Latest / Paging America / RFK Jr.'s Chemtrails, Overton's FDA Bid, and Dr. Vin Gupta on What Comes Next

Transcript

RFK Jr.'s Chemtrails, Overton's FDA Bid, and Dr. Vin Gupta on What Comes Next · Paging America

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: This concept here that we shouldn't be leading into better understanding
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: of disparities and somehow that's a liberal woke ideology.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's such short term thinking and it's so plain to red meat politics that,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: you know, I want to believe and I will get into trust.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think 80, 90% of America sees through it.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it's just 10 to 15% that are so damn good at media and marketing
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: that have co-opted all the oxygen.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Miles, you got a little different background there.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you coming from today?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I am coming to you from Traverse City,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Michigan,
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: where I spend a little bit of time usually in shoulder season in the spring and in
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: the fall.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, this city is really growing.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you I don't know if you know this,
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: but presidential hopeful Pete Buttigieg moved to town.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: like the city's changing, like the type of people who are moving here are changing.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: When in the traffic circle near the airport,
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: you're driving around and you find yourself surrounded by black SUVs,
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: like you're in Washington,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: D.C. And so you're driving along and you're like this sleepy little coastal town.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, why are all these black SUVs around me?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I am surrounded by the Buddha judges.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: You've been hanging out with Secretary Pete yet up there?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't spotted them in person outside of the cars, but it's small enough.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: You eventually will.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe at Cherry Festival.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Although you probably avoid it during Cherry Festival.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't come here during Cherry Festival.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right, everyone.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Paging America,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: where we explore the power and profit shaping American healthcare and your home base
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: for news and interviews from people building the universal healthcare movement.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, campaign strategist, Miles Baker.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Dr.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Rob Davidson.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a great show for you today.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: But before we get started, please head over to YouTube and hit the subscribe button.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Help us fight misinformation and disinformation on the platform
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: with real healthcare news and viewpoints.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for doing that in advance.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate it.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Rob, we got a big, big show today, a lot to cover.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: The nomination of Heidi Overton,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Robert Kennedy Jr. seems to be ramping up his grift and his profiteering.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Trump's assault on the NIH grant award system and throwing people off Obamacare.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have a great interview on the back half with Dr.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Vin Gupta, a contributor at Midas Touch, as well as MSNOW.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so stick around for that.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great conversation.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't we get right into the meat of it?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: The big thing that's happening today,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: unfortunately,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: it's happening right as we record,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: is the Senate Help Committee hearing for FDA nominee Heidi Overton.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we will have some content on and reaction to that a little later on our On Call channel.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just for a little bit of background,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Overton's support for Trump's totally nonsensical decision to modify
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: the childhood vaccine schedule,
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: along with her extremely zealous advocacy to ban abortion,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: makes her like a grown in a lab,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: terrible candidate for the very important job, very powerful job of leading the FDA.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Despite this,
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: the reportedly pro-choice Senator Susan Collins met with Overton this week and told
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: the National Journal's Nancy Vu that they had a,
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: quote, good conversation, but she's not yet made a decision.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Help Committee Chair Bill Cassidy said that in order to win his vote,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Overton needs to tell him that she understands that calling
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: the measles vaccine lethal is absurd.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Seems like a very specific quote he's feeding her.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty low.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: The bar gets lower every time.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to be talking more about Overton's nomination with Dr.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Van Gupta at the back half of the show,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: as well as reacting to the actual hearing a little later today.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that's happening at the same time that we're recording this.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not going to cover it too, too much.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to share the process real quick for people following along.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: They can't confirm her today.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is just the hearing.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then they would need to wait a full week because you need to post that you're going
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: to do the vote a week in advance.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when they could pass it out of help.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Needs to get out of help, which any Republican in help can sink it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then it needs to move on to the full floor.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so it needs to pass sort of a two-step process here.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there are a lot of opportunities to sink this scary nomination for FDA head.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're interested in helping along with that,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: you can go to www.committeetoprotect.org and there's volunteer opportunities
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: for doctors, nurses,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: and providers to get engaged in this process and see if we can stop Heidi Overton
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: and her crazy.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's go on to the big news with Robert Kennedy.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Last week,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Robert F.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Kennedy Jr.
