Latest / Auto Collabs / From 1997 ‘Til Now with Doug Miller

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From 1997 ‘Til Now with Doug Miller · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  Well, today we get to talk to CARS' newly named president [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs... and chief commercial officer. I think we need to ask him what that actually means.
• 0:15
  It's one of those, like, C-suite roles that, eh, maybe could be a little confusing.
• 0:20
  But Doug Miller's got experience from all across retail, which is why I can't wait to have a conversation, because that is the experience that we're always trying to get into automotive, to say, "Broaden our perspective.
• 0:33
  Show us what it's like in the rest of the world, and maybe help us feel a little bit better about where we are," you know?
• 0:39
  You know, sometimes you can get so much in the weeds in something that you, you forget that other people do something similar. I s- I, I hear this all the time.
• 0:48
  It's like, you know, "We're the only platform that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, "So there's these other guys." Well, that you know of. We hate to break it to you. I guess. The only platform- Yeah...
• 0:57
  that you know of. [laughs] And, and I think that that happens enough. "We're the only c- we're the only business that's a people business," you know?
• 1:05
  And it's like, so there's other people businesses out there doing people business thing.
• 1:09
  And so I think that perspective that we get from people that have been both, i- like, I love the perspective, 'cause you looked at his LinkedIn.
• 1:17
  It's like, you go, you go from cars.com to outside of the industry to back inside of the industry, and I think that, that mode of perspective, because a lot of people are in the industry, stay in the industry, and so we forget to kind of keep our eyes up on what's going on.
• 1:32
  And, uh, so I'm gonna- I think I'm gonna appreciate this perspective a little bit. I couldn't agree more. I love that you brought up LinkedIn, 'cause I feel like I'm the one that's bringing up LinkedIn a lot.
• 1:41
  And like, "I was just on their LinkedIn profile." But there- there's kind of two sides to the car business. There's those of us who say, and kind of tongue in cheek, say we fell into this business.
• 1:53
  And then there's guys, when you're going through, like you said, y- y- you look at his LinkedIn history and it's like, General Manager, Senior Director, Global Vice President, Chief Revenue Officer, Chief Executive Officer.
• 2:04
  You're like- Oh... like, you can see this man climbing to the top floor of, of corporate America. And he looks at it as, "Automotive was the natural progression in my career chain.
• 2:15
  There's problems there that I wanna solve," which I certainly hope we can get into some of that. I mean, just such a unique perspective. We hope you enjoy this conversation with Doug Miller, President of cars.com.
• 2:27
  [upbeat music] Doug, thank you so much for joining us today. Um, it's been a long time since we had, have had a chance to have a conversation, and all of us have never been in the same room or virtual room together.
• 2:42
  So, uh, thanks for carving out some time for us today. It's, it's great to be here, Paul, and I, like I said, I'm humbled to, to be here with you guys. It's, uh, it's just gonna be a lot of fun.
• 2:53
  Yeah, we agree, and we're looking forward to it. We, we promise that. [laughs] That's the one thing we can say. You may not learn a dang thing, but hopefully you'll probably laugh.
• 3:02
  Um- And, a- a- and, and the hat collection, I, I am gonna work on my hat collection for next time, so w- I'll bring it a little stronger than just the Kraken hat. [laughs] We'll send you a few. That's fair.
• 3:12
  We'll send you a few here. Yeah, yeah. Which one do you want? [laughs] Yes. So, um- I like it...
• 3:15
  first of all, l- we haven't started an episode talking about someone's title, but you are President and Chief Commercial Officer at CARS. Um, explain to us what a Chief Commercial Officer is. Yeah.
• 3:26
  Well, I think about the whole business, right? I think about everything that we're doing, the two sides of the marketplace, on the CARS side, all of the solutions that we're bringing.
• 3:35
  There are a whole lot of dimensions to what we're doing in building the CARS platform across media, marketing, uh, reputation, solutions, and, and, uh, and the marketplace.
