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Make Each Employee a Leader with CEO Shelley Butle · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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It's, Roxanne Derhodge authentically being with Sandsan.
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Today, I have a special guest, a CEO of Doverco, and it's Shelley Butler.
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Shelley is spending, her precious time today to talk about what it is to be, in leadership and
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acting in an authentic way.
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She brings a breath of information to other CEOs that are, looking at their leadership
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style and what kind of things that they may be able to shift or tweak in order to be a truly
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authentic leader.
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Thanks, Shelley, for spending the time with us.
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So, Shelley, just, in your own words, kind of give me a sense about who you are and kinda
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your path for leadership because I think that's that's very key.
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So just kinda tell me where what got you started in leadership?
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Did you just go to school, pursue the traditional kind of, undergrad in business and
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then on into an MBA, or did you have a different path?
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I had a completely different path.
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So my mother, was divorced after 25 years of marriage.
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I found myself, living with a single mom who barely could make ends meet.
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And I had to go to work pretty much right away at as soon as I finished high school, pretty
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much the day I finished high school, she moved to Ontario.
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Once I got back east because I grew up, in Calgary, Alberta for, for my middle school
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years.
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But once I came home, I said that I would never leave again.
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The Maritimes is my blood.
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So I actually moved in with my husband now of 33 years, literally the day after graduation.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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So I have to go to work right away.
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And I, excuse me, I convinced a gentleman I was, I just I wasn't I was eighteen years old,
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and I had convinced a and that opened up a little computer story.
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In those days, this is 1985.
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Mhmm.
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And those days, I was selling Vic and commodore 64s.
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And and, and I convinced him that I knew how to use a computer.
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Okay.
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I didn't.
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You were you were you were able to sell yourself even back then on,
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that was survival.
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That was survival.
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How I wanted why I wanted to work at that computer store.
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I I don't know, but something spoke to me.
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I spent the next 15 years of my life there, and I learned everything I possibly could.
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So my education really was hands on, running a small computer store.
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It was able to bring the computer stored from $250,000 a year to $6,000,000 a year in that
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time frame.
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And we ran a corporate business.
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I was no longer selling commodore 64s and vic twenties.
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I kinda went through the era of you know, the PCs, the Art Attorneys, the Commodore, Amigas,
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you know, so I came up through that era.
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And, of course, having that knowledge had to build a computer, had a manipulated computer,
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if you will.
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I had I had some good core knowledge in hardware.
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And 2000, as you know, the hardware boom was gone.
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The millennial had come.
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It was going to take us all out including every computer.
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I remember them asking me to do a speech.
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It was a company called Maricel, and they'd asked me to do a speech.
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I was really young at the time.
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And I was in St.
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Andrews by the sea, and they had said, can you talk about hardware and what's gonna happen to
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all of our hardware that's supposed to blow up?
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And I can remember addressing the audience even back then and saying, you know, there's
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regional settings, and you can just set your date back to, like, 1989 if you want to, you
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know, Look, your computer doesn't know it's your 2000.
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Right?
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I mean, so, you know, I always had that common sense if you will.
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You know, what they say is just not all that common today.
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But I was always able to really think fast on my speak, and I was always able to stand by a
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decision no matter what kind of decision I made, whether it was hiring staff or buying a
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quarter of a $1,000,000 or a half a $1,000,000 worth of these type of PCs, you know, to sell.
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So I I worked in a lot of different areas in the computer industry, and that just kinda gave
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me my footing.
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Starting at Dovacol though was a whole different ballgame.
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So, the computer hardware era was ended.
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They were one of my clients I remember I went up to see Dion Doucette, and she's one of the
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co founders of biblical software, and she was very pregnant at the time.
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And she said to me, would you like to help run our company, while I'm on maternity leave?
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I had already told my husband that I would spend time, raising our tile that was now, 4.
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And I would spend because I worked really long and hard at this, a computer store that I would
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start spending some time with her and, look at my career later.
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So I came home, and this is, like, literally, like, only a few weeks after I had finished one
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job.
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And, I came home and I said to my husband, no, I'm gonna go back to work.
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This time, I'm gonna go on computer software.
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I have been there now.
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For 19 years.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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So I went in and I and I just took what I knew, and, we only were 5 maybe maybe five on staff
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at that time.
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There wasn't very many of us, a really small location.
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And, know, it was kind of the same way.
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I've always run things.
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Until this was year, 2001, In 2003, Eve Doucette joined our company, and he said
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something to me.
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And it was Shelley.
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We will trust everybody until they're not to be trusted.
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And I really didn't know what that meant.
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You know, I've always dealt with management in a way that, you know, people are going to
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steal.
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You know, you gotta kind of watch, uh-uh, you know, we were dealing with, you know, we were
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in a corporate environment, even though you only saw the people that you were working with,
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it worked 5, 6 at the time, and, we had a dress code in place.