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  SPEAKER_00: returned to the fold when he headlined the Washington, D.C.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Conference of Children's Health Defense,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: the stridently anti-vax group he founded and led for years.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: He spoke for nearly 90 minutes, and he told the group this.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's roll the tape.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Let me be clear.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: You have a strong and steadfast friend at the White House.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I need to hear.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's credentializing Donald Trump.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: He also seems like he's maybe teeing himself up for a run.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: When he's speaking at these things, he's speaking about himself in more grandiose terms.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to get into his book a little bit later,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: but it looks like a book that someone who's running for president would write.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: His big moment,
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Rob, was when he bizarrely told attendees that he has HHS looking into chemtrails.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: This came the same week that HHS announced that they're looking
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: into potential health effects of electromagnetic fields,
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: radio frequency radiation, and wireless radiation exposure.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Another conspiracy he has long held in January when he was asked about this concerns
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: about 5G towers.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: He said,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: generally speaking,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: electromagnetic radiation is a major health concern,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm very concerned about it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Chemtrails.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And 5G.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it's like the, it's the most kooky.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's bursting, as the quote is, he's bursting with madness.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: coming full circle at Children's Health Defense to talk about the full potpourri
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: of health conspiracy theories.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I remember when this came up on a chain we're on, I said, ooh, get out the tinfoil hat.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, nah, he's already got that on.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, so I,
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: like, It's one of those, like, wow, crazy he said that, but are we really surprised?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is really news.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was really surprised about the chemtrails.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I actually was really surprised.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know he's just an absolute madman,
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: but I thought he had, like,
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought he had his, like,
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: hand on the wheel a little firmer where they were doing, like,
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: actual politics,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: but it's, like,
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: it's just plain to,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: like, a very crazy substrate of the Republican primary electorate.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Where is the constituency for chemtrails?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I guess if he's going to be in a primary with J.D.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Vance and Marco Rubio and who knows who else,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: maybe he's going to carve out that little niche, but my God.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of like get out the popcorn.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see where the hell this goes.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I can't imagine listening to him talk for 90 minutes like that.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't talk much about like listening to this guy, but oh my God, like just listening.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, yeah, I mean, it's troubling.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like this, this is where this guy made his name.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I made a ton of money at Children's Health Defense,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know, massive anti-vax group.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Pushing all these conspiracy theories, you know, undermining the competence of vaccines.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously he took that to the White House and he just wants to go
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: and make sure they know like like he's still their friend.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it should.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Any any any lingering thoughts that anyone has,
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know, obviously most of us have no lingering thoughts.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if someone's out there and they're thinking maybe maybe if there's you know,
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: it seems like there's a lot of smoke here.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there is fire.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think you look at his adoption of the 5G conspiracy theories and say,
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: no, this is a completely discredited madman.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is a person who is either willing to say insane things in order
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: to get political favor or a person who is genuinely thinks insane things
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: and should be relegated appropriately to like having no access to power
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: and probably not access to like The store with other people.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's like that crazy.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: He should be restricted for public spaces with children in them.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when he goes up to people, he said when he's on walks.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: He does believe in 5G, will bother your child at the airport.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Robert Kennedy Jr.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't, I mean, I don't think he's performing here.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because again, there's such a niche audience for someone who wants to be in public life.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like you would not like spin the wheel and choose chemtrails as the way
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: to get more popular with the general public.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: That seems like a real stride.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So this is just in his core, man.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's wild.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely wild.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: The rest of the world must be looking at us like, what on earth?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just, the fact that we could have a madman.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Be so high in our public health infrastructure.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But more on Robert Kennedy, because it's not just that he's bursting with madness.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's that he's stealing.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's that he's stealing at a rate.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Robert Kennedy Jr.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: reported receiving lavish gifts from a rich donor pal plus a $4 million
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: in book advances.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So in his annual financial ethics disclosure,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: his unethical disclosure,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Kennedy reported receiving more than 250,000 worth in free flights to Fiji
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: and Greece.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's where that leathery complexion comes from,
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: his time on the beach in Fiji and Greece,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: as well as his use of vacation home in Washington,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: D.C. as gifts from Gavin DeBecker, a security consultant and longtime supporter.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: The gifts included a nearly $45,000 round-trip airfare to Greece and almost $97,000
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: in round-trip flights to Fiji, where DeBecker owns a compound.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what that means where he owns a whole compound.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Via La Voce de New York reports that De Becker provides security services to Kennedy
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: and contributor loaned about $14.2 million to American Values 2024,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: the super PAC that supported his presidential bid.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: The disclosure also revealed that Kennedy got two book advances totaling $4 million
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: from Sky Horse Publishing for forthcoming books.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: One of which is titled Unsettled Science.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: DeBecker also wrote a book published by Skyhorse Publishing called Forbidden Facts
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: that alleges government suppression of information about brain damage
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: from childhood vaccines.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's easy to be a madman if you're just raking it in ass over tea kettle money.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like fists of cash.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it just like smooths out the rough edges of being absolutely mad in public.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, to me,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: a bigger picture, I don't know, a bigger point about these disclosures, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: you're getting to see behind the curtain a bit,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: like what fuels this guy, like where the money's coming from.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And boy,
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of push,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Republicans especially push this in healthcare,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: getting to like our primary purpose here.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if we just shed light on what hospitals are charging
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: and what insurance companies charge,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: if they have to publish their rates, that is the path, right?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because then the market will work.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: People will choose.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is to me an example.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: When this This shit gets put out there and there is no price to pay.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: There is no price to pay for this.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is almost admittance into the club of these kooks
