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Cheerleader Murder Case Takes Dark Turn After Adoptive Mom’s Arrest · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Imagine for just a moment that you make this desperate
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: phone call to a government agency to save a child's life.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: You know this child. You know the environment she's living
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: in is basically a powder keg.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a total disaster waiting to happen. Exactly.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: So you make the call. You report the danger. And
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the response you get from the very agency designed to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: protect her is essentially, we can't do anything until the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: 14-year-old victim speaks up first.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Which is just incredible.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, think about the psychological absurdity of that. It's
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the equivalent of asking a hostage to negotiate their own
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: release without a phone while actively trapped under the exact
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: same roof as their captor. I mean, it defies basic
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: human survival instincts.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: It completely does.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: And yet, this isn't some hypothetical thought experiment. This is
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: allegedly the exact bureaucratic wall that people hit when they
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: tried to save a 14-year-old girl from Vandalia, Illinois, a
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: girl whose story we are untangling today.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: It just... Completely upends our basic assumptions about the safety
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: nets we rely on, doesn't it? Totally. Like, when we
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: think of danger to children, society trains us from a
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: very young age to look outward. We drill this concept
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: of stranger danger into kids.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Right, like watch out for the creepy van.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Exactly. We tell them to watch out for the unfamiliar
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: car or the person they don't know in the park.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: But the most complex, the most devastating, and frankly... the
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: most statistically common cases of violence against children are almost
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: always internal.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: They happen right inside the house.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: They happen behind closed doors. They happen under the legal,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: you know, state-sanctioned cover of guardianship.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: What we see in this specific case is a horrifying
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: demonstration of how administrative blind spots, legal loopholes, and just
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: the exhausting complexities of the justice system can fatally betray
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: the most vulnerable kids among us.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: So our mission in this deep dive is to guide
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: you through this massive, profoundly multilayered tragedy involving that 14-year-old girl,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Kylie Toberman. Yeah. We are going to examine the timeline
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: of her murder, which is full of glaring inconsistencies.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: To put it mildly.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Right. And we will dissect the truly bizarre, just chilling
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: actions of her adoptive family in the immediate aftermath of
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: her disappearance.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Which is a whole other level of wild.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: It really is. And crucially, we are going to investigate
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: the alleged systemic breakdowns of the Department of Children and
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Family Services, or DCFS as we'll call them, that allowed
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a chorus of repeated, glaring red flags to go completely ignored.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: And to map all of this out, we are pulling
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: from incredibly detailed investigative reporting by the Law and Crime Network.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: They did amazing work on this.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: They really did. Their team gathered a massive trove of
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: source material that provides the foundation for our analysis today.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: We're looking at official court documents, sworn statements from law enforcement,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: and some incredibly explosive social media videos.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Those videos are intense.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They were posted by family members who were frantically
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: demanding answers before the unthinkable even happened.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: We also have crucial expert analysis woven into this reporting
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: from Wills Villar. He's a retired Illinois detective commander.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, nice. Yeah.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: His insights are vital because he understands exactly how these
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: investigations actually work on the ground.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Right. Not the TV version.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Not how they look on a procedural drama, but
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: the gritty, you know, bureaucratic reality of how police and
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: social services operate in tandem, or in this case, how
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: they fail to.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: So as we go through this, we are going to
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: look at everything with an empathetic but strictly investigative lens.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: We have to, because there are so many checkpoints in
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: the story where someone, I mean, really anyone could have intervened.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's heartbreaking.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: But before we get lost in the legal mechanics and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: all the bureaucratic failures, we really need to ground ourselves
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: in the reality of what was lost. Let's talk about
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Kylie Toberman. Right.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Let's focus on her for a second.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: She was actually born as Kylie Marie Kutz on January 21st, 2011.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: She was just weeks away from her 15th birthday when
