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4. From Tragedy to Transformation: A Life Story · The James Finochio Show

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Across the Table.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm James Fenugio, and we feel around here everybody has a story to tell.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: So pull up a chair, have a listen to this conversation.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Today I have with me Robert Montgomery.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing today?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: How about you, bro?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, good enough, man.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Good enough.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Glad to have you here.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Glad to be here.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: We've been buddies for a while.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Many moons.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was glad to have you come on because you have a quite interesting story.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: How old are you now?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: 63.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: 63?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: You caught a case in 81?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: 1981, yes.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: You want to tell us about that?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was a cold December morning.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: I had been drinking with a friend of mine.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: We left the bar and went to my place.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, an argument ensued.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: A light was lost.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can solve that.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I was charged with open charge of homicide.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And my life's never been the same since, obviously.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's, yeah, that's definitely a big change.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember what the fight started about?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was really over a leather jacket that another individual who was actually at my house supposedly stole from the victim.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So to resolve that, we went down there.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: One thing led to another.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: How old were you back then?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see, I was born in 61, so I was...
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: 21.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was 20 years old at that point in my life.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Troubled life.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: no doubt.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So what was it like growing up for you?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was the last of five, seven years between my brother and I.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say I was just kind of the like in the background.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I always had a big thing, it's to gain attention.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: The bad part of that is I took it to the extreme.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So kicked out of school, troubled the juvenile down a bad path.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you have been in the 10th Street detention home?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've been there, yes.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Ended up in Lowrysville for 60 days as I was just young, probably 13, maybe.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: What was that for?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Berkeley.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is juvenile, yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Got a home recommendation, came home, probably completed that probation.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then worked odd jobs and stuff, you know.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Never really had a plan or...
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: any drive to do anything.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Joined the army and was sworn in.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And two months before I was to leave, I got an obligation and hurt somebody pretty badly.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't go to the circus and discharge me.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Life might have been a little different had I not turned left that night.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that wasn't for the homicide.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: That was for an assault on a guy that had put his hands on me first.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Tried to work something out so I could still go to the service, but that never happened.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they weren't trying to hear that.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, and then tragically, maybe four months after that was when the homicide occurred.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember the victim's name?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Alfred Walsh.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Alfred Walsh.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that name sticks with you.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: He was a friend that I grew up with for years.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Played baseball with.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, but it was accidental.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even though I was charged and found guilty in the third degree, it was an accident.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: no doubt.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I still feel for the family.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I believe he still has a brother here in Altoona, Mark.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Mark Walsh.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: His twin brother, John, passed away tragically a long time ago.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Part of the tank, I believe.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you can see I've stayed up, you know, not in touch, but up to date with what was going on.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Out of respect, you know.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously they all would have known you.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've never had any conversation with any of them.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: It would be hard to...
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of almost like taking open the wound as if they...
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope this doesn't pick open any wounds.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm sorry.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: If any of them were watching with would there be something that you would want to say to him?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I apologize, no doubt.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think of Alfred often.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: He was a good man.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's something you just don't forget?
• 6:26
  UNKNOWN: No.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can relive that.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can relive anything.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Every day?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: In your memory.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can pull that stuff up.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody can.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that you've ever done, you can rerun.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: You can rerun that tape.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's a person out there who hasn't done something.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lesson learned.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Put that into practice and try and run the tape back and see where it left you the last time.
• 7:04
  UNKNOWN: Mm-hmm.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: In a similar situation, you know.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: What lessons would you say that you derived from that situation the most?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Remove yourself from any danger, whether you be in the danger or you be in danger.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Remove yourself from that situation, step back, think through, run that tape.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: See, you said done.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that something happens.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: We were just speaking about softball.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: A person using a derogatory statement for me.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And called him a motherfucker.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know...
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's done...
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody who's done prison time, you don't call somebody a motherfucker.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: It just isn't done.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because the first thing that comes out of my mouth is, keep her off the street.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Those are fighting words.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: When you say that, you have to know that you're getting ready to fight.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, whoever called you a motherfucker probably didn't understand that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they probably never did time.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I just ejected them.
