend, like most people I'd assume, really got me into
21:15
her new project. I've always loved Pink Panthers.
21:17
But like for her latest album, the TikTok trend was my intro to
21:21
this whole era. Totally.
21:23
And like I said, everything I saw, everything I heard, I've
21:26
loved. Yeah, I think it's just so funny
21:29
cuz Pink, there's one of those artists where like the beats and
21:31
the songs are so upbeat and fun, but like the lyrics are actually
21:35
insane. The lyrics are insane.
21:37
She's. She's stalking people.
21:38
Yeah, she's. Like there's one the track
21:41
noises on that project, which which has a stretch and Vern
21:46
sample. Like she's a she's an artist and
21:48
also a curator in the way that she produces because of all the
21:51
layered samples. And she samples Stretch and Vern
21:55
like a UKDJ duo and also Nardo Wick from Who Wants Smoke, but
22:02
not like the most famous part of Who Wants Smoke.
22:04
And she's like describing being like paranoid in her house and
22:09
like alone and hearing noises. And it's just so like every
22:13
millisecond of that song is so meticulously crafted.
22:16
And I think that's really where she shines.
22:18
And you know, you can listen through to it and be like, that
22:22
was a really fun half hour. Or you can listen through to it
22:24
and be like I just heard like 200 different.
22:26
Songs all. Like, layered together and yeah,
22:31
it's sort of like a choose your own adventure.
22:33
Like the best pop albums are, right?
22:35
And I love that. I love that so much.
22:37
Another cool thing about her specifically in the nostalgia
22:41
pieces is that sampling like she she just pulls it all together
22:44
in such a way that it doesn't feel if you know what you're
22:48
looking for, you can get that sense of like 2000s and 90s in
22:52
her music, but you can also just appreciate it for what it is.
22:56
Is a very like contemporary pop album at the same time.
22:59
No, exactly. Like it doesn't feel like you're
23:01
listening to a sample like ripping off of a song that
23:04
already was created. Like we heard a lot of that I
23:08
want to say in the past like five to seven years, we're like
23:12
samples are really popular, not necessarily used in like the
23:15
most creative or innovative ways.
23:19
And I just love to see how we're moving through that.
23:21
And now that the artists right now that are really getting
23:24
their time to sign are incorporating that in such a.
23:27
Totally. I, I do not envy the artists who
23:29
decide they want to use the sample and then have to get in
23:31
the studio and be like, wait, how do I make this mine?
23:34
Like I feel like if I was that artist, I would also lean
23:36
towards like, let's maintain this pristine sample and I'll
23:40
figure out something to do over here.
23:42
But it is really cool when there are artists like Pink Panthers
23:45
or some of the other folks who, to your point, are starting to
23:47
get a little more creative with samples, are able to like,
23:50
respect and, you know, celebrate what it is that they're sampling
23:56
while also, like distilling what's important to them and
23:58
their song and still keeping their artist proposition, the
24:02
music they want to make at the center.
24:04
A. 100% I do have to give my shout outs to my girl Ariana
24:06
Grande. Oh my God.
24:08
The boy is mine. That was, yeah, that was great.
24:12
And then getting Brandy and Monica on the remix.
24:14
Insane. An homage to the Queens.
24:16
Her mind. Yeah.
24:18
And I forget what she did. Was it an interpolation of?
24:21
Yes, that was more of an interpolation.
24:23
Yeah, not a full sample, which I also like, you know, just the
24:26
act of interpolating something rather than sampling it.
24:29
You're adding your own voice. You might change a lyric.
24:32
You might change like the. I think she changed like some of
24:34
the patterns and how she sang it in the chorus, so that's also
24:37
cool. It's like taking more of a fresh
24:39
spin as opposed to just like copying and pasting a sound.
24:43
That's yeah, Which is. Cool, but in some ways it's like
24:47
a cheat code. Right.
24:48
Literally. Here's a melody you already
24:50
like. You love this.
24:51
Here's my voice on top. Let's talk about wrapped cuz rap
24:55
this here. I mean as of posting this rap
24:58
this out, everyone is enjoying getting to see who their top
25:02
artists are and getting into like what they've been listening
25:06
to for the year. I think a lot of times when
25:08
people talk about rapt, of course they're always talking
25:11
about the artists, always talking about like the big
25:12
reveals. And sometimes I know I remember
25:14
a couple of years ago y'all had a rap where it like shows what
25:18
area is. Oh yeah, totally.
25:20
What was the big one? There was one in Vermont.
25:22
I feel like all my friends were in early.
25:23
Yeah. Some random location in like.