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: she was murdered on November 14th, 2025.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: It is so important to remember the vibrant life she
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: led outside the shadow of this tragedy.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Her friends and biological family described her as a fiercely
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: devoted sister and just an incredibly loyal friend. She had
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: this deeply caring heart, a natural ability to make everyone
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: around her feel included and seen.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: That's so rare for a teenager.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: It is. But what really stands out is that she
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: was an incredible young wrestler.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Wrestling.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: She earned multiple awards for her determination, her discipline, and
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: her sheer talent on the mat.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: That is no joke.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: No, not at all. When you think about the qualities
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: required for wrestling, the intense physical conditioning, the mental fortitude,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: the grit to face an opponent one-on-one, you realize what
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: a strong, capable, and vibrant young woman she was becoming.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. Which is what makes the reality of what
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: happened to her so incredibly difficult to process. You have
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: this tough, disciplined athlete, but at 14, I mean, a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: kid is still ultimately helpless against the adults who control
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: their environment.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: They really are. They don't have the agency to just leave.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Right. And the timeline of her death is incredibly grim.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: She was officially reported missing to the police at 6.30 a.m.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: On a Friday.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: And just hours later, the investigation led straight to her
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: adoptive mother's property. Kylie's body was found hidden inside a
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: plastic tote bin, tucked away inside an RV parked on
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the property.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Just horrific.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: And the cause of death? She was strangled to death
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: with jumper cables. Okay, let's unpack this for a second.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Because the escalation here is just staggering. Going from a
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: supposedly typical Thursday night at home to being strangled with
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: jumper cables and stuffed in a tote in a recreational vehicle?
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: It feels like we are missing the entire middle of
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: a movie.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: It does. It feels like a massive leap.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: How does an investigation even begin to bridge that kind
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: of violent gap?
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: What's fascinating here is how experienced homicide detectives approach a
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: domestic crime scene. And it is actually completely counterintuitive to
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: how the public thinks.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Really? How so?
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: As terrifying as it sounds, when a body is discovered
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: on a residential property, investigators do not immediately start searching
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the perimeter for a boogeyman who jumped the fence.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: They don't assume a break-in.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: No, they don't assume a random prowler broke in. They
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: look strictly at proximity and access.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Think about the logistics of this specific crime. A victim
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: strangled with jumper cables implies a chaotic crime of opportunity
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: or rage.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Right, it's not a sniper rifle.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It's utilizing a tool of convenience rather than a
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: premeditated weapon like a firearm. But hiding a body inside
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: a plastic tote and then moving that heavy tote into
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: an RV parked on the property? That requires time.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a process.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: It requires a comfort level with the environment. It requires
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: unimpeded access to that specific location without the fear of
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: being caught by the homeowners. Oh, I see. It strongly
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: suggests the perpetrator lived right there. So the investigation immediately
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: pivots inward, focusing entirely on the people who sleep just
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: feet away from where the body was found.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: So the very concept of home is completely inverted here.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: You think about home as the ultimate home. universal symbol
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: of safety for a child.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: But when the threat is already inside, the home isn't
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a sanctuary. It becomes the ultimate trap because the perimeter
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: walls that are designed to keep bad people out are
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: now locking the victim inside with them.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: It's a terrifying realization.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: And because the crime scene was contained entirely on the
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: family's property, we have to naturally transition to understanding exactly
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: who this family is. Right. We need to figure out
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: how Kylie came to live with them in the first place.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And let me warn you, the custody web here is
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: incredibly tangled.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: It is extremely convoluted. But mapping out these relationships is
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: critical because it explains the legal framework that allowed the
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: state to get involved in the first place and then