• 3:46
  So, w- you know, I think about all those things. I think about our consumers, and I think about how we're gonna match them up with, uh, with dealers and OEMs out there.
• 3:54
  Uh, and lucky enough, I work with some really great people who make that all happen. So, um, okay. So you have experience outside of automotive, which we think is a very valuable thing.
• 4:07
  But can you talk to or tell us about maybe some of that experience? But also we're very curious, when did you first, like, slide your way into the automotive space at all, right? Like, I don't know if there was- Yeah...
• 4:18
  experience before CARS or not. If- Yeah... we'd like to know when people first woke up and realized like, "Oh, I guess I'm in the automotive industry now." Uh, in the automotive space.
• 4:27
  Yeah, and, uh, my, uh, my story's pretty good there. I, I was there, I have street cred, original founder street cred with cars.com.
• 4:35
  I was there in 1997 with Alex, getting it off the ground, going into the original affiliates when it was an affiliate model, going through newspapers.
• 4:44
  We were building that business, uh, in partnership with Classified Ventures, the cars.com brand.
• 4:49
  And it was, it, it was, these days I give him a hard time, 'cause these days we don't even count 1997 as part of the history. Everything in the history says that it started in 1998.
• 5:02
  Is that an intentional effort to cut you out? I don't know. Again, I feel like they're leaving me out of it somehow.
• 5:08
  [laughs] But I was there really early, very early, and then went off and was in the entertainment space with Ticketmaster and with, uh, in the travel space with Expedia and did some other things in the, in local with City Search and, and, um, and with Living Social and just had been in two-sided marketplaces a lot of my career and wanted to come back to get into automotive.
• 5:29
  And it is a great space.
• 5:30
  I, there, there are very few spaces like this where, uh, you know, I've spent a lot of time, as I said, at the intersection of local and e-commerce and, and, uh, and digital, and here are these incredibly savvy, local, entrepreneurial, community-oriented, uh, uh, just drivers of the local economy, and I get to work with them and I, I, I like that a lot.
• 5:58
  So I'm excited to be back there, back in the automotive space. Uh, but it started in 1997That's awesome. You know, uh, actually, I wanna key in on this thing that you've said a couple times now.
• 6:08
  It's two-sided marketpla- two-sided marketplace, and I don't think that's something that we talk a lot about in the industry. Um, you know, the... I, I, I'll say this.
• 6:16
  As an industry, there's been a lot of push over the last five years against this, like, th- what, what- [clears throat]... in our industry we call third-party vendor, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 6:26
  And it's like, "Oh, nobody wants to do that. Go direct to where the inventory is, you know, d- or direct to consumer from the agent. We don't need other places to put..."
• 6:35
  And what I think that sometimes we don't recognize, and what you just highlighted, is that as consumers even, just if, if we consider ourself a consumer or customer, we deal in two-sided marketplaces quite often.
• 6:49
  And actually, there are probably way more two-sided marketplaces outside of auto than there even are inside of auto.
• 6:57
  So I'd like to kinda hear your perspective on, like, the n- not just the inside of auto two-sided marketplace, and maybe, uh, like explain what you mean by that a little bit. Sure.
• 7:06
  But also, like, the, the, the more global, the more na- or national, r- like, attachment or responsibility of a two-sided marketplace in our economy. Yeah, I mean, I...
• 7:19
  Maybe the easiest way to get there, because we are all so steeped in being in automotive right now and all the, the lingo that's in it, is to jump over to something like the travel space.
• 7:29
  When it was, when I was with Expedia for seven years, we, we, uh, we were matching consumers who were trying to discover where they wanted to go travel, and we all do it.
• 7:40
  And, and, and sometimes that starts with, like, "Oh, I love Hyatt and I'm gonna go to the Hyatt website," and I'm... And that's fine.
• 7:49
  And sometimes it just starts with, "I, I, I need to go figure out what destination I wanna go to, or whether I want a beach holiday or a city break, or wh-" And, and marketplaces play that role. They, they're...
