Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Russ on Ego, Independence, Living in the Moment, New Movie + More

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INTERVIEW: Russ on Ego, Independence, Living in the Moment, New Movie + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hold up.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Breakfast Club. Y'all finished or y'all done?
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, The Breakfast Club.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: DJ Envy, Just Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God. Envy is on vacation,
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: but LL Cool Bay is here, Lauren LaRosa, and we
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: got a special guest, man. You know him as one
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: of the biggest independent artists out, if not the biggest,
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: but now he's about to be a movie star.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: Come on.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Russ, what's up, my brother? What up, man? You know,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: it's funny.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: You've spent like a whole career- building a system where
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: you're the boss? So what's it like walking on a
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: movie set where nobody gives a damn that you rushed? Okay,
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: you got a director, you got to hurry up and wait,
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: you got to hit line, somebody else wrote it, you
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: got to surrender complete control.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: You know, surprisingly, it was one of the most just
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: fulfilling experiences because of all those things you said, like,
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: it wasn't all on me.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: I got to finally sort of just show up on
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: X marks the spot and just do your part. And
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: everyone else is handling like the logistics. And it was nice, man.
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: And just to be part of a community, it, it
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: gave me such a contrast with my music career. And
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: it made me realize how lonely my music career has been. Um,
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: and just how like isolated I've been in my music career.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: And it was, man, I was sending voice memos at
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: the end of it, like bawling my eyes out to
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: the director and the cast. Some people responded, some people
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: did not. That's interesting.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: You said you felt isolated.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: As an artist.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you got to think, right? It's like I
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: go downstairs in my house, in my studio, and sit
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: there by myself and make a lot of songs, right?
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: And it's awesome and I love it. Granted, like earlier on,
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: I was maybe, you know, in the studio with more
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: people because my boy Boogus was in his house. But
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: for the most part, Part of the last five, six
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: years has just been me, Dolo, in the basement in
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: the studio, and it's been great. But going on a
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: movie set, and it's 100 people, and we're all here
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: to do this one thing.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Sense of community.
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was so incredible, because you know you're not
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: by yourself in this thing. It's not just you going
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: through what you're going through. You guys are all kind
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: of going through the same, quote, unquote, It was just
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: so beautiful.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of support.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And I was like, wow, I need to create
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: this in my music career.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: I wonder if you being independent caused that. Because you
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: see a lot of these guys that signed to majors,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: it seems like it's a lot of camaraderie. Maybe because
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: you're independent, they're like, you know what, let's keep him
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: over there.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: No, it was personal choice.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was user error.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: You just don't like the motherfucker.
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: Well, no, it was just like, fuck all y'all. No,
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: it was just, what it was was, well, I don't
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: need anyone to make a song, so I'll just make
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: the songs by myself. You know what I mean? I
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: didn't understand the value, really, of collaboration, I guess, in
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: a sense. It's not that I haven't collaborated with people,
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: but a studio session, to me, is so spiritual and
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: private and vulnerable that I don't want people around. don't
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: watch me while I'm recording. Like, beat it. You know
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: what I mean? So for me, that was kind of
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: the mindset. But after doing the movie, I'm way more
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: open to, you know, getting in the studio with people
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: and just having fun doing and trying to make one
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: thing with a bunch of people.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Now, do you know people like that?
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: Other people like yourself that has to, like where, how
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: you describe the creative process of making music, right?
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: It's so spiritual. It's like, you have to allow yourself
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to be vulnerable. Like, do you know other people like that?
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: That, No, it's a shame. I feel like artists, we
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: just don't talk to each other. Maybe I don't talk
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: to people.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: We had an artist come up here. I just want some.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Friends, man.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: How do you make friends? How does one make friends
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: as an adult?
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 3:36
  Speaker 6: He's been around people that, like, it fills you up
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: a bit. But there's nobody you watch right now, just their, like,
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: creative process and how they roll out their stuff.
• 3:45
  Speaker 7: And you're like, yo, like. I see that. Like, I
• 3:47
  Speaker 7: fuck with it.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Well, like, rollouts, yeah. But as far as, like, their...
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: I feel like we don't get that much insight anymore as, like,
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: studio sessions. I don't know. Growing up, I used to
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: always watch, like, you know, this artist in the studio.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Like, vlogs and stuff.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like, artists would put out documentaries of the making
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: of their album in the studio. I feel like we
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: don't get that anymore. So I don't know what people's
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: process really is, you know? And I feel like people
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: are private and protective over their process, which is understandable, but.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: It's different.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: It's definitely different these days.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: That's interesting because I feel like we see so much
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: of the process just on social media. I feel like
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: everything is part of the process.
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, but if you think about it, a lot
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: of that is like they're by themselves in the room.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: They're sitting there with the guitar showing the process of
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: being isolated in their bedroom writing a song.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, again, I think earlier on in my career
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: when it was like, you know, let's get hammered in
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: the studio and smoke weed and that was easier to
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: be around people in the studio because you're lowering your
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: inhibitions kind of. But now it's like, I try to
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: be sober in the studio. So with that, it's a
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: little bit more uncomfortable if there was people there. Because like,
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: this is my place to get weird and confront whatever's
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: going on internally. You know what I mean? So like,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: I don't need judgy eyes. You know what I mean? Like,
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: get out of here.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Are you an introvert? Would you say?
