Latest / Pursuit of Sassiness / Taylor Armstrong Gets Her I Do Part 2

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Taylor Armstrong Gets Her I Do Part 2 · Pursuit of Sassiness

0:00
Speaker 1: Some listeners may find this content disturbing. This episode discusses
0:03
Speaker 1: domestic abuse as well as suicide. Please proceed with caution.
0:07
Speaker 1: This is Taylor Armstrong in her own.
0:09
Speaker 2: Words, Taylor, thank you for continuing to show your story. So,
0:32
Speaker 2: now it happens, you've been out it and you talk
0:37
Speaker 2: to your friend, We're going to have to tell him.
0:38
Speaker 1: So what happens then? So we start going to couples
0:41
Speaker 1: counseling with doctor Sophie at doctor Sophie's urging, and well,
0:45
Speaker 1: I let doctor Sophie Sophie urge Russell into it, and
0:49
Speaker 1: so we started going and slowly doctor Sophie was He's
0:54
Speaker 1: so amazing. But he would say, Okay, you know there's
0:59
Speaker 1: talk around town that there's some things going on, and
1:03
Speaker 1: you know, Russell, let's talk about this and is there
1:06
Speaker 1: any reality to that? And so he did it in
1:09
Speaker 1: such a slow way that it didn't seem like he
1:13
Speaker 1: was going to get ambushed on the show. It was
1:15
Speaker 1: just you know, there's people talking around town and I
1:18
Speaker 1: don't know are these things true? And he created a
1:21
Speaker 1: safety plan for us where he so with our landline phones.
1:25
Speaker 1: But like if you too start to get in an argument,
1:28
Speaker 1: then you need to go into two separate rooms in
1:31
Speaker 1: the house and both get on the phone with me
1:33
Speaker 1: and we'll talk through it.
1:35
Speaker 2: I can't believe Russel was even open to talking to
1:37
Speaker 2: this person, much less like coming up with any kind
1:40
Speaker 2: of strategy. I mean, it's that he would even have
1:44
Speaker 2: this self awareness to be open to like, you know,
1:48
Speaker 2: this has to change.
1:50
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he was open to this has to change,
1:52
Speaker 1: but he was definitely. I think that Doctor Sophie is
1:55
Speaker 1: saying things like, you know, there's people that are talking.
1:58
Speaker 1: I'm more worried about this. He's getting discovered. Perception of
2:02
Speaker 1: him before we finally told him, you know, it's it's
2:05
Speaker 1: coming out on the show.
2:08
Speaker 2: And how to go once he told him, once he
2:10
Speaker 2: really knew.
2:12
Speaker 1: I think he was scared. I mean, it was, of
2:14
Speaker 1: course angry as can be and in denial and then litigious.
2:23
Speaker 1: He started, you know, firing off emails to Evolution, which
2:27
Speaker 1: I was aware of, and then he sent one to
2:30
Speaker 1: Camille also threatening a lawsuit or whatever. I didn't know
2:36
Speaker 1: about that one, but I knew about the Evolution one,
2:38
Speaker 1: and I think he at that point he was in
2:42
Speaker 1: panic mode, thinking that he could somehow keep it off
2:45
Speaker 1: the show. Which we both still How was the at
2:48
Speaker 1: that point? What was the abuse?
2:50
Speaker 2: Like the physical abuse was still happening even though he'd
2:52
Speaker 2: been How did I know that the abuse obviously still happened?
2:56
Speaker 1: But was he still was it still physical? Wasn't he?
2:59
Speaker 1: Was he more concerned now that he'd been outed? He
3:02
Speaker 1: that it matters? I guess, But well, no, you know,
3:05
Speaker 1: I don't feel like the ranting got any better. Maybe
3:09
Speaker 1: it even got worse, because it would be like him
3:11
Speaker 1: blaming me for now potentially destroying his career from this
3:16
Speaker 1: being on his reputation, so definitely, so a lot of that,
3:21
Speaker 1: and well, I mean, ultimately you know how all of
3:24
Speaker 1: it ends.
3:24
Speaker 2: Well, it's you're I can't believe you're such an open book.
3:29
Speaker 2: I think it's whatever. It's so great, but whatever. To
3:33
Speaker 2: like just is it's kind of shocking how much you're
3:36
Speaker 2: willing to talk about it. Because again, like as a viewer,
3:40
Speaker 2: you I felt like I was watching it and somehow
3:44
Speaker 2: like getting it, but I didn't get it at all
3:47
Speaker 2: as a viewer of reality television, like this discussion is
3:50
Speaker 2: so different than and I knew I was watching the
3:55
Speaker 2: episode when Camille said what she said, and so it
3:57
Speaker 2: was the shock, but like the details of it are
3:59
Speaker 2: just so horrible. So so okay, so you get divorced
4:05
Speaker 2: or you obviously you file for divorce, and yes, of
4:09
Speaker 2: course I know what happened. Next Russell commits suicide, right right,
4:12
Speaker 2: So I mean I don't even know.
4:14
Speaker 1: So I hadn't filed for divorce, then you hadn't. No, no,
4:17
Speaker 1: So let's see. So it was my the last time
4:24
Speaker 1: he hit me, it was my birthday and we had
4:26
Speaker 1: thrown a huge party and that day we were checking
4:32
Speaker 1: we checked into a hotel in Beverly Hills and he
4:35
Speaker 1: gave me like all these gifts, and he wrote me
4:37
Speaker 1: a card and it was like a front and a
4:40
Speaker 1: back of a card, and it was all about how
4:43
Speaker 1: he was going to change, and he knew that, you know,
4:46
Speaker 1: he hadn't been a good husband to me, and he
4:47
Speaker 1: had never done anything like that. And you hear people
4:50
Speaker 1: talk about the honeymoon phase after someone's abusive to you
4:52
Speaker 1: and then they're super nice to your bringing roses the
4:54
Speaker 1: next day. He was not like that with me. There
4:56
Speaker 1: was no honeymoon phase. So he would be abusive and
4:59
Speaker 1: then or or whatever, but then the next day it
5:01
Speaker 1: was no remorse. Now we definitely did not have that
5:04
Speaker 1: honeymoon face. So when I saw that happen on my birthday,
5:07
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, maybe things aren't going to change because
5:10
Speaker 1: I've never seen this side of him. Maybe he really
5:13
Speaker 1: is going to be the good person that I know
5:15
Speaker 1: he can be. And it gave me so much hope.
5:17
Speaker 1: And so then we went to my birthday party. So
5:20
Speaker 1: we checked in the hotel, he gives me the gifts
5:21
Speaker 1: in the card, and then we went to my birthday party,
5:25
Speaker 1: had a great time, and Lisa vander Pump's daughter had
5:29
Speaker 1: just gotten had her bachelorette party on the show, and
5:33
Speaker 1: we went to Vegas and we went to the Chip
5:35
Speaker 1: and Dale's. You know, it was just silly and we
5:37
Speaker 1: got up on stage and you know, they're all oiled
5:39
Speaker 1: up and it was, you know, twenty year old girls
5:42
Speaker 1: bachelorette party, and we were filming the whole thing, obviously.
5:45
Speaker 1: So we go to the birthday party, we have a blast.
5:48
Speaker 1: We get back to the room, we're in bed and
5:52
Speaker 1: he says, I know you slept with the Chippendales in Vegas,
5:57
Speaker 1: and I was like, what are you talking about out
6:01
Speaker 1: and it was just like unfathomable. I thought, wait, It's
6:05
Speaker 1: only been like a matter of hours since he said
6:07
Speaker 1: he's not going to be this person again, and it's
6:09
Speaker 1: my birthday and he's already back to being this person.
6:13
Speaker 1: And he's just braiding me, and you know, saying how
6:16
Speaker 1: what a slut I am and all, you know, all
6:18
Speaker 1: those kinds of things. And I mean, first of all,
6:20
Speaker 1: this is absolutely ridiculous. I'm gonna go sleep with the
6:22
Speaker 1: Chip and Down and you were filming the show. I mean,
6:25
Speaker 1: the whole thing was I just like, are you sarious?
6:27
Speaker 1: Like we're not really going here, are we? This is ridiculous,
6:30
Speaker 1: This is absurd. I mean I was with Lisa, like
6:33
Speaker 1: and then I'm just explaining everything when I shouldn't even have.
6:35
Speaker 1: I should have just been like, I'm not having this
6:37
Speaker 1: conversation with you, but that wouldn't work with him.
6:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just I mean, because it was always probably
6:41
Speaker 2: I mean this, yes, obviously it would be absurd to
6:43
Speaker 2: think of you having you're with the Chippingdales guy, but
6:45
Speaker 2: it was always absurd, like you had fourteen dollars of coffee,
6:48
Speaker 2: so you you know, it's like, so you get to
6:50
Speaker 2: the point where you know it's not going to help
6:52
Speaker 2: try to explain it away, right, It's like, doesn't matter
6:55
Speaker 2: what you say at this point. He wants to rageolutely.
7:01
Speaker 1: And so it just he just escalated and then he
7:05
Speaker 1: rose up in bed and he punched me in the face.
7:08
Speaker 1: And because my head, I didn't have anywhere from my
7:11
Speaker 1: head to go back, you know, because I was laying
7:12
Speaker 1: flat down in the bed. So that's when he fractured
7:15
Speaker 1: my orbital floor. So then I your orbital floor, so
7:19
Speaker 1: if you look at your skull and where the eye
7:22
Speaker 1: socket would be, underneath, there is the orbital floor holds
7:26
Speaker 1: or the orbit of your eye. So he fractured that,
7:29
Speaker 1: which is actually and I believe it was Mayweather who
7:33
Speaker 1: had that injury in a boxing match, but it's it's
7:36
Speaker 1: a common, you know, injury with with that area. But yeah,
7:40
Speaker 1: so he fractured my orbital floor, and then that I
7:43
Speaker 1: went to see.
7:45
Speaker 2: You call the the guymond one was it?
7:50
Speaker 1: And at first I thought, Okay, it's not a big deal.
7:53
Speaker 1: And then the next day when I would move my
7:55
Speaker 1: eye around, it was like pinching underneath because the fracture
7:59
Speaker 1: so like the so my eye was getting kind of
8:01
Speaker 1: stuck in it, and so I went I had just
8:04
Speaker 1: had lasick and I could was having trouble seeing out
8:08
Speaker 1: of that eye a little bit. It was like blurry.
8:11
Speaker 1: So I went to see Carrie, as was my doctor
8:14
Speaker 1: at the time, who did my lay sick because my
8:17
Speaker 1: and they told me my flap was wrinkled and so
8:20
Speaker 1: they were going to have to try to do a
8:22
Speaker 1: repair on it. And he said, this is interesting. So
8:25
Speaker 1: Russell went with me and he said he did. Yeah.
8:28
Speaker 1: So he said, the doctor said, how does this happen?
8:32
Speaker 1: And Russell had told me, tell him you were pushing
8:34
Speaker 1: Kennedy on a swing and she kicked you. And so
8:37
Speaker 1: I told the doctor that and the doctor said, really,
8:40
Speaker 1: what kind of doctor like he would even say to
8:42
Speaker 1: you and that.
8:44
Speaker 2: You you like kind of work with him to make
8:48
Speaker 2: up the lie. To the doctor, I feel like I'm
8:52
Speaker 2: he I feel like I'm Drew Barrymore because every time
8:54
Speaker 2: you see her on a talk show, she's like this,
8:57
Speaker 2: but it's just the stories.
8:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, crazy, so go on, yeah, so no, no. So
9:02
Speaker 1: the doctor said, well, what kind of shoes does Kennedy wear?
9:05
Speaker 1: And he knew yeah, And I said, well at tennis
9:08
Speaker 1: shoes And he's like, oh, okay, were you pushing her
9:11
Speaker 1: from the front of the show. Come on. Is it
9:13
Speaker 1: just a laced doctor.
9:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's like, oh, were you pushing her from
9:17
Speaker 2: the front of the russe standing there?
9:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the doctor was like okay, like and just
9:23
Speaker 1: kind of like all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna let
9:25
Speaker 1: you I'm gonna let you go with this. But this
9:27
Speaker 1: is bullsh He goes, well, I'll tell you this. I've
9:29
Speaker 1: only had to do a flap repair one other time,
9:32
Speaker 1: and it's from a police officer that was arresting someone
9:35
Speaker 1: and got punched in the face. Were you scared when
9:39
Speaker 1: he said it? Russell was there? Oh? Yeah, But at
9:42
Speaker 1: the same time he said it very purposely obviously, yeah.
9:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
9:47
Speaker 1: And how did Rustle react to Oh? Nothing, I mean
9:50
Speaker 1: he was good. He could be you know, poker face
9:52
Speaker 1: on all of it. So then I went to go
9:55
Speaker 1: see the ocular plastic surgeon and this is how this
9:58
Speaker 1: is how horrible it is when you're in these situations.
10:02
Speaker 1: So after all the injuries that he that I had
10:05
Speaker 1: gone through with him, I go to get the radiography
10:10
Speaker 1: back on my eye and now I can see the
10:13
Speaker 1: orbital floor fracture and they're telling me I'm gonna have
10:15
Speaker 1: to have reconstructive surgery. Have a titanium implant in my
10:18
Speaker 1: orbit now. And it wasn't until that moment that I
10:23
Speaker 1: confirmed for myself that I was being abused. It literally
10:27
Speaker 1: looked took me looking at an X ray of a
10:30
Speaker 1: fracture in my face to go, I'm being abused and
10:34
Speaker 1: not talking myself back out of it. So once that happened,
10:39
Speaker 1: I asked him to move out, and he completely changed.
10:45
Speaker 1: It was so fascinating. One of my friends of years
10:48
Speaker 1: prior said to me, if you just stand up to him,
10:52
Speaker 1: he'll start backing down. But you just being the weak
10:55
Speaker 1: one all the time. But I was too afraid to
10:57
Speaker 1: stand up to him. So once he moved out, he
11:00
Speaker 1: started becoming like so willing to do anything to put
11:06
Speaker 1: things back together to keep me. So now it's public,
11:10
Speaker 1: right because I was filming the show when he fractured
11:13
Speaker 1: my robttal floor. But now I have to have reconstructive surgery,
11:16
Speaker 1: so I have to let the producers know I'm going
11:20
Speaker 1: to be out, you know with this.
11:22
Speaker 2: So he when you finally said and you saw it,
11:28
Speaker 2: almost see a picture. It just be outside of yourself, right,
11:30
Speaker 2: see it? That's what it feels like you're saying, like
11:32
Speaker 2: actually see it, like proof there. It is black and
11:35
Speaker 2: white in a picture. But so were you still scared,
11:39
Speaker 2: Like so now you say move out, it's over. Once
11:43
Speaker 2: you realized it for yourself and you said this is
11:46
Speaker 2: I'm done with this, were you still afraid of him? Yeah?
11:50
Speaker 1: I was afraid because you know, when well with control,
11:53
Speaker 1: with abusers, which it's all about control, right, So when
11:56
Speaker 1: you finally decide to leave, it is the most dangerous
11:59
Speaker 1: time abuse her because now they've lost all control and
12:03
Speaker 1: they've lost everything that was giving them their power. So
12:07
Speaker 1: when he moved out, I slept with one eye open,
12:10
Speaker 1: you know, and always made sure the alarms were on.
12:12
Speaker 1: And Julie was there with me and my assistant and
12:15
Speaker 1: I had to live in nanny so she was there.
12:17
Speaker 1: So I felt like we had enough people there flanking
12:20
Speaker 1: the situation if he were to just to go into
12:22
Speaker 1: a rage at the locks changed and took the precautions.
12:25
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was very scary because now he's lost
12:28
Speaker 1: the control. He's terrified of what's going to happen. He
12:31
Speaker 1: didn't want me to press charges and what are you
12:34
Speaker 1: going to Probably not, but I was friends with some
12:39
Speaker 1: people in the police and they had said, if you
12:43
Speaker 1: don't press charges. They're going to press charges anyway, because
12:46
Speaker 1: this is too much of a public case. I mean,
12:48
Speaker 1: they can't have this happening on television. There was nothing
12:51
Speaker 1: done about it. So that was a big fear, is
12:55
Speaker 1: not knowing how he was going to ultimately react and
12:58
Speaker 1: if it was going to be He's going to come
12:59
Speaker 1: in with a gun kill me, you know, or you know,
13:01
Speaker 1: just just with that fear of communicating with him at
13:04
Speaker 1: this point or was it did you a little bit
13:07
Speaker 1: because he would call me, so we would have conversations
13:11
Speaker 1: about like how to how he's going to support me
13:14
Speaker 1: and things like that, and he was very willing to
13:17
Speaker 1: meet with me or talk to me on the phone,
13:19
Speaker 1: and you know, trying to lacate me, keep me under control.
