Latest / Rusty's Garage / Karl Reindler (Part 2)

Transcript

Karl Reindler (Part 2) · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:20
  G'day, it's Rusty here, all set for part two of my podcast with supercars racer turned F1 medical car driver, Carl Reindler.
• 0:28
  If you've arrived at this point and not heard part one, head back to the library and give it a listen.
• 0:33
  It charts Carl's career from his early days in Perth to a lesser known incident that could have ended his dream before it even began.
• 0:42
  making the move to race overseas and coming up against some great names at iconic tracks and much more.
• 0:49
  Now, later in part two here, we will talk about his position as medical car driver in Formula One, where he's required to use his race driving skills, if called upon, to get the F1 doctor to a crash scene as quickly and safely as possible and to assist the doc if needed.
• 1:08
  It seems like the last thing that he would want to do, and yet in some ways, the incident we are about to talk about in detail makes him a perfect candidate.
• 1:18
  We take you back to his home track in Wanneroo in Perth, Barba Gallo as it was called.
• 1:24
  The year is 2011.
• 1:25
  His qualifying and build-up to the race had been good.
• 1:28
  He'd only just met his now wife, Elise, and naturally, family and friends were there supporting him.
• 1:35
  The fireball crash that followed on the start line is one Supercast fans will never forget.
• 1:41
  Carl's memories of that day are crystal clear more than a decade later.
• 1:48
  I've come to terms with it.
• 1:49
  I'm comfortable with what happened.
• 1:52
  But at the time, yeah, I felt like we had really good momentum that season.
• 1:58
  We'd qualified sixth and had a great race result on the Saturday at Barbagallo.
• 2:04
  As you mentioned, I'd met my now wife, Elise, probably six months prior.
• 2:09
  I was also working very closely with Steve Hooker, who I met.
• 2:14
  Who's still a good friend, I think, isn't he?
• 2:15
  one of my best mates in the world and working with other athletes from other sports with Elise and Steve put a different perspective on how to approach the sport and confidence and being in the right headspace and I was living with Steve that year in 2011 and I
• 2:39
  I don't think I've ever mentioned it to him, but I think he really, between him and Elise, they brought the best out of me.
• 2:44
  I felt so confident going into that Barbagallo weekend.
• 2:49
  Things were looking good.
• 2:51
  You know, the relationships with the team were fantastic.
• 2:56
  It's just a good vibe in general.
• 2:59
  And I've been working on my fitness really hard for that six months, that entire year.
• 3:04
  So I felt, you know, I mentioned the first season, struggling physically in the car.
• 3:09
  I felt on top of the car physically.
• 3:11
  And that gives you confidence in itself.
• 3:15
  So we qualified on the Sunday morning.
• 3:17
  Qualifying went quite well.
• 3:20
  We had a few issues.
• 3:21
  I think we had some traffic, but ended up qualifying 13th for the first race and inside the top 10 for the second race.
• 3:29
  As you say, we're lined up on the grid for the start of the race, feeling good off the back of the result from the previous day.
• 3:35
  And,
• 3:36
  The process that I went through was really no different to any other time.
• 3:41
  We always lean on the clutch a little bit, try to find the biting points for an optimal start.
• 3:48
  And then the line locker, we obviously hit the brake pedal, there's a certain amount of pressure that you get, you hit the button, locks the front brakes on, so you can lean on the clutch without creeping forward and jump starting.
• 4:01
  I knew something was wrong really quite early in the piece, before the red lights even came on for the start.
• 4:08
  I remember finding the biting point and then sort of going back on it a little bit.
• 4:12
  And then I started to feel it like it's overheating.
• 4:16
  And I went straight away to the floor.
• 4:18
  I thought if it's overheating... Depress the clutch.
• 4:22
  Depress the clutch in all the way.
• 4:24
  and I could feel it effectively releasing on me.
• 4:29
  My foot was to the floor, but the clutch itself was starting to grab.
• 4:33
  So it had actually stalled.
• 4:37
  The engine had stalled before the red lights even came on.
• 4:41
  And there were no systems in place like they have now for vehicles that have stalled.
• 4:46
  There was no anti-stall in the car.
• 4:48
  So anyway, I had time to put it back into neutral.
• 4:51
  I fired the engine back up, put my foot on the brake.
• 4:54
  By this stage, the red lights had just come on.
• 4:57
  I put my foot to the floor on the clutch.
• 5:00
  gave it a bucket load of throttle and just jammed it into first gear, but the clutch had failed by this stage.
• 5:07
  So even with my foot to the floor on the clutch, the second I put it into first gear, the engines died and I was a sitting duck.
• 5:14
  There was absolutely nothing I could do at this point.
• 5:19
  And it's amazing when you're in those moments, the sort of fight off light thing kicks in and
• 5:26
  you remember it so, so vividly.
• 5:29
  You know, this was 11 years ago.
• 5:32
  And I can tell you, I can relive every single moment.
• 5:36
  I remember looking in the rear vision mirror and bracing myself thinking, you know, someone's going to hit me.
• 5:43
  And I remember Dave Reynolds in the Stratco car just missing me.
• 5:47
  And then the last thing I saw was Steve Owen in the, it was the VIP.
• 5:54
  Yeah, yeah.
• 5:56
  Paul Morris in front of you.
• 5:57
  Yeah, the Paul Morris car hit me.
• 5:59
  And then the next thing, the car's pitched so hard, the hit was so big, it's pitched up to the point, I'm looking straight down at the bitumen in front of me, the car's pivoted, yawed roughly 180 degrees to the right, off the track.
• 6:18
  And I felt the heat before I saw the flames.
• 6:22
  So we'd obviously split the firewall open in the car.
• 6:26
  And I knew I was in trouble at this stage.
• 6:30
  I remember starting to think, I need to get out of here.
