Latest / Deep Trope Fantasy & Romance Podcast / The Incendiary Deep Dive (Ch. 53-62) | THAT Epic Cliffhanger, Missing Gods, and Book 3 Theories
Transcript
- Rachel: Welcome to Deep Trope, where we go deep into fantasy and romance books, one trope at a time. I'm Rachel, romantasy theorist. Kate: And I'm Kate, lover of all things dark and spicy. Rachel: And today is the sixth and final episode of our Deep Dive of the Incendiary by LJ Claren. Along with this deep dive series, LJ Claren also recently returned to Deep Trope for a full spoilers interview to discuss the Incendiary and even some of what's to come in the Nocturne. So be sure to check that out if you haven't yet. Kate: And last weekend we were away at Romantasy BookCon Orlando, hosted by Fabled Fantasy Events, and we have so much to share. We had a blast. So join us next week for our full recap, where we'll also be joined by the lovely Bethany Joyful, a cosplayer and event organizer who we met at the event. Rachel: And what's next for Deep Trope? On November 12th, I'll be joined by Claire from Runing Books to discuss a court of splintered harmony. We buddy read it together this week and we have thoughts. And then on November 17th, join Kate and I for our multi-episode Threshing Day deep dive. We recorded a reaction episode as soon as the book came out with AX Harleston from the Romantasy Chaos HQ podcast and Claire from Runing Books. But now that we've gathered our thoughts, we'll be diving into it chapter by chapter and really discussing some of our theories. And we have a recap of Rose In Chains coming your way to prep for Vine of Hearts, book two in the Evermore trilogy, which releases on November 26th. in the UK and december 1st in the US. Kate: All right, lots of exciting stuff coming up. But before diving into the Incendiary for this week's episode, a reminder that this episode will cover chapters fifty-three to sixty-two of the book from the perspective of two people who have read the full book. So that means spoilers. And if you don't know what the earth-shattering last three words of this book are, please pause the podcast and come back once you finished reading. Be sure to check the content warnings for the book as well because all trigger warnings from the book apply to this podcast. We are two unfiltered, opinionated millennials, so maybe grab your headphones if you're around little ones or anyone easily offended. Rachel: And we're still a new podcast, so we truly appreciate your support by liking, subscribing, and leaving a thoughtful review. Or sharing with a friend. Our goal is to make sure every fantasy and romance reader has a book bestie to gush over their favorite theories and their favorite spicy moments. And we absolutely love chatting with you. So be sure to connect with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at Deep Trope Podcast. So drop us a comment or slide into our DMs because again, we just love to gab. All right, let's get into it. Kate: All right, so we're picking up in chapter fifty-three with Ary. As she braces herself to meet Simeon, Ary thinks of this demand from Gavin: quote, if they try to force you to do something you don't want to do, you tell them no and you don't give in. Promise me. To which she silently promises to obey. And what exactly do you think Gavin was thinking that they would force her to do here when he asked her to make this promise? Rachel: Hmm. I don't know if he knew of anything specific. I just think it's like his default advice is to not trust them and specifically to not trust Simeon. and also like he knows that she was raised to be a people pleaser. So I think there's also that element as well. I mean, for instance, the one time Ary disobeyed Simeon in her entire existence. He literally hit factory reset and turned her off for 400 years. Kate: That's that's true. So you think Gavin's just like generally trying to train her, like do not just go along with the flow, you know, Rachel: Yes, exactly. Kate: like if you don't want to do something, you don't have to do it. Rachel: Exactly. He's training her to think for herself. Kate: Ary finally gets to confront Simeon, even though she doesn't get many answers. Here's basically the gist of their first contentious exchange. Simeon tries to play the We're Family card, but Ary is having none of it, telling him family doesn't do what he did to her. She says he took everything from her while clutching her abdomen. And clearly, he stole her baby, right? Rachel: Yeah. yeah. Obviously we learn it here, but obviously. Kate: Yeah. He tells her she doesn't know everything, to which I would say, whose fucking fault is that, Simeon? Rachel: Yeah. Kate: And he's also really freaked out by Shera, which I love. I think that he feels threatened by an umbra because they know things that he doesn't want anyone else to know. Rachel: Yeah, and I was also thinking he probably read about them because clearly Simeon reads a lot, even though he's like trying to erase history in Nyrida. so he probably read about them but never actually encountered them. So Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: this is like very scary to him. but I just can't wait for Shera to rip out his throat. Kate: I know. I know. But like it's it's just so interesting because he clearly feels like physically threatened by her, right? Like she's an imposing Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: presence. But he I think he feels equally threatened by her knowledge and the fact that Rachel: Mm-hmm. Exactly, yeah. Kate: she's she's like a loose canon in his mind because Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: she's clearly keeping a lot of things to herself right now, but at any point could decide to tell Ary things that Simeon, I'm sure, does not want her to know. Rachel: Yes. Again, he's literally erasing history. He is burning books essentially. And he can't Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: he can't do that with Shera. Kate: Yeah, and she's like a living embodiment of the history that was meant to be lost. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: He thought that she was extinct. So Simeon claims that Ary couldn't have remembered Gavin or any of her past memories for that matter, but she says that she could feel something missing that her fake adopted family didn't fulfill, but Gavin fit that missing piece. Rachel: And adding to our soulmates theory, Ary specifically says I could feel him like he was the missing part of me. So just a little bit more ammunition to that, to that theory. Kate: Yeah, basically it sounds like like a phantom limb kind of thing. she could Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: tell that something was missing and just wasn't right. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: When she demands her memories back, Simeon says it's impossible and they are gone, but Ary is skeptical, knowing that she's already experienced pieces of her memories coming back to her. Rachel: And it's interesting because you had the idea of Simeon using veil magic to hide her memories, but he seems to really think he permanently erased them. And he admits that death can sometimes be reversed, but then not memories. So it was just interesting because why doesn't Ary latch onto that line and try to reverse Gavin's death? I, I don't know if maybe in her mind too much time has passed. but it seems like there's a little bit of a disconnect between. what we're seeing the results of the magic to be and what Simeon thinks he did. Kate: Right, right. Because again, we've very clearly seen Ary remembering pieces, whether it's through her nightmares or whatever, there's no other explanation for that than those are memories or pieces of her Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: memories. And so yeah, whatever he did, he didn't do it the way that he thought he did, or Ary is just so powerful or so unique that whatever he did that would normally have worked just is reacting differently. To her. But as far as the line about death sometimes being able to be reversed, I'm really not sure why she didn't latch onto it beyond maybe just being so overwhelmed by this entire conversation. Like the amount of information that she's kind of getting right now is is a lot and is very emotional. But thinking about what you brought up last episode with Gavin's decaying body, maybe she would assume that there's a point of no return. Once the body starts to decay, unless we're gonna be getting some zombies in this story, I feel like like Rachel: Well, I don't think I would put it past her to still be in love with a zombie Gavin. Kate: I know. If anybody caught Rachel's social post about Ary dancing with a skeleton of Gavin, yeah, that's that's true. Simeon admits that his power is weakening, and he tells Ary that she needs to learn not just the power of the Selvaren, but also her bloodline magic, including how to protect the wards. And Ary pushes back, telling him she won't just do whatever he says, and he tries to manipulate her by saying everyone's deaths will be on her hands if she refuses. Ultimately, she relents that she should learn the ward magic to keep her people safe. But she is still open to killing Simeon the moment she no longer needs him, which good for her. Rachel: Yes, absolutely good for her. I think it's also important to note here that creepy Uncle Simeon tried to say he's not as bad as Smyth, and we get an epic keep his name out of your fucking mouth from Ary. I Kate: Yeah. Rachel: and I just love to see her curse him out because he so deserves it. Kate: He so does. He's such a shit. Ary returns for training the next day and sees Simeon focusing on a beaker of bubbling purple liquid, very mad scientist vibes. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: His room is filled with books and sketches of weapons, saddles, shields, and buildings, and maps. And I Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: really want Ary to explore this room more because, like, what knowledge could he be hoarding here for himself that he's keeping from everyone else? Rachel: I know. I need first of all, I need to see those maps. we need more maps. but Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: I also need to know what's in that beaker. Because the fact that it's purple, like, is that potentially something to do with the Nocturne, which has Kate: Ooh. Rachel: a purple cover and we're getting artwork of Ary on like a purple background? Kate: that's interesting. I hadn't connected that, but the color does seem significant. What is that? Rachel: I know, I'm like on the lookout for purple and any signs of flowers, you know? Kate: Yes. Also, I mean the one potion that we know that Simeon makes a lot of is like the power suppressing potion, right? Is this him Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: making the power suppressing potion for Ary and Gavin's baby that he's hiding? Rachel: You mean Lou? Kate: Maybe Lou. Rachel: He's giving Lou her dose in her breakfast every morning. Kate: Yeah, that's something that we said that we were gonna be on the lookout for because if we've already met their child, then you know, it hasn't been obvious based on powers, right? And we know that their child would be very powerful. So we're on the lookout for any any sneaky way that Simeon Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: could be like suppressing powers of somebody, because that'll be a big hint. Rachel: Y yeah, yeah. And I really hope we get a scene from Ary next book of her just walking into his mad scientist laboratory and smashing beakers. Kate: yes. Simeon then asks Ary how many of the gods' power she can wield, and she confirms she has wielded all but Nyxar's. He then asks whether her powers came to her when she faced Molochai, and she confirms that none of them did. She believes this is due to a combination of her powers still being suppressed or starved out of her by Simeon, and having given up before going to meet Molochai. Like the mental state that she was in, basically, when she she confronted him. But Simeon doesn't seem as convinced of this, and maybe he believes that Molochai has Nyxar's power? Rachel: I think he definitely knows someone either has Nyxar's power or did something to Nyxar. Because Ary telling him she can see the spoke but no longer grasp it, seems to confirm it for him. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we've s we get a lot of kind of hints in this section in particular about Nyxar and like why she can't wield his Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: power. And it's obviously not super clear, but like he's just missing. Everywhere he's supposed to be, he's not there. Rachel: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Kate: Simeon explains that the powers of the Selvaren are most powerful together, meaning that Ary's power will not be fully realized until she can wield all 12 powers. And since the wards are the only thing able to block Molochai's magic, Simeon insists that he teach Ary the power of the wards to give them more time to train her other powers. Ary agrees to train with him on one condition that he answer her questions. One question equals one hour of her time. Simeon refuses to respond when Ary asks why he's getting weaker and his wards are failing. But when she asks why he waited 400 years to wake her up, she realizes he was trying to outlast Molochai. He hoped Molochai would give up and move on, but Ary's disgusted that he let his people suffer for all that time. Rachel: As Ary begins to learn the bloodline magic, she describes it as quote, knowledge of spells, words in the language of the gods. So we get confirmation here on our theory that understanding the language of the Selvaren is the key to magic, which obviously love that. And we're going Kate: Yes. Mm-hmm. Rachel: to be continuing to look for any hints or clues of that language. Like, you know, I know we got. At the Reverie Ball, we got the toast. So I'm sure we're gonna see Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: more of that in the Nocturne. Fingers crossed. Kate: Yes. Yes. Ary struggles to learn the ward magic, and Simeon admits that it took him years to learn it. Years that Ary does not have. After an hour, Ary asks her next question, demanding to know what Simeon did to her. He tells her he sterilized her because their bloodline's power, quote, had to end with us. She pushes him further and he reveals that he waited nine months to put her to sleep after he took her from Gavin because she was pregnant. And she had begged him to keep it safe from everyone, even her, at all costs. And he also describes how he had to cut the baby from her and she was awake and felt everything. No wonder she has PTSD. Like, my God. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah, that's I mean, I know there's people who Kate: It's so brutal. Rachel: I know there's people who like give birth today without drugs, even though they have them readily available for anybody who wants them. But the idea of a C-section without drugs, like I don't think they do that. Kate: Nope. No, they definitely don't. so yeah, that's like 'cause it's I mean, it was understandable for her to have PTSD even just having lost a baby in any capacity, right? But Rachel: Yeah. Kate: to ha no to understand how gory that birth was and how just like holy shit Rachel: Yeah. Kate: traumatizing that would be like my god. I'd yeah, that was I was not expecting that to be the story of the birth. That's so brutal. Rachel: I know, because the first thought I had in The Silversmith, and I think you did as well, when they described the smile-shaped scar, that is how Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: everybody describes a C-section scar. That was literally the first thought Kate: Yes. Rachel: I have. So it's nice to get that confirmation, but it just made this book so much darker when we Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: find out the details of it. Kate: yeah. Rachel: I also wonder if Simeon actually sterilized her because was that his initial response to get her to stop asking questions or did he actually sterilize her during the c-section? Kate: Don't know. that's definitely something that all we'll I feel like we're always kind of on the lookout in these books of like a surprise pregnancy or something, you know, Rachel: Yeah. Kate: but certainly if we see Gavin and Ary reunite, you know, we'll see if we get another baby. Rachel: Beyond that for me, because I'm like, why does he she need to marry Elias? as this book continues and Kate: Right. Rachel: the the chapters that are coming up, they have reasons for why they start to go through with the marriage. But like, why does she need to? And like, why did that prophecy ever exist? Even if it was not real. Maybe it we, you know, we we we're conflicted on whether we think it was real or not. But I just kept going back to like. They needed to have a child together. And if Kate: Yeah Rachel: that was the case and he sterilized her, he knew that he that he she couldn't have a child with Elias. So I don't know. Like there's just things aren't adding up for me. Kate: Right. Well, because also, even if he believes that he sterilized her for whatever reason, she can regenerate, right? her organs can can fully regenerate. So why wouldn't they be able to heal from whatever Rachel: That's true. Kate: surgical thing he might have done to sterilize her? Like, how would he even go about accomplishing that when she can fully heal herself? Like, even if he took her Rachel: That's a really good point. Kate: whole uterus out, wouldn't she just grow a new one? Like Rachel: Right. Right. She was she Kate: So how would he even go about sterilizing her? Rachel: was literally soup in the last book and she came back to life. Kate: Yeah, she she regenerated from soup. But I'm also interested in why he thinks that their bloodline should end. And if so, why would he have allowed her child to live? Rachel: And why wouldn't he have killed Ary at any point in the past four hundred years? Kate: Right. Yeah, there's just so many there's so much that's not adding up still with this of if the bloodline has to end with you, why would you grant her request to keep her Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: child safe? Rachel: the fact that Simeon claims that their bloodline needs to end, but allows Ary and this baby to live implies to me that both Ary well, we know Ary can't stay dead. She keeps coming back. It makes me think that the baby has the same powers. Kate: Maybe. Yeah. Cause I don't I don't necessarily trust that Simeon would just keep the baby alive out of the goodness of his heart. Cause I don't know that Rachel: Agree. Kate: his heart has that much goodness. Rachel: Agree. And again, if Lou's entire family was killed by the butcher, but she wasn't killed, Might be more proof that Lou's the baby. Kate: That's true. That's true. So we get a little bit more about what Simeon did with that baby. he says that he kept the baby with Ary in her coffin for, quote, a while, but woke the baby up before her, saying, quote, it's not your child anymore. Emphasis on the child. He also claims that they the child is safe and loved. So obviously Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: we're thinking that her baby is now an adult. Right. The emphasis was Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: on child, so Rachel: not a baby. Not a baby. Kate: Right, just not a baby. So Rachel: Not a child, yeah. Kate: yeah. So does that mean that maybe she's already met this person? Rachel: Well, obviously I think so, and I think it's Lou. Kate: Right. And I think Rachel: And Kate: you might be right. Rachel: Yeah, and in some ways, I feel like Lou is the less painful option of the options that we have. So as we continue with this episode, we're gonna talk about Ben Wynterton, who is the other option, and he is a full grown adult. Whereas Lou at least is a teenager. And to me, I think that it would be less painful because at least we get to see her come up grow up a little bit. And at least Elias Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: got to see her grow up. but I do think she's gonna be an absolute nightmare when she realizes the butcher who killed her entire family is actually her father. Kate: Yeah, this is the trauma just keeps Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: keeps going. This is I guess this is a form of of generational trauma, right? Rachel: Yeah. Kate: nobody is safe. Rachel: Yeah, when I so LJ Claren does AMAs all the time. So of cour and one of the ones she did recently was give me a character and I'll give you a song. So of course I had to say Lou to see what she'd Kate: Of course. Rachel: say. And she did smells like teen spirit, which is certainly angry kind of teenager song. Kate: Yeah, it's angsty as hell. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Simeon refuses to tell Ary anything else, again manipulating her to do what he wants by withholding information from her. And Ary, overwhelmed with emotion, runs into Eli on her way back to her room and she lets him comfort her. And his warmth is soothing to her, even if it's not what she really wants. Rachel: Well, obviously since he knows literally nothing of her situation and he can't know, she can't really Kate: Right. Rachel: tell him. So yeah. There's just as much as he's trying here, there's just nothing he can do. Kate: Yeah. There's nothing he can do because he's never going to be who she really wants or needs. So Back in her room alone with Shera, Ary is heartbroken all over again by now the combined loss of Gavin and their child. Then two months have passed, in which time Ary has begrudgingly continued to train with Simeon. He keeps her compliant by threatening to reveal her relationship with the butcher to her people because he is a manipulative dick. And Ary finds moments of joy spending time with her friends, but she finds herself slipping more and more back into her depression. On Gavin's birthday, Ary allows herself a day to fully wallow in her room, refusing to see anyone but Damond and Gemma. She whispers her feelings to Gavin, holding out hope for a reply. And I do think that maybe he can hear her, even if he can't reply yet. Rachel: Yeah, I agree. also thank God she has Damond here. Because yes, Gemma knows her feelings for Gavin, but I'm happy she also has someone who also loved Gavin that she can spend time with. Kate: Right, somebody else who's fully mourning as well. 'Cause Rachel: Yeah, mm-hmm. Kate: Gemma can maybe empathize, but she Rachel: Yeah. Kate: doesn't she didn't care for Gavin the way that Damond and and Ary did. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Rachel: Yeah, she can sympathize but not empathize, probably, right? Kate: Mm-hmm. And in this time, Ary has also been growing closer to Eli, though the relationship is not physical at all. And Ary claims that part of her is quote dead. One day, Eli follows Ary to the library, which is large but contains no information about Nyrida's history prior to 400 years ago or any info on lands beyond Nyrida's borders. And Shera notes how he follows her around like a puppy, as if he's trying to atone for something. And this is a reminder that Shera and Gemma don't actually know all the details about Ary's attack or how Eli treated her afterwards. So that Shera would definitely rip his throat out if she knew. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Also important to note What information is missing from the library? Just again, Kate: Right. Rachel: clearly somebody's erasing history, and I obviously believe that it's Simeon. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: Because it's interesting that the stuff that's like missing was in that hidden library at the barracks. Like I wonder who put it there. Kate: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no details about the Rexus dynasty that came before. Rachel: Mm. Kate: No details of continents that people know exist but have no information about. Like Rachel: Mm. Kate: it it is interesting because obviously Gemma probably knows more than like the average person in the caves, but she's still aware of these things that She just knows that she doesn't like she she knows what she doesn't know. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: You know what I mean? And I don't I I'm curious how many other people in the caves are aware that there's things that do they just don't have information about. are people Rachel: Right. Kate: fully oblivious to the fact that there's other continents out there or do they know and just don't care that they don't have that knowledge? Like, you know, what's the awareness level of What's being kept from them? Rachel: Mm-hmm. And was the Rexus family actually evil? Kate: Right. Or is that just a convenient narrative to explain why you got rid of them? Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Ary isn't sure she can trust Elias yet with the truth of who she really is or what's been taken from her, but she does confide that Simeon has been keeping things from her, just like he has with Eli. And this is, something that and in any kind of a society where knowledge is being kept from people. Sharing knowledge amongst yourselves is always a form of resistance. So the fact that Ary is starting to open up and share this information with Eli is a good sign. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: and it's, you know, the start of how you overthrow the people that are withholding the knowledge. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: And Eli suggests going to Peradine to get the enchanted book that Ary told him about previously, in case it contains information that Simeon won't tell them. And of course, Eli only thinks that the book is worth pursuing now that Ary has revealed her identity, even though he completely dismissed the idea when she told him about it as Fera. Rachel: Yep. Very annoying. But, at least he's showing that he's willing to listen to her. Again, not ideal. but he could use his position as commander to completely run the show. Especially since, you know, we've learned from him and Alistair and Simeon that the people don't fully trust her. He's really still the one in the position of power here. Even if it's not like Kate: That's true. Rachel: Magical power, Kate: Right. So they start making plans to travel to Peradine, but Eli warns that the Duke will likely ask to sleep with Ary in exchange for the book. Rachel: What the fuck? That's so gross. Kate: It's so gross. Unable to sleep, Ary goes to visit Damond in the middle of the night, who reveals that Gavin had kept a list of the butcher's victims and had been sending money to their families for about 200 years. He funds this effort with a large amount of land that he owns. Since his death, his land now belongs to Ary, since he left everything to her in his will. And I wonder if owning this much land in Nyrida would make Gavin some kind of lord. I kind of like the sound of Lord Gavin Smyth. Rachel: I do like that. I also like the idea of Ary being independently wealthy, so she's not dependent on Elias or Simeon. But I'm also a little worried that this list of names is gonna come back to bite them in the end somehow. Kate: It's a good point, though it's also a record of his attempts to atone, so maybe he'll get like some grace for that. Rachel: Maybe. I'm just thinking if they bring him to court, we've got a record of everybody that he's killed for the last however many years, two hundred years. Kate: Yeah, that's true. I feel like like if they ever brought him to court there would be enough other evidence beyond that. Rachel: I know. No, I know, I know. I mean, it's also like hopefully it's the same situation as Ary, like kill him once, kill him twice, doesn't matter. Kate: Yeah, true, true. As long as that one part of his soul still exists in Ary, right? Rachel: Yeah. Kate: Damond offers to come with Ary to Peradine, but Ary insists that he stay behind in case Gavin comes back. And Damond tells her that Gavin isn't coming back, but I do wonder if he had any advanced warning before Gavin shows up at the end. do you think he was just as surprised as Ary when Gavin burst through those doors? Rachel: I think he was absolutely as surprised. I think Gavin waited 402 years for Ary, died, was dead for several months, doing who knows what he was doing in the underworld, and then crawled his way out of the earth to get back to her. There's no way that Gavin stopped to make small talk before finding his wife. I don't think he was just trying to plan a dramatic entrance. I think that this was the quickest he could get there. Kate: That's a fair point. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: So then Ary, Mavic, Elias, Ezra, Reed, Gemma, and a few others begin their three day journey to the sunny seaside city of Peradine. Rachel: And this reminded me a little bit of the travels to Astreona in Fury Bound. The northerners were literally stripping their clothes off on the journey as the terrain turned flat and sandy and the trees shifted from oaks to palm trees. And we even get to see Eli without a shirt on, which was nice. Kate: Yes, yes it was. And it definitely felt like a a similar journey of people just like feeling completely out of their element and being like, Wow, I didn't even know that this existed. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Combat the heat, Peradine citizens wear skimpy silk clothing. Even the Duke, Melonius, and A Moment for the Fashion. Or kind of, with the Duke. The Duke is a bald middle-aged man wearing baggy blue silk pants with a matching shirt he keeps open to show off his pierced nipples. His ears are also lined with piercings. Rachel: Ugh, I wonder how many STDs this man has. Kate: I just have to hope that since sex is such an important part of the culture in Peradine that there would maybe be less stigma around getting treatment for STDs, or less stigma around testing and prevention. I don't know. Fingers crossed, because otherwise this place sounds like a fucking nightmare. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: The Duke doesn't know who Ary is and is shocked to hear that the Queen is alive and standing in front of him, though it still doesn't stop him from leering at her because he's a creep. The Duke provides clothing for everyone to attend dinner that night and another moment for the fashion. Ary Rachel: Better fashion this time. Kate: be better fashion, less pierced nipples. Ary is wearing an incredible pale pink silk strappy dress with an open back, plenty of side boob, and a slit up to her hip. She keeps her hair down to provide more coverage, but she doesn't seem fazed by the dress and exudes confidence. Gemma is given a beautiful navy silk dress that shows off her growing baby bump, while the men all wear black pants and various colors of light cotton shirts. Rachel: It's very much giving the gang goes to Miami. Kate: It is, yeah. Going out on the town. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: At dinner, Ary brings up the enchanted book that they came to retrieve. Melonius tells them that it was entrusted to his ancestors centuries ago by an unknown source. It has never been opened, since it requires magic to open that Melonius doesn't have. And I wonder how many centuries? Is it four hundred years, maybe? And who gave it to them? Maybe a certain mysterious lady god that might have reason to hide info from Simeon and or Molochai? Rachel: that's interesting. It could also be whatever person hid a bunch of history books at the barracks. maybe Christabel setting up the path for Kate: Maybe. Rachel: Ary to put the puzzle pieces together. Kate: Right, right. But when he says centuries, I'm thinking, four hundred years, the timing might align. Rachel: Yeah, that sounds about right. Kate: But of course the Duke doesn't plan to give them the book without payment. He tells Ary, quote, Spend a night with me and the book is yours for as long as you wish, along with my home, my resources, my money, anything. Rachel: Who would ever Kate: Yeah. Rachel: trust that? the it's a gross saying of putting the cow before the milk. Is that what it is? Kate: No, it it's Are you trying to say the like who would buy the cow if you give the milk out for free? Rachel: Something like that, yes. That's what the old ladies Kate: Ha ha Rachel: say. especially a lot of people said Kate: Right. Rachel: that to me when I moved in with my husband, well, many years before he was my husband. this is a scenario where I think I believe that saying because who would trust this guy to follow through on what he's promising just because she sleeps with him once? Like Kate: Right, don't don't pay up Rachel: I don't trust that at all. Kate: front. If you don't have the goods yet, don't pay in full. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: But despite having predicted this outcome, Elias immediately jumps up and puts a dagger to the Duke's throat. Rachel: And in this moment, I totally understand why some readers are Elias girlies because meow. Kate: Ha ha. Rachel: And here we even get a touch her and diet moment because Melonius put his hand on Ary's knee. Gross. And Elias says, quote, hands off or your blood will paint your precious marble floors. So, you know, I know he's not Gavin, but we love to see it. Kate: We do love to see it. And that's a pretty big threat because you know how porous marble is. That blood will be a bitch to get out. Rachel: I did not know that. This is a g interior design one one. Kate: Yeah, don't mar marble can stain pretty easily. Rachel: Clearly I have no I have no marble. I have no marble. I have formica. Kate: Yeah, I I also I have I have fake marble quartz, marble looking quartz. Rachel: That sounds nice. That sounds nice. Kate: But unfortunately, a knife to the Duke's throat still isn't enough to dissuade him. But Shera is. Ary tells Elias to stand down and instead has Shera pounce on the Duke's chest. The Duke gives in, saying he'll send the books to her immediately. So this clearly was Ary's plan all along. She knew what the Duke would ask for and had made a plan ahead of time with Shera. Definitely a good plan. But I'm not totally sure why she didn't bring Eli in on the bit so he didn't have to freak out in the first place. Rachel: Well, I don't know, I kinda liked that she had a surprise up her sleeve. And even though he's an annoying cock block, I enjoyed that Ezra thought it was funny too. Kate: Yeah. it was it was definitely fun and we did get the touch her and die moment, which is nice. Rachel: Yes. Mm-hmm. Kate: But still, it seems like, that could have still gone a little awry. She didn't know exactly how Eli would respond, so she could have Rachel: Yeah, and I Kate: it it ended up okay, but Rachel: You wouldn't want to call this, but I do think it's a little bit of a trope because we see it a lot in romantasy where the FMC keeps her plans close to her chest and doesn't let in her inner circle. And she has to eventually build that trust with them. So yeah, maybe we call it like a secret scheme. Kate: Yeah, yeah, maybe. And I do hope to see some more schemes like this from Ary, but one thing that also potentially made this whole scenario a little bit riskier for them is, you know, like obviously Ary was always going to get on his bad side if this was her plan all along, but giving Eli the chance to also kind of attack the Duke. We're gonna see that they made a very unfortunate enemy with this move. Rachel: Yeah, this wasn't a good this wasn't the ma this wasn't the best diplomatic move they could have made. Kate: Right. Yeah, it definitely came to to bite them in the ass a little bit. After dinner, Ary hears some pleas from Peradine citizens that wish to come live in the caves, including a man named Ben Wynterton, and that's Wynterton with a Y, who is a bastard son of Elias' father. She agrees to let all of them come back to the caves. And Ary learns that the misspelling of a last name indicates a bastard child, and she realizes that's why Smyth spells his name with a Y as well. Rachel: This was a huge reveal for a lot of people. I remember seeing so many questions to LJ asking why Gavin's last name was spelled with a Y. So it's Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: not something we really spent a lot of time talking about, but I know a lot of people enjoyed this reveal. Kate: Right. Well, because with Smyth's it's like, yeah, it was an unusual spelling of the name, but it's not like we, you know, had learned about his father with Smith with an I. You know what I mean? So like whereas with Wynterton Rachel: No, but the title of the book the title of the book, The Silversmith, but then his name is smelled Smyth, like it stood out a lot. Kate: right, right, right. Yeah, that's true. But still, I don't know. It wasn't it's very obvious and Rachel: But yeah, with Wynterton it's very obvious. Mm-hmm. Kate: there's the direct comparison, Rachel: Yeah. Kate: versus Smyth. It was just that's an interesting choice, but it's not clearly a misspelling. Rachel: I also want to talk about though, Ary making the decision to have these people come back to the caves. Because it's a big moment for them. They are a very exclusionary people, I would say. They're really keeping a Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: tight-knit circle at the caves, and that's how they've been able to survive for 400 years. So this is a big moment. We're letting new people in, but also, is it another thing that's gonna Come back and maybe bite Ary in the ass in the end. Kate: It's possible, because like we said before, Ary has a lot of work to do Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: with the people of the caves to combat the very separatist kind of mentality Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: that they have, right? and so bringing this group of people in, I mean I envision that they're going to be ostracized and treated very differently when they're in the caves. I feel like that's probably something that we're gonna be seeing in the next few books of them kind of becoming this faction within the cave community of, you know, the other ones Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: that are amongst them. I'm thinking of it another similarity to the Hunger Games of when Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: the survivors from District twelve join the community of District Thirteen, another underground community that people, you know, have a very strict kind of way of life. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: that the this whole group of newcomers is coming in and disrupting and just, you know, there's distrust and all kinds Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: of different conflicts that come up with that. Rachel: Yeah, and I hope that they are trustworthy, then she's not accidentally letting a spy into the caves. Kate: Right. That's true, especially with what we learn about the Duke later and how Rachel: Mm. Kate: he is not trustworthy, which obviously we already got those vibes because he's a total creep, but who knows, you know, what his citizens are like. But also let's talk about this Ben guy. Rachel: Ha ha ha. Kate: it seems like they're setting him up to have some kind of significance. Like I don't on my first read, he was on the list of people that I was like, is he possibly Gavin and Ary's child? You know, like I feel he was Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: on that short list. But I don't necessarily believe that much anymore. But because I think your Lou theory is is a stronger option. But I still think that Ben is going to have some kind of significance. Rachel: Well, I agree, and I think he's intentionally introduced as a possibility. So let's break down his description because I I definitely think he was written to make us think he could be the child. Quote The approaching tall young man had thick dark hair with a sharp jaw, green eyes, and freckles over the bridge of his strong nose. And that certainly sounds like a potential combination of Ary and Gavin. That thick, dark hair, he has Ary's green eyes and Ary's freckles. It's interesting that he's essentially Eli's half-brother as well. So just like Lou, he's basically a member of Eli's family. And it's also why I originally thought here that maybe Ary had twins, and there were two serious Kate: Mm. Rachel: candidates for babies, but. LJ turned that down and she also said that there are red herrings. So, like you, I'm also really leaning toward the Lou idea. I like I like Lou a lot more for the baby. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: and mostly because I think that Gavin is a hundred percent a girl dad. Kate: I I do really wanna see that. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: I'll I'll I do I worry that he ha would have the tendency though of like a boy gets close to her and he goes get to get the shotgun. You know, he kinda gives those vibes, but like Rachel: Yes, he is touch her and die, yes. Kate: right. But I don't love that in a girl dad. So he'll Rachel: Yeah. Kate: have to he'll have to learn how to let go a little bit, which I think is gonna be difficult for him. Rachel: Ary will rein him in. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: Ary will rein him in. that being said, I need to know who Ben's mom is because what the fuck? Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: when did this happen? How did this happen? And Eli clearly recognizes him too. he starts chugging wine and leaves the room. Kate: Yeah, there there's there's history here. Eli Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: is clearly aware of this guy Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: and it's a sore spot. I Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: am really curious what their history actually is. Like did Ben grow up in the caves for a while, you know, before he moved to Peradine? Or like what's What what have the interactions between them been, right? is Eli just aware of his existence but didn't actually have that much interaction with him? Or have they, you know, had to like did they grow up together at any point, before Ben left? Yeah. Rachel: Is he older? Is he older? Kate: Ooh, that is interesting. Rachel: Yeah, because that could threaten Elias' role within the caves if it's this sort of hereditary Kate: Right. Rachel: thing. We're still not really sure what role the Wintertons play, why they're so important. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: You know, I have this sort of tinfoil hat theory that they are actually the Rexus family. Kate: I I Rachel: Ha ha ha. Kate: hadn't thought of that one. You hadn't brought that one up yet, but I I mean that's interesting. Rachel: Well, 'cause I don't really have facts. I don't have any or excuse me, I don't have any Kate: Right. Rachel: evidence. I have zero receipts. It's just a gut feeling because who are the Wintertons? Why do they matter? we've talked about this before. Why did Simeon ally with the Wintertons and Kate: Right, why did he need them? Rachel: Exactly. If they're the Rexus family, now that's very interesting. Kate: That is very interesting. I I like the idea. Rachel: And it would make sense why Ary needed to marry Elias then, because he would be the descendant of the Rexus family. They're saying that with the new line, Christabel's line, that even though Molochai and Simeon were the ones that took over Nyrida, the crowns always passed down to the female. So that Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: pretty much makes it so that nobody could refute Ary. or their potential future child's claim to the throne. Kate: That's true. Let's gather some more receipts. You have none. Rachel: I have none. I have none. This is literally I it out everything that I have here. Kate: It's mostly vibes. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: yeah, it is it is interesting. going back to Ben, I think that another piece that is making me feel less confident that he is still kind of in the running to be Gavin and Ary's child is the fact that he did, at least for some of his life, I don't remember if he was in Peradine, like how long he's been in Peradine. I don't know if we know Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: that. But at the very least, he's been there long enough to be unhappy enough to want to go to the caves, right? Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: and Simeon did say that whoever Gavin and Ary's child is, that they are very much loved. And it just doesn't feel like Ben had a very loving or healthy upbringing. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: And so it's, you know, and it seems like at the very least there's a lot of resentment towards his existence. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: and so I think that that puts a little bit of a a barrier for him being their child as well, just hearing that he doesn't seem to be very loved, at least right now. Rachel: I think the number one clue that he's not her child is that he was in Peradine. Because Kate: And he was so far from Simeon. Rachel: yes, because Simeon has to dose the baby. We I there's no way Simeon's not dosing the baby. Kate: Right. And we know that he just he likes to have that stranglehold of control. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: And even if he's keeping an eye on Ben in Peradine, he's still far enough away that he doesn't have that complete control that yeah, I think Simeon would definitely Rachel: Yeah. Kate: want. Rachel: He would need to because Molochai would go after the baby otherwise. Kate: If he knows about it. Rachel: But I'm saying if he's not dosing it, he'd be able to sense the magic. Kate: Right. Well, and everybody I feel like it would be really hard to keep those powers a secret. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: From anybody, really. Rachel: Mm. Kate: that night, Elias comes to visit Ary in her room and admits how much he cares for her, though he's worried that she hates him. While Ary doesn't hate him, she's still hurt by how he failed to help her when she needed him, and she still only has feelings for Gavin. Elias tells her, quote, You're killing me here. It's been two months. I need something. And begs her to kiss him. Internally, Ary admits that she has no desire to kiss him, but she's too exhausted to say no, and so she relents and says yes. It almost feels good for a second, but then she becomes fully aware of everything he's not or every one he's not, and she pulls away. And obviously, this is again giving me bad vibes for Elias. I am not vibing with the idea that he's just so pent up after two months of wanting Ary and not having her. Their relationship isn't physical. It's like he's acting like he's gonna spontaneously combust if he doesn't fuck or get some kind of relief from her. And it's like, I promise, you will survive. Like jerk off a few times if you need to relieve some tension, but no one owes you physical intimacy just because you're horny. Rachel: Yeah, yeah, I agree. it's ridiculous that men act that way. in this situation, I don't think that's what he means. I mean, he only asks for a kiss. And I think he's just feeling so much regret for his actions and his love for Ary that he needs some kind of reassurance here that he's making like strides in the right direction or she's starting to trust him. And Ary even thinks, quote, I looked up into his eyes and searched for a sign of dishonesty or ill will or bad intentions. I found none. So if he was just wanting sex here, I don't think we would have gotten that line and I think Ary would have come to a different conclusion. Kate: That's probably true. I think it was also just hearing Ary's internal monologue of like knowing that she doesn't want this and she doesn't want to be physically intimate with him, but gives in because she's too tired. Like that really gave me the ick. And I know that he Elias doesn't have that that info from Ary. She doesn't communicate that to him, but we get that. And so it just makes the whole situation feel yucky because we know that she doesn't really want it. And Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: it's like he's just wearing her down. Rachel: Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a reason you don't like the miscommunication trope. So maybe we should put the put the energy toward Kate: I know. Rachel: the miscommunication. On a separate note, there's a pretty foreboding line here. Quote, he was my friend. I knew that he'd lay down his life for mine, but I didn't trust him with my heart. It would make sense for his redemption arc to end tragically. So I'm concerned about this line. But the only thing that's giving me hope here is that we know that death can be reversible. Simeon confirms that. And it seems like Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: Ary has that power. She just hasn't quite figured out how to tap into it for other people yet. So I'm wondering if that's gonna be like our big dramatic moment in one of the books that Eli sacrifices himself for Ary and she brings him back. Kate: Yeah, I think right now I would really just want a new love interest to pop up, or potential love interest to pop up for Eli. Because I'm getting worn down by his desire for her and her complete apathy towards him physically. Like she just does not want anything to do with him in her mind. And so it's just like making me feel more annoyed with Eli's character. so I think that if we get I th I think for me to like get the full redemption arc from Eli and to not feel conflicted over him anymore, I need him to focus his romantic interest somewhere else for a while. Rachel: yeah. I think we're gonna get that. Kate: I think so. Rachel: we talked to LJ about this. A lot of people are saying that Eli reminds them of Dorian from Throne of Glass, which I know you haven't finished the series yet. For you and anybody else, this isn't really spoilers, but it it is if you haven't read it at all. for where you're at in the series, it's not spoilers. For anybody else who hasn't started it, it might be. So Fast forward 15 seconds. he's sort of introduced as this initial love interest and then just becomes like her good friend. And that's the vibe that I'm getting out of Elias here. Kate: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely it definitely seems that way. So once he starts focusing his romantic interest elsewhere, I think that I'm gonna like Eli a lot more. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: because right now I don't know that I'd be devastated if he died. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: especially if Gavin is back in the picture. I just don't know how much I'll miss Eli, but I think he do he still has the potential for that redemption arc. I just need him to not want Ary so much because she's just not into it. And so I don't know, it's a disconnect there. But Eli is still very much not getting that vibe from Ary. he's not picking up what she's putting down, because he gets down on one knee and confesses his love for her and proposes to her, asking her to marry him when they get back to the caves. Rachel: no. Kate: Yeah. So it just got super awkward in here because Ary still hasn't forgiven Eli for how he's wronged her, and she really doesn't feel anything more than friendship for him. But she's also thinking about all the people relying on her and the role that she has to play, the obligations that she has, and she decides that saying no isn't really an option, so instead she tells him that she needs time, which disappoints Eli, but he agrees to whatever she needs. When Eli leaves, Ary spends the rest of the night drinking an entire bottle of wine, causing her to wake up with a raging hangover. Rachel: And Gemma arrives at her door and is awfully judgy, telling Ary that this is not the way that she should cope. okay, Gemma, we get that you're pregnant and not having fun right now. But number one, you loved rum like two months ago. And number two, Ary never drinks. Like she had a bottle of wine once. One bottle of wine once. Calm down. Calm down. Kate: Yeah. Yeah, it definitely did come off as judgy. And if it if she had some concern over Ary, they're not at home, they're in Peradine, and they're potentially in a risky situation, she she's not communicating that, you know, she's just communicating the judgment. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kate: Duke Melonius has the enchanted book packed in an ornate chest to go back with the group to the caves. And Ary can feel the magic coming off the book, and the chest has, quote, an embroidered emblem of a bird, a hawk maybe, white but darkened with age. And I'm not sure what this emblem could signify, but I feel like it's important to note as a potential clue to the book's origins. As they start their journey, Ezra finally speaks to Ary after ignoring her since he learned she was alive. He says her display at dinner the night before was impressive, and they agree to talk when they get back to the caves. Along the road, they come across a gruesome murder scene. A woman's body lies discarded on the side of the road with her heart ripped out and laying beside her, identical to Ary's death in Brinnea. Ary is convinced that the murder was staged by Molochai as a trap for Ary. She tells Finn and Gemma to run away as quickly as they can, and Finn doesn't hesitate. She tells Mavic and Ezra to follow them, but they refuse, determined to stay by Ary's side. Rachel: This is just so messed up, and here we get another little clue about Molochai's powers. quote, Molochai was taunting me. I could sense the cold nearby, the absence of all things good. And again, we get another hint that Molochai's soul is missing. Non existent. Yes, Kate: Yep. Just a cold black hole where his heart should be. Rachel: yes. Kate: And suddenly they're attacked by shadows, which quickly impale three of their soldiers. The shadows grab Ary by the ankles and drag her swiftly away from the others. And she tries grabbing at the shadows, binding her, but they seem to be alive and objecting to her touch, which I think is interesting because it's another example of the shadows seeming to be sentient. like along with the mention of the shadows at Molochai's palace we discussed in the last episode. I just think that it's interesting that these shadows Are alive in some way. They're not just like weapons or or tools as an extension of the person wielding them. It seems like they have some kind of sense sentience that they're alive or making decisions somehow. I'm not sure, but it's I just found that interesting to note. They stop in a clearing and Ary tries to use Aesta's light to see her surroundings, but the light keeps getting snuffed out. And I wonder if this is Nyxar nullifying the other god's powers? Rachel: It definitely seems like it. Throughout their interaction, when Ary tries to use her powers on him, he's even able to snuff them out with his shadows, any kind of power she tries. So that's concerning. Kate: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, because it again, is it because we know Nyxar has the ability to nullify the other gods' powers. So is that what's happening here? Or is Molochai just so much stronger than her because she doesn't have all twelve of the gods behind her? Not totally clear, but it like you said, it definitely feels like that's what's happening. Molochai shows himself just before suffocating Ary with quote corrupted darkness. And Ary wakes up in the clearing with Molochai nearby and he drops some cryptic but devastating lore on her. This is like the evil villain's monologue, basically. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: He tells her that he found out her location from the Duke of Peradine, who came running to tell them about her as soon as they left his city. Sounds like Ary made a new enemy, like we were talking about, that display at dinner really bit them in the ass because he immediately went running to Molochai. Rachel: honestly when Ezra liked her plan, we should have known it was a bad idea. Kate: Haha Rachel: Also, how is the Duke Kate: Mm. Rachel: of Peradine allied with Molochai? why isn't Molochai invading Peradine? Kate: I don't know. maybe they've got some kind of agreement or maybe they weren't allied before and this is just like the Duke switching sides at this moment. Molochai recounts how he worked to break Gavin's spirit with centuries of torture, but Gavin refused to give in, only following the orders he was bound to by the blood oath. And Molochai mentions a bargain with the gods here, saying that all magic comes at a cost and that the gods demand payment. He says that he should have just killed Gavin when he refused to torture people on his behalf because he was going to fulfill the bargain another way. So it seems like the deal with the gods demands a payment maybe in the form of torturing people. maybe Molochai created an army of pliant soldiers that would torture as many people as required to fulfill the bargain with the gods, since Gavin wouldn't do it for him. And I wonder if Ary's torture in the showers was part of this payment as well. Rachel: From this section of the book, it certainly sounds like Molochai made some kind of a bargain for magic and that he believed that torturing innocents would fulfill the bargain somehow. So yeah, it definitely makes sense within the context of this section. Kate: Right. And again might give us some other clue to the insidions and what's driving them or how Molochai or why Molochai is controlling them that way. Or why they're so evil. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Right, yeah. Kate: Molochai confirms that he did kill Ary in Brinnea to get her powers, but when it didn't work, he realized it would ultimately help him anyway. He tells her that they should join forces, but her husband was in the way and that's why he killed Gavin. So does Molochai want to marry Ary? Like is that what he means when he says join forces? Rachel: That's gross. I mean, but maybe. Kate: I know. Rachel: Like, I I would hope not, but you know, clearly he has no soul, so I don't know. Molochai reveals here that he gave Gavin Ary's name, knowing he would take his own life, because, quote, your husband would have been a problem. So, to your point, it does kind of sound like that may be the case. He also confirms that Ary would have been resurrected again if Gavin had killed her. So Unless he's lying or mistaken, we get confirmation here that it's impossible to permanently kill Ary. Kate: He also says that Gavin's love for Ary was his undoing, and that it was her father's undoing as well, telling her that she has a devastating impact on the men in her life. And obviously this was giving Practical Magic vibes, but Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: also who is her dad? This is practically the only reference we get to him, and it's so vague. Rachel: Yeah. And when Ary questions Molochai about her father, he says, quote, it seems that your uncle has many things to atone for. He always did love secrecy. So I wonder if Simeon is responsible for Ary's father's death or at least disappearance, since I don't know that we're both convinced that he's dead dead. Kate: We're never convinced that anyone is dead dead. No body, no crime. Rachel: Well special exactly, especially if we don't see them die. Yeah. Kate: Right. If they die off screen, if there's no real confirmation, if we don't see the body, we don't even know this guy's name. Like we know nothing about him. So Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kate: we can't be sure that he's dead. Molochai calls Ary out for not being able to wield Nyxar's power, saying, quote, A most crucial part of you is missing, and saying how interesting it is that the greatest of them all would abandon her. So is he just talking about the powers or is he talking about her baby and potentially the powers the baby took with it? Rachel: That's interesting. I'm not necessarily convinced it's tied to her baby. So far we haven't really I don't know necessarily seen indication of that, but maybe. So I don't know. Do you want to tell us more about this theory? Kate: So it's it's another half-baked theory, but I've been trying to nail down how exactly powers pass between people, you know. So we know that they can be stolen through murder, pass down through bloodlines, but we kind of theorized before that maybe a child siphons magic from their parents somehow. So just putting some of these potential pieces together, Gavin and Ary's baby would have powers. And if children take a piece of their parents' power, maybe that's where Nyxar's power went. But I'm not fully convinced of it yet, since we don't have concrete knowledge of how the powers actually work, particularly the bloodline powers, that piece is still a little bit fuzzy. I also latched onto the idea of Nyxar being just missing, since that's also what Ezra says later as he's dying when he tells Ary the gods are missing from the temple. So did Nyxar abandon Ary and go to someone else, or does no one have Nyxar's power right now? Or can multiple people have Nyxar's power? Rachel: Right, yes. I know we did talk about the idea of babies siphoning magic from their parents. but in the case of Nyxar specifically, I'm leaning towards someone killed or trapped him because I could see that being the dark bargain that Molochai made to get his extra powers and why he basically has a corrupted version of Nyxar's powers. Kate: So he made you think that maybe he made a deal with a different god, maybe the thirteenth god, to to get power by trapping Nyxar. this this other god wanted to trap Nyxar. Rachel: Maybe. I I think that somehow Molochai played a role in trapping or killing Nyxar. I don't know if it was a deal with another god or not, but that's that's what I think. Kate: And I still have mostly questions and not really a concrete theory. So I'm happy. I'm happy to hear yours if you have stronger feelings about it. Cause I still am just like anything could be possible. Molochai reveals that he's been watching Ary and testing her for months, first by capturing Gemma to see how she would react, and then by sending Alec Gerard and his cronies to quote, break her after he led them to Gavin's body. Rachel: Molochai was also watching Gavin, so obviously he has the same sort of peeping tom powers as Simeon. Kate: Finally, Molochai reveals Ezra and Mavic, tied to trees on the perimeter of the clearing with shadow blades at their throats. He tells Ary that she can only save one and to choose wisely before slitting both their throats and disappearing in a swirl of darkness. Ary believes that she can save them both, having technically saved two lives when she healed Gemma, but she prioritizes Mavic as his wound is deeper. Once Mavic's wound is closed, she moves to Ezra and closes his wound, but her energy is zapped and the wound doesn't stay closed. Knowing he's not going to make it, she apologizes for lying and he asks