13:24
Speaker 1: And here I think, maybe for the first time, feeling
13:28
Speaker 1: a little bad that I was going to have to
13:29
Speaker 1: have reconstructive surgery, like actually going wow, I really heard
13:32
Speaker 1: her this time, as opposed to before when it was
13:36
Speaker 1: that I deserved it or I caused it. So I
13:39
Speaker 1: think all the pieces were coming together for him, and
13:41
Speaker 1: he was getting more panicked than anything. And fast forward,
13:46
Speaker 1: we had had a meeting, well, I got my I
13:49
Speaker 1: had my reconstructive surgery, and then we had had a
13:55
Speaker 1: meeting scheduled at his office to talk about Kennedy, and
14:02
Speaker 1: I mean, I would picture you just scared to see
14:05
Speaker 1: his face at this point. Yeah, so that's why we
14:07
Speaker 1: were meeting in his office and there so we had
14:12
Speaker 1: this meeting and he would not miss a phone call
14:14
Speaker 1: or anything with me, because, as I said, he was panicking.
14:17
Speaker 1: And so I went to his office and his lights
14:21
Speaker 1: were off and he was a workaholic, like he worked
14:24
Speaker 1: non stop, and that was very unusual for him. And
14:27
Speaker 1: then not to show up for my meeting, calling calling, calling, phone,
14:31
Speaker 1: going to voicemail, and so then I thought, okay, maybe
14:36
Speaker 1: forgot whatever, so kind of went on with my day
14:39
Speaker 1: and then something about it just wasn't didn't feel right
14:43
Speaker 1: to me. And I knew some other people in the office,
14:45
Speaker 1: so I kind of went down before I left the
14:47
Speaker 1: office and was talking to them, just kind of biden
14:50
Speaker 1: some time, thinking maybe he had a lunch meeting. So
14:53
Speaker 1: then I he never came back, and I it just
14:56
Speaker 1: something about it that just was didn't feel right to
14:59
Speaker 1: me at all, especially because the way he had been reacting,
15:02
Speaker 1: you know, always making sure he was on task with me.
15:06
Speaker 1: So I started making a couple of phone calls for
15:08
Speaker 1: people that were close to him that he worked with,
15:10
Speaker 1: and no one had talked to him all weekend, and
15:14
Speaker 1: so I just had this weird feeling, and I decided
15:17
Speaker 1: to go over to the house where he was staying.
15:20
Speaker 1: And I was in the car with my assistant, my daughter,
15:22
Speaker 1: and I called one of my closest friend's husbands is
15:26
Speaker 1: a world championship kickboxer, So I called him and asked
15:29
Speaker 1: him to meet me at the house, and he did,
15:33
Speaker 1: and then we were ringing the gate. No one came.
15:38
Speaker 1: Finally someone else let us in the gate, and we
15:43
Speaker 1: went up to the house, up to the bathroom. We're
15:47
Speaker 1: knocking on the door, no answer, no answer. Kennedy Kenny
15:50
Speaker 1: was in the car with my assistant, and so then
15:52
Speaker 1: we went around to he had a large, big bathtub
15:56
Speaker 1: and the bathroom windows and we were kind of looking
15:58
Speaker 1: in to see if we could see anything. And so
16:01
Speaker 1: then finally the my friend put his hands. It's those
16:07
Speaker 1: roll out windows, so he put his hands underneath them
16:09
Speaker 1: to pull it out, pride the window open. And then
16:14
Speaker 1: that's when we saw Russell hanging. No, you're like comforting me.
16:25
Speaker 1: It's it's so horrible. Yeah, and and know that I've
16:30
Speaker 1: I've shared my stories so many times over the last
16:33
Speaker 1: I mean, this was twenty eleven, and so when I
16:36
Speaker 1: tell it now, it's almost as though I'm up here
16:40
Speaker 1: and I'm telling someone else's story because I.
16:42
Speaker 2: Feel like, I know, I feel like I'm sure people
16:44
Speaker 2: are having this reaction to you know, I've watched you
16:46
Speaker 2: on TV. You never know, like you know, even in
16:49
Speaker 2: like reality TV, like what's really going on with people?
16:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, yerible horrible and you know, but I do when
16:59
Speaker 1: I do tell it, it's so important because my life,
17:03
Speaker 1: you know, my life was spared and my daughter's life
17:06
Speaker 1: was spared, and murder suicide is not uncommon when there
17:10
Speaker 1: is domestic violence involved. And so because I was left here,
17:13
Speaker 1: I feel like I was left here to tell my
17:16
Speaker 1: story and to make sure that I help other people
17:18
Speaker 1: not end up in the same situation as I did.
17:21
Speaker 2: I mean, I can only imagine you must be saving
17:24
Speaker 2: people's lives every day. I mean, just because you're so
17:26
Speaker 2: honest about it. I have never heard it described in
17:30
Speaker 2: this kind of detail. I don't think maybe I don't
17:32
Speaker 2: know movies or obviously.
17:34
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, you know, and the other sad reality
17:39
Speaker 1: of it is I ran into the street and hysterics
17:42
Speaker 1: and I was on the ground, and you know, shock
17:45
Speaker 1: are just everything that you can imagine emotionally. And I
17:50
Speaker 1: was screaming, hysterically crying, and my friend, the kickboxer, was
17:55
Speaker 1: on the phone with nine one one, and then all
17:58
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I said, oh my god, Kennedy and
18:03
Speaker 1: he lived on a cul de sac, so we're dead
18:05
Speaker 1: end street, and so I thought, I have to get
18:08
Speaker 1: her out of here before all these emergency vehicles start coming.
18:12
Speaker 1: She'll never get down the hill, you know. So I
18:14
Speaker 1: kind of switched gears in a mom mode for just
18:16
Speaker 1: enough time to get her out of there. And she
18:21
Speaker 1: said to my assistant, she said, did my daddy do
18:24
Speaker 1: something stupid? She was five at the time. We got
18:29
Speaker 1: her out of there, and you know, it's so heart
18:32
Speaker 1: wrenching to me that nine to one one tapes are public.
18:35
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure what the point of that is,
18:37
Speaker 1: but the go public. Do people listen to it?
18:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember that. Oh yeah, that's stup.
18:43
Speaker 1: You can hear me screaming like and then you can
18:46
Speaker 1: hear me referring to Kennedy, and you can hear me
18:48
Speaker 1: saying I need my psychiatrist, doctor Sophie. But like, I
18:53
Speaker 1: don't understand that all nine one tapes, and if I'm wrong,
18:56
Speaker 1: somebody will correct me. But I believe they're all public
19:00
Speaker 1: and I just I don't find any reasoning in that whatsoever.
19:04
Speaker 1: So then it was all just a blur. My mom
19:08
Speaker 1: drove up my friends this pretty how much did your
19:10
Speaker 1: mom know? Well, she was there when I had the surgery,
19:15
Speaker 1: so yeah, she knew and tell you a very sad
19:19
Speaker 1: thing about the day of the surgery. And this really
19:21
Speaker 1: goes to the cycle of abuse and how much control
19:25
Speaker 1: and abuser has over you. So my mom and my
19:28
Speaker 1: best friend were sitting in the recovery with me. I
19:31
Speaker 1: was kind of coming out of morphine, and Russell walked
19:38
Speaker 1: in the door of my hospital room with flowers and jen.
19:44
Speaker 1: I can tell you it is one of the hardest
19:47
Speaker 1: things for me to share with people, is that in
19:49
Speaker 1: that moment I wanted him to crawl in bed with
19:51
Speaker 1: me and stay with me. So that's how that cycle
20:00
Speaker 1: is so powerful. I mean, even looking at the person
20:04
Speaker 1: that put me there and wanting him to get in
20:06
Speaker 1: bed and comfort me. And I looked over at my mom,
20:10
Speaker 1: my best friend, and I thought, I can't do this
20:12
Speaker 1: to them any longer. I mean, I'm I don't know
20:16
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking. Maybe it's the morphine, but the fact
20:18
Speaker 1: that I had that thought, I just thought, I'm never
20:22
Speaker 1: going to get out of this if I don't get
20:24
Speaker 1: out of it for somebody else. And they wheeled me
20:27
Speaker 1: down to see Kennedy. She was too young to come up,
20:30
Speaker 1: and she's sitting on my lap in the wheelchair, and
20:33
Speaker 1: I just thought this has to end. I mean, I
20:36
Speaker 1: can't do this to everybody else, even though I'm willing
20:38
Speaker 1: to potentially get back with this maniac.