• 6:33
  I saw the flames.
• 6:34
  I remember taking a deep breath and feeling it burning straight away through my mouth and my chest.
• 6:41
  It was a horrible feeling, but it's amazing how much
• 6:45
  I guess clarity you have in those moments as well.
• 6:48
  Yeah, it was a panic, but
• 6:50
  I knew exactly what I needed to do.
• 6:52
  We practiced getting out of the car on a regular basis.
• 6:55
  We have to get out in a minimum amount of time, but in the heat of the moment, no pun intended, you have other variables that you can never simulate in a practice run.
• 7:05
  I had to close my eyes, I had to take a breath.
• 7:08
  So I lost vision and I knew that I couldn't take another breath.
• 7:12
  I had one breath to get out of the car.
• 7:16
  Otherwise I was in a lot of trouble.
• 7:19
  And you know how we refer to the car as the cockpit.
• 7:23
  It's the cockpit of like a fighter plane in there.
• 7:25
  You're in this cocoon.
• 7:27
  You have limited mobility in the car.
• 7:31
  You're wearing gloves.
• 7:32
  You have your vision's obstructed whether you can open your eyes or not.
• 7:35
  You have all these attachments, five point racing harness as well.
• 7:40
  You, the window net to consider, the roll hoop, the roll cage itself.
• 7:44
  So you have this small amount of space to get out of
• 7:48
  So in theory, in simulation, yeah, undo your belt, undo your helmet fan, the radio, the cool suit, undo the window net, open the door and just get out.
• 7:59
  But when you lose your vision and you know you have a limited amount of time to get out…
• 8:06
  you you prioritize certain things i i didn't bother with the um the cool suit the cool suit hose had melted i didn't have to bother removing it um i just tugged on the radio with my head and uh it ripped the radio in half it just ripped it out and um also the the helmet fan
• 8:27
  I remember fumbling around trying to find the window net release.
• 8:33
  Got it pretty quickly in the end, and then the door release button as well.
• 8:37
  It's not like a conventional handle, it's a little button that you press to open the door, and I just jumped out as quickly as I could.
• 8:43
  And from the first impact to getting out of the car was 17 seconds.
• 8:47
  So it felt like an eternity, like it always does in those life or death moments.
• 8:54
  And I say that, it sounds dramatic, but the...
• 8:58
  Had I not been able to get it done, I don't want to know what the alternative was.
• 9:02
  Had I received any sort of spinal injury as well from the impact or been concussed, knocked out completely.
• 9:10
  These are the things that play in your mind afterwards.
• 9:14
  In the moment, it's fight or flight.
• 9:16
  Get out as quickly as you possibly can.
• 9:19
  There was Coxie from Kelly Racing, who I got to know the following year, had jumped the fence.
• 9:27
  there's common sense that prevailed jump the fence with an extinguisher he was the first on the scene then sam who was my number one mechanic was i think the second on the scene he's um spear tackled me to the ground and um you know rolling me around to get get rid of any flames that were on me and um then obviously the fire he's got there as well but um
• 9:49
  It was a horrible experience, but it's sort of funny in a way because I remember being in the med centre with Dr. Carl, Dr. Carl Lee, who looked after me and sort of managed it over the next couple of weeks.
• 10:05
  I remember thinking in the medical centre, I was in so much pain.
• 10:09
  I'd burned my hands, I'd burned my face, I had a burn to the back of my leg.
• 10:14
  All I could think about was whether the car was going to be ready in time for the afternoon's race because I qualified well and I wanted to have a red hot go.
• 10:23
  Anyway, I got a police escort to Joondalup Hospital and met Fiona Wood, who looked after my burns and obviously didn't make the afternoon race, which I was gutted about because Bridie went on to win it and Bugs, who was my teammate second year, ended up on the podium as well.
• 10:38
  So we had a phenomenal car.
• 10:40
  We qualified well.
• 10:41
  I feel like it was such a wasted opportunity.
• 10:43
  So I think I was more gutted in that moment that the opportunity lost.
• 10:51
  for that afternoon race.
• 10:52
  But obviously once you realize the extent of your injuries and the ramifications, it changes your perspective.
• 11:00
  And then you start to think about what could have been and the demons and the battles that you go through when you're faced with adversity on that level.
• 11:10
  You dissected this superbly with Chad Nailon, my colleague, very, very recently.
• 11:14
  Can we touch on a couple of things if we can?
• 11:16
  Firstly, you mentioned about the fact that the sound
• 11:20
  of the impact, the crash at the time, that is still a very, very vivid recollection for you to this day.
• 11:28
  Yeah.
• 11:28
  What was it like?
• 11:30
  Describe it.
• 11:32
  So I hadn't really spoken to many people about it for the best part of 10 years.
• 11:36
  And the one thing that stuck with me was...
• 11:41
  the sheer ferocity of the noise.
• 11:46
  Of the impact.
• 11:47
  The impact itself.
• 11:49
  It's so hard to describe, but the crunching metal, you know, a car that's hit me at 145 kilometres an hour, whatever it was, 40-odd G impact, that the noise that it made, it's a sensory overload as it is.
• 12:07
  Visually, the feeling, the heat coming through.
• 12:11
  But the one thing that really stood out to me was just the noise of crunching metal.
• 12:16
  And I've never heard anything so loud in my life.
• 12:21
  It's really difficult to put into words.
• 12:23
  Dr Fiona Wood is an amazing burn specialist.
• 12:27
  Australian of the Year, worked extensively with the Bali bombing victims from 2005.
• 12:33
  And she developed this spray-on tech, I think it's called Resell, isn't it?
• 12:39
  And so she worked with you in this process.
• 12:41
  And we probably do need to highlight the fact that the safety equipment that you had, from helmet to gloves, et cetera, actually did do a good job.