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A lot of policy.
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I have to take a lot of, you know, a lot of, locations in those days, there was, you know,
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procedures and policies.
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This is the way you answer the phone, and there's a little Right.
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Right.
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Answer the phone.
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And and like I say, he said this statement to me.
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People are to be trusted until they're not to be trusted.
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He was working at another location.
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He was a vice president, another location at the time.
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And so I only seen him every Friday.
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He would come in and do these meetings.
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Interesting, though, He he really kind of started to talk to me in a different way than
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any other leader had talked to me.
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And I started really grasping, some a way that we could actually deal with young people coming
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into work in the IT industry a little bit better than we dealt with them before.
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I didn't really know what that meant, at the time, but what it meant for me was, oh, you
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know what?
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We're gonna get rid of a lot of policies, and we're gonna have a lot of input from people
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that come in.
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Let's learn from them as opposed to to putting these policies on them.
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And I'll tell you how that happened.
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We had a policy about answering the phone, as I said, it came into the office one day.
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There was customer who was really frantically looking for support.
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We had a policy that we verify their address and their email address that it was up to date.
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You've been on many of those calls.
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You know?
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And, but he was frantic.
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He needed to get his time in probably to get his pay or to to bill or whatever it was for.
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We do time tracking where.
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And, I didn't follow procedure.
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I immediately made sure that he got to support.
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And he said, why didn't you follow seizure.
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And I said, well, this gentleman really needed to get he really didn't need me at the time to
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check his address and postal code.
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He really needed me to get him to support.
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And Eve just it was like a light bulb went off, and he went, oh my god.
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From this day forward, we're gonna answer the phone with a purpose.
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When is the customer's purpose, not power, not self-service purpose, we can find out other
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ways to get customer's addresses up to date.
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Let's ensure that we answer the phone with a purpose.
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And we started talking like that.
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We get you back to work.
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We answer the phone with a purpose.
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So we started kind of planting those seeds It really never never all of this never really
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came to fruition until years later.
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We planted little seeds here, here and there throughout, but in 2013 was the real big
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awakening at Dobaco.
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Eve Doucette went to Robin Sharma's 1st Titan summit.
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And I tell you it was a game changer for us.
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He came back with ideas, and openings and possibilities that we had never seen before.
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We doubled down.
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I went in 2014.
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But when I went, I wasn't worthy.
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And I realized in that moment that I wasn't worthy, and I was I had a mask on.
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I was not worthy, not to be a leader to go to this professional's Titan summit.
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I wasn't worthy for any of those things.
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He kept saying we're gonna double down.
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So, you know, we're gonna have 2 leaders in there, and we're gonna gather the information,
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and we're gonna double down.
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So we were at the Ritz Carlton.
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Not only did I not feel really to go to this $10,000 conference with these millionaires
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because that's what they advertised it as.
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I was not even worthy enough to get into to be in the Ritz Carlton.
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They met me with champagne at the door, and they said, Mrs.
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Butler, He got me a sweet.
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The more I was given, the less worthy I was.
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Wow.
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To the point where we walked into this conference, and he was on stage larger than
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life.
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The sounds were going off.
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The the music was was unbelievable blaring.
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There was all kinds of, gratitude and intentions and all these things on the screen
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that was just so powerful.
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And I remember Eve looking at me and saying, go to the front.
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We're going to the front.
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So everybody is running them through this conference because we have seats.
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I was like, I've never seen the madness before.
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So, okay.
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Okay.
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You know, I am having a hard time even being at at the Ritz Carlton staying in their hotel.
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Let alone being in this room.
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Robin Sharma comes out, and he says, we're gonna share a truth.
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For the next 4 days, we are all going to share our truth.
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It doesn't matter how much money you make.
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It doesn't matter what you do for a living, but you are going to share your truth on these 4
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days.
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I want you all to stand up, and I want you to whisper your deepest darkest secret into
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people's ears as you walk around for this next few minutes.
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I'm like, what is going on?
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I'm already, like, so out of my element.
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I can't even tell you.
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People stand up and they start to do it.
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In my mind, I say to myself, I will forgive my rapists.
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That's what I said.
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I will forgive my rapist.
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So I did it.
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I stood up, and I I'll never forget her.
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I leaned into her.
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And I said, I will forgive my rapist to which she she responded.
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I will forgive my brother-in-law who killed my sister 2 weeks unlike our is this happening?
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There was a 130 millionaires in the room.
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Yeah.
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And I realized in that moment, every one of us was not feeling worthy.
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Every one of us had so much pain had so much pain that unless we release that, unless we
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lived our truth, we would never we would constantly be walking around with these masks
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on of we're great leaders and, you know, patting ourselves on the back, which is
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ridiculous, right, absolutely ridiculous.
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So, I remember being so overjoyed in that moment and feeling so much strength that I was
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actually able to release I mean, it was to a stranger.
