Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Reimagining Pediatric Care Through AI and Innovation with Omkar Kulkarni

Transcript

Reimagining Pediatric Care Through AI and Innovation with Omkar Kulkarni · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - Every health system executive right now is being
• 0:04
  - asked to do something that has no useful
• 0:06
  - precedent,
• 0:07
  - make durable technology decisions in an environment that
• 0:10
  - looks meaningfully different every six months.
• 0:13
  - The pace isn't slowing,
• 0:14
  - the vendor landscape isn't getting simpler, and the
• 0:17
  - cost of missteps keeps rising.
• 0:19
  - Becker's eleventh annual IT and Revenue Cycle Conference,
• 0:23
  - The Future of AI and Digital Health, exists
• 0:25
  - for exactly this challenge.
• 0:27
  - Here, you'll find more than 2,500 executive level
• 0:30
  - attendees,
• 0:31
  - 600 plus speakers, and four days of sessions
• 0:34
  - built around the questions leaders are actually wrestling
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  - with.
• 0:37
  - How to scale AI responsibly,
• 0:39
  - how to protect increasingly complex systems,
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  - how to wring more performance out of the
• 0:44
  - revenue cycle, and how to make tech investments
• 0:46
  - that hold up over time.
• 0:48
  - Join us September fourteenth through the seventeenth at
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  - the Hilton Chicago.
• 0:53
  - You can register on our events page at
• 0:55
  - beckershospitalreview.com
• 0:57
  - by clicking on the events tab in the
• 0:59
  - upper right.
• 1:00
  - This is Laura Dierda with the Becker's Healthcare
• 1:03
  - podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by
• 1:05
  - Omkar Kulkarni,
• 1:06
  - vice president and chief innovation and transformation officer
• 1:09
  - at Children's Hospital Los Angeles, as well as
• 1:12
  - founder and managing director at KidsX. Omkar, it's
• 1:14
  - a pleasure to have you on the podcast
• 1:16
  - today. Laura, thanks for having me.
• 1:18
  - Absolutely. Now I'm excited for our conversation because
• 1:21
  - I know we're gonna dig into some of
• 1:22
  - the transformative things you're doing, at Children's Hospital
• 1:25
  - of Los Angeles as well as how you're
• 1:27
  - thinking about the future. But before we dive
• 1:29
  - in, can you tell me a little bit
• 1:30
  - more about yourself as well as the hospital?
• 1:33
  - Yeah. So
• 1:35
  - I run the innovation program. I've been here
• 1:37
  - about eight years. And
• 1:39
  - the way we think about innovation, we are
• 1:41
  - trying to
• 1:42
  - add value to our hospital and health system,
• 1:45
  - whether that's value
• 1:47
  - to our doctors, our nurses, our staff, to
• 1:50
  - our patients, our families, to our community.
• 1:53
  - And and innovation is a way to
• 1:56
  - bring meaningful, quantifiable
• 1:58
  - value,
• 1:59
  - into the organization. So that's that's what I
• 2:01
  - do. CHLA, it's a special place. I've been
• 2:04
  - here eight years. Like I said, it is
• 2:05
  - a top 10 children's hospital. I think we've
• 2:07
  - been ranked in the top 10 honor roll
• 2:10
  - for the last seventeen straight years, which is
• 2:12
  - amazing.
• 2:13
  - Top
• 2:14
  - hospital
• 2:15
  - for many subspecialties.
• 2:17
  - So,
• 2:18
  - you know, for almost anything that you could
• 2:20
  - imagine that your kid could have that would
• 2:21
  - require specialty care, you you'd wanna bring them
• 2:23
  - to CHLA to children's hospital care.
• 2:26
  - It is a it's a special place. We're
• 2:29
  - very busy,
• 2:30
  - over 90,000 emergency room visits every year. I
• 2:32
  - think it's one of the busiest
• 2:34
  - pediatric emergency departments in the country. We see
• 2:37
  - over 750,000
• 2:39
  - patient visits every year
• 2:41
  - across all of our different opportunities, whether that's
• 2:44
  - our surgery centers or our hospital.