• 8:02
  75% of the consumers who show up at Cars.com don't know what car make, model. They might have some vague idea, "I, I want an SUV," but they, they, they don't come in really knowing make and model when they arrive.
• 8:16
  And we help them to discover what's possible in used and in new and, and we even now help them to sell their car and find out what their, their car is worth.
• 8:25
  So there, there's so many possibilities when you come into that space, and then match them up.
• 8:30
  I, I think most importantly for us, it is, it is about connecting them with the experts locally, the people that can help them to, uh, to get that car or to sell that car.
• 8:43
  This is something, Doug, uh, I think is really interesting because, you know, especially as we go around the industry, there's a lot of talk about the funnel, the marketing funnel, the funnel that the consumer moves through.
• 8:55
  Um, I like the way that you articulated this in drawing that similarity, acknowledging that, no, even in a 2022 world and beyond with all of the absolutes, people are still conducting research in a certain way, and you have the data- Right...
• 9:10
  points to validate that. Uh, uh, especially in a 22, 2022 world [laughs] as, uh, new models are coming in, E, uh, EVs are becoming relevant.
• 9:18
  The amount of consumer education that we're all going to have to get out there, whether
• 9:24
  it is the OEM or the dealer or the marketplaces and everyone in the industry, the amount of education that we're gonna have to get out there to help people to come up the learning curve on EVs is massive.
• 9:34
  We were just sitting with one of the leading OEMs, uh, the other day [laughs] and they were describing to us how they have people driving off the lot, and then they, they have no idea where a charging station is.
• 9:50
  [laughs] And they run, they run out of juice and they're getting towed. Like, there's a massive amount of education that has to go on and, uh, at every level and every player.
• 10:01
  And we, we think we play a really critical role in helping. With all of our content, uh, you know, we really invest a lot in content.
• 10:09
  Uh, uh, put out a, a great guide for the EV curious and have, had a lot of engagement, uh, both from the consumer side as well as from the, from the dealer community on that.
• 10:19
  And we're gonna continue to invest there to help to educate the consumer on EVs and, and bring them through.
• 10:25
  And, and, and in recent months and quarters with the gas prices being what they are, we've seen a lot of engagement with that content. What can dealers learn, particularly, uh, you know...
• 10:37
  Because I think that there's, uh, obviously a place for consumers to get education and maintain shopping and trade behaviors both at the third party or, or retail marketplace level as well as the dealer level.
• 10:53
  What can dealerships maybe learn about their own efforts for education or shopping behaviors from watching a company like Cars.com that has all the resources and all the data points and all of, all of that that you're looking at?
• 11:09
  What, uh, how can, how can dealers kinda navigate the waters of this education by learning from a company like Cars.com to balance the, the education pathways for a dealer? Yeah.
• 11:20
  I, you know, one of the things that I think, um, I am both really pleased with, Kyle, and, and kind of pissed off about or I don't understand is, uh, why, uh, why they don't actually, uh, look at the
• 11:39
  ridiculous amount of investment that we, we make and, and then learn from it or, or model off of it or understand that they can almost arbitrage it, right?
• 11:49
  C- 'cause we, when we go and we say, "Look, we have already invested in bringing ev- all the consumers who are in market, real people in market ready to buy a car, and we have a marketing solution," like fuel and market video where they can go ahead and make sure that when their first dollar that they spend on marketing is in front of a consumer who's actually in market right now-Ready to buy a car.
• 12:15
  They still go off and buy some modeled audience somewhere, or they, they, they spend dollar one on some... The 99% of consumers who are not in market for a car, and it, it makes me bonkers.
• 12:28
  But it is something [laughs] that I think- [laughs]... uh, dealers can learn, that, uh, we, you know, the platform is available for them, uh, in, in that way.