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I would have told you that I Had
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you ever shared that before with anybody?
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I have.
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And that's why I was going to say to you.
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I would have told you that I was over that pain of my sexual abuse.
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That story was no longer with me.
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That story was with me.
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It was with me so strongly.
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So strongly.
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Hey.
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Day 2 of that conference.
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They came around with, like, microphones and ice said something to the effect that I'm gonna
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go back and I'm gonna serve my community.
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I went back and I started to serve my homeless population that lives in our city.
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And, I made sure that I found a way to release my pain in every way I can.
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I now speak.
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I'm now a public speaker for sexual abuse.
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I don't get paid for it, so I'm not a professional speaker, because I do not want to
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get paid for something that I need to give back.
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That is my release.
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That is a way for me to to heal myself, but being and living your truth, not standing
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behind, because I thought everybody could see across my forehead that I was a dirty girl.
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I thought everybody knew that I was sexually abused and probably wasn't worthy.
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The feelings of of the the lack of soft worth though really came into play there.
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And I realized I was, I was £45 overweight at that time.
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I was just just really holding on to some stories that were no longer serving me.
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And, not only did I come back and and help other homeless and serve the homeless and serve
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those people that are sexually abused but I also came back and served our community at
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Dovico to make sure that 1st and foremost, they served themselves.
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We fit that pain.
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You cannot be the creative and innovative self that you need to be in your job every day and
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fulfill yourself with those stories, with those pains.
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So, you know, why revenue was no longer all that important.
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That day, I said I decided you know, and I saw Eve's vision now.
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I saw Eve's vision.
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It wasn't any normal revenue.
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It was taking these people that work with us every day and allow them to just be, you know,
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we're all so much.
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You know, James Roe said that one time, we're also we're humans doing, and we forgot to be
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human beings.
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And we're also worried about the bottom line that we're not paying attention to really what
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needs to be served and what needs to be served as the people in house because they will make
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sure you have revenue when they're feeling great about themselves and great about their
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creativity, they will be the at the the most innovative they could possibly be.
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You cannot lose by making sure the people that surround you are at their very best.
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Oh, you had I mean, your leadership story started, you you just you had some natural
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ability, I would say, to begin with when you started with the hardware store.
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Because you you went in and you worked really hard, clearly, right, to move from to to help
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to build that business.
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And you said you had you single mom upbringing.
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Right?
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So I did like an 11.
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So what's what was there was there a value that you gained from that upbringing that somehow
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led your work ethic or leadership even before, kind of this epiphany with, with the titans.
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Yeah.
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I think it's integrity.
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Okay.
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And it really came into play.
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I always questioned that as well.
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You know, my mother was a strong woman.
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I saw that she was she was able to be that strong woman.
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My 2 sisters are very strong women as well.
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But, really, I think that when I had my own daughter, the first and foremost thing that I
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always seem to talk to her about, even at a very young age playing with others, is you're
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born with integrity and nobody can ever take it away from you.
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But make sure that you have the utmost of integrity and nobody will ever be able to say
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Yeah.
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But, you know, so always show your true authentic self.
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Don't be ashamed of of truly who you are.
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And to this day, you know, I think that I over over harped on that because to this day, the
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child, she's twenty four years old, she's school teacher.
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She's never put on a drop of makeup in her life.
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You know, she lives the most authentic life, ever.
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My daughter is is amazing.
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And, and she always is is truthful as the day is long.
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I mean, she's she takes that integrity with her wherever she goes.
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And I certainly, that is one of my big values, you know, 1st and foremost, one of my biggest
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values is love, integrity, and then health.
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If I were to have, you know, to to let you know of my my three values.
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I, I highly regard all three.
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A lot of people questioned my health integrity.
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But I know that I can't be at my best self, both mentally and physically.
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If I don't hurt myself in the gym every day.
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And and this is my gym, actually.
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I could see that.
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So you're that's your home gym, is it?
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That is my home.
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Awesome.
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Awesome.
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Now, so your your beginning point of leadership was you grew up.
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You, obviously, you had some trauma early.
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But you grew up with a mother that demonstrated hard work.
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Yep.
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And then you learn the element of integrity quite quite early.
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Quite right.
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And it became a living value for you that you you project it out once you kinda got out
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there.
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Absolutely.
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Okay.
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Now so when you got into leadership, Did you know that that's how you were leading that you
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were leading from Integrity?
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Cause I often say that a lot of leaders, they may not be able to define it until they get
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further along long in their career and their career on in their kind of leadership life
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cycle.
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You know, you start off You kinda have a sense that I wanna be a certain way, but you're
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younger to your point, and then you go into kind of the middle part of your leadership kind
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of journey.