• 2:46
  - We've got a really strong research mission, a
• 2:48
  - really strong academic mission. We're a safety net
• 2:51
  - hospital, which we're very proud of because we've
• 2:53
  - got a lot of kids in the LA
• 2:54
  - region that require,
• 2:56
  - care, and we are happy to take care
• 2:58
  - of them regardless of what ZIP code they
• 3:00
  - live in or what their insurance is. And
• 3:01
  - so,
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  - it's a really special place, and I'm I'm
• 3:04
  - blessed to work here.
• 3:06
  - I love that. And, you know, what an
• 3:08
  - important service in,
• 3:10
  - community that you're providing the community now.
• 3:13
  - I'm curious. Let's talk a little bit more
• 3:15
  - about some of the things that are going
• 3:16
  - on within the health care technology space. What
• 3:18
  - do you see as being the most powerful
• 3:20
  - forces shaping digital health and IT at CHLA
• 3:23
  - right now, and how do you anticipate they're
• 3:25
  - gonna evolve in the next year or so?
• 3:28
  - So what's interesting
• 3:29
  - there's an interesting kind of macroeconomic
• 3:32
  - thing happening across the country, and that is
• 3:34
  - that,
• 3:36
  - there's been a lot of consolidation
• 3:37
  - in health systems, adult and pediatrics to surgery,
• 3:40
  - but a lot of consolidation
• 3:42
  - across the board. So there are fewer health
• 3:44
  - systems, but they are taking care of lots
• 3:46
  - of patients.
• 3:47
  - That's one thing that's happening. Another thing that's
• 3:49
  - happening is that
• 3:51
  - the the the reimbursement
• 3:53
  - and payment mechanisms, so public insurance, private insurance,
• 3:57
  - and to a certain degree self pay,
• 3:59
  - those are shifting. Right? So, through HR one
• 4:03
  - and a lot of other
• 4:04
  - external factors,
• 4:06
  - we're looking at a future environment where, you
• 4:09
  - know, health care expenses or health care reimbursement,
• 4:12
  - excuse me, may not grow,
• 4:14
  - as quickly as it has or as fast
• 4:16
  - as it has over the last decade. Right?
• 4:18
  - And so I think that those
• 4:21
  - those pressures are are creating
• 4:23
  - margin pressures for health systems, for CFOs, and
• 4:26
  - people who lead health systems
• 4:28
  - with because you you basically have right cost
• 4:31
  - that continue to rise, but you're you're not
• 4:33
  - seeing revenues kinda keep up with that. And
• 4:35
  - so we're seeing that across the board. And
• 4:37
  - at the same time, you're seeing technology
• 4:40
  - that has the ability
• 4:42
  - to,
• 4:43
  - make us more efficient, more effective,
• 4:45
  - and more
• 4:46
  - productive with our with the people who work
• 4:48
  - here. It allows people to work at the
• 4:50
  - high at the top of their license, kinda
• 4:52
  - what they went to school for, what they're
• 4:53
  - experts in. It's allowing us to kinda use
• 4:56
  - our productive time as well as we can.
• 4:58
  - So I think a lot of these factors
• 5:00
  - are gonna make the next decade incredibly exciting
• 5:02
  - because we've got external pressures that are forcing
• 5:05
  - us to do more with less.
• 5:07
  - There is no shortage of people who need
• 5:09
  - health care. The demand for health care is
• 5:11
  - tremendous, and the access issues are real. But
• 5:13
  - I think technology is gonna be a great
• 5:14
  - enabler to allow us to
• 5:16
  - be more productive, be more effective, and more
• 5:19
  - cost, you know, conscious with our with the
• 5:21
  - resources existing in health care. So I'm excited
• 5:23
  - for the next decade.
• 5:25
  - That's incredible to hear and especially thinking through
• 5:28
  - you know, I I know health care is
• 5:29
  - going through so many challenges right now, but
• 5:31
  - to look at what the technology can do
• 5:34
  - and bring in to support the teams in
• 5:36
  - care delivery,
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  - is really reassuring. And I think, you know,
• 5:40
  - from your perspective looking at, from,
• 5:43
  - your seat, how do you see health care
• 5:45
  - delivery changing and transforming as a result of
• 5:47
  - this technology? I think the possibilities seem almost
• 5:50
  - endless at this moment, but where do you
• 5:52
  - see things, kinda realistically
• 5:54
  - trending over the next couple of years?
