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Silverback Leadership Function 1 · B Shifter

• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Welcome everyone to the B-Shifter podcast.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: It's John Vance today, Nick Brunicini, Terry Garrison, hanging out with you Glad to have you along for the ride and we are ramping up for the conference.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: The pre-conference starts September 30th.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: We are going to be there for the main conference October 3rd and 4th, Sharonville, Ohio.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: As of now you know there's about 100 seats left, so it's close to sold out.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: You might be able to get in still, so go to hazardzonebccom and sign up.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: It is a great networking event and learning event for incident commanders and fire service leaders, and today we are talking about fire service leadership with a program that Nick and Terry have put together called Silverback Leadership.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Can you, for those who are newly anointed B-Shifters, let us know what the Silverback Leadership Program is all about?
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Well, let me start Nick, because I want to make sure that everybody understands that this is.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: We think of ourselves as curators, distillers of Brunicini and everything that he put together throughout his entire career in the fire service.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: So what happened was and we've said this a few times on the show is that Brunicini had boxes and boxes.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: He had a room full of boxes with leadership information and that included his books that we'll talk about here in a minute or two.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: And we took all that information and Nick asked me it's probably been two years now since I retired and Nick asked me hey, can you come together and help me kind of sort out this stuff?
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: So the leadership program that we're putting together is originally we thought it was a repackaging of Bruno's stuff, but I think it's even more than that.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: We distilled it down and there was so much information that that is what this is about is all the leadership information that Bruno learned throughout his entire career and how we used it, and then how some of us have gone off and used what we learned from him.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: You, as a matter of fact, john, have used in your organization some of that information, and that's what we're doing is we're going to take that information and we put it together in a program that has about eight functions and we're going to apply all those functions.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: And the key to all of this is how can a leader of an organization, or leaders of an organization, instill that their membership understands what's important in our delivery system model and then what's important in providing service to our customers?
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: And then Nick says it better than I do and I'll let him do it here in a minute.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: And then how do we provide an added value service for our customers?
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: And really that's the goal of a leader, right, that's the goal of the fire service is to provide a service.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: So how, as leaders, can we ensure that that best service possible is being delivered to the customer consistently and in a safe way, is being delivered to the customer consistently and in a safe way.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Like Terry said we had, there were boxes of stuff and there was a box of leadership scenario material for no-brainer management.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Then there was another box that had a bunch of boss behavior pamphlets in it and then there was probably, I'm guessing, two dozen boxes, maybe least the minimum, and that was after I went through and threw probably another 10 away that had other stuff and consolidated into everything I wanted the project my dad was really working on.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Uh, the last 10 years of his life was the leadership stuff and so he had written a couple books, the customer service book first in the 90s, and then he followed that up with AMP of leadership, probably I don't know seven or eight years later in early 2000.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: So those two books are kind of the leadership management ones that he wrote for like service delivery it's just a general concept in customer service and then he was doing two different programs functional boss behaviors and no brainer and no brainer management were the two workshops that he was going off and doing.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And then, man some people that are listening now will remember a million years ago he did a thing called Executive Edge and that became so popular that, like the I-Chiefs ended up hooking up with him and they got involved in it.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And then he quickly gave it to him and said I'm going to do my own thing.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So whatever happened there, but he essentially took the Executive Edge leadership class he was doing and that's where functional boss behaviors and no brainer management came from, and so a lot of that content was all in those boxes at the end and at that same time I ended up buying my brother out of the business.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: So I took the whole thing over and we're finishing this building and a bunch of other stuff was going on, and so it's like, ok, I got all this stuff and like in the priority basket, I want to go through this, but I just don't have the time right now and there's other things we got to do.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: So I gave it all to Terry and said, hey, man, see what all this is and if there's anything we can do with it.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: The other piece of that is there was a book called Cool Command.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Piece of that is there was a book called Cool Command.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: My dad wrote that is a pretty much a finished manuscript and now I found all the art that kind of goes with it and supports it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: So that's another thing that has just been sitting there and you're like, okay, that's more of a senior advisor piece of the blue card universe, so but all of this kind of comes together with the leadership of a fire department and how it goes.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: So I gave this stuff to Terry and said you know, we'll figure out if there's anything that we can do with it.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: So we ended up taking fire department customer service back from Oklahoma State University.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: They weren't doing anything with it.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: They had been disconnected from my father for a little while so they didn't know what they were going to do with it.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And so they got a hold of us and said, hey, we got this book and we said, yes, we want that back.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And so we got the book back and we reprinted it and we reprinted it under the name Fire Department Customer Service.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: So we lost Essentials off the front, because that kind of indicates that Essentials is Oklahoma State, osu stuff, fire protection publications.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: So we got the book back, reprinted it and started looking at the content.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And so Terry said well, based off of everything like your father loves, functions.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And so there's eight functions of leadership here.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: So they're kind of the eight pillars and you have, you know as we go through those.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: And then there's an introductory module that kind of you know, starts the whole program off.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was really good at taking information and packaging it up for each audience, but the information that he was packaging up was around the same themes, right.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: So over here you had no brainer management.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Over here you had functional boss behaviors and those were two different classes that were packaged up a little bit different, but the main themes throughout those were the same themes that were kind of in the customer service guide and the AMP.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: So when we pulled them all together it's like well, this makes sense, here's how this kind of matches up.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: And at the same time, before he passed away, when I was a fire chief in Glendale, he was coming to the city of Glendale and meeting with our command team, I think about every month.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: It started off being not so frequent every couple months and I think he enjoyed doing it and what he was doing is he was throwing all this against us and getting feedback.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: I think he was really he did that better than anybody.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: He'd have an idea or a concept or a theory and he'd take it out and he'd talk to firefighters about it and probably people listening here didn't even know at points in their career if they were talking to Bruno.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: They were probably giving him some feedback and some of the theories that he was going to use later to train people because he was just excellent at that.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: So he was doing that with the Glendale Fire Department and so we were fortunate.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: So when Nick asked me and I had retired from Glendale, I was like, oh, absolutely, I'll take every opportunity I can to to jump in that.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: But it did.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: It took about what nick almost a year to kind of figure out the, the functions well, just to go through it all and organize it, make sense of and say, nah, this doesn't go here, this fits here and this book supports this, and so, and really, I mean, i't know, it's probably been what four or five months now.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: You had like the whole overview of what it was going to look like.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, we wrote it on, you put it on a board and we thought, okay, this, this.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: So we've been adjusting it.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Well, crazy, but we've been dicking with it, like you say, probably now seriously, for at least about the last year We've been chewing on it and meeting periodically.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Well, the about the last year we've been chewing on it and meeting periodically.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Well, the intro's done.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: So our plan is, well, it's like every four to eight weeks to have another module up and running.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: So we're still the.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: The program's not all the way finished.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: The first module's finished, but we know what the whole thing's going to look like.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: It's just we got to put it together now, so, and it's going to be mostly online.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: To be honest with you, is this going to be mostly online, to be?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: honest with you Is this going to be a standalone program, or who has access to it?