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: later step away.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: OK, break it down for us.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Let's start with Kylie's biological mother, Megan Zeller. According to
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: the sources, Megan had not seen her daughter in seven years.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Seven years. Wow. Yeah.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: There was a vaguely defined domestic situation years ago that
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: prompted DCFS to intervene. DCFS removed Kylie and her two half-sisters,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Cora and Camila, from their biological mother's care. Okay. Now,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: when the state removes children, their first priority is almost
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: always familial placement.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Finding a relative. Right.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Finding a family member to take them in. rather than
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: throwing them into the stranger foster care system. So they
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: placed all three girls in the custody of a woman
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: named Donna Toberman. Right.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: And here is where you really need a flow chart
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: to keep track. Donna Toberman was the biological grandmother to
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Kylie's two half-sisters, Cora and Camilla.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: But Donna had absolutely zero biological relation to Kylie. None.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: She was just the grandmother of Kylie's half-siblings. Yeah.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Just a familial proximity, basically.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Despite that lack of a blood tie, the state allowed
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Donna to become Kylie's legal guardian, and she officially adopted
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Kylie in 2018.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Which is a huge legal step.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That finalized adoption gave Kylie the legal last name
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: of Toberman. And living within that exact same family orbit
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: is a man named Arnold B. Rivera, who goes by
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: the nickname BJ.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Right. And Arnold is Donna's biological son. Okay.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Tracking.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: So legally speaking, the moment Donna's adoption of Kylie was
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: finalized by a judge, Arnold Rivera officially became Kylie's adoptive brother.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Wait, really? Because I saw articles calling him an uncle.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, early media reports mistakenly labeled him as a step-uncle,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: which confused me. the public a lot. But legally, on paper,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: he is her adoptive brother. Though, again, we must stress
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: they share absolutely zero biological relation.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: None at all.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: And Arnold Rivera is the man now facing a horrifying
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: slate of charges. First-degree murder, criminal sexual assault, and concealing
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: a homicidal death.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: The charges are absolutely staggering. I mean, first-degree murder is
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: one thing, but adding criminal sexual assault completely changes the
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: psychological profile of the crime.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Completely.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: But what immediately jumps out from the reporting is this massive,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: glaring dispute over where Arnold actually lived at the time
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of the murder.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: This is a huge point of contention.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Initial reports, and the family themselves, claimed Arnold was living
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: in the house with Kylie to help his mother, Donna,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: recover from a recent surgery. Right. But DCFS vehemently denies this.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: They put out a very firm statement insisting he did
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: not live in that home. I mean, if DCFS says
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: he didn't live there, but the family says he absolutely did,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: who is right?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the million-dollar question.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: It feels like relying on a driver's license address to
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: prove where someone actually sleeps every night is dangerously naive.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: You are hitting on a major administrative blind spot that
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: plagues social services nationwide.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Really? This is common?
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. In law enforcement and child welfare, an
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: official address typed on a piece of plastic often completely
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: fails to reflect the fluid, sometimes chaotic reality of domestic
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: living situations.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Right. People move around.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: People sleep on couches. They move back home to help
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: with a medical issue, like you said, a surgery. They
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: drift back and forth between residences.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: If Arnold wasn't officially listed as a permanent resident at
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that address on paper, like if his mail went somewhere
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: else or his ID had a different zip code, he
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: might not have triggered any of the mandatory background checks
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: related to the adults living in a home with a minor.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Wait, really? So it's all automated?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: The state system basically operates on rigid data inputs. It asks,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: who lives here legally?
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: It does not have the capacity to ask, who is
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: currently sleeping in the spare bedroom for the last month?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Wait, I need to stop you there. You're telling me
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: that a child welfare agency, an entity whose sole purpose
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: is to monitor the safety of a vulnerable minor... just
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: takes a bureaucratic shrug if an adult moves in under
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: the radar?