• 12:51
  Yeah, there was some criticism, almost like a knee-jerk reaction in a way that, oh, if the equipment had done its job, then Carl wouldn't have been injured.
• 13:01
  But no, it actually did its job.
• 13:05
  I sustained quite severe burns to my hands and the back of my leg.
• 13:09
  The back of my leg was only as a result of getting hitched on something.
• 13:13
  My suit actually got hitched on something as I was exiting the car.
• 13:17
  So it's a tricky one.
• 13:20
  You look at Jacques Villeneuve, who was a teammate the following year in supercars.
• 13:26
  He always wears the baggy suits, which is fantastic from a fire protection point of view.
• 13:32
  I got tripped up as a result of my suit also being too baggy.
• 13:35
  So it was a minor burn to the back of my leg.
• 13:39
  My hands themselves, everyone thought that the burns I had was as a result of direct flame-to-skin charring, but it wasn't.
• 13:47
  It was the radiant heat from inside the car.
• 13:52
  The experts, the fire experts, estimated it was between 800 and 900 degrees Celsius inside the car.
• 14:03
  cooks it cooks it boils boils the fluid inside your skin so it burns from the inside out so that the gloves did their job the trouble with gloves you need them to be tight and close to your skin for the best possible dexterity and feel when you're driving the car it burns to my face i can honestly only blame myself for that um
• 14:24
  In a touring car, it's common for us.
• 14:26
  Some guys wear visors all the way down.
• 14:30
  Frosty typically always wears his visor down.
• 14:33
  Some open them up.
• 14:35
  Windcup always had an open visor.
• 14:41
  I think it was a turning point for me because I always ran it open for better breathability in the car.
• 14:47
  I didn't think for a second that by having it open, I'd be exposing myself to such severe injuries.
• 14:52
  So I burned both my eyebrows off, my skin was all peeling off around my nose, um, and
• 14:58
  The very small pocket or space that was exposed was all burnt, but where the balaclava was, no trouble at all.
• 15:09
  So all the equipment did everything it was supposed to do.
• 15:12
  It was the only bits that were exposed that were injured on my face.
• 15:17
  You mentioned Fiona, and she is one of the most remarkable human beings.
• 15:22
  She's a special person and just the most humble, down-to-earth person.
• 15:28
  at what she does in the world.
• 15:32
  She's honed her craft.
• 15:35
  You talk about passion for something.
• 15:36
  She's passionate about that.
• 15:38
  And it was off the back of the Bali bombings in 2002, I think that she really worked and honed her craft and created this spray on technology that you mentioned.
• 15:51
  So I was so fortunate
• 15:54
  that had happened at Barba Gallo in my hometown where Fiona worked.
• 15:58
  And I got to know her really well over the next couple of weeks and went to a couple of charity balls to speak, do a Q&A.
• 16:09
  It was the least I could do to say thanks for the incredible work that she did.
• 16:14
  And you're sitting here with me right now, you know,
• 16:17
  No one else can see it, but there's almost no scarring whatsoever on my hands or my face, my leg.
• 16:23
  And I just, I reflect on it and think how lucky I was to be there.
• 16:29
  It was an awful accident, but there's so much, I think, to be grateful for as well.
• 16:34
  You get back on the horse fairly quickly and in a Porsche, at a club day, you know, get back behind the wheel, which I think is terrific.
• 16:41
  What I'd like to know in between is a couple of things.
• 16:44
  Firstly, was there ever an element of doubt in your mind about whether you'd had that big accident in the Formula V?
• 16:50
  You nearly, you know, amputation was contemplated when you talked about that earlier in the podcast here.
• 16:55
  Now this happens to you.
• 16:57
  And what are the discussions like with family?
• 16:59
  It's early days with Elise, but I mean, you know, mom, dad, whatever.
• 17:03
  Are they sort of saying, OK, we've had two goes from a luck standpoint here.
• 17:09
  Do we need to rethink things?
• 17:10
  Was there ever an element of doubt?
• 17:11
  And what were the conversations like?
• 17:14
  I think it was always on my terms.
• 17:18
  My family were always very supportive.
• 17:20
  Um, they, my mum, my mum was frightened.
• 17:24
  My mum was there that day.
• 17:25
  It was Elise's second ever supercar event she'd ever been to.
• 17:29
  She went to the Eclipsal 500 earlier that year and then Barba Gallo.
• 17:33
  And, um, it's, I think it, being a professional, um, race driver,
• 17:42
  you have to be selfish at times and it's very difficult to put yourself in the shoes of family members, but this was the first time ever.
• 17:49
  My mom explained to me how horrible it was.
• 17:52
  She was, she was in tears.
• 17:53
  She was so emotional about seeing her son, you know, her eldest son, um, in this fire.
• 17:59
  She, she, she had doubts herself, whether she saw it at first and thought, Oh, it can't be Carl.
• 18:06
  It can't be Carl.
• 18:06
  And then this realization, she explained to me that, um,
• 18:11
  oh my gosh, it is Carl.
• 18:12
  And then it's hard to talk about, but she thought the worst.
• 18:18
  She thought, my son, he's gone.
• 18:22
  Sorry, mate.
• 18:23
  No, it's just, but to hear that from family is really tough because you're...
• 18:30
  It's a different perspective.
• 18:31
  It's a different perspective.
• 18:32
  You're...
• 18:35
  you're out there doing everything for yourself and there is an element of being selfish.
• 18:39
  I think you do have to be a bit selfish when you're on the track, certainly.
• 18:44
  But to hear that from mum, it really played on my mind, I think.
• 18:50
  Especially mum.
• 18:50
  For Elise...
• 18:52
  She was supportive no matter what.
• 18:54
  She'd had her own trials and tribulations in her own sport.
• 18:58
  She'd had injuries and sickness, and she understood the adversity of sport in general and how hard it is to come back from something like that.