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Right now, as we're putting it together and developing and create new content is we're going to post it up in the CE section of the B Shifter website.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: So if you have full access to the CE modules, you're going to be able to go through the Silverback leadership as we get it up and running and I predict it's going to be about a year to get all nine modules cycled through there.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: So, as we're doing it and there's no more charge for it, whatever you're paying now you get to watch the whole thing as we put it together.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: So that's the plan at this point and the first module is done and I think it's going to turn out pretty well.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: And it's really what's driving me is I worked 29 years in this fire department and it was a very it was a fun and unique place to have your career because of the way we were led and managed.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: And this is what Silverback leadership is going to do.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: It's all about the work we provide and you will see that in the first module is the work drives everything no-transcript, and so that's what we tried to capture with this.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: You knew exactly where you fit in, and so that's what we tried to capture with this.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Not only is the added value so critical, but then, as a leader, how do you implement that and how do you use that in your organization?
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: And if you're not the leader of that organization, how do you use it within your battalion or your division or whatever?
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: So I think the hardest part of the entire program was what to leave out, because there was so much information and, um, we felt like we got the pretty much everything we needed to get in there, but we're still finding a nickel.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Just a month ago he comes in, he throws down some, some notes and napkins that he had found somewhere and it's like, okay, so now we're.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: it's notes, napkins and knowledge we're dealing with here so we're, we're still adding the value and and that's, or adding that information and some of that content.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: That's why this is going to be, I think, a work in progress as we go what?
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: what is for the novice here?
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: What is added value?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: How do you define what added value is when we're talking about all this?
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: So, Nick, I think that story with the slipper is how Bruno kind of describes added value, right.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the first, this introductory module.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: The other thing we did is I found a bunch of video of him.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Oh there you go.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: We're putting this studio together because of the podcast, it advances the DJ now and you've got to have proper equipment and tools and room to do your job.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Man, that's how you add value is okay.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: This is the core of what I do.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: So for me to add value, I've got to do the core first.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, we've got all this video.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: So I find this video and think, oh my God, this is, and he's talking about all this stuff, so it's perfect.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: And he was asked the question well, what is added value?
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: And he gives the example.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: He says I get a letter and it's from this family and they took the mom to the hospital because she had some kind of medical issue.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: And by the time she got to the hospital she had her wits about her enough to figure out.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, the nice fireman took me to the hospital but oh my God, I don't have my pink slippers.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I have to have my pink slippers.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: So he goes through this whole thing and so these firefighters just say, ok, they go, they go back to her house, they get her slippers and they take them back to the hospital.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Right, that's the whole story.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I said here's your slippers, ma'am.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking 15 minutes Did not take longer than 15 minutes from the time she said I need slippers to the time they were saying that they were in service, they would have gotten it.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: No, the whole thing.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: In fact they may not have been in service because they had just dropped a patient off.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: You got to prep your ambo, so go get your stuff and then do your little cleaning spray thing and the rest of it.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: But anyway, my dad gets this letter and it was the slippers, and so he's telling the host who's asking these questions.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: He says this family for the next 50 years is going to talk about this.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: This is what happens, he says, because two young firefighters just did something that their mothers taught them how to do.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: As you be nice and you take care of Mrs Smith and she needs her slippers, and it's not anything out of your day and you're already getting paid, go get her slippers and bring it back to her.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: And that's what they did.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: So he says that's added value.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It's that simple.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: So the core service was them going and treating Mrs Smith, stabilizing her, transporting her to the hospital they're all boxes on an EMS form.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I took her vital signs her name, her age, medical history.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: This is what she's complaining of.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: We put her on oxygen.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: We did all these things.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: That is core service based on EMS protocols.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: The added value is the human interaction.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: It's your bedside manner, if you will.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: So what they did is they had a customer who was in distress over something that they could easily fix, didn't cost a penny to do it, and it created a million dollars worth of goodwill from that person.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: They got excellent service.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: So anyone listening today think back.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: When is the last time you got excellent service from anybody, especially today?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, if my dad was alive he'd have a sledgehammer just to the service industry forever.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I mean he was twitching at the end of his life of how things were.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: How can it get worse than it was, I mean so I mean that's it.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Service has gone to hell in the whole world.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I mean it's just where it's going.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: And the opportunity is if you embed this philosophy into your organization, your department, you will provide that added value service.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: But it's really got to become part of the fabric of the organization, doesn't it?
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: That's the whole key to this, because there's probably some people sitting around saying, oh, pink slippers, so what?
