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The Mentor Sessions: Are You Actually Developing Your People? · The Mentor Sessions

• Ken Elliott: think the gift that Jack gave me was and again it was very subtle. It was almost unspoken, but in his actions he showed me, hey, I believe in you. Whatever it is you think you might want to do, you can probably go do. BigMike Coyle: Welcome everybody back to the mentor sessions. I'm your host, Big Mike. Happy to have you. today we got a great guest. His name is Ken Elliott. Ken is a defense attorney from San Diego, California. One of the things Ken and I first had to hammer out is even though I was on one side of the law and he protects the people on the other side of the law, that doesn't mean we're far apart in our missions and our goals. His job is to make sure everybody gets a fair shot at the at the justice system, which sometimes Let's be honest, it can be unfair to people that don't don't know how the system works. And they're fighting an uphill battle because they're fighting the the government. So I'm so excited to have Ken here with us today. Ken, why don't you go ahead and thanks for joining us and tell us about yourself. Ken Elliott: Well, thank very much for having me. my name is Ken Elliott, like you said. I've been a criminal defense attorney in San Diego for thirty-eight years. born in Southern California, raised in Southern California, came to San Diego State to do my undergraduate, which is actually where I met my first I'll call a major mentor. finished school there. Began law, took a year off, began law school, and during law school I met the individual who became what I would think of as my second major mentor. began practicing night late 1988 with the public defender's office. had a couple of more minor mentors when I first got into the law. got married, had some children, That's really where I began my mentoring experience when my youngest started playing football in the late nineties. I began coaching and I've coached football everywhere from five, six year old flag up to high school. So I've had a lot of opportunity to mentor within that context. And then also as an attorney and of course as a parent and and a lot of different opportunities along the way, and I'm sure we'll talk about a lot of different aspects of mentoring and how some of them are more formal and obvious, and some of them are a lot smaller and a lot less obvious. because I I have adopted that as a really important part of sort of who I am and who I want who I strive to be. I think I know where that comes from in my family. Three of my four grandparents were educators. So it it was sort of impressed upon me early on the importance of sharing the knowledge that you have and and helping others who are trying to come up. I have a lot of thoughts about mentoring, about being a mentor, about how it might apply to the law, which we can get to closer to the end. it's just I think it's a really important topic and I'm glad you're doing this show 'cause I think we could use a lot more positive role modeling and a lot more adopting in a very generic sense other people to help them through mentoring. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, thank you very much. That's very kind of you to say. And and you know, that's one of the things I found out in my life personally is the importance and roles those mentors had on me. and like you said, sometimes they're formal mentors, they're formal they're formal professionals that you you know, be it an educator, be it a a coach, something you and I both share a passion in coaching. And sometimes it's just people that come into your lives and and share lessons that you're like I need to I need to remember that. I need to expand on that. So one hundred percent correct. before we get into law stuff and and you know from our conversations before how much that's important to me and how much I enjoy that conversation, let's let's start running with the football coaching because I know that's something else we both share and are very passionate about and and the role that plays as a coach and also as a player. Ken Elliott: Right. So I was on the team in high school. at the time I weighed all of maybe a hundred and sixty-five pounds, so I didn't play very much. but the the the head coach in particular at my high school sort of took me under his wing. sh taught me a lot about how to deal with people who aren't necessarily stars or the most talented or can't contribute the most to your team. And that's something that I I very much carried with me. As far as my own coaching journey, what it's kind of unusual, I suspect, because I never had any intention of coaching. Because my background in in football in particular was so mediocre, I never really gave much thought to it. But when my younger son signed up for football the first time, we were at this big rec center walking through, going through the whole registration process, of course. My wife at the time, his mother stopped by the registration for coaching table and said, Are you gonna sign up? And I said, Well, you know, no, I I hadn't really given it much thought. I wasn't much of a football player. I'm a football fan, I love football, but I I I you know I don't really necessarily feel qualified to that. And she said to me, quote, let me put it to you this way: if he's playing, you're coaching. And I think it in her mind the idea was to sort of protect my son from the giving away my age here. The Vince Lombardi wannabes. the the people who would take a an unhealthy approach to to coaching and and and to the kids. And you know, I'm glad that that that happened. It ended up changing a lot of things and bringing me a lot of opportunities in my life. and I just picked it up from that first year. Really fell in love with coaching and with being out there with the kids and I stuck with it for, like I say, the better part of twelve years, I think. Coaching, like I say, different age ranges from literally five-year-olds who would draw in the dirt during practice to to high school kids. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, you know, the Vincent Lombardi wannabes are one thing. I'd be more concerned and I've seen this personally in my life and also watching other kids be coaches, the Bobby Knight wannabes that I worry about. That you know, Bobby Knight was a fantastic coach and he had a way of motivating his kids and his players, but his anger was sometimes his downfall and and really really hit him. So coaching at And and that's such a funny story about how your wife's like, let me put it this way, if you want to play, you're gonna coach. that also gave you great opportunity, I think, to bond and build a relationship with your son at the time. Ken Elliott: no doubt. No doubt. the the time that you spend, right, getting ready Driving together to practice, being together over practice. We used to after practice, my son and I would drive through fr frequently and get dinner, because you know, by the time practice is over, normal dinner time's over. So we would drive through, get something to eat, go home and eat together. And then of course on game day, Saturdays, you get up, you get dressed, you know, he's putting on his uniform, he's all excited. I'm putting on my coaching jersey, I'm all excited. We drive out to the spot together and you know you have to get there an hour, hour and a half early. For warmups and weigh-ins and all the things that kids have to do. And then the games themselves, and then sort of depending on how far along the kids were, some form of debrief or discussion after the game about you know what it what did you like, what went well, these are the things that look good to us, you know. And obviously, when they're very, very young, that's an incredibly informal sort of a thing. But by the time you get to high school, it's much more formal. ultimately, my My older son began playing also, and that was a another really positive experience not only because the time we got to spend together, but the team that he played on made it all the way to the Pop Warner Super Bowl at Disney World. So there's a whole trip there, and I'll just tell you that son is now thirty-five years old and and went on to play high school football at a pretty high level, and still I think if you were to ask him today what his favorite memory of football was, he would tell you it was you know, missing the last week of school dur during December to go to Disney World to play football with his friends. So yeah, that there is no completely separate and apart from the mentoring aspect, the amount of time that we got to spend together and the relationships I was able to build with my son and with lots of other kids was really wonderful. I mean to this day, because I still live in basically the same area, I I will be at the grocery store and I will hear someone say hey coach and that's you know twenty two, twenty-three years ago and it's I I much prefer hearing that than hey there's my lawyer you know so yeah I was able BigMike Coyle: Right, right. Yeah, you know I Ken Elliott: to really have good relationships. BigMike Coyle: I was talking about this yesterday on a on a little short reel I did where you know in our lives we wear a lot of different titles. My three favorite titles, Dad, of course. I think even more favorite than that is Pop Op, which is what my grandkids call me. But one of those titles I've come Ken Elliott: Mm-hmm. BigMike Coyle: to really love is coach. Just hearing people, you know, players reach out to me and say, Hey coach, and the weight that that title actually carries. And it helps you remember like who you are. To me, there's a lot of weight in hearing hey coach because that means those those kids and and sometime at these this point, grown men, they still look at you as that role and you need to to Ken Elliott: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: represent that role well. One of the things you you mentioned was the debrief. And I've always felt the debrief was such an important part of any lesson, any you know games, practice. But even just when you're when you're sitting with someone that you're you're talking about what's going on with their life and you do a debrief. What are your thoughts on the importance of a of a good debrief with someone? Ken Elliott: So I think it evolves based on the age of the person you're dealing with, and I think it evolves based on what your exact role in their life is. And and one of the examples I would I would turn to in that regard is my younger son by the time he was early to middle teenager would get very frustrated with me and say things like, you know, hey dad, not everything is a teachable moment. And and what I came to recognize about that was that I was being too heavy or too heavy-handed, if you will, or too trying to be too obvious about lessons themselves within the context of mentorship and a debrief of a situation that might contain a lesson, right? So what I found with him and and it's a it's a lesson I still have to be mindful of, not just with him but with others, is that you you can have that role and you can still accomplish that debrief, but sometimes you're gonna have to just be a lot more subtle about it than than than I was certainly in the beginning. BigMike Coyle: Right. Right. Because when they when they come with that attitude of not everything is a c coachable moment or a teachable moment, you I I know the first thing I would do is push back and say, Yes, everything is. But that pushback is taking away that