• 8:30
  UNKNOWN: Mm-hmm.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then warned him that if he continued, he'd have to leave the ballpark.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's the adult way to handle that.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: About the prison way.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of cracking him with a fucking bat?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: You understand what I'm saying now?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So another, you know, you live through things and then you react and react differently.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, obviously you spent...
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: A good amount of time.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: What sentence did you receive for?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: 15 years.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: 15 years?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Was that like total, was it seven and a half to 15?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Seven to 15.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Seven to 15.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I probably did at least seven eighths behind the curtain.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not as bad.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: You and I were talking.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not as bad as people make it out to be.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: You get a job.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you go about your business.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you live your life, man.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's your life.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: You stay out of drugs.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: You stay out of gambling.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: You don't gamble if you can't pay for it.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Close circle of friends.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the route you take.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: How you sad about that fence disappearing?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: The fence just disappears eventually.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you're facing yours...
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: you have to come to the realization that that's your world.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is your planet.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you ain't going outside of that planet for X amount of years, unless a riot happens.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they burn your planet down.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what year did that?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because you were there for the riots in the hand pill.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: What year was that?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: 1989.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I came in in 1999, which would have been Ten years later.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the same staff were there, but the only A, B, and C block were there from the old camp, though.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: The rest they had changed to different mod units.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the furniture factory was still there, too.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get to go there.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: There was mods.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Mods over here.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they changed them, too.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: But the coffee shop was burnt down.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: wreck building was gutted.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: They rebuilt that.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: They got all that stuff back together.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when I went back, or when I went in the first time, the wreck building that they had was super nice, especially for the president.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't bad.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: The riot was interesting, is a word I would use.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Believe it or not, after two years in state prison, they gave me outside clearance.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Outside defense.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was called a 4R back then.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I got a job at the meat cutting plant.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it was.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now we get to that.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, full circle.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, full circle.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we was working hard.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: we had to break for supper because we had to work late that night.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they brought us in from outside, which is where the meat plank was across the street, Camp Hill, up on the hill.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we got to E-Gate.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just as we got to E-Gate, big Lieutenant, I almost can't remember his name, but he had a big white beard and some inmate would fight at E-Gate.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And just then, They kicked the yard, which they had shifted down, you know, and it was on, right down, boom.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hightail, I was in the drug program, so I hightailed down there, told everybody at the riot number, man, it's going to be bad.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they got back that night, and the next morning they was going to do what they were going to do.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: 5.30 that night, man.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: The news came on.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: They was on the front of the prison saying, we're not negotiating nothing.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: They just reached out, started cracking the doors.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then they went off.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it got real bad.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it got bad.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: I called home.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is no lie.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I called home to let them know that it was rioting.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: before I went to the yard because the place was burning up while I was there.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because from what I only read about it and saw it on TV, I remember seeing the fires.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was there in the midst.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: How did you watch your vibes through that?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Watching them drag guards out.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't proof.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: because we were talking about Sergeant Silver.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: There was always that.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but there was Vasker.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: What was the guy's name?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Vasker.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Vasker.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Cape Block Vasker.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it was another thing.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: They came to my side.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: After they got the person back, it took a few days, I think.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: They had the horses in there.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you stories about the yard.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: because we slept in the yard for two nights.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of October, it was cold.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Not bad.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: There were some days it's real cold.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they took us up in a box, four in a cell, and then they'd come down the box screaming.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you didn't have your hands up, your elbows weren't above your ears.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Fixing the window.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: They were coming in.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they weren't They were running people across all day, all night long, in a hole.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: See, I remember heads down, arms pulled up, stick on the back of the neck.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I remember a couple trips to the hole like that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was awful.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: But then they came to my cell one day and asked me my mother's maiden name.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Next thing I know, it was on a bus going to Lewisburg.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then put it off for life.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: For those who don't know, Lewisburg is notoriously one of the most dangerous prisons in the United States.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: As in Lewisburg.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Lewisburg.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty big.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: You could put two camp hills inside the wall at Lewisburg.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, it was Lewisbury.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's close to that time, I think, though.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know it wasn't that far from North Lumberland.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were there for maybe two days.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Put us on a plane, flew us to Georgia.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Georgia?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: United States Penitentiary, Atlanta.
