Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Daytona 500 Fuel Saving: "This Is Not A Good Look" | Mark Martin Archive #6

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Daytona 500 Fuel Saving: "This Is Not A Good Look" | Mark Martin Archive #6 · Kenny Wallace Media

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What's up everybody, Episode 6 of the Mark Martin Archive
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Podcast. I'm Charlie Marlow.
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There's Mark Martin. There's Matt Martin.
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It is the Great American Race Daytona 500 edition.
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Gentlemen, how you guys doing today?
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I'm excited about our podcast. Today I'm looking forward to it.
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Yeah, it should be a good one. All right, I feel like the best
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way to do this, first of all, Mark is just I'm not going to
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try to frame the conversation negatively, positively neutral.
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I'm just going to tee you up and throw it to you and and give us
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your thoughts on the good old Daytona 500 yesterday.
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I've got a bunch to say. I was really excited about this
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one, about the start of the year, so much positive momentum
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with the points change and, you know, and some of the marketing
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going on and just was very optimistic.
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And then, you know, I, I'm, I, I love BJ McLeod.
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BJ won every Dang race that I took Matt to in Florida when he
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was racing. BJ was running late models and
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winning everything. I know he's in a tremendous
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competitor. He basically got into the race.
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I was so excited for him that I wanted to help him in any way
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that I could other than scratch 1/4 of $1,000,000 check.
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And so I sent him a message and he called me right away and he
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said man, I don't race anymore unless I have all the right
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stuff. He says I got a A plus engine,
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you know, same engine that our, you know, Richard Childress
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engine, same as said on the pole.
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I got a #1 engine. I got a good car.
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Do you think I should save gas? And I said no, force those, go
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to the front, get some exposure and hopefully you'll get more
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backing going forward. So I was excited for the
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underdogs, BJ and CJ Mears, you know, we're just so excited for
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them, you know, Carl Long and and that group to be in the
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race. And I was hoping that, you know,
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they could really show out and force some of the other guys to
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not save as much gas and, you know, they're wiped out in the
2:31
first five laps. And honestly, I, I fought myself
2:38
to not be discouraged and be down because my whole outlook to
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that race was for that. Like kept telling myself that's
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going to be a great race. Just hang on, It's going to be a
2:47
great race. So anyway, I'm not going, I'm
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going to be careful about pulling for anybody anymore
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because I am the worst luck ever, you know, because I
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wanted, I wanted Kyle Busch or Denny Hamlin to win for
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sentimental values. And neither of them had any luck
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whatsoever. So I'm, I have to be careful
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about that. But to get on with the race, you
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know, I didn't have problems with the first stage.
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You know, it's obvious these guys can't race without
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wrecking. And so it was obvious since they
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weren't wrecking that they weren't racing.
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And you know, you bring in the the stage and everybody starts
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racing for the points and why they do they wreck.
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That brought some excitement and intrigue into it.
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Not that that's something that I I would rather get excitement
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and intrigue some other way, but kudos.
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To the first stage, the end of the thing.
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Wound up and I'm like, yeah, this race is this race is good.
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I'm all positive. It kind of the same thing
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happened in the second stage as well.
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I was totally satisfied with what I was seeing, you know,
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and, and knowing that it was going to come down to the last
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20 laps was going to be insane. And, and, and, and you knew that
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it was really, really, really hard to take.
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I was pissed for the fans that didn't know that they were in a
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three rot wide half throttle saving saving gas.
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I was mad that they didn't. The ones that didn't know didn't
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know. I was mad for the ones that
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didn't know. And I was also pissed because
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this is our greatest drivers of the greatest stock car.
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Racing on earth and on the biggest stage we have and we've
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got, you know, a field of nearly 40 cars running half throttle
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with the, with the, with the racetrack blocked.
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So the guys that didn't want to save fuel couldn't do anything
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about it. They couldn't go out and run out
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front and push everyone. The only option was for somebody
5:19
in the 2nd row to spin the front row out.
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And that would have been OK in my book.
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You know, they would have been asking for it, but they didn't
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do that because they were saving fuel too.
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And in my dumb self, I don't know how, if everybody in the
5:36
field is saving gas at the same time, what's the difference in
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that and running wide open? And it was it, that was a real
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struggle for me because it's a problem that there's not really
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a solution for. You know, people have a.
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Lot of ideas but you know this is the biggest stock car racing
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in the world on the biggest stage and if you make pit stops
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not count like you do in some of these other short track races,
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which I hate but it's done to save money.
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Don't let the RTA hear this because they'll probably want to
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do it and then they'll spend that money on more engineering.
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But if you. Take the pit pit stops away
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from, you know, the the the competition pit stops away.
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You're devaluing our series and our sport.
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You could you you know, you could eliminate the fuel saving
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thing, but you know that that would be a horrible look as well
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on our sport. I don't know that changing gas
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tank sizes, you know, is going to make any difference.
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If you're going to smaller and then they're still going to,
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they're going to save like crazy.
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I mean you could be like F1 and put a big enough tank in, but
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you can't do that because it would be so dangerous.
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To put a. A, you know, a big enough, big
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enough gas tank in that you could run the whole race.
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That can't be done either. There's not a good solution for
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that. Now let's move on to the last 20
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laps. Yeah, boy, we got to see some
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some big time racing. We got some strategy.
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That last 20 laps was hard to beat.
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That was as good a Daytona 500 as you can see if you just took
7:37
everything else out. So you're going to see the fans
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say it was a great race because they saw what they saw the last
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20 laps. I applaud.
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It was fabulous. It was all different strategies,
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a lot of different ways that certain people could have went
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one and it all comes down to, you know, to the last lap,
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crazy, crazy double wreck 2 wrecks on the last lap actually,
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but it was it was an awesome. Finish.
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It was a great story for for Tyler Reddick to win the race,
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great for MJ, great for, you know, having the the lawsuit
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settled and all that stuff. It's kind of in your face, guys.
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There was a lot of cool stuff about that and about that win
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about, you know, Chase Elliott looking like he had it and have
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it slipped by. Lots of emotions for lots of
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fans. That's what we want.
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I wish we didn't. Have that.
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Kind of chaos, but that's the day and age we live in.