opportunity to make it Ken Elliott: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: coachable or teachable. So you kinda have to be a little a little subtle about it, you know. I I my my son I I had that experience with him a lot and it's only now that I look back on those things and like, wow, I should have done that differently. I should have helped him come to that conclusion and instead of force that conclusion upon him. So that that's a that's a great point there. Ken Elliott: and I think it's part of it is is role specific depending on what role you're playing with a kid. Like if you're coaching him A lot of times your your time is limited, right? They they they're dropped off at four, they're picked up at six within the context of any given practice, situation, or play, your time to debrief is very short, right? But if it's your son or someone that you have a longer term relationship with, your ability to debrief can be stretched out over time, which also may make it a little less obvious when it happens, right? You're not you know you don't again, you don't have to be as heavy-handed or is upfront about it if you've got that type of relationship call. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, I understand that completely. Ken Elliott: So that that yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry. BigMike Coyle: No, I was just agreeing with you on that. I understand exactly what you're saying. Ken Elliott: I think I think I BigMike Coyle: Because because the thing the thing is Ken Elliott: I've had BigMike Coyle: I was just gonna say the thing is When we're with teammates and team players and and people that we're teaching, we do have that limited time to get that point driven. Versus when we're with our children, we want to make sure and and we I think there's this driving us, okay, you get what I'm saying, right? You're picking up what I'm putting down. And at that moment they may not be ready to pick up exactly what we're putting down. You know, so we do have to be careful about how we do that. Ken Elliott: Right. And in fact it may take two or three Right. It may take two or three incidences of the same type of thing for the lesson to really be internalized. And you can sometimes see it, right? The light came on, not the first time you did this dumb thing, not even the second time, but the third time the light sort of came on and now you can you can ease into that conversation about, you know, what you learned of this and and Settling the lesson in, I guess is is the phrase I would use. BigMike Coyle: Well and and also it might take two or three years or decades to for them to finally pick up what you were trying to teach And giving that opportunity to grow into it themselves is is hard. Now that so let's kind of caveat this a little bit and I want to get back into the coaching and the things you've learned as a coach, but now that you're attorney and you're Ken Elliott: Right. BigMike Coyle: dealing with people who just to be blunt and honest about it, You're dealing with them over and over again 'cause they keep making the same mistake over and over again. Do you get an opportunity or do you try to take a time to say, Hey, maybe it's time you get off this this carousel 'cause it's not serving you. Or do you just keep doing it 'cause you you're gonna keep getting Ken Elliott: So BigMike Coyle: a paycheck at the end of it? That part was a joke, by the way. Ken Elliott: No, you know, I I I know. I beyond a certain age, I I think I have kind of tried to adopt a little bit more of a mentorship approach towards some of my clients and and it's all very situation specific, right? They they need to be the type of client that you have a relationship with that you feel like it will be accepted. their situation needs to be such that they have the capacity to accept it. But I I I do find myself a lot more in the last probably ten to twelve years really sitting with some of my clients, you know, because you there's a lot of downtime. You you've worked in a court, you know how it is, right? The BigMike Coyle: Right, right. Ken Elliott: if the vast majority of being a courtroom lawyer is sitting around waiting for a judge to take the bench or whatever. So yeah, we do I do take some of those opportunities now, probably a lot more often than I did fifteen or twenty years ago, to say And I try and do it in a way that I feel it'll be accepted. And one of the aspects I think ultimately we should discuss about mentorship is tailoring mentorship to the person being mentored. But, you know, approaching them in such a way that, you know, this thing happened to me and this is the lesson I learned. Things like that. So that it doesn't come across as judgmental because they feel like everybody else in the system is judging them. And you have to be careful of that as they're represented. But sharing, hey, you know, I I made some mistakes in my life too. this is what ended up happening to me. This is the lesson I learned from it. When I see you again and again, this is kind of what strikes me, and maybe there's something there that would be of benefit. So absolutely. I I I've taken a lot of the lessons I learned from coaching. and and brought them forward once I felt I had the appropriate amount of life experience and gray hair and wisdom, if you will, to to share with somebody to to help them in a way that's not necessarily confined to legal advice. Absolutely. Absolutely. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, one of the things I notice is you make a great point about like tailoring it to the person specific. And one of the things I would always try to coach or tell people is one, this does not have to define who you are. This does not have to sidetrack your life and leave you down the a a path that you feel stuck in. And that's why I think sometimes the system is so hard. with people, as much as I believe in our system, is it gets people in this thought because some of the steps seem so hard and so unobtainable they they quit. Well, this is just who I am. This is just this is just my lot in life. This is where God wants me or whatever. And it's like, no, this isn't just Ken Elliott: Mm-hmm. BigMike Coyle: how it is. This isn't just who you are. This is just a small moment in your life. And that's one of things I think I've learned watching people, especially younger people, is when you're when you're young, something like two years, three years, that seems like forever. And now I look at two years or three years, and and to coin a phrase that I heard a lot when I was in law enforcement, I could do that standing on my head. Meaning it It's not that long of a time. It's time for you to take accountability for your actions. how do you say that to someone that I don't think they've ever been taught the importance of accountability? And as a coach back in football and stuff like that, if if a play gets blown because of missed block or someone being out of not running the route correctly, it's a it's incumbent to teach them like you've got to be accountable for what happened here. That doesn't mean you failed, like this and and you take it back to that other aspect, right? This place does this play doesn't define you. But be accountable for your failure in this play so that you can teach or so that you can learn and do better the next rotation. Ken Elliott: and what you just said really brings up two thoughts for me. One is the the short memory that you need to be an athlete, right? yeah, you're gonna make a mistake on a play, and I'm sure you taught the same I did. You know, you're gonna run the wrong route, you're gonna cover the wrong gap, you're gonna step the wrong way. All I ask is that you do it a hundred percent, whatever it is, and then work on it so that you don't make the same mistake again. But I don't want You're thinking about that mistake when you get to the next play. The next play, I need you thinking about the next play. So that that that's one aspect of what I think you're getting at that's very true, and which pulls forward into mentoring anybody. someone who's been arrested, someone who I'm representing that has a restraining order filed against them, made X, Y, Z choices. We can't go back and change those. What can we do different going forward so we don't wind up in the same place? But the other aspect that I've Felt was significant about mentoring in that specific regard of tailoring, is I'm sure you had the same experience I did. Some players respond to different types of motivation, right? And you, as the mentor, BigMike Coyle: One hundred percent. One hundred percent. Ken Elliott: as the coach, in that res in that scenario, in that environment, it is 100% your responsibility. Responsibility to figure out, okay, this this kid responds when I joke with him. This kid responds when I'm just, you know, a school teacher and I'm strict with him. This kid responds when I tell him he's gonna run lap, whatever it might be. And there's an element of authenticity that I'm that I suppose we should discuss at some point too, because you have to be authentic. But I think one of the primary responsibilities that I've felt in thinking ab about mentoring is tailoring your approach to the person being mentored to maximize your ability to be successful. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, I actually had that experience this last season where we were at practice and I had one player that wasn't very athletically minded, wasn't very skilled, and but he's also the kind of player you've got to take kind of a a soft approach with to get him to where you need him to be. I had another player on the team Ken Elliott: Right. BigMike Coyle: that that's not what he wants. You know, if if he's messing up, he will respond more to you getting in his face and calling him out. And you know, I don't coach boys, I Ken Elliott: Right. BigMike Coyle: coach men. So this player was not liking that the other guy wasn't picking it up as quickly and that I was being soft with him. And he got mad and started walking off the field and I was like, What's your problem? And he's like, You need to just be blunt, you just need to get it and I said, That's not gonna work for him. What's gonna happen if I do that with him? And then he had to step back and think about it and and realize that you know that's that doesn't work for everybody. What worked for my son doesn't work for my daughter. And what worked for my daughter would never work for my son. And you know, those are just my twins. You throw my third child in there and it's a whole other ball game. And part of being a coach, a father, a grandfather, or any aspect of our life, it's learning how to deal with those different personalities to get the message across that you're trying to get across. Ken Elliott: Right. And and it dovetails a little bit to to the work, not just in the sense that I that I represent or try to mentor to some degree some of my clients, but what might an argument that might work in front of judge number one and might get me someplace BigMike Coyle: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Ken Elliott: that I want to be might be completely wasted on judge number two and DA number three and city attorney number four, they all need to be dealt with differently and part of the part of the importance of having some experience and is and paying attention when you do is is changing your approach to be successful in any situation, clearly in mentoring, but also in life, right? BigMike Coyle: yeah. Well that that's such an important approach, you