• 16:19
  UNKNOWN: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Another fucking bad start.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you could put two Lewisburgs inside the wall.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Good grief.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Big prison.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's, uh, yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's unbelievable.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that had to be an experience.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was quite an experience.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then got bused to Fort Gordon.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Where's Fort Gordon?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: In Georgia.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was a hot box.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I got to be a tea worker for some.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: My uncle sent word that he'd give me a job.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: They had officers coming from all over the country to work there, 12-hour shifts.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And my uncle was in Terre Haute, and the guy that's come, he says, well, my nephews are pulling to work.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So guards from Terre Haute said, Uncle Tom says, hey.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: You want to work?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Click.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, reaching out and touching somebody.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is pretty cool.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Ended up back in PA, eventually.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's a story in and of itself, coming back through Atlanta.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was quite a trip there.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: In what way?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody that I got...
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: When I got back to Atlanta, I was on the fifth range.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: They have the gun walks out on the windows, all the cells are inside them.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: 50 cells long, five tiers high.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's not Clayton Samuels walking into Camp Hill.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, those were, you had two tiers, but it was, God, it was long.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when I first got to, what was it, C Block.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I came in.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't even that far apart.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably about this big.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: They hold about 500, I thought.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: You look down that tier, it's so long.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I'm in prison.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess this is what it's all about.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I got out eventually.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Made some more mistakes in life.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Had jobs, lost jobs, had careers, lost careers, you know.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was a jack of all trades trying to find my niche.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Never really quite did until recently.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I made a big turnaround, stopped drinking five years ago.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you did.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that changed my life forever.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not drinking.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: They're not drinking.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: You think that's a key to a lot of things?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: It pains me to see people.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't go out and have a beer or a couple of cocktails.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's one thing.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: But to go to get totally drunk every day is.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I did it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: That was my life for a long time.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I find myself hypocritical because I'm very critical of people who do that that I care about.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a bitter pill to swallow, the hypocritical part of it.
• 19:55
  UNKNOWN: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I shouldn't be like that because I've lived that lifestyle.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's hard to break.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I guess in watching somebody do it, it may be more painful than doing it yourself or losing yourself.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: In what way do you think?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: The empathy I have.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's in contradiction to the critical way I treat this person.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do expect more from people.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should be able to stop drinking or stop smoking or doing what, just by saying, I'm going to do that.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a wrap.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to do that no more.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how you did it.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: You went cold turkey.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have a little bit of with medical incentive.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: But once you make that decision that you rather live, then you tend to cherish the small things.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: You don't focus on the past.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to make too much sense of it because that was a different life.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was a different person than sits before your death.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was a terrible dude for a long time.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't blame it on alcohol, but alcohol was a big part of it.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, let's say when you got, while you were in prison, I know you can get Hooch, but did you, by the time you got there, you were pretty much a baron, Troy?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: In prison?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, we...
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hooch wasn't very good.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: There were some dudes that knew how to make some good Pruneau or some good rice wine.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe twice I had a cup of alcohol in the big house.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I could have smoked more wee if I wanted to.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was just something I did every once in a while.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because in prison, you're pretty paranoid if you're smart.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: The little stuff that you do have can be taken away real quick.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when everything you have fits in a little Tupperware bin.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you're off to...
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Served you a little time.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I remember making chess pieces out of toilet paper.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: With soap to hold it together.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like the pink soap.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, God.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: At least we were allowed to have a little bit of paper in the hole so you could write.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: I used to watch him make the sleds and make them slide.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up sober with people all the time.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Tear-fishing.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them people were good at it, boy.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's something I wouldn't want to have to spend that much time in a hole to learn to do.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: I always got caught gambling.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: We kept a pretty low key, man.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Pinochle was deciding it out.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was a carton of man to sit at the table with me and Pellucci.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: There was a carton of person.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: We were that good, me and John Pellucci.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Never forget Pellucci, man.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he still alive?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: He was the last time I saw him, but that was in 05, maybe.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: He was coming back through on the same bit that he had on the side.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So he split his head, man.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget it.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: He had a big scar on his head.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Me and him were in the band together.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: You played guitar, too?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot about that.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: You learned to play upstate?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Upstate.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Taught guitar.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Taught music theory while I was there.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Taught music theory?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm proud of all the softball games.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Outside teams...