25:26
And I was, I didn't. No one else had my city.
25:28
I wish I remembered what it was, but I was like, am I just alone
25:31
out? Here, you want to turn it up in
25:33
Wisconsin? Yeah, it's.
25:35
Like I don't like the. Picture this place I want.
25:38
To be part of the group, yes. But a lot of people wonder, like
25:42
what goes into like curating the Raptors?
25:46
Also that everyone gets like what goes into what goes into
25:48
determining like the rapt analytics from listening
25:51
behaviors to what we're seeing on screen at the end of the
25:53
year. Yeah, totally.
25:54
I mean, the the number one thing that defines RAPT is you.
25:57
Like the amazing thing about RAPT is that its core is this
26:01
deeply personalized experience that helps people.
26:04
You know, I really, when products like this work well, I
26:08
feel really seen by them and it's nice to look back on my
26:12
year month by month and remember what it was that I was listening
26:16
to. So really like at the core of
26:18
Rapt is just your listening behavior and the songs that
26:21
you're playing over and over. In terms of what the editorial
26:25
team works on more in the rap space are playlist.
26:29
And we we have our top tracks playlist, our top artist
26:33
playlist where, you know, you can go and see what everyone was
26:36
streaming this year. This will come out tomorrow.
26:38
So I think it's OK for me to say that Bad Bunny is the global top
26:41
artist. Yes, as you should.
26:44
Probably also my personal top artist, which is a little bit
26:47
mainstream with me, but that's cool.
26:49
That album was unbelievable. You know, like my team puts
26:52
together those lists that showcase, you know, the most
26:55
popular tracks of the year, the most stream tracks of the year.
26:57
But we also have a suite of playlists where we really want
27:01
to take like our unique editorial skill set and that
27:04
bird's eye view we have of everything and put forth what we
27:09
think are like the best songs. SO1 list that I'm really excited
27:13
about this year is our best songs of the year so far list or
27:16
actually it's the best songs of the year list.
27:18
The year is over. We did best songs of the year so
27:21
far back in June as a sort of like teaser, But this is the
27:25
final list that my team puts together.
27:27
And so it's like these ones are the the best, not the most
27:29
streamed, not the most talked about, not the most short form
27:33
videoed, the just best songs. That's a cover your playlist
27:38
right there. Yeah, it's fun.
27:40
We we have had like 4 sessions this year where we just like sit
27:46
in a room and kind of yell at each other about what our
27:49
favorite songs are and showcase this.
27:51
We're like, well, you guys don't know about this.
27:52
Let me put you onto this. And it's really cool.
27:56
We all like, it's a great opportunity for us to get out of
27:59
our like genre shells. And some of the most exciting
28:02
moments in those meetings are when someone brings a track that
28:06
was like, huge in their space. And then we look around the room
28:09
and like, everyone's bobbing their head even, you know, like
28:12
someone who is like, has opposite genre taste profile.
28:14
Like their raps look nothing alike, but they're bobbing their
28:17
heads in tune. That must be so affirming.
28:19
Yeah, no. Kidding.
28:20
I just get I I'm so hyped when people like my music when I'm
28:23
playing. Oh.
28:23
My God, yeah. Like they have a whole room
28:25
bopping to your music. It's.
28:26
Pretty nice. I have taste.
28:27
Yeah, it's. Pretty nice.
28:29
I mean, it's this is like, you know, one of the fun parts of
28:32
being a music creator is you're just on aux a lot and you're,
28:35
you know, obviously we're on aux to the listeners of our
28:38
playlist, but we don't usually, we don't actually see their
28:42
reaction. So it's cool to be in a room
28:44
with each other and, you know, play something that we're really
28:46
excited about and get a cool reaction.
28:48
And I'm really excited about where the list wound up this
28:51
year. So highly recommend.
28:52
I'm excited to check that out. And yeah, we have a number of
28:55
other editorial lists We have, you know, our our best pop songs
28:59
again, not about like most streamed or most shared, just
29:02
like, what are, you know, what are the most distinctive, like,
29:06
musically interesting like and just like perfectly situated and
29:11
relevant to the genre zeitgeist tracks in a specific space.
29:15
And we also have if you like pop sauce, you'll probably like pop
29:19
songs you may have missed, which is all just like.
29:22
All the smaller stuff, yeah. You probably know a lot of them,
29:27
but the idea is that we want to showcase some of like the best
29:30
pop songs of the year that people might not have come
29:32
across. So Wrapped is really cool
29:34
because there's that personal element where you're sharing
29:36
stuff that you love and you've already, you know, found and
29:40
like formed an affinity 2. So we want to provide a space
29:44
where folks are like both engaging with their own
29:47
personalized raps and also maybe taking the time to discover
29:50
something new, you know, while we're all here excited about
29:53
music, try out best. Songs.