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Essentially, yes. If the paperwork doesn't show it, the system
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: doesn't see it.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: That is wild. Because if they had vetted him, if
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: they had pulled up his record, what would they have found?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Because if you look at Arnold's criminal record, it is
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: a glaring parade of red flags that should have stopped
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the clocks.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: It's terrifying when you look back at it.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Let's look at the ghost of his past. In the
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: year 2000, Arnold Rivera was charged with burglary and criminal
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: sexual abuse of a child between the ages of 9
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and 16. Right. But he struck a plea deal. He
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to felony aggravated battery, and the child sex
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: abuse charge was completely dropped by prosecutors. He got probation.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: And then in 2008, he got probation again for possessing
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: a stolen car.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: That plea deal from the year 2000 is the critical
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: foundational pivot point of this entire tragedy. You really have
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: to understand the mechanics of the justice system to see
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: why this happened.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Here's where it gets really interesting. It's like a system
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: of legal money laundering.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I like that analogy.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: You take a charge of predatory behavior, you wash it
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: through the court's plea bargaining system, and it comes out
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: the other side as a completely unrelated, non-restrictive paperwork offense.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: The danger is still totally there. Yeah. But the operating
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: system has been tricked into ignoring it. It's like deleting
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: a virus warning on your computer but keeping the infected file.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Legal money laundering is a brutally accurate way to describe
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: the fallout of certain plea deals.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: It's maddening.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: If we connect this to the bigger picture, you have
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: to look at the sheer volume of cases moving through
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: a county courthouse. Prosecutors are heavily incentivized to clear dockets.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Because they have too many cases.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Exactly. If they have a child sexual abuse charge, but
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the victim is traumatized and reluctant to testify or the
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: physical evidence is complex and maybe aging, they face a
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: real risk at trial.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: They might lose. Right.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: So they offer a mathematically certain conviction on a lesser charge,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: like aggravated battery, rather than risk a jury acquitting the
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: defendant entirely.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Get some kind of win on the board.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Exactly. But what happens is a profound distortion of reality.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: The system records aggravated battery, which implies a bar fight,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: you know, a generic physical altercation or a scuffle.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a punch to the face or something. Right.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: It completely strips away the predatory sexual nature of the
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: original charge.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: So 20 years later, when an agency runs a background check,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the context is just completely gone.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Because Arnold was never formally convicted of the sex crime.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: He was never required to register as a sex offender.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: So think about the mechanics of a standard background check.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: When DCFS or a school district or a corporate employer
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: runs a routine check, their algorithms are looking for convictions,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: not dismissed charges.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Right. You're innocent until proven guilty on the dismissed stuff.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Right. Because he took a plea for aggravated battery, his
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: history of alleged predatory behavior toward children was practically invisible
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: to the systems designed to look for it. The state
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: database saw a guy with an old battery charge in
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: a stolen car. Not a documented risk to minors.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: If you are listening to this, I really want you
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: to reflect on our societal reliance on these supposedly clean
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: background checks.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: We put so much faith in them.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: We use them for everything. We use them to vet
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the people coaching our kids' youth sports, the volunteers at schools,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the people moving into our neighborhoods. We inherently assume a
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: clean background check equals a safe person.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: We don't realize how easily the legal system's compromises, these
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: plea deals meant to clear court backlogs, can create a
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: completely false sense of security. In Kylie's case, it meant
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: a potential predator was flying entirely under the radar.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Of the state. That false sense of security is terrifying.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And here is the true tragedy. While the administrative systems
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: and the state databases were blind to him, the actual
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: human beings paying attention in real life We're not.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: They saw it happening.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: The people interacting with this family saw the danger clearly.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: So while the paper trail was scrubbed clean, the reality
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: inside that house was a nightmare, leading to frantic attempts
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: by the people who loved Kylie to warn authorities before
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: it was too late.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just a single tip either. It was a
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: deafening chorus of ignored alarms.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: So many red flags.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Let's look at who was actively trying to sound the alarm.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Kylie's biological mom, Megan Zeller. claims she reported unsafe conditions
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in that home to DCFS way back in January.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Ten months prior.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: A full ten months before the murder. Another grandmother corroborated
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: this to local news, stating emphatically that several people called
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the agency multiple times since January and absolutely nothing was done.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: And we must note that it wasn't just the biological