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you learned to ref while you were up there too, right?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned how to uncle Tony.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: For those of you who don't know, Tony Ugar, good man, wrist in peace, bro.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: He made it bearable.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that was your uncle, was it?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't my blood uncle, but he was Uncle Tom.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know him from when you signed up for the Cordial Lounge.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then he had, you know where 10th Street Cafe is?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: There was a bar down the street.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: He was down there.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was a big coke deal.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: But he was in with the Barilla guy.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because that's what, what's that, Racioli's, Raciola, Wax Wansley.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was the other one, Caramadre.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Caramadre.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Huntington with Caramadre and Farilla.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I used to take Jack Farilla to his diabetic center to work overnight.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: He called me Bobby.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: True story.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Who did the concrete boots in the reservoir?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Was it that Tyrone Reservoir?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was off, I forget.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was off Breakers Gap.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they put in.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was, I forget the dude's name.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was Holland.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Does that sound right?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds right.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Stabbed him in the head with an ice pick.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Killed him.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Whipped him in chains, didn't he?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I ain't gonna go into that, but yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: uh and that was around here yes i don't think people realize how much mafia had influence back in the well yeah there was some the week for jerry oh yeah i remember him there's a full wall down by where the seven street red used to be remember the old south street big blue That's how you know you were in Altoona when I was a kid.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Across the big blue mail bridge.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a pool hall right there.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I forget the name of it.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: The Brunswick.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: The Brunswick.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard of it.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily remember it.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I come full circle now.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm back in Altoona living the dream now.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, paying bills.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Good credit.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Loving what you're doing.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: meat cutter.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm surprised a lot of meat cutters end up with, like, messed up shoulders.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, my buddy David Sipes, he was a butcher for a long time, but, like, all his shoulders and stuff are messed up from throwing around sides of beef.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, but those days are all gone.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, everything comes in cryo-like.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they already have, like, smaller pieces?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like a whole beef loin...
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was pretty big.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you got a short loin, and then we got a strip loin.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then you cut it down into those boxes of strip loins and boxes of short loins.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then we process it.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Just out of curiosity, where does the meat come from?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is it American beef?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's 100% American.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: It boggles the mind how many animals get killed in this country every day.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Think of all the...
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: supermarkets in this country and the fresh beef and pork that you can get every day that's on the shelves in every city in this country yeah you know out of curiosity do you know that moving that volume of stuff okay it's it's crazy unbelievable like millions and thousands of cows are slaughtered hundreds of thousands yeah that's it all right then people get paid yeah No, the thing is, my buddy, he raises cattle.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: He raised them for two years.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: From what he was explaining to me, that we get in the supermarket is generally about a year.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or less.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or less.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's fresh.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, it's...
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially with cryovaccing and stuff now.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: That stuff's probably all automated.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but they still have cutters, people that shave.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I find it nice.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Heal them, bleed them, skin them.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they don't waste nothing.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's a hero.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Really.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing is wasted.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: What do they do with the skin?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hanging in bags, clothing, jackets.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Duh.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's beef.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's great that they're not barely in any ways.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's no ways.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: No?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just, you know, I guess that's you.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think you need a problem with everything.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everything.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I worked for Silver Star Meats for a while.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Did you?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: You buy chicken meat from pork.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hot dogs.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Which most people, that's what they buy.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's chicken meat from pork.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like And it's a little box of beef.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: A little box of chicken.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: With snouts and tongues.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Pork snouts and tongues.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them say assholes, and they're not kidding.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's there somewhere.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, somewhere.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I feel sorry you have to imagine, but I probably don't.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of stuff.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: They don't lose nothing.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's just amazing to me.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: The way we feed a country now is way quite different.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's unbelievable.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: We've come a long way.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Think about how much longer people live now than they used to.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's sustainable.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And either.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think the plan will eventually do something to regain balance.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting because I was talking to Terry Martell in She did it yesterday and that's what she was saying that we're at this point past 26,000 years where the earth and institutions and things begin to crumble and there's a shift back towards a feminine versus a patriarchal in that she says institutions and governments and things will begin to crumble.