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Where you're kind of learning the the brass tax of leadership, and then you're at a point now,
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which it sounds like they call it generative kind of stage of Ericsson's stage of
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leadership, where you're now starting to really give back because you've you've kind of, you
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know, you've you've been in the trenches, you've learned a lot of things And now you, you
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have this sense that, woah, I have this valuable message to give back And it sounds
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like you had Eve coming in along with the opportunity for the titans, but it was always
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there, but something unleashed you that really helped you may maybe made it clear maybe to be
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able to articulate it.
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That surrounding me before.
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We're kind of about power and dictatorship, setting the rules, setting the tone, setting
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the behavior stage, if you will.
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And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, I had this light bulb moment when we were in the
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trenches and we were crying telling everybody our truths that leadership was about service.
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Nothing else.
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Like, like, nothing else that blew my mind.
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I was like, oh my god.
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I didn't have to be powerful.
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I didn't feel good in being powerful.
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Right?
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It took me out of integrity.
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Right?
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I was a little bit I I didn't feel good about that.
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And I really questioned leadership at that point.
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And and, because having power and having having the need to have more power than that guy, was,
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felt really dirty for me.
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So it really just kind of compounded onto my dirty girl issues and my shame and my
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embarrassment and guilt because if I lost at being more powerful, right, I was really in the
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hole, really in the hole.
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I tried to fill other people in the hole with me.
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Did you see what he did?
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Did you right?
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And it really brought me out of integrity.
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But as soon as I found out that I didn't have to be a dictator, I could allow other people to
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make decisions and then deal with the wrong decision.
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If it was the wrong decision, I mean, how bad could it really be, right, and understanding
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that it was really about building other leaders.
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Building other leaders.
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And I swear to god, the man that I saw, oh my gosh, and I'm gonna lose his name.
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He was in the plane crash.
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In the 1972 plane crash, he was one of the rugby players, always my favorite person of all
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time.
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Oh, that awful.
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I will look him up.
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I know him.
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Isn't that awful?
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And and, you know, when they were on the where when they were in those Andes mountains, every
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time the leader died, a new leader emerged.
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Like, that was one of the biggest things that came out of that was every time a leader died,
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a new leader, like in the face of danger, in the face of of the worst case scenario, There
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was always another leader emerged.
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We will die.
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And if we don't make sure that there are leaders at Donoco, great leaders.
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Or if we were not if when we were we are to explode and become multimillionaires each and
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every one of us there at Domino's.
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If we don't have the people that are on the ground today, keeping that culture intact and
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keeping that leadership values that we've put in place at everybody is the owner, and
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everybody makes their own decisions.
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And you carry through your project as you see fit because we trust in you, and we believe
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that you can do the best.
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But if you fail, I got your back.
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Every time I got your back.
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And there's never a question.
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So that in servant leadership, truly, it's shoulder to shoulder.
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Truly in in in that space that you lead from because you're finding, I often say, so my my
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what I talk about is authenticity and leadership.
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Right?
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Like, that when you become authentically connected to your, space internally, what you
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do is you you ignite that light in the person on your team in in whatever level they're at,
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whether they're parallel to you or they're they're frontline.
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They're equally as important, which is what you're saying that Adovico, you you do very,
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very well.
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We lead without titles.
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Doesn't matter what our title is.
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We lead without titles.
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Like, like, lead.
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I, you know, make yourself the CEO.
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I remember one time, sales, my head of sales.
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You know, he takes care of the sales team came and he said, they won't talk to me.
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They will be able to talk to, like, a, c level executive, this particular company.
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Right?
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And I said, well, call me your off the sea.
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Oh, oh, then.
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You know?
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But but it's high level.
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Call yourself the vice president.
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It's ridiculous.
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Right.
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Right.
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You know, so for us, truly, well, for all of us there, really, it's not me.
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True leadership is about service.
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It's about giving back.
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It's about making sure that your current community, this is a community that we are in.
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We are living in.
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And, you know, it's so important.
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Like, in this time that we're going through right now with with COVID 19, I mean, We have a
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policy.
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Like, if you wanna work from home, work from home, you wanna work from Starbucks, work from
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Starbucks.
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Like, I don't really it doesn't really matter where you work.
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Right?
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You have deadlines.
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You gotta meet those deadlines, but today's day and age, if people don't work in bricks and
25:21
mortar, and they work, you know, different hours.
25:23
Right?
25:23
So Right.
25:23
We got in place years ago.
25:26
So for us, with COVID 19, I mean, we never missed a beat.
25:30
We're all set up.
25:31
Everybody's got a computer at home.
25:32
Everybody's got a great care.
25:34
Everybody's gonna, you know, everything they need.
25:36
You have a VPN already set up ages ago.
25:39
Right.
25:39
Right.
25:40
Right.
25:40
But we never miss a beat.
25:42
We, you know, we now do our, we do Monday morning lives.
25:45
Right?
25:46
But now we do so we can see each other.
25:48
We have a Zoom call going on in the back.
25:50
Line.
25:51
Right?
25:51
Right?
25:52
It's important for us.