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: family making these calls.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: We have to talk about Paige Stone. She's Arnold's ex-partner and, crucially,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Her daughter was Kylie's best friend. Oh, wow.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Close connection.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Very close. Paige posted a highly emotional, explosive video stating
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: she also reported the living conditions and her deep concerns
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: about Kylie to DCFS multiple times since January. Yeah. According
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: to Paige, the response she allegedly got from DCFS was chilling.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: She claims they told her, there is nothing we can
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: do until Kylie speaks up.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: I have to pause on that because the psychology of
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: that response is infuriating.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: It's completely baffling.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Page also said people were commenting back in January that
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: it would take Kylie getting pregnant or ending up dead
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: for the system to actually believe them. And now she
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: is dead.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Expecting a 14-year-old girl to report her abusers while she
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: is actively living under their roof. I mean, we talked
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: about this at the start. It is literally hostage psychology.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: How can an agency armed with state authority place the
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: ultimate burden of rescue on the shoulders of a terrified child?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: The retired detective commander in our sources, Will Spaler, firmly
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: agreed with your outrage there.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I'm not the only one.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: No, he was very clear. He explained the investigative reality.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Seasoned detectives and child welfare experts know as a fundamental
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: rule that you cannot rely on a minor to self-report abuse.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: They just won't do it.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: No, this is especially true. If the child is being
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: actively groomed, psychologically manipulated, or is simply terrified of the
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: adults who control every aspect of their shelter, their food,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: and their safety. Right.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: They hold all the cards.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: An investigator's job is to independently observe, corroborate, and investigate
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: the environment. You do not wait for the victim to
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: hand you the case.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: But they did wait. So why didn't they intervene?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a legal shield there.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: DCFS issued a public statement after the murder, extending their sympathy,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: but they made a very specific, carefully worded legal clarification.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: They stated that after Kylie was adopted by Donna in 2018,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: she was no longer a youth in care of DCFS.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And that single sentence exposes a massive systemic failure driven
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: by bureaucracy and triage algorithms.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Break that down for us.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: When we analyze this from an administrative standpoint, you have
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: to look at how DCFS operates. Caseworkers are drowning in
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: phenomenally high caseloads.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Sure. They're understaffed.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: They are forced to utilize risk assessment tools to prioritize kids.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: A child currently in the temporary foster system, bouncing between homes,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: is considered an acute crisis.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: High priority.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: But once a child is legally adopted by a guardian,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: they are moved into a completely different bureaucratic category. The
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: state deems them safe because they now have permanent legal parents.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: So the adoption acts as a shield against scrutiny.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Exactly. When a hotline tip comes in about an adopted child,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: The algorithm or the intake worker inherently scores that risk
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: lower than a tip about a child in foster care. Oh,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I see. The legal presumption of parental fitness kicks in.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Things slip through the cracks, not necessarily out of malice,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: but because the legal status of adopted effectively lowers the
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: priority of the investigation. The agency defers to the privacy
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: and authority of the adoptive family.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: It is a bureaucratic shield that clearly cost this young
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: girl her life.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: It really did.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: But the failure to act on these blatant warnings wasn't
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: just limited to child protective services. We also have to
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: examine another alleged failure, this time by local law enforcement,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: regarding a completely separate, violently explicit threat made by the
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: exact same suspect.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Right. This involves a video that surfaced on social media
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: from a man identifying himself as Arnold Rivera's former stepbrother.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Another video. Yeah.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: In the video, he tells a highly detailed story about
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: a family Thanksgiving gathering. He claims that after everyone else
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: went to bed, Arnold confessed to him that he had
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: formulated a concrete plan to kill the mother of his children.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: And that target would be Paige Stone, the very same
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: woman we just discussed who was desperately trying to warn
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: DCFS about Kylie.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: The details of this alleged confession are so granular, they
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: give you chills. Arnold allegedly told the stepbrother that he
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: stole a van from a small car lot in Decatur
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: to use for the crime. Yeah. He hid the stolen
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: van in a garage? Yes. He then drove to Paige's
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: house with the explicit premeditated plan to murder her. And
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the only reason he aborted the mission was because he
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: saw that she had unexpected company over.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Right. He saw cars in the driveway.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: He just got unlucky with the timing, so he backed off.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: The stepbrother claims he was so horrified by this confession
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: that he reported this attempted murder plot to the police immediately.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: But no action was taken.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Nothing.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: No arrest. No investigation into the stolen van. Nothing. Nothing.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: This raises an important question about the threshold of actionable
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: evidence for local police. Let's look at the legal mechanics
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: of a tip like that.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how does that work?