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: Well, the key is that you have to embed that.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: That's a great word, we hadn't thought about using that.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: But you've got to embed that culture within the organization that it's okay to provide added value.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: And if you've got an organization that's like you're not looking at any opportunities for added value, you don't even think about it at all, you're not going to get it.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I don't even know if it's.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I don't think embedding is the right word, even.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Because, it's the culture in general.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: See like you can embed safety into a blue card operation as a regular element, but to embed added value, it's too great.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like an infecting virus that you get.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: See, and that was part of the joy we got to have working in the system that we worked in like the fire department we worked for is there were things you could do and things you wouldn't do.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: You knew what you would get in trouble for and it was like if you get caught substance abuse on duty, sex on duty, fighting on duty and stealing those four things and they would tell you all the big bosses would say you do one of those four sins and you can lose your job over that.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: We're not going to promise you will, but you're likely going to.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the price for dancing over here.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, on the other side of this line, you show up and you service the customer.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: The way that you provide excellent customer service, where you act like you're the reason you're here is to go on these calls and deliver this service.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: If you do that, you're golden.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Avoid this and do this and you can have the time of your life.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: And so what we did is we ran a pirate ship where we had the time of our life but the customer was always the focus and centerpiece of it when there was a customer.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: When it wasn't, we were the centerpiece because there wasn't a call.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: You were self-actualizing at a fire station, which was fantastic.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: But it was a whole different culture back then because it was all around the work, the work.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So you could temper the workforce in a way where you could almost quiet, like the A-shifter steely eye Navy SEAL firefighters where I do right-hand wall searches this way, and I could make a 30-minute bottle of air last an hour and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: You know the guys you would pick up and use as heat shields in a real fire.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Well, you could traverse with them and they could be a little goofy, but as long as they provide a customer service.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: So it kept everyone centered to what was real and right and correct for the organization and see the effect of that was insane.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: The community, I don't know, probably it wasn't that long, but the effect the community would take care of the fire department is you wouldn't have to defend yourself because the community was always screaming oh, the firefighters are great and it was it?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Just it was like a rock star type of a deal.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I mean it just was.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: You were like, I mean you had, if you were on duty, you were as popular as the Phoenix Suns.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I mean that's just what it had, and we all felt good about ourselves that way.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I mean you had a lot of B-shift cretins that like if they weren't in a uniform you would call the police and think, oh my God, and maybe some medical experts to identify exactly what species that was you were looking at.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: But man, you put a fire department t-shirt on a minute.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Oh hello and we knew that we were all responsible for each other too yeah, so you wouldn't want to screw that up, you wouldn't want to mess that up, you want to do provide a service.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: That's like we're responsible for each other.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: And if somebody got just a step out of line and this is a good piece too is that you may have a captain who gets a step out of line and you got a crew that said, hey, skip, get over here yeah, you should carry one another.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you did, you just it was.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: You know, when you talk about, like the, the fractures in the workplace today with the, the various opinions and we all want, you know all of the nonsense and noise you hear that didn't exist really and you still all the ingredients did, but because of the way that we connected and why we were there and the way we were managed and led and what was important, kept all that to a minimum, all that background noise that usually takes over.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: So, and you know Garrison tells we talk about uniforms a lot, as you know, because that's the low hanging fruit, that anybody oh, I can make sure I can see if you're in the right uniform or not it's easy to say, hey, you know, don't do that.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Now, actually, like supervising somebody on an incident is a whole different thing, because there's like decisions and you have to think and understand and make sense of stuff.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, bruno had that wonderful hierarchy of where a man, where a leader or a manager may fall based on what their priorities are, based on some of their own insecurities and people.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: That there's people that fall down here and worry about appearance and some of their own insecurities and people that there's people that fall down here and worry about appearance and some of those kind of things Instead of you want your.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: It doesn't take a lot of leadership to say put on a bluer shirt today, that one's a little gray, put on a bluer one.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: That's not leadership.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Leadership's up here when you're actually leading people and you're correcting them in a positive way and say, hey, we need to treat people this way because it allows us to do this and this and this and it's the right thing to do.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: But people want to have conversations down here about uniforms and just silly stuff all the time.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: It's like we need to raise the level.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: And that's one thing about Bruno.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: You always knew Like I would ask people when I was a fire chief in Houston, I would visit a fire station.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: I would say what do you think I care about?
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I was there a year or so and they'd go well, you care about firefighter safety and customer service.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Well, how do you know that?
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Because you say it every time you show up someplace, and every time, thank you.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: That's what I care about.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: I care about providing the highest level of service and keeping firefighters safe.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: There's organizations where you don't know what you every day.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: It's a new deal.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: What's my boss care about today Is it does he care about uniforms?
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Does he care about us being?
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: I mean just, it's just so silly the way some leaders act and really it should be consistent up and down the organization.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: And that's why I think, whether you call it embedded or consistent up and down the organization, and that's why I think, uh, whether you call it embedded or not, but you got to have that culture that matches it's just the way we do things, just like strategic, tactical and tough.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: you got to match that up right.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all got to be in line because, just like on the fire ground, if you have a fire chief and he's he has he has his thought process of what's important fire, fire safety and customer service and you have firefighters that think that's important at the task level and you've got some tactical level boss who thinks uniform is more important than that, you get out of alignment and you start seeing organizational alignment being a problem for some of those, so you need to fix that.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: And you start seeing organizational alignment being a problem for some of those, so you need to fix that.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: There's a chapter, there's a function in there, one of our last functions in the leadership training program sorry, Nick is on how do you keep your organization in line?
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: So how do you manage those boundaries and keep people?
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Because it's constant?
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: You can't a fire chief can't show up and say this is what's important and then come back a year later and say it has to be a daily, daily message everybody needs to know.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: There can't be any gray areas well to pick up with.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: That is so what happens is okay, no, the service delivery is what is important, that's what we put at the top of the pyramid.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: And then you're going to have the people that are like, well, no, I'm a bureaucrat and I understand that we need to do that, but you have to maintain strong discipline with uniforms and appearance and grooming and all of that, and you think, well, no, that's not why we're here Now.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: We wear a uniform, but excellent, saying it doesn't cause unity.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: So they say, well, you're going to, they're going to look like bums, they're not going to look professional anymore because you don't.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: You don't have uniform inspection during shift change and whatever.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Nobody looked better than we did during my career, and I mean we weren't uniformed Nazis, but everybody wore.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: And you know the key to that is we.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: When I first got hired, you got a uniform allowance.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: It was 750 bucks.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: You got it once a year and we wore t-shirts.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And it was a separate check that your wife knew nothing about Untaxed also.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: There was no tax.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: It's $750 straight, right.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Well, the uniforms during that era where you got $750, no deductions, were A strong 7.5 to 8.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: But you would see cats and they would have beat-up uniforms and you'd think, oh, you spent your money on the boat or whatever.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: You'd know it was gone.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Now, like Station 24, they said $7.50, ain't nothing for us.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: They'd all sign the back of their checks, cut cards, high card took it all.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Eight guys, yeah, woo-hoo.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: I couldn't afford to work there.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And they were all smoking cigarettes at the table.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Eight guys smoking cigarettes, cutting cards, screaming, bringing the chickens.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: But what happened is they said we're going to change this.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And then there was like bureaucratic things, taxes and other things.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: You can't do it this way anymore.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: So what they said is we're going to cut it down to 500 bucks.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: You're like no God, you're going to cut it by a third.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: And they said what we're going to do is you get two pairs of pants, five shirts a year, and they come to you automatically on your hire date or whenever it was, so the uniform store could just send them out.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: So when they made that adjustment there's no more excuses it's like no, no, no, buddy, you get five shirts, two pants and, to be honest, like I became a captain after that happened, never in my career I was the worst uniform offender of anybody I knew, but all my uniforms look good when I wore them, and mostly I wore them when you were supposed to.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Very rarely was I out of uniform, but you know, I kind of got that reputation.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: And you, just you, wallow in it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: You were in uniform Most of the time.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I was, and they all look good.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: In fact, vance, the other day I just pulled T-shirts out of my closet because I'm retired now and that's all I do Like once a month.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You do your laundry and that's it.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You're done and I just so you just.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: It's like towels.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Now I found a bag in my garage with a bunch of old phoenix fire department uniform t-shirts.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: So now I started putting those on my wife's.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Like you cannot go outside in that bullshit baby.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a captain that day, yeah I'm going out in fact, they still have taxi vouchers in the pocket, yeah old ubers and they still fit yeah they do well.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: They're Old Ubers and they still fit.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do Well, they're a little loose, some of them.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, which is?