25:53
We're very, you know, we're a very huggy group.
25:57
You know, we love to circulate good mornings and And, we do things like coffee trains, and
26:03
we have a product called slack.
26:05
And Right.
26:06
Right.
26:06
I use it too with my assistant.
26:07
What's a coffee train?
26:08
Tell me what you mean by coffee.
26:10
Oh, somebody will say, hey.
26:11
Coffee train.
26:12
And before, we used to all go downstairs to Domo.
26:14
We have a cafe at at Dobicoke provided, coffee free coffee for everybody, but instead of
26:20
having a coffee machine in the office, we all decided, you know what, We need to go down two
26:25
flights of stairs every now and again, and we just double co just pays for it.
26:30
Right?
26:30
So however many copies of staff once go down and we got you.
26:34
But you walk downstairs.
26:35
So then it started to be, like, on slack, somebody would say, coffee train.
26:38
So it still happens, but they work space at home and they put themselves on
26:44
I mean, they they do the coffee trade, but they're going to the kitchen to get their
26:47
coffee.
26:48
Oh, yeah.
26:49
I'm going to do a coffee.
26:51
Right.
26:51
What a what an what a nice thing.
26:54
So, you know, let me ask you a question because, I mean, you're a I I can just your
26:59
energy is amazing, Shelley.
27:01
Like, so I could just imagine I'm feeling it by video.
27:05
I and you're resonating with me.
27:08
And I'm sure that when you were a younger leader, like you said, you went from the
27:13
dictatorial kind of, bureaucratic, kind of step down where it didn't feel right to you, and you
27:20
knew you wanted to lead differently.
27:23
So for leaders that are coming about and, you know, you know, we still I think we're we're
27:29
shifting and especially in today, like, an environment that we are today where all of a
27:34
sudden people are having to lead, virtually, like something you've done a long time.
27:39
True leadership qualities come out now because people really need to feel connected.
27:45
You know, the bottom line is the bottom line.
27:47
We get that to your point.
27:48
We have deadlines.
27:49
We all that stuff that we have to be able to, you know, quarterly, and reports, all that
27:54
stuff.
27:56
So for leaders that are that struggle with that element of vulnerability.
28:01
Because, judge, clearly, what I hear is I hear transparency.
28:04
I hear relational transparency.
28:07
I hear perspective.
28:09
You know, I have moral moral perspective where your trying to live within your integrity.
28:13
Don't these are all the authentic leadership principles that exist out there in the in in
28:18
the literature.
28:20
For a leader that's trying to make that shift, but they're they're kinda stuck in that all
28:25
kind of, system, what kind of guidance would you kind of give someone like that to step into
28:33
it?
28:33
Because it's gonna be uncomfortable for someone like that, right, because they're a kind of a
28:37
them to, you know, I I orate and dictate, and my guidance gets followed.
28:43
And, yeah, there's productivity.
28:45
But there's probably not the level of productivity, that they could create had had
28:50
they create that synergy between between
28:53
your TPA.
28:53
So what kind of guidance would you give them to kind of get comfortable with this kind of
28:57
different leadership?
28:59
Well, 1st and foremost, you have to, in virtual org chart.
29:05
You have to actually put your front line at the top and put yourself at the bottom.
29:09
And actually do that.
29:11
Flip your org chart upside down.
29:13
And actually have them present that to the team.
29:16
You are so important, but it has it can't come from a fake space.
29:19
You know, they gotta feel it.
29:21
But they have to get that mindset.
29:23
On top of that, Jim Donald said it better.
29:25
He was the X CEO of Starbucks.
29:27
And what he said was you have to be a freshman.
29:30
So as the CEO, as that leader, you must be a freshman.
29:33
A freshman forever, you're constantly learning these young kids that these millennials that we
29:39
have coming in or now Gen Z, right, who we all say, oh, they're so entitled.
29:43
And there's a you know what?
29:44
They have great, great information for you.
29:48
Mhmm.
29:48
Shut up and listen.
29:50
Take a minute.
29:51
You know what I mean?
29:51
Because it's the new way.
29:53
So if you know how to handle the new way, but, you know, there's there's so many people, that
30:00
actually asked me the same question and ask eave the same question.
30:05
How do you guys do it?
30:08
We went as far as to build a product.
30:10
Called Tuba, to tell you the honest truth.
30:12
And it's just launched, to help to help the leaders within their organizations transition
30:21
themselves.
30:22
So they become one of the employees, if you will, within this part, just a community member
30:29
within this product, and you are rated from your peers on how well you are trustworthy and
30:36
how good you're social, security is and how great you do in in in, listening.
30:45
What is your active listening skills like?
30:47
And your peers will rate you.
30:49
And you'll get a really good community sense of how you're doing, and you can kind of go from
30:55
there.
30:56
Now a lot of people have a really difficult time.
30:58
Well, I don't that's that's your perspective.