• 12:37
  The other, you know, the other thing that, uh, I think with, you look at the Dealer Inspire side of the business and the work that we've done in, in, um,
• 12:46
  in really thinking through scientifically, like, what is the, the best flow and experience that we can create for a dealership?
• 12:53
  But also then, um, make it pers- highly personalized and customized for that particular dealer. Uh, I, you know, lots to learn on, on all sides.
• 13:02
  We're, we're, we're running 5,600, I think n- nearly 6,000 dealer websites at this point, and this massive consumer, uh, uh, marketplace with 25 million uniques.
• 13:12
  Leader in the space now, uh, in, in unique visitors each month.
• 13:17
  And, uh, we're really proud of that, and there's a, there's a lot, uh, a lot of innovation that goes on there, and a lot to, that dealers can pi- take from that. You know, what, what you just said about, you know, it...
• 13:27
  And it should, it should piss you off, right? It should. You know the inside, and you know the value that you're working hard to bring.
• 13:33
  And the fact that you're that passionate about your product I think is, is amazing, and, uh, may, may everyone else have such a passion for their produ- product as well.
• 13:42
  What do you think is- It's making me go gray, Paul. But, you know. [laughs] It's okay. It's okay. W- we'll blame it... [laughs] What... There's definitely something under the surface, right, that leads people.
• 13:54
  Because you have the data, right? You have the proof. Um, you have the unique audience. You're doing the work on the back end to actually create organic content that drives the traffic organically, right?
• 14:07
  You're doing- Yeah...
• 14:07
  all these things that, uh, any marketer inside or outside, any content creator inside or outside automotive, even, like, it'll validate across all outside automotive platforms saying, like, "Well, that's actually how you build valuable traffic to your site.
• 14:21
  You do all those things," right? There are best practices outside automotive. Um, there must be some level of kind of distrust that's built up in the dealer mindset that is, "No..."
• 14:35
  'Cause you know when people hand you something free, right? You know, I'm always like, "Nah, I don't want that." "No, it's free." "Yeah, sure." [laughs] Right? "No, no, no, it really is. It's really..."
• 14:43
  "No, I don't want that." Right? Just something about it, this distrust that comes up- Yeah... with that. Um, where do you think the root of that is? Like, I'm just curious- Yeah... on your thoughts of that.
• 14:53
  Because it's there, right? And it's the reason that people aren't- It-... leaning in. Yeah. Uh, we're lucky that we work with the many thousands of partners that do lean in, right? I gotta say that- Sure... first.
• 15:03
  Like, we have, we have some great partners that do lean in and have, uh, across the, the, whether it- Right, lots of them. [laughs]...
• 15:09
  it's the Reputation side, the, the Dealer Inspire side, the de- Cars marketplace side. They, they're leaning into the, the entire platform, and they're really powering their business off of it, which is great to see. Um,
• 15:22
  I, you know, I, I, I wish that I knew the answer to your question. I, like- [laughs] I think we endeavor every day.
• 15:29
  We work really hard every day with hundreds of people who are on the street working in the local communities side by side with those dealers and trying to help them to understand that we're, you know, we're their partner to help future-proof their business.
• 15:45
  And, uh, it, you know, I'd like to break through with, with some that, uh, we haven't yet. But I think we're lucky that we've got a lot of partners that, that do lean in. Nice.
• 15:57
  And, and sometimes it's gonna take that, right? Like, you guys know this well. It's that they listen to one another.
• 16:05
  And so we, uh, we work really hard on, on, uh, making it work for those partners, and, and from that our Reputation will, will build and, and grow. I'd like to see more commitment.
• 16:18
  Uh, again, you know, the, uh, the other thing that will make, makes me a little bonkers, and ma- it's hard to understand, is it's so efficient. It is so efficient the connections that are created through the marketplace.
• 16:33
  Now we're, with, uh, with Credit IQ as an example, we're, we're introducing right now, right now we're introducing this instant finance capability on VDPs.
