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We All Won/Lost The Debate | Political Capital Daily · Political Capital with Rob Shaw

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  Speaker 1: and this is Political Capital Tales.
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  Speaker 2: Well, good morning.
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  Speaker 1: Happy Thursday to you. The day after the televised leaders
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  Speaker 1: debate that can mean only one thing. We're going to
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  Speaker 1: bring in the entire pod squad here. Jeff Ferrier, Jillian Oliver,
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  Speaker 1: Allie Blades are all dialed in early this morning on
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  Speaker 1: your pod feed to give you the breakdown of the
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  Speaker 1: only televised leaders debate we get. Thank God. Or would
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  Speaker 1: we like another one? I don't know. I think we'll
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  Speaker 1: go with thank God there.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of the best way for us
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  Speaker 1: to go through this. Um, why don't we just start
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  Speaker 1: by going through the different leaders and how they did,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: and maybe that's the best way to, well, you know what,
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  Speaker 1: why don't we just start with overall impressions and then
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  Speaker 1: we'll go through the leaders here. Um, I don't know anyone,
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  Speaker 1: anyone can take this. We're free forming on the show here. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: first person to jump in gets to speak first. Go ahead.
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  Speaker 3: Can I just take a moment to talk about where
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  Speaker 3: did Eleanor Sturkle and Dallas Brody come from? Like I was,
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  Speaker 3: They both have, they have 30, about 30 candidates, respectively,
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  Speaker 3: and they just get to show up with a polished
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  Speaker 3: message and interject the real debate. But no one's voting
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  Speaker 3: for you guys.
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  Speaker 1: That was an interesting choice. I got a lot of
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  Speaker 1: emails in the last little while. People seem to think
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  Speaker 1: that I have some influence in the consortium. I did not,
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  Speaker 1: about the Centre BC not being allowed into the debate.
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  Speaker 1: And so I guess that was a move to, address
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  Speaker 1: that i don't know it was a it was a
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  Speaker 1: bit of a surprise but um the.
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  Speaker 3: Reality i hate it when we kumbaya too much like
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  Speaker 3: that's just it was unnecessary yeah yeah jeff the.
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  Speaker 4: The reality is reality is oh god i i thought
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  Speaker 4: that yeah go ahead well i what the okay here's
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  Speaker 4: my here's my rant i just want to start off
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  Speaker 4: with this.
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  Speaker 1: Who told evie he didn't have to wear a tie.
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  Speaker 4: I was about to say that. I was about to
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  Speaker 4: jump in and say that the big loser of this
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  Speaker 4: night was ties because EB didn't wear one. And you
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  Speaker 4: had this odd look of his screen that it couldn't,
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  Speaker 4: there was no podium at the bottom of it like
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  Speaker 4: the other ones. So you could just see kind of
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  Speaker 4: his tummy all the time without a tie there in
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  Speaker 4: front of it. And Lauren Dirksen's tie was crooked the
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  Speaker 4: whole night. That's funny.
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  Speaker 1: It's what the kids call the vibes. It's just like
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  Speaker 1: you get different vibes. I guess it wasn't important enough
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  Speaker 1: to put a tie on the only television.
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  Speaker 4: Tie fails. Tie fails all around.
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  Speaker 3: That's right.
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  Speaker 4: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Jillian, any initial thoughts came to your mind?
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  Speaker 2: I think that for a debate that like what should
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  Speaker 2: have been so consequential, I'm not.
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  Speaker 5: Sure that it changed much.
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  Speaker 2: Like there wasn't a clear winner, but there wasn't a
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  Speaker 2: clear loser either. Like they all kind of, hit on
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  Speaker 2: some things that they needed to accomplish, but I was
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  Speaker 2: really expecting, I don't know, I guess this, maybe this
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  Speaker 2: election has just felt so like stagnant and painful and
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  Speaker 2: in that way, the debate was kind of fitting, but, um, it, uh, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I was surprised. I don't think it changed, changed too
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  Speaker 2: much and there wasn't any, you know, like any really
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  Speaker 2: big standout moments. Um, they all kind of just did okay,
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  Speaker 2: you know?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's kind of, I feel a little bit the same way, but, but,
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  Speaker 1: Why don't we go through the leaders one by one here?