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Let me tell you, if you try to fix that, you'll wind up.
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You could wind up with a three car draft breakaway and 3rd
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place with no chance to pass for the win.
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I would support. That, but our sport, our fans,
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the industry can't have that. You can't have that kind.
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If you have that kind of finish, OK, that's fine if it happens
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organically. But if you've if you change the
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rules to where we have that kind of finish consistently, it's
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going to hurt. That would hurt our sport as
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well. So we got in the end, we've got
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a great Daytona 500, but boy, we had some ugly stuff, you know,
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happen in there and some some issues that I don't see being
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able to to fix. And Matt, your thoughts?
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Yeah, I mean, I thought that was a cool win for Tyler Reddick and
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and MJ, you know, after the lawsuit and everything.
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That's really neat for those guys.
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You know, Dad, I think you're right on the money.
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You know, you try to fix one thing and you cause another
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problem. You know, my thought, my
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thoughts were on the the gas saving stuff.
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I mean, what if you took away, you're just throwing this out
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there. What if you only limited the pit
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crews to 1 air gun and so that would cause the pit stop to take
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longer? That would certainly solve the
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issue at a lot of race tracks. But at Daytona and Talladega,
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they're not in a Goodyear's, not in a position to make a tire,
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sorry enough at that kind of speed to force them to to need
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to change tires. I mean, some of those guys ran
10:51
forever on tires. OK, So what that says is you
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need to take handling away if you take enough handling away to
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make them start a have to having to change tires.
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Then you're going to get yourself in a possible scenario
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of A-23 car breakaway at the end.
11:11
So I, I like the 11 air wrench rule.
11:15
I like that. I think that would, that would
11:18
solve, you know, the problem at many of the tracks and still
11:24
keep the competition in it. I would love to see the race
11:27
teams with that kind of challenge, but but the race
11:32
tracks like Daytona and Talladega and some of the others
11:35
that are so fast that Goodyear can't figure out a Safeway to
11:39
make it where the tires go bad enough that they have to change
11:44
them regularly. I I don't I don't know of a
11:47
solution for that. And one thing that I would hate
11:51
about that is, you know, a lot of guys down Pit Rd. of course
11:55
would lose their jobs. But, you know, it's just when
11:58
you're trying to come up with a way to make these pit stops take
12:02
longer. I mean, you can't, according to
12:05
everything that we've heard, they can't go back to five lugs
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on this car. Just the way it's designed, the
12:12
wheels, you know, is it's there. It won't be strong enough to
12:16
hold the wheel together. So, yeah, I don't know.
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That's a tough situation. I don't know what you do to fix
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that. I don't either.
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We desperately need the race on Pit Rd.
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We need, we need that to be part of the equation to make it more
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interesting, make more competition, you know, and make
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it more of a team sport. So I I don't think you know, I
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don't. Think making pit.
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Stops where you you can make your stop and come back out the
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same spot. I don't think we can do that.
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That would that would just devalue our sport.
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That would solve our issue. But I didn't.
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I've seen them do that in a Truck Series and I can't even
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stand it bothers me to watch their races when when they do
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that. And I watch late model races
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like that as well. And I just really, I need to see
13:15
more competition than just the racetrack thing.
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I need more strategy. You know, if you take strategy
13:23
out, if you do that, you put 4 tires on and you top them off of
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gas every time and there's No 2 tires or, or, or no tires and
13:32
not any staying out really, you know, because you know, the guys
13:36
that that pit, they can come right back out and line up, you
13:40
know, right behind them. So I don't really, I don't
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really have any kind of solution for it.
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We need to think, keep thinking about it, but Dang, man, you
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know, I, I'm, I feel like probably Atlanta will be the
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same way. Talladega will certainly be the
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same way. When we get to race tracks where
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they have to change tires. That is a is a plus, but they
14:08
still need to, they need to figure out how the tire change
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lasts longer than the fuel. And you know, one of the ideas
14:18
was lugg wrench rule instead of a air wrench.
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And dude, I don't know what they, I don't know, they torque
14:26
those things at 5 or £600. That ain't going to work.
14:31
You know, when you had a steel wheel and you could put trailer
14:36
hitch balls on the end of a, a, a love wrench and you could spin
14:40
that sucker and it was heavy when it hit, it would hit tight
14:44
enough to move to the next one and you didn't even have to
14:47
crank on it. But to do it with this and try
14:51
to, you know, get enough torque in the that aluminum wheel that
14:55
they need, that's not an option either.
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Yeah, to me, what what I want, what I think fans want also
15:04
based on a lot of comments I see, they just, they just want
15:07
green flag passing. And Mark, you mentioned the
15:11
perception of the race in the the famous Jeff Gluck poll.
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I just looked over 18,000 votes and it was 74% said it was a
15:19
good race like you said. So big picture people think it
15:23
was a a good race. You had the good finish.
15:25
It did get really good last 20 minutes.
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Then you have all the the pomp and circumstance, the flyovers,
15:31
the anthem, the the colors, Kid Rock and all that.
15:33
Really cool, obviously. So again, 74% say it was a good
15:38
race, but when they're fuel saving in that third stage,
15:42
which it was really obvious with the blocking there, you have a
15:44
couple tweets and you say this is not a good look.
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And also I'm glad I'm not in the booth and your this is not a
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good look. Tweet also got 460,000 likes.
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So probably some of the same people that liked the race big
16:00
picture did not like that at all that third stage.
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And you said something earlier about fans not knowing and maybe
16:08
when you're at the track, but I feel like when you're watching
16:10
on TV, it is pretty obvious when there's no green flag passing.
16:15
And I know they'll say there's a lot of passes because the cars
16:18
are going like this in a line. But I truly believe NASCAR fans
16:22
know better than that. Most of them do.
16:26
Some of them do, most of them do.
16:28
And I'm going to give credit to Kevin Harvick and and, you know,
16:35
and Boyer, I mean, they both threaded the needle very well
16:42
there. I mean, you know, it's their job
16:45
to make this race compelling and exciting.
16:49
But yeah, they did expose them. I mean, they could have, you
16:53
know, they could have been more brutal, but they they they did
16:57
not try to hide it. You know, they were, they were
17:00
honest with the fans. In fact, you know, both Boyer
17:05
and Harvey, you know, pretty much said that's what you, you
17:08
know, that's what you do. That's what you have to do.