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: good, because I'd be dead now if I'd be like 400 pounds.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: You're benching 400 pounds.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you shouldn't weigh what you can bench sometimes.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: We use that uniform example.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: It's almost like a parable.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is, it's almost like a parable?
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: It's an easy, it's an example.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: So but the flip side of that, ok, we're not, we're not paying a lot of attention.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: You know, the uniform is on top of the list, the work is.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: What are the byproducts and the benefits of making the work the top of the pyramid?
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can manage the entire organization on a positive way.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: In a positive way by making the customer and the work number one.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: And what I was able to use it mostly for as a fire chief and I'll talk from a fire chief perspective.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: There were some city managers that I didn't get along with because we had different thought processes about who should run the fire department.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: I thought I should, but I was serving the customer.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: They thought I should run the fire department, but I should serve them.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: I said, no, you're not my boss, you are not you.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: I report to you, but my boss is the firefighters and their boss is a customer, and that's the way this thing needs to flip upside down.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: But whenever I would get into a serious discussion with them about budget, finance, resources, I would always pull in the customer.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: And, for instance, what do firefighters want?
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Now, what do the firefighters want?
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: They have that bad attitude.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: What do they want?
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: So you know what they want.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: They want better equipment to do their job.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: They want fire trucks to respond to the fire, and that's what firefighters want.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: They don't want loungers, they don't want TV sets, they don't want bigger toasters.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: No, they want equipment to do their job to service the customer.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: That's what firefighters want, and if you go to a fire station and ask them today, what do you guys need in here, they're never going to say better, although one time in Houston, when I was a fire chief, they were like you guys need mattresses, because this is embarrassing.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: You guys are sleeping on springs, but firefighters didn't say that.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: I noticed it as the fire chief and we were able to get Mad Max whoever the guy who owned the big store there provided all the mattresses for us, the guy who does the bets.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Oh, this guy was awesome, but he loved firefighters and provided those, but they weren't asking for them.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: I went in and saw it, but I think you can use that as you're starting to have discussions with politicians, with city managers, with the elected official, everybody, finance directors.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: When was the last time you actually explained if you're a fire chief and to your finance directors how what you need impacts your customer service system, and do that in a way that makes sense.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: It's like here's why we need this, because for some reason there's.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: We talk about Nick and I talk about the consumer departments and the conserver departments within a within a jurisdiction, and a fire department, a police department, are big consumers because we use a lot of resources and money and people and equipment to do our job.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: And the legal department, the finance department and HR they're conservers.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: They're always trying to get you to spend less, less, less.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: So you have this back and forth.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Every time you bring in the customer and you describe how what you need is going to help the customer, they look at you and they go oh, wow, really, that's what that does.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not just getting this equipment because it's fun and we want to carry shiny equipment around.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: This is how it works on the fire ground.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Well, it's the core service Is that the core service we provide is expensive.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: You have to buy a fire engine.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Well, a fire engine is extremely expensive.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: You have to have paramedics.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: It's very expensive to make a paramedic.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Now, fire departments could generate an incredible amount of money, but they typically don't, because they deliver service.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: We don't charge for it, it's all part of the taxes.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Now see one of the things like it connects to reality the core service.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: And let me use an example hiring females in the fire service.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Right, this was a big thing in the 70s when it first started.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: And we're going to put females in the fire service.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Right, this was a big thing in the 70s when it first started.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: And we're going to put females in the fire service.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Well, there was a lot of resistance to that because, you know, girls aren't as strong as men and this is a typically male dominated and all that stuff that you had there.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Well, it's all bullshit, really, until you can say what do we expect a firefighter to do?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I expect them physically to be able to do this.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Today, that is called the CPAT test, right, so to be a firefighter, you have to pass the CPAT test, otherwise you can't be one because there's the physical requirements to do our job.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: You have to operate at this level physically, so you make a CPAT test.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Well, that hooks up to reality.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: So now you can defend yourself in court because, like you say, we have connected to the work we're doing.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: If it doesn't support the work we're doing, then why are we doing it?
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, really the community came together to form the fire department.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: The community owns the fire department.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: We worked here.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: This is where we were in Phoenix, arizona, for 30 years.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: We did this and we operated a certain way and for that the city paid us the salary and gave us benefits and a pension and the rest.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: It was the best occupational employment agreement, probably ever, the most fair in the history of occupations.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: See, we both all three of us get pensions that are much better than the typical government retirement account, and it's all because of the work we did so.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Now, if I'm having trouble processing, and hiring people.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: I can justify why is they have to pass this test bona fide job qualification yeah you know that that was the big statement before the cpap when you come up.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: It had to match that.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: And I remember somebody saying why do we got to run two miles?
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Uh, I've never run.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: That's a bad park job at a fire right.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you're only going to run about 100 feet before it kills you.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: So if you're not away from it, then it's over.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: You got another mile and a half.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: You need to demonstrate that your heart works in an efficient way.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you do that some other way than running two miles?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Well, some aerobic doctor came up with the thing.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: He thought what's this have to do with?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Well, you're not going to be a good firefighter.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: So well, you never knew smut, did you, doc?