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: that you are having some weird billionaire financing family trips and inviting you
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: to their compound and then just getting book advances for absolute garbage
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: that you're going to put out there.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: To me, this is an example of why it just doesn't work in 2026.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: There is no shame.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're at the point where the,
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to speak ill of the Kennedy family
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: because it seems like there's some good Kennedys out there in the world
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: and some strange Kennedys and then this one very evil Kennedy.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: It does seem like they should empty their fortune to try
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: to make sure Robert Kennedy Jr. is never elected to anything again.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a familial obligation.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to make a little note to the Kennedys.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: You should get out there.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: You should be players on the field.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Go get this guy.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know some of them really swung hard at him during his nomination, but he got through.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Still got to stay in the game to stop this guy.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing I would say is, yeah,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're totally right that the proponents
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: of healthcare system transparency Saying that that'll be some sort of panacea or
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: that will even fix much of anything.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think the fact that we can learn all about this, about we can learn all about Kennedy.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have to go away forever or go to a prison or like,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: is that like immediately his career immediately ended by the Senate speaks to
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: the fact that we live in this really complicated information environment.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a complicated information environment for healthcare markets
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: that aren't real markets.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a complicated information environment for politicians and public leaders.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's tough out there.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's why we need to ban stock trading in Congress, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: The Oval Office, apparently like 27,000 or however many tens of thousands of stock trades.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's one thing that they just put it out there and then we can go beat them up
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: about it because of some awful things,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know, but,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: but like actually like do something about it,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: make shit like this, not legal, like not just like unethical, just like not legal.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just can't do it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sounds right.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: on to a big topic of news that's sort of shaping the science part of the government,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: the NIH.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So Trump makes a move.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's trying to blatantly politicize NIH grant awards or steal them or route them to
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: the Pentagon.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little unclear what he's trying to do with these billions of dollars.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's yes, man.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's yes, man.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he's trying to steal it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's trying to route it to the Pentagon.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he's politicizing it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's correct.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's doing all three, everybody.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So New York Times reports the White House has begun drafting a new executive order
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: that could further cement President Trump's ability to control billions,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: with a B,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: of dollars in scientific grants that expand the administration's pressure campaign
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: against elite universities.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Discussed at a highly contentious meeting at the White House on Friday,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: the order aims to create a new external committee with the power to veto awards in
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: the National Institutes of Health's vast research portfolio that do not conform
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: to Mr. Trump's political agenda.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Politico reports that Trump directed his budget director Russ Vogt to draft the order.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: The proposed board would include NIH Director Jay Bhattacharya and Vogt
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: and would be required to reach unanimous decisions on grant awards.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, Jay Bhattacharya and Vogt would be on the board.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's so stupid.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: At the same meeting,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Trump ordered Bhattacharya to cut Harvard's funding, but Bhattacharya refused.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: The official said,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: I got to tell you, Yeah,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: they really are trying to take the points of distribution of money
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: and repurpose them for whatever the heck they feel like.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: NIH grants,
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: and particularly NIH grants to research universities,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: have been one of the reasons why the United States of America has been so successful
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: with R&D of all types,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: particularly advancements in health and its advancements for health for not just
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: the United States, but for the people the world over.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is a direct assault on it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's been under duress since they took office.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they went right out of the gate.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: But this is a more significant seizure of power at the NIH.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did a deep dive into the drug class of 2026, maybe 25, and going forward, GLP-1s.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: They don't exist without primary research,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: NIH grants funding the research on this stuff decades ago.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: They just don't happen.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so many of the advancements.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: But people like listening, just lay people, they know what these things are, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: They know the GOP ones.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they've been transformative.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other piece of this, like Trump is a dangerous person, a dangerous president.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: But with Russ Vogt, it feels like the tail wagging the dog a bit.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because Russ Vogt, like the architect of Project 2025, like Trump ordered Vogt to do this.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, come on, like, Vogt.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is his little project.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And he's telling Trump.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Trump,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I believe,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: probably pissed off at Harvard because someone did something or said something
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: that ruffled his feathers.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, take away their funding because he can name that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he didn't get accepted at some point and he had his daddy get him in the pen.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: But like Russ Vogt, evil guy, man.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Evil guy.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's an evil dude.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Russ Vogt.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Reservo is one of the candidates for prison,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think, when this is all said and done for the amount of illegality.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, it seems like illegality.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Illegality.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: The one other thing,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: do you think if someone went up to Donald Trump and just like,
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: good faith, got an answer, said, what does the NIH do?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Donald Trump could answer that question.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I do not think he could.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: I do not think he could.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure he could spell NIH.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure he could spell NIH.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: But like, if you were like, to the answer to
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: your question, no.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: 0% chance.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe 2%, 3% chance times.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way Donald Trump knows what the NIH does.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when they're saying there's a big pot of money,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: you can have some of it for bombs,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: you can try to steal some of it,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: and we can kind of like have this new revenue source without going to Congress,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: that must be appealing.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think the cost benefit there is just not part of the equation in
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: the decision making here.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: You have a zealot convincing a man, kind of a deteriorating old man.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, on to the most unexpected evil step of the administration.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the Trump administration just threw over three quarters of