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: I think I'm a extroverted introvert. You know what I mean? Yep.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: That's me.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. For sure.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: It's tough. Like I like people, but then.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I'm with you.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Like I need an hour and then I'm out,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Why the name The Elephant and The Rider?
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: So it comes from this psychology term, The Elephant and
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: The Rider. I got introduced to it via therapy. And
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you guys are familiar with it,
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: but it's incredible, man. It just like kind of just
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: explains the relationship between your. conscious system, which is the rider,
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: kind of like your brain, and then your automatic system,
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: the elephant.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Is that when they chained the elephant? When the elephant
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: was chained? I don't know.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: I don't think so.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, come on.
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah. But it's basically like the world teaches the elephant,
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: the elephant adapts, and then the rider inherits the consequences.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? So for me... An example
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: is like, okay, well, earlier on in my childhood, my
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: system learned to like scan for threats and watch everything
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: super closely. And, you know, because it's like, we need
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: to be aware of any trouble that's on the way
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: in order to feel safe. But like 30 years later,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: the rider in my adult brain is like, why can't
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: you relax? And the elephant is like, because I'm doing
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: the job that you needed me to do all those
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: years ago. So it's like the goal to me is integration.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: It's not like control. It's not, you know, your brain
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: or the rider telling the elephant, do as I say.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: It's more so understanding like, okay, what is happening right now?
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: And is this from before or is it right now?
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? If what I'm feeling is
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: actually just decades old of information, then I need to
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: understand that instead of like, running around in present day time,
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: trying to make sense of what my body's feeling when
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: my body's really reacting to something from 30 years ago.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: It's thinking that that's happening right now.
• 7:12
  Speaker 7: It's like how people deal with traumatic experiences.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's somatic. It's in your body.
• 7:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 7:16
  Speaker 6: It's interesting to hear you say that because I've watched
• 7:18
  Speaker 6: a lot of your interviews where you talk about like
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: your process with music and just throwing things out there
• 7:21
  Speaker 6: and almost not needing approval by people, just letting things
• 7:24
  Speaker 6: just do what it wants to do. It sounds like
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: you're almost working backwards from that now and kind of
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: releasing control a little bit. Even though you've always seemed
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: a little free, this seems like a different era of
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: like you're kind of open a little bit more.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: Well, I think I'm confronting things I never was willing
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: to confront. And I think, to be honest, I think
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: as much as I wanted to believe I wasn't chasing
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: the approval of people, I was. I kind of grew
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: up with my dad being the authority, and then I
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: outsourced the authority to the public.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, okay.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I could see that.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: Like, I replaced my dad with the public.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You cared about what your dad thought.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Now you care about what the public thinks.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: Well, and I was scared of getting in trouble with
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: my dad. Scared of being, you know, making a mistake
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: to my dad. Now I'm scared of making a mistake.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: To the public and getting in trouble by the public.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: It's like I've made the public the authority, which makes
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: sense because as a musician, you do, unfortunately, from an
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: economic standpoint, live and die by do people like you
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: or not.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, validation.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? I've always said with sports,
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: it's so finite. It's like you can hate that NBA player,
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: but if he averages 20 and 10, it doesn't matter.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: He's still going to.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: He's still going to get a job. You know what
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: I mean? You're not affecting his finances. But as a
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: musician or public figure, it's like if the public says
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: we don't like you, it kind of gets a little sketchy.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: I want to go back to the parable you were
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: talking about, the elephant and the rider, because there was
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: another one called The Elephant and the Stake.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: Interesting.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: And it was a baby elephant, and the baby elephant
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: was tied to a heavy stake with a very strong chain, right?
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: And it would struggle to escape.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: But, you know, it's too weak because it's a baby elephant,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: so eventually it just gives up. And then as the
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: animal grew to an adult, they switched the chain with
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: just like this little.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Fragile rope and a stake.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: And it wouldn't move.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: The elephant never tried to.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Pull away because mentally it was thinking about its past failures,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: and it just thought escape was impossible.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Wow. Wow.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: That's real. Maybe I should change the title.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: No, I like Elephant in the Rye.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: That one's good.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: What did acting expose that music allowed you to hide?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: Acting requires you to have immediate access to things that
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: you're not immediately feeling. You know what I mean?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: With music, I'm only going to record this moment emotional
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: song because I'm experiencing these emotions right now. So I'm...
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: not like trying to perform it. Acting is like be
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: sad now. It's like, you know, so that was, it
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: was a different level. To answer your question, it required
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: me to have more empathy because I had to have
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: empathy for what the character was going through. It didn't
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: matter if I, Russell Vitale was scared in the moment.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: It's like, the character is. And how can you empathize
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: with where the character is in his story and all that? So,
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: all the acting classes I was taking, they were just
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: emphasizing empathy as a huge, huge part of it.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I saw the movie a long time ago.
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah?
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Like, last year sometime.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: For real? Oh, so you didn't see it with all
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: of its, like, sound and everything.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't even know what cut I saw. But
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: I remember your character was viewed as a troublemaker. And
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: people thought he was the one he was the primary
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: suspect when shit started going wrong. And it just made
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: me think, have you ever felt like people decided who
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Russ was before actually getting to know you?
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: But that comes with the territory. You know what I mean?
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: That's also like, I have to take some accountability for that.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: You know, it's like, if you want to publicly, you know,
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: make these bold decisions, stances and just you know when
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: you put yourself out there you have to be prepared
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: for some people to be like i don't like it
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: i don't like this you know i mean i don't
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: like your voice i don't like your body language i
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: don't like anything so it is what it is you.