31:00
I think I'm good at this, but I don't know how my team would rate me.
31:03
So in my book, I've done that is I have an assessment that the leader does on himself, him
31:08
or herself, and then their teams does the same thing as the beginning of the training.
31:12
Then they collate, both of the assessments to to me to really kind of look at the gap of what
31:19
what, you know, how am I?
31:20
I think I'm I think I'm pretty good at this.
31:22
My team saying I'm not so good at this or whatever.
31:25
So this, is it called tuba?
31:27
Like like the
31:28
so it's about, you know, you can toot your own horn if you wish.
31:31
But or have somebody else to your horn.
31:34
But, yeah, this would be a great product even for you because what it what it is, you could
31:38
just put it in, and then you would be one of the people that follow it along.
31:42
Oh, wow.
31:42
What's really interesting is is you can actually see when alignment within your company
31:47
goes down.
31:48
Oh, why are we not aligned?
31:49
Oh, a new product can introduce you know, I only told half the people.
31:53
So, of course, the words are going around.
31:55
Right?
31:55
Right.
31:56
Right.
31:56
Right.
31:57
Part of that is and it's I'm in a really kind way.
31:59
Like, when they told me that I was a really crappy listener, and I mean, that was my lowest
32:04
score.
32:05
I was like, oh my god.
32:06
So there was there's also training.
32:09
There's little video training, but I went I went a little step further and I went on to
32:13
YouTube and and, some TED Talks.
32:15
And how can I be a better listener?
32:17
So for me, I had notifications turned on in a lot of my devices, and people come in and talk
32:22
to me all the time, but my device was always going off or my screen was always going off.
32:26
So as I was looking at you, that device would go off and I'd be like, whoops.
32:31
We're right.
32:32
I'm taking my attention off of you.
32:34
Right.
32:35
Well, my my listening, when I paid attention to shoot, they really do think I'm a crappy
32:41
listener, and that not does not make it for a good leader.
32:44
How do I become better?
32:46
But I also said on our Monday morning meeting, I said, oh my on you guys, see that I'm a
32:51
really crappy eater, and I'm so sorry.
32:53
And I'm gonna do everything there
32:55
at that.
32:56
Right.
32:57
Everybody in the office did that at first.
32:59
Some people were like, who put those algorithms together?
33:02
I don't think that's that computer's right.
33:05
I think somebody's after me.
33:07
You need to get people doing that.
33:09
And then all of a sudden, the light bulb goes off.
33:12
Right?
33:12
You go through your different stages and you kinda go, you know, much.
33:15
Shoot.
33:15
I'm really maybe not a great listener, and these things are happening.
33:19
But it's it's, you know, it's amazing when you actually get the leaders to understand that
33:25
they're just part of the community.
33:28
And it's not about you having more power,
33:30
but that is the biggest,
33:33
That's the biggest defeatism, if you will.
33:36
I find, like, there's sometimes when when, you know, leaders will come to me and they'll say,
33:42
you know, so and so wants to be paid this, and that'll actually make them be, like, bill be
33:46
paid more than me.
33:48
Mhmm.
33:48
And I'm like, well, then do that.
33:50
Like, if you think that's beneficial, do it.
33:53
She's oh, Shelley, I can't pay, you know, people more than I make.
33:56
And I'm like, wow.
33:57
I mean, I did that for years.
34:00
I I did that for years.
34:03
I mean, I think it's really important to not do this in a fake way because people are gonna see
34:09
through that.
34:10
You have to really feel that leadership is about service and about serving others and and
34:17
making sure that your company is going to stay, in good standing because you've made these
34:25
people feel like owners along with you, they know you have their back.
34:30
Stop doing the work.
34:32
Stop doing the work and build leaders, find what their talents are, and make sure that
34:39
they're in that area.
34:40
I get a guy who started with me.
34:42
He was a programmer.
34:43
Now he content writer.
34:44
He started like, oh, I really like blogging, and he started blogging on his own, and he
34:48
wrote a book, and and then he came to me.
34:50
He's like, I really don't like coding.
34:52
I'm not really sure I'm like, Hey, we need more content.
34:56
Yeah.
34:56
Yeah.
34:56
You know?
34:57
So put people in the right places just because you hired them for one thing.
35:02
I mean, to take somebody from programming to marketing is really a big step.
35:07
That's quite the swing.
35:08
Yes.
35:09
For sure.
35:12
You know, it can be done.
35:13
You know, promote your people from within.
35:15
Find out what they're good at just because you might have hired them from one thing.
35:19
Doesn't mean that they all of a sudden, haven't found a passion for something else.
35:24
And, of course, we know if they find their joy in it, they will be the, at the most creative
35:29
and the most innovative that they can possibly be, but win win.
35:34
Absolutely.