29:55
I haven't seen mine yet but I'm hoping that Ariana's at the top
29:58
spot cuz she's she. Usually she's your number one.
30:00
She's been my #1 like, across like all of the streaming
30:03
platforms for like the past five years.
30:05
Wow. Yeah.
30:06
What's your favorite Ariana album?
30:09
That's a hard. One I know I.
30:10
Think right now I turn to sunshine.
30:13
So good, but prior to sweetener. Two amazing projects.
30:19
OK, we can. Let's talk about this.
30:21
How do you define a global hit? We're talking about some of the
30:23
best songs of the year. What is a global hit to you and
30:26
what does that mean? So the definition of a global
30:29
hit used to be a little bit more straightforward when, you know,
30:33
the music industry was more of a monoculture and they're
30:36
everything was dominated by, you know, the the Top 40.
30:40
It was more radio driven. I think in the last 10 years
30:44
we've experienced this, the streaming era really, and the
30:48
changes that it's had on the music landscape.
30:51
One of those changes is that in line with culture more broadly,
30:54
music is no longer a monoculture.
30:57
There are a ton like endless different niche scenes and
31:00
audiences. You can do crazy numbers, but
31:04
like never make a dent outside of your home market or you can
31:08
do very small numbers, but still like have a footprint in all
31:12
these different like interesting audiences.
31:14
So when we're talking about a global hit in 2025, we kind of
31:18
want to see both. Like we want, we want to see
31:22
obviously like a good number of organic streams.
31:25
Like we want to, you know, when you talk about a hit, that does
31:28
mean like a lot of people are streaming it traditionally.
31:31
But we also want to see some level of crossing into different
31:36
audiences, whether you're an R&B artist who's, you know, starting
31:40
to have a footprint in alternative music or whether
31:43
you're an artist from Colombia who started to have some export
31:47
success in Spain. Like, we want to see or how I
31:52
would define a global hit as a track that's able to push beyond
31:56
the boundaries of whatever the core audience is and start to
31:59
gain traction in different audiences, different markets,
32:03
different, you know, genre discourses start to like, cotton
32:07
on to that artist. That's so interesting because
32:10
that means that like, having a global hit now is arguably more
32:14
difficult than it was in the. Past definitely, I think it's
32:18
yeah, I think it's fair to say that that's definitely true
32:21
because there's also just such an unbelievable volume of music
32:24
coming out every day. Everyone's attention is quite
32:27
divided in general. So like getting someone to
32:29
really connect to a song to the degree that they're streaming it
32:33
a lot, sharing it with their friends and really incorporating
32:35
it into their lives. And the way that you would want
32:37
to hit to be incorporated into your life is is really
32:41
challenging. So it's definitely a hard time
32:43
to breakthrough, but when those moments happen, it's just really
32:47
cool. That must be amazing.
32:49
I talk about on the channel all the time about how we don't
32:52
really live in a monoculture anymore with our pop culture in
32:54
our media and sort of to that point, like how back in the day
32:58
you'd all everyone know like the same artist.
33:01
Everyone know the same, honestly, like influencers.
33:03
But now because everything is so niche down and personalized,
33:07
it's harder for artists to necessarily breakthrough and
33:10
have like that mainstream appeal.
33:12
And I feel like a lot of people say that like, it used to be
33:14
harder back in the day today to have like a mainstream hit
33:17
because you have like the levers of like the industry, the
33:21
different record labels and stuff like that, that were the
33:23
gatekeepers to like a different artist success.
33:26
But I'd argue that it's harder now because the power is in the
33:29
people. And like you can, you can't have
33:33
a global hit without making genuine good music that connects
33:35
with a global audience. So.
33:36
Yeah, I think they're also like, it's there's just such a there
33:40
are really very few limits on music now.
33:42
Like language is less of a limit than it's ever been.
33:47
You know, there are so many artists who particularly from
33:50
the Latin space that have so much success based purely on
33:53
being like a great vibe and. Fantastic.
33:55
Music and it doesn't really matter to the audiences that
34:00
they don't understand the lyrics.
34:03
Same it's true for a lot of K pop artists who like are
34:06
connecting with folks while using little to no English
34:10
because the phantom communities are so strong and the music is
34:13
so interesting and like provokes an emotional response in people
34:17
that is really real. So I think it's a really
34:20
exciting time. And I would also note that as
34:22
much as I love a global hit, I'm a big mainstream girl.