• 11:21
  Speaker 7: Know i think.
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: You being the rage against the machine guy and then
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: hearing you right now i think any human can understand
• 11:31
  Speaker 6: where you're where you were coming from and where you're
• 11:33
  Speaker 6: arriving right now though And I saw you tweet that, like,
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: you're trying to be more vulnerable with this project.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: And I think that this is, like, a good side
• 11:39
  Speaker 6: for people to see because when I did listen to
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: you speak before, I always felt like your experience was, like,
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: really jaded.
• 11:45
  Speaker 7: But I didn't know you, though.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: I was just like, yo, he been real hurt. Somebody
• 11:48
  Speaker 7: effed him over. But he makes good music and he
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: has fans, so he gonna be fine.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: But it did seem like you were always, like, upset at, like,
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: what was happening to you. Like, you weren't successful in
• 11:58
  Speaker 6: your own right, but you were.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a good point. Yeah, I was
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: upset that I wasn't getting applauded the way I thought
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: I deserved to be applauded. But that's because my own
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: internal applause was not loud enough. You know what I mean?
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: I couldn't hear myself cheering for me. I just heard,
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: you know, the lack of applause.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: And it's like, have you taken a second to clap
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: for yourself at all? Or are you just focused on
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: who's not clapping for you?
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: That early on was what I was focused on. Cause
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: I think I had a very like rigid idea of
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: how I wanted my career to go and look like
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: and all these things. And, you know, naturally it's not
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: going to go the exact way you see it. And
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: then when it, when it's not going exactly how you
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: think and you feel like, you know, Oh, anything I
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: think though comes true. My mind is so powerful and I,
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: but why isn't it going the way I want? You
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: start There really just begins to be just this massive
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: conflict internally and externally.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: At what point does independence become ego? Meaning like, you know,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: the I can do everything myself mentality. Does that ever
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: prevent you from accepting help that could probably take you further?
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Because I'm thinking about that because what you're saying about
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: your experience on the movie set.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think independence becomes ego when you are not
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: honest with what you can actually manage. You know what
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: I mean? I think a lot of people, like they
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: look at independence and they're, they don't understand that. It's like, okay,
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: well you're running the label now. You know what I mean?
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: Like I run my label. It's just me though. You
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: know what I mean? But for example, it's like, are
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: you prepared to tell the artists you that like you're
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: spending too much money? You know what I mean? I
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: got to have those talks with myself of like, you're
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: over budget. But then artist me is like, you don't
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: get the vision.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Like, it's about the art. I don't care if it's
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: making money. So you got to be honest with yourself.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: And a lot of people are not honest with themselves.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: They're not actually willing to put in that kind of work, which, again,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: I don't knock anyone for not wanting to be independent
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: because it comes with having to run your own label.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: even if you're the only artist. So that's a lot of,
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: like some people, it's just not for them. So I
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: was never, you know, and I was never like anti-labels.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: I partnered with Columbia. I'm anti-bad deals. I'm anti-exploitative deals.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: I'm not anti-partnerships, you know, so.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Because at some point you got to look at it
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: like it's a business you're trying to scale, right?
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think the reason why, you know, I
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: partnered with them, the landscape was way different. It was
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: 2016 and I was like, I need to get on radio.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: And that was like, you know, That was still a
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: thing back then. I know it still is now, but
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: it was much more weighed back then. It was just
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: heavier back then. And after three, four years of it,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: I was like, well, you guys aren't doing anything for
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: me that I can't do for myself. That's why I left.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: But I made a conscious decision, and I knew what
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: needed to be done in order to just keep it
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: going the same way it was going. It's not like, oh,
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: once I left the label, I didn't get on radio.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: Again, but it's like you have to be prepared to
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: do all the work that they were doing.
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: I saw your interview you did with Daniel Wall and
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: you talked about all the money that you spent on
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: music videos.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: And just in general on music.
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: So at what point... Is that still with the budget?
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: It's like hundreds of thousands of dollars per video.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: There is no budget. That's my issue. It's because I'm
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: the artist and I'm like, there's no budget because I
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: want to make what I want to make. But then...
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: label me has to step in at some point and
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: be like i think i'm spending too much money but
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: i never have those honest conversations like very rarely do
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: i have the honest conversation with myself of like because
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: i always think yeah but if i can afford it
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: i should and that's you know i've had to learn
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: from my business manager like there's a difference between can
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: i afford it and should i afford it you know
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: what i mean like i can afford everything i'm doing
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: should i though One of the.
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: Figures was like $ 100, 000, $ 200, 000 or something like that on
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: the music video that.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: You really believed in. I've done that a bunch.
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: And that wasn't even a song that took off from
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: the project.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: No, not at all. Yeah. I had a cool idea
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: I wanted to do.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: No, that's all right.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: But again, I remember being on Columbia and having those
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: same kind of ideas and being like, I want to
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: shoot a video to this song off the album, song
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: number eight, that nobody, it's just my favorite. And they're like, no,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: we're working this one. And I would stomp my feet,
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: but it's like they had a point. Like, this one's
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: making money. This is the fan favorite. We're doing this one.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: We don't care what you're saying. But for me, I'm like,
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: but I'm the artist. I want this one to get
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: a spotlight. You know, so being independent now, I can
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: spotlight what I want to spotlight and also spotlight the
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: ones that are obviously the fan favorite. So I get
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: to do both. It's just, again, should I do both?