know, into life, no matter what your career field, what your what your aspects and and goals in life are, it's you you've got to be fluid, you know. I like I like the phrase and I know it comes from probably like the special operations world, but you've got to improvise, adapt and overcome. You know? You're you're gonna go before judge Judge Brown, and you're gonna say, you know, hey, these are the merits. This is my argument. And he'll say, yep. And then when you go in front of Judge Smith and you say the same thing, and he'll say, Nope. You know, and then knowing what the the counter, what you're gonna be countered with on the other side will do for you. and and just because you know that that attorney's personality, but you know, it it falls into all aspects of our life as to how we acknowledge and work with people as a role. And I'm sure that's something that you were taught growing up is is learning that and in you know, so let's talk about some of the mentors that helped prepare you in in your in your life. Ken Elliott: So I would say I had two what I would think of as as very significant or major mentors and then a a a handful of less important or less consistent mentors. The first one was when I was in college, I belonged to a community service organization, and that organization had a adult sponsor or advisor who was sent by the the service club parent to supervise us and help us grow and you know, keep us out of trouble and such. And he I did not recognize at the time what his role was or how important it was. It was only later as an adult when I look back on the relationship that we had and the relationship he had with other people within that organization that I recognized how important he was. I he he was nice. He would buy me dinner or buy a group of us dinner and talk to us about the club and about life and about our relationships with our parents or whatever. And at the again, at the time I didn't recognize what he was doing because I was what 17 when I started school, when I started college, 17 and a half. But later on, as I became an adult and began reflecting on the important influences in my life, I recognized how important he was. He was the difference between That club being successful and continuing and thriving, and that club being nothing. And and he was very important to me because he rec because he recognized something in me long before I recognized it in myself. an ability to be successful on a on a variety of planes, and and really pushed me in the way that worked best for me. And I and and I to this day he passed away I think about a year ago, unfortunately, but to this day I still think of him as one of the more important adult influences in my life. BigMike Coyle: What is it that he drew out of you that maybe you at the time you didn't know? Kind of like as we talked about the debriefs with our kids, we're trying to draw something out of Ken Elliott: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: What was something that he drew out of you that maybe years later or maybe even just now you're starting to accept and acknowledge that if it wasn't for him, you probably would not have known that about yourself. Ken Elliott: he saw in me an ability to succeed in a variety of environments that I did not believe I had. And and to go back to part of the earlier conversation, he was never heavy-handed about it. He was never, you can do this if you want, or you could do that if you want. But he would encourage me. Have you thought about trying this? Have you you know, if you did that, what would you think it would take to be successful? He sort of nudged me in in a number of different directions, academically, within the context of the club itself, extracurricular activities. He he was always supportive and encouraging of me trying things as though he understood that I could be successful at a time when I did not necessarily feel that way about myself. BigMike Coyle: Do you think it was that gift that he gave you seeing you that when your wife told you you were coaching that called back you able to call back on that and say, Yeah, I've got this, I can do this? Ken Elliott: I can see a relationship there. it I have to be honest, I would say the reason I was willing to then go ahead and go ahead and coach was I did want to protect my son too from stories you hear. and I figured even even if I wasn't a good football player, I sure I knew more than a five year old. So I I felt pretty confident in the in my ability in that at that point. It does relate to that, I believe, but I believe there have been a number of things in my life since then, up to and including this disappearance, to be honest with you, where his name was Jack, where Jack's seeing in me something I didn't necessarily see in myself has has given me the courage to go forward and try some things. Absolutely. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. having those people in our life, I've got a few of those. some are even really my my best friends, you know, that as I've looked at myself, I'm like, I could never do that. They're like, Why not? You know, just hearing that why not means so much. you know, my watching my mom and I know we've talked about this and if I haven't talked about it to the audience before, my mom Came from a very abusive family. She didn't even really know what a stable home life was until she met my dad, saw his home life, met my grandparents, and she would always say it was my grandparents, my father's parents that raised her and grew her up. That's how she would word it. Well, she went back to college in her fifties. went to law school and graduated the California bar at fifty five. And ha s watching that was something to say helps you take the excuse of, Well, I can never do that. Because when you