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Genuine, Authentic Scouting - DuJuan Daniels · Scouting the League

• Rodrik David: A longtime NFL scout, three rings, many titles. Dewan Daniels, now owner of Ascend Football, joins Neil and I today as we talk his playing days, the Patriots, the Raiders, and more here on Scouting the League. But before we jump in, of course, I get to tell you, remind you to like, subscribe, and share this podcast wherever you are listening and watching. Hit those buttons, comment. That all really helps us out. I am Roderick David, former NFL Scout, now owner of Wrightep Advising. You can find me at rsafootball.com and on Twitter at Wright StepADV. Make sure you check out thescoutingcommunity.com. If you are a scout or an aspiring scout, everything I am doing to help those in the industry that want to be in the industry. There are some holes that NFL teams need to fill, but until they do, I'm going to step in and help out there. So thescoutingcommunity.com is the spot for that. Make sure you check out our partners over at blueMaka.com as well. Use code SCOUTING20 at checkout to let them know we send you get a discount on that pair of insoles that will upgrade every pair of shoes you have. Neil Stratton is of course on today and at inside the league.com. Inside the league.com is his website, as well as being on Twitter. Neil, of course, joins us. Every Wednesday on our long format episodes and is awesome at what he does. Duan is at Nap Legend and his new company, Ascend Football, is at Ascend underscore FB. All those handle handles will be in the show notes, so you can check them out there. Make sure you check out the two draft scouting series episodes this week. Offensive tackle Blake Frazier of Michigan and safety Bray Hubbard at Alabama, some good football players that I think will hear their names called in 2027. Every episode in that draft scouting series with film up on YouTube. Check it all out there. But today is all about guest Duan Daniels. So let's get to it. Well Dewan Daniels, welcome to Scouting the League. DuJuan Daniels: Appreciate it, guys. Thanks for having me, man. Been waiting to do this for a long time, man. So thanks for having me. Rodrik David: Yes, it's it's you know something that Neil and I experience when you're with a team, and the bosses sometimes say, Hey, let's let's let the scouts stay behind the scenes. Most scouts are really happy doing that, but man, ascend football, you're out in front now. We will get to that. But again, it's nice to nice to get you out here a long, you know, really successful scouting scouting journey. I think you got three big ring rings. You got the Lombardi there behind you. Again, all stuff we'll get to. But before we get to the scouting, Again, behind the Lombardy even, again, part of your origin story, Mr. Indiana football. Talk about football, growing up, getting into it, kinda talk your origin story. DuJuan Daniels: yeah, man. So I mean, born and raised in Indianapolis, Indiana, it's crazy, man. you know, in the commise in town, man, I grew up like 10 minutes from downtown, just north north of downtown. had the opportunity to go to a really good high school, really successful high school, Bishop Chittard here on the north side of Indianapolis. kind of a powerhouse program, small school powerhouse, two and three A here in Indiana. you know, seventeen state championships, Bishop Chittard has won. I was lucky enough to be on one of those teams and had a good career there and was fortunate enough to win state championship my senior year and be named Indiana Mr. Football. So it was a pretty special year in nineteen ninety seven. Rodrik David: Yeah, absolutely. And then from there you head to Boston College. You keep the playing career going. again, was that, hey, I'm gonna go to big time football, I'm gonna go play in the NFL. Was NFL always the dream? DuJuan Daniels: that was always the dream, man. You know, you wanna you wanna have the opportunity to play in the National Football League. and also, you know, a big thing in mine was getting a great education. you know, growing up in a Catholic family, going to Catholic schools. There's only two in the country that played Division I football, and Boston College was one of those places. So that really appealed to me, you know, growing up as a kid, graduating from Bishop Sheitard and then, you know, matriculating to Boston College. Neil Stratton: When you got to BC, turns out you were kind of a jack of all trades there, Dewan. Was that your idea? Was that the coach's idea? How how did that kind of evolve? DuJuan Daniels: You know, i in high school, that's funny you asked that question. In high school, everybody wants to touch the ball, man. They wanna, you know, they want to run the ball, catch touchdowns, and do all that stuff. But it was kind of up in the air. Are you gonna be a DB, a receiver, kind of a hybrid player before, you know, hybrid players existed, returned some kickoffs and punts. But when I got there, I had that Maroon jersey in my locker. I went straight to corner my first day of practice. So, you know, that wasn't really in the deck of cards, but you know, it worked out. Rodrik David: Yeah, absolutely. So