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: Should I shine the light on the song that nobody's
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: really paying attention to? And obviously they're as an audience,
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: they haven't elected this one as the one. Should I
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: just shine the light on the one that they're all
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: streaming the most? But again, that is the freedom you
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: get being independent, but that's also freedom is the blessing
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: and the curse of being independent. Having nobody to tell
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: me what to do is the Good thing, and it's
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: the bad thing, because sometimes you need somebody being like,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: you shouldn't spend that fucking money.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Even the boss needs people around him to keep them
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: in line.
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: For sure. I'm at this point in my life now
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: where I'm actively telling people around me, I want you
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: to tell me what to do. I'm going to go
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: with what I want, but you're here because I respect
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: your opinion and your taste and your ideas, and you
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: have to challenge me.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: And you may see something that I don't see.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: 100%.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: Give me direction, give me guidance, and I'll take the path.
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: But see, I think differently because you know you wanted
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: to shoot the video to a song that may not
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: necessarily be everybody's favorite, but sometimes a visual will bring
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: it to life and make people like, oh damn. That's
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: what happens when I listen to like Joyner Lucas. I
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: won't like a song or whatever until he makes a
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: visual to it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Then I'm like, oh damn, it's hard. Now I'm listening
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to it.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: There's artists like that where once you see the video,
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: you're like, oh, I get it.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: So I'm the other way around, but I get it.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It's just, I've done it so many times where
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: I've thrown 160 grand or 200 grand at a music
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: video and it doesn't do anything for the song. And
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: it's like, I get it. People listening are going to
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: be like, well, it's just about the art though. It's like, Yeah,
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: but when you're spending your own money, it kind of
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: has to be a little bit about where's the ROI here?
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: It can't just keep being like, well, but at least
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: I love what I made.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: So what's something you've learned about independence that contradicts everything
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: you've preached in the past?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Nothing.
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: No, I mean, outside of what I said at the beginning,
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: which is I think maybe earlier on in my career
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: and times throughout even recent memory that I've maybe come
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: off like you should be independent. And that was never
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: really the full intention. Cause it's nuanced again. It's like,
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: you should be independent if you're prepared to do all
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: the work that comes with it. And a lot of
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: times I was kind of talking to my peers with that.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Like I've talked to Wale a bunch about going independent and,
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: you know, French Montana, I helped him get his situation
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: where he's at now. It's like, I was more so
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: talking to my peers because I'm like, I know y'all
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: have the money to do it. That's really where I
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: was coming from. I was on some like, look, we
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: have the money. now to go independent and still be
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: able to put the song on radio and work it
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: the way it needs to be worked.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: That's kind of who I was talking to. A lot
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: of times, I think it was probably our last conversation,
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: people were like, well, easy for you to say you
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: have the money it's like yeah like if it doesn't
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: apply to you it doesn't apply to you you know what.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah like even how you broke down like
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: how much Drake would make if.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: He were to go yeah yeah yeah independent right yeah
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: but again it's like it is nice just kind of
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: you just go to the studio and then everybody else
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: handles everything else.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: What shocked you I'm.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: Going back to don't move what shocked you the most
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: about yourself in this.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: Role I went in there so nervous So nervous. That
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: wasn't what shocked me. But because I was so nervous,
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: I didn't think I was going to do that great.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: And as we kept filming, I felt like I did
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: pretty well, especially there was just, there was moments on
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: set where I was like, I know I killed that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: You just felt it. And I remember just being so
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: nervous and talking with my therapist about it. And I
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: would like, this is what I do. I don't know
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: if anyone else does this, but. I would oscillate between
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: two extremes of I have to be perfect and kill it.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: And like, oh my God, and start to spiral. And
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: then why do I even care about this anyway? You
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: know what I mean?
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: It's like, how about the middle?
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: My daddy used to always say to me growing up,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: you're never as good as they are. You're never as
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: good as they say you are. And you're never as
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: bad as they say you are.
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: And that's always kept me in that gray area. I
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: can't operate with extremes.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: You know what helped me? So going into it, my
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: therapist was like, how about going into it as a beginner?
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: The truth.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, I didn't realize that that
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: was accessible.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: Because it was like, oh, wow. They're not expecting me
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: to come on set and be Brad Pitt. They know
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: this is my first role, but I'm going in there
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: with those expectations of myself just because of who I
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: am and how I'm wired. But when I walked in
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: as like, okay, I am a beginner. ask questions, own
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: it and do your best every time and take it
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: serious and honor the opportunity. Meaning take the acting classes,
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: stay reading the script. Don't mess your lines up. And like,
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: I was dialed in. I was super, super dialed in.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: I took it serious. I honored the craft of it
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: and the respect of it. And I didn't want to
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: like be the guy there who's just trying to wing it.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: And like, of course you're winging it because you're not
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: even really an actor. I was like, no, I really
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: took it serious. But I think going into it with
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: that beginner mindset allowed me to be a sponge and
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: it also allowed me to, you know, a little bit
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: more liberty to make mistakes.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: I will say though, you're not Brad Pitt, but you
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: are a draw for this movie.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Like when they asked me to watch it, it's like
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Russ is in it. And T-Pain.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: So I was like, okay, I'll watch it now. Crazy.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Crazy. You know what I'm saying?