20:42
Speaker 2: But you're thinking of your mom, Like your mom seeing
20:49
Speaker 2: him come in with flowers, your mother must have been
20:53
Speaker 2: I mean, I know your mom.
20:55
Speaker 1: Mom.
20:55
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine, like how she felt at that moment,
20:59
Speaker 2: you know, Like.
21:01
Speaker 1: And he apologized to my mom and my best friend.
21:05
Speaker 1: I think they didn't even respond. I think it was
21:08
Speaker 1: just they were in shock and I was. Actually it
21:10
Speaker 1: was a blend of two feelings. When he walked in
21:12
Speaker 1: the door, I was scared, you know, you like, or
21:16
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. I don't know if he has
21:17
Speaker 1: a gun behind the flowers, or what could potentially go wrong,
21:20
Speaker 1: but then that feeling of wanting him to get into
21:22
Speaker 1: bed with me. When I reflect on that, I could think, yeah,
21:26
Speaker 1: and to think that that's the person in that moment
21:28
Speaker 1: I thought would comfort me. It really is like the
21:31
Speaker 1: sixth sense of what the psyclo of abuse is, like.
21:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, I like and be like, no, I
21:42
Speaker 2: know full story that he killed himself, hate his spaking guts.
21:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. You and I as moms, I
21:49
Speaker 1: don't if I were in that position. I mean, my
21:51
Speaker 1: mom I think was just so in shock when he
21:53
Speaker 1: walked in and in shock about everything that had happened,
21:56
Speaker 1: that she didn't respond and probably was would have been
21:59
Speaker 1: fearful to respond to him, not knowing what his his
22:03
Speaker 1: mom going to be. But as us being moms, you know,
22:06
Speaker 1: I have no idea because I feel like my rage
22:09
Speaker 1: would have been so great. I don't I don't know
22:10
Speaker 1: how I would have reacted. But yeah, thank thankfully we're
22:13
Speaker 1: not ever going to be in that situation.
22:16
Speaker 2: That's the that make my daughter listen to this one.
22:19
Speaker 2: I think all daughters should.
22:21
Speaker 1: I hope. Uh.
22:22
Speaker 2: Okay, So after Russell committed suicide, I'm trying to remember
22:31
Speaker 2: how you're still filming the show at that point or
22:35
Speaker 2: it was wrapped. Okay, So I had had the orbit
22:37
Speaker 2: before reconstruction, and that was a big part of the finale.
22:41
Speaker 1: So we were all at the finale. Doctor Sophie went
22:44
Speaker 1: with me. And then now I've had the surgery and
22:47
Speaker 1: so there's not really anyone that can say they don't
22:49
Speaker 1: believe me at this point. You know, people saying they
22:51
Speaker 1: didn't believe you. Yeah, there was a time when it
22:54
Speaker 1: was kind of like Camille and Adrian were saying they
22:56
Speaker 1: were having doubts. I will say, I'm not going to
22:58
Speaker 1: say they didn't believe me, but they were a long
22:59
Speaker 1: time ago.
23:00
Speaker 2: Try kind of as you're saying it, it's kind of
23:02
Speaker 2: coming back to me.
23:03
Speaker 1: Yep. And Lisa and Kyle were definitely on my side
23:06
Speaker 1: and then but like Camille and Adrian, they were just
23:09
Speaker 1: asking a lot of questions. I don't know when I
23:11
Speaker 1: look back though, if it was out of fear for
23:14
Speaker 1: them that they didn't want to admit that they knew
23:17
Speaker 1: because now they see how crazy he's how culpable in it,
23:21
Speaker 1: or no, maybe like fearful, like we don't he can
23:24
Speaker 1: come for them, Yes, like we're not going to say
23:26
Speaker 1: he did this because we don't want to a be involved,
23:29
Speaker 1: talked to you, even asked.
23:29
Speaker 2: Them over about it. Well, Camille came out years later.
23:33
Speaker 2: Unfortunately he talked to them anymore.
23:35
Speaker 1: You know. Well, I'm on great terms with all of them,
23:38
Speaker 1: so I don't you know, it's so far Orange County
23:40
Speaker 1: to Beverly Hills. People think it's like I just took
23:44
Speaker 1: to exactly, So it's not. We don't see each other
23:47
Speaker 1: like we would if I lived here. Are you forgiven
23:49
Speaker 1: that the questioned you or that they Yeah, for sure,
23:52
Speaker 1: And I do think part of it was out of
23:54
Speaker 1: fear that they didn't want him coming after them, and
23:58
Speaker 1: I think that was I think they were. Everybody was
24:00
Speaker 1: kind of in shocked to begin with, and that this
24:02
Speaker 1: was all getting ready to come out on the show,
24:04
Speaker 1: and fearful of what the result was going to be.
24:06
Speaker 1: And it was just a myriad of emotions. But that finale,
24:09
Speaker 1: I've had the surgery, now he's living out. Then I
24:12
Speaker 1: find him hanging, and then there was a reunion. So
24:16
Speaker 1: then that I blocked this. I can't imagine that I
24:18
Speaker 1: forgot this. That please. Yeah. So then I was trying
24:23
Speaker 1: to think of the chain of events. It was a
24:24
Speaker 1: little bit of a blurback then. So I had the
24:26
Speaker 1: surgery in July, I find him hanging in August, and
24:31
Speaker 1: October would have been our sixth wedding anniversary. So then
24:37
Speaker 1: the show air, oh I know. So then they were
24:40
Speaker 1: trying to decide whether the air the show or not.
24:42
Speaker 1: And you see in the first episode before the show airs,
24:46
Speaker 1: all the girls get getting together at Adrian Muluf's house
24:49
Speaker 1: and they're on camera, but they're discussing whether the show
24:52
Speaker 1: should air or not. And Camille was a hard no
24:55
Speaker 1: on wanting the show to air. Why because she's the
25:00
Speaker 1: one that outed everything and probably thought she might be villainized.
25:04
Speaker 1: I'm putting words in her mouth, but you know that
25:05
Speaker 1: people would say, I can't believe you would out someone's abuse.
25:08
Speaker 1: Was she villainized? I don't remember that either. I don't know.
25:14
Speaker 1: I was kind of in a fog at that point.
25:17
Speaker 1: But later, unfortunately, Camille had an abusive situation of her
25:22
Speaker 1: own and she went through it. I think she told
25:25
Speaker 1: me for like an hour or something, and she came
25:30
Speaker 1: back to me and just said the terror that she
25:32
Speaker 1: felt in that one hour, that she just felt so
25:35
Speaker 1: absolutely horrible to think about all that I had gone through,
25:39
Speaker 1: and she was just extremely apologetic and hate that she
25:43
Speaker 1: had to experience it to really recognize the terror that
25:47
Speaker 1: exists during those moments. But she was extremely supportive and
25:53
Speaker 1: sad and definitely forgiveness happened. But other than that, everyone
26:02
Speaker 1: was just very supportive. I mean, you know, coming to
26:05
Speaker 1: the funeral and being supportive of of me and checking
26:09
Speaker 1: in on me. I didn't leave my house for quite
26:11
Speaker 1: some time, and Kyle and Lisa came over and they're
26:15
Speaker 1: so funny, and we did fun silly things with Kennedy
26:19
Speaker 1: and just tried to put the pieces together which were
26:23
Speaker 1: falling apart all over the place. I had armed security
26:27
Speaker 1: with me all the time and in my house even
26:30
Speaker 1: and back then the paparazzi were really relentless. You know,
26:34
Speaker 1: it's changed a little with all the iPhones and everybody
26:37
Speaker 1: posting their own stuff, but they were all over my streets.