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: If someone calls the police and says, my stepbrother told
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: me he planned to kill someone, that is technically hearsay.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: The police are hearing about a confession secondhand.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: A prosecutor would struggle to bring a formal attempted murder
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: charge based solely on a stepbrother's uncorroborated testimony without physical evidence.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: But wait, even if it's hearsay for a trial, isn't
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: it actionable intelligence for an investigation? I mean, if someone
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: literally hands you a confession to an attempted murder, complete
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: with stolen vehicles, hidden garages, and aborted missions, how does
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: a police department just file that away in a drawer?
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: They could have looked for the van.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: You are absolutely right. And that is where the systemic
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: breakdown occurs. Yeah. Hearsay might not be enough for a conviction,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: but it is more than enough for reasonable suspicion to
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: launch an investigation. Police can canvas small car lots in
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Decatur to see if a van was reported stolen.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Call around, see if anything is missing.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They can interview the suspect. They can pull traffic
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: camera footage near Paige Stone's house. At the very least,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: they can put him on their radar.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Put a spotlight on him.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: If this tip was indeed ignored without any follow-up, it
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: represents a catastrophic failure to neutralize a known active threat.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: If they had pulled on that thread, perhaps Arnold is
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: behind bars for auto theft. And he is nowhere near
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Kylie Toberman in November of 2025.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: It is the compounding nature of these failures that is
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: so infuriating.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: It's layer upon layer.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: The justice system failed to brand him a predator in 2000.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: DCFS failed to act on the warnings in January. And
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the police allegedly failed to act on a direct threat
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: of lethal violence. Yeah. Which brings us, chronologically, to the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: mourning of the murder itself and the behavior of the
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: people inside that house. during those crucial hours is incredibly bizarre.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: We really need to look closely at the timeline here
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: because there are some very strange glitches that investigators would
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: immediately flag.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, what kind of glitches?
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Pagestone alleges that Kylie actually went missing on Wednesday, November 13th,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: not Thursday the 14th. Interestingly, the official court documents charging
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Arnold with murder also cite November 13th as the date
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: of the offense.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: But the official missing persons report wasn't filed with the
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: police until Friday morning at 6.30 a.m.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: The delay in reporting a child missing is always a
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: massive flashing red light. According to the sources, at 5 a.m.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: on Friday morning, Arnold allegedly texted his mother Donna to
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: tell her that Kylie didn't come home the night before.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Donna allegedly told him to report her missing, but ultimately
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Donna drove down to Vandalia to report it herself, presumably
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: because she was the legal guardian.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: But here is the bizarre detail that you just cannot
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: shake when you hear it. After officially reporting their 14-year-old
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: daughter and sister missing to the police, Arnold and Donna
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: allegedly went shopping.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: They went to Walmart. They ran routine errands. Witnesses and
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: family members say they showed absolutely no signs of distress.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: They acted completely normal.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: From a psychological investigative perspective, that kind of behavior post-incident
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: is critical circumstantial evidence.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: How so?
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: It speaks entirely to state of mind. Human nature dictates
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: that if your child is missing, your baseline reaction is panic.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Right. You're freaking out.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: You are searching the streets. You are calling every friend
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: in her phone book. You are glued to your own phone,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: waiting for the police to call back. Casual errands at
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: a big box store suggest a psychological projection of normalcy.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: They're pretending everything is fine.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: It implies you already know you don't need to be
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: looking for her because you know exactly where she is.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: So what does this all mean? Going grocery shopping while
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: your child is supposedly missing in the world is either
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: the ultimate form of psychological denial or it is the
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: ultimate sign of guilt.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Most investigators would lean heavily toward the latter.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And while the police are undoubtedly looking at that bizarre behavior,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: another piece of explosive evidence drops online. Paige Stone released
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: a secret recording of a phone call she had with
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Arnold shortly after Kylie was killed.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: The contents of that call are damning. In the recording,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: you can hear him allegedly say, I just lost it.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Don't do nothing stupid. My kids need you. They're better
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: off collecting my social security.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: That's chilling.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: He goes on to ask her to tell his kids
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: he loves them, and he acknowledges that they will never
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: forgive him.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: It sounds exactly like a man who knows he is
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: going away to prison for the rest of his life.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a full confession. But legally, can they
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: even use it?