• 5:57
  - So the way I see it, regardless of
• 6:00
  - pediatric whether it's pediatric care or adult care,
• 6:04
  - typically,
• 6:05
  - care starts in the home or where people
• 6:08
  - are experiencing symptoms or they're noticing something about
• 6:11
  - their health that's not, you know, the way
• 6:13
  - it should be. Right? And, historically, what you
• 6:15
  - would then do is either you you call
• 6:17
  - a friend or, you know, you talk to
• 6:19
  - your family or you go see your primary
• 6:21
  - care physician or sometimes you go to the
• 6:23
  - emergency room depending on the severity of the
• 6:25
  - symptoms to get your answers, to figure out
• 6:27
  - what you need to do. That's historically been
• 6:29
  - the entry point,
• 6:30
  - because people there there's a huge knowledge gap
• 6:33
  - between
• 6:34
  - the person who doesn't have any clinical knowledge
• 6:36
  - or training or expertise
• 6:38
  - and the information that they need to know
• 6:40
  - to be able to get the those initial
• 6:42
  - answers around, you know, is this thing that
• 6:44
  - I've got a problem? Is this something I
• 6:46
  - should be worried about? And what's the treatment
• 6:48
  - I should be getting? Right? And the Internet
• 6:50
  - definitely helped narrow that gap a little bit,
• 6:52
  - but, but it still required quite a bit
• 6:54
  - a lot of health literacy to be able
• 6:56
  - to really figure out on your own if
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  - you don't have any training what you're supposed
• 7:00
  - to do.
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  - I think that this new you know, it
• 7:04
  - it is. I think the art the generative
• 7:06
  - AI and the world of artificial intelligence that
• 7:08
  - is upon us, and I think the way
• 7:10
  - we will mold it and shape it over
• 7:12
  - the next decade
• 7:14
  - is going to transform that very first part
• 7:16
  - about health care. Right? How do we as
• 7:19
  - consumers, whether we are extremely health literate or
• 7:22
  - whether we are not health literate, how can
• 7:24
  - we get answers to information about our health
• 7:26
  - needs early on so that we can make
• 7:29
  - the best, most cost effective decisions.
• 7:31
  - So that ideally, we can seek the right
• 7:34
  - provider of care when we need it. And
• 7:37
  - if we don't need to be going to
• 7:39
  - see somebody, we can go we can figure
• 7:40
  - out how to self manage our symptoms. Right?
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  - Again, we're not there now, but I'm hoping
• 7:44
  - that's where we can get to so that
• 7:46
  - we are best utilizing the resources that exist
• 7:48
  - in health care for health care and that
• 7:51
  - we're able to see better health outcomes because
• 7:53
  - we are now becoming better
• 7:55
  - consumers
• 7:56
  - of health care. And, ideally, we're improving our
• 7:58
  - literacy through the kind of augmentation of AI
• 8:02
  - that makes us kind of all more health
• 8:04
  - literate by being able to use these tools.
• 8:05
  - So that's my big hope, and I think
• 8:07
  - where we're gonna see a lot of shift,
• 8:08
  - which is the kinda first part of that,
• 8:11
  - health care curve. There'll be a tremendous amount
• 8:13
  - that also happens afterward
• 8:15
  - in terms of treatment, diagnostics,
• 8:17
  - follow-up, etcetera. But I think the the first
• 8:19
  - most immediate thing, which you're already seeing, if
• 8:21
  - you think about how all the data about
• 8:23
  - people that are using CHAT GPT and Gemini
• 8:25
  - and Claude to ask questions about their own
• 8:28
  - health care, that's gonna continue over time.
• 8:32
  - I love that. Thank you so much for
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  - digging into that care journey and the the
• 8:36
  - potential and possibilities with AI and generative AI.
• 8:39
  - I think, you know, it it's really cool
• 8:41
  - to think about where you we can go
• 8:43
  - and get in the health care delivery space
• 8:45
  - and then how, you know, patients as well
• 8:47
  - as clinicians can have a better experience overall.
• 8:51
  - Now if we're taking it back to CHLA,
• 8:53
  - can you tell us about a big project
• 8:55
  - or a big swing that you took in
• 8:56
  - the last year that paid off? What did
• 8:58
  - you do, and what were the results?
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  - So
• 9:02
  - our hospital
• 9:03
  - has done
• 9:04
  - so much for so many patients over such
• 9:07
  - a long period of time.
