Latest / Ryder Lee / David Thibodeau | WACO Survivor

Transcript

David Thibodeau | WACO Survivor · Ryder Lee

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Waco survivor David Tibadero, Welcome to the show. It's an
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: honor and a privilege to have you answer. How are
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: you doing.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I'm very good. Thanks for having me here today. I
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: appreciate it.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Man, I have so many questions for you. So where
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I really want to start today, it's because you're a musician.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: So as a musician, you're a drummer, and that's always
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: been your passion, you know from reading your book, is
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: music and playing the drums. So with that in mind,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: do you think that life imitates art or art imitates life.
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  Speaker 2: I think there's some things that happened in life that
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: defy a writer's room. You know, there's some pretty amazing
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: writing out there. There's some incredible shows, and you know,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: you never know what's going to happen next year. Take
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  Speaker 2: a character gets in a situation that he can't possibly
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: get out to get out of, and then a creative writer,
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  Speaker 2: you know, gets out of it and you're like, I
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: never would have thought of that, that kind of thing.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: It's great writing, But there's sometimes in life where the
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: reality is just so far beyond anything that you think
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  Speaker 2: you could have constructed in your own mind. You know,
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  Speaker 2: and that absolutely was WAKEO. And you know, see, there's
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: this dimension it's missing in WAKEG. It's it's purposely missing
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  Speaker 2: on my part. And I know there's not many other
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: people that can really tackle the subject. And that's that's
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: the scripture. Everybody against that David who was teaching something
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  Speaker 2: out of the Bible that made sense to a lot
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  Speaker 2: of people, some people that have been studying scripture their
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: entire lives, and he comes across and he's teaching these
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: seven seals. I know people talked about a lot, but listen,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: it's hard to overestimate the importance of the scripture when
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: it comes to what happened at Waco. Most people keep
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: it political. You know, even even people that I find
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  Speaker 2: to be kind of libertarian bent or really understand the
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Constitution and really realize the violations that have taken place
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: at Waco, don't want to look at the scriptural aspects.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: And I think they walk away, even you know, especially
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: very intelligent people, they walk away thinking, well, maybe the
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: people there, they're just a little bit duped, you know,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: just they just had to wool pull over their eyes.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: That Krush was a con man. As the FBI said
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: over and over, God that David was a con man. Well,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: you know, David was a lot of things, and you know,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: he made some terrible decisions that led to a lot
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: of problems for a lot of people. He put a
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: lot of people in danger. He's historically coming off as
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: not not one of the better people that have ever existed,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: And I understand that, but there was still a depth
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: there that people just don't at all want to focus
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: on her, think about, or talk about. Even there's like
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: a very very few. And I bring this up because
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the ferocity of what the government did I believe was
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: spiritually motivated.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I believe so too. And we're gonna get into that.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: What do you think was the biggest lie? And I
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: know that there was a lot of them that was
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: told about Mount Carmel during the Siege of March of
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three by the media or by the ATF
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: or the FBI.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I thought you were going in a different way there.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: So first let me answer the question I thought you
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: were going to ask, And what do I think that
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  Speaker 2: was the biggest lie that they told them? Why? And
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: then I'll tell you I'll answer your question. But to me,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: the helicopters shooting at the building. It's something that they
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: have all denied, all of the agents on the ground
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  Speaker 2: and the agents and the helicopters for years they said
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: that the helicopters did not fire unto the building. And
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  Speaker 2: then at trial we had one of the defense attorneys
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  Speaker 2: was like, are you saying that you know none of
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: the helicopters fired in at the building, And the guy
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: in the stand said, I want the ATF guys. The
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  Speaker 2: head guys said, yeah, there were no mounted guns on
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: those helicopters. Well, that wasn't the question. The question was
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: that the helicopters or people that were on the helicopters
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: shoot into the building. And then he said he simply
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  Speaker 2: asked did the agents that were on the helicopters where
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: they armed? And he had to answer yes. So the
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  Speaker 2: agents on those helicopters were armed. Many eyewitnesses on the
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  Speaker 2: ground saw the helicopters firing or saw shots from the
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  Speaker 2: helicopters headed toward the building. People on the inside, including myself,
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  Speaker 2: including Dick de Garon and Jack Zimmerman, the two attorneys