spend four years there. I believe you were a four year letter winner. Again, it it's something the the NFL, man, it's it's one thing to get to the NFL. It's a completely different as a player. You don't get the shot, but hey, you find your way into an NFL building. Talk about that transition where, hey, maybe it's not going to be playing, but man, I can be around football. I can do this scouting thing. Again, early 2000s, it was still not what it is today. Where, man, scouting. Scouts were largely behind the scenes. We didn't have the draft coverage like it is today. Talk about that transition getting into the scouting department with the with the Patriots. DuJuan Daniels: Yeah, man, it was kind of a along early on, like a a wavy road, man. I was actually I coached at a small school for a year in Lamona, Iowa, Graceland University, a NAI school, was receivers coached there and taught leadership courses for a season. I wound up coming back to Indianapolis and I was actually a high school academic advisor and offensive coordinator at my rival high school cathedral here in Indianapolis that's produced a lot of players over the years. You know, Mark Clayton, Terry McLaurin, Jack Doyle, just a really strong program, Jeremy Trueblood, all those guys came out of cathedral, man. So it was a great opportunity as a young professional to gain some experience, you know, working with kids in addition to coaching ball. And I'm sitting in my office one day, watching tape with players, my phone rings, and it was one of my best friends from college, Brian Flores. And at the time, he was a scouting assistant with the Patriots. And he goes, hey man, we have an opportunity here potentially from as a scouting assistant role opened up and interviewed two days later. And two weeks later, pretty much I was in Foxborough, man, as a scouting assistant. So all about relationships, you know, and working from the ground up. And, you know, my relationship with Brian and both playing at Boston College kind of led to my my first job in the NFL. Neil Stratton: Now did Flo was Flores taking a shot in the dark, Dewan, or d had you expressed an interest in scouting beforehand? DuJuan Daniels: Well, once he got on with the Patriots, I was blowing his phone up all the time. You know how that goes, man. Hey, you got you got the opportunity, like, let me know if something comes up. You know, and in that building, man, it it's a tough, it's a grind. And it's rare that, you know, you can recommend somebody that you really trust to do the job that won't make you look bad. So I actually had known Brian since high school, even before before Boston College. We, you know, went to football camp in Notre Dame together and developed a relationship. So Rodrik David: Yeah. DuJuan Daniels: You know, he felt comfortable recommending me and it was my job not to let him down and to do a good job. Rodrik David: Yeah. And that's again one of the unique things, more unique things about the Patriots among the many that they had from really two thousand to we'll say twenty twenty, again, twenty year stretch, Bill Belichick, is that scouting and coaching side and how they coexisted. Again, a coach, Coach Flores calls you up a lot of these guys from Casario to again to Ziggler and a bunch of these front office guys, they did a year or two. kind of on dabbling on the coaching side, was it, hey, I'm gonna come into New England, be a scout, or was it, hey, let's go to New England and just see what happens? DuJuan Daniels: Right. I think early on, you know, pretty much everybody that came through the the system did a at least a year of both. And then they kind of were placed in the department that best fit them. toward the end of my tenure there, that wasn't as as as popular, you know, but I think it's really important that you see both sides of the organization and how everything works together and fits. Because really, man, it is that you have to coexist. And have the same, you know, understanding of the systems, you know, whether it's player evaluation, player development, you know, on-field play and all those things, man, it really helps your development. Rodrik David: So Duane, you said as your career went in New England, the longer you were there, it became less popular, maybe less common to get that experience, both coaching side, scouting side. Was that, hey, the game of football has changed? You've got to be an expert in one or the other. Was that something, hey, Coach Belichick changed? Was it the front office changed? What do you think that that reason why it kind of went by the wayside was? DuJuan Daniels: Yeah, like probably around the time that that Scott Peoli left and transitioned to Kansas City, there was less correlation between coaching and scouting in terms of you know, ground level jobs. You know, like I'd say probably Brian Ferenc was probably the last guy who probably did it. Nick Lombardi was there, did it, Chris Sims. and around that time there was less of a focus on You know, the the correlation between coaching and and scouting, you know, because a lot of guys come in. Sometimes you want to say, Hey, do you want to coach or you want scout? You know, some guys come in trying to wiggle