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: How does it become more empathetic?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that we, that the earth regained its balance.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Has to.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: It has to.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're just a blip on the screening plan.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: The earth does not work this way, too.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're just a little tick, man.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: How long we been going?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's 1,225 years.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: The Egyptians were over 5,000 years.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened to them?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: They were looking back.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: From what I understand, Egypt, the Nile region used to be not desert.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was a beautiful oasis.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then Earth decided, hey, let's get back.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Taking it back.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: So to think of 2025 years in the span of a The eons on this planet is just a little tiny little tape.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even measure.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe it does.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll destroy ourselves.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's sad to say.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there's too much greed.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's no brotherhood.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: That we're all, why can't we all eat?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't we all live well together?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't everybody please eat?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: You think that he's suffering, but smile at somebody, man.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And dude, when you break bread with someone, you sit down like us, have a conversation, people aren't screaming and yelling at each other about that dumbest fucking shit.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: It makes no sense, you know?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, we know, well, the person's how I remain nameless, but, you know, someone that they get mad at me over politics.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, you know, our politics are so diseased, man.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's disgusting.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the people in there are too old.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: There should be a term limit of at least 60 years old, man.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be 60 plus.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And being about it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let the next generation take over.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: The youth of this nation has to stand up and say, we don't want this kind of government anymore.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: This bullshit that's going on.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be a better way.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just human nature.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, somebody says, why can't we just leave them people alone?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because it's human nature to conquer.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's all people have done for millennia is conquer other people, make them slaves, convert them to their religion.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's been happening since the dawn of our time, of our age.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it just makes me shake my head that We're all brothers and sisters, man.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: You just can't say it.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're the money.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about money, man.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And power.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And power.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think about, like, the closest animal to us is chimpanzee.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: They war with each other constantly.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's a constant battle.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they eat them.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: somewhere our ape brain just can't get past that.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: You have to conquer.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: And go to that higher.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the world sits here and watches.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm no Middle East dude.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm no this dude or that dude.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's my motto.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: But these Palestinians are trying to get food.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the world's watching Israel kill people that are hungry.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they're humanas.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're still hungry.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: They don't believe what you believe.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Give them a piece of bread.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Start with that.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Reach across the table with a piece of bread.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that simple to just be human.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know I saw a video of a man trying to put his kid back together.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you ain't got a heart, dude, maybe you can look at that and be like, fuck him.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I can't.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I can't.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because me as a father, I think, what if that was me, man?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: One of my kids are blown to bits.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just insanely sad and trying to, like, like you're going to Frankenstein your kid back together.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's hot.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've seen a lot more of like the early civil rights movement and stuff like that.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: We see still today that certain elements of our society are are no better off now.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're actually worse off.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: When other people tried to step in, and I'm not sure the idea was to help them.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was to contain.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someone had good intentions.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I struggle with the fact that they still refer to themselves as African Americans.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not that they shouldn't identify with their heritage, but they're Americans.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see them as black or I don't see them as Chinese.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you're an American, you're just American.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're an American.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Which means everybody.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: On a...
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: An application that asks me race, I put human.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because what other race is there?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only one that really matters.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Human race, that's how you feel in your heart.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you have to put down.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a human.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an American human.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And lucky to be an American.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: I do not think that people that live here appreciate.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been outside the country except to Canada.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was good in Niagara Falls when I was like 12.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: But from everyone I know that travels and that, yeah, there's beautiful places in the world.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: But they can't wait to come back to America.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
• 39:05
  UNKNOWN: Yeah.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we're throwing it away.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what humans do.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of fear-mongering, too.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: In our nature.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: But you have political assassinations.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: A president who wants to be an autocrat, I think.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Not sure.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean...