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: a million Americans off their Obamacare insurance.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: On Tuesday, J.D.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Vance and Dr. Oz.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Announced
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: that they're throwing nearly 760,000 people off their ACA health insurance coverage
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: because they never filed a claim, which is not how insurance works.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let's watch the clip.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: That 760,000 people,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: we call them phantoms because we believe most of them either don't exist
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: or had no idea they had coverage.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: We believe that because we have been writing them,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: telexing them,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: walking to them,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: FedExing,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: whatever we could possibly do to get in touch with them,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: they won't answer and they have never filed a claim.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a claim, It gives us confidence.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: You at least know you have insurance.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what a telex is, Rob?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're older than me.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I looked it up, right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I looked it up.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: You had to look it up?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So FedEx and telex.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm old.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm old.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't going to say you're older.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to say you're older.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to say you're older.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you would be more likely to know what a telex is.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like a blast fax.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You ever heard of a blast fax?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a way you could use a fax machine to send multiple other fax machines.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is that like woof?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, office reference, but it might be like that.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, we're off track.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Three quarters of a million people getting thrown off their healthcare
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: because they haven't filed a claim.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're going to speculate,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: but we know enough about insurance markets that it's informed speculation.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's likely younger people.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's likely more transient people.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: If they're younger, they're likely more healthy.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so what they're doing- They're screwing those people over,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: but what they're really doing is they're taking a melon baller to the parts of
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: the ACA that keep the ACA healthy and keep the ACA functioning,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: and they're pulling out a big chunk of it,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: and they're undermining the system that covers hard-to-insure people anyway.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the single biggest cost containment measure in the ACA, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: It certainly had flaws,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: but the single biggest cost containment measure was the individual mandate, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Republicans sued and they gutted that, right?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't get rid of it, but they zeroed out the penalty.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So then essentially got rid of that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So young, healthy people aren't a part of the plan.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Largely, those are the folks who just don't get insurance because what's going to happen?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then this is just another way of whittling away at that group of people
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: who doesn't utilize their insurance as much as older people or less well people
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: and drives down the cost.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's just going to make it more expensive for everybody.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And to say that, well,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: because you didn't file a claim,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: we think you're a ghost, we think you're a fraud, it doesn't hold muster.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Waste, fraud, and abuse is their everlasting argument for anything they try to do.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the most fraudulent,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: wasteful abusers are the people running the entire government right now,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: the Trump administration.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I have to say,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: that press conference is,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: have there ever been two more awkward and sort of unlikable people on
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: a press conference together?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: JD Vance and Dr. Oz, like ew.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's just gross.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's surprising they didn't just like fuse together to make like an unlikable star.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: My takeaway, look, these people are mockable, so we're gonna like mock them.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: If anyone's not into us like making fun of their physical appearance,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I apologize, but I don't really.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Dr. Oz calling people fraudsters is obviously stupid because he's obvious
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: the whole thing is a big fraud since Oprah to now has been this big, long con.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: But him calling people a ghost is also funny because he is getting lighter
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: and more translucent and gray.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's turning into a ghost in front of our very eyes.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, this guy can't.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's so despicable.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is so despicable.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I never heard what the justification was.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they give a fake justification, but where is the legal rationale?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Also, it's September 24th.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's 43 days before the general election,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: and they're having a press conference to throw more people off healthcare,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: which poll after poll after poll says is one of the major drivers and
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: the most intense driver of why people want to vote in this election.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like they hate the congressional Republicans.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a whole of the federal branch or of the tri-executive branch.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they must have had a meeting on this,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: like a strategy session, because if not, it couldn't happen this way, right?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: They couldn't have just randomly, stupidly fallen into this.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe they can't.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do we make sure Mike Lawler loses by so much he can't get a job afterwards?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's throw people off health care again.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're trying to be so he is not welcome in polite society.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: He Reservation at his favorite restaurant in the Hudson River Valley.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, that's shame on you, Dr. Oz and JD Vance.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: You are despicable.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: You continue to be despicable.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't throw people out their healthcare.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Democrats,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: when you take power back, I mean,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: it's going to take a couple of years,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: but we got to figure out universal healthcare so this can never happen again.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is chaos for millions of Americans and it sucks for, sucks.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Rob, we got one last piece of news.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is in the category of our gerontocracy, our ongoing sad...
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Awful gerontocracy.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: We're asking the question today, is Mitch McConnell cognitively impaired?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell returned to work
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: after three-month medical absence in July.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: He released
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: a statement saying surviving childhood polio meant spending my entire life
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: with mobility challenges they haven't exactly gotten easier to manage with age.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's back now, but he's not looking good.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are several videos of him being pushed around in a wheelchair with