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: He, yeah, he couldn't run two miles, but he could carry eight of you into a building and out of a building.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: So once again you use that hiring practices and you point it back to the work.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: So once again, go back to the work and you can use that.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I mean you can use that everywhere If you describe the work well enough to people and they understand the work, because most people they don't know what firefighters do.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: I mean you're on the scene of a fire and you've got people standing around the building.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: They don't have a clue what we're doing there Now you think?
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: they think they know, the mayor doesn't know and not even just the fire.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: I'm talking.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: We should describe all parts of our job.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: And that's what we're doing with this program, is we're kind of breaking it down the next module we're going to talk about.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: We talk about the work and the four major categories fire, ems, hazmat, special ops.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Here's what those core standards look like.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: And we talk about that and then we are going to kind of break that down and talk about why they're important, why we do, how we got to where we are, and then also who kind of regulates those areas.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: Who describes?
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Who decides what the qualifications for an EMT is, for a paramedic?
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: Is that an outside agency?
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we all know that.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: Swiftwater rescue technician Same thing Hazmat who decides?
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: So we start, we really get into the detail of where this all comes from and then, once again, how you can use that internally in your organization and I think you need to explain it to firefighters too, because you know we have the benefit in our jobs.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: We get to go out and meet tons of different fire departments right, and I can walk into a fire department where I can tell they care about their core service and they're delivering good service and their attitudes and the way that they interact with each other and the public is so much more enlightened than some of the departments that we go to where you hear about the grievances and they're mad at the chief and you know the city council's trying to screw us over and they've got they've got their attention on all these other things other than the work.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: They don't even think about the work because, for whatever reason, they're distracted by a hundred other things.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Or, like Bruno did, they weren't.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: They weren't focused and they didn't have a leader who was focusing them on the work, and I see it all the time.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: But I also see very positive places where they are about the work All ranges right.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: And the other thing you made me think of is so the labor president and the union has to be your partner in that.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: So they need to be able to go out and describe the work as they're out doing their politics and everything that they do.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: They need to be on the same page as you and what happens is a lot of these organizations.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: What I see is the labor group has a better opportunity to talk to the membership than the fire chief does.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: It's just the way their communication works.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: We go through a chain of command and it's you know.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: You've got the formal leaders and the positional, they've got the stewards.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: They feel more comfortable, they talk about it.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: So if you're not careful, you can get the labor group pulling you into a conversation away from the work and away from the way you want your culture to be.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: And you need to have a strong relationship with them and say, hey, here's let's, that's important, all the things you're talking about, but let's tie it back over to here and not pull our members focus too far away from that, like right now in fire stations.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: With the election coming up, we're going to have a lot of conversations about stuff other than the work, and if a fire chief doesn't get ahead of that and say, hey, here's some parameters for our discussions and he or she's not going to be in every fire station to manage that but they need to at least have conversations about.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: We need to focus on the work, focus on Mrs Smith, and that's what Bruno did.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: He understood the work and then he really got a better understanding, especially the way Nick wrote it up in our introduction and the way Bruno describes it in the interviews is once he identified Mrs Smith as the customer.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: And then you tie the work, which is the core services, to Mrs Smith, the added value.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: That's where you really start moving your organization forward.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Well, in 1985, so we're doing our thing and we're a bunch of B-shifters and just self-actualizing and having fun doing the work.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: We have a four to six-minute response time for emergency calls, right?
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: One of the issues we're dealing with is the emergency transportation.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: So we would go on a call.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: We'd be doing CPR, whatever you have, a patient needs to go to the hospital immediately.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: You call for an ambulance.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it would take 30, 45 minutes, sometimes you would never get the ambulance.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: They would call and say we're not coming.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: There were times where the ambulances would tell you the companies if you can't get a pizza delivered, you're not getting an ambulance to your front door, and there were parts of town you couldn't get an ambulance.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: So I mean, it was just and there were about a dozen different private companies that did private ambulance during that time and see, they were in charge because they provided the ambulance service through the state.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: As they said, no, these are the ambulance, no one else can do it.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: You have to get permission from the state.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: So it's these 12 people do this community, the county.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: So what they did is they came up with a round robin dispatch system.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: So now these 12 companies each have two or three AMBOs each, and now you're protecting 500 square miles.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Where do I put my two ambulances to get a decent response time?
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I got 12 companies.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: They all got two or three AMBOs.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: So I got two to three dozen ambulances available.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: The problem is they're never where they need to be.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: And now when I call them, it is based on the equity of the business.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: So no, no, no, you got called first, then you go to me, then the one under me, and then you go one, two, three, four down the list.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: When you get to 12, you go back up to one.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: And so now our average time was over 20 minutes to get an ambulance.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: And now it's starting to be an issue in the hospitals and with the companies, and people are getting pissed.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: The fire chief Mr I'm in charge of this says I want to take the ambos over.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: He calls his good friend, the union president, and says well, I'm going to take the ambos over.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Well, the union president says oh, that's another 200 union pay in dues.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I want to take the AMBOs over.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: So between the two of them, six months we took the AMBOs over.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: They went to the state, they did all the political stuff.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: So now we.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: And now you can imagine, in a very red state at the time, what's going to happen when the blue government takes over from private business, what that's going to sound like.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: All that went up.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: People didn't care because they said no, the fire department cares about us.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: And so the city council said nah, you're giving it to the fire department.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: So, boom, boom, boom, we ended up with the ambulance service.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: So over the next couple of years they're figuring out how the hell do we run an AMBO service?
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Now you know, you got a lot of leeway because we're a big fire department, you got 40 facilities you can.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: So we knocked the time down right.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: So it went from 20 minutes to less than 10 minutes.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: And then the price, as they said, said they're going to kill you on the price.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Fire chief said I don't know if your insurance doesn't pay, it's free.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: The city came in and said no, it ain't, you can't.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: And he says yeah, it is.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: And they said no, no, no, a budget and research says it's not OK.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: But he says the government says he says what's the lowest?
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: They said 160.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: He says that what's the lowest?