• 19:10
  So it was probably...
• 19:12
  probably talking to mum that it was the hardest part.
• 19:16
  And there were doubts.
• 19:17
  There really were doubts.
• 19:19
  I want to put a brave face on and say, no, it was never a doubt for a second.
• 19:23
  But the reality was...
• 19:26
  there were considerations.
• 19:28
  I've almost lost my life.
• 19:30
  My mum, you know, my mum's a mess.
• 19:34
  Is this something that I really want to be doing?
• 19:36
  But at the same time, she said, Carl, it's your choice.
• 19:40
  If you love the sport as much as I think you do, and I know you do, then you've got to do what's right for you.
• 19:46
  And I'll be supportive all the way.
• 19:49
  And I...
• 19:51
  It was a really tricky decision.
• 19:53
  And...
• 19:55
  I obviously decided to continue with the sport.
• 19:59
  Part of it, I think, was, well, most people will have a major accident in their career.
• 20:06
  Most will have a couple, but an accident of that magnitude doesn't come about very often.
• 20:18
  So I thought, this is probably the worst accident I'll ever have.
• 20:23
  If I can deal with that,
• 20:25
  and still love the sport, then I'd be crazy not to continue.
• 20:30
  So I had the support of everyone around me.
• 20:33
  As you mentioned, I jumped back into a car, a Porsche at a club event two weeks later.
• 20:38
  There were three weeks gap between Barbagallo and Winton the next round.
• 20:42
  So it was a very easy way for me to get back into it.
• 20:48
  At the circuit,
• 20:49
  that the actual accident happened.
• 20:51
  I think you've got to tackle these things head on.
• 20:55
  You can't shy away from them and it all worked out.
• 20:59
  I think the other thing I struggled with was everyone wanting to talk about it.
• 21:03
  And at the time I felt it was the right thing to do, but it sort of delayed or made things harder as well to talk about it.
• 21:15
  It was a really challenging few weeks.
• 21:17
  I mean, I'm dealing with the injuries and the pain and discomfort, and burns are horrible.
• 21:20
  And growing up as a boy, you have injuries left, right and centre.
• 21:25
  You fall off a bike, you fall out of a tree, you know, broken bones and grazes and what have you.
• 21:31
  But burns just linger on.
• 21:34
  The recovery time is significantly longer.
• 21:36
  So you're dealing with the physical side of things, the mental side of things, actually putting yourself in other people's shoes around you.
• 21:44
  and having to talk about it because everyone wants a piece of you off the back of something like that.
• 21:49
  So that was a really challenging few weeks.
• 21:52
  But the best part was jumping back into a car because it's your quiet time.
• 21:58
  No one can bother you when you're in the car and that's your happy place.
• 22:02
  Can we wrap up this little chapter if we can, mate?
• 22:05
  Because I know it's probably been a bit emotional recounting some of it.
• 22:08
  The sport's an amazing community, right?
• 22:10
  Yeah.
• 22:11
  people at the time are assisting you as this is going on.
• 22:14
  You've got great people like Dr. Carl Lee, as you talked about as well.
• 22:18
  They made some great decisions in the wake of this.
• 22:21
  I think they were already heading down that path anyway in relation to where the fuel cell would be placed in the car and so on.
• 22:27
  Did the sport, did you ever feel at all within the sport that you were,
• 22:36
  damaged goods because of this, or was it only ever that you were embraced?
• 22:40
  And I ask that with the greatest respect, because sometimes when drivers have a major crash, the brutality of the pit lane that we are in, the paddock we are in here now in Formula One, sometimes it changes their view, their perspective of you.
• 22:52
  feel that at all within supercars?
• 22:53
  Did it change anyone's view of you in the line?
• 22:56
  I don't think I've ever discussed this, but the truth is, being completely up front, I did think that for a period of time and felt I really had to prove myself off the back of it.
• 23:07
  And I think it was only three or four rounds later I had that great qualifying session at Queensland Raceway and qualified in fifth place.
• 23:17
  So that for me was...
• 23:20
  probably settled any doubts that I had, at least temporarily.
• 23:24
  But at the same time, I...
• 23:28
  you can't help but have those thoughts.
• 23:30
  What are other people thinking?
• 23:33
  How long can I, you know, keep doing the sport I love for?
• 23:36
  And I think it was about that time that I started conversations with the Kelly brothers, Kelly Racing, about 2012.
• 23:46
  And the fact that they were willing to engage in a conversation with me about...
• 23:51
  employing my services for the following season.
• 23:54
  It was a confidence booster, but it did hurt the confidence without a doubt.
• 23:59
  I spoke about how much confidence I had going into the Barba Gallow weekend.
• 24:02
  I felt like we had great momentum.
• 24:06
  Things were going so well and it really did affect things for a solid couple of months after that.
• 24:13
  Two-part question here.
• 24:14
  The decision to leave BJR.
• 24:17
  When you think back on it now, how do you feel about that?
• 24:19
  And looking at the chapter
• 24:21
  at Kelly's and knowing the promise, knowing the potential, et cetera, and perhaps how it didn't play out the way you anticipated.
• 24:28
  With the benefit of time, we've had a bit of time now, how do you look back on all of that?
• 24:32
  I'm not a believer in regret, right?
• 24:33
  I say that quite often.
• 24:34
  You make the best choice you can at the time for reasons that are important to you.
• 24:39
  But how do you look back on all that now?
• 24:45
  The Kelly Racing decision, in hindsight, was not the right decision for me.
• 24:52
  At the time, as you say, you make the best decision with the information you have.
• 24:57
  And I looked at their facility, what they're up to, the promises that they were making.
• 25:03
  And compared to BJR, BJR...
• 25:10
  what feels like a dingy sort of setup out there in Albury.