• 16:41
  And this is also an, a something that is a page taken and learned from another, uh, world, right? At Expedia, we never sat around and wasted time talking about attribution. If you- Hmm. Hmm. We...
• 16:54
  At Expedia, we put heads in beds, we put butts in seats. The airlines understood exactly how many tickets we booked or how many hotel rooms. The hoteliers understood that.
• 17:05
  We, we would debate and, and, and go tooth and nail on what are the commercial terms there, but we wouldn't, we wouldn't debate attribution.
• 17:12
  Uh, it makes me nuts that we spend so much time in this space, so much time in this industry debating attribution and trying to figure out the sort of games that are going on of, uh, who, you know, who should get the credit.
• 17:25
  And so when we introduce a program like Instant Finance, which is built on the Credit IQ platform, which is a recent acquisition, it allows us to connect a consumer directly into one of the dealer's loan products.
• 17:39
  Right off the VDP on Cars.com, or right off the VDP on the dealer's website, it just connects them right into one of the dealer's loan products, and then you just get out of that debate.
• 17:48
  It, uh, like we, we created this loan together. Like, the, there isn't a debate about where that originated.
• 17:55
  And, and I'm looking forward to more and more of that type of future, where we just wa- stop wasting time on questions of attribution. Is the reason why the questions of attribution weren't there was because things
• 18:09
  were connected enough to appropriately attribute? Is that what you're saying? Or that it's- We're not, we're not. Yeah. Like, it, you know- Yeah...
• 18:16
  gosh, the, the- Like, they were with, with Expedia, but they're not- They were... in automotive- That's right. That's right... is what you're saying. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:22
  Well, one is an e-commerce model, and the other is a connection model, and I think the, the, the Cars.com marketplace is increasingly-Moving toward helping the dealer with the sale of that car and, and getting, getting, getting consumers into a car.
• 18:40
  And, and that's where we wanna help clear up that path attribution, make sure that it's not fuzzy anymore. What kind of- Also, also helping consumer to sell a car, right? With our recent acquisition of AccuTrade.
• 18:55
  I think that- Yeah... that's another place where there, it just won't be fuzzy. It's not [laughs]...
• 19:00
  It's, there's, there is very little question of h- how a consumer came through, uh, to say, "Hey, I'd, I'd like to get a price on my car" and then, uh, they go through this great process which is supported by the AccuTrade appraisal tool and the OBD scanner that, that syncs with that software.
• 19:18
  And they get a, a, a penny-perfect offer, and then they're out the door. Uh, you know, it- That's really it... it, well, there won't be a lot of attribution discussion there.
• 19:26
  It's a totally different layer of a two, two-sided marketplace. Yeah. Right? Yeah, that's a factor, yeah. 'Cause now it's flowing in both ways. Yeah. Right?
• 19:33
  I guess that'd be like if Expedia got into, like, you know, Airbnb type. I don't know if they are or not. Right? They are. All of a s- Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. But, yeah, that's exactly right. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:42
  Well, and I, uh, I think it's ex- it's an exciting moment. I, uh, w- we'll, we'll check back in with one another in a couple years. Uh, we'll be sitting here. But I think it's quite possible that, uh, when
• 19:58
  our network of dealers and dealer partners are talking about the value they get from the cars platform, more and more of them are gonna be talking about their ability to acquire v- inventory, their ability to appraise cars effectively, their ability to take cost out of the, the, the process of appraising cars or buying a car a- at, at, at a bad price.
• 20:19
  Like, to- [laughs]... to be able to check and make sure that there's not a, a, a hidden flaw in that, in, in what's going on with the, uh, mechanical history of that car.
• 20:28
  They can see that in real time and make those decisions. So I, I do think in a few years' time it, we may be sitting here talking about the value of the platform has balanced- Mm-hmm...
• 20:37
  into not only a discussion of, uh, of helping them to sell cars, but also helping them to acquire. And getting out of the auction. Yeah. Michael, you had a question. I cut you off. Good, yes.