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: They said 160.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: He says that's what it costs 160.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: That's what all the Ambo rides are going to be.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: No-transcript.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Been a dozen people that were the vocal minority that said no.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: These firefighters treated me like shit.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Well, they would have been suspect then.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: No, they want to because they're going to pull some scam and it's going to fatten their pockets.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to talk about that because when you're talking about the slipper story and the goodwill that you build, if you didn't have the goodwill, they would have said no to the ambulances, they would have said no yeah.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: That would have never happened, or anything else, or a new fire station or adding anybody.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: It got to the point in our city where the unions all negotiate with the city Over a period of time by the time I had seven, eight years on, none of the unions would negotiate with the city is over a period of time by the time I had seven, eight years on is none of the unions would negotiate with the city.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: They said no, we're not going to, we're going to wait till the end and we want whatever the firefighters get.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: And the city's like uh-uh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: They've got the people behind them, you don't?
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: They couldn't afford it.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: No, there's no way, we're not going to do that.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: And so our union knew it.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: And they're like no man.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: We can't.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: In fact, in this leadership thing, you're going to hear the man himself say no, keep your zip, it, Let the let the customer brag about you.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And if there's pain to be spread across city departments, you got to take your share.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: To be spread across city departments, you got to take your share.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: You're not, you can't be special, as all you can be, as more independent really is.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: If we will take care of our own business, then that allows us to take care of our business and not somebody else.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: The strongest thing we ever had, and the reason it worked with us, is we had a very strong fire chief and a very strong union president and they were connected.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: It was like having an army and a navy.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: You were going to win almost every single time because they were always going to do what was right.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's all I ever saw.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: But six separate incidents while guys are shopping could set that whole thing backwards.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, two or three things, yeah, that's what this program talks about is now how do you maintain it?
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Here's how you do it.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: How do you maintain it?
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: How do you hire people that have those similar values?
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: And you know, when people talk about values and mission statements, their eyes roll back.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: It's like not this again.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: But it is very valuable to understand values in a way that you can project them onto your customers.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: And that's what we're talking about is how do you take those values of being nice and project that on the customer in a way that the customer goes oh, those guys are nice.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: People would fly into Phoenix and they would have an experience on an airplane, a medical experience on an airplane.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: And when that experience was over, you had 120 passengers going back to their communities, wherever they came from, going oh, you've got to see the Phoenix Fire Department.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: I heard about it all the time and we get to brag about it.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: Now, when we're in the middle of it.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: You don't brag about it Like Bruno says, no, let the customer.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Get to brag about it.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Now, when we're in the middle of it, you don't brag about it like, like bruno says, no, let the customer.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: But I would hear guys saying yeah, I had a cousin that flew into phoenix and this has happened on the plane.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Do you guys really treat people like that right?
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: yeah, well, and you could, it's, you could take it too far, and we know some people.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: If you said some names, you said, nah, that that's uh.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Now he's glad I hadn't no open mouth kissing yeah.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean exactly, we're not going to.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: You had a fire.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to show up and paint your house tomorrow.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: That's not what we're talking about.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: We're talking about finishing the call.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Basically Is, if there's some little piece that you can do, especially in an emotional way that's going to make the customer feel better, you're authorized to do that.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: That's what added value is.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: So it's that seeing the situation or the incident or the EMS call or whatever in both your professional terms, as we talk about which firefighters should look at that very professional and then understanding the personal viewpoints of the customer.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: So you're looking at it personally and you're looking at professionally because, honestly, I don't think there's a lot of customers who care about our the way we cut a roof or the way we dragged a hose line or the way we did this with our the war face like johnny gage and you do that I remember doing that in the
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: 80s I was there and, uh, all they want to do is how did you treat their grandma?
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: How did you treat and Bruno says it in one of the videos Firefighters can go in the back room of somebody's house and cut the pajamas off their 8-year-old daughter Because they have that kind of trust man that goes away really fast if you're not careful.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Or you do a bunch of self-serving stuff.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: It's just yeah, it's not good.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: And then.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: But it takes consistent management and leadership throughout and it has to start with a vision and it has to be processed every day.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: You can't drop, you can't say, okay, today's the day, I'm not really want to do that added value and it's just.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: They're small things, it doesn't take a lot.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: We're not talking about laying concrete, which we've heard about.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: You can do that, but that's not what we're talking about.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: We're talking about something very nice, very simple.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: You walk away, leaving the people feel they're having a bad day.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: You leave them feel a little bit better about their day when you're done with them, right?
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I worked around a police chief that was not very good with customer service several years ago and guys were getting coffee.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: There was an engine crew getting coffee.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Lady walks up.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: It's raining out, she's crying, she's like I locked myself out of my house down the street.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: I don't have a cell phone, I don't know.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: They put her in the engine, took her back home and started to get her problem solved and she loved the fire department for that.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: The police department was pretty upset that we let a civilian ride inside the engine and it's like well, you guys arrest people all the time.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: You have them cuffed.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you even put them in a seatbelt, they can ride in your cop cars.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Why can't we have somebody ride in the engine?
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: See, that's the reason there's not a prick running the fire department and that's yeah, there you go.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: And that lady was so happy with the fire department at the end of that whole encounter because they helped her take care of her problem.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a 911 problem Because they helped her take care of her problem.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a 911 problem.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: The liability of letting her ride on the fire engine, really.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: I guarantee you that police chief, because I've been in this situation too when he heard about that, he went and had a conversation with his boss, with legal, with finance, with HR, with everybody.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: Did you hear what these guys did?
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: And fire chiefs across the country are sitting across from police chiefs and the police chiefs go.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: Why do people love you?
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Because it happened to me.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: Why do people love firefighters so much?
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't want to defund us?
