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Divorce Is Hard And... That Doesn't Mean You Should Stay Married · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast, finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there in soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans, moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to this week's episode of the podcast, which I've called Divorce is Hard, and that doesn't mean you shouldn't choose it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's about deciding to leave a marriage and me offering you what I know.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Over the last few years, I've supported so many clients to successfully navigate their separation and to divorce in more healthy ways, to move through those sticky hard parts, to have the challenging conversations, and to deal with all the financial, legal, social, emotional aspects of separation and divorce to reset, reclaim, and liberate, and then create a new life.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if they've got kids, a new way of being a family.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So from my own lived experience of divorce, my own personal experience and my reorganization of life afterwards, as well as the experience of all of my clients, this is what I know.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I've learned to be universal about deciding to leave a marriage and divorce.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing is you don't need permission.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need anyone else's permission to make the decision, you don't need anyone else's permission to choose to leave, you don't need anyone else's permission to choose you, you don't need anyone else's permission.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: You also don't need permission for anyone else around you about how you personally navigate your own divorce.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's no right or wrong way to feel.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is your unique journey.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need anyone else's permission on how you personally navigate your divorce, what you what you're feeling, how you're moving through it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's experience is unique and deeply personal, so don't take advice or particularly unsolicited advice from anyone else, especially if they've never been through it themselves, about how you should be doing things or what you should be thinking or what you should be feeling.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: For some of my clients, it feels right to throw a divorce party, you know, celebrating the newfound freedom, the release, and the start of a new chapter in their lives, and it can be really empowering and extremely cathartic to do that.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, an opportunity to gather friends and family to thank their support crew and to mark the end of one of the hardest seasons of life.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if this is something that you're thinking about, I encourage you to listen to the episode of the podcast with my gorgeous friend and guest Vanessa about her version of a divorce party.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: For other clients of mine, the experience of divorce can feel like you know the rug's been pulled out from under them.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's completely destabilizing, and they they grieve deeply and take a long time to process and accept and understand and then to embrace the new, to then see it as an opportunity that they've got to create something different for themselves.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they are certainly not in celebration mode.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this can be true even if they know it's the right decision, and even if they actively chose the decision, if they were the ones to choose to leave, there can still be grief and a sense of loss and pain and deep, deep sadness.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no right or wrong way to feel whether you choose to celebrate or to grieve, or most likely a mixture of both.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important to honour your own emotions and process them in your own way and on your timeline.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is your unique journey.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Embrace it with self-compassion, allow yourself to feel whatever comes up for you without making any of it wrong and without letting anyone else dictate what you should feel or your timeline.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's your divorce your way.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing I know to be universally true is that your children will more than likely be okay.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean really, they will be okay.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's completely normal to worry about them and they will be okay, provided you are mostly okay.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Kids are resilient and they often handle change better than we anticipate, and it's not so much divorce that impacts kids, it's the conflict between their parents, and if that is unavoidable, because let's face it, sometimes it is, it's coming at you from the other side, and you've got no choice.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: If the conflict is unavoidable, then it is how you show up in that conflict and how you show them ways to manage it in the most healthy possible way.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So kids are resilient, they will often handle big changes like this better than we anticipate, and they will learn from you and how you navigate your divorce.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: They will learn how to do really, really hard things and come out the other side.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So be their safe space, give them a stable, loving, and open environment, and they will be okay.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: I know it sounds impossible, but it's true when I say if you are mostly okay, they will also be okay.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: The research shows that kids only need one healthy functioning parent to come through stuff like this and thrive on the other side.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the well-being of children or the capacity I think of children to thrive is dependent on their mother's well-being.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are a mum, know that your well-being is important, yes, to you, but it's also important to your kids.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a father, make sure the mother of your kids is well cared for so she can make sure your kids will thrive afterwards.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not convinced, go back and have a listen.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Tune into one of my most popular podcast episodes where my own daughter Eva is welcomed on as a guest and she shares her experience of her dad's and my separation and divorce and life into households afterwards.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: So many of you I know have already listened because I've got so many messages to say that hearing her story and in her own words was exactly what they needed to feel reassured and to know that should they choose to leave, if they're moving through divorce, they're not messing up their kids forever.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I know from both my own personal lived experience, my family's experience, the experience of my kids, as well as the kids of so many clients that I've coached, your kids will be okay.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing I know to be true about divorce is it is best for everyone involved if you stay out of court if you possibly can.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I say if you possibly can.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you can settle things amicably between the two of you, round the kitchen table, with a mediator, however that looks, if you can settle things in mediation, it's almost always better for everyone.