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  Speaker 1: Let's start with the guy who I think had the
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  Speaker 1: most to gain and the most to lose here, which
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to say is Lorne Dirksen, because he had
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  Speaker 1: to show up here. He had to do something to
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  Speaker 1: kind of convince people that it was okay to vote
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  Speaker 1: for him. He's an unknown. He's got to do this,
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  Speaker 1: introduce himself, tell people he is fit to lead, and
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  Speaker 1: that he doesn't command a crazy... band of yahoos that
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  Speaker 1: aren't deserving to be in government and also look normal
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  Speaker 1: and likable all in one. How do we think he did, Ali?
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  Speaker 1: Let's start with you.
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  Speaker 3: I think he did that. I think that people could
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  Speaker 3: see his line where he talked about how he was
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  Speaker 3: nervous as relatable. He was humble. He was gracious and
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  Speaker 3: he was respectful and to the certain extent that you
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  Speaker 3: can be in debates where you have to speak over
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  Speaker 3: one another. But I would actually argue that David Eby
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  Speaker 3: had the most to lose in this because he had
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  Speaker 3: to defend the election itself. He had to defend his
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  Speaker 3: NDP record, his record as the premier. And then he
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  Speaker 3: came across as a defensive, cynical person. And so it
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  Speaker 3: allowed this space where we could get to know leader
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  Speaker 3: Lauren Dirksen, but then also see Emily Lowenstein. And I
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  Speaker 3: thought that she did because she also isn't elected. So
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  Speaker 3: we don't get to see her in the legislature, for example,
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  Speaker 3: in this kind of sparring back and forth. So I
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  Speaker 3: thought that was a pretty cool dynamic to see her
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  Speaker 3: and what she would look like as an MLA.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Ali switched it up on me. The person with
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  Speaker 1: the most to lose is Evie. So Jeff, Jillian. Eby,
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  Speaker 1: what did you think of him?
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  Speaker 4: I'll jump in and I'll say that I think he
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  Speaker 4: accomplished what he wanted to accomplish, which makes it a
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  Speaker 4: successful debate for him. I don't think that there are debate,
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  Speaker 4: clear winners and losers. I think it's degrees of success
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  Speaker 4: for each one. And I think he was successful. His
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  Speaker 4: goal to my looking in at what he was thinking
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  Speaker 4: was to create doubt in the minds of swing voters
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  Speaker 4: who might not be that happy with the NDP, that
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  Speaker 4: they need to be worried about the Conservatives. And I
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  Speaker 4: think the way that he did that, and he came
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  Speaker 4: back to this time and time and time and time again,
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  Speaker 4: was the prospect of cuts and the Conservatives' inability and
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  Speaker 4: Dirksen's ability, certainly on stage tonight, to say how they
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  Speaker 4: were going to pay for $ 5 billion of uncosted election promises.
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  Speaker 4: And so he had to face his record. I think
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  Speaker 4: he did an okay job at that. There was a
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  Speaker 4: lot of talk over between different candidates. But I think
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  Speaker 4: where he succeeded best was in putting in the minds
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  Speaker 4: of swing voters that maybe these guys aren't ready to govern.
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  Speaker 1: I heard him say, quote, I'm not perfect. And another
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  Speaker 1: time he said, I know I haven't been perfect. And
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  Speaker 1: our government hasn't always been perfect. And I thought that
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  Speaker 1: was interesting, because I went into it thinking, if he
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  Speaker 1: really wanted to shine, he's going to need to apologize
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  Speaker 1: a little bit for some of his misjudgments of public sentiment.
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  Speaker 1: That's why he's the dissatisfaction rate on his government is
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  Speaker 1: so high in the polls. And he did that, which
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  Speaker 1: is rare. EB does not apologize for very often. I
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  Speaker 1: thought that was kind of interesting. I don't know if
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  Speaker 1: anyone else that jumped out for anyone else and effective
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  Speaker 1: in a way too, because he is not a leader
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  Speaker 1: known for humility or apology, but he did try a
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  Speaker 1: couple times there to kick it into gear. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know if anyone else thought that worked or not.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was interesting. And I thought it
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  Speaker 2: seemed sincere. And I think, you know, it is almost
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  Speaker 2: like an effective way to position relative to Dirksen, you know,
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  Speaker 2: he spent the first part of the debate really creating
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  Speaker 2: those doubts, making it seem risky, and then just to
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  Speaker 2: sort of end by positioning himself as sort of like
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  Speaker 2: this more stable choice.