see what she's accomplished in her life and and sadly she's no longer with us, when you see that you're like, yeah. If she can do that, you know, and and put the time in to do that and wait And I think that's one of the key aspects is sometimes we have to wait for the timing to be right. And our timing and what we want is not always the same time that other people want. But once we see that, the doors just fly open for us and and a whole world opens up to us. So I'm glad Jack Jack gave that to you and gave you that opportunity to see that. Ken Elliott: And it was particularly critical for me because, in in sort of a related vein, my parents were not particularly good at, hey, you know, you you could do this, you'll be fine, we believe in you, or or we're gonna support you doing that in this way, we're gonna drive you there, we're gonna pay for this, we're gonna whatever. and so I just sort of imposed limits on my own self. with no one to try and push me beyond them. So I think I think the gift that Jack gave me was and again it was very subtle. It was almost unspoken, but in his actions he showed me, hey, I believe in you. Whatever it is you think you might want to do, you can probably go do. BigMike Coyle: That's great. So I wanna know about a mentor that was there for you when you were down and out that you felt like you had you were you were at the bottom of the hole and didn't know if you were ever gonna make it out. Is Ken Elliott: Uh-huh. BigMike Coyle: there was there someone in your life there that helped pull you out and helped you see in yourself what what it is you can accomplish even though at that moment you weren't feeling, you know, Jack helped guide you. But now we're talking about someone that was there Ken Elliott: Uh-huh. BigMike Coyle: when when you needed someone the most. Ken Elliott: this is is going to sound a little odd, I think, when I say it out loud be but given the specific way you've asked that question, I'm gonna actually say yes, my oldest BigMike Coyle: See, that's the that's the lawyer in you. That's the lawyer in you. That's the lawyer in you asking w what is your definition of the word is? Ken Elliott: I'm gonna say yes. the o it would be my oldest son. And the story is it's about twenty thirteen, late twenty thirteen, early twenty fourteen. I was very near the end of of a very toxic unfortunate marriage. I had a tendency to Eat my feelings, if you will. I probably weighed about 250 at the time. I hadn't done anything physical in probably since late high school or early college. And my son, who was probably 22 at the time, 21, 22, had just gotten a job as a personal trainer. And I I still to this day don't don't know exactly why, but at one point he came up to me and he said, Hey, you know, Dad, you wanna you wanna come with me to work and work out with me? And I was like, no, you know, I don't I don't think so. Because you know how it is when you're depressed and and and upset like that. And he was a little per he was a little persistent, and finally he said, you know, hey Dad, an obstacle course race. And and I'd really like to do one, and I'd really like you to do it with me. And so I'm asking him a little bit about it, and he says, you know, it's three miles and then you have to like do these other other obstacles where you climb up a rope or jump over. A hay bale or pick up this heavy thing and carry it there and carry it back and then you keep running. And I laughed. I said, I haven't run three milestones, maybe ever, but certainly since high school. I I I don't see I don't see it happening. And he stayed on me, and finally he talked me into running this first race with him. It was tragic. he he finished the race, he had to turn around, come find me on the course. He literally put his hand stand in the middle of my back and pushed me across the finish line. And I w it was it was embarrassing, to be honest with you, it was embarrassing. And the next day we woke up 'cause even even though my wife and I were s at the time we're separated, we were living in the same house until all the kids left. we got up the next morning and my son says there's this race, they're called Spartan races, they're sort of the next level up of these obstacle course races. I'd like you to come run one with me in April. But this one's a little longer, it's like six to nine miles. And I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. And I said, give me an hour. And I went and sat in jacuzzi for an hour. And when I came out, to this day I can't tell you why I said yes, but I said yes. And it started just a complete turnaround in my physical, which gave birth to a completely different outlook, mentally, emotionally, psychologically. to where you know we would work out together most days, we would run together, we would eat together, we would talk about nutrition, we would do all these. things and it pulled me out of the deepest depression of my life, and just put me on a completely different path. I've done close to eighty races now over time. A lot of them I got to do with him and with my daughter, who was also very athletic. and it gave me a lot of chance to spend a lot of time with them, like we had talked about with football. And it that was about my darkest moment and and he pulled me out of it and to this day I tell him I owe him and he says, No, you did the work. it was you and I said, No, I wouldn't I wouldn't have even started without you my oldest son. BigMike Coyle: That is an amazing story. Those are the stories I love to hear because it shows the love and and the desire of a son to want to spend time with his dad. You know, how much there's so much I I long that I got to spend time with my my dad's still with us, but you know, now I'm grown, I have my old family. It it's kind of the the cat