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Mediation allows the both of you to retain some sort of control over the decision-making process and not hand over the decision-making to a judge who doesn't know you, doesn't know your kids, doesn't know your unique family circumstances, and is just deciding based on law.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Law doesn't always look at the humanity of a situation.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So stay out of court if you possibly can.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: It can also help you to preserve the relationship to a degree because especially when children are involved, you're going to have an ongoing connection with this other person.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it can help preserve the relationship to a degree which enables you to create a more amicable, collaborative, cooperative parenting relationship for the future, which is also in the best interest of your kids.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, big feelings are going to be present while you navigate this stuff and mediate and negotiate your property settlement and your child caring arrangements.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And mediation does allow space for that, it allows space for big feelings to be present while also advocating for a more peaceful pathway and a win-win outcome.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Mediation can help both of you feel more heard and respected and understood.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can come up with creative ways that best serve your family.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can stay out of court, do it if you possibly can.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can't, if you can't stay out of court or away from lawyers, and it escalates to a point where you need intervention and you need support and you need help, you haven't failed.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know I talk a lot about a kind divorce and a collaborative pathway and an amicable pathway, but it is not possible for everybody.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can't stay out of court, you can't stay away from the lawyers, you haven't failed.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it just has to be that way.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing I know to be universally true for every single person navigating separation and divorce is your emotions are all allowed.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to be angry, you're allowed to be scared, you're allowed to be sad, you're allowed to feel jealous, you're allowed to feel ripped off, all the things.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you're allowed to feel those feelings even if you're the one who chose to leave.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you were the one to call it.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: You are allowed to be angry, sad, scared, feel ripped off, whatever it is.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: If the things I'm talking about in this podcast episode are resonating with you and you want to explore deeper support with me, you can book a free intro call via the link in the show notes.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can also sign up for the wait list for my group coaching program, Decide and Thrive, so you will be first to know when I next launch that program.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Every single one of my clients experiences the range, multiple emotions, usually many competing ones, often at the same time, and regulating them is a really big part of our work together.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So know that it's a completely normal experience to be feeling a whirlwind of conflicting emotions and to swing from one to the other and then back again.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, again, even if you were the one to end the relationship.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Outsiders, other people can be really quick to jump in, offer their unsolicited, unwelcome advice, as I said at the beginning of the episode, and as I say regularly, and to tell you what you should and should not be feeling.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: That you know you ended it, so why are you sad?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's layered, it's nuanced, it's a whole range of things, right?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole lot involved in that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So allow all your emotions.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: You are allowed to feel whatever it is you feel.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing I know to be true about divorce is that you don't always know what you're actually made of until this happens.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't actually know what you're made of, how strong you are, what that inner core strength and tenacity and resilience looks like until you have to go through this, until you have to perhaps negotiate with the person that you least want to speak to, that you'd rather never speak to again.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Divorce will and can and will absolutely test your limits.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: It will push you and pull you and test you in ways you might never have imagined, but it also reveals, it reveals you.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: It reveals your strength, your inner power, your inner wisdom, your inner knowing.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: It stretches your ex your resilience and it expands you in ways that you might not ever imagined you could expand.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: It expands and stretches and forces you to grow into a new version of yourself.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: But know this also, you will get through it and your life will be yours again.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: This right now, this won't be your reality forever.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that's to I know that to be true.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, even if there are kids involved, you might have to continue to engage and interact with this person, but it won't be this hard all the time.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: So allow yourself to feel whatever comes up without making any of it wrong.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing I know about divorce is you need to center yourself.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Center yourself and advocate fiercely on your own behalf for your long-term needs.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Think future.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't make decisions for here and now.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Think about how these decisions will play out and impact you in the future.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Center yourself in that future and advocate fiercely for that version of you as well as the current version of you.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Keep yourself at the core of every single decision, big and small.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Don't allow yourself to be pulled off, pulled offline, derailed by what's coming at you from outside, what's coming at you from the other side.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Stay calm, stay centered, and stay focused on that future version of you, that future version of your life.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So know how to center yourself, know how to regulate your nervous system, know how to center yourself in the decision-making process and advocate fiercely on your own behalf.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for some of my clients, that looked like a more equitable property settlement, even hundreds of thousands of dollars extra because they've been able to center themselves and fiercely advocate on their own behalf.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: For others, it looks like a more child-focused parenting arrangement that truly prioritizes and reflects what their children most need.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: It reflects the well-being and needs of their children.