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  Speaker 5: It's a really big.
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  Speaker 2: Shift from the first couple weeks of the campaign where
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  Speaker 2: they were talking about Trump and the chaos and stuff
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  Speaker 2: like that. It's, I think it's a more fitting contrast
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  Speaker 2: with Dirksen. Um, and I think, I think a little
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  Speaker 2: bit more of a believable one.
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  Speaker 1: Um, No Trump mentions at all, really like maybe one
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  Speaker 1: or two, but not a big focus on that.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I think that Dirksen on the other hand, though, seemed
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  Speaker 2: very kind of like mild and inoffensive and unthreatening. So
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  Speaker 2: I still think like, and he probably had to do
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  Speaker 2: the least in this debate, I think. Um, but didn't
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  Speaker 2: have a super strong, um, message or plan or vision. Um, it's, it's,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's so hard to tell in, in,
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  Speaker 2: in such a, like, I think such a low attention election,
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  Speaker 2: like what's going to land. I think, um, EB also
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  Speaker 2: was hoping to just get clips of him going after
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  Speaker 2: the sort of like the, the, the more objectionable candidates.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't think Dirksen did a great job defending
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  Speaker 2: that or, or saying that, you know, give, put, saying,
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  Speaker 2: making any arguments or proof points for, for why or
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  Speaker 2: how the Conservatives are going to stay unified. He just
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  Speaker 2: kept saying we're unified, we're unified, we're unified without, you know,
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  Speaker 2: offering any other details. So yeah, I mean.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: EB gave me the vibes a few times of kind
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  Speaker 1: of like a frustrated dad, you know, he's sitting in
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  Speaker 1: the middle and two sides are yelling at him, uh,
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  Speaker 1: in this thing. And he just kind of like, he
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  Speaker 1: seemed exasperated a few times. shook his head. He was
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  Speaker 1: just like, uh, like, you know, shrug things off. He,
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  Speaker 1: there was an element of frustration to it. And I,
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  Speaker 1: he seemed to do okay in walking that line from
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  Speaker 1: looking too arrogant and too sort of like embattled. And,
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  Speaker 1: and he stared right at the camera. I noticed Dirksen
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  Speaker 1: kept turning to talk to Eby instead of British Columbians,
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  Speaker 1: which I thought was a bit of a mistake because
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  Speaker 1: it looks like he's talking to, like he's trying to
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  Speaker 1: convince Eby of something instead of telling people what he's
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: going to do. Uh, but those are just the little
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: weird formats of It sounded like Dirksen had a cold too, Allie.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if he does or not, but nervous,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a cold, a little bit stiff.
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  Speaker 1: It took him a while to warm up.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: You know, I think that is who the leader is,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: is just that he wants to be able to look
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  Speaker 3: at people in their eyes as he's talking to them.
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  Speaker 3: I've said this before on the podcast where this is, election,
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  Speaker 3: I think, is an opportunity for us to move away
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  Speaker 3: from these big, big events where you're talking over a
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  Speaker 3: ton of people and really start looking at people. But,
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  Speaker 3: you know, to your point, Rob, David Eby was looking
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  Speaker 3: into the camera and was able to accomplish that eye
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  Speaker 3: contact that looks at British Columbians and then But on
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  Speaker 3: the other side, I think the Conservative leader was trying
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  Speaker 3: to talk to David Eby and say, this is what
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  Speaker 3: you've done to this province.
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  Speaker 1: Jeff, do you think he did the thing that, you know,
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  Speaker 1: the bottom line for Dirksen is he needed to give
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  Speaker 1: voters permission to vote for him without being scared that
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: was a massive risk? How far do you think he
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  Speaker 1: got in pulling that off?