in the cradle story, you know, from the the Cat Stevens songs. But, you know Taking that time, spending it together, but also Maybe him not knowing how depressed you were, maybe he did know how depressed you were, but he knew this was an opportunity for you to change. He your s your s your older son like Jack saw that you needed something at that moment in your life to change your outlook on on what you were capable of. Ken Elliott: so in in twenty fourteen, my son and I together, ran all three there at the time Spartan only had three different races, three different lengths. There was the sprint, which was the short one, the super, and then what they called a beast. And the beast was a half marathon with obstacles. And we BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Ken Elliott: we drove up to Monterey and did the beast together. And I tell you at the end of it, just the feeling of accomplishment and relief and joy and and and the and the fact that I was able to share it with my son, I I broke down and cried. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Ken Elliott: It's just it it it it's it's indescribable. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, and Ken Elliott: It's hard to put into words. BigMike Coyle: no, and you know, it's funny, one of the things I'm taking from that, how much of it was with your son? It was your son that started you on this path. Here, your whole life, you had been coaching him in sports and in football, coaching him in life as his father, trying to help him stay on the right track and on the right path. But when you needed someone there for you, it was your son who came up from behind, stepped up. to take the leadership role and to lead you down this journey and stuck by your side through it. So I mean, I'm gonna give a shout out and say that's a testament to you as a father that one, he was able, he felt comfortable to approach you and say, hey dad, this is what this means to me. I want to do this with you. And knowing that it was gonna take some talking to and some work, but you were going to be receptive to it. Ken Elliott: so yeah, that that would be my the person who helped me when I was at my lowest. And and I and I also went through some therapy at the time, I'm not gonna lie, and and and in her own way, she was very much a mentor and a friend who who helped me see my way through that very dark time. But the other thing I would say is those two experiences, plus coaching in particular, really got me thinking more acutely or being more front of mind with the idea of now mentoring others. I I feel an obligation. you know, my my son's thirty-five, he doesn't really need a lot of mentoring anymore. But But it awakened in me or made more front of mind to me a need for me to be more of a mentor to people. I I felt I had incurred a debt, if you will. And and I try every opportunity I get now, even in a very, very small situation. You know, I'll have I speak sometimes at college classes about criminal law and then sometimes one of the kids will be like, Hey, can I come with you to court? one once or twice. And I even try and take those very small opportunities to to mentor a little bit. You think you want to go to law school, these are some things you should think about. You think you want to be a lawyer, well these are the things you should think about. Hey when I was in court today with you, did you see this? There's a lesson in there, that type of thing. is a lot more important to me and I feel an obligation to it so that I'm a lot more attentive to it now than I think I was before that. BigMike Coyle: Well, that's one of the core principles of the mentor sessions is it's one of the ways we honor our mentors is by taking those lessons that we have and also those lessons they taught us, but the lessons we've incurred that we built upon. And we Ken Elliott: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: have that duty to share it back and to pay it forward in some some way to help people see their own potential and to help people grow in their own life. coaching is a great gift in that aspect because it allows us that opportunity to show people what they're capable of and to see in people what they're capable of doing. but it also helps us pay back those mentors who led us on our path and and set us in our life and helped us along the way. Ken Elliott: And you've accumulated all these lessons and and many of them came from mentors. I you know, year you're saying yours did. I'm telling you for a fact mine did. Some of them just came from your experience in life, separate and apart from a mentor. But now you have all of this information If you can keep somebody else from having to stumble to get to the same place you are, it feels like what why wouldn't you? What what on earth would stop you? And shouldn't you be motivated sort of individually of your own will? Shouldn't you be motivated to try and help the person behind you so that they can ultimately, with any luck, get past you, right? I mean What was the point of accumulating all these lessons if you don't help somebody with them? I I found this quote while I was doing this other project and I just I I I thought so much of it It says the mission is simple. Die empty. Use every gift, share every lesson, love every person you're supposed to love. Don't take your genius to the grave. And I thought, if that doesn't define mentorship, give you motivation to be a mentor, I don't know what will. BigMike Coyle: Well, that's that's a powerful quote. and the thing that I really took out of that is don't take your genius to the grave. one of my my personal feelings and opinions is we're so worried, we get so worried in this life too about what's the next life and what comes after this life. And I was having a