through the door, I'm gonna really want to coach, but scouting is my way in. So you know how that goes, man. the game evolved and I think the popularity of scouting also evolved and more opportunities were created from from you know, young Professionals coming from the college ranks, wanted to get into scouting as college departments expanded as well. So that probably had a little bit to do with it, in my personal opinion. Neil Stratton: Dewan, do you think you would have been as happy having a coaching career as you have had a scouting career? DuJuan Daniels: No, I do not. once I got into scouting, it really elevated, I thought, my overall understanding of the entire organization and not just coaching. early on I thought I was gonna be a coach. Everybody thought Brian Flores was gonna be a scout just based off our personalities. It kind of completely flipped, you know, once we really got into what we wanted to do in our careers. So until you really do it and you're in it. I don't think you really know, but I fell in love with scouting quickly, you know, once I got my feet wet, you know, in player personnel. Rodrik David: What was it about scouting? Cause I believe you went scouting assistant and you kinda hit the what we'd call the traditional scout, scouting track. Scouting assistant, area scout, you know, regional, national, just kind of moved your way up through the what we'd call Road Scouts. What was it about your personality, your fit that allowed you to just kind of find your spot and hit your stride? DuJuan Daniels: Man, being out on the road, meeting people, seeing different parts of the country, being able to cultivate relationships more. You know, even as a recruit, you know, you see some of these coaches that might have recruited you. and they're like, you're a scout now. Just every day was a different day. No day was the same. And that kept me motivated, always wanting to find the next gym possibly. You know, it's easy to find the good ones, man, but uncover somebody, you know. so for me, That's what really lit that fire, you know, in in in my heart, man, because, you know, I was doing the Northeast, right? I mean, a lot of places to get to, not easy to navigate, but there's guys you gotta find them, you know. And for me, that was always was always cool to maybe bring somebody up, man, that you know, was under the radar per se. Rodrik David: Yeah. Yeah, certainly. Dewan that was one of the unique things about New England too is correct me if I'm wrong, but your time in New England, you were not part of either Blesto or NFS, which means, hey, you don't get a list. Go out, master your rosters, know every one of these schools, and go find guys. Talk about the the good things, the good things that taught you as a scout, but on the other side, some of those challenges that not getting any information. DuJuan Daniels: No. Rodrik David: this summer leads as you get ready for your fall. DuJuan Daniels: Better strap up your boots, put your hard head on, and get to it because it's not easy, man. I mean, you are your list, you know, and you learn pretty quickly. Like when you're a scouting assistant and you and you think you know, you really don't know. because you know what you're doing. You're inputting injuries, you're doing background searches, you're trying to get any kind of information to get, you know, height, weight, speeds. You know, you have to really hustle and get all that information at the time. You have to input that manually. So Rodrik David: Yeah. DuJuan Daniels: You're talking stats. I mean, this is this is pre AI, man. So all this this work, you know, that's on you. So when you actually get the privilege of going out on the road and actually thinking you know how to scout, you have a a real respect for the Blesto and and and and national, you know, scouts, NFS scouts, man, because I hated it. But every time I go to a school and somebody say, Well, this guy, why is he on the list? Or why isn't this guy on the list? I'm like, man, make your own list, like You know, they're not here to do your job. You know, it's a starting point. It helps. But really get your hands dirty, you know, really go out there and and and and navigate. You know, so for me, being trained as a scattering assistant and having a respect for what those guys did, man, I I and women now too. is really you really have a respect for that. Neil Stratton: All so Dewan in 2013, here's who's here's who you're on staff with. Nick Casario, John Robinson, Jim Lipford, Dave Ziggler, and you. All of them have either been GMs or senior NFL scouting executives, including yourself, obviously. Now, here's a question the chicken or egg. Was the Patriots success because of having such a talented front office? Or did those people, including yourself maybe, get opportunities because of what was happening on the field with Patrick. DuJuan Daniels: 100% man, you gotta win. You know, I I I tell high school kids all the time, I don't see, you know, a bunch of P4 players on losing teams. Just, you know, winning. You know, people want to see what what your sauce is, what you do, you know. So for me, man, it's just it's just winning more than anything. But it's all about the players. so