26:42
Speaker 1: I mean they were. I couldn't leave the house there
26:44
Speaker 1: were It was insanity. It was truly. My house was
26:47
Speaker 1: like ground zero for all these paparazzi and everything, and
26:51
Speaker 1: so it was just like people had to come see
26:52
Speaker 1: me because I couldn't leave and go anywhere. The first
26:56
Speaker 1: time I left, I had to go to Fores Lawn
26:58
Speaker 1: to plan the funeral, and so my bodyguard at the time,
27:02
Speaker 1: they put me under a blanket. My god, I know,
27:04
Speaker 1: in the back of the escalade and in the garage,
27:08
Speaker 1: and then my assistant was in the front and we
27:09
Speaker 1: pulled out and then here they come, and so there's
27:12
Speaker 1: a huge and you know, they all have priuses back then,
27:14
Speaker 1: so they can always keep up with you longer. And
27:16
Speaker 1: then I'm going an escalade the because gas guzzler, but
27:19
Speaker 1: so you know, we were weaving in and out of traffic,
27:22
Speaker 1: and it was just it was insanity, Like I never
27:25
Speaker 1: thought I'm gonna be able to escape these people. I
27:27
Speaker 1: can't even leave my house. And so that was just
27:29
Speaker 1: adding on top of the shock and the recovery and
27:33
Speaker 1: the suicide and then now I'm dealing with all of
27:35
Speaker 1: this and trying to figure out how to put the
27:37
Speaker 1: pieces of my life back together. And it was just awful.
27:40
Speaker 1: And I was getting interview requests from everyone you can imagine,
27:44
Speaker 1: up to Barbara Walters and and thinking like I am
27:49
Speaker 1: not ready for this. Onslaught of answering all of these questions.
27:53
Speaker 1: It was all so fresh and I was in shock,
27:55
Speaker 1: and there were so many other problems that were going
27:58
Speaker 1: on from a logistical perspective with finances and because I
28:01
Speaker 1: had no access to money, and just trying to figure
28:04
Speaker 1: out how I was going to put the pieces back together.
28:06
Speaker 1: And my daughter was at a very expensive private school,
28:08
Speaker 1: as you know, and so it was like on top
28:11
Speaker 1: of the shock, the recovery, the paparazzi and the press,
28:15
Speaker 1: and then you know, my financial situation and trying to
28:19
Speaker 1: figure out how to put my life back together and
28:20
Speaker 1: not let my five year old daughter see that I
28:22
Speaker 1: was a complete and total wreck, and it was just
28:25
Speaker 1: it really feels like back then, it was like I
28:27
Speaker 1: felt like I was just sitting in my backyard and
28:31
Speaker 1: drink chardenay and listen to the eagles and just stare
28:34
Speaker 1: and think, I have no idea what I'm going to
28:36
Speaker 1: do because there were too many, too many things going
28:41
Speaker 1: wrong and nothing was going right. What about his parents?
28:55
Speaker 1: Where were they? His parents, of course had mental health
29:00
Speaker 1: issues and they were divorced. But they were they ever
29:03
Speaker 1: there for for you or for no I mean, very
29:07
Speaker 1: sweet people, but definitely not capable of assisting in any way.
29:13
Speaker 1: My mom was there when I woke up the day
29:16
Speaker 1: after the suicide. My house was filled with like my
29:19
Speaker 1: best very best friends. They were one of my best
29:22
Speaker 1: friends was in bed with me, my other best friends
29:24
Speaker 1: standing over me. My other best friend was she works
29:27
Speaker 1: for KTLA. She's outside trying to manage the press like
29:30
Speaker 1: they were in full blown like recovery mode for me immediately.
29:36
Speaker 1: And then people coming to visit me at the house
29:38
Speaker 1: and flowers from every place you can possibly imagine, and
29:42
Speaker 1: so I had a lot of support, thankfully. Is there then,
29:46
Speaker 1: like everything else I guess people talk about. No.
29:49
Speaker 2: Then that slowly starts to fade in terms of like, Okay,
29:53
Speaker 2: now it's not so new anymore, and you're still dealing
29:55
Speaker 2: with the aftermath. Right now, all of a sudden, it's
29:59
Speaker 2: not everybody standing over you and flowers pouring in. Right
30:02
Speaker 2: then you have to deal with the reality of your
30:04
Speaker 2: situation in this little girl who now has lost her
30:08
Speaker 2: father and she was how old at the time, five
30:10
Speaker 2: she understood?
30:12
Speaker 1: Wasn't you know? Does she remember this? I don't know
30:16
Speaker 1: how much detail she remembers. I'm sure because it was
30:19
Speaker 1: so so much trauma and unfortunately, the stories everywhere, so
30:24
Speaker 1: you know, she knew at a very early age. All
30:26
Speaker 1: that had happened. When it first happened, I had told
30:29
Speaker 1: her that your daddy died because he was sick in
30:32
Speaker 1: the head, and I just want to I didn't. She
30:35
Speaker 1: did not know it was a suicide. But then fast forward,
30:38
Speaker 1: when I finally did start taking her out of the house,
30:41
Speaker 1: the paparazzi be chasing us and going, how does Kennedy
30:44
Speaker 1: feel about the suicide? And I'm like, you guys, come
30:46
Speaker 1: on now, I mean, you know you need to do
30:49
Speaker 1: this to a five year old. I mean, so, it
30:51
Speaker 1: just it was so bad back then and it's not
30:54
Speaker 1: like that anymore. So that's a good thing. But I
30:57
Speaker 1: had no privacy and no ability to really heal, just
31:01
Speaker 1: because I was dealing with so many problems I was
31:03
Speaker 1: left with, and then just the stress of everything that
31:06
Speaker 1: was going to come out on the show.
31:10
Speaker 2: I mean like, I feel like, if you could go
31:14
Speaker 2: get through that, you could get through anything. That sounds
31:17
Speaker 2: like the worst possible. I cannot imagine how you were
31:21
Speaker 2: living through that.
31:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I always say that people will say you're
31:25
Speaker 1: so strong, you're so strong, But the truth of the
31:27
Speaker 1: matter is that when you go through something a tragedy,
31:31
Speaker 1: you know, you find strength inside you that you didn't
31:33
Speaker 1: know you have, and then you can take that and
31:36
Speaker 1: kind of put it in your back pocket and so
31:38
Speaker 1: the next time you're faced with challenges in life which
31:41
Speaker 1: you're going to be right and the universe doesn't go
31:44
Speaker 1: Taylor's been through enough. We're not giving her any more problems.
31:47
Speaker 1: But I'm able to go. I got this. I mean,
31:50
Speaker 1: whatever's coming ahead of me is I've got that strength
31:54
Speaker 1: that I didn't know I have. It's part of my arsenal.
31:56
Speaker 1: You know, my warrior shield is very banged up. And
32:00
Speaker 1: if you want to go into battle, going with me
32:01
Speaker 1: because I got you on this one, I love you. Yeah.
32:12
Speaker 1: It's good though, and it also is it's important because
32:15
Speaker 1: there is life after and so knowing what I've been
32:17
Speaker 1: through and when people are struggling and they want to
32:20
Speaker 1: share their story with me, I think you had the
32:22
Speaker 1: most amazing woman. I think you're the most amazing woman.
32:26
Speaker 2: I mean I again, like as a viewer, it's such
32:29
Speaker 2: a different experience, like to actually talk to you, and
32:32
Speaker 2: I've known you for a while with your friendly but
32:34
Speaker 2: I think you are incredible, especially now letting me share it.
32:38
Speaker 2: Oh please, Well, I mean it's this is I do
32:40
Speaker 2: part two? So we're actually supposed to talk about part
32:42
Speaker 2: two in your New Life. We just spent so much
32:45
Speaker 2: time on part one. Yeah, I do want to know
32:58
Speaker 2: because I have met your husband and I know he
33:00
Speaker 2: to Kennedy, and I do want to know about you know,
33:02
Speaker 2: this happy ending or I don't know what to call it,
33:05
Speaker 2: but but this next chapter. And you know, how you
33:09
Speaker 2: manage like even trusting somebody else, another man, you know,
33:14
Speaker 2: and how like how is that? How was you must
33:18
Speaker 2: have been? How it means you do date after this?
33:20
Speaker 2: Like how did you even meet anyone? Yeah?
33:23
Speaker 1: You know?
33:23
Speaker 2: Or I'm sure you were afraid to leave the house
33:25
Speaker 2: for a long time, Yeah, for sure. And and the
33:28
Speaker 2: and the realization that I'm never going to meet anyone authentically,
33:32
Speaker 2: that nobody's ever going to get to know me for me.
33:34
Speaker 2: They're gonna know what they saw on TV, what they
33:36
Speaker 2: seen in the tabloids, they.