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: a glazed look on his face and a frozen smile.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let's watch one of them from independent journalist Desiree Townsend.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: What was your weekend, Senator McConnell?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have a good weekend, sir?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Are you ready for a new work week?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Senator.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Good to see you, sir.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Terry, is it safe bringing him back to the Senate like this?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Senator McConnell, do you want to go to work?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to be at work, sir?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Would you rather be home?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: You'd rather be home?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry this is happening to you, sir.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's hard to watch.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's hard to watch.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people have waited.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's obvious that this has Weekend and Bernie vibes.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's obviously pretty clearly elder abuse.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Even if Mitch McConnell is an evil old bastard, it's still fucking hard to watch.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on here?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a few things.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Their statement on mobility.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a mobility issue.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Tammy Duckworth is a double amputee from her Blackhawk helicopter going down.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's a senator.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mobility is a problem, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: That is not the issue here, folks.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: We don't care.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if Mitch McConnell's in a wheelchair, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's not mobility or he walks slowly.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Based on the 911 call logs that said that someone was down, CPR was in progress, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this is at his house.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then he was absent for three months, right?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: We have to assume that was Mitch McConnell who was getting CPR.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: When you're 84 years old and your brain isn't getting the proper blood flow for
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: a period of time,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: it does not take long to suffer severe, severe anoxic brain injury, right?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the first things to go- Sorry Rob, what
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: was that?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, brain injury from lack of oxygen, anoxic brain injury.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: it is the ultimate thing that we think about when someone has like a cardiac arrest,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about like getting the heart started.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like truly the energy thing is, well, what's going to happen to the brain here, right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's why we will,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: at a certain period of time with certain indicators during a code blue,
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: you cease efforts.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: You talk to family and say, listen,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: like we might get his heart back or even if you do,
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: but like there is no chance of meaningful recovery here of the brain, right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's why a lot of people who are 84 decide,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: and I had two of these conversations working shifts last weekend with people
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: in their 80s about,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: do you want us to do all these things if your heart stops, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't breathe, do you want to be resuscitated?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And many choose not to because we know it doesn't take much.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the first things to go are executive function, cognitive ability to the frontal lobe.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the basal ganglia, which involves movement, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So he's showing like the very slow raising the fingers and a peace sign,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: like that blank stare with a kind of fixed smile, no blinking.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: These are just the hallmarks of an 80 some year old.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this is interesting because Dr.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Gupta and I talked a bit about the gerontocracy when we talked about a little bit
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: about AI,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: AI and healthcare and AI kind of legislation and how people in their 80s have like,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: they don't, they don't Get it some.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, yeah, we need term limits.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And like, that's a real problem.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: But boy, another real problem is like something like this, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: An 84 year old suffers a major medical event,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: comes back and now is, is now representing Kentucky.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like that doesn't work.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make any sense to anyone.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then, so Rob, do people come back?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously he's like very old, but.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do people bounce back from stuff like that?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Not 84 year olds.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not 84.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Not 84 year olds.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: 40 year olds do.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Good news, Miles.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, you are like 40 year olds, even my age, 55.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I was doing some deep dives into like the age bands of all of this.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm at the upper limit of the adult, like meaningful recovery scale.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm coming down the downhill.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: But at 84, you don't.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's called neuroplasticity.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Little kids, yeah,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: little kids, man, you run those forever because their brains can rebound, right?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: They can grow new pathways and neurons and all that.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: At 84, you just can't.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so the chance that he gets better instead of worse
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: from what we're seeing right now is extremely low.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I get it.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: He's not running again.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: He won't be a senator at the end of this beginning and next year.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: But like, what the hell?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is really sad that they're doing this to him.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And again, yeah, he's an evil old bastard, but still a human being.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And people are marching him out to give votes.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I would just say like the, I am, I guess, pettier than this, but pettier than this.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't allowed to have a vote on Merrick Garland for Supreme Court
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: because we were 60 days out from a general election.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like enough reason to make it inappropriate to cast a vote.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: But he's coming in as a person who is very, very sick.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm possibly cognitively impaired.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he's casting.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: You saw that he cast the wrong vote and they had to like whisper.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: They had to whisper in his ear and he switched his vote.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: He said no.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the ag committee and the Democrats kind of look.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then the people on either side,
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: the Republicans like, so no, no, that's not what you want to do.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: it's not like checkers or chess where if you take your hand off the piece,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: you can't, you can't, you can't move the piece anymore.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: He got to switch his vote, I guess.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch McConnell.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's sad to see.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: He also stole the Supreme court.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: And has done an enormous amount of terrible things to this country.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I guess we probably can talk about those things now because once he passes,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: it's not nice to speak ill of the dead.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I, yeah, that's just hard to watch.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sad to watch.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Very, I mean, pretty craven over the planet to wheel him in to get the vote.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty, pretty gross to watch.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Rob.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of your conversation with Dr. Van Gupta, it sounds like it was a good one.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: So are we ready to throw to the interview?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everyone.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Paging America.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Really excited about our guest today, Dr. Vin Gupta.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Dr. Gupta is an Air Force veteran,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: a practicing pulmonologist and public health leader who serves
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: as senior medical analyst for MSNOW and head of health content at
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: the Midas Touch Network.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: He is committed to disseminating evidence-based,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: trusted health information to American families nationwide.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Dr. Gupta, thanks so much for joining me.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Dr. Davidson, for having me.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot going on right now.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: That intersects with the kind of things that you do and you talk about.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: But this week we have FDA nominee, Dr. Heidi Overton, facing a help committee hearing.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's an MD, PhD,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: trained in surgery at John Hopkins,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: a White House Domestic Policy Council deputy
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: and was former America First Policy Institute policy chief.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: She does hold some pretty extreme views on abortion
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: and helped write Trump's August 10th MMR vaccine executive order.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I guess this is sort of in the world of opinion.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think she's qualified to lead the FDA?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't, Rob.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'll say that there's a difference between,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: clearly she has impressive credentials,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: great training,