34:25
I love if, if everyone's talking about something, like I said
34:29
before, I want to be part of the group.
34:32
So I like even if it's not something that like I'm
34:34
immediately drawn to, I think anything that a bunch of people
34:37
are engaging with is worth study at least to understand and get
34:41
to the bottom of it. But I but so even though I am
34:45
such a, you know, fan of hits, I'm also interested in different
34:49
ways that artists can find success outside of like the
34:52
traditional, like this is a hit, everyone's listening to it.
34:55
We're a monoculture. There's no other, you know,
34:58
there's no other place you can go.
35:00
There are actually so many different ways that artists can
35:03
carve out lanes and success for themselves that may or may not
35:07
have some element of commercial success.
35:09
So it's really cool to see that start to happen as well because
35:12
that's something that, you know, maybe it was easier to hit the
35:15
right buttons and get a global hit, you know, a few decades
35:19
ago, but it was way harder to just get your music out there if
35:23
you didn't have a record deal or.
35:25
Yeah, and now the power is in your hands.
35:28
Like yeah, exactly. You have a hit TikTok trend, of
35:30
course, like we're talking about like it's not just like the
35:32
viral hit if it actually connects with people and is able
35:35
to expand beyond that, but like the ability for you to do that
35:37
just from like your bedroom. And we've seen so many artists
35:39
do that. Like a lot of the main like pop
35:42
acts and general acts right now came from social media over the
35:46
past couple years like that. That's what it's all about.
35:48
Then as now, it is really hard to be a musician.
35:51
It's hard to carve out your own lane and find your own sound.
35:55
But I think at the core of it is making really, really great,
36:00
like undeniably great music and music that will connect to an
36:03
audience, you know, that that hasn't changed over all these
36:08
decades. And I think that's important
36:10
that that's the through line. Yeah, when we're talking about
36:13
this year in music and getting back to Wrapped, there's always
36:16
a lot of voices, a lot of criticism about RAPT and like
36:20
people's results. Like even though it's their
36:22
listening habits. How do you know that you've done
36:24
or Spotify or you guys have done RAPT, right?
36:26
And what changes have you made this year to improve the RAPT
36:29
experience in 2025? Yeah.
36:31
So I mean, in terms of how we know whether RAPT is a success,
36:35
you'll tell us. I think one of the great things
36:38
about RAPT is that we get a lot of direct feedback right away,
36:41
which isn't always the case for initiatives that Spotify rolls
36:45
out. Because RAPT is so social, so
36:47
interactive and so well known, we'll get that feedback.
36:51
So I think we'll know this time tomorrow in terms of the changes
36:56
that we've made. I'm really excited about some of
36:59
the new factors. We're talking more about albums.
37:03
I love albums. I think the album format is
37:05
still a really important artistic statement.
37:08
For. An artist to make Yeah.
37:10
And you know, in this in these bite sized times, not always
37:15
easy to drive people to a full album, but there are some album
37:19
elements this year that I hope people enjoy.
37:23
And there are a couple of other like more like delightful.
37:28
What? What club are you in?
37:29
Like what listing group are you in?
37:31
I forget the nomenclature exactly, but I think that's also
37:35
really cool. I think there's been like a
37:37
visual revamp that is really nice and some more like
37:41
technical adjustments like making it vertical scrolls is
37:44
kind of like fun fun, and that's what.
37:47
We do, right? Our thumbs are going up and
37:49
down. They're not going side to side
37:50
anymore. So I think there's some really
37:54
interesting strides and I love that we're focusing in not just
38:00
on the user and the user's journey, but also and the music
38:04
itself. And it's really a celebration of
38:07
all these different corners of music culture.
38:09
Whether you're an artist or a user or an editor at Spotify,
38:14
it's nice to take a step back and be like, wow, we did it,
38:17
Year of music. No, cuz so much music gets
38:20
released every single year and I think it's great that we take
38:24
time to like reflect on that and look back on that because I
38:28
don't think a single year should go by where we don't appreciate
38:31
the artists and as well as the listeners for the year of
38:35
contribution. Well, thank you so, so much for
38:37
being on the channel. Is there anything that you'd
38:39
like to promote? You know, music is great.
38:42
Go listen to music. Let's go.
38:45
Let's get ready for more music in 2026.
38:48
Yay. Music.
38:49
Go music. Hey, don't.
38:51
Stop listening to music everyone.
38:55
Well, thank you so much. This was amazing.
38:57
Of course.