33:36
Speaker 1: Heard about from those people exactly, and that I'm a
33:40
Speaker 1: quote unquote victim. And you know, so there's that whole
33:43
Speaker 1: side to it. And then also to your point, I thought,
33:47
Speaker 1: I will never trust another man as long as I live.
33:49
Speaker 1: So after the suicide, all this financial stuff came to
33:55
Speaker 1: bear where he had emptied out all the bank accounts.
33:59
Speaker 1: I didn't have access to the bank bank accounts because
34:00
Speaker 1: you know, as I told you earlier, he had financial
34:02
Speaker 1: control over me. So all these lies and things kept
34:06
Speaker 1: coming up that I was all the money. Well that's
34:10
Speaker 1: a good question. So this kind of came out a
34:14
Speaker 1: little bit later for me. But so I had to
34:17
Speaker 1: hire a law firm to look for the money to
34:21
Speaker 1: get into the bank accounts. And when we had an
34:22
Speaker 1: offshore asset protection trust in the Cook Islands, and as
34:28
Speaker 1: far as I know, he told me and it was,
34:30
Speaker 1: you know, going to be a large sum. And so
34:34
Speaker 1: I had a hire a law firm to help me
34:36
Speaker 1: try to get into these bank accounts and to get
34:38
Speaker 1: to the assets. And so I wt those guys going.
34:43
Speaker 1: And then Russell was being sued by a public company
34:45
Speaker 1: when he died for one point five million dollars, So
34:48
Speaker 1: that lawsuit came to me, and so now I'm fighting
34:52
Speaker 1: that with a corporate law firm. And this is getting
34:55
Speaker 1: to chapter two. So a friend of mine said, I
35:00
Speaker 1: went over they hid me again and took me to
35:02
Speaker 1: his house and he said, I'll never forget. He was
35:06
Speaker 1: making me dinner and he was stirring, and he said, listen,
35:10
Speaker 1: you can wallow in this ship for the rest of
35:12
Speaker 1: your life. You can ruin your life and Kennedy's, or
35:14
Speaker 1: you can put on your big girl pants and do
35:16
Speaker 1: something about it because nobody's coming to save you. And
35:19
Speaker 1: all I had heard prior, which I so appreciate too,
35:22
Speaker 1: is it's gonna be okay, Like we love you, you know,
35:25
Speaker 1: all those kinds of reassurances, but to have somebody for you, right,
35:30
Speaker 1: but just have somebody say to me, no one's coming
35:33
Speaker 1: to save you, so you better figure out what the
35:36
Speaker 1: hell you're gonna do next. I mean, he was just
35:38
Speaker 1: very blunt about it. And as much as that seems
35:40
Speaker 1: like tough love, I walked away thinking, Okay, this is
35:43
Speaker 1: actually on me. So he said, I'm gonna make one
35:45
Speaker 1: phone call for you, and he called, No, come on,
35:49
Speaker 1: get the hell out of here. Come on. He called
35:52
Speaker 1: my husband John. Wait, why did he call him? What
35:55
Speaker 1: was John? I'll tell you, Scott to be kidding me.
35:58
Speaker 1: I know. So John an attorney and he also was
36:02
Speaker 1: with on Wall Street for twenty years, so he's done
36:05
Speaker 1: a lot of corporate litigation sec work, like so the
36:08
Speaker 1: public company situation all in his wheelhouse. He has was
36:12
Speaker 1: GC for major companies. He was at Lehman. So he
36:17
Speaker 1: George said, you got to help this girl. You've met
36:20
Speaker 1: her socially at my house a couple of times, but like,
36:23
Speaker 1: she needs help and she's never going to get out
36:26
Speaker 1: of this alone. So here comes John and we thought
36:30
Speaker 1: probably almost for two years I'm gonna say, like literally,
36:34
Speaker 1: because every time he would call me it was bad news.
36:37
Speaker 1: But so he started managing the two law firms. He
36:39
Speaker 1: was like, listen, you can't charge this scirl this this
36:42
Speaker 1: public company is going to bury her. There's no way
36:44
Speaker 1: she can fight at this level, you know, financially. And
36:47
Speaker 1: then they're looking for the assets on the other side
36:49
Speaker 1: with this other law firm. So now he's got the
36:51
Speaker 1: two law firms under control to the point where he's.
36:53
Speaker 2: Like he had worked with was he expecting at this point?
36:56
Speaker 2: I mean, you're like, well, I pay this guy too. No,
37:00
Speaker 2: I'm I going to pay this guy. You knew from
37:01
Speaker 2: the get go that he wasn't going to charge you. Yes,
37:03
Speaker 2: he was doing it as a favor to my friend George.
37:06
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. And George is the kind of person that
37:08
Speaker 1: when you ask for a favor, you say yes, yes,
37:10
Speaker 1: got introduced me to George. He would like him. So
37:15
Speaker 1: so we start that path. But every time he would
37:17
Speaker 1: call me, it was bad news. He would call me
37:19
Speaker 1: and say, they got into another bank account and it's empty,
37:23
Speaker 1: or we got into you know, it took a very
37:25
Speaker 1: long time to get into the trust because those are
37:27
Speaker 1: well protected. Empty everything was gone, and I a joke
37:34
Speaker 1: and say, I felt like at that point, I like
37:36
Speaker 1: I couldn't put the puzzle pieces together because I knew
37:39
Speaker 1: that we were spending a lot of money every month,
37:41
Speaker 1: and I'm like, where was the money coming from and
37:44
Speaker 1: where did the money go? Like, so I've got that
37:47
Speaker 1: on top of the grief and every and trying to
37:49
Speaker 1: put the pieces back together. So I'm like trying to
37:51
Speaker 1: figure out how am I pay for my house, my
37:52
Speaker 1: daughter's school, like everything that's going on, and they kept
37:56
Speaker 1: he every time he would call me his bad news,
37:58
Speaker 1: and so I'd be like, what, you know what he
38:00
Speaker 1: would call and he'd be like, you know, I'm like,
38:03
Speaker 1: I don't want to make any decisions today, and you're
38:05
Speaker 1: the only one that can make the decisions. So he
38:08
Speaker 1: was very matter of fact with me. But I remember
38:10
Speaker 1: at one point he told me that he went to
38:12
Speaker 1: my friend George and said, I can't work with this girl,
38:14
Speaker 1: like she's crazy, and George's like, she's going through a lot,
38:17
Speaker 1: so you're just gonna have to stick it out, like
38:19
Speaker 1: we got to make this work for her.
38:20
Speaker 2: So there was neverways there like at least like a
38:22
Speaker 2: friendship would start, Like from the beginning, did you feel like,
38:25
Speaker 2: even though you always used to fight with him, did
38:27
Speaker 2: you feel like he was like all.
38:29
Speaker 1: I he became a friend and obviously yes, and you know,
38:36
Speaker 1: he stood on my side through all of that when
38:38
Speaker 1: I think most people would have said, I can't deal
38:40
Speaker 1: with this girl. And that's where the trust was developed
38:43
Speaker 1: in thinking that I would never trust a man again,
38:46
Speaker 1: that now I have this person who's stood on my
38:48
Speaker 1: side with no compensation and is managing these law firms
38:51
Speaker 1: to help protect me. Yeah, most people would have been
38:53
Speaker 1: like doing it for free. She's yelling at me every
38:56
Speaker 1: time I call.
38:57
Speaker 2: Yes, it's not my fault, like yeah, yeah, you know.
39:01
Speaker 1: And so and he'd never even heard of housewives, so
39:05
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, these these women really are crazy,
39:07
Speaker 1: you know. So that compounding and then the tabloids and
39:11
Speaker 1: so as things progressed with us it was actually speaking
39:14
Speaker 1: of the tabloids. We were in a restaurant in New
39:16
Speaker 1: York with other people. I think it was at my
39:20
Speaker 1: book maybe my book signing or when I was signing
39:22
Speaker 1: my book contract, and we were leaving and he threw
39:27
Speaker 1: the paparazzi were outside and he threw a jacket over
39:30
Speaker 1: me and had his arm holding it over me. Well,
39:33
Speaker 1: of course they took a picture and cropped out all
39:35
Speaker 1: the other people and it looks like he and I
39:37
Speaker 1: are leaving a restaurant together with his arm around me, right,
39:40
Speaker 1: And there was no relationship whatsoever back then. So you know,
39:43
Speaker 1: fast forward, people were like, oh they were dating. We
39:45
Speaker 1: were not dating back then, and we were still like
39:48
Speaker 1: very much in the logistics mode. Uh yeah, so that
39:52
Speaker 1: is how that unfolded. But yeah, the trust just developed
39:55
Speaker 1: over time, and then the appreciation for everything he was
39:58
Speaker 1: doing for me and he's a good person, but they
40:03
Speaker 1: love definitely didn't come for a while, a long while.