• 9:09
  - And traditionally, that care has come either in
• 9:12
  - the walls of the hospital
• 9:13
  - or, you know, in the moments immediately before
• 9:16
  - or after. But we have not historically had
• 9:18
  - infrastructure to support
• 9:20
  - the time in between, that space between
• 9:23
  - when a patient comes in for a procedure
• 9:25
  - or they're in the hospital for an inpatient
• 9:27
  - stay or the emergency department, etcetera. That remote
• 9:30
  - patient management that is required
• 9:32
  - to
• 9:33
  - be able to engage with patients
• 9:36
  - bidirectionally
• 9:36
  - to be able to, you know, make sure
• 9:38
  - they're doing okay when they're at home is
• 9:40
  - really important as we think about care model
• 9:42
  - innovation, as we think about care delivery. So
• 9:44
  - one of the big swings we took this
• 9:45
  - year,
• 9:46
  - is we finally,
• 9:48
  - you know, built both the technology and the
• 9:50
  - the clinical infrastructure
• 9:51
  - to support,
• 9:53
  - remote patient management, specifically with our our heart
• 9:56
  - institute, one of the pop really vulnerable populations
• 9:58
  - within our cardiac patients.
• 10:01
  - And that started the process of now a
• 10:03
  - bunch of other clinical specialties saying, oh my
• 10:05
  - gosh. This would be amazing for us to
• 10:06
  - be able to do as well. So now
• 10:07
  - we have a a whole sequence of different
• 10:09
  - folks that are thinking about how we can
• 10:11
  - engage with patients after they leave the hospital,
• 10:14
  - in between procedures, after a surgery.
• 10:17
  - And so we've now opened the door in
• 10:19
  - a really great way at our hospital to
• 10:20
  - think about how we take care of patients
• 10:23
  - in between their visits.
• 10:25
  - That's really cool to hear and, it definitely
• 10:27
  - makes a lot of sense to have more
• 10:30
  - of an infrastructure built around that and the
• 10:32
  - technology,
• 10:33
  - now to support what you're doing. I mean,
• 10:35
  - I think this dovetails nicely into everything, you
• 10:38
  - know, you were mentioning in terms of the
• 10:39
  - optimized care journey in in the way you
• 10:41
  - interact with patients. So I'm curious,
• 10:44
  - as you've been able to build out this
• 10:46
  - infrastructure supporting more remote patient management, how has
• 10:49
  - the adoption been both on the patient side
• 10:52
  - as well as the clinical side? Has there
• 10:53
  - been anything that you've had to adjust or
• 10:56
  - or change since you started the process?
• 11:00
  - I mean, it's it's a really smart question.
• 11:02
  - Right? So we wanna make sure that we
• 11:04
  - are properly,
• 11:06
  - so for making sure patients know what to
• 11:10
  - expect in terms of what this remote management's
• 11:13
  - gonna look like is key. We wanna know
• 11:15
  - we want them to know
• 11:16
  - what it is and also what it is
• 11:18
  - not. Right? So we wanna make sure we
• 11:19
  - set the right expectations. So one of the
• 11:21
  - things we we do is before these these
• 11:23
  - kiddos leave the hospital,
• 11:25
  - we talk to them about what what to
• 11:26
  - expect in terms of the the engagement we're
• 11:29
  - gonna have with them after they leave.
• 11:32
  - For our patients that are hospitalized and they
• 11:34
  - they're discharged, we contact them after they leave
• 11:37
  - the hospital to check-in on them to see
• 11:39
  - how they're doing.
• 11:40
  - But what we are doing is we're we're
• 11:42
  - giving them a heads up that we're gonna
• 11:44
  - contact them
• 11:45
  - so that they answer the phone or, you
• 11:47
  - know, answer
• 11:48
  - a text message from us after they leave
• 11:50
  - just so they're aware that we're gonna contact
• 11:52
  - them. So a lot of that that adoption
• 11:54
  - curve is based on setting the right expectations
• 11:56
  - upfront.
• 11:57
  - So they know that this is what this
• 11:59
  - is here for. But if you have a
• 12:01
  - real emergency, you need to you need to
• 12:02
  - go, you know, to the emergency room because
• 12:04
  - these are really sick kids. Some of these
• 12:06
  - kids are really sick, and we wanna make
• 12:07
  - sure that
• 12:08
  - we set the right expectation
• 12:10
  - or for the parents around what this this
• 12:14
  - management's going to look like. Because we're not
• 12:15
  - monitoring. This is not remote patient monitoring. This
• 12:18
  - is a way for us to remotely engage
• 12:19
  - with patients post post visit.