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  Speaker 4: I think in this campaign, he's gotten part of the
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: way there. I think... One thing that struck me in
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  Speaker 4: tonight's debate that I was surprised about was just how
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  Speaker 4: much Dirksen was engaging Eby on his record. And I
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  Speaker 4: understand why you do that. You want to poke holes
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: in your opponent and drive votes away from him. But
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  Speaker 4: I think the real imperative for him that was a
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: bit of a missed opportunity was looking away from Eby
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  Speaker 4: and instead of acting like someone who's running for opposition leader,
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: act like someone who's running to be premier. And I
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  Speaker 4: would have, if I were advising him, which I would
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  Speaker 4: never be asked to do in a million years, but
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: I would have said, you know, look at the camera,
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: ignore the barbs and the talking over, and just talk
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: to voters about what exactly your plan is, your hopeful,
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: optimistic plan is in your mind. And give them some
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: assurance that you're ready to do the job. And I
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: just think he spent too much time going IDB on
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  Speaker 4: his record to have accomplished that. So part of the
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: way there, you know, who did well, I think who
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: did well was Emily Lowen and maybe you'll jump into
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  Speaker 4: her performance as well. But I thought she, she, she
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  Speaker 4: succeeded very well in her debate performance tonight. I thought
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: just being on the stage with the other two leaders and,
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: getting attention paid to you is a win in and
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: of itself, but she sounded good in debates. It's important
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: to know your body language. And I think she, she
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: looked confident. She articulated a different vision than the other two.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure, you know, in first past the post,
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: whether that will do anything for her at the ballot box,
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: but I think she acquitted herself well and set herself
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: up for a potential that I think she'll win her seat,
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: and tonight portends well for her prospects in politics in BC,
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: I think.
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  Speaker 1: She had two of the best lines in the debate,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I thought. This year's election bribes are next year's broken promises,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: which was a good one. And British Columbians are tired
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of being stuck on the merry-go-round. of cuts and broken services.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Damn that merry-go-round keeps going and going. Uh, so she, she.
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  Speaker 4: Had some great lines. I thought, I thought her best
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  Speaker 4: line was right at the end, which is like, I'm exhausted.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: That's right. Yeah. Exhausted by all of this.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Speaking to all of the, she could have got away
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: using that at any point in the debate. Uh, Jillian,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: what did you think?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I think she seemed substantial. I liked, I really liked
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: her opening. Like, I think she did a really good
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: job speaking directly to, to voters and sort of um
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: making a convincing case that she's the one that's on
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: their side um i think you know she missed there
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: was like such a good opportunity at the beginning when
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: the other two were going after each other for sort
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: of like who has the most caucus problems and trying
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: to land those blows and just getting so negative where
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: she could have interjected um and it could have been
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: a really strong moment, but she had, she had lots
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: of good ones. And I think Jeff's right. Like in
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the past elections, I think, um, the leaders debate has
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: really helped, really helped.
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: Sonia for snow secure her seat.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: And I think that, um, voters in Sandwich North in
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: the islands will feel, um, more confident and proud to
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: vote for her, um, based on that performance.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: Um, I don't know. I mean, also, I think, you know,
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: she's probably the least known.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And this was a good introduction for people.
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: I think disaffected NDP.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Voters will feel that there's good value in voting green if,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: you know, if they've got a good candidate in their riding.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: But again, it's such a low attention and low information election.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I was shocked by the number of people who I
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: know from working in politics that didn't even watch the debate.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: And if like the nerds aren't watching, I'm.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Like, man.
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: But the nerds are listening to us. Yeah, good morning, nerds.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think it's hard to, there's just so
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: little time to break through, but I think that she's
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: got a good job at having secured her seat from
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: that performance.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Allie, what did you think of Loewen? And then after,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about Loewen on proportional representation, because
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: that kind of blew my mind a little bit. But
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: what did you think, Allie, of Loewen's performance in general?
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Well, talking about her zingers, the other one that I
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: really liked was Taxing Work. And it really spoke to
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: the fact that I think she was also finding what
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: voters are worried about, which is government finance, the accountability
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: of how do we get out of this deficit? You know,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: she attacked. the Conservatives for, you know, how are you
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: going to pay for all of this? And everything seemed
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: to be about that financial responsibility. Taxing work, I thought,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: just was brilliant because ultimately, what do we want to
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: do except for really just get a good paying job
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: and work and afford things and be able to live
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: life in BC? But yeah, no, I thought she did
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: a great job. I said this, that she's going to
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: make a great member of the Legislative Assembly. And she
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: proved that tonight.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: The latest Ipsos, I think it was, no, the latest
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Leger poll is pretty tight that came out yesterday. And
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: it indicates we may be headed to some kind of
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: maybe another minority government situation, maybe. And that was a
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: question that Lohan got during the debate and after the
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: debate in the media scrum. What are your conditions for
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: supporting whichever party might win a minority government and need
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: to come back to you? And the thing that she said,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: and after the debate, she told reporters, the hill that
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: she intends to die on, is proportional representation. And implementing that,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: presumably without another referendum, we've had three of them now,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: does that complicate the discussion of the Greens? Anyone can
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: jump in on this. But if we now start talking about,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: if you support the Greens, and they're holding the balance
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: of power, they're on the record saying the thing they
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: want is to overhaul our electoral system that people have rejected.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Does that change... people's ability to kind of like vote
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: for them? What thinking about that in any way, anyone?