when it comes down to finding the right players that fit your systems. And also, you know, having the coaches that can develop those players as well. So it's a combination of everything. And it's really, it's a really tough formula to replicate. It really is, because what happens a lot of times that I've seen is that people get opportunities or got opportunities outside of our building. Well, if you're not allowed to bring anybody with you, all right, it's hard to replicate that sauce, all right, and get people to buy in right away. You know, you may know a lot, but who are you gonna hire? You're the head coach, let's say, of the Detroit Lions, but you've only been a coach for the New England Patriots. So it's about building that staff around you and not just I would say necessarily the best people, but the right fits to work with you long term. So I mean that's kind of how I view that. Rodrik David: Yeah, I've heard again there's many, many good head coaches who have, you know, roster turnover, you expect it. You've got either recruit it, you've got a hidden free agency hitting the draft, but losing those coaches, losing the core of your front office. Again, yeah, I've heard it said as nausea, like that that becomes really difficult. And again, it goes to both New England. Again, it's a credit to the sustained success. And again, there were there were really two guys who were there. For a really long time and Bill and Tom. but again, that were able to sustain that. But again, you you lose people. And then again, to your point, it's really hard to replicate it. You have a great plan in mind. We've seen it with, you know, Nick has been very successful. There's been plenty of other side of the coin. Again, just br didn't bring the right people or couldn't get the right people. again, so hard to to replicate that. Was that again, is you headed to again kind of transitioning, talking about. what you did with the Raiders heading over Mike Mayo comes from a completely different background. Talk about what you guys were trying to do, maybe what worked, what was kind of falling just short of you guys hitting what you wanted. DuJuan Daniels: Yeah, and would say just to backtrack a little bit, we always had a plug-and-place system in place. So whether you were a coach or you were a scouting assistant or an area scout, the next person was already up, trained properly, and ready to roll. So even though you lost somebody, I feel like we were able to sustain because the next person was in place. And if they weren't able to take on more responsibilities, quite frankly, they just wouldn't have been there. they wouldn't have made it that far. So to me, that's that's the key. going to the Raiders, man, it was it was it was very unique. obviously the team headed to Las Vegas was awesome. it was also during COVID. a lot of different things were going on, man. but the one thing that I I feel like we we had great people in place, but were they the right people to work together? If that makes sense from a scouting standpoint. Really good people, really experienced, just just great scouts, great people, a lot of knowledge, but it all has to mesh together. It's kind of like when you're building a defense, right? All right, the the front end has to match the back end on every call. If not, you got problems, you got holes. but I feel like every year we won more games when Mike was there, wound up getting to the playoffs. Neil Stratton: Yeah. Yeah. DuJuan Daniels: in a very crazy season and losing to the Cincinnati Bengals on the last play of the game, who wound up going to the Super Bowl. but then things got reset. You know, what would have happened, I don't know. But that's what happened. but I really felt like early on, man, we were on our track to each year, you know, keep improving. But unfortunately we weren't able to do that. Neil Stratton: Now, Dewan, I think 24 years in scouting, obviously with two teams, two storied franchises, you've worked with a lot of people. Who's the best, most talented scouting executive you've met you've worked with who was never a GM or has not been a GM yet? Who's the guy? Hasn't gotten the glory that he probably deserves? DuJuan Daniels: Yes. You know, this is this is it's it's a great question. And I look at a guy that's actually older, someone that I actually was on the road with a lot when he wasn't working with me. And you know, I thought that was Andy Dangler. To be honest, you know, Andy was always he's worked with the Jacksonville Jaguars for a long time. Great s great scout, great person, great individual. Andy was always willing to live lend a helping hand to young scouts when I first started. As I got older and more advanced, when I saw him and it was me and him, we were gonna have a great time together, it was gonna be a great day. And we were gonna get stuff done the right way, get the information, and hopefully we were going to the next stop together the next day. but I looked at a lot of it's hard to just name one or two people because we we had a lot of a lot of cats, man. when I was a scouting assistant, I mean we're sitting back there, it's myself, it's James Lipford. It's Mike Disner and Pat Stewart. Like pretty solid crew. So if you're not, if you're not holding up your end of the bargain, you had to go. And Trey Brown came after that. So, you know, the plug and play thing was very real. So all those guys, I feel like, I mean, Jim Naggies of the world. I mean, we work together, Adam Peters. So a lot of really talented people over the years, you know, that in my opinion, man, all deserve a shot to sit in that seat and and run a football team. Neil Stratton: That's a that's pretty much a who's who. And before we go forward, obviously, Andy won the twenty twenty six CO Brocado Memorial Award, so you're not the only p person who's a fan of of Andy, obviously. DuJuan Daniels: Yeah, love it. Love it. Yep. Love that dude, man. Was was great to work with. So great friend. Rodrik David: Yeah. Again. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of on the flip side of that question. Again, you've worked with a bunch of a bunch of guys who have sat in that big seat. Again, from Nick Casario, who's, you know, got that Houston team rolling now. Again, Coach Belichick, who again head coach GM. You got Scott Pioli, you already referenced him. He headed to Kansas City. You crossed over with you know, my GM that hired me, Thomas Dimitroff, Mike Mayoff, Dave Dave Ziegler, of course. What were some of the maybe one or two lessons from these guys that again w either it was a common theme or something that you picked from each one of them that you kind of put in your tool bag for for your your career. DuJuan Daniels: Yeah, I bring up mean John Robinson to me was one of those guys that was forward thinking. So was Thomas, very forward thinking. But but J. Rob, what he did was he he taught me how to be extremely detailed and organized. in terms of every year, okay, evaluate yourself. All right, what's working, what's not working. you know, if you hit on a player, why'd you hit? And if you miss, why'd you miss? Go back. Rodrik David: Mm-hmm. DuJuan Daniels: Do some some personal evaluation, self-evaluation to really see how you can improve. And then just pretty much meshing the staff together. a lot of times, you know, as you advance, people are not able to be the same guy as they were previously. and they they change. You know, to me, as long as you can continue to be yourself, you know, while also maintaining the professional relationship, all right, and having people understand you have a job to do and responsibilities. I to me I thought J. Rob did a really good job at that. Neil Stratton: Duan, let's I want you to brag for a minute, okay? And we know that there's there isn't one scout that there's there's so many great stories about, yeah, I found this guy, whatever. We know that it's a whole department that finds players and makes picks and all those kind of things. But come on, man, I know you. You there have been guys that you stood on the table for that really worked out. Give me a name, give me two names of guys that you felt like it was something in your gut that this guy's gonna be a player. You went too bad for him and it turned and you turned out to be right. DuJuan Daniels: I mean, let's see, I know you're gonna that's always. No, I think a player that really stands out to me is Julian Edelman. and I feel like not just as a scouting staff, but as a coaching staff, we did a great job of fully embedding the player and his potential of what he could be. you know, to be honest, I know some teams that rejected the player, didn't even like him at all. He could do nothing. Which happens. Look, every you're not gonna hit on everybody. We all know that. But to go work this guy out as a running back, a receiver, a defensive back, a punt returner, you know, I don't think many people saw that coming, you know, from from Jillian Edelman. You know, somebody that's one of the greatest to me playoff receivers of all time. You know, the numbers prove that. one of the best teammates, just outstanding man, great personality, you know, early on. You put the tape on when Bill wouldn't have the numbers on the players during the offseason. And you're like, is that Wes Welker or is that Elton? Like, who is it? Early on, we're like, We we got something, you know. And it took him some time to develop. You know, hit a couple injuries, but from where he started to where he finished, man, pretty special. Rodrik David: Mm-hmm. Neil Stratton: When you were going through the process on element, here's a quarterback at a Mac school. Were you looking at him as a guy that could do what he wound up being or or was it let's see kind of where he fits? He's too much of an athlete to to pass up. DuJuan Daniels: Yeah, he's just really, really good football player. And to be honest, at that point in the draft, I think, you know, if you wait around for a player like that and you think you're gonna get that player in free agency, good luck. You know, as a UDF. It's just, you know, it's unlikely you're gonna be bitten against 30 teams that think they can probably do the same thing. We can get him after the draft. so late round pick, if you like the player, take him every time. You know, draft a good football player. Rodrik David: Yeah, draft good football players and yeah, you end up having a good football team. Dewan, before