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: It says a lot of stuff.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was very impressed when he said, they don't know what the fuck they're doing.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've been waiting for a president to actually say that.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't talk about you.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: He was the first one, so I got to give him credit.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's on Nick T, Dave.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine trying to referee that.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Two sides that have been fighting forever, and they just don't know What the fuck they do?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my God, what do we do with peace?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the dog that caught the car.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: I got the car, what do I do with it?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do now?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Piss on the tire.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I think people doing this, sitting and talking about experience.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, you know.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just kind of like relating your beliefs and myself, my beliefs and the things that have changed me.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a much softer person now, I believe.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're definitely softer now than when I first met you.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: That comes with not only age, but experience.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Perspective and removing the most negative thing in your life that's preventing you from moving forward.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: How would you define moving forward?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Incremental.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have good credit overnight.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big thing for me because I was such a lousy creditor in the past.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it feels good to be a member of society.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a sober member of society.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: One that's paying their share and keeping up with their bills.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, the incremental growth that credit cards give you.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you start out with one that gives you 200 bucks or something.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: You keep paying on that, and the next thing you know, you're getting credit cards through the mail.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the next thing you know, here comes one with low interest rate,$2,500 limit, no fee.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: That shows you that you're doing the right thing.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have that fallback.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And just in case you need it, then like something breaks on your car.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know i don't worry about that nowadays generally something breaks on your car you're probably looking at least a thousand dollars or at least close to that and so how many how many families that are say 30 and younger can actually afford that because there's not many people i know that are 30 and younger that actually have financial sense at all I know my financial successes, you know, my work ethic and I've worked for a really good company and they care about their employees, they really do.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it shows because they're ranked in the top of the company, that store is ranked like number one.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for certain different things, you know.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that would be giant people?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it that they like about them, something that makes them such a good company to work for?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Their core values, you know, it's respect, caring about the community, caring about the product that they present to the community.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Leadership is really strong.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's like a family.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoy going to work.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a job.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like I'm going to see an old friend because that's what I'm a meat cutter.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there's only so many of us in the shop.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: But you tend to get close with guys like that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's more like family, you know, to look out for each other.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: We take care of each other.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what it's supposed to be.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's know i feel fortunate you know i worked for him before and uh lost my job of course i was drinking at the time but um they hired me back only five years later gave me another chance yeah and i'm grateful for that i'm glad it worked out for you doubt that's that's excellent it's good to hear because a lot of A lot of felons think that they can't get jobs, and that is not necessarily true.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I went to JTPA and went to umpire school in Florida.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: That was a certified major league umpire.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I could do it because of my physical health.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you can do anything if you research it, but Anybody that's struggling with addiction, all you got to do is stop, man.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just stop.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to happen overnight.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: It took me a long time.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you'll see progress.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's called putting in the work.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you hear that all the time, people.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's just bullshit.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Live and not live, man.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: I believe in the incremental.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just measure your little stuff, man.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Celebrate a week.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Not by having a drink.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you can still have fun without alcohol.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: I feel fortunate with my health that I can still walk my dogs.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which, you know, I'm I love my dogs.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you do.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: What's your dog's names?
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Jack.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Traveling Jack and Buddy.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Which are both Jack, Terry, and Russell.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Jack, Russell, Terry.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're pretty cool.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: So life's good, man.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's good on this side.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Better than having a gatekeeper.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: A butcher.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: You liking it now?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Want money now?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Three.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Three, yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: How is the young man?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to turn this interview around, but how is your boy?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: He was my first interview.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Was he, Rob?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's 21.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's 90% in the union now.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sweet.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he only has 500 more hours to work.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: All his schoollings tell him he has all his certifications.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Good for him.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he's pretty excited about his clothing line because he knows he doesn't want to be in construction forever.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: He does.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: So he's trying to.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, sure.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I've been pretty proud of him.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't really drink.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't smoke.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Goes to the gym.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty happy for him.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: He seems to be enjoying his life.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got it.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: nine grandchildren down in florida good grief two daughters i have yeah i've never met your daughters she hasn't been there for probably 20 years yeah they've been down south somewhere different places yeah nine grandkids how's that though having grandkids it's pretty cool man you know i don't say them so I'd like to live near them so they come over and hang out with pops, you know.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that, you were, weren't you headed to South Carolina or Florida?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'll keep thinking about it, but, I mean, I'm getting me cut and drop down there.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: I travel well.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: My skills travel everywhere.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: And even on fire, I can get, yeah, big bucks down there, so.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Probably, yeah.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: 90, 100 bucks a game.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's not too bad.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's not too bad at all.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: But the meat cutters probably make more money.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: 25 plus probably.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at least your shields travel well.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, buddy.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: They won't just stay here.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Certified chef.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I forgot about that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't read, man.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: There were a lot of schools back then.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where'd you get that one, then?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Pittsburgh.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Pittsburgh.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: So why didn't you ever follow that one?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: I found out I didn't like working in a professional kitchen.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Very fast-paced.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I worked at the Pittsburgh Hilton for a while.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Did you?