• 25:15
  But the reality is they focus on performance and what's critically important for results.
• 25:22
  Not to say that Kelly's didn't, but I think I was...
• 25:27
  lulled in a way into this you know this dream yeah this dream this this shiny shiny object in a way i remember going to their facility down in Brayside and it was it was world-class it was one of the best facilities i'd been to other you know race shops before and i was blown away at their facilities and and the people and the staff and and i thought wow this is this is next level it's
• 25:53
  Lots of promises as well.
• 25:55
  And the reality of it, calling a spade a spade, I really felt like that year was a bit of a write-off.
• 26:04
  I felt like once the conversation started with Nissan about instigating Nissan Motorsport for 2013 and beyond for Car of the Future...
• 26:15
  I've just got to say it as it is, that I felt they lost sight of that 2012 season.
• 26:21
  I felt they'd stopped putting effort into it.
• 26:23
  Murph, Todd and Rick as teammates, but it felt like...
• 26:32
  the Kelly side of the camp and the Murph and Carl side of the camp as well.
• 26:36
  And I loved working with Murph, but even he became, and you know Murph very well, he's your next door neighbor.
• 26:43
  He became quite bitter towards the latter part of the year about the effort that was being put in and the car was just, it was,
• 26:54
  It was probably the worst supercar I've ever driven at times.
• 26:58
  It was bordering on dangerous at some events.
• 27:01
  I remember the Sandown 500 event with Daniel Gauntz as my teammate.
• 27:06
  The thing was a bucking Bronco.
• 27:08
  It gave me a headache to drive this thing.
• 27:14
  it's so hard to stay I'm an optimistic person I'm a positive person glass half full all the time but when your teammates getting frustrated and bitter about the situation and you're not getting the results as well it's so hard to stay positive in that environment and yeah then there were promises about
• 27:37
  Nissan Motorsport the following year and then I remember the conversation I had with John Crennan that uh that I wouldn't be involved for 2013 and it was just gut-wrenching debilitating and I remember I was angry at the time that that I'd that I'd sort of uh
• 27:58
  felt like I'd been tricked in a way or been hard done by.
• 28:01
  You know, I came into this operation thinking that it was gonna be the best possible decision.
• 28:06
  And then BJR were having some fantastic results in that year, 2012.
• 28:12
  And in hindsight, yeah, I think if I were to do it all again with what I know now, I would have stuck it out.
• 28:19
  I just want to break into the podcast here for a brief moment.
• 28:22
  My policy with these things, as you know, is balance, but it's the guest in the guest's words.
• 28:28
  Now, to be fair to the Kelly brothers, Rick and Todd, and to John Crennan, who worked there at the time, I haven't spoken to them about Carl's chapter with Kelly Racing.
• 28:38
  They may have a very different view on it.
• 28:43
  One thing I learned out of the experience, because there's always learnings as well, is the importance and value of relationships and continuity.
• 28:52
  That's one thing I took out of it.
• 28:53
  So it wasn't all doom and gloom and negative.
• 28:56
  So I learned that, and that's something I've certainly taken forward.
• 29:00
  I wish I'd stuck it out with BJR and continued to work on those relationships and rapport and that momentum and confidence that we had throughout that 2011 season.
• 29:11
  I'm a big believer in balance, so can I ask this question if you're comfortable with it?
• 29:15
  In that phase, when the chips are down like that, when it becomes a grind like that because it's not going the way that you want it, I'm a believer in navel-gazing, right?
• 29:25
  Like, what can I do?
• 29:26
  Did you do some navel-gazing?
• 29:28
  Were there things you feel like you could have done better in that phase yourself?
• 29:32
  Yeah, you always think...
• 29:34
  what's in my control and what's out of my control.
• 29:37
  You have to establish that.
• 29:38
  I'm quite a pragmatic person.
• 29:42
  You're trying to talk yourself into it every time.
• 29:44
  I remember going to race weekends and taking a deep breath before going and thinking, okay, how's this gonna work out?
• 29:51
  As long as I feel like, as long as I put my best foot forward and do everything in my power to get the best possible outcome,
• 30:02
  I might be disappointed in the result.
• 30:05
  I can't be disappointed in the effort that I put in.
• 30:08
  And it was a bit like that.
• 30:11
  The tail half of the year, we had a couple of...
• 30:15
  It was one qualifying session...
• 30:18
  we ended up at the pointy end of the grid.
• 30:22
  Somehow it aligned.
• 30:24
  We had, the car was, it had a very small window for setup and we somehow found this window and we managed to qualify quite well.
• 30:33
  But it just felt like a grind day in, day out.
• 30:38
  And when I found out that
• 30:41
  I had no opportunity in 2013 with Nissan Motorsport.
• 30:46
  You shift your focus to, well, where are the other opportunities at that stage?
• 30:50
  And I don't think I've ever spoken about it, but I was a really long way down.
• 30:55
  I remember going to the US in December that year.
• 31:00
  with Elise and Steve Hooker and his now wife.
• 31:04
  And I was on the phone almost every single day of that trip with DJR about a drive for the following season in 2013.
• 31:12
  And we just, I had a commercial manager on board that was looking after the commercial side of the sport and sponsorship and we came so close to putting a deal together for 2013.
• 31:23
  And I remember I was in, it was the tail end of that trip in North America
• 31:30
  where we couldn't put the deal together.
• 31:33
  And I had this realization that I'm not going to get a drive for 2013 full time.
• 31:39
  And as gut-wrenching as it is, when you've worked so hard towards it, there was almost this...
• 31:48
  Just having clarity over not being there.
• 31:51
  In a weird kind of way, there was this sense of relief as well.
• 31:56
  So I took a few weeks off and then the focus shifts to, well, what's next?
• 32:04
  What do you do?
• 32:05
  I've made the move to Melbourne by this stage at the start of 2012 to take the sport more seriously.