we talk about Ascend and what you're doing now as you are transitioning out of the scouting side to a certain degree. again, we've talked a lot about hey, the last 20, 25 years, scouting's changed, football's changed, certainly lends itself into the role you are, not just, you know, agent N I L agent and what that means. Talk about the game of football and how it's changed. What has changed for the better? And what challenges, what are the things like, man, this has no place in the game and we need to find a way to get rid of it. DuJuan Daniels: I'll tell you what I hate first. I hate NFL rules on pass interference. Just chuck the ball deep, man. You know, and getting, you know, 70 yard game. You know, that can we get that changed? All right, let's just that's number one thing I hate. But one thing that you talked about the game developing and we've seen it in basketball, right? Positionless players, guys that can do multiple things. Rodrik David: Yeah, there we go. Yep. DuJuan Daniels: I feel like early on in my career in New England, we were kind of ahead of the curve doing that. You know, you had interchangeable parts. We were a game plan specific team on offense and defense. But you know, if you look at defense, sometimes you'd say, all right, you have Kyle Vanoy, Dante Hightower, Rob Ninkovich, and Jamie Collins. Can play on the ball, can play off the ball, can play in base, can play in sub. That presents a lot of problems. You got a couple big bodies inside too that can stop the run, whether it's in coverage, pressure packages, or whatever. So I think now you're seeing it more. Obviously, the Seahawks did a great job this year, right? Finding some of those hybrid players. You know, I look at a guy we had, Patrick Chung, who was basically a you know, a big nickel. Could support the run. All right, could cover in short area, would hit the quickness to cover man-to-man, cover zone, instinctive. So I think that's what's really changing big time is finding these players that can do multiple things that don't have to come off the field. And when you can do that, all right, you can cover, especially on defense, and you can still support the run and stop guys. That way, it's difficult to deal with. Rodrik David: Yeah. Yeah, certainly. Again, that again it it kind of goes back to the point of the it's it's one of the tough things that happens in scouting conversations is coaches like, Hey, we've got a role for this guy. And it's like, well, he's he's just an outstanding football player, which again, there's a time and a spot for those guys, but again, when you get your rare, again, there there's not many again, our Heisman trophy winner that's in Jacksonville now. Again, there's not many Travis Hunters. Troy Brown, again Troy Brown was Travis Hunter at a time. Again, maybe at a different level, but again, he's playing on both sides out of again, team need. Again, that that hybrid position. Hey, let's find good football players. Again, it's we we've talked about it with Baltimore before. Again, how does Kyle Hamilton fall? Well, there's no there's no specific spot for him. He's just an outstanding football player. Again, certainly something we're seeing a little bit more of. So DuJuan Daniels: Yeah. And I see I see it a lot too. You you draft a guy, right? And you think you have a guy that can do all these different things and you don't have a plan for him. So so what do you really have? You know, your staff has to be on board with those players and have real conviction, knowing there may be some growing pains, but how are you gonna utilize this player? 'cause a lot of times, you know, everybody has these these big expectations, but it doesn't come to fruition at the end of the day. So Rodrik David: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why that scouting staff and coaching staff have to be in lockstep. Again, we can love the traits, but if there's no roll for again, it's one of the hard pills to swallow. It's like, hey, we just c as much as we love this player, we just can't take him because again, the coach is gonna be mad at him. He doesn't want him in the room and again we've seen that. And unfortunately those players wasted draft picks and then they go somewhere else and they just absolutely ball out and it's like, Well, yeah, we kinda told you so, but Again, one of the tough parts of the game. So go ahead, Neil. Neil Stratton: Dewan, so twenty five years on the NFL side. I I I talk to scouts all the time who are saying, Hey man, where how can I get an opportunity on the college side? I'm seeing all this money being spent on all those kind of things. I try to tell them, listen, to some degree, there's a little bit of an apples and oranges thing between the college side and the NFL side. For weeks I've been we've been trying to get you on here and you've been busy with official visits and all those kind it's a different calendar. Are you comfortable yet? What what grade would you give yourself as far as being comfortable with that transition to being on a very different side of things now? You're talking about recruiting rather than drafting. I mean it do you feel like you got both feet on the ground as a guy who's now on the NIL side