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: I think it would have.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Been smarter to like stay focused like she did in
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: her opening on like things that are top of mind
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: for people.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: Cause I don't think that that's one of them.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I do think that cynics, like because of the cynicism
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: around the snap election, there might be more appetite for like,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you know, trying to find ways that we could get
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: like avoid this situation again. And I think, you know,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: it's an election where people don't really love the choices
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: in the two big parties, but I think it would
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: have been stronger to maybe save that for after the
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: election and focus more on something that's top of mind
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: for people like affordability and rent and something like that.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I just wonder if she's thinking through that, like, if
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: you move to PR, it's quite possible you'd have two
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: to three 1BC MLAs in the legislature, which I can't
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: imagine Lowen is a proponent of. Like, it seemed like
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: a short-sighted, Greens could get more under PR, so let's
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: do PR, not like it's great for democracy in general.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm overreading it. Jeff Alley, does it change anything?
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Will the NDP jump on that at a certain point
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: and say, look, if you're going to vote for the
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Greens and they hold the balance of power, you're going
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to get stuck with this new crazy voting system. Don't
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: You know what you would get? Oh, so go ahead, Alley.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Well, I was just going to interject to say that
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: this is just the funniest thing about all of this
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: is because David Eby continues to say that he called
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: this the election because he needs a strong mandate. And
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: everything was about making sure that the NDP government had
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: more people in the seats to make these big decisions
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: against big bad Trump. And now here we're talking about
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: a minority government situation. I think the political calculus for
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: this election from his desk was completely wrong and not
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: at all the conversation that he thought we would be
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: having at this point.
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: Of the campaign.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think EB would survive a minority government
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: situation if he won one. I think he'd be out
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: his leader pretty quick in that scenario. But anyways, Jeff,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: proportional representation?
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: If that's the hill the Greens want to die on,
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: and if there's a minority situation, then the Greens are
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: going to precipitate another election. That's because neither the Conservatives
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: nor the NDP will agree to proportional reprisation at a
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: time when the challenges facing British Columbians are so much
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: not that. Affordability, housing, healthcare, and we're talking about electoral reform.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: We'll just be back to the polls. Okay.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Closing thoughts from anybody on this. I'll throw some other
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: things out there and maybe they come into the discussion
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: as we're closing up, but The NDP did release their
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: fully costed platform four hours before the debate started. And
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I noticed that David Eby multiple times kind of said,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: how can you trust anyone who doesn't come up here
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: with a fully costed platform? This is my job and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I had barely time to read it before the debate.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: So I can't imagine anyone in their right mind read it,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: but it is out there now. It forecasts a deficit
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: of $ 13 billion and kind of hinges around the idea
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: of of economic growth of $ 600 million in the first
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: year is kind of a buffer zone with taxes and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: different things. Um, no, no major surprises in it other
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: than there's like a $ 200 million promises yet to be
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: unveiled section. Uh, so there's clearly some more stuff coming
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: from the, um, campaign that's not in their fully cost
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: of platform that'll show up later. Uh, but there was that. And, uh,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: you know, none of the issues seem to move the needle.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't think we didn't hear anything new from anyone, uh,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: on anything. Uh, and I don't know where we, I
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: don't know, I guess to close it out. Um, how
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: do the parties capitalize on whatever they accomplished out of
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: this in the next few days as we head into
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: advanced voting, which opens tomorrow on Friday? Um, anyone, anyone
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: can take all of that jumbled mess of my 5am
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: brain and, and, uh, do something with it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I think for the NDP, it's to really make the
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: case for the risk and really crystallize that the risk
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: of a conservative government is greater than the status quo.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I think for the conservatives, it's to basically not fumble
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and maybe try and make more of a convincing case
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: for Dirksen as more of a stronger leader.