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: It is highly complicated, and our expert, the retired detective,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: broke down the legal utility of this specific recording. Okay.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Illinois is what is known as a two-party consent state
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: under their eavesdropping laws.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Right. Both sides have to know.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: That means you cannot legally record a private phone conversation unless...
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: both people on the call explicitly agree to it, or
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: you have a specific judicially authorized court order like a wiretap.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: So because Page recorded him secretly, without a warrant, and
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: without his permission, the tape is basically useless in a
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: court of law?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Yes. The tape itself is likely what the legal system
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: calls the fruit of the poisonous tree.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Ah, I've heard that phrase.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Because the recording was obtained in direct violation of state
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: eavesdropping laws, a judge will almost certainly suppress it. It
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: will be ruled inadmissible.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: So the jury won't hear it.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Right. A jury will likely never hear that actual audio
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: tape played in the courtroom. However, there is a crucial
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: legal workaround here that prosecutors use. The physical recording is inadmissible,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: but Paige Stone herself is not.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Explain how that works.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: She was a legal party to the conversation. She experienced
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: it firsthand. So she can take the witness stand, swear
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: an oath, and testify to the contents of that conversation
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: from her own memory. Oh, I see. She can look
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: at the jury and say, Arnold called me on this
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: date and he told me he lost it and that
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: his kids were better off collecting his social security. She
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: acts as a hearsay exception because it is a statement
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: against the defendant's own interest. Wow. So she preserves the
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: confession for the jury, even if the prosecution can't play
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: the actual tape to prove it.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: That is such a fascinating legal needle to thread.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: The rules of evidence are incredibly strict, but there is
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: almost always a pathway if you know the mechanics.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: And the police aren't just looking at Arnold's legal exposure.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: The bizarre behavior of Donna Toberman, the Walmart trip, the
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: delayed reporting, the fact that she was the legal guardian
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: overseeing this environment, naturally leads into her own collision with
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: law enforcement just days after Kylie's body was discovered.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: On November 20th, law enforcement executed a search warrant on
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Donna's property. This is notable because it happened just one
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: day after Kylie's biological mother took to social media to
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: publicly demand Donna's arrest.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And this was the same property where Kylie was murdered
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: and hidden in the RV.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: And during the search of the home, police found multiple firearms.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: They ran Donna's name through the state database and verified
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: that she did not possess a valid firearm owner's identification card.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: The FOID card.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Right. For those outside the state, Illinois requires a FOID
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: card to legally possess a gun or ammunition. So because
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: she didn't have the paperwork, she was arrested, booked into
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the Fayette County Jail, and charged with four counts of
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: unlawful possession of a firearm.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: When I read this, it totally made me think of
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the Al Capone analogy.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: That's perfect.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Capone was a notorious violent mob boss, but he was
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: ultimately taken down by the IRS for tax evasion. Is
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Donna being arrested for a paperwork issue with guns just
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: a strategic placeholder? Is it a way to keep her
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: in the legal system while they investigate her real role
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: in creating Kylie's abusive environment?
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: That is a perfect analogy, and it is exactly how
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: strategic prosecutions work. Let's break down the mechanics of the
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: search warrant and the Fourth Amendment.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's hear it.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: When police establish probable cause for a murder, they get
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: legal authority from a judge to enter a property and
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: search for Very specific evidence related to that murder. They
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: are looking for the jumper cables, forensic evidence, Kylie's clothing,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: digital devices.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Right. Things connected to the crime.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: But while they are inside executing that lawful warrant, they
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: operate under what is called the plain view doctrine.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Meaning if they see something else illegal, they don't have
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: to ignore it just because it's not.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: On the warrant. Precisely. If they are legally standing in
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: a living room looking for a murder weapon and they
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: stumble upon illicit drugs or, in this case, unregistered firearms
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: in a home owned by someone without a FOID card,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: that is entirely actionable.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: They can just seize it?