35:34
And and to your point, when you're invert that org chart, and people see that you're seeing
35:40
their value, how powerful is that, right, and that you're looking to say, here, Roxanne,
35:46
what's your what's your strength?
35:48
And and I'm gonna talk about what I'm really good at, and what you're doing is you're you're
35:53
elevating me feeling better about what I'm really, really good at.
35:56
I mean, I'm not good at that, but it's part of my job, and I I have to do it.
36:00
But if I feel like you're honoring who I am and what I value and what I'm good at or what I
36:06
aspire to be, and you're continually, serving me in that way to bring that up.
36:12
Help.
36:12
I mean, I'm gonna shine.
36:14
You will shine.
36:15
You will shine each and every time.
36:18
So so many of us can cash shadows, right, across our light.
36:23
And at dovaco, not just at dovaco, anybody I meet along the way.
36:30
I what gets me really going is when I can find that light, when I can see their eyes, all of a
36:36
sudden sparkle for that amazing moment that they just had because they found a little spark
36:42
of joy.
36:43
They found little something.
36:45
That's all we need to do with one another is really just stop tearing each other down and
36:51
just really find a way to, oh, help them shine their light.
36:57
Mhmm.
36:58
And I'm I'm gonna assume that just from, again, just feeling what what you're talking about,
37:03
that you live your life like that in alignment with what you value, whether it's at work, or
37:08
outside of work or in your relationships or in your community or, you know, whatever kind of
37:14
role you're playing.
37:15
You're living within that value.
37:17
So it's not like you hit Dovico and you're like, oh, I'm I'm putting the CEO hat on, and
37:21
I've leave Dovico and I'm gonna be a different person.
37:24
You're really congruent with really what you believe in value, and then you kind of promote
37:28
that in whatever realm that you're in.
37:30
Yeah.
37:31
I don't believe in work, work what they call work home balance or work home.
37:36
You got one life, man.
37:38
You got one life, dude.
37:40
Like, I don't know what when people talk to me all.
37:42
I need to have a little bit of work home balance.
37:45
Like, I don't you know, what does that mean?
37:47
Like, what does that mean?
37:49
Like, do what you gotta do, and I'm hoping after this pandemic that fathers will
37:55
understand that taking off from work at 3 o'clock, because that's when their kid gets off
37:58
school, and we're gonna go for a bike ride.
38:00
Because we did it when the on the pandemic, and now we're gonna do it at work and leaders
38:04
understand how important that is because that guy will end up getting some kind of revelation
38:09
when he's open that bike ride with his kid, and he's going to apply that to something that is
38:14
going to make you money if that's really what's important
38:17
to you.
38:17
Yeah.
38:19
But you're also going to have so much more of a happy employee.
38:22
So I'm really hoping employers are going to understand that some of these things that are
38:28
happening during this pandemic are beautiful.
38:31
People are becoming one with their family, I hope.
38:36
You know, I'm
38:37
seeing What what a what a nice, perspective, right, because you know, we hear about p
38:42
everybody trying to talk about isolation and all those things, but really, it's like you're
38:47
right.
38:47
If people are we are you know, some people would say force, but I I think it's a privilege
38:51
to be able to be around your family members and still what you're doing for living and be you
38:55
know, enjoying what you do and getting to, you know, be with your family, what what a gift.
39:00
So that shift might be something that will actually come to the workplace that you're
39:04
right.
39:04
Like, the father that is able to, you know, kind of spend more time with his children at
39:08
home versus maybe if mom's the primary one that takes that lead.
39:12
And that makes him just a more well rounded person, and then he brings that back to work.
39:17
Absolutely.
39:18
And then just people that have never been virtual like you have, that now has the element
39:23
that I can still be or probably even more productive because I get to spend some time
39:30
than I get to go out and go for a walk with my my wife or I get to be able to you know, put
39:36
things on pause and read something that I want that's not related to work.
39:40
Like, so it's that it's that window into that we can actually do both, and we can have a full
39:45
life versus work means I work too much and then I come home and I barely got the energy to be
39:51
able to kind of give back.
39:53
I actually can I can do both?
39:55
Right.
39:56
I can do both.
39:57
And and that is that is so important.
40:01
And I'm I'm I'm hoping that that it won't go back.
40:04
I'm hoping that we actually have a new normal, and that means that dads or moms are gonna say,
40:10
you know what?
40:11
I'm not gonna book any meetings after 3.
40:13
If I have something to do later, I'll I'll do when the kids are down or I'll you know,
40:18
whatever it may be, I don't think it's necessary.
40:23
We know we know that people cannot think or do any their their best work comes in 50 minute
40:29
chunks.
40:29
Right?
40:30
50 minute chunks.
40:31
You know, take that 50 minutes.
40:32
Set the alarm on your phone.
40:34
In the next 10 minutes, get down and do some push ups, you know, meditate for a few minutes.
40:39
Just be quiet for a moment.
40:41
Grab a book and and, that's fiction
40:43
and and not work related.