• 12:23
  - Got it. That makes a lot of sense
• 12:24
  - to you. It was a really important clarification
• 12:26
  - there, so that everybody's on the same page
• 12:28
  - and then can be as successful as possible
• 12:31
  - with the the process.
• 12:34
  - Now
• 12:34
  - you've got those things running and in place,
• 12:38
  - to extend the the care beyond the four
• 12:40
  - walls of the hospital. Now what's the next
• 12:42
  - most important problem that you're trying to solve
• 12:44
  - with technology and AI?
• 12:47
  - So
• 12:48
  - we're really we wanna make sure that
• 12:51
  - that there are lots of kids who need
• 12:54
  - our services in LA and Southern California.
• 12:57
  - And and often they wait a long time
• 12:59
  - for those services, and we wanna make sure
• 13:01
  - they're seen as as quickly as possible.
• 13:04
  - And we've realized
• 13:05
  - that when we look at whether it's our,
• 13:07
  - you know, our operating room, our infusion center,
• 13:09
  - or even our ambulatory clinics,
• 13:11
  - that we can take advantage of AI
• 13:14
  - to look at you know, let's say there's
• 13:16
  - a cancellation in a clinic.
• 13:18
  - Somebody cancels their appointment. They don't come or
• 13:20
  - the you know, they cancel a couple days
• 13:22
  - before their visit. Now there's an open slot
• 13:23
  - there. How can we use AI
• 13:25
  - to look at our wait list and figure
• 13:27
  - out how to put somebody, you know, who's
• 13:29
  - waiting for an appointment, move them allow them
• 13:32
  - to come earlier so they can be seen
• 13:33
  - sooner so their kid can start getting diagnosed
• 13:36
  - and treated sooner if if applicable.
• 13:38
  - Similarly, with our, you know, our infusion center,
• 13:41
  - how we schedule those kids based on acuity,
• 13:44
  - based on,
• 13:46
  - complexity of their care, based on a variety
• 13:48
  - of other factors about them can help us
• 13:50
  - maximize
• 13:51
  - how many kids we can see
• 13:53
  - in in our infusion center. Right? And similarly,
• 13:56
  - we're looking at our our operating room and
• 13:58
  - our blocks there to figure out how we
• 13:59
  - can use data and and AI to maximize,
• 14:03
  - our ability to take care of patients in
• 14:04
  - our in our operative spaces. So the use
• 14:07
  - of AI to maximize capacity so that we
• 14:10
  - can take care of more kids and, you
• 14:12
  - know, get them the care they need sooner
• 14:14
  - and faster
• 14:15
  - is a huge important project for us over
• 14:18
  - the next not only year, but I'd say
• 14:19
  - next couple of years. And I think it
• 14:21
  - it speaks to both the huge demand there
• 14:24
  - is for, you know, services in our region,
• 14:27
  - but also how AI can be a great
• 14:29
  - enabler to make sure that we can maximize
• 14:32
  - the resources we have, which are limited,
• 14:34
  - in terms of taking care of these kids.
• 14:37
  - Got it. That makes a lot of sense.
• 14:38
  - And, you know, it it just is so
• 14:40
  - critical to have that
• 14:42
  - connectivity and ability to take care of the
• 14:44
  - demand. And I think what we're hearing from
• 14:46
  - a lot of health care leaders is that
• 14:49
  - demand is outpacing supply in many respects or
• 14:52
  - or ability to,
• 14:53
  - have the resources to care for everyone in
• 14:55
  - the community. So being
• 14:58
  - boosted with the technology and figuring out ways
• 15:00
  - to more smartly connect and efficiently provide that
• 15:02
  - care, it seems like will be very critical
• 15:05
  - in the future.
• 15:07
  - Yeah. I think it's gonna be a a
• 15:08
  - really important element around the value that AI
• 15:11
  - produces. Right? I mean, I I like to
• 15:13
  - remind folks that AI is not free.
• 15:16
  - There is a cost associated with both utilizing
• 15:19
  - as well as implementing and monitoring and maintaining
• 15:21
  - artificial intelligence in a health system. And so
• 15:24
  - it's gotta come with a value that there's
• 15:26
  - a cost and it's gotta have a benefit.