her to do the right thing for everyone. Rachel: So what's interesting here is that I really don't think Ezra's wound reopens because Ary's power is zapped. She closes his wound. It shouldn't just reopen deeper and bloodier out of nowhere. That's not really how it would work, I don't think. So I think whatever type of spell Molochai used here is what's causing that. And it's and it's intentional to try to to force her to choose somebody. Kate: As Ezra is dying, he describes seeing a beautiful, colorful temple, but he says, quote, the gods are missing just before he dies. And excuse me, what the fuck does that mean? Rachel: That is very concerning, and it certainly seems to be setting up the rest of the series. Simeon previously made it clear that it's a much larger conflict than the feud between two old men. And we theorized previously that something happened to the gods, or at least a god, and this definitely supports that theory. I'm concerned that all of them would be trapped. That's shocking. Kate: Right. Yeah, 'cause y Nyxar so far has been the only one that we're like where he's at. But all of them being missing. Rachel: Wait, I just had a thought. I'm sorry, this like just came to me. So we've theorized about like Ary's role and if if she is the thirteenth god, or like somehow all of the gods, and maybe that's what this is. Like maybe somehow Ary was created to like hold all of the gods. Because we know that she has described herself as like all of these disjointed pieces. what if she is like the ultimate god somehow? And when that deal or that creation happened, Nyxar was like, I don't want to be a part of this. And that's the reason that she can't access Nyxar. Kate: Maybe. we had theorized something like that when we originally saw Ary as the center of the wheel of Rachel: Yes. Mm-hmm. Kate: like she's the anchor point for all of these gods. So Rachel: Yes. she's like the mother. Kate: right. So it I it's possible. And then yeah, to your point, when she describes her soul as like being pieces that are like flung all over the place, she can't quite gather all of them. Rachel: Mm. Kate: Yeah. But still, this is the first time that we hear of all of the gods being missing, and we don't know Rachel: Yes. Kate: what that means or why Nyxar is still separate from the rest of them. Because Ary Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: can access the other gods through the spokes in her wheel. So sh they're not missing for her. But what does it mean that they're not Rachel: Mm hmm. Exactly. Kate: in this temple? Wherever Ezra is, if he's is he in? The the underworld, is he Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: halfway into the underworld at this point and he's seeing something in that realm? Rachel: Yeah, that's what it sounds like. That's how they're describing it, Kate: Yeah. Rachel: yeah. Kate: So at this point, Ary is on the brink of collapse, but Elias and Shera finally find them. Rachel: Shera says that she couldn't find Ary during this ordeal, which makes me think that Molochai's powers can nullify Shera's as well. Or he has is his own type of wards that were able to like block her out during it. Kate: Right. Which again, I need to learn more about Shera's powers. What do Rachel: Yeah. Kate: what how are Umbras connected to the gods? what is their role? How how does it all work? As Elias is reassuring Ary, she hears Gavin's voice and feels his presence briefly. Imagined or real, I think we lean towards real. Rachel: Yes, absolutely. We saw this previously in the book and thought that it was part of their bond. So it certainly seems like Gavin is back from the dead at this point and able to communicate down the bond, or at least he's able to receive communication down the bond. Kate: Back at the caves, Ary comes out of her shock in a meeting with leadership. she awakens into consciousness, like in the middle of a leadership meeting, which is like my worst nightmare. But Eli assures her that Finn and Gemma escaped unscathed and that Mavic was recovering. Insidions have been swarming the border and attacking more towns now that the ward's are weakened. And Valda confirms that Gerard, Stoll, and the Sharpe brothers were seen with the Insidions. Alistair Winterton and his right hand man Harrow proclaim that the people need a wedding, something to provide hope and show a strong unified leadership. Alistair claims that the people are doubting Ary's ability to lead on her own and are worried about her powers being unstable. Rachel: And Alistair says that the people are concerned about whatever the butcher did to her. And Ary basically tells him to keep her and the butcher's name out of his mouth. Kate: Ha ha. Rachel: But also, of course, the people are doubting a powerful woman. We've had several very capable, strong, intelligent, qualified women run for president. And instead we have a decrepit old racist pedophile reality TV star in the White House instead. So, of course, it it does not surprise me at all to see that her people are questioning her power and her Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: ability to hold office essentially. Kate: Right. Which again brings me to my thought from last episode of, you know, why wouldn't Simeon help to boost Ary's reputation before Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: she arrived, right? Because you kind of get it from the citizens' perspective. You have this person who has immense power. You really don't know anything about her. All you know is that, maybe she died and came back, or whatever the lore is around Ary, you can understand how people would be wary of her. She's an unknown. They she didn't grow up in the caves, they don't know her. So I can kind of see it from their perspective, but Simeon had every opportunity to kind of Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: weave a narrative. for her, right, to prepare the citizens for her arrival so that they aren't as unsure. He didn't do that. And I think maybe he did that on purpose, so that she Rachel: Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Kate: would rely on Eli to get that kind of reassurance for the people. Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. Kate: Eli asserts that regardless of a wedding, Ary is their leader and they are behind her. He tells her that if they go through with a wedding, nothing has to change between them, and that it would just be a ceremony. And I will say, the way that he defends her here is going in my pros column for him. I liked this. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Sounds like Eli's starting to grow on you. And I agree. This is a great moment. Kate: Ary is desperate for Gavin to save her from this moment, begging for him to speak to her in her mind, but she doesn't hear him. Ultimately, she agrees to go through at the wedding, but she's clearly hanging on by a thread at the thought. Rachel: And I think this is a pretty critical moment. Ary literally says to Gavin in her mind, quote, stop this. I begged him. Gods, please stop this. And you know, we're we keep talking about how Gavin and Ary have potentially been mind-speaking to one another throughout this book. And I think this is our biggest evidence of that so far, because Gavin certainly obeys. Kate: He certainly obeys in a big way. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: and also it's just interesting for Ary to kind of been fe be feeling here yes, this connection is real that they have. Because so far she's been like hearing him in her head, but she's like, This is my imagination, maybe. Like, it doesn't seem like she's fully convinced up to this point that she's actually speaking to Gavin, you know, or like that the bond and the things that she's been feeling from him or about him. It it just didn't seem up to this point that she was convinced that she wasn't just imagining all of that. But this is, I think, the first time that she's very clearly trying to reach him in a very real way, not just in a I miss you kind of way, but in like a if you are there, please hear me. So I think Rachel: Hmm. Kate: that that's interesting as well. Rachel: Yeah, I think it's like every time I get on a plane and I pray to every single God that exists. Kate: I know I've ignored you before, but hear me. Rachel: Yes. That was the vibe that I got. Kate: Just in case just in case somebody else is right. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Just just in case I picked the wrong one. Kate: At Ezra's funeral, Ary reflects on how far she's come in the past eight months, but realizes she'd still give up her life for the people she loves, saying, quote, I would stand before the gods and beg them to send me to wherever his soul rested. And this was interesting phrasing, potentially foreshadowing. Rachel: Well, it certainly wouldn't be the first time she found her loved ones in the other world, so Kate: Very true. After the funeral, Ary goes back to Elias' room and he asks about the ring she still keeps around her neck. So to distract him and avoid answering, Ary lets him kiss her again. And the descriptions here honestly are so not sexy. She's desperate to feel safe and warm, so she quote, resigned herself to his touch. It feels, quote, absent-mindedly good as long as she doesn't think about who she's with. She has to force herself to return his kiss. She feels sadness and guilt. She accidentally bites him defensively and is surprised when he likes it. Which noted. Rachel: Unsurprising, honestly. Kate: When she feels When she feels his erection against her, she fully dissociates and can't stop herself from comparing it to the night she shared with Gavin in Brinnea. And finally, she asks him to slow down and that they don't go any further. Rachel: Yeah, she's not into it. It's just obvious that she's still in love with Gavin and she's not ready to move on. And not to mention, she still hasn't fully forgiven Eli, which she does think about in this scene as well. Kate: Yeah, yeah. So being in Ary's head for this scene, it was not sexy. Even though we got an erect Eli. Eli asks about Gavin again and she shuts him down, telling him never to ask her about him again. she's putting up a very firm boundary. If we are moving forward with this, you cannot ask me about Gavin. When Ary goes back to her room, Simeon is there waiting for her. She doesn't have patience for him, so she demands to know what he wants. She can see him struggling to respond, and suddenly something, quote, otherworldly and sinister comes over his features, but goes away