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: and yet you can have those elements and still be grossly unqualified.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: To lead such an important agency as the FDA.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: So while she might be a talented clinician,
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: does she demonstrate the ethical and frankly moral standing to serve in
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: that capacity?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't believe so.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: She has without any basis called into question receiving mail order medication,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: abortion pills, which women across the country rely on.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, for our listeners right now and as you know,
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: The vast majority of people that need access to abortion care often now receive that
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: through medication abortion that is delivered directly to their home.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: There is no safety issue whatsoever,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: even though they continue to call that into question,
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: quote unquote, citing studies that are ongoing.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's going to illuminate anything new.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: It won't.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: But she's calling it into question, depriving women of a needed service if they need it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Again, without any standing.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: She's done what you've already mentioned on MMR vaccine,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: which is, I mean, ludicrous is an understatement.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: But if those are her core tenants,
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: and if that's what she's signaling already,
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: imagine if she's actually in the role of FDA commissioner, what she could do.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you alluded to this,
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: but kind of stepping back to Marty Macri,
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: the former FDA commissioner, partly he was pushed out.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think part of it was on flavored vapes,
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: but also for resisting pressure on the Mifepristone review.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: That likely is going to land with Overton if she were to get confirmed for this post.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, she's had these views.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's called abortion corrosive and pushed for titer restrictions on the pill.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is she walking into that same fight?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And does it seem like that's part of the point of putting her there?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is an administration,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Overton,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: if she gets confirmed into the role,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: which I assume that they're working against a November 3rd timeline,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: because if the Senate changes,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: I can't imagine she would ever pass the help committee from a nomination standpoint.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: And yes,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: if you're gonna be the FDA commissioner,
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: you have to separate personal beliefs from what is scientifically rigorous,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: what's gonna meet clear regulatory standards based on the evidence.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: You can't just pass a regulation or push forward in the EO
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: And do something on emergency declaration because it aligns with your ideological views.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: But that is symptomatic of what we're seeing across
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: the broader health infrastructure at the federal government.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Rob, I'm sure you saw this a few days ago.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're now talking about an additional layer of approvals for NIH grants.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's what Russell Vaught and OMB wants to do.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: And they want to get rid of, quote unquote, woke ideology in the process of grant making.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: What does that actually mean?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: What they really wanna get rid of is health disparities research.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: Why is it that we study why one county does more poorly than say another county
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: when it comes to basic health outcomes?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: You're an emergency physician, you're at the front lines of this.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: If they get rid of the research that goes into health disparities
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: and related outcomes,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: It can then justify why they're hollowing out Medicaid,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: why SNAP has been cut by billions,
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: why subsidies for the Affordable Care Act are down by 30%.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't have a justification in the data,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: well, then you can justify their backwards policy.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: But it's all ideological driven on that front and now on the Overton front.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I mean, you read my mind on that one about RustVote.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: There was a pretty tense meeting in the Oval Office,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: and he and NIH Director Jay Bhattacharya, I think, had words.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Trump is asking Bhattacharya directly to cut Harvard's funding, which She refused to do.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, apparently there's a draft executive order that would give some board,
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: I guess, Russ Vogt in charge of that board veto power over the grants.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I guess kind of getting a little more into that,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to your thoughts on,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know the health disparities research,
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: but like between that and then there's reporting that the Defense Department had
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: an agreement with the NIH to kind of Transfer money from the NIH into
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: the Defense Department?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is this a backhanded way of funding the war in Iran since they can't get Congress to do it?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you have any more thoughts on that whole scenario at NIH.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: The lipstick here,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: the makeup on what seems like non-transparent policy is
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: that somehow this money is going to go towards pandemic preparedness research
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: and infectious disease preparedness.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: The question is, is that true?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Can we actually believe that that's true,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: that any NIH funding is being used from the DOD to do this?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: I come from an Air Force background.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: There is a role and there is a world where the Pentagon
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: in normal times actually does support that type of biomedical research,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Center for Global Health Engagement to the Pentagon,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: USIS, which is Uniformed Services, University for Health Sciences.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, these entities in normal times actually would be used for these purposes
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: to some degree to help safeguard And really prepare for the next pandemic.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: I have no faith whatsoever that that's what these funds would actually be utilized
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: to do because we have a secretary of defense or war or whatever we're calling it
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: that is not transparent.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: So is there any belief or trust here that these funds would be appropriated for that purpose?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely not.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Will there be a paper trail that they'll be accountable to?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: I highly doubt it.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: And this is not how it's supposed to be.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: These appointees are not elected.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think elected officials have every right to set the agenda research priorities more broadly.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: But we're operating within reasonable bounds here when you think about most administrations.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: And generally, it's one flavor of the same thing.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Let's focus on chronic disease.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's make sure pandemic preparedness is robust.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: Let's research the next generation of therapeutics.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: There isn't usually a ton of variation year to year or administration to administration.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: But resource priorities are the right of elected officials,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: but not their political appointees when it comes to distorting those priorities
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: and really informing them based purely on ideology.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what we're saying here is ideology is driving Overton.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's driving NIH grant making potentially.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Of course,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: it's driving a lot of what we're seeing from CMS and sort of defunding people
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: and basic access to health care.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll make the broader point.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting that they don't care about research that doesn't apply
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: to their favorite demographics.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they are talking about defunding research for minority groups,
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: women's health, health disparities.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: That makes sense from their standpoint because they don't care