40:46
You know, that's read something that's mindless.
40:48
You know, you you screen does need 10 minutes.
40:50
And I'm hoping that people actually see that because you know darn to what's happening and
40:54
when we're not in our office, Yeah.
40:57
You know, the dryer is going off.
40:58
So I'm gonna run down and I'll grab the stuff out of the dryer, or I'm gonna get up and make
41:03
myself a coffee, which takes a little bit longer than you know, putting the mesh thing
41:07
under the courage.
41:07
So interesting enough, I think that people are actually getting more breaks What we're seeing
41:14
in our marketing meaning anyways is a lot more creativity.
41:18
You know?
41:19
So, I think that people that didn't work at home, even though they were allowed to at
41:24
Dovaco, but for whatever reason, they had young kids or whatever reason it was, and some of
41:29
them are actually finding their flow a lot better than they did at the office.
41:34
You know, we we spend, a quarter of a $1,000,000 on rent at our office.
41:41
And I'm thinking hard that maybe we don't need to.
41:44
Right.
41:45
Right.
41:45
So you're gonna see a lot of I I think, you know, so much of the media has been focusing on
41:49
the negative, but really I think, you know, to your point, It's the positive things that we
41:54
can look, which is connection, going back to the basics, what's important, and that we can
41:58
do both.
41:59
We can we can work and and and love what we do, but also love love up on our families and have
42:04
something left to be able to give, you know, give back, even though we're kind of maybe in
42:09
the middle of our careers.
42:11
Yeah.
42:12
Absolutely.
42:13
I mean, I don't I I I implore everybody to look at this as a collective sigh.
42:19
The earth needed it.
42:21
I think every one of us needed it.
42:23
Let's take a collective side.
42:24
You know, I teach yoga.
42:26
And when we're really in that oh, that space where you don't think you can make that, like,
42:31
you can't hold on another moment.
42:33
Right?
42:33
We do this side.
42:36
Yep.
42:36
I didn't mean to let that go, and we let it go because we can't actually take another step
42:44
unless we do let that silo.
42:46
We know we we can't.
42:48
So the sigh happens We're able to actually think for a moment.
42:54
We're able to actually just take a second so we know what that next step is.
43:01
And we were in trouble.
43:02
I think that we were in trouble as humankind And, I'm looking up this.
43:07
Oh, this is a really good thing myself.
43:09
You know?
43:10
Am I afraid?
43:11
I am.
43:12
I'm afraid.
43:13
You know, I I don't think that anybody in the right mind wouldn't say they're, not afraid.
43:19
But you know what?
43:19
I'm not afraid about money.
43:23
Mhmm.
43:23
Mhmm.
43:23
Not
43:24
what I'm afraid of.
43:25
I'm afraid that my eighty five year old mother and my ninety three year old father might die
43:29
alone in this.
43:30
You know?
43:31
Yes.
43:31
Of course.
43:32
Of course.
43:32
Biggest fear to tell you the honest truth.
43:34
I have a little vulnerability when I do go out groceries.
43:37
I I'm I'm, you know, I'm gonna admit that.
43:41
But, leaders right now and every one of us are leaders.
43:46
Every human being on this planet is a leader, and it is so important that everybody
43:54
understands that.
43:54
I don't care if you're an extrovert or an introvert.
43:57
You are a leader.
43:59
And it's going to be so important that once this pandemic is done, that you lead and you
44:05
lead with grace and you lead with love 1st and foremost.
44:09
And I'm not talking about the desire love.
44:12
I'm talking about with your heart wide open.
44:15
With as much purity as you can possibly muster because what's going to happen is we get to
44:22
start again looking to start again.
44:26
And I don't it it hasn't been since 1918, really, that people got to start again.
44:32
Hopefully, we won't have those kind of losses.
44:36
I think this is just the tip of the iceberg for us.
44:38
I think that we need to make sure that we understand what this collective size.
44:44
And I, I implore those who can really find it within themselves to go one step further, and
44:50
you are the hero.
44:52
And the world is waiting for you.
44:54
And we all need to be a hero through this and to learn from it.
44:58
Now, Shelley, this has been amazing.
45:00
And, you know, I have gained so much today and having you in my book will be an, a, like, a
45:07
gift.
45:08
I truly think that, not only teams, but leaders can learn from it.
45:12
What am I taking away that we're all leaders.
45:15
So, you know, give everybody, the space to to lead and to find their strength.
45:21
So thanks for spending the time with us today.
45:23
Thank you.
45:24
Thank you.
45:26
So this is Roxanne Derhodge.
45:27
If you're needing anything, related to mental health and well-being, I also have a course on
45:32
relationships.
45:32
If you're wanting to learn more about how to enhance your relationships, you just go to
45:36
Roxanne, and there's a link there.
45:39
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
45:45
healthy change.
45:46
Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
45:52
rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint we'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.