• 32:10
  Melbourne's sort of the hub for motorsport in Australia.
• 32:15
  I was doing everything right, taking the sport seriously, was in the workshop every other week.
• 32:20
  Now what?
• 32:21
  And despite the way I felt I was treated throughout 2012, I was able to put that...
• 32:30
  behind me, and I got the opportunity to drive with Rick in the Jack Daniels car, the Nissan car for 2013 for the Enduros, which was actually a really enjoyable experience.
• 32:41
  I actually loved working with Rick that year.
• 32:43
  It was a great car to drive.
• 32:46
  It just didn't have the straight line speed.
• 32:48
  So...
• 32:49
  It was a lot of fun.
• 32:52
  I remember leading the Gold Coast 600 race, overtaking Daniel Gaunt, actually, my teammate, the previous year for the lead of the Gold Coast 600.
• 33:02
  We finished, I think, fifth or sixth.
• 33:06
  So we had a really good result.
• 33:08
  Loved driving that car.
• 33:10
  And then I think at the same time, Elise and I had been talking about life and starting to take our own relationship a bit more seriously.
• 33:20
  And she'd obviously finished up the Olympics in 2012.
• 33:24
  She went to London Olympics.
• 33:25
  And she was contemplating similar things to what I was.
• 33:28
  What's next?
• 33:29
  What happens after sport?
• 33:31
  Can I keep doing the sport at arm's length?
• 33:33
  Do I want to?
• 33:34
  And it's really hard to let go of a sport like this.
• 33:37
  So I ended up taking 2014 off and our daughter Charlotte was born that year and we had a lot of difficulties and complications getting pregnant in the first place but also...
• 33:53
  Charlotte was born with congenital heart disease.
• 33:56
  So to take the year off 2014 and focus on that was probably the best thing I could have done.
• 34:02
  And I think a year away from the sport, I thought it was gonna be really hard to get back in, but it puts so much in perspective.
• 34:13
  I guess it shows you what's important as well.
• 34:15
  Yeah, my Charlotte was born and,
• 34:19
  we she's a good little fighter mate she is a fighter she's uh she's a very resilient little girl and um you know we've since uh we've since she's had a heart procedure late last year and she's fighting fit and and super strong and and just the most amazing little girl and um having that year off in 2014 was the best thing for me and i think i'm
• 34:42
  The best I ever drove in my racing career was after that year off.
• 34:46
  And I remember sitting at the driver's briefing in 2015 for the Sandown 500 when I was racing with Tim Blanchard.
• 34:54
  And I remember thinking, everyone's...
• 34:56
  It's a bubble.
• 34:57
  Everyone's taking this so seriously.
• 34:59
  I'm just grateful to be here.
• 35:01
  And I think the last...
• 35:04
  It's a real perspective shift, mate, isn't it?
• 35:06
  Well, I think I...
• 35:08
  Another learning here, I think I'd lost sight of the fun factor in 2012.
• 35:12
  Well, I had.
• 35:14
  I was not enjoying it in 2012.
• 35:16
  2013, you know, it was arm's length.
• 35:19
  I did a few races.
• 35:20
  It was okay, but I think the effects of 2012 were still there.
• 35:27
  And I was not loving the sport like I was.
• 35:30
  And I'm a big believer that if you don't love doing something, you should find something else to do.
• 35:35
  So the year off was great, put everything in perspective.
• 35:38
  I came back in 2015 with a new lease on life and I never drove better.
• 35:42
  And I attribute that...
• 35:44
  to having fun again.
• 35:47
  And another thing I've learned from my motorsport career is if you enjoy doing something, you're going to do a good job of it eventually.
• 35:56
  If you're persistent and you love it and you're having fun, you're going to do a good job of it.
• 36:00
  And that's a really important life lesson that I've got out of motorsport.
• 36:05
  And I found that fun factor again in 15.
• 36:08
  Had a cracking sand down 500.
• 36:10
  It didn't work out at Bathurst, unfortunately.
• 36:15
  Tim hit the wall at the great, which ended our race.
• 36:18
  Just an honest mistake that happens at the mountain.
• 36:21
  But even 2016 with Lee and Charlie had a great year and I was just loving the sport.
• 36:26
  Elbows out, having good races, and just fell back in love with the sport.
• 36:30
  And it was a great feeling.
• 36:41
  I need to take a breath.
• 36:43
  What a journey.
• 36:44
  And what a guy.
• 36:45
  Thank you.
• 36:46
  Thank you.
• 36:47
  Thank you, Carl.
• 36:48
  And now, on to the next chapter of life.
• 36:51
  All with a big smile on his face.
• 36:53
  Keep it going, Rusty.
• 36:55
  When was the decision to stop?
• 36:58
  And have you fully drawn a line in that regard?
• 37:01
  Now, we're going to talk about your new role in a moment.
• 37:03
  But is there still a want to dabble in a few little things and go off and drive something?
• 37:06
  Or is it done now in your mind?
• 37:08
  No, it's done and I'm so content with it.
• 37:11
  Where did you come to that realisation?
• 37:13
  Well, it wasn't all on my terms.
• 37:16
  So I did the 2016 and 2017 season with Lee in the Preston hire car with Charlie.
• 37:23
  It was a two-year deal.
• 37:25
  So I did the first year, which is a single-year deal.
• 37:28
  Then I signed a two-year contract for 2017 and 2018 with Charlie.
• 37:33
  And...
• 37:36
  It was really disappointing how it worked out there.
• 37:39
  We had a great result.
• 37:40
  We finished sixth again at the Gold Coast 600 race in 2017.
• 37:46
  Everything was great, working well, loved the team.
• 37:51
  And I think it was a text message I got
• 37:56
  from charlie no it wasn't even from charlie um forget who anyway not even the the decency of a phone call or a conversation about it it was hey
• 38:09
  we're going with someone else for this year.