again with a shudder. Ary describes him here as being possessed. But by who? Maybe the ominous she that Ary has been dealing with? Certainly, it's whoever he made his deal with for power. But currently I'm unsure if that's the same being. Rachel: This line is interesting, since as we see, Simeon doesn't know what she can hear. I assume this was the she sort of seeing and hearing through his eyes. So in that way, the term possession could be very literal. You know, it's the same way that like Kate: Mm. Rachel: there's that bond that Molochai has with Gavin and maybe Simeon has with the she. That being said, it it could also just be his reaction to attempting to push back against this entity. that's just what his face looks like when he's trying to fight back. So clearly something happens here. Yeah, clearly something Kate: That's his concentration phase. Rachel: happens here, Kate: Yeah. Yeah. But the the otherworldly and sinister part, like this is a dark god Rachel: yeah, for sure. Kate: that he made a bargain with Ary asks him about where he was when he wasn't in the caves and whether he's been going to the continent across the Brinnean Sea. Simeon again struggles to respond, then grabs a pen and paper, scribbling a note before the pen is yanked out of his grasp by an invisible force. The note says, quote, I fear she can hear everything I say. We never should have made that deal. Before Ary can ask anything else, he runs out of the room. Rachel: So finally we get confirmation that Simeon is under some sort of curse where he literally can't answer Ary's questions. And we also get confirmation that yes, he made a deal with this entity. Kate: Yeah. Like this is there's no ifs, ands or buts about it. He is possessed and being controlled by this entity, at least in part, right? This entity is Rachel: He's being controlled. He's he he is being controlled by her. I d I don't know that I would go so far as to say he's constantly possessed. I don't I don't think we have full evidence of that yet. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but we can definitely say that he Kate: Yeah, I don't know about constantly. But certainly whenever Rachel: has he made some kind of a fairy deal. Kate: Yep. Ary considers everything Molochai had told her, everything she's been experiencing in her nightmares, and everything she's been reading in her books. A light bulb finally goes off in her mind as she remembers the 13 blank pages in the book of the Selvaren. Simeon isn't just keeping things from her, he also physically can't tell her everything. And who would be powerful enough to bind a sorcerer in that kind of deal? Likely, only a god. And finally, Ary has caught up to what we've assumed since book one. Rachel: What's interesting here is that I always assumed Ary was the thirteenth god, but this section of the book sort of makes it seem like the mysterious she is the thirteenth god. So I think I I I can't wait for the Nocturne because I hope hopefully we'll get a lot more answers there. Kate: That's true. And I know we've been going back and forth about whether Ary is a god or a demigod. And maybe this has us leaning more towards that she's a demigod, like a descendant of the gods. Then it's Ary's wedding day, and she's obviously not excited, but she's determined to do what she thinks is right for her people. Rachel: And of course, a moment for the fashion. Ary is dressed in a silk and satin long-tailed dress with lace cap sleeves and a sheer veil, and her hair is pinned up in elegant curls. So of course, she just looks beautiful. But it makes Ary think about her wedding to Gavin, and she wonders what she wore. And she imagines that she wore a long, comfortable cotton dress, her hair down, and a crown. of white flowers, which what's on the cover of the Nocturne? Kate: What kind of flowers? Rachel: I mean there's two types of white flowers on the Nocturne. So I am like a hundred percent convinced that we are getting their wedding scene and their wedding night in the Nocturne. Kate: I really hope so. Simeon walks Ary down the aisle and she tells him she's not doing this for him. In fact, she says if he didn't have information that she needed, she'd have killed him already, and might still do so once she learns what she needs to know. And I was so glad to hear this. Like I would love to see him die. Rachel: Mm-hmm. She also says that once she finds out what he did with her child, she'll bring him back just to kill him again. Kate: You love to see it. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Ary's heart, which she says was buried with Gavin, isn't in the ceremony, but she's going through the motions when a sudden calm comes over her, and just then a commotion starts at the back of the hall. Rachel: Ary also feels heat burning in her core and throbbing in her chest, the same place that has been cold and empty and aching since Gavin's death. It sure sounds like a certain Helios's fire has returned. Kate: Simeon rushes up, telling her the wards are down, claiming Molochai is here. And then Shadows, described as vicious and soul devouring, enter the hall, followed by not Molochai, but Gavin Smyth back from the dead. And I'm convinced that soul devouring is 100% a literal description. but at this point, this huge reveal. Were you surprised by Gavin's return? Rachel: At this point, yes, I was. I cheered and screamed, and that seems to be the reaction of all of Bookstagram and BookTok And while I didn't want Gavin to be forever dead, and I was like, this can't be real, especially since we never saw his death on s on page. I've read enough of the big series, the big romantasy series. I'm blinking for the people who know. To know that the first love is often not end game and certainly isn't safe. Kate: I will say I wasn't that surprised just because I was never fully convinced that he was dead to begin with or fully dead, but I really enjoyed the drama of it. I mean who doesn't like an interrupted wedding trope? Rachel: I think you're the only one that wasn't as surprised because I literally have seen so many reactions and it seems to be like the resounding Hell yes, Daddy's home, like giant relief. People are throwing their books and screaming. Kate: Yeah. again, I'm I it's not like I had pinpointed like exactly when he would come back, right? I just wasn't surprised that he was back because I was Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: still convinced that no body, no crime, like he was going to come back. But again, I th this reveal, the timing of it and everything, the drama of it, I love it. Rachel: Mm-hmm. It's epic Kate: And Ary, for one, is shocked. And she's overcome by an immense need to go to him. She uses her powers to block soldiers from getting near him, but Shera yells at her in her head with an quote otherworldly authority that stops her in her tracks. Shera tells her that if she goes to him and people know the truth, they will destroy him. So Ary needs to stop and think before she acts. So Shera is connected to the gods then? Because that's the only thing otherworldly, I feel like, could mean here. And now I'm wondering if Umbras went extinct around the same time the 13th god was erased from the history books, or you know, where that timing lines up. Rachel: Yeah, and it's not just described as otherworldly. We also get this line, quote, Her voice hit me with the force of all twelve gods. So I agree she is definitely connected to the gods in some way. I don't know, maybe the pet of the gods. Kate: Okay, I would love to see how Shera would react to being called a pet. Rachel: That's that's fair. But I just don't I don't think that she is a god. That's why I'm like, mm, I don't I'm not sure. Kate: Yeah, no, she's she's connected in some way. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: but 'cause the knowledge that she has, the otherworldly authority, she's yeah, the Umbras have so many secrets that we need to know. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Elias comes to Ary's side, sword in hand, to defend her, angering Gavin and his shadows. Gavin gives the epic last line of the book. I fucking object. Rachel: Woo! Yes! This was such an epic ending. I literally can't wait for book three. Those epic three lines, literally Chef's kiss Kate: I know. I know. And thank God he's back because I just did not want more of this Eli, Ary, just the the icky tension between them. Ary can now just be like, well, I don't even have to pretend anymore. Or maybe she will, but it's gonna feel different, you know, because she's going to that Gavin is there and she can love. him and not feel guilt that she doesn't love Eli. Rachel: Yeah, no, it sets up a totally different story. This is obviously, we're leaving that in book two, and we have a whole different conflict for book three. So let's count down our tropes. Kate: Yeah, so excited. Rachel: We have Touch her and Die, FMC's Secret Scheme, Dramatic Diplomatic Mission, A Missing Slash Secret Child, A Mad Scientist and His Lair, A Proposal, An Arranged Marriage Slash. political alliance marriage, a resurrection, and a wedding objection. A dramatic wedding objection. Kate: Yes, which I love because that's such a a classic trope. And this is the first one that I think we've gotten in the books that we've covered. And I'm so excited. Rachel: Yeah, one of the most popular romantasy books has a pretty big wedding objection, but I think this one rivals that one. Alright, so counting down our theories, and I don't know that I have all of the ones we discuss in this episode because we really went off the rails, but a few that we covered. Molochai is torturing people to fulfill his magical bargain. Gavin and Ary are soulmates who can speak into one another's minds. And as we see, Ary begged Gavin to stop her wedding. So he did. Umbras are maybe not the pets, but somehow related. The gods in some way, connected to the gods in some way. Lou is the baby, and someone killed or captured Nyxar. Thank you for joining us for our deep dive into the Incendiary by LJ Claren. If you can't get enough of the Selvaren series, be sure to catch up on our coverage of The Silversmith and two interviews with LJ Claren, one with and one without spoilers for The Incendiary. And be sure to join us for our upcoming episodes about Romantasy BookCon, A Court of Splintered Harmony, Rose in Chains, and Threshing Day. Kate: And if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to drop us a comment or review. We love hearing your theories and reactions. Rachel: See you next week. Kate: Bye.