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: So there is some type of pressure.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: T-Pain was so good. That was the first scene we filmed.
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: I was like, you're so.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Good at this.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: This is crazy. I wasn't working with him.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: He's so cool. T-Pain is such a legend.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: That's dope.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: He's so animated, too.
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: I know his energy was just so bubbly, charming, funny.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: He's a legend.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And it's funny.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: The movie is interesting, too, because your whole career philosophy
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: is keep it moving, right?
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Don't stop.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: But in this movie- the monster literally hunts you by vibration.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: That's why it's called don't move. So have you reached
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: a point in life where you've realized that sometimes the
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: smartest thing to do is to be still?
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It's just a matter of like, can I do
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: it though? You know, I think I keep my feet
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: moving as a way to distract me from dealing with
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: what's going on internally.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Ooh, they always say staying busy is a response to trauma.
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, you know what's so funny? So brutal. That's
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: so true. I feel like I've tried to regulate the
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: anxiety in my body via productivity.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: That's been my meditation.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: We understand. Yeah.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: It doesn't work.
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: That's crazy because I feel like the more you're moving,
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: the more there's moving variables which would then cause more anxiety.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: It just distracts my anxiety. It gives my brain something
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: to latch on to. Filling up my calendar and to-do
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: list externally allows me to ignore what's going on internally.
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: You know, it's like a distraction for a second. And
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: I just think moving that much and being that active
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: and always trying to like, all right, well, what's next?
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: What should we do? We should do this, this idea,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: this idea. It's just, it's because there's so much energy
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: in my body that hasn't been regulated that if I
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: can just get it out that way, maybe I can
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: finally feel relaxed and at ease. But no matter where
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: you go, there you are.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: That's why COVID was so tough for a lot of people,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: because that was the first time a lot of people
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: had to just sit.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: And be still.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: That's why drinking went up.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: And they just weren't happy with who they were.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Literally, when you finally got to be still and look
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: in that mirror, you're like, I don't like who I am.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: For those of us who was already going to therapy
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: and stuff, we were ready for COVID. For those who weren't,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: hadn't done no work on they self, oh my God.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: So wait, you made this album while you were making
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the movie?
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: I'm still making it. I didn't start making the album
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: until after the movie.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, okay, okay.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say, because how
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: was that?
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: To snap out a character and then to, you know.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: No, no, I wasn't making anything while making the movie.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: I was so worried.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Super focused.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like every Sunday I was getting with an acting
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: coach and going over the scenes we were going to
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: do that week. And it was interesting because I remember
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: at the end of the movie, Murr and the director
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: were like, you know, applauding like, oh, he took it
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: so serious. He took acting classes. I'm like, y'all gave
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: me this role without thinking I was going to do that? Like,
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: what was the logic here of giving me this opportunity?
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: Because they probably saw how you were.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Like, you know what I mean?
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: That's what they said. They were like, nah, we saw
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: enough interviews and music videos and, you know.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Because even me watching the trailer, I didn't get to
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: see it. I'm not a specialist. Charlamagne didn't send me.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: The fucking video. He saw it before I did.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: But, you know.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this was months ago. Oh.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: That's great. But no, like, they probably saw you and
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, yo, we want him.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: So some people, like, they curate roles around people that
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: they see already can embody them.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: And the role didn't feel like too much of a reach.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: It's like, all right. No, it wasn't. It was effortless.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: You and T-Pain were very effortless throughout the whole film.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Norm said something earlier, right?
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: And it was kind of alluding to, like, that that
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: chip on the shoulder that we used to see from
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Russ a lot.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And it did help make you successful. Sure. Have you
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: ever worried that that same chip could eventually limit you?
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Oh, it did. It did. Yeah. It's just not a
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: sustainable fuel, you know, to keep trying to trick your
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: brain into thinking the next plaque I get, I'll feel good.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: You know, I feel like feeling good is always just
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: out of reach. You know what I mean? Feeling content
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: with my life is always like just out of reach.
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: And like you said, it worked for a little bit
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: and it worked when the context was different, when I
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: hadn't blown up yet. And it was kind of like, um,
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: logical to think that, well, yeah, you feeling good about
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: your life is out of reach because you still haven't
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: made your dreams come true.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: But once you make your dreams come true to keep
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: And prolonging fulfillment and keep putting it just out of
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: reach of yourself is just debilitating.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, you got to, that's what they tell you,
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: be grateful for where you are. They always say if
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: you can't be appreciative of what you have, God won't
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: bless you with more.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: Man, I have a just unfortunate feeling that I know
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: at the end of my life I'm going to be
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: so bummed that I didn't. that I wasn't here for
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: so much of it. You know what I mean? Like
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: I'm waste my days away sometimes in my head, you know,
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: like you just, just living in my head so much
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: when it's like, well, yeah, because people who learn that
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: being in your body feels unsafe, you start to live
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: in your head, you know? And so that's kind of
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: what this album again is talking about is, is just
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: that path to integration, you know?
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Sometimes people can believe in themselves so much that you'll
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: be unable to hear yourself.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Why? I don't know.
• 28:47
  Speaker 6: I think it's a mechanism you develop because you're used
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: to having, you have to believe in yourself that much
• 28:54
  Speaker 6: because the people around you either don't understand it, even
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: if they want to support you, or they don't support it.