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  Speaker 2: that came into in the stiege, that the helicopters. The
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: evidence of bullet holes in the roof coming from the
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: outside in anyway. This is important because constitutionally we're not
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: supposed to use military equipment against American citizens now under
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  Speaker 2: the Positi Comitatis Act, because of the Warren Drugs back
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  Speaker 2: in the eighties, had a caveat that basically stated if
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: you could use military equipment against American citizens as long
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: as you could prove there was a drug nexus or
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  Speaker 2: a drug connection. And so Meat very blatantly lied about
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  Speaker 2: there being methanphetamines being produced at Mount Carmel under David Presher.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: There were absolutely no drugs there. He was never even
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  Speaker 2: accused of that. He actually turned in evidence of a
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: meta lab back in eighty five when he went out
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  Speaker 2: there and they had the gun battle with him and
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: George Road, and that was the whole thing. And so
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: they knew, they knew very well there was not even
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: any suspicion of a dragon nexust Amount Carmel, but they
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: lied and put that in so they could get the helicopter.
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  Speaker 2: So that alone, the whole premise for the raid is
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  Speaker 2: based on an immaculate lie. And I think if ever
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: put under scrutiny, in other words, if we're ever on
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  Speaker 2: the line, were people that were responsible for this raid
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: had a congressional hearing or were in danger of going
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: to jail for their actions, and then I think the
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: American public would find out some very frightening things about
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: what happened behind the scenes and how they even got
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: a warrant go and get David cris and they think
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: they would they would see that it was very unlawful.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I agree, But then unfortunately they turn after Waco, they
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  Speaker 1: turned all of their attention to outside terrorism. Wasn't domestic
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: terrorism anymore, they started looking at foreign terrorism, and then
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: nine to eleven happened, and then it just kind of
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: brushed I think everything under the rug from what happened
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  Speaker 1: with Waco, from what I'm really putting together.
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  Speaker 2: So there were also in ninety five though you had
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: you had Timothy McVeigh, which you know, at first they
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: said it was foreign terrorism, but then you know, they
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: finally had admitt this is this is a white boy
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: from what Wisconsin was he from the point is that
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: it was domestic terrorism. So you know, after after ninety five,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: two years after after Waco, there was no denying that
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: resources needed to be alloted to, you know, enemies domestic
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: as well as foreign. A tank is a pretty amazing
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: self fulfilling prophecy. I just want to throw that out there,
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  Speaker 2: you know, he said, about three months four months before
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: all this happened, I was on the roof of them
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  Speaker 2: we were building, you know, putting the roof on the
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: big place. They said, Tis, what are you going to do?
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  Speaker 2: Wh There's tanks running up and down the Double Ranch Road.
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  Speaker 2: And I said, David didn't never going to be tang
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: are you crazy? Sure enough, they brought tanks there, running
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: up and down the Double Ranch Road. So you know,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: hm hm, there was answer. You had an earlier question too. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sitting there during the siege and I'm reading scripture
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  Speaker 2: and the Psalms. It's talking about the whole world being
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  Speaker 2: against the Lord's anointed one, saying break there, let us
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  Speaker 2: break their business center and cast their cords away from
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  Speaker 2: us and David but say they didn't want the seals, right,
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  Speaker 2: So it's like you got all these armies. It's like
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: there's an army except for against us. And we're reading articles,
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  Speaker 2: we're hearing stuff on TV about them bringing in Russians
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: were coming in for for the Psychops program, literally representatives
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: from all over the world, and some of these tactical
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: armies were coming in to help the FBI, you know,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: with with training and tactics and things, and it's just
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  Speaker 2: you're reading this and that scripture now becomes literal. Right.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: The world has set themselves against this person. Everybody hated.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: If you remember, you probably you're too young. But if
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: you look at some of the every day they had
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: a press conference, Some of the press conferences so much
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: vitriol against the group. We're the most demonized group in
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: history at the time on a global scale. I mean,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: you know, when we came out of that place, we
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: were worried about being hit, having tomatoes shrouded us, literally everything,
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  Speaker 2: because they did such a thorough job of demonizing the group,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: so it was much easier, I think when when the
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: people died in the place burnt, for people to accept
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  Speaker 2: it as just a bunch of religious fanatics that got
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: what they deserve. And that's what the government was counting on,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: that the people would believe that