• 20:51
  No, I, I think part of it was answered, so, uh, I know my role. I'm just gonna sit here and shut up. No, I'm kidding. [laughs] You look good. Yeah. [laughs] You, you're looking mighty, not mighty DAPA doing it.
• 21:02
  [laughs] Oh, shucks, now I'm blushing. [laughs] Um, I think about the early days.
• 21:07
  I'm, I'm really intrigued listening to some of the parallels that you're drawing between an e-com model like Expedia and then, of course, the model that we have, the current ecosystem. Was there ever...
• 21:18
  A- and I don't know the history, but w- was there ever a moment in time where Expedia had to jump through hoops to try and connect all of the puzzle pieces similar to- Yes...
• 21:30
  what I think we're going through in automotive right now- It, it was-... where nothing talks properly and... It started with a fax machine, right? Like, like, then, then, like, Expedia would take an order and fax it
• 21:42
  to- [laughs] Wow... the, the, the front desk- Okay... of the hotel. Like, there was no connection. [laughs] There, it was all, uh, it was all s- you know, like I worked at- Manual labor in between the two points, right?
• 21:54
  Wow. Yeah. That kind of blows my mind, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. Like- Yeah. [laughs] Which, but it also kind of gives me hope for our industry. Right? You're like- Oh, yeah. It does...
• 22:01
  "Hey, we aren't starting at fax machines." Right. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, we're not starting there.
• 22:05
  [laughs] But the, you know, like, and, and it then slowly built into some, some kind of computer connections and then some even deeper ways of connecting into existing hotel systems.
• 22:18
  But everything just had to kind of grow up over time in order for that connectivity to happen. Uh, but it did start with fax machine. Even, like, the ticketing business, I'll give you that parallel, too.
• 22:30
  Uh, I was there when 100% of the business was not online. Like, we, we were just bringing the business at Ticketmaster online. It was entirely a retail, right?
• 22:42
  Remember when we all stood in line and camped out- I sure do Yeah, for tickets... to box office view. That's right, yes.
• 22:47
  It was, like, retail, and it was phones and the founder at Ticketmaster, the original founder at Tick- Ticketmaster said, like, "Over my dead body this business goes to that crazy internet thing."
• 22:56
  [laughs] And Barry Diller had the foresight to say, "Okay, I'm gonna take this thing and we're gonna move it to the internet," and within four years we went from 0% of the in, in- inventory being sold online to 50% of it, and now it's damn near 100.
• 23:10
  That was in that period that we also invented the, or created and launched the, uh, the print-at-home ticket and some other things that really transformed the way we all consume that, in that space. Now,
• 23:22
  like, that innovation happened really fast and explosively. Here we, [laughs] here we are 22 years later, and I, I think that digital transformation of automotive is still going on. But for all the right reasons, right?
• 23:35
  It, automotive is by its nature... Like, the, the camping out experience was bad for the consumer, and the print-at-home ticket is better.
• 23:47
  The, the dealership experience for the consumer matched together with digital is the future.
• 23:54
  It is that hybrid of being able to do things digitally, then move locally and actually physically be with this car, get the service that you want on that car, test drive that car, have that relationship with your local dealer.
• 24:08
  But also then be able to move seamlessly back digital. That, that's the platform that Cars is investing in to help dealers to get to. Uh, and, and, and that is also I think why automotive is-...
• 24:22
  gonna take a little longer, 'cause it, it is by definition more hybrid than that ticketing experience. Yeah, for sure.
• 24:30
  Well, Doug, I, we've just, I feel like we've been across the map, but connecting your experience to what, uh, Cars.com is working to do for the automotive industry has been really insightful for me.
• 24:41
  And appreciate you coming on Auto Collabs. Um, thank you so much for joining us in a couple, uh, short weeks at, uh, So2Con and, and being one of the speakers there. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.
• 24:52
  That's gonna be a ton of fun. So, uh, on behel- on behalf of myself, Paul, and, and Michael, really appreciate you being on today. Thank you all. And I, like I said, I'm gonna work on my hat.