• 15:27
  - And I think the benefit comes in the
• 15:29
  - form, in this instance, of being able to
• 15:31
  - take care of more kids with the same
• 15:32
  - amount of resources so that we can, you
• 15:34
  - know, improve access in our communities.
• 15:37
  - Absolutely. That makes a ton of sense. Now
• 15:39
  - before we wrap up, I just have one
• 15:40
  - more question. What are you most curious about
• 15:43
  - for the future?
• 15:44
  - So I was in a meeting yesterday where
• 15:46
  - we were talking about this, and and,
• 15:48
  - this this is definitely something I'm curious about.
• 15:51
  - I'm curious
• 15:53
  - what, you know, the future workforce looks like,
• 15:55
  - let's say, ten years from now in a
• 15:57
  - hospital or a health system.
• 15:59
  - There will be there will be new jobs
• 16:01
  - that don't exist today. New job titles, new
• 16:04
  - job codes,
• 16:05
  - job functions that don't exist today because of
• 16:07
  - AI and new technology. There will be jobs
• 16:07
  - that exist today that that change in terms
• 16:08
  - of what's
• 16:09
  - There
• 16:11
  - will be jobs that exist today that that
• 16:13
  - change in terms of what they do because
• 16:14
  - we can you know, those same jobs can
• 16:16
  - be augmented by automation.
• 16:18
  - And there'll be many, many jobs in health
• 16:20
  - care that I'm sure will, you know, remain
• 16:22
  - largely similar because,
• 16:24
  - you know, they require a lot of work
• 16:26
  - that, you know, just generally untouched by what
• 16:29
  - is done by AI. So I'm really curious
• 16:31
  - what the the future of the,
• 16:34
  - health care workforce looks like and more importantly,
• 16:36
  - how we
• 16:37
  - as a kinda country or
• 16:40
  - society
• 16:41
  - train quickly and rapidly train people
• 16:44
  - for those new jobs.
• 16:46
  - Historically, the path and time frame by which
• 16:49
  - you adjust
• 16:51
  - training
• 16:52
  - and teaching and education,
• 16:54
  - you know, thinking all the way back to,
• 16:55
  - like, high school and all the way to
• 16:57
  - college and it's it takes a while. But
• 16:59
  - AI is moving so quickly and the use
• 17:01
  - cases are being deployed and tested and monitored
• 17:04
  - and it built so quickly
• 17:06
  - that it it just as a industry,
• 17:09
  - how and as a society, how we train
• 17:12
  - the next,
• 17:13
  - you know, generation of jobs
• 17:15
  - or the the the the workforce of the
• 17:17
  - future
• 17:18
  - and how we evolve quickly both both in
• 17:20
  - our academic institutions
• 17:22
  - and our, you know,
• 17:24
  - elementary, middle, and high schools. All of the
• 17:26
  - whole gamut is gonna be really interesting and
• 17:28
  - I'm really curious about. So excited to see
• 17:30
  - how it it goes, excited to be part
• 17:32
  - of that journey.
• 17:33
  - And,
• 17:34
  - I I do think that
• 17:36
  - we will see a tremendous amount of benefit
• 17:38
  - for it over time,
• 17:40
  - but it needs to be planned for and
• 17:42
  - needs to be managed in a very collaborative
• 17:45
  - way, not just within a health system, but
• 17:47
  - with all of our partners in the community.
• 17:50
  - Absolutely. That makes a ton of sense. You
• 17:52
  - know, it's exciting and nerve wracking and,
• 17:54
  - you know, very much transformative all in one.
• 17:57
  - Omkar, thank you so much for joining us
• 17:59
  - on the podcast today. This has been a
• 18:00
  - a really fun and inspiring conversation. I look
• 18:03
  - forward to seeing you in September. I know
• 18:05
  - you'll be speaking at our health IT and
• 18:07
  - revenue cycle conference,
• 18:08
  - and, you know, digging deeper into many of
• 18:11
  - the themes we talked about today. So I'm
• 18:13
  - looking forward to that, and,
• 18:15
  - hopefully, we'll be able to spend some time
• 18:17
  - catching up there too.
• 18:18
  - Sounds good, Laura. Looking forward to seeing you
• 18:20
  - there.