of things? DuJuan Daniels: I do feel like our my feet are on the ground, myself around my my partner, Randy Fisher, you know, he's a certified NFL PA contract advisor man. He's not only, you know, he's he's actually been in the courtroom, you know, he's actually practiced law. That's different, right? you can have a law degree, but have you actually practiced law in the courtroom? Have you, you know, we always say I I tell him like if you he was death penalty certified, right? So if he can negotiate someone's life if they live or die. We can handle an NIL deal. Like, we're good. So it on our end of things, it's it's really interesting because we walk in the building and I know these guys. Right? So there's not gonna be any fluff for our players. It's been really cool to for to to see guys on the other side that he walked into University of Texas or Clemson or LSU, you know, name it. Neil Stratton: Yeah. DuJuan Daniels: in Alabama and you were able to have real football discussions and they respect the fact that the players that we're going to be sending to them have been thoroughly vetted as people and football players. You know, we're very big on quality over quantity, which is very important to us. And you know, our model is a little bit different than other places. That's not for everybody. but it's been really interesting over this last call it 10 months to really, you know, get into this thing, man. It it's it's really interesting. Rodrik David: Yeah. So you're the you're the owner GM. Again, as owner, you that means you get a do it all of Ascend football. Talk about again going from scouting. Hey, again, we know veteran scouts, I'd I'd imagine the phone ring, I'd imagine some phone calls were made. Let's keep pursuing scouting or let's man, let's take this NIL, this representation thing, and let's run with it. Talk about Ascend and kind of kinda how that got going. DuJuan Daniels: Yeah, man. So actually my partner, Randy Fisher, we were actually neighbors here in Indianapolis, Indiana, where I live. I didn't know what he did. He didn't know what I did. We kind of had the pool one day, got to talking, you know, small talk. You know, Nick Seriani was one of our neighbors in the same neighborhood when he's with the Colts. So we had a lot of fun just talking ball in the swimming pool with our kids. and that relationship was cultivated over time. So it wasn't something that just popped out of nowhere. it was all about timing and also with the right. Neil Stratton: Small world. DuJuan Daniels: person, you know, to partner with to do things the right way and sharing the same values and developing our own systems that we feel we can help families with and our players with to be successful. You know, I think my background as as a you know high school guidance counselor when you're talking about high school and college players go a long way. and it's it's a different landscape. And I'll be honest with you. I mean we all know that there's some people out here that are not Being kind, very good people that work in the business as well. You know, what we're trying to do is eliminate that. You know, I can tell you that, you know, I was in the NFL for X amount of years and I evaluate players and have been pretty successful at it. You know, Randy can tell you that he's negotiated plenty of contracts. our media team, marketing. So we have all those things in place that we feel like, you know, we can really take off and really, you know, help a lot of families and players with the things they need, you know, moving. Neil Stratton: One, you it's no secret that you take your faith seriously, Roderick and I do too. Is it easy to practice in the industry? Do you find that people are accepting of that? Or do you feel like they're kind of like, okay, well, you do your thing, but I'm a I'm gonna be guided by own by my own set of principles. I mean, bringing your faith into the game and into your day to day, has that been a struggle for you professionally? DuJuan Daniels: I would say I I I try to pour into people as much as I can. I never lead with it, you know, but I'll I always try to embark those things when when appropriate. You know, I think a lot of people say they believe in God, right? But do they really have faith? That's two different things. You said you believe in God, yeah, I think there's there's a God out here. It's Jesus, yeah, I believe in Jesus. But like, do you trust him to lead you in the right direction? You know, to help families, you know, like I don't see my own family. You know, there was a lot of days, man, I didn't, I wasn't home. Let's be honest. You know, I have a son that just turned 13. I have another son who's six. We got a long way to go. so being able to be around them and teach them those lessons, man, and you know, important to them, you know, in terms of of being a good person, having faith, you know, living the right way, those are things that that Randy and I really try to try to help people with, man, with the sin football. Rodrik David: Yeah, absolutely. That faith portion, the relationship portion. Again, you talked about it again, the first opportunity with New England, again, relationship with Brian Flores. You talked about