17:11
You know, and, and it is true. I had someone on X say, oh come
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on Mark, you would have done the same thing.
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You know, that's how you get the trophy.
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I wouldn't argue that. You know, that's why the 2nd row
17:27
didn't spin the front row out when they were doing it because
17:30
they needed to save 2 big, you know, but that doesn't make it
17:35
right. It doesn't make it good for our
17:38
sport. My point was this doesn't look
17:41
good to the world, not to just me, but to the world.
17:48
This doesn't look good and it didn't.
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And it you know, I'm sorry, you know, it, it just it didn't, but
17:56
I don't have a solution for it. And we wound up having a good
18:01
race. So All in all, I wish we could,
18:04
I wish we could figure something out.
18:06
I saw some drivers after the race say that we have to fix
18:10
that. And I think Blaney said it, You
18:12
know, we have to fix it. Boy, I hope he comes up with,
18:16
you know, a solution because I certainly cannot come up with a
18:21
solution that doesn't have other harmful implications to our
18:28
sport. Yeah, and I know, I know fans
18:31
hate when I make stick and ball references, but I do.
18:34
I think about baseball about five years ago, the games were
18:38
too long. You had relievers coming in,
18:40
left-handed relievers to throw to 1 batter.
18:43
And you had just all these, these defensive shifts which
18:47
took away offense. Baseball realized they needed
18:50
more offense. They speed the game up with a
18:52
pitch clock. They got rid of these extreme
18:55
defensive shifts and they did all these things to increase
18:58
offense. And to me, fuel saving in NASCAR
19:02
is defensive and we need more offense.
19:05
Offense is passing. And again, I don't like all the
19:09
the stick and ball references because NASCAR fans get mad at
19:12
me. But all these sports that are
19:13
succeeding, they're changing the rules to have more offense.
19:17
And when I watched that race yesterday, I just wanted more
19:20
passing, and that's where it was so obvious.
19:23
The second to fuel saving was over in that third stage.
19:26
It was incredible. Like you said, it was night and
19:29
day. It was like a different sport.
19:32
Yeah, it was business picked up and everybody loved what they
19:35
saw. I'm not saying we need to see
19:38
500 miles of it, and we saw a little piece of that at the end
19:42
of each stage. But golly, that lasts, like you
19:47
say, 20 minutes, 202030 laps. That's, that's what people are
19:54
paying for, you know, and that's what put people in the, in the
19:57
stands. I know viewership is, is, is
20:00
crucial, but I'm still a big, you know, supporter of getting
20:07
more people in the stands for these races.
20:11
I think that's important to our sport.
20:14
And how about just the the weekend in its entirety?
20:18
The the positives. All these races ended under
20:21
green flag finishes NASCAR. They weren't quick to throw the
20:24
yellows and it did seem like the the weekend, the weekend as a
20:28
whole, it was a lot of fun starting with the truck race.
20:31
You had Tony Stewart, you had Cletus McFarlane, you had Travis
20:35
Pastrana. Austin Hill wins the O'Reilly
20:38
Auto Parts race. He's a a superspeedway maven.
20:42
So again, we we're focusing on the Cup race.
20:45
But I do think it was a good opening weekend for NASCAR.
20:48
Just across the board, a lot of fun, a lot of hype there.
20:52
There was a lot of positivity as well.
20:55
Positive, man. I, I thought it was the truck
20:58
race was really good. Pretty much the whole race.
21:02
I, I thought it was great. I watched until maybe 10 laps to
21:08
go in the O'Reilly race and I thought it was a pretty good
21:13
race up until that point. I didn't get to see the finish.
21:21
My wife and I had Valentine's dinner reservations that I that
21:27
we had to make. So I didn't get to see the
21:28
finish of it. And Austin wasn't leading, you
21:32
know, when when we shut it off. So I didn't get to see what
21:35
happened there. But I feel like that was a great
21:37
race. I think overall the Cup race was
21:40
a was a good race. You know, you have to remember,
21:44
you know, the purist want to believe that the 1976 finish or
21:49
the 1979 finish or, or some of these others 98 or, or or
21:57
something like that, you know, is the is is the Holy Grail.
22:02
But we have to remember that today is racing everywhere is
22:07
different than it was then. And I think overall we had as
22:12
positive of experience all weekend.
22:17
I even, you know, I watched the ARCA race because I'm going to
22:21
be, I'm going to be tuned into these Arca ARCA races because
22:26
they're the next ones. I'm, I'm interested to see, you
22:30
know, those, there's a 1-2 or three in there that are going to
22:36
make the steps and I want to, I want to know before they make
22:40
their, their step, you know, I want to be able to grade them
22:43
before they make their step and so that I see them coming.
22:46
I didn't. See.
22:47
Corey Heim coming. I wasn't work.
22:50
I wasn't watching close enough, so I'm going to be watching
22:53
closer this time. But yeah, positive weekend,
22:58
positive momentum. I hate they're going to another
23:01
drafting track, but usually you wind up with a spectacular
23:07
finish again. And if fans, 3/4 of the fans say
23:12
it was a good race after you this time next week, kudos.
23:17
We're off to a good start. Even if I don't love it.
23:20
You know, that doesn't, you know, it's all about the
23:23
majority. If the majority, you know, is in
23:26
on the positive side and, and, and are liking what they're
23:31
seeing, then we're headed in the right direction.
23:35
And in a couple of days here we have the 25th anniversary of the
23:39
passing of Dale Earnhardt. They had a really good
23:42
documentary if you guys saw it after the duels the other night.
23:46
And I know Matt and Mark, you have a lot of discussion about
23:50
that and also Daytona. So Matt, I'll, I'll toss it to
23:53
you because I know you guys have some great Dale Earnhardt
23:56
memories. Yeah, absolutely.
23:58
You know, here in a couple days, Well, actually the 18th, it's
24:01
the 16th that we're recording this.
24:04
It'll be 25 years since Dale's accident.
24:09
You know, obviously a tragic day for, you know, NASCAR and the
24:14
NASCAR community. You know, I was real young when
24:17
that happened. But, you know, my question to
24:21
dad was how difficult was it when you heard Mike Hilton's,
24:25
you know, announcement that we had lost Dale?