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: I think if anything.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: he came off as a little bit too mild and
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: to convince voters that he's going to be a, not
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: a risky choice. He maybe needs to show, demonstrate a
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: little bit of stronger leadership, um, and continue to make
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: the case against the NDP. And I think for the greens,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: it's to continue to build on the momentum and make
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: the case that they're an essential voice in the legislature.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: And that like breath of fresh air and like a, uh,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: an alternative that's very distinct from the other parties and
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: necessary to.
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: Have in there.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Jeff, Ali.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we've got another couple of days of
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: voter persuasion. So you'll see the campaigns putting out clips
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: of what they see as the highlights of the debate
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: from their perspective and try and get that in front
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: to swing voters and as many voters as they can
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: and hope that that moves the dial, but that'll last
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: a couple of days and then it will move to, um,
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: getting out your vote. So the campaigns will have spent
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: this whole campaign creating lists of people who they believe
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: are going to vote for them. And campaigns are going
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: to push messages and advance field work that's aimed at
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: getting out the vote that's identified for them. So that's
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: what I expect to see in the days ahead. And
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: if you have volunteers... And it's going to be hard
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: for the campaigns, especially with these local government elections where
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: the volunteers are pulled in so many different directions. It's
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: going to be hard for each of the campaigns to
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: pull volunteers. And in close races, that might make all
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: the difference, how many volunteers you have. Allie?
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I can talk way more about that municipal-provincial election
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: overlap maybe on the Friday show because it'll be the
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: day before the municipal election.
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: But I think.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: that the momentum is actually on the conservative leader's side.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: I truly believe this because when I looked at that debate,
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: what I actually saw was David Eby not running against
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: either one on the green or the conservative side, but
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: rather running against the failures of himself. What I mean
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: by that was that because this was his desperate attempt
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: to cling on to power, this was him trying trying
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: to convey to his members that he still deserves to
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: be the NDP leader. Because if this was two months ago,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: we maybe could have not seen David Eby as the
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: leader and someone else. You have to take into consideration
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: the fact that top cabinet ministers from the previous government
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: decided to jump ship before this election. I just don't
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: think that he's getting the enforcement from within the House
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: that he thinks that he does. And so for those reasons,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: he's going to spend the next nine ten days of
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: the campaign trying to convince the members that he had
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: the support that he had from 2024 to still hold
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: on to him.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's going to be i think a very raucous
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: uh harsh uh end to this campaign i think we're
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: gonna see it's gonna be a pretty gonna be a
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: really wild uh end to it you know what i
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: forgot to do during the show I forgot to do
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: a break to thank our sponsor, Airbnb. So now we're
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: going to do it right now. And all of us
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: together are going to thank the good folks at Airbnb
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: for not doing it in the middle of the show.
• 26:20
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• 26:24
  Speaker 1: show is brought to you by our premier sponsor this season, Airbnb.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Travel on Airbnb supported 20,000 local jobs last year across
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: British Columbia. Guests are supporting their local economy, whether they're
• 26:34
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• 26:38
  Speaker 1: tourism dollars spent on Airbnb stays in local communities, big
• 26:42
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• 26:45
  Speaker 1: to Airbnb for its support. I know all of us
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: thank them for this unique sponsorship at the end of
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: the show. Sorry about that. The shows, they're organic. They're
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: living things. They happen.
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: We had a good discussion going.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: And I appreciate all three of you for coming on
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: so early in the morning and helping break this down.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I found it. always so fascinating you know to do
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: these uh election debates and kind of hear how other
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: people viewed it afterwards because it's in an era where
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: we're all getting shouted at on social media exactly what
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: to think it's still important to kind of listen to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: your own gut feelings on what you hear and see
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: and uh and how you feel about it afterwards so
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: if you felt something about the debate and it's not
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: what the parties are screaming at you you could still
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: be right trust your heart Trust your soul. How about
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: that uplifting message early in this morning? You guys always
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: say that I'm so down, but I'm telling people to
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: trust their heart. Search within them. Find their soul.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: It's beautiful, Rob.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: It is beautiful. It is beautiful. Oh, my God.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I'm so tired.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: That helps with my debate hangover, Rob.
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: Thank you for it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Help me out.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: All righty then.
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: Well, excellent.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you to the panel for being here. Thank you
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: for listening. Make sure you subscribe. We'll be back tomorrow
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: with all the latest BC Politics here at Political Capital.