again, relationship with my Mike Mayock gets you, you know, to to Las Vegas. Relationships now. It's one of the hardest things to tell young, aspiring scouts, people that want to be in the industry is like cultivate, invest in the relationship. It's going to take some time. What within relationships specifically, like what advice are you giving people? Like I want to work in this industry, football, scouting, coaching, maybe it's on the agent side. What are you telling them from a relationship standpoint what they can do to to find their way? DuJuan Daniels: To be honest, man, I I think I I try to tell them to be genuine. You know, too many people in the profession, in my opinion, it it's all about no pun intended, ascending quickly, right? And not not being ethical in a lot of the things that you're doing just to elevate your personal career. that's not the way to do things. You know, every time I came across somebody, a lot of times, you know, a young scout at a school by myself, you know, I tried to always just give them as much knowledge as I could in a genuine way and say, hey, if you need some help, hey, don't hesitate to hit my phone. I may not get back to you, you know, right away, but I'll get back to you. And to me, that's what's most important. Authentic, genuine relationships. If you can do that and you work hard and you're willing to learn and listen and do things the right way, you'll be fine. You know, typically people that don't do things the right way kinda weed themselves out. because people will figure you out eventually. And you know. Rodrik David: Yeah. Yeah. Neil Stratton: Now, Dewan, we are seeing a lot of movement with respect to how the NCAA is changing things. The White House is getting involved. So many things that are taking place. Do you feel like college football is moving in the right direction as far as some of the changes being incorporated and maybe trying to put some guardrails up or is everything still so much so crazy and so much of a circus that we're Maybe losing control of things. I mean, are we in are are we in a net positive or net direct negative direction with respect to cost fool or right now, in your opinion? DuJuan Daniels: Yeah, Neil, I I think it's that's a good question. Excuse me. It's it's even changing every day. And I think we're still in the emphasis of this whole day. So I don't really have an answer for you right now. You know, but it's changing every day. I will say that when you have ethical people that are certified that have done the job before on both sides of things, it it makes a difference. So my advice would be. Neil Stratton: So much so. Yeah. I guess time will tell. DuJuan Daniels: The rules are the rules right now. But to players and families, I would make sure that if I had somebody representing me, that I really checked into who they are, what their credentials are, and also you know what their backgrounds are in general. Like what type of people are? Call schools, call around, ask coaches. Because if not, you might find yourself in some very dicey situations. So I just, you know, just do your research, do your homework. Rodrik David: Yeah, might just have to DuJuan Daniels: And there's a lot of good people out here, man. A lot of good people. Just make sure you go with good people that know what they're doing. Rodrik David: Might might just have to put your scouting hat on for a minute, do the background check. Again, we the Google machine, the AI machine anymore, man, it it pulls up a lot really quickly. again, Duan, if people want to find more about about you, again, they want to do their go where can people find you? Send football, Instagram, Twitter, where can people find you? Whether it's to get in touch, ask you questions, bounce stuff off you, where where where are you gonna direct them? DuJuan Daniels: Yep. Ascend underscore FB is our social. Ascend underscore FB. Neil Stratton: Is that Insta and Twitter one? Rodrik David: And that's Twitter, Instagram, where where we're at. DuJuan Daniels: Yep, Instagram, Twitter, or X as they call it now. I'm dating myself like I always do, but all three of us did that, so Rodrik David: Always. It's always gonna be Twitter. Neil Stratton: So Rodrik David: That's it's yeah, that's r regardless. We'll we'll we'll have that handle in the in the show notes as we get this one out for everybody. Duana again, summer's not not a time for you to rest. Recruiting, thinking about that twenty twenty seven draft already. I'd imagine you're again having those conversations, but you know, best of luck to we we really appreciate you being on and good luck with the send and everything that's gonna you know be rolling down the pipe here. Fourth of July week and into the into the twenty twenty six fall season. DuJuan Daniels: I appreciate you guys, man. I know it's taking a while to get it organized and get on here, man, but I really appreciate everything you do, you know, for the coaching and scouting community. And anytime you need me, you know where to find me, man. So always here for whatever you need. Thank you. Neil Stratton: Well worth the way, Dewan. We appreciate you coming on, buddy. Best of luck this year. DuJuan Daniels: All right, guys. Thank you.