• 38:13
  I said, I've got a contract in place.
• 38:16
  This is late January.
• 38:18
  So I firstly tried to negotiate and understand the reasons why, if it's a financial thing.
• 38:23
  I'm happy to discuss potentially reducing my fee for the year or different payment terms, whatever it might be.
• 38:33
  I'm a team player and I'm happy to discuss with you.
• 38:35
  But they'd already formed, they'd made their mind up about it.
• 38:38
  And it was so disappointing at the time.
• 38:42
  And I didn't know what to do, how to tackle it.
• 38:46
  when I realized the writing was on the wall and they made the decision.
• 38:49
  Late January, all the decisions are made at the tail end of the previous year for Enduro Drive.
• 38:54
  So I thought, what am I gonna do now?
• 38:56
  And I remember desperately making phone calls to every team manager that I had in my phone book to see if there are any opportunities available.
• 39:06
  And then halfway through February, realized that it was done.
• 39:13
  I wasn't gonna be driving at all that year.
• 39:15
  And I was angry.
• 39:18
  I was fuming at the way that I'd been treated.
• 39:21
  And since, just to clarify, you know, everything's cool with Charlie now.
• 39:28
  But I was really pissed off with him at the time.
• 39:30
  And I let it be known that that's how I felt.
• 39:34
  And I just felt like I'd been screwed over.
• 39:38
  I consider myself to be one of the nice guys in the sport.
• 39:40
  And it just...
• 39:42
  One thing I have to say about the sport, it can bring the best and worst out of people.
• 39:46
  You get highly successful people that become cowboys in a way at times.
• 39:54
  I love the sport to bits, but I can see why people end up bitter about the sport or with chips on their shoulder about things.
• 40:01
  I didn't want that experience.
• 40:04
  I wanted to have fond, good memories of the sport that I love.
• 40:10
  I had to deal with that throughout the year and again going through the challenges of what am I going to do now.
• 40:16
  I'd had other opportunities out of the sport in the automotive industry.
• 40:20
  I'd done a stint working at Confederation of Australian Motorsport as their high performance manager.
• 40:26
  But when you're told at that point, when you think you've got something secure and it's just plucked out from underneath you, what do you do now?
• 40:35
  And that was a really tough period to go through.
• 40:40
  My son, Sebastian, was born in 2017.
• 40:43
  So I've got two kids and a dwindling motorsport career here.
• 40:49
  What do you go and do now?
• 40:52
  And I...
• 40:56
  actually received a phone call from someone in January about a potential job opportunity and I thought, well, again, my attitude towards things, let's have a go at it.
• 41:08
  So I started working more in the automotive industry with Jeff Becker.
• 41:16
  He gave me some flexibility to continue doing work in motorsport.
• 41:19
  So just because I wasn't competing in motorsport, it didn't mean that I wasn't involved.
• 41:24
  You still love the game.
• 41:25
  I still love the game, and there's so many different roles that I've taken on in the sport, from driving standards to coaching, did some engineering for a little while, worked very closely with Motorsport Australia and the FIA on...
• 41:40
  on programs overseas, training programs overseas.
• 41:43
  It took me all around the world.
• 41:45
  I feel so lucky to have had these opportunities.
• 41:48
  I went to Romania, to Nepal, to Sri Lanka, to Korea three years in a row delivering these training programs.
• 41:56
  And I...
• 41:57
  I have to say that some of the most rewarding stuff that I've done in the sport because you're giving back, you're imparting knowledge to people that are equally passionate about the sport and enabling them to pursue the passion that they love.
• 42:11
  And that was a real thrill for me and I found, you know,
• 42:16
  you know, I could continue the passion that I have in a different way.
• 42:20
  So in the midst of all of that, in helping emerging drivers and people in motorsport and so on, an opportunity opens to drive the medical car in Formula One.
• 42:31
  How did that come about?
• 42:32
  Are you enjoying that?
• 42:33
  And you're kind of doing half the season in this role now, aren't you?
• 42:37
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:39
  This opportunity came about, really, I mentioned meeting Alan Vandermeer, who won the British F3 Championship, I think, 2003 off the top of my head, when Courtney was over there competing.
• 42:53
  I met him at the Carlin Test with Adrian Burgess back in 2004, off the back of winning the Australian Championship.
• 43:00
  I lived with Alan in 2006 in the UK.
• 43:03
  Crazy how worlds have collided here, mate.
• 43:06
  That's amazing.
• 43:07
  And we didn't exchange numbers when we were at the test day, but we got on well and to this day is one of my best mates in the world.
• 43:15
  I ran into him at a petrol station in Milton Keynes in 2005, and he said, mate, we should catch up.
• 43:25
  He was working for BAR Honda at the time.
• 43:27
  He used to drive that thing on the Bonneville Soul Flats, I think, didn't he?
• 43:32
  He did a record in that thing.
• 43:33
  He holds the world land speed record for a Formula One car.
• 43:36
  He said, come down, we'll do some training at the Honda facility.
• 43:40
  It'll be great.
• 43:41
  So we lived together that year.
• 43:43
  He got the call up.
• 43:46
  We did A1GP together as well.
• 43:48
  He was the South African driver for a period of time there.
• 43:51
  And he started driving the medical car, I think it was 2009.
• 43:55
  He ran into Charlie Whiting at an airport and Charlie said, hey, we need someone for this role.
• 44:00
  Would you be interested?
• 44:03
  So off the back of doing this role in Formula One, Alan started, he saw an opportunity.
• 44:10
  He's a clever guy, isn't he?
• 44:11
  He's a very clever guy, software developer.
• 44:14
  He started this business, Signal Biometrics, with Ian Roberts, who is still the doctor for Formula One.