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, whatever that looks like for you, whatever it looks like for you, make sure your decisions align with your values and your long-term goals and the vision you have for your future and keep yourself at the center of all the decisions, big ones, small ones.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Centering yourself in the process also looks like prioritizing your needs and backing them up with aligned action and also with a team of professionals, experts who can get stuff done for you.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Part of what I do with my one-to-one clients is connect them with values-aligned, trusted advisors that I know will help that client center themselves, maintain themselves in the center of all their decisions, and be focused on the future that that client wants for themselves.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Financial, legal, real estate, health and well-being, whatever they need.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: It might be a family lawyer, it might be a naturopath, whatever they need to support them, to maintain their capacity to center themselves, to regulate themselves, and to advocate for themselves, to support them and help them get their best possible outcome.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So center yourself and surround yourself with people, both personal and professional, who remind you to do that.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: They remind you to center yourself, they remind you of your own strength and they support you in creating your best possible outcome.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Without judgment, without overlaying what they think you should be doing, they support you in your vision.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know from personal experience as well as coaching experience that having that supportive network is just invaluable.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: It can literally be a lifeline at times.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I actively encourage all of my clients to build theirs, to consciously curate it and carefully and fiercely protect it so that they can center themselves and they've got this beautiful circle wrapping around them, professional, personal, supporting them and supporting their vision for their own life.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: So seek out your circle, friends, family members who believe in you, who uplift you, those who will listen without judgment, who will give you the shoulder to cry on and pick you up off the bathroom floor when you need it.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: They will also celebrate your victories, no matter how small, and who will lovingly hold you accountable to yourself, to your vision for yourself, and they'll call you out on bullshit, your bullshit, if they need to.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: They'll do it lovingly and kindly and gently, but they'll call you out on your own bullshit.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And professionally, of course, I'm gonna say build your team.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Legal, financial, emotional, psychosocial support is important.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Having someone to hold your hand to steer you through and make sure you don't make big or costly mistakes.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'm gonna say work with me, work with a coach, me or someone else, but of course, I'd love to support you.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Build that professional team around you.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: My role, of course, as a divorce coach and strategist is to be your wingwoman through it all.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: That safe space, confidant, cheerleader, your biggest advocate, fiercest advocate, keeping you centered and a soft place to land when things go a bit wobbly, and someone to rant and rail at when you would really rather rant and rail at your ex-partner.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also, of course, help you understand and navigate the family law system and get your version, your best possible outcome, so you can get through this faster, more cost-effectively, and with less drama, less negative impact.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: My aim is to save you all the things time, energy, heartache, and money.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So whoever you bring in, cultivate a circle of support that reinforces you, your inner strength.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Bring in people who see that in you and can fan the flame of that inner strength.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: People who empower, uplift and support you, and who fill the blanks for you, who give you what you don't have, or can teach or show or guide you in terms of what you what you don't already have, what you need, and who encourage you really encourages you to focus on both your own well-being and your future.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Lean on those who believe in your ability to overcome the hard stuff, to get through the hard stuff and to thrive.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Divorce is hard, right?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to sugarcoat it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Divorce is hard, and that doesn't mean you should have stayed married or that you should stay married.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Divorce is hard and it doesn't mean you should stay.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: The challenges, the hard parts, the big emotions, none of that invalidates your decision to leave, to end a relationship.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the right choices for us are also the hardest and most heartbreaking ones.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So whether that's for you leaving someone you still love but who you know as a couple, you're not capable of forming a healthy relationship, leaving someone you still love but who is not capable, able or willing to make the changes that need to be made to form a healthy relationship with you.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe that means letting go of your dream to have children, or maybe it means spending less time with the children you do have.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or it could mean leaving behind that much-loved family home that you've built and renovated and decorated together, or you know, it's just really practical and tangible, like leaving the comfort of a dual-income household.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever it looks like for you, it's hard.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's also layered and nuanced.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, honestly, divorce is hard and parts of it hurt.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: They hurt like nothing else you've ever experienced.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: There will be moments of pain, there will be frustration, there will be doubt, there will be all of that.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Parts of divorce really, really, really suck.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: But the life you choose and consciously create for yourself afterwards does not have to suck.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: It can be really, really fucking amazing.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the best part, it gets to be all yours.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: All yours.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you're wondering whether to stay or leave, whether your partner has just told you that it's over, whether you're asking the hard questions, navigating separation, divorce already, I want you to know that there's good stuff on the other side.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Get through the hard, and there is good stuff waiting for you.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you have taken something from this episode.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, bye for now.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim, and Liberate.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Until then