• 25:02
  Sporting some good hats for, uh, maybe, maybe in two weeks time I'll get that right. [laughs] I got an idea, guys. We should do this podcast over fax machine.
• 25:17
  [laughs] That would take a long time. I think it would. Let's record it on Walkmans- [laughs]... and then what we'll do- Oh, man... is I'll ship you the first sentence, you ship me the second sentence. Speak of 1997.
• 25:32
  Sound good? Hey, I remember 1997 very distinctly. It's the year I graduated high school. Wow. You know, like- I was a Y2K baby. Were you? You know what the hit- Yep... single was in 1997?
• 25:44
  Semi-Charmed Life by Third Eye Blind. Oh. I was gonna say Barbie Girl [laughs] by Aqua. That, that might- [laughs] Oh, no. I don't know. I don't know.
• 25:56
  Well, and, and like, if you think about 1997, which i- he was telling us, obviously it started with, uh, papers and affiliate marketing and classifieds, which was, which was what it was, really was.
• 26:08
  But then Cars.com, right, 1998, which was when they kind of officially went into the online marketplace side of stuff, like, that's super early adoptive. Oh. Y- you don't even have- Beyond...
• 26:21
  you don't even have dealer... Like, I would say 90% of dealers haven't even adopted some sort, uh, some form of website past, like, maybe landing page.
• 26:30
  I mean, it's still early 2000s that, that dealers are getting into websites at this point.
• 26:35
  So, you know, for, for a company like that to continually be leading the charge on, on adoption of newer technologies, you know, they acquired Dealer Inspire, which was definitely, especially in the mid-teens, just the for- the front runner on innovative website technology.
• 26:53
  They acquire a, a, a credit IQ that has already been powering, um, some of the world's leading, uh, fintech providers from a vehicle perspective. Right.
• 27:04
  You know, they acquire AccuTrade, a very new and innovative approach to, to trade cycle management.
• 27:11
  And so, you know, I, I, I appreciate that, like, they haven't given up that initial entrepreneurial spirit in looking for innovative ways to conduct business.
• 27:21
  Jeez, no, it seems like it is like, it is charging forward like nobody's business. It seems like it's kind of got a little renewal resurgence. Um, you know, he did tell a story after our interview- [laughs]...
• 27:33
  that was fantastic- [laughs]... about his Ticketmaster days. Oh, please. And I have to share it. They sold the very first ticket, like, online through Ticketmaster, and all the executives are gathered in a room.
• 27:44
  So Ticketmaster, obviously, massive influential company in pop culture and commerce.
• 27:49
  Guy buys a ticket to a Mar- to a Seattle Mariners baseball game, and they're all gathered around, and the transaction comes through, and they're like, "We should call the guy."
• 27:57
  And so all the executives, they call the guy- [laughs]... and literally he's like, "The reason I bought it online is so I don't have to talk to," frrt, frrt, "jerks like you." [laughs] And then he hung up.
• 28:08
  So- Unbelievable... I mean, look, it, I think it's a validation that the move that they made was for all the right reasons. And their first review from that guy, the first review was from that guy- [laughs]...
• 28:18
  being like, "I will never buy another ticket from Ticketmaster again because- Online... I didn't wanna talk to anybody." They overpromised- And then they-... and under-delivered. [laughs] First shot.
• 28:26
  And then they called me. Unbelievable. "They did the one thing I didn't want them to do." [laughs] Unbelievable.
• 28:30
  Oh, well, well, look, we, look, we really hope that you enjoyed the conversation with Doug Miller as much as we did, and even our jokes and jabs afterwards and 1997 top hits. Uh, for myself, Kyle Mountsier, Paul J.
• 28:44
  Daly, Michael Cirillo, this has been Auto Collabs. We'll talk to you next time. Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture.
• 28:56
  You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U dot com. If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 29:10
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet? Not yet.