conversation with my wife about this topic, and the thing that came to my mind that stuck with me is I don't know what comes for my soul after this life, you know. But what I do know Ken Elliott: Mm-hmm. BigMike Coyle: is I can live eternally through the people I've touched, through the lessons I've I share, through teaching people and and helping people in some way, you know, having that ripple effect. And I think that ripple effect is one of the most powerful things we can do. If we can drop a a little stone in one pond and letting that just grow out, you know, look at all everything that your your son, who's a physical trainer, has done. Look at how he came back and and touched the shore, if you will, of you, you know, to help get you back where you needed to be and and and your therapist at the time too. And I'll I'll never take anything away from therapy. I believe strongly in therapy. One of the things that I think a lot of people miss is so important is just having a place where you can express what's going on safely and get feedback on it. Because I believe feedback is very important of it. But I think the best way we can quote unquote live e eternally is by making sure we're sharing Ken Elliott: Mm-hmm. BigMike Coyle: all the good that we have, the love, the the life lessons, our quote unquote genius. And And letting those messages Ken Elliott: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: go forth and and touch people. Ken Elliott: and and I'm I'm gonna treat this somewhat like a first date and not not get into religion or politics, but BigMike Coyle: Right. Ken Elliott: I I I am fairly convinced that I do know what's going to happen to me after I'm gone and that my only My only shot at immortality, since I will not be in, you know, the NFL Hall of Fame or or something like that, BigMike Coyle: Right, right. Ken Elliott: is is the is is the ripple that you have on the the people that that knew you, that got something from you that that will remember you. I'm like you in that now I have three grandsons, right? And my it struck me very soon after my first grandson was born, he's only gonna need to live to be about 78 in order to live into the next century. Okay? I'm not expecting to be here anywhere near that time. But I do take a little bit of solace in the idea that if I have a positive influence on him during his life and during whatever's left of mine on his life, that the memory of me to some degree will make it to the next century. But I I and I'm content with that as sort of a legacy or whatever shot at immortality I will have. BigMike Coyle: That is the key thing right there. You know, giving those lessons away. Not asking for money, but giving them away to help people grow and become and to help share those positive messages. as we wrap up here and you said in a roundabout way something I want to point out, and that is watching their success supersede yours? And I think it's so amazing when we get that chance to watch the student becomes the master because they've taken our lessons Ken Elliott: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: and the lessons of all those around them. Because we we have to accept and realize we are just one small cog in the in this person's life. And watching and knowing that. Ken Elliott: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: some aspect of what you have given someone is going to be given away and shared with others. And and I I want to wrap up on that point that the importance of not being jealous, not holding back. one of my one of my thoughts is, you know, wisdom, we have an opportunity with our wisdom, our genius, our knowledge. We can either be like a squirrel and and store it away and keep it to ourselves. Or we can be what I like to call the the backyard barbecue where we invite everybody over. Everybody brings a little something and we all just share it away and give it away freely. Ken Elliott: And and that it if if that's not the purpose of us being here, then I'm really struggling to figure out what it might be. I I gotta be honest with you. That it feels like to me, that's why we're here. We need to help and lift up the people behind us so that they can be ideally more successful, experience more things, and then turn around and help even more people than we do. BigMike Coyle: Right. Right. Ken, I want to thank you for your time for joining us. this has been a fantastic Ken Elliott: thank you. BigMike Coyle: conversation. You and I have gotten to know each other a little bit over the last few weeks and sharing Ken Elliott: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: text messages and stuff. And I think you're just a great person and I'm excited to come down to San Diego, have some tacos with you and and just enjoy that beautiful city. And then we I know we both have a goal to open up A a law practice. I I'll be your private investigator and what was it, Bora Bora or Tahiti or something. So yeah. Ken, thanks for all your time. Ken Elliott: Yeah. Well I'm doing all this so I can get away from practicing law. I'm not gonna lie to you, but but if you wanna come BigMike Coyle: Yeah, well whatever whatever it takes to get us there, buddy. Ken Elliott: down and do some work, I got some s I got some stuff for you, don't worry about it. BigMike Coyle: I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do. Thanks everybody for tuning in to the mentor sessions. I'm your host, Big Mike. Please think about those mentors that have impacted your life. Please leave a comment down in the the dis down below and share your messages. Share your stories about the people that have impacted your life. I'd love to hear remember to like, comment, subscribe. All Ken Elliott: Take care, Mike. Good to see you, man. BigMike Coyle: right. Thanks a lot.