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Because, yeah, we don't.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: We gave her a ride home, buddy.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: We didn't yell at her, that's it.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: I just worked with a police chief in Glendale, Cut and some of the.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: I just worked with the police chief in Glendale.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Cut their nose off.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: He was a really good guy and he would tease me about it because he loved it.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: He's like Jesus firefighters.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: He goes I saw you guys the other day doing this.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: You know the toughest things we have.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: The toughest call the fire department goes on is any incident where there's no core services to deliver, Because it's like, okay, so now you're doing that's a social ills call.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: It's somebody sleeping on the sidewalk?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Well, no, they're healthy.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: There's nothing, I got nothing.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: There's no value to add, because there's no reason for me to be here right now.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: So those are the ones that you kind of have to.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: All I can leave you with is a little added value, buddy, that's it.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Here's a blanket, yeah, a bottle of water, but past that I don't have a solution for this.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: The fire department does not have a solution for homelessness, for mental instability.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's just certain ills in society that we have to figure out as a group.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: See, the police are the most victimized by that, because theirs is even worse If there is no core services.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Well, if there are core services, they're going to piss everybody off, just the nature of their work.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: And if there aren't, it's that they'll know.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: You don't engage them at this point.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh yeah.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: Earlier this month I'm talking to somebody and they were talking about the Phoenix Fire Department and he had visited here 20 years ago and he told me about the encounter that he had at the fire station and it's exactly as what you guys would expect.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, jeff Griffin was the captain there.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Like he starts describing to me the guy who he's talking to.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: It's like well, that's Jeff Griffin.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: He fell through the roof and he had the whole story and he talked to him and showed him around and made him feel welcome and it's like I wouldn't expect in that era of this fire department, anything different than that.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: That was the example that we all wanted to be was walk around.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: So I talked to another guy who is in a resort town, not where Disney is, but where there's an amusement park and the firefighters there are pissed when anybody comes by and visits.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Like they're just too busy.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: You know they're in the middle of Ohio where there's an amusement park and a lot of tourists and they don't want to have anything to do with it.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: So I kind of wonder, like, how successful is your fire department?
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: I wonder how often the uniform inspections are and what you're really doing for service when you go out there, because if you're pissed about visitors you're in the wrong business.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: So you're right.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: So my wife and I we get there.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking about Carl the German.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are you a visitor at 11?
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: My wife and I get to travel because I'm retired now and we'll go around.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: But I'm not a fire buff.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: I don't stop into fire stations, but it seems like we do a lot of walking in chicago, new york, wherever we go right, and we'll walk by a fire station and about half the time the door's up and the firefighters are there and I'll say hi to them.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: Never say I, I'm a firefighter, I don't wear, I'm not flying colors, and just based on their response I can almost go.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, and luckily, the bigger cities that I'm in, the people, the busy cities, they are really friendly.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: Station 8, you know, the big one that we always hear about walking by there.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Hey, how are you doing?
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: Have a nice evening.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Well, come here.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: What are you doing?
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: Buy a?
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: T-shirt.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Well, station 76 in Chicago, across from Wrigley Field, they love to have visitors.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: I mean they're selling T-shirts, having a good time.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: But they're nice to somebody walking by without a core service need.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: They're going to be nice to people.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Busy stations the busiest stations you have, the friendliest.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: They just love it.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: They'll do anything for you.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: As a BC, the biggest issues I had came out of the slowest stations.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: They had too much time.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: It was like a prison.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: All they did is screwed with each other, Nuts.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Let's put a bow on the added value work part.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: Talk about the conference, the class.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: You're going to do the module when it comes out, Then we'll do a timeless tactical.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: We're going to have an awesome module.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: It's going to be fun.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: We're going to do the module when it comes out.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: Then we'll do a timeless tactical.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: We're going to have an awesome module.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: It's going to be fun.
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: We're going to stand up.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: We're going to discuss all of this and we'll figure what we're going to discuss in about two weeks.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, Nick's already saying that he's going to do whatever you put up on the screen.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: I saw you said that, and so we're actually what we'd like to do.
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: Is that so the introduction?
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: I think Nick's going to place online.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: You guys are here pretty soon.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, In fact, this web, this podcast, we're announcing the first leadership modules up and posted.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: So that's the introduction.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: So so the first function is function number one, the work, and we're going to during our class we we intend to talk about the work and give a little presentation on that.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: We don't have enough time to go into all of it and what it would look like on the online program but, I, think we're going to introduce that.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: We might even share a scenario or two and get some interaction with the people in the class, because we have an opportunity, just like with the blue card.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: You don't have to make this stuff up, right?
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: Like Bruno said, you don't have to plant weeds.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: So we may have a couple scenarios we share with the group and kind of like okay, does this look like it focused on the work and how would you pull this back to focus on the work?
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: We hope to have a lot of fun with that.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: But I think that's about it.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: We're going to try to mostly talk about function one in the work right now, Maybe, Possibly.
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: And at our conference.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: It's probably going to be mostly the work.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what it's going to be.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Well, that absolutely helped me be a great fire chief.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I think and I'm not saying that I'm great I had a philosophy, because of being around Chief Alan Bernasini, that helped our organization be focused on the work, focused on customer service.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: We didn't care about a lot of petty BS and it really served us well, because you know whether it's the goodwill that you're asking for something more personnel, more stations, headquarters, you know whatever it is, you just get along better with people.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just going to be a better deal.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: And you're not doing it, so I get more.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: That's not why.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: I do it because this is my job.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I want to be good at my job.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: That's why and thanks.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a ton of pride and satisfaction that comes out of that too.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's really the self-sustaining part.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Well, you've got people thanking you for your service.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: It's like really Thanks for the pension.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Then you know I took more than I got.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: So that's how I feel.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: Most of us, when we treat somebody fairly bad and we walk away, we don't feel good about it no, no we may tell ourselves we do for about a minute, but you walk in and you go.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: That didn't feel like it.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Being the nice guys and adding value.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: We still would be assholes occasionally, but this would help snap you out of it and align you in the right way.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: It's like not, and there were times you would have a run where you wouldn't sleep for a little while and you would have to think no, I'm going to need therapy or something, but I can't keep doing this.
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: Don't get off the truck.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, sometimes you would need to take a shift or two off.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: We call them mental health days.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: If you took sick leave, that's what it was.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: Well, the department gave you five sick leave occurrences a year, two shifts each occurrence you could take.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: So you could take 10 shifts of sick leave a year without a doctor's note.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: It was authorized by the department.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: You had to have the sick leave in your bank.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the other thing that I want to say before we go.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: What I found out is that when Nick put together this, the introduction, there's three of us teaching.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: It is really cool.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: So we, I think we're going to pull in Bruno's videos, hopefully a little bit at the conference too, because it really is.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: It feels like you talk, I talk, and then we put them on the screen and we're all talking about this.
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: Of course, he has a better way to do it.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: He's like John Madden.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Do you miss John Madden?
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yes.