40:09
Speaker 1: I think he was straight. Well, I know he was
40:11
Speaker 1: starting to have feelings for me, because we've talked about it.
40:13
Speaker 2: Did you have did you miss at that point? Did
40:16
Speaker 2: you feel it in yourself at that point or no?
40:18
Speaker 1: Nothing? I was like, you gotta be kidding me, you know,
40:20
Speaker 1: it was there was nothing there whatsoever. And then we
40:22
Speaker 1: were having we were having dinner and dinner meeting and
40:27
Speaker 1: with a sunglass manufacturer actually, and she was sitting acrossmus
40:30
Speaker 1: We were hobviers in Orange County, and all of a
40:34
Speaker 1: sudden we looked at one another. We were sitting on
40:36
Speaker 1: the same side of the booth and she was across
40:38
Speaker 1: most and we looked at one another, and I was like,
40:40
Speaker 1: wait a minute, and I just I remember like looking away,
40:43
Speaker 1: thinking what was that, And it like, all of a sudden,
40:45
Speaker 1: he just looked like a completely different person to me,
40:48
Speaker 1: and I felt some weird emotion come over me, and
40:51
Speaker 1: I thought, wait, what is going on with me? Maybe
40:52
Speaker 1: it's the margarita but and the sun glass manufacturer. She goes,
40:56
Speaker 1: should leave you two alone, and I was like no, no, no, no, no,
41:01
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was like, wasn't that obvious. It
41:03
Speaker 1: was so bizarre that it just happened like that.
41:05
Speaker 2: It's so funny because I say to Rachel, my daughter
41:07
Speaker 2: all the time, like, you know, she's she's like, I
41:09
Speaker 2: like the bad boy. I'm like really because I thought
41:11
Speaker 2: that I did, And then I met your father and
41:14
Speaker 2: he I had no interest. He was just like the
41:16
Speaker 2: nicest guy. But I was like, no, there's no spark.
41:19
Speaker 2: There was no spark there. And one day I remember like,
41:24
Speaker 2: I don't know, he kissed me and I was like,
41:27
Speaker 2: first I didn't want him to, but he did. I mean,
41:30
Speaker 2: it wasn't like whatever we can And I remember thinking like,
41:33
Speaker 2: wait a.
41:33
Speaker 1: Second, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm like, I feel like.
41:36
Speaker 2: With women like you as a woman, you having somebody
41:41
Speaker 2: that you are that is so reliable, that becomes sexy,
41:48
Speaker 2: good to you, kind, you know, different from you're describing
41:53
Speaker 2: me like the night and shining armor. Who's going to
41:54
Speaker 2: come in and you don't be daddy and you don't
41:57
Speaker 2: have to work anymore and I'm gonna all of the
41:59
Speaker 2: love bombing, right. It's like I would like for my
42:03
Speaker 2: own daughter, like find the spark with a guy because
42:05
Speaker 2: he is so kind and good and reliable and gentle
42:15
Speaker 2: and all of those things. Because that's what happened with Jeff.
42:17
Speaker 2: I really was like thinking, it's we don't have that.
42:20
Speaker 2: I don't want to hang from the chandeliers and which
42:23
Speaker 2: not just saying that. I'm not saying that I never
42:25
Speaker 2: did but what sparked it was like, wait a second,
42:28
Speaker 2: this guy is so wonderful to me, and like that
42:32
Speaker 2: is still to this day, you know, it's like, guess
42:34
Speaker 2: I just love him. We've been through it, but absolutely
42:38
Speaker 2: this is not about me making me think for the
42:42
Speaker 2: first time, I know, was that the change right then?
42:44
Speaker 2: I just thought because I was also seeing another guy.
42:48
Speaker 2: But I remember thinking, wait a second, like I love
42:50
Speaker 2: Jeff Fessler, like he's the best, and like he was
42:54
Speaker 2: a friend, you know, for more than anything. I was
42:56
Speaker 2: sending him away. I was like, I don't feel it,
42:58
Speaker 2: like let's just be friends and we need to be rocks.
43:00
Speaker 2: He want to just be whatever, And then he kept
43:02
Speaker 2: coming around. I was like, five, we'll be friends again,
43:04
Speaker 2: and this wouldn't stop. Wouln't leave me alone. But he
43:06
Speaker 2: wasn't like a I mean, he was always just gentle
43:09
Speaker 2: and kind and an accountant. He had used to be accountant,
43:12
Speaker 2: so we would like do my taxes, I don't know,
43:14
Speaker 2: and I was like.
43:15
Speaker 1: He's such a great guy.
43:15
Speaker 2: I wish that I could feel that, and one day
43:18
Speaker 2: I did, and I still think, like to this day,
43:21
Speaker 2: I wish I hope for my daughter that yes, it's
43:25
Speaker 2: great to have a spark and all of the sex
43:28
Speaker 2: and the excitement and all of it, and you have
43:31
Speaker 2: to just like more important than that is, you know,
43:35
Speaker 2: like for me, like a spark now is I get
43:38
Speaker 2: sparked from peace, from like peace in my life, and
43:41
Speaker 2: as I get older, even more appreciative of that, you.
43:45
Speaker 1: Know, absolutely. I mean that's sacks are super fun, but
43:48
Speaker 1: I mean we all know they fade. Eventually, they fade,
43:50
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I hope she makes I want
43:53
Speaker 1: her to make wise decisions, you know.
43:56
Speaker 2: Twenty three. I'm going to make her again watch and listen.
43:59
Speaker 1: Listen.
44:00
Speaker 2: I hope that all of my friends make listen and
44:02
Speaker 2: make their daughters listen, because I you know you do.
44:05
Speaker 2: It's not like you're the first to tell the story
44:06
Speaker 2: of abuse, but you're so open about it. How does
44:09
Speaker 2: Kennedy feel about the fact that you're sharing all of
44:11
Speaker 2: it now?
44:12
Speaker 1: I don't think that Kennedy is affected by it, probably
44:16
Speaker 1: because there's so much out there about it that it's
44:18
Speaker 1: she's probably I'm not I don't want to put words
44:21
Speaker 1: in her mouth, but it's been told so many times
44:24
Speaker 1: that maybe for her too, she doesn't feel like she's
44:27
Speaker 1: really was in it, that she feels like she was
44:29
Speaker 1: up here, you know, looking down on it. But and
44:32
Speaker 1: she has a great boyfriend who's very sweet, and you know,
44:35
Speaker 1: she's also very strong and very independent, and I think
44:40
Speaker 1: part of that is knowing what I went through and
44:43
Speaker 1: knowing that she would never allow that in her life.
44:45
Speaker 1: So the cycle truly does stop with her. Wow, my mother,
44:48
Speaker 1: she does. She grappled with the fact that was her father.
44:51
Speaker 2: Ever, I mean, I'm hoping, don't you tell me anything
44:53
Speaker 2: about Kennedy, But like, I'm sure it was a lot
44:56
Speaker 2: for her.
44:57
Speaker 1: You know, we were talking about earlier about when she
45:00
Speaker 1: would stand in between selling me when she was a
45:03
Speaker 1: toddler and me not recognizing that she kind of knew
45:05
Speaker 1: what was going on. And I was taking her to
45:07
Speaker 1: school one day after the suicide and she was in
45:11
Speaker 1: her car seat by me and my psychiatrist, doctor Sophie
45:16
Speaker 1: had told me bring him up on occasion and try
45:20
Speaker 1: to put memories in her mind so she doesn't think
45:23
Speaker 1: people just disappear, you know. Then we just don't talk
45:25
Speaker 1: about it anymore, you know. So I said, we were
45:28
Speaker 1: a stop by, and I said, do you miss Daddy?
45:30
Speaker 1: And she goes no, And she goes no, inn oh,
45:34
Speaker 1: and I said, well, sometimes I miss Daddy. And I said,
45:36
Speaker 1: remember that time we were at in Hawaii and I
45:39
Speaker 1: tried to give her a reference about Sam Castles and
45:42
Speaker 1: she goes, Mommy, why would you miss the boy that
45:45
Speaker 1: screamed at you all the time at five? And I
45:49
Speaker 1: was so happy that she was behind me in her
45:52
Speaker 1: car seat because tears are running down my face thinking,
45:54
Speaker 1: oh my god, she knew way more than I thought.