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: about providing health care for any of those demographics based on their policies.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so you're seeing a direct line here and there's a lot of consistency.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as we both know,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: actually practicing medicine,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: taking care of patients,
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: those are the exact communities that have been let down by an entire system,
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: even a system that has attempted to prioritize research in those areas or research.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Expanding care in those areas.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: The historical trends of those groups of people being left
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: behind have made it difficult in the best of circumstances,
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: even if you are not intentionally going after those groups.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so it seems doubly or triply,
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: pick a number,
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: difficult in this kind of setting when they have an explicit agenda to kind of be
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: against that.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, 100%.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: And for those that don't care about the well-being of
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: of those groups, which I would argue is the top leaders in the federal government.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't even make economic sense.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: As you know,
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: just as I do,
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: if the workforce and if the blue collar folks powering corporate America
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: and critical service industries are not healthy,
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: and are healthy enough to do their job, that's not good for anybody.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Also,
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: we all know what happens when somebody doesn't have access to basic preventive care
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: and they're allowed to do a job.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: They end up in your ER or your colleague's ER.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's not good for society.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's obviously not good for them and their families.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's not good for the balance sheet of America.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so this concept here that We shouldn't be leaning
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: into better understanding disparities and somehow that's a liberal woke ideology.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's such short term thinking and it's so plain to red meat politics that I want
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: to believe and I will get into trust.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think 80, 90% of America sees through it.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: But it's just 10 to 15% that are so damn good at media and marketing
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: that have co-opted all the oxygen.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean,
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: you just brought up trust and that's interesting because I wanted to chat
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit about that simply because of kind of what you do Outside
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: of your clinical practice.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean,
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: trust in physicians is down since 2021,
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: down 14 points,
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: lowest since the mid 90s,
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: while trust in agencies like the CDC and the FDA has dropped even further,
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: about six in 10.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: People still do trust their own doctor more than institutions.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: You've built trust in both ways as a clinician,
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: but as also as a communicator that we all have seen many times,
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: showing up on our TVs during the pandemic and after talking about,
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know, Medicaid cuts and ACA subsidies and what the impacts that will have.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think that erosion in public trust, what does it mean in the exam room?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean for public policy,
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: for the institutions that hopefully someday can get rebuilt in the next couple
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: of years?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then what does that mean one patient at a time as you're taking care of people?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'll lead by saying that I'm wrestling with this and I don't have one solution here.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's a vaccine problem.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I think folks like yourself, myself or colleagues, I have to be clear-eyed about it.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: I do think that there are things that happen in the care of patients across
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: the country when they intersect with our healthcare system that are so frustrating
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: for so long that we are left to hold the water and we are ultimately,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to use the word scapegoated,
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: but we are the easiest to point the finger to that this is so impossible
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: to navigate.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to lay the blame at, if not the insurance company, the doctor.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so in some ways,
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: I do feel like part of that we are a victim to some degree,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: and I want to use that word carefully,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: of people's rightful frustrations with a system that does prioritize profits
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: over access and timely access.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: And yet I don't think we are the source of that whatsoever.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: There are other misaligned incentives in the broader healthcare ecosystem.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: Drug pricing,
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: hospital consolidation,
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: payer incentives that are really driving inefficiencies and patient frustrations.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's not providers.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: And yet I do think sometimes we're left holding the water because we're
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: the human element in the loop.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: So part of it is that I do believe technology,
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: if applied thoughtfully,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: hopefully can be a balm where People will have first pass access to say
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: if they have pink eye or they obviously have the flu and they have
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: a flu positive test at home.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Let's use technology to get them a Tamiflu prescription and not have to go
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: to their PCP and go through a million loops to do something
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: that seemingly should be simple.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: So there are some paper cuts in health care that we need to be able to solve for.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I think this artificial intelligence debate It's not binary.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's not either everything we're going to be replaced in 2030,
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: which I know some people are saying versus some defenders of our profession say,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: no, we have to be in the loop on everything.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think just like with vaccines, it's all or nothing.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: We should be able to have a moderated discussion on everything.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is where we can help rebuild trust.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: We should embrace as clinicians technology where it can improve
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: the patient experience where we don't necessarily always need to be in the loop.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it's obvious and it's addressing an access problem.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think that will help the trust.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I will also say you mentioned it regardless of the survey you look at.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: I like looking at the Annenberg U Penn survey recently.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: They looked at institutions and they looked at providers and providers.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: 86% of those surveyed broad bipartisan group.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: Geographically as well across age groups,
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: 86% said that they trust their human health care provider more than anybody else
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: on all things health information.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think RFK and Oz were below 40%,
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: which I think that should reassure us
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: that most people don't like what they're seeing.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: Most people can see through what's happening and they want a different future.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just worked a couple shifts over the weekend in a small rural hospital
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: and just reminded of the human part of it and the connecting with your patients.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you had to say about technology and AI.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: On our last episode,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: we talked about this and there was a big report
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: of HHS fast tracking AI healthcare technology and being pushed
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: by venture capitalists,
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: this one out in the Bay Area whose son runs an AI healthcare company.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Some of that seems challenging.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like this VC guy was saying, well, we're going to replace all doctors.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be better than doctors.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like,
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: as I was sitting at the bedside of a patient who had very concerning complaints
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: and concerns, but had been to multiple ERs in the past few months.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly,