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was John Madden he was In fact John Madden.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Madden.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Football, the video game, biggest selling sports video game of all time.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: There were two video guys that made that programmers and they called Madden and got hooked up with him because he was the most famous guy you know Monday Night Football.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: And they said we want you to be the commentator for this.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: And they started up and they only wanted like four or five players on each team because it was going to because processing you couldn't do back when they started doing it and have the same experience.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: And John Madden says, oh, okay, well, thank you for asking me, but I can't help you with your project.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: And I said well, why not?
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: He says well, because football is played with 11 people on each side of the ball and you ain't doing football.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I said okay.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: He said okay, I'll stay.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: And he stayed and then Focus on the work.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: That was the work, stayed and then focus on that was the work.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: It was the work.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: So john madden says so, like nfpa staffing standards.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: So you're like, well, no, you can't do anything.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: John madden did it.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man that's it I love it so that's it, so we're gonna pull that in so look forward to that too.
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: We're gonna have him in the room with us avb.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: There's no videos of me and garrison in the intro module.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: It's all alan brunicini there's one picture of the two ofison in the intro module.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: It's all, alan Brunicini.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: There's one picture of the two of us so I can introduce us.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: It's this picture, yeah.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: He's the only one speaking.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: So whether you see this at the conference or you get online and start the Silverback first module, you're going to get a taste of one way or the other.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: You don't have to be at the conference.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: You'll see what it is, you'll see what it is.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: It's going to be fantastic.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you guys bringing it, because this is how to operate a fire department.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, if people are looking for the secret sauce, you guys are going to reveal the recipe of the secret sauce during these modules, and it's so simple man.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: It's ketchup.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Hey man, it's just doing your job, it's easy.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: I'm more of a mustard guy.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Ketchup on fries yes, all day long, but never on a burger.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Want to do a timeless tactical truth Every day.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: All right, all right.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Timeless tactical truth, and today's timeless tactical truth from Alan Bernasini it is neither wealth or splendor, but tranquility and occupation which gives happiness.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Buddha.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: See, we just called him John Madden and I was thinking on the John Madden thing is that?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: But there were times that he would ask me a question at a conference, chief Garrison, chief G, and he'd ask me'd go, bruno, I'm sorry, I don't have a clue what you just said.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: Can you dummy that down for a V-shifter, so could you read that again, because I think most people want to hear that more than once, it is neither wealth nor splendor, but tranquility and occupation which gives happiness A job.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Well done, man.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: I contributed the way I was supposed to.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: I was part and that's kind of the.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: When you look at like an engine, one ladder, four, those are crews and you have a role within that crew.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: You got to do your part for that crew to be effective.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: So that's the whole thing.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: It's all geared off the work we do.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: That's why we're here and you know, and that's that applies so much as a leader at any level right, whether you're supervisor or whether you're the fire chief, and it also applies in the cool command concept that Nick kind of talked about on the fire ground too.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: But that tranquility part where you really feel like I am comfortable with the way that we just talked about, how you feel uncomfortable when you're not nice to people.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: Later you walk away going that just I feel like I need to shower, or you know, because I didn't do very well that was it being comfortable, like managing the strategy that's what tranquility to me is.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: It's like comfortable in your position, comfortable in your own skin, comfortable in the fact that some guy's wearing some goofy shoes and instead of taking a picture of it and sending it to the fire chief, like I have received as a fire chief chief, what are you going to do about this?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're being nice is working well.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: This guy's wearing crocs at work.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: I don't give a shit if he's wearing crocs at the fire station.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: Maybe he has a corn, I don't know.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: But it's like go back to speech.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: That guy's not tranquil, that guy's not enjoying.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Whoever that leader is that sent me that he was not enjoying that.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: But if he would have walked up to that.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: No, he should have been a police chief you could have walked up to that guy and says, hey, nice shoes, but you know, today we're, we're different shoes.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: Today I like you, you, whatever it is.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: But instead it goes to a chain of command.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: I'm sitting in my office, I get this letter with a picture of the guy's shoes budruckery called him and it's like dude, you could have solved all that you know, I remember bruno talking about gotcha management style, that's it.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Like the people who are just waiting lying in wait to try to catch somebody doing something.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: There's no tranquility in gotcha, yeah.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: Well, like the shoe thing.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Somebody was talking about a meeting he had with a bunch of captains and the captains came in and they were bitching that they couldn't get their crews to dress properly, to wear the right uniform, their crews to dress properly, to wear the right uniform, and his first reaction is he wanted to fire those two captains that were bitching about that.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Like, you shouldn't even be captains, in fact, you shouldn't even be affiliated with this organization.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: You're a supervisor on the fire department and you can't get them to wear the right uniform.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: A flight attendant can get 150 people to put a seatbelt on that don't want to do it and you don't want to do your job, and I knew who those—and he should have.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Those guys were the worst captains, but they always had the right uniform on.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: They just couldn't get their crew to do it.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: And not good.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: You can't trust them to do that.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: How do you trust them to manage a fire or a hazard zone?
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: Well, we're talking about tranquility.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Like just people upset your tranquility, like you're the IC and like the strategy you're not tranquil with it.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: Well, you need to change the strategy then.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: No, they shouldn't be inside.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you go inside and put the fire out.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: You know if they're younger and not, you know Sometimes you have to be a little more, but most of the time it was.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: No, it's time to get out.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: This is not going to look well in another three or four minutes.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: Here's the difference between a guy who does his job and enjoys it and a guy who's not very good at it and doesn't totally understand it.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: Think surfing.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: When I go out surfing I am scared to death of sharks, waves, drowning boats.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: And I look over at the dude and he's tranquil.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: And he's an eight foot catching the wave, toes in the front of the board, rocking and rolling his hair.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: Don't even mess up, that guy's enjoying his tranquility.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: I'm out here on my board, that's.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: That's.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: That's where that'd be nice to be a supervisor or a leader like that.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: I'm comfortable enough to throw my toes out, throw my head back and just kind of be tranquil because I know what the hell I'm doing, I know what's happening around me and it doesn't scare me, right that's yeah I don't know why I thought of that.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: That's just what he said yeah man, yeah.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: Well, that guy surfed a lot more than you did.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: Hang loose, bro.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: All right, that's it guys.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being on this.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: B-shifter.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Thanks to Nick and Terry Silver back leadership.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Look for it if you're a blue card user, or we'll see you with it at the conference too.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: There's a couple ways you're going to get that.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Yeehaw.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: Until next time.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening to B-Shifter.