45:57
Speaker 1: I thought I had protected no way.
45:59
Speaker 2: I've been there for years and years of My therapist
46:01
Speaker 2: always says, they always know, Like these kids, they just do.
46:06
Speaker 2: Like you think you're hiding stuff from your kids, your
46:08
Speaker 2: kids know what's.
46:08
Speaker 1: Going on absolutely, And that was one of the hardest
46:12
Speaker 1: things for me to wrap my head around, is, oh
46:14
Speaker 1: my god, I stayed too long and now I was
46:17
Speaker 1: a child. My earliest childhood memory is my father beating
46:20
Speaker 1: my mother. So I'm like a psychology one oh one
46:23
Speaker 1: textbook that I would then follow that exact path, you know,
46:26
Speaker 1: which is unfortunately predictable that an abuser, someone who's in
46:31
Speaker 1: an abusive household is more likely statistically to become an
46:34
Speaker 1: abuser or a victim people. You know, yeah, exactly. So
46:38
Speaker 1: having had that.
46:39
Speaker 2: That's the whole other I that did got a father
46:41
Speaker 2: that beat up your mom, yep.
46:44
Speaker 1: And my mom was so brave. She was young and
46:46
Speaker 1: she I remember it's so vividly. I remember what my
46:50
Speaker 1: pajamas looked like. And I had on blue zip up
46:53
Speaker 1: those plastic footy pajamas with a Teddy Bear right here.
46:55
Speaker 1: I remember it perfectly. And in talking and so my
46:59
Speaker 1: father was beating mother, and she grabbed me and we
47:02
Speaker 1: ran out the door. And she never looked back. And
47:05
Speaker 1: she was young, really, she was young, and I mean
47:08
Speaker 1: so so brave to not go back, because I wow,
47:11
Speaker 1: statistics say most people go back seven times before finally leaving,
47:15
Speaker 1: but she didn't. And I just my mom. I always
47:19
Speaker 1: have mad respect for her for being able to do that.
47:21
Speaker 1: And she was very she was very young.
47:23
Speaker 2: You think maybe if you had shared it with her,
47:25
Speaker 2: like when you were going through it, because I know
47:26
Speaker 2: you said you just you just don't want to shadow her.
47:29
Speaker 2: But I wonder if she would have I would have
47:32
Speaker 2: shattered her to think that you were going through something
47:34
Speaker 2: that she went through that was so awful. But I
47:38
Speaker 2: wonder if she would have helped, you know, like she
47:41
Speaker 2: would have. I don't know, who knows retrospect.
47:44
Speaker 1: I didn't want to, like you said, hurt her, and
47:47
Speaker 1: I think that she knows. I'm pretty I would have
47:51
Speaker 1: been really hard to convince to leave them, so it
47:54
Speaker 1: would have been a constant battle for her. It would
47:56
Speaker 1: have put her through so much pain, and then seeing
47:59
Speaker 1: me not leave and over for Christmas and Thanksgiving and
48:02
Speaker 1: just staring at him, thinking what he's doing to me.
48:04
Speaker 1: He must be so proud of you now he must
48:07
Speaker 1: just be right. Yeah, I mean I know that she
48:11
Speaker 1: was really heartbroken at first, because I didn't go to
48:14
Speaker 1: her with all of this. I mean, she didn't express
48:17
Speaker 1: that to me, but I know that she was. And
48:20
Speaker 1: but I'm so proud of her for being so strong.
48:23
Speaker 1: But going back to Kennedy, like, the cycle definitely stops
48:27
Speaker 1: with her. There's just no way she would allow someone
48:30
Speaker 1: to treat her poorly, nor could she wrap her head
48:32
Speaker 1: around how I would have ever done it. Good. No,
48:34
Speaker 1: so good. She's doing great, but it was a hard
48:37
Speaker 1: moment when she asked me about the screaming at me
48:39
Speaker 1: all the time, why would you be with a boy
48:42
Speaker 1: or miss a boy?
48:44
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully, well that'll that will It'll always amaze her
48:47
Speaker 2: when she hears hopefully the story and always you how
48:51
Speaker 2: was that possibly? My mother is a warrior, you know, Well,
48:55
Speaker 2: so Taylor, now that you are such a you are
48:59
Speaker 2: a hero, an advocate and a warrior, and now you're
49:01
Speaker 2: like doing I mean, how long has your advocacy been
49:04
Speaker 2: going on?
49:04
Speaker 1: Here?
49:05
Speaker 2: Like if you've been talking, I know you have an
49:06
Speaker 2: event coming up. I want you to talk about it, yes,
49:08
Speaker 2: but how long? I mean you wrote your book? When
49:11
Speaker 2: I wrote my book very quickly. We put it out
49:14
Speaker 2: at the beginning of twenty twelve. Okay, oh so okay,
49:17
Speaker 2: so you had the book, so you put it out there. Yeah,
49:19
Speaker 2: and you have you been so you've been going around
49:22
Speaker 2: talking about this for a long time, a long time. So,
49:25
Speaker 2: and I also would like to say it came up at.
49:27
Speaker 1: The at the reunion. Actually, so I needed the money
49:32
Speaker 1: for the book, you know, with everything I was going through,
49:35
Speaker 1: and so when I was offered the retainer for the
49:40
Speaker 1: book in advance, I should say I took it, but
49:43
Speaker 1: that part of that requirement would contractually was that I
49:46
Speaker 1: had to have it written before the reunion because they
49:49
Speaker 1: wanted to launch it then and that was soon. So
49:53
Speaker 1: we wrote it very very quickly. But I got some
49:57
Speaker 1: criticism at the reunion for writing it from Brandy.
50:00
Speaker 2: Of course, I remember, yes, how's your book though something
50:05
Speaker 2: like that. It's like it's been a hot minute. I
50:07
Speaker 2: don't remember, but we've worked through that over the years.
50:10
Speaker 2: But that was I didn't have a choice.
50:14
Speaker 1: I'm standing here, care you did have a choice, nothing
50:16
Speaker 1: but Bill's and a five year old, and I needed
50:18
Speaker 1: the money.
50:19
Speaker 2: It's amazing, as she would have said that, I mean,
50:20
Speaker 2: things look so different all these years later, like wow.
50:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was kind of it was in that moment
50:26
Speaker 1: I just thought, oh, you're you're a simple mom, like
50:29
Speaker 1: I could understand, you know. So yes, So the book
50:33
Speaker 1: comes out and I started doing the book book tour
50:36
Speaker 1: and started doing you know, slowly started doing some public
50:39
Speaker 1: speaking universities, corporations, so amazed.
50:43
Speaker 2: Hy WCA, Well, tell us, okay, so tell us what's
50:46
Speaker 2: going on now? Tell us what's going There's a event
50:47
Speaker 2: coming up on the eleventh of November.
50:49
Speaker 1: November thirteenth, thirteenth.
50:50
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, eleventhys that's okay, thank you eleven thirteen
50:54
Speaker 2: in her voice, and illinoise.
50:55
Speaker 1: Please tell us about yes YWCA, which I love speaking
50:58
Speaker 1: with them, working with them. They are amazing, and you know,
51:02
Speaker 1: we all know how incredible their work is. And they
51:04
Speaker 1: are in Evanston, Illinois. So I will be there on
51:07
Speaker 1: November thirteenth in her voice, and it will be in
51:10
Speaker 1: my voice. Love it, I love it, I love it.
51:12
Speaker 1: I love you. I love you too. I'm so proud
51:14
Speaker 1: of you. Thank you, and thank you for letting me
51:16
Speaker 1: share my story with more people.
51:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, Taylor, thank you so much for continuing to share
51:21
Speaker 2: your story. You are definitely helping to save people from
51:23
Speaker 2: the grips of their abusers and just know that they
51:26
Speaker 2: aren't alone. You guys, this podcast is about you, the listeners.
51:31
Speaker 2: Do you have questions when it comes to your chapter two?
51:33
Speaker 2: Not sure where to even start? Call us or email
51:35
Speaker 2: us all the infos in the show notes, follow us
51:38
Speaker 2: on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast.
51:41
Speaker 2: I Do Part two an iHeart podcast where falling in
51:44
Speaker 2: love and loving yourself is the main objective.