24:27
What do you recall from that day?
24:29
And you know, what was your first thought and feeling when
24:33
you heard that? So knowing Mike Hilton the way I
24:37
do, you know, we were all really close to Mike and it was painful
24:42
to see Mike have to to deliver that message because he was at
24:48
the time, he's who we looked 2 as the the person that ran
24:53
NASCAR the same way we would have Bill French junior.
24:57
We knew that all of us knew how close Dale was with Mike.
25:04
So it was painful to see Mike have to deliver that number one.
25:09
Number two, you know, it was something that we had already,
25:14
you know, we had already figured out, you know, the, the, the
25:18
word was, was out before he made the announcement, but it was it
25:23
was that final blow. It really made it real.
25:28
You know, you kept hoping that, you know, what you had been
25:31
hearing wasn't, you know, wasn't right.
25:35
And dude, it was it was dark. It's, it's, it's a tough time
25:41
anytime you hear someone that you know or close to passes
25:46
away. But this was, this was Dale
25:49
Earnhardt. You know, this, this was, he
25:54
meant everything to the sport and competitors and fans,
26:00
whether they liked him or not. You know he meant everything to
26:04
all the fans and it was a gigantic loss.
26:10
What do you think made Dale Earnhardt resonate so much with
26:15
the fan base and really just America in general?
26:18
I mean, he, it's like, you know, all you guys would joke about in
26:22
the garage area, like he made-up like 90% of the merchandise
26:25
sales. Like, you know, all you guys are
26:27
just everybody else. I mean, he was like the poster
26:30
guy for NASCAR. What?
26:32
What do you think it is that made him resonate so much?
26:36
The he identified with the blue collar because he certainly was
26:42
totally unapologetic, ruthless racer, you know, all those
26:52
things. And he won a lot and he ruffled
26:56
lots of feathers And that that made him, you know, that that
27:02
made his detractors or haters, you know, more vocal and louder,
27:08
which made the ones that were for him more vocal and louder
27:13
and wanted to support his merch. And he, his merch thing was way
27:22
over 10 times. You know what my merch was and
27:25
my merch was top five, you know, in in the 90s, certainly top
27:31
five. But I mean, he was way over 10
27:34
times my numbers. He was, he really resonated with
27:39
the regular guy. They were able to identify with
27:44
Dale, and Dale was their hero because he was out there doing
27:48
it like they would if they could, you know?
27:51
Yeah, he always kind of remind me like Stone Cold Steve Austin,
27:56
you know, like Dale was a NASCAR version of Stone Cold Steve
27:59
Austin. I mean, the reason why I always
28:01
thought Stone Cold was so popular, you know, in that in
28:04
his area, the Attitude area of, you know, the WWF, it's like he
28:09
was the heroic version of the fan base, you know?
28:13
And it's like, I love, you know, I love that guy.
28:15
And it's like Dale was kind of like the racing version of that.
28:19
Absolutely, yeah, he was. You know, his fans loved him and
28:27
they didn't like anybody that threatened, threatened him in
28:32
any way or his dominance on the racetrack or whatever.
28:36
I was so good for the sport, Dale.
28:39
You know, I think Dale did even more.
28:43
I mean, Richard Petty did tons for NASCAR's growth, but Dale
28:51
even more because Richard was a big winner and a big fan
28:56
favorite. But he wasn't nearly as
28:59
controversial as as as Dale. So Dale was able to inspire an
29:06
awful lot of blood pressure in the in the fans realm.
29:13
What do you think made Dale such an incredible race car driver?
29:17
I mean, you know, he just, there's a couple guys throughout
29:21
NASCAR history, you know, that they just seem like they stand
29:24
head and shoulders, you know, way above everybody else.
29:27
And obviously, he's certainly one of them.
29:30
Man, I I said, you know that people that didn't know Dale
29:37
Earnhardt, you know, just saw him on the racetrack, thought he
29:40
was aggressive driver. But I said, and I still believe
29:45
it's a fairly accurate statement, Dale would throw his
29:50
mother in the river to win a race.
29:53
Then after the race he'd go back and pull her out because he was
29:57
a good dude, had a good heart. But man, he showed none of that.
30:04
He was merciful. I mean, on the race track he had
30:13
a lot of skill, but he had a just amazing determination.
30:19
The guy would never give up. He would never just say my car's
30:23
not any good. I can't tell you how many times
30:27
he beat me with a slower car just out of sheer will.
30:33
Yes, he always, you know, all the footage you've ever seen of
30:36
him, whenever you're going to pass him, he always looked like
30:40
such a difficult guy to pass, even when he wasn't having a
30:42
good day, You know, it just really seemed like he could get
30:45
the most out of, you know, his car, you know, almost faster
30:50
than anybody else could. Yeah, and he was, you know, he,
30:53
he wasn't big on getting past, even if he was, even if his car,
30:57
even if he knew he wasn't any good.
30:59
I was in a Bush race at Darlington and I think it was 88
31:06
or 80 and I think it was 1989. And I was ridiculous fast, but I
31:12
had had a bad pit stop or whatever.
31:15
And I come up to catch him and he, you know, I mean, I'm like
31:19
ridiculously fast. And so I pass him in what is now
31:24
one and two and coming off of two.
31:27
He hung on my right rear. Back then nobody did that.
31:31
Well, I kind of just squished him off, you know, I, I acted
31:37
like he gave me room and he really didn't.
31:39
And you know, it almost got him in the wall and I was able to
31:42
keep going. Well, this thing went green for
31:45
a long time and before the next green flag pit stop, I come all
31:52
the way around and lapping, that's how much faster I am.
31:56
And when I go by, he hangs out the middle finger #1 you know,
32:02
as I'm lapping him because he, you know, so he lets me know
32:06
that he certainly didn't appreciate me squeezing him off.
32:10
But you know, that's how hard he raced with how slow of a car.
32:16
I mean, it had to be, you know, 6060 laps.
32:21
I made a whole lap on him and come back around, you know.
32:25
So it was, it was, it was, it was tough racing with him, but
32:30
he always raced me. You know, we had a couple of
32:34
scuff UPS, but he always raced me.