• 44:21
  And the biometric gloves that they wear in Formula One are the gloves that Ian and Alan have created.
• 44:28
  So Alan started this phenomenal business and it's sort of grown organically.
• 44:33
  They haven't advertised or done any marketing.
• 44:35
  And he sees opportunities.
• 44:39
  He looks at the world differently and I've got the utmost respect for him.
• 44:43
  But he got to the point where...
• 44:46
  He needed to be involved in Formula 1 to continue growing the business.
• 44:50
  But by being involved in Formula 1 and being away for 22 weekends or weeks of the year, didn't have the time to grow the business.
• 44:57
  So he called me at the start of the 2019 Formula 1 season and said, Carl, this is my situation, classic catch-22.
• 45:08
  The only way forward for me, I think, is to share the role, but there's only one person on the planet I can think of that I think is up to it, that I trust as well to doing the role, and it's you.
• 45:20
  Would you be interested in sharing the role?
• 45:22
  I said, mate, of course, I'd love to do it.
• 45:24
  It's meaningful.
• 45:26
  It's Formula One.
• 45:27
  It's the pinnacle of the sport.
• 45:30
  How do we make this work?
• 45:32
  Charlie Whiting had passed away that year and Michael Massey had taken the reins as race director and Alan planted the seed with Michael.
• 45:42
  Michael was supportive of it towards the tail end of the 2019 season.
• 45:46
  The intention was to do the roles, split the role in 2020.
• 45:49
  I sat in the med car at the Australian Grand Prix in 2020 with the intention of going to Bahrain the following weekend.
• 45:58
  The world changed.
• 45:59
  COVID happened.
• 46:00
  It was Friday the 13th of March, 2020.
• 46:03
  I remember the day clearly.
• 46:04
  It was an eerie day at the Grand Prix where the spectators were left outside.
• 46:08
  Unforgettable.
• 46:09
  I remember it vividly.
• 46:09
  That press conference is the biggest press conference I've ever been to.
• 46:14
  It was just weird.
• 46:16
  It was unusual.
• 46:18
  And I thought the opportunity is lost.
• 46:22
  I still had other opportunities.
• 46:23
  I was doing a lot of other things within motorsport and sports.
• 46:27
  and also automotive.
• 46:30
  And kept the conversations up, but I thought maybe the opportunities come and gone and that's that.
• 46:39
  Michael, won't go into his exit from Formula One, but he obviously left at the end of the 2021 season.
• 46:47
  And I thought,
• 46:52
  the one guy who was supportive of this happening, well, both guys, Alan left as well at the end of 21.
• 46:57
  The, the opportunities lost.
• 47:01
  And then Niels actually reached out the current race director, Niels Vidic in February this year and said, Hey, I believe we've, we've had some conversations with you from all accounts.
• 47:13
  You're the guy for the role.
• 47:14
  You, would you like to pick up the conversation?
• 47:16
  And of course I said, yeah, let's, let's talk about it.
• 47:20
  And, um, I,
• 47:22
  He wanted two people for the role.
• 47:24
  There's no sort of redundancy built into the role.
• 47:26
  It's a bit like Bernd Maylander.
• 47:28
  He's done the role for the best part of 23 years.
• 47:33
  So, yeah, we worked out the calendar and...
• 47:39
  Got the gig, arrived at the Australian Grand Prix, and baptism of fire.
• 47:46
  Was just thrown at the deep end, work it all out.
• 47:48
  Ian's been fantastic, getting me up to speed, educating me about the role.
• 47:53
  It's not just about driving the medical car fast around the track, it's so much more than that.
• 47:58
  And I was exposed to a pretty major accident with Joe Guan Yu at the Silverstone Grand Prix earlier this year, and
• 48:07
  Yeah, you never want to see it.
• 48:09
  I always say a boring weekend for me is a successful weekend in the role, but...
• 48:15
  you learn so much from those experiences and thankfully everyone was okay.
• 48:19
  I'm loving it.
• 48:20
  The role is special.
• 48:23
  I feel like we're actually making a difference in a way.
• 48:26
  And you get to drive two cool cars, don't you?
• 48:28
  So a couple of great cars between the AMG GT 4-door and the Aston Martin DBX.
• 48:34
  So yeah, I've been flown around the world this year.
• 48:36
  Went to Azerbaijan, which is an amazing place.
• 48:40
  Did the Silverstone Grand Prix.
• 48:42
  Hunger Roaring.
• 48:43
  I love Hungary.
• 48:44
  It's a pretty special place as well.
• 48:46
  And my ancestors are actually Hungarian, Austrian and Hungarian.
• 48:50
  So it was pretty cool to go there.
• 48:52
  French Grand Prix.
• 48:53
  We're here this weekend at Singapore and I have Abu Dhabi at the end of the season.
• 48:57
  So I honestly feel so lucky to be here and doing this role.
• 49:02
  And I'm
• 49:03
  It's exciting.
• 49:04
  Mate, thank you.
• 49:04
  We've had an amazing conversation here and covered a heck of a lot of ground.
• 49:09
  Great to see that you're at peace with it and the way that you've kind of framed that whole massive crash now.
• 49:16
  And I love the fact that there's a giveback here, that you're enjoying, you know, perhaps even the instruction side for young drivers and things like that and working here in Formula One again.
• 49:27
  Great to shoot the breeze with you.
• 49:28
  Thank you so much.
• 49:28
  Yeah, likewise.
• 49:29
  Thanks, Rusty.
• 49:36
  Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
• 49:40
  Series editor and producer is Ed Gooden.
• 49:43
  Audio production by Link Kelly.
• 49:46
  If you've got a guest suggestion, get in touch with me via social media.
• 49:50
  The Garage.
• 49:51
  It's where a journey begins with a tank full of passion-fuelled stories.
• 49:56
  Music.