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Yes. The firearms become constructive possession charges. And what this
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: does is give prosecutors immense leverage.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: It allows them to squeeze her. Yes.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Investigators will now put Donna in an interrogation room. She
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: was the adult in the house. She was the legal
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: guardian holding the state's authority. She knows the exact dynamic
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: between Arnold and Kylie.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Right. She lived there.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: She knows why those DCFS calls were being made by
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Paige and Megan. These four gun charges give prosecutors the
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: leverage to say, you are facing serious felony prison time
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: for these firearms. Now, sit down and tell us exactly
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: what happened to Kylie. Tell us what you knew, what
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: you saw, and what you ignored.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Give us the truth or you go down for the guns. Exactly.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It is a calculated method to force her cooperation
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: against Arnold, or alternatively, to hold her accountable for turning
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: the other cheek to the abuse happening under her own roof.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: It is a way to ensure she doesn't just walk
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: away from the nightmare she was allegedly presiding over, simply
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: claiming ignorance.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: As we step back and synthesize this massive, devastating amount
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: of information, the picture that emerges is infuriating. This is
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: the story of a vibrant, strong 14-year-old girl who has
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: failed at every conceivable checkpoint society has to offer.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: She was failed by an adoptive mother who allegedly brought
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: severe danger directly into the home. She was failed by
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: a legal loophole from a plea deal two decades ago
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: that scrubbed a predator's record clean. She was failed by
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: a police force that allegedly ignored a violent confession about
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: an attempted murder. And she was failed by a child
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: welfare agency so paralyzed by bureaucracy and algorithmic caseloads that
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: that they literally told a worried caller to wait for
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: a 14-year-old hostage to speak up first.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: It is a total systemic collapse. And it serves as
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: a stark reminder for all of us that keeping children
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: safe isn't just about citizens picking up the phone and
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: calling a hotline when they see something wrong.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: It is about demanding accountability from the people on the
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: other end of those hotlines. We have to hold the agencies,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: the police departments, and crucially the legislators who fund and
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: structure these systems accountable. accountable when they drop the ball
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: so catastrophically.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: We have to.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: The laws governing what shows up on background checks, the
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: funding allocated for DCFS caseworkers to lower their caseloads, the
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: protocols for investigating hearsay threats, these are not acts of nature.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: These are choices society makes. And in this case, those
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: administrative choices cost a child her life.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: It is a heavy reality to sit with. And if
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: you are listening to this and you think, well, my
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: kids are in a safe neighborhood, this doesn't apply to me,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Remember that the exact same background check system that failed
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Kylie Toberman is the one currently screening your kids' baseball
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: coaches and school volunteers.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Yep, it's the exact same system.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: It affects everyone. But as we wrap up this deep dive,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: we want to leave you with a chilling paradox that
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: we didn't fully discuss in the main segment, but it
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: ties directly back to that statement DCFS released about Kylie
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: no longer being a youth in care. Yes.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: If you look at the fundamental concept of adoption, the
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: very act is designed to To give a vulnerable child
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: a permanent protective shield of family normalcy.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Right. It's supposed to be a good thing.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: It is meant to be the ultimate rescue from the
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: instability of the state system. But once that adoption is
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: finalized by a judge, the state legally steps back. They
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: wash their hands of the oversight.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: They close the file.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: The child is transformed on paper from a youth in
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: care into a private citizen living under the total unquestioned
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: jurisdiction of their new parents.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: And that brings us to the question we want you
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: to ponder today. Does the legal sanctity of parental rights
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: and family privacy, the very concepts meant to protect a
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: family from outside government interference, accidentally lock the door from
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the inside when the rescuers turn out to be the monsters?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: It's a terrifying thought, and one that the system desperately
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: needs to answer.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: It really is. Thank you for joining us on this
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: deep dive into the sources. Take care of each other
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: out there.