32:36
I watched him race other people and I will say everyone else I
32:42
watched close because I always wanted to race someone how they
32:47
raced me. Well, he raced me differently.
32:52
I mean, we did have a couple of dust UPS, but you're going to
32:55
have that in racing. He he didn't, he was always, he
33:05
wasn't nearly as rough on me as he was a lot of the guys.
33:09
Yeah, that's, you know, what I wanted to bring up while we were
33:12
talking about him. You know, I've watched so much
33:14
footage from back, back then of you guys racing together.
33:18
And you know, everybody's got this thing about Dale.
33:22
He he bump and run people. He'd move people out of the way,
33:24
he'd wreck people and everything.
33:26
And maybe that's true for for other guys, but I have not ever
33:30
found like one clip of him moving you, wrecking you.
33:34
Now, you guys made a lot of contact.
33:37
You probably, you know, banged doors with him more than anybody
33:41
else in your career. But I mean, he he would race you
33:46
fair. And I think, you know, of course
33:48
you did. You treated him the same way.
33:51
So that was kind of my question, which I guess you you partly
33:55
answer that Dale must have raced you a little bit differently
33:58
now. Did you race him a little bit
34:00
differently than you did everybody else?
34:02
No, I gave Dale, you know, I, I gave him respect before I was
34:08
running good and, and, and and when I started running good, you
34:15
know, I expected kind of the same respect and, and he gave
34:20
it. So I was able to now, you know,
34:24
we, we raced really, really hard.
34:27
Some other drivers might concede when you had them where Dale
34:34
wouldn't so it would get ferocious.
34:39
But it never got dirty or wrong, you know, or questionable.
34:45
It had to be done with respect and it I'll tell you if you even
34:49
thought about disrespecting Dale, he would eat you a lot.
34:53
That's why I was lucky. I was dreading.
34:55
I saw him at, at, at, at Darlington.
34:58
I was coming up to lap him and I was like, Oh no, I'm going to
35:03
have to pass him after I squeezed him off, you know, But
35:06
he just gave me the finger and, and let it go at that.
35:10
But I was, I was expecting to get, you know, eat some, some
35:13
concrete or something. So I felt like it was my duty to
35:19
make damn sure that I always raced with proper etiquette with
35:25
him. And if I did that, you know, I,
35:29
I felt like he would, he would give it back.
35:31
I never expected anything out of out of line from Dale when I was
35:37
coming up to pass him or racing him to pass him or he was racing
35:42
to pass me. I I learned early that I could
35:47
expect, you know, proper etiquette.
35:51
Hard racing, hard as it could get, but but fair.
35:58
Well, you know, we've heard you and and Rusty and so many other
36:01
guys talk about, you know, what he was like, you know, in the
36:04
race car on the racetrack. You know, one thing that always
36:09
has stood out to me, you know, running more Martin Archive and
36:13
all the stuff that I've been doing to prepare for your book
36:15
is just how many video clips and photos that I've found of you
36:21
and Dale just, you know, hanging out together in in the garage
36:25
area, you know, and usually you guys are are laughing, you know,
36:29
what was he like outside of the race car?
36:32
You know, that's what I feel like a lot of fans don't hear
36:35
enough about, you know, they hear about, you know, he, he was
36:38
the intimidator on the racetrack, but he was really a
36:41
little bit different of a person when he was outside the race
36:44
car. He really liked to cut up and,
36:47
and I think he liked to cut up with people.
36:49
He liked, you know, he loved, loved Neil Bonnet, you know, and
36:53
of course I did too, you know, and, and the people that we were
36:57
around. I mean, he was, he liked to have
36:59
fun. He liked to cut up.
37:01
I just saw a video that I had completely forgot from 1990.
37:07
You know, when we're battling, it's right down to the
37:10
championship, you know, I don't know, just a few races from the
37:14
end of the season. I'm still leading the points and
37:19
it's at the drivers intros and somehow or another Arlene, maybe
37:24
I had to go do a, a interview or something.
37:28
And then I I come back up. Well, he's got Arlene sitting on
37:32
his lap, you know, and he's smiling because he thinks he's,
37:36
you know, he thinks he's cool. He's going to take no, take my
37:39
woman, you know, And you know, he's cutting up, you know, like,
37:45
like he was, he was trying, but it was in a fun way, you know.
37:49
And I told him, well, you know, that'd be OK as long as I got
37:55
the championship, which I never heard back from Arlene about
37:59
that. But we were all cutting up, you
38:01
know. And so, I mean, he was there
38:06
were times when we had some good fun and felt some warmth.
38:12
You know, there were sometimes when we had some rubs.
38:17
Gosh, you, I don't I can't imagine not having that,
38:20
especially with, you know, when they all had to have a a monster
38:26
ego from you know, I mean, he was the man, but yet he he
38:34
really, you know, acted, you know, outside the race car.
38:39
He acted like a clown sometimes and like to joke around and have
38:43
fun and you know, he he was he was just a lot of fun.
38:49
I had a lot of fun with him. I had some sometimes when it
38:53
wasn't so fun. He was pretty strategic with, I
38:58
mean, golly, he was friends with, I mean Ricky Rudd, even
39:02
though they were what I would consider pretty arch enemies.
39:08
Now, I don't know if he ever went out to dinner with because
39:12
he did with Ricky after they had had lots of dust UPS, you know,
39:16
and then he went right back to being, you know, an adversary of
39:20
Ricky's butt. I don't know if he did that with
39:23
Bow down. Now I'm telling you, there was
39:26
no love lost between those two because I was a witness to it.
39:33
What's so funny about that? That 89 North Wilkesboro race
39:37
when you know him and Ricky Rudd tangled was just man, that was
39:41
just salt and wound. That Jeff Bodine won that race.
39:45
I mean, that's gosh, man. Yeah, I didn't think about that,
39:50
but yeah, that had to make him even triple mad about that.
39:55
Yeah. Didn't you say because you
39:57
finished second, I think, didn't you say you saw that?
40:01
You saw, you saw it happen. Oh, I was, I was running, you
40:04
know, or was I running 4th or 5th right there?