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sous-champ.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Worked at the Stone Mansion and Sewickley.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of know where that's at.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: S-E-W-I-C-K-L-E-Y.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: North of Pittsburgh.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you're in Butler?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, Butler's over about Sewickley, straight up.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's like, okay, straight north.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where Butler's liveable.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: East.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: Northeast.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: I never did the Sheets and Meadville, which is up by Lake Erie, and I had to go through Butler, and I swear I saw signs for sure.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen those signs out there.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: It might have.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a super place.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was back.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was a nice place.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: I won't forget that place.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: It looked like a big, warm, not castle, but one of them old...
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: The Ingle Mountains.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: The big stones.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Stone ranching.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that little architecture stuff.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Downtown Pittsburgh got some really nice churches checked out sometime.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Old y'all.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Someone got killed at one of those churches on a construction site last week.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Pittsburgh?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 51:04
  UNKNOWN: Yeah.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was really 1700 Detroit downtown.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: We were like, wow, Fort Pet in the jail.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Down by the old jail.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: That baby's old.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when did that start?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, 1700 or something like that.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think the Mulling Meguiars were there.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then they started in, was it Carbon County?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Somewhere, but I think they ended up in Pittsburgh, didn't they?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's quite a fascinating story also.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it is.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Pennsylvania has such rich history.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you remember when you were just sitting there having a conversation?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: How about that?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: When's the last time you thought of the Molly Maguires?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, last time I went to Molly.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't really, uh, I remember as a kid hearing about them and that they had to do with coal.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: I never really, you know, but then once I started reading, wow.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: What'd you read a lot of while you were locked up?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Novels, mostly.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Fiction.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Who's your favorite author?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Stephen King.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: You could stay in those books for hours.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was intrigued with the Talisman and then the follow-up, Black House.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: And flipping into different worlds.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the concept of that.
• 53:03
  UNKNOWN: Mm-hmm.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: And his books were very interchangeable.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the characters will come back in different ways.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Gunslinger series.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that series.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Dark Tally.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I was intrigued by the flip.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: That made me think of how they speak of reincarnation and seeing another side.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know when you get into like quantum physics and stuff that we could exist on different planes.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm counting on it.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping that there's like really a point.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there has to be a point to this existence, this consciousness.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just think that we keep on moving.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think...
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's interchangeable.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that we've all lived past lives.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: I believe deja vu is just a spot in time where you would have it the same space as the person before you was.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: You understand what I'm saying?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: When you go, wow, that feels like I did that before.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're just like the glitch in the matrix.
• 54:31
  UNKNOWN: Yeah.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you put it in today's terms, I guess, yeah.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Where you're almost like crossing paths with.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you actually bump into the same spot in time.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it happens.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it does.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I think that all the souls have gone before us.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've had, not out-of-body experiences, but I've had some shit that I've seen that's made me go, I think I've been there before.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you just go back through time, and if everybody just keeps flipping, because we're electric energy, and it has to go somewhere, it just doesn't go.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: It cannot be created or destroyed.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: It has to go somewhere.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it just goes to the next circuit.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: yeah on three times over and over and over you just don't end their conscious memory of it but sometimes you do some people recount that i find myself in a large meadow it's beautiful there should be distance and whatever you know that's for everybody yeah that's interesting because the guests i had last night she's had maybe uh terry she's Tunals energy.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: Tunals different things.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: She does pass life regression, also.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: I fully believe we both live thousands of lives before we die.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, her idea is that you keep coming back until you learn what you need to learn.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that there's that big of a...
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: demand on it.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it's just the natural way things go.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can definitely see that too.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: That it's just continuous over and over and over.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: The circle of life?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: The circle of life.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people you hear, they say death is just the beginning.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard that many times.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just stepping into another room.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it said on Uncle Tone's double tap thing.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just stepping into another room.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: You'll see me again.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just stepped into another room.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: And Uncle Tone said, if you can't bury them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: I use that one all the time.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: I need a cigarette, buddy.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: We can wrap it up then.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you coming and doing this with me, brother.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: No problem, bro.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'll help people.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: It might.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're about to go on the side.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're about to go on the side.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do it anymore on the side.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a wrap.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.