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: it was about 15 to 20 minutes of just having a nice conversation,
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: a very simple urine test that was normal.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that person was very grateful and seemed happy with her care and happy to go
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: and follow up with their primary doctor.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think AI can do that.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: That 86% number really does reassure me that we have that ability to sit down,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: spend the time, look the person in the eye, answer their questions.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: But then, yeah,
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: I do agree that the nuance and the moderated view, yes,
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: if somebody clearly has pink eye at home or they clearly have the flu and they get
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: a test,
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: it seems crazy they would have to come sit in an ER and wait or go to their doctor
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: and get other people infected.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: It seems really insane.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think those optimizations we should embrace.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there's 280 experiments across the country happening right now,
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: Rob, where there's AI sandboxes in healthcare, what's safe, what's not.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: There's actually,
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: in the absence of federal leadership,
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: because I don't trust anything coming out of any of the health officials,
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: especially,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: at the state level,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: there's a lot of thought going into,
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: does it make sense to automate a Tamiflu prescription for somebody
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: that meets certain criteria virtually?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's see and let's learn.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think as long as we have the humility on all sides to learn, that's important.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: To your conversation with your patient in the ER over the weekend, I mean,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: the conversations I have in my scope of practice,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not purely intensivist,
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: no one would want to outsource that to any sort of technology.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I recently did,
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: for media,
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: we did this segment on AI and healthcare since everybody's now worried about AI
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: and scrutinizing it.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember posting that segment just two days ago on Blue Sky,
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: and there was a lot of angry reflections from people being like,
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: don't even get close to me with that technology,
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: even for perhaps things that could help provide faster care with guardrails.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: There was a backlash against even what I think are sensible approaches of AI in healthcare.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: People want nothing to do with them.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: And certainly technology companies,
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: but even elected officials are underappreciating this moment in my view.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: And either think AI is the solve for everything or have no idea what the pulse
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: of America is when it comes to accepting AI tools in their day-to-day life.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: There is no understanding of it.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we're just beginning to understand it.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like some of our elected officials can't even spell AI.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that seems like a real problem.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Seems like a real problem.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then our president, he thinks it's just about the branding.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think he put a poll out on,
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: should we just name it something else and that's going to
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: fix the problem.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: I saw that today.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's remarkable to me how many people are so desperate to stay in power.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: That have no understanding of any of the things that won't even define their life,
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: but our generation,
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: the next generation's life,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: that they wouldn't step aside and create opportunities for people
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: that are growing up in this world and that better understand or better have a chance
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: to understand what's happening.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: Just the arrogance and the impact of term limits or the lack thereof.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: And we're seeing it play out now.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: People that have no business Trying to arbitrate
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: and disintermediate what makes sense and what doesn't make sense when it comes
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: to this powerful technology for generations of Americans.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Our current makeup of Congress is not qualified to do that by any shot.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like they can read a briefing document and suddenly understand it.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: But to me,
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: this is a moment that calls for term limits if there has ever been one
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: because we need to change the makeup from an age standpoint.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've really enjoyed talking with you.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Again,
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love your take on the technology because I think it's easy to be black and white
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: about these things.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell people all the time in medicine,
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe it's just kind of where your brain goes from doing what you've been doing
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: so long.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Very few things exist in the black and the white, right?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Most everything we do is in that gray area.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an uncomfortable area, I think, for a lot of people.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's an uncomfortable way maybe to look, a lens to look at the world.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I appreciate your take.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate seeing you on TV.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people who are watching and listening do as well.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: And for you joining me here, where can people find you?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, besides just turn around their TV or click one on their computer.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Vin Gupta MD on Twitter and Blue Sky and make an effort to post there regularly
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: on all issues,
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: health care And so,
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: Rob, I should say, well, first of all, thank you for having me.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: Just to say it back,
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_03: I've been watching your work with the committee to protect everything
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: that you guys do at the committee is you keep the lights on.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: And even when it's not an election year,
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: maybe we're not all talking about access and affordability.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: You're thinking about it.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: You're advocating.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're out there doing the hard work.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: And you've been doing it for a really long time.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: I've watched it.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm excited to work more closely with you.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again, everyone.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Dr. Vin Gupta for joining us on Paging America.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're back.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Great conversation, Rob.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else before we go?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, we're just,
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: stay tuned to this channel because we're going to be coming to you with updates on
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: the hearing once Sadie Overton's done and particularly on what level
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: of concern we think Susan Collins has expressed for this nominee.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm going to, Rob,
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to sign off and then I'm going to immediately turn into C-SPAN
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: because that's what my day is going to be like.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get on to C-SPAN.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is written by Chris Savage, Dr.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: Rob Davidson and me, Miles Baker.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Paging America,
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: The Situation Womb and our on-call rapid response segments this week were produced
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: by Peter Ogburn and Chris Savage.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: All shows were edited by Peter Ogburn and April Stewie.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Our music is by Annette Somerset at Duneflower Productions.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if you enjoyed today's show,
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: please subscribe and leave us a rating on YouTube,
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the big active campaign to stop Dr. Heidi Overton, an unqualified nominee for the FDA.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: So physicians, nurses,
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: please check out www.committeetoprotect.org to learn more if you want
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: to get involved and you want to raise your hand and you want to volunteer
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: to help try to stop Dr. Heidi Overton at the FDA.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Rob, as always, it was great talking to you.