40:10
I mean, you know, I'm, I'm past the start finish line when
40:13
they're turning into the corner and they're making that arc and
40:17
I, I got my eyes right on it. I'm that's what I'm looking at.
40:21
And so that goes right. They go around and of course I
40:24
get all over the brakes, you know, trying to get through and,
40:30
you know, I get through. And then once I get through, I
40:33
was like, Dang, man, I might have could have won the race if
40:36
I hadn't slowed down, you know, 'cause they both spun up the
40:39
hill and I was like kept, you know, kicking myself thinking,
40:43
you know, your response was to slow down because there's a
40:46
wreck in front of you. But you know, and it was a mess.
40:51
But, you know, I thought I may have missed an opportunity to
40:54
get that win, you know, by by not throwing caution to the
40:58
winds. So yeah, yeah, I ran.
41:01
SI was the second one to get through it.
41:02
Of course, Bodon was the first one.
41:04
It's. Crazy.
41:06
That reminds me, it's a little random but I wonder if that was
41:09
the race it could have been the year before where you disguise
41:14
yourself as a day Earnhardt fan to get out of the track.
41:17
Is 1 in North Wilkesboro. No, that was Martinsville.
41:21
Yeah, 'cause there's not a ton. Yeah, yeah.
41:24
But I needed, I needed to do it at Wilkesboro because Wilkesboro
41:27
got really crazy the last few years because it was, it was the
41:31
same way as Martinsville. There was only one gate to go
41:34
out of. And you know, the fans just got
41:37
to where they lined up, you know, because you pretty much
41:41
the drivers were able to park inside, but it would be a
41:46
traffic jam driving out. So you would be parked with Fans
41:51
Rd., you know, down the road on both sides trying to get out.
41:55
So it was a it was a pretty wild time there, too.
41:59
So would you wear a Dale Earnhardt shirt you got in the
42:01
back seat of the rental car? And you had my sister Rachel
42:04
drive out. And didn't you say that people
42:08
looked in the car and saw you in your Dale Earnhardt gear?
42:10
And so there's Mark Martin. Yeah, they figured it out.
42:13
Yeah, yeah. But that got to be.
42:16
And then after, after I did that, it got to be more drivers
42:20
tried that stunt. It was really, really in the
42:24
90s, it was hard to get out of Martinsville.
42:27
I mean, because you had that one gate and that row up to the
42:31
highway, you most drivers had to park out by the highway to ever
42:36
get out of there because there's so many people.
42:38
So we would Parkway up by the highway.
42:40
So we'd have to walk with the fans for a mile to get to her
42:46
car. And so it was, it was pretty
42:50
well a wild mob up through there.
42:52
So a lot of us tried to get disguised to to try to get out
42:57
there. If I recall correctly, didn't
42:59
you say that, Dale, at least one time I dressed up as a Terry
43:03
Labonte fan? He did.
43:05
That's pretty funny when you think about the 2 Bristol races
43:08
later. Yeah, you know that.
43:11
That's the thing about Dale and Terry.
43:14
Terry was mild mannered, you know, and such a clean good
43:20
dude. You know, they even though those
43:24
those things happened at Bristol, there was never any
43:28
serious animosity. I mean, obviously Terry didn't
43:32
like it, but it was it never became a feud like, you know,
43:38
like like Bodon, you know, and I'm talking Jeff Bodon, of
43:42
course, like Jeff Bodon or Ricky Rudd.
43:46
Those two were those were flat out feuds.
43:51
So we kind of touched on this a little bit already, but you're
43:55
driving style and Dale's driving style are really cited by fans a
44:01
lot of the times as the two, two polar opposite styles.
44:06
Now, if you really pay close attention to all the footage out
44:10
there, you guys racing together, you know, you never backed down
44:14
from him at all. And in fact, that's why you guys
44:17
made so much contact over your your time racing together.
44:21
But you know, at the same time, he never wrecked you and that
44:25
Dale's supposed to be this, you know, dirty rough driver.
44:28
So what do you think it was? Why didn't he wreck you?
44:34
You know what? Why didn't he drive you the way
44:36
you did? Jeff Bodine.
44:39
I didn't ask for it, you know, and I didn't try to assert
44:44
myself as the, the biggest dog, you know, I didn't try to be the
44:50
big dog. All I was trying to be is there,
44:53
you know, I was trying to be there and, and I was racing for
44:57
my spot and I was raced for every spot I could.
45:02
And, and they'll, he, he respected that and appreciated
45:07
that. And my driving style was
45:10
different. His was hard charger from get
45:13
go. Mine was not from the get go.
45:17
Mine was all about the finish. And part of that was cultivated
45:22
from being racing on my own with no sponsorship money, totally
45:30
off the purse on a national stage at 20 years old.
45:35
You know, I paid my bills. I paid my, I had two employees
45:39
and I raced my car. I got all free parts except for
45:43
motors. So otherwise I couldn't have
45:45
done it. But I so all that mattered was
45:50
the finish position didn't matter to be showy, didn't
45:54
matter to lead the race. None of that mattered.
45:57
And so and then I went right into NASCAR with my own team in
46:02
the same thing. It was all about that purse
46:06
money, 100%. The first year I ran full time
46:09
in in in NASCAR, I had no sponsor.
46:14
Zebra did it all off of the money I could beg borrow and,
46:20
and, and purse money. And so that developed my style,
46:29
which it just wasn't worth tussling over a spot you could
46:35
pass back then. So it wasn't worth tussling over
46:39
a spot halfway through a race or a fourth of the way through the
46:44
race when half the time that guy that wanted to tussle for it, if
46:51
I let him go, he would wind up on the hook wrecked or his motor
46:56
blown up or he broke to, you know, whatever, man.
47:00
I had to nurse my equipment. I had to spend my whole race
47:04
concentrating on how am I going to drop the hammer this last run
47:09
after the last pit stop? How am I going to get the best
47:13
result I can get? And so that was that wound up
47:17
being ingrained in my style, and I've been criticized for it a
47:22
lot. But that's how I got my results.
47:26
And, you know, yeah, I mean, Dale and I raced tooth and nail,
47:33
but he respected, you know, how I did it.
47:37
And I never tried. I was never trying to be as big
47:43
as they earned her. I was just trying to win me some
47:46
races and that's all. I was just a little guy with
47:50
dirty hands trying to win some races.