• 28:59
  Speaker 6: So you got to talk yourself through all these like,
• 29:02
  Speaker 6: Hurdles and obstacles that are unimaginable. All of us in
• 29:06
  Speaker 6: this room have accomplished things that people are like, how
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: the hell did you do that? You've had to talk
• 29:10
  Speaker 6: yourself through things that were like, this is not even
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: a real thing for people.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: But you'll stop listening to yourself when you actually probably
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: do need that moment to sit still. When your body
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: is literally telling you like, no, bro, something's wrong. You
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: need to sit down and figure this out.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: You keep going, keep going, keep going.
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: But I don't even know how you got through that, though,
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: because physically, your body didn't start responding to me like, nah, uh-uh,
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: something's not right.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Well, you got a therapist, right?
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I got a therapist four years ago, but before that, alcohol.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: That's how I got there.
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: Burned yourself out. I spent the summer, and by the
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: end of that summer, I was like, no.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: All that money you was making, it was just liquor,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: no cocaine?
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: Never cocaine.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Fuck no, no.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: Just alcohol and weed. That was it.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Do you smoke weed still?
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: I stopped for five years, then I started again. recently,
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: but I've been doing these like mushroom gummies, which is- Yo.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Everybody love the mushroom gummies and the mushroom chocolate.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: They the ones, bro. You're doing them in the right dose.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're kind of incredible. I've done them like three
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: times and I'm like, all right, I'm starting to feel
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: like I'm looking at my house for the first time.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: This is nice.
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm telling you, because what it does is it
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: makes you micro-focus on things that you- may have.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Looked over, you know?
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: It's like I'm noticing my life for the first time.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: There you go. And a lot of times people show.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: Up for clarity. Pro-drug interview.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: No, that's bad, though.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: What a turn of events for me and my brand.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: No, no, that's plant-based medicine. Right.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: Because I show up for clarity.
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: And sometimes that's what you got to do. You know,
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: you got to show up for clarity sometimes. Well, you
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: don't got to.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: Sorry, kids.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: But it's cool.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Nice. I'm interested. I'm just scared of myself too much.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: Me too.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Do it when it calls you.
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'd say the same thing. Like, I would love
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: to have that journey, but I'm so scared about when
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: it calls you.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: It's called. I'm just not picking up, but it calls.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: My phone is connecting.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I ain't got anything to do yet.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: For the space you're in right now, it would be
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: really good for you. I've thought about it. But I'm
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: telling you, whatever you got.
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: But I need to go to like a shaman.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I do that. I'm going again in November.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: Costa Rica?
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I go in L.A.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: But why?
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: How do you know when it's time to go?
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: They got shamans in L.A.? Yes, but they fly them in.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: They fly them in. No, no, no, no, no.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: It sounds like that's not Joshua.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to go to L.A. A shaman in L.A.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: No, I promise you.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: That's what they call them now. They fly them in.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: It's a ceremony. No, I feel like L.A.
• 31:17
  Speaker 7: Would be the place that they would come to.
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: All those people that want to be in touch spiritually
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: and Joshua Tree and all that.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: It's on the outskirts of L.A. It's in Cali, but
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: it's on the outskirts.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Which one?
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Joshua Tree?
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: Joshua Tree?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: I guess. I mean, it's not Joshua Tree, but.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: It's like an area like that.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: But I get what you're saying.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: You like, yo, if I'm going to do it, I
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: want to do it out the country. I want to
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: do it somewhere. I got to be like a jungle.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Somewhere like that.
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: A jungle would scare the hell out of me.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: When I first did it, that's what they told me.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: It's like, everybody goes to Costa Rica and stuff like that.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: It was like.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: Why would you want your first experience?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: What if it's harsh? You want to be in the jungle?
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: Low key.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be in LA.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't want to be in LA. If I'm jumping,
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: I'm jumping.
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: Damn. We're going to do it.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: We're going out.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: We're going out.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: We're doing it.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: But that's what the shamans are for. You want to
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: do it across the street from like an off-Broadway warehouse
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: on fucking Hollywood.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: No.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying. That's what your view should be.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: I'm proud that she was in the hangover. And that
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: was across the street.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: It's the country.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: But I'll tell you something. Everything you're dealing with, it's
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: going to be like shit on this table. You'll be
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: looking at it like, oh, shit. It's like somebody holding
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: your head like, don't look away.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Look at it.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Crazy.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: It happened.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Let it go.
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: I'm amped. I'm amped. I'll say this. I've been tempted
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: to do this sort of guided, heroic mushroom journey where
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: it's the same kind of thing. It's the same goal.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: I'm just freaked out.
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: What are you scared of? Me.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Like, you know you, though.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: But, like, you're gaming. I know. That's why my fear
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: is anchored in reality.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: It's going to be there regardless. Yeah.
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: What changed in your life? Or, like, what are you
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: thinking about? Like, sometimes people get here because it's like, okay,
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: I'm thinking about children. Or, like, what kind of reversed
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: all of this for you?
• 32:59
  Speaker 7: Like, what was that, like?
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it was a reverse. It was
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: just an exhaustion. Just tired of life.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:04
  Speaker 7: I can understand that.
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: Tired of just pulling myself to the next thing, to
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: the next thing, knowing that there's just gunk I need
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: to deal with, you know?
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: That's what I meant earlier about, like, your body doesn't
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: physically tell you, like, yo, this is not it.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: It does.