47:54
And he, I think he respected that.
47:56
He respected my approach. And you know, and we miss, you
48:02
know, we just never really, we had a couple of dust UPS, don't
48:05
get me wrong, but that was Dale testing me to see if I would
48:10
revert to the Jeff Bodine. You know, he didn't like Jeff
48:15
Bodine cause Jeff Bodine complained and I did something
48:19
about it. I didn't say nothing, you know,
48:22
I would be the one to, you know, be like a rattlesnake, you know,
48:28
if you're going to do that, there's going to be
48:30
consequences. And it ain't going to be my
48:32
voice, you know, I mean, and, and we had zero.
48:38
I knew, man not to push his buttons because I knew there'd
48:43
be consequences. But I think Dale learned that
48:45
over time that I was a very respectful guy.
48:48
I was serious about my racing, my style was different and I
48:53
didn't. I didn't want to be him and I
48:55
didn't want to take his his spot in the sport, but I wanted to
48:59
win every what every race that I could.
49:04
Well, you know, as we close out here, you know, thinking about
49:09
Dale, you know, what are the races that that come to mind
49:13
when you think about Dale Earnhardt?
49:15
I mean, what, what are some of the most epic battles that you
49:18
ever had with him that it could be Cup series, Bush series, I
49:22
rock. I mean, just give us a couple
49:25
moments that you think of when you think of Dale Earnhardt.
49:30
Dover, both races in 1989 I was super fast and we were super
49:40
green. Roush Racing, we're super green.
49:44
I haven't won yet, but we're blistering fast.
49:49
And your cool suit failed. Oh yeah, that too.
49:52
So that's that's blistering as well.
49:54
Yeah, explain that too. As you, you know, tell the.
49:59
It gives context to this story. There were some cool suits
50:04
around back then and what they were were a rubber vest and and
50:10
little hat for your head and an ice chest over on the right hand
50:16
side of the car. That pump circulated ice water
50:20
through this vest, through the veins in the vest and through
50:25
your head, pretty thick leather rubber.
50:31
And so when they failed, when they stopped pumping the water,
50:37
they would be way hotter than nothing because you'd be you'd
50:42
have a rubber suit on. And they were not always super.
50:48
That's why a lot of guys didn't use them is because they weren't
50:52
always super reliable. And so, you know, 500 laps at
50:59
Dover back then, when you run the car sideways through the
51:02
corner and smoke the tires. In the summer.
51:06
In the summer is a good time to have this thing put where this
51:10
thing. So, so I, I put it on thing
51:14
fails early in the race and so it's brutal.
51:19
You know, one of the one of the comments is, you know, you know,
51:23
later on it's like, don't worry about I'm gonna be, I'm gonna,
51:26
I'm gonna, I'm gonna finish this race.
51:28
I'm gonna be. But just have a ambulance ready,
51:32
you know 'cause I'll be dead when I, when, when I cross the
51:35
start finish line, I'm gonna need the ambulance.
51:37
So anyway, yeah, we had a Daryl Dale and his team were probably
51:45
beating us off a pit Rd. probably had, you know, might
51:49
have had, you know, a slight advantage at times there or he
51:57
was better on restarts, whatever.
51:58
He kept getting in front of me. And so I was having to pass him.
52:03
And it was the, the one part that I really remember was after
52:06
the last pit stop is, is time to go and there's lap after lap
52:14
after lap that I and he gives me the inside so I can't hit him.
52:19
I mean, how are you going to move a guy when he gives you the
52:22
whole inside lane? I mean, that's why he didn't
52:26
ever wreck me because I wouldn't, you know, my, my
52:29
constitution says you can't do that.
52:32
So you can't drive and chase somebody into the corner and
52:34
wreck them when they gave you a spot, gave you the room to race.
52:38
He gave it to me. I smoke in the tires, smoke in
52:42
the right front tire, balling off the tire, smoke in the right
52:45
rear tire, get beside him over and over and over again.
52:49
And I can never quite clear him. And he knew how bad I needed to
52:53
win and wanted to win. And the fact I think this is
52:56
1989. So this is early on in our
53:00
relationship as far as me being able to take a win away from
53:05
him. I think he always remembered and
53:09
respected that because he knew how bad I needed and wanted to
53:12
win. And he beat me.
53:15
I could get up beside him and maybe break a nose ahead of him,
53:21
but then he'd run that outside and he he, I had plenty of room
53:25
on the bottom but I just couldn't pull it off.
53:29
And there again, my car was a lot faster than his.
53:32
So I really. Remember that race as as being a
53:35
wheel to wheel with him. And then I also remember that
53:38
same year, 1989 at Darlington had two races.
53:42
I always ran really good at Darlington and I ran second to
53:45
him in both races. So he was first and I was second
53:48
in both races. They had at Darlington the
53:50
spring and the fall race, so I remember that as well.
53:55
Those two. That was not a wheel to wheel
53:58
battle, but it was a frustrating thing because we handily beat
54:03
everyone else but couldn't beat him.
54:06
But he beat me with a slower car at at Dover, mostly because he
54:10
was ahead. If I could have come out of the
54:11
last pit stop ahead of him, I would have drove off into the
54:15
sunset. But you know, I just couldn't
54:18
manage the to complete the pass. Well, one race that I definitely
54:25
think of when I think of you guys battling as the 93 Southern
54:29
500 where you guys seem like you just kept passing each other
54:33
every other corner, you know, for half the race.
54:36
And then then finally you got around him and then then LED
54:40
pretty much the the rest of the race.
54:41
And and 1 you know, y'all, you guys had some epic battles at
54:47
Darlington in the early 90s and that was certainly one of them.
54:51
Well, it was and Dale was hard head, you know, and and so I had
54:57
to race him hard headed so in in a way.
55:01
So the thing was is that I was faster than Dale, obviously.
55:07
And in today's one and two, the one and two, today's one and two
55:11
there, you know, the crossover is very common.
55:16
So if Dale would have been faster than me, I wouldn't have
55:20
crossed him over down there, but he crossed me over.
55:26
So I'm like, OK, dawg. So every time we go into one and
55:32
two, you know, one would be we, you know, we we'd be passing
55:37
each other coming down the front stretch and whoever went into
55:40
one first will crossover. So I'd cross him back.