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: Like, my body will physically be like, you are fighting
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: against what is already happening.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Stop.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: I think it's one of my, like, best attributes and
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: it becomes maladaptive at a certain point but it's my
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: resilience i think i just you know i'm resilient and
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: my ambition is just sickening yeah you know i think
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: i can tolerate a lot more spiritually than most and
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: emotionally than most i think because i had to i
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: think during childhood i was the one that was kind
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: of having to run around to everybody's room after a
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: fight to make sure everyone was good yeah monitoring everyone
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: you know i mean so like i think how that
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: translates to being an adult is whatever I'm going through
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: is not priority, you know, until now, until it gets
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: to a point where you're like, I can't push it
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: down anymore. Right. I got to deal with it, you know?
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: So I think when I first blew up, it was,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: there was so much going on that it was not
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: easy to ignore, but with the alcohol and with how
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: fast my life was moving, it was kind of easy ish.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: And I think you're right. I think during COVID, that's
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: really when it like ramped up for me and I
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: didn't have a therapist. Like I had never done, I
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: was like very anti-therapy, you know? Um, and then 2022
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: I got one and it was life changing for sure.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: But you said something earlier about how we've all, you know,
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: like done things that only, you know, it's like people's
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: wildest dreams. I also think it's so, we're so lucky
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: that I don't know when everyone started their journey, but
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: I assume young. Cause I feel like if I try
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: to start this now, Oh, wow, yeah. Like, I'm too aware.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: No, you're right.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: When I was 17, deciding to go after this, there's
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: a certain youthful oomph that you just have.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: You don't give a fuck. Yeah.
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: You're not like, self surveilling internally yet. You don't know what,
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: you don't know any of, you don't care.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: When I say I ain't give a fuck. Right. I
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: ain't give a fuck. I didn't even possess the ability to.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: We heard you just.
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: But all of our journeys at that time, it's like
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: you needed that. Even if now you look at it
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: and you're like, okay, I had to change this or
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: change that. But like you needed that at that time
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: and it couldn't, it wouldn't even be the same.
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: At this point.
• 35:33
  Speaker 7: Like you had to do that.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: But it also compounds, you know what I mean? So like, yeah,
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: at 17, I didn't feel the weight that I do now.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: That's because that was 16 years ago. It's like after
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: a while, it's just everything you're dealing with and not
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: dealing with compounds.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: And then you're growing up at the same time too.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the responsibility.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Mindset, mental, it's changing.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Do you remember that period when it felt like the
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: internet genuinely enjoyed fucking with you?
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There was an anti-Russ campaign.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: My boy was just telling me, I think it was 2018,
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: he reminded me, He was like, there was a list
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: that came out. I don't remember the list, but he
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: was telling me yesterday. Of most hated people in the world.
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: And it was like an end of year list. Trump
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: was number one. I think Logan Paul was number two
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: for like the Forrest thing. And then me. And then
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: Kim Jong-un. And then Kim Jong-un. I think KD was
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: number three because he went to the Warriors. And then
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: me and then Kim Jong-un. It's like, what? It's nuts.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: But I remember that time vividly.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: What part of that criticism was unfair? And what part
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: did you eventually realize, you know what, I might have
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: earned it?
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: The delivery of my message was harsh, but I stand
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: by my message. I was just calling out glorification of
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: substance abuse. You know, as we talk about.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: You wasn't wrong.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: To the ayahuasca and mushrooms.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Those are plant-based medicines. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: No, I wasn't wrong. That was a crazy time in
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: rap where it was just like... it felt like everyone
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: was glorifying just hard drugs and being on them. You
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: know what I mean?
• 37:13
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: You completely won that argument.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Sadly.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: When you look back in hindsight and look at all
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: the people we've lost, you completely won that argument.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Because it wasn't nothing to be debated.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, again, me and my friends always talk
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: about it. It's like, you know there's something backwards going
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: on in society if you come out and say, like,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: stop doing all these drugs and promoting them. And you're
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: the bad guy. Like, I'm the asshole. It's like, got it. Okay.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: But again, to me, that was counterculture. You know, culture
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: was not trying to hear that. It was counterculture to
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: come out and be like, Xanax and lean is done.
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: And you guys are losers. I was really talking to
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: white kids, too. Because I was that young white kid
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: who wanted to try lean because I heard it in
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: a rap song. I was talking to them, because I
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: grew up with them. I'm like, you guys are losers.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: I know, because I was one.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Why people don't put you in the white rapper category?
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: They don't think that I'm white.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Y'all knew I was white?
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: I did.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: I had to look up, like, because you're, like, Italian
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: and Sicilian. I had to look that up.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: So, like, Italian and Sicilian. Y'all not white. Y'all, like, off-white.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Y'all use seasonings.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: I'm not, like, Virginia white. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: But see, but that's what made me look, because I'm.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Like, you white, but you're not Virginia white.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: No, because you know.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
• 38:30
  Speaker 7: It's categories of white. And I was like, well, why?
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: Where is the flavor he trying to, like, grab? Where
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: did that come from? So I looked it up, and
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: I was like, oh, okay.
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, they don't put me in that. It's strange.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Neville.
• 38:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: It's cool, though. You know what I mean? Just in
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: some gray area.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Can you cook?
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you white.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: No, I'm joking.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I'm joking.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: You can't cook?
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he can cook, though.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I can make a pasta.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he can cook, damn.
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: You're Italian? I mean, he literally will like- Oh, you're Sicilian?