55:43
Next lap, he crossed me back. Next lap, I'd cross him back.
55:48
You know, we just kept doing because I was, I was not going
55:51
to lose that, you know, that battle, you know, that was, and
55:56
that's me. I, I never gave up.
55:58
I would have given up if he would have been faster because
56:01
we were wasting time. You see, the leader was driving
56:05
away while we were doing that. So with anyone else, I would
56:10
have quit wasting time. But with Dale, I couldn't do
56:14
that because if I did that, he might see that as weakness.
56:19
So I couldn't, I couldn't do that.
56:22
So we just wasted more time and time and time.
56:24
But, you know, yeah, so we just race.
56:27
Yeah, BB, Ned and and Bob Jenkins, they started laughing
56:31
because you guys kept doing that so much.
56:34
Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was just two hard heads
56:37
racing. Neither 1 going to give up and
56:40
and you know, it was clean racing, but it was hard man.
56:44
We were on the edge of control about to about to lose control
56:48
every inch of the way. But we were we were fighting
56:51
hard. Fans love that stuff, man.
56:54
Yeah, it's, I'm really excited because Nigel Kinrade, he has a
56:58
really great photo of you and Dale.
57:00
It's actually from the first Darlington race for 93, but
57:05
where he he won and and you ran second, but you guys there again
57:09
had the same type of battle. But there's a really phenomenal
57:12
photo he took of you guys in the corner side by side and that's
57:16
definitely going to go in the book.
57:18
So I can't wait for people to see that.
57:20
I think Nigel's actually posted that before, but it's one of the
57:24
best pictures of you guys I think ever on the racetrack
57:27
together. And I think I think Dale
57:30
Earnhardt fans are going to love Never Lift our book.
57:37
I think they're going to love it.
57:38
I really do. I think Rusty Wallace fans will
57:40
too. They're both large in in our
57:43
book. You know, they, they, they both
57:45
have a lot of presence there. They were very important in, in
57:50
my journey. And I think I think those fans
57:54
especially are going to love it. I think so too.
57:57
And you know, what's so wild about that is, you know, while
58:00
we were putting the book together, I mean, we didn't even
58:02
try to make it that way. I mean Dale's in it, you know,
58:05
obviously a lot. But really, I mean, Rusty is in
58:09
it all the way through pretty much.
58:11
And I mean, it's actually crazy how much he's brought up in in
58:17
the story. I mean it it just and we didn't
58:21
even, you know, try to make it that way.
58:23
You know, it just he's so part of your story that I mean, you
58:29
guys raced, you know, from the time you were kids up to the
58:32
time he he retired and it was a 2005.
58:36
So it's it's. Wild.
58:39
Yeah, it is. I, I, I really love, look
58:42
forward to sharing, especially that stuff with the fans about
58:46
Rusty because, you know, he and I were shoulder to shoulder.
58:51
And I say, he'll say we're friends.
58:54
I'll say we were friends because we would call each other from
58:59
time to time and whatever. We didn't necessarily hang out
59:02
together and go to dinner together, but we raced together,
59:06
we worked together, we worked on cars.
59:09
The story of me being his crew chief was one of the highlights
59:14
of and one of the highlight stories in the book.
59:17
I loved it. You know, he's like, hey man,
59:20
I'm going to go to Jackson to the race.
59:23
Jackson, Ms. And I wasn't going to race down there, but my
59:26
cousins and aunt and uncle live in Jackson.
59:29
I'm like, you need a crew chief. He says.
59:31
Hey, yeah, man. And so, you know, we went down
59:34
there and I'm telling you we were going to win the race.
59:37
We and and the whole stories in the book, but we were going to
59:40
win the race. Poor old motor blew up.
59:42
But but we were going to win the race.
59:45
We had the right strategy, the right tires.
59:48
He, he let me, you know, choose the tires.
59:51
We we put the hard fire stones on and we were still fast even
59:55
on the hard fire stones and we were going.
59:57
We will win that race. That's awesome.
1:00:00
I think that's a a good way to to close out.
1:00:03
I think this was a a good conversation.
1:00:06
Yeah, awesome guys. Before we we wrap the show,
1:00:08
though, I have to bring it full circle.
1:00:10
So, Mark, what do you think if Dale Earnhardt saw yesterday's
1:00:14
Daytona 500 the, the finish, what does he think of that?
1:00:17
And then also what if those 3 Toyotas are blocking Dale
1:00:20
Earnhardt in the Daytona 500? What's, what's Dale senior going
1:00:25
to do there? I give him two laps.
1:00:27
He'd probably give him a lap before he turned, turned them.
1:00:34
And I'm not saying that's wrong either.
1:00:38
You know, I, I really, I don't think we would be where we are
1:00:43
today if we had Dale. So I don't think it's fair to
1:00:46
put him, plug him into yesterday because, you know, a lot of
1:00:52
things have changed, a lot of things have evolved and many of
1:00:56
them would have evolved differently if we would have had
1:00:58
him still in, in our sport. Yeah, me and me and Dad have
1:01:05
actually talked about that, you know, quite a bit that if Dale
1:01:08
was still here, I mean, we wouldn't even NASCAR and the
1:01:13
sport of stock car racing, I don't think would even be in the
1:01:16
position that it's in right now. I I think if, if he was still
1:01:20
around, it would be in a much better and healthier position
1:01:24
than it is. I just think his influence was
1:01:27
just so great. You know, well said.
1:01:30
Let's end right there. Anything else from YouTube
1:01:32
before we close it down? I look forward to next week.
1:01:36
Yeah, me too. That was awesome.
1:01:38
Great, great recap and analysis of the Daytona 500 and then just
1:01:41
some some awesome stories about the great Dale Earnhardt and and
1:01:46
we'll re release that in a couple days here.
1:01:48
Everybody's always talking about Dale, but in a couple days
1:01:50
everybody's going to be celebrating him even more.
1:01:52
So thank you so much guys for Charlie Marlow, that's me for
1:01:56
Mark Martin and Matt Martin. We'll see you guys next week.
1:01:59
Thanks a lot. Thank you guys.
1:02:01
Thank you.