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: Pasta's from scratch.
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: Sure he is.
• 39:02
  Speaker 7: Sauce is from scratch.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: For real?
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you just- Rapping.
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: I got money and got a chef.
• 39:07
  Speaker 7: I know, that's right.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: Such a cop out.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Do you still need people to doubt you to motivate you?
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: No, not at all. No, that just doesn't even do
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: anything for me anymore. I think, well, that's not true.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: That's not all the way true. Strangers doubting me doesn't
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: do anything for me. You know what I mean? If
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: there's people around me, if there's any sort of betrayal,
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: in my life that feels like it's based in you
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: not believing in me anymore, that fuels me for sure.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: You know when you feel like people who are around you,
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: they just like, they all of a sudden take your
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: association for granted. And it's clear it's because, oh, you
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: don't believe in this anymore. That fuels me. That's a
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: little bit more intimate.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Is that healthy?
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Hell no.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: No.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know people like that.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: No, it's not healthy. But whatever. Do you get rid
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: of those people when you start saying that?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:08
  Speaker 7: You say you don't have no friends?
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Get the fuck up out of here. Okay, cool.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: What is that?
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: You said you don't have no friends.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: You tried to find friends.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I didn't say that.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: I didn't say I don't have no friends. He said
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: he don't have people in the studio with him, yo.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: What's scary to you?
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Putting out an album and letting people judge your ideas
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: and the music or being in a movie and people
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: judging whether you can act?
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: The album. It's higher stakes.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Because it's like, that's what I'm supposed to be good at.
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? That's my thing. So at
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: the same time when I just played in that celebrity
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: big three all-star game, I was so nervous because I
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: was like, well, I'm about to be judged. on my
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: performance of something I don't do. You know what I mean?
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: And so that felt scary. It's like, don't judge me
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: for this. Come listen to my songs. I don't know.
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: I'll see how it feels when the movie's actually out.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: I feel like if this movie is successful, I see
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Russ starting to invest in film.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: I'm working on mine next.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, shit. That's what's up.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: The biopic?
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Not the full life story, but the juiciest part,
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: the come up. So, yeah.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: That's what's up.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Dope. Yeah. Well, listen, Russ, man, always a pleasure. The
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: new movie, Don't Move. It's out, what, September?
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: September 11th. September 11th. Theater's nationwide.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, salute to the Murray. What's my guy's name? Murray.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: James Murray.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: James Murray. Yeah. Salute to my guy, James Murray. And
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: when the album's coming, Elephant and the Rider?
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I thought it was done, and then
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: I realized it wasn't. There's just so much more going
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: on internally than I anticipated.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Period.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You unpacking a lot, man. I can tell.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's interesting. It's like Santiago was this
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: excavation album, the start of it. And then Wild, my
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: last one from last year, was sort of this like
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: reconciling with myself by saying, you know what? I understand
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: I've been keeping myself locked in this cage because I'm
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: scared of the unknown. I'm scared to get hit again.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: I got hit by the world.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: And now I'm scared to go out there again. So
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: let me unlock myself from that. Let me go out here.
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: And now the elephant in the rider is like, okay, well,
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: it's one thing to unlock yourself from the cage and
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: go back out into the unknown. It's a whole other
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: thing to feel okay while you're back out there. So
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: I didn't anticipate not feeling okay.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: But that's what inevitably is going to come with like, okay,
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: you're going back out into the unknown knowing it's scary
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: and all these things. So you're naturally not going to
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: feel okay about it, but you have to do it anyway.
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: But let's unpack why you don't feel okay, and that's
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: the elephant.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: So there's a point where constantly creating prevents you from
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: actually sitting with yourself.
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah. So how do you distinguish productivity from avoidance?
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: Making sure that when I'm making songs, it's, to put
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: it simply, therapy exercises. You know what I mean?
• 43:04
  Speaker 7: Gotcha.
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: Like I'm not trying to just be down there like,
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: Every once in a while, you just make some kind
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: of mindless shit, but I'm trying to really use the
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: music as the place to make sense of all of
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: this and get it out. Because I know I'm not
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: the only one dealing with it. I also think there
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: needs to be this kind of content in the landscape.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? This is my last question.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: You just made me think about something else. What's the
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: difference between making the music I guess your fans want
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: in becoming a prisoner of what your fans expect from you.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I feel like you might be in that space.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: No, I completely went away from that space. I was Mr.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: Self-Help Book. You know what I mean? Now I'm like
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: making therapy songs. I guess your book didn't work. Fucking loser.
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: Could have swore he wrote a self-help book. Clearly you
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: needed help.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: So I took a hard left with the brand identity.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: Which was scary. You know what I mean? When I
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: did Santiago, which was like the first venture into like
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: kind of more introspective, honest, deeper music that is maybe
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: sad or whatever, but it was honest. It was scary
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: because I'm like, well, my fans know me for being
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: positive and manifestation and self-help and click your heels and
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: you can make it come true. You know, like how
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: is this going.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: To go over? You're not linear though.
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: No, I agree. A hundred percent. That's what I'm learning
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: with this album. It feels like a backslide to be honest, but. yeah,
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: I think this is like the maturation of Russ as
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: an artist and human, you know? Dope.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Dope.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Well, it's Russ, ladies and gentlemen. Don't move in theater,
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: September 11th. Thank you for joining us, bro.
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. It's the Breakfast Club.