Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 21 May

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 21 May · The Bolt Report

0:14
Speaker 1: Tonight confessions of Elon Musk, the world's richest man. He
0:18
Speaker 1: flew high under Donald Trump and now comes to crunch
0:21
Speaker 1: an angry Musk coming up well, So tonight Labour's campaign
0:25
Speaker 1: boss gloats the journalists will fact check him, and also
0:27
Speaker 1: fact check a journalist who bought is global warming spooking?
0:32
Speaker 1: The first and just quickly, a word of warning to
0:36
Speaker 1: new Liberal leader Susan Lee, who I think is already
0:38
Speaker 1: making her first mistakes. Are you really going to announce
0:42
Speaker 1: your new front bench, your new shadow ministers before you
0:46
Speaker 1: fix this mess, before you get the Nationals to come
0:50
Speaker 1: back into the coalition with your liberals, Because that's just
0:55
Speaker 1: going to make this mess worse. The tip is that
0:59
Speaker 1: Leeb announce her new team tomorrow or Friday, and because
1:03
Speaker 1: the Nationals have walked out, all the shadow ministers will
1:06
Speaker 1: have to be Liberals. Problem is what happens when or
1:10
Speaker 1: if the Nationals and the Liberals make peace. What happens
1:13
Speaker 1: when the Nationals then come back into the coalition and
1:16
Speaker 1: demand the six or seven shadow ministries they're entitled to.
1:21
Speaker 1: Is Lee then going to sack the six Liberals to
1:25
Speaker 1: make way for them, humiliate six senior liberals seems to
1:29
Speaker 1: me that Lee has been more has been more focused
1:32
Speaker 1: on process than on outcomes. She said she needed time
1:36
Speaker 1: to re examine every policy. The Liberals have consult with
1:40
Speaker 1: every colleague before deciding which policy is to keep and
1:43
Speaker 1: which to scrap. So when the Nationals came to her
1:47
Speaker 1: this week and said, well, bottom line, there's going to
1:51
Speaker 1: be no coalition unless you agree to our four demands
1:54
Speaker 1: nuclear power, guaranteed minimum phone services for the Bush, twenty
1:57
Speaker 1: billion dollar development fund for the Bush, and powers the
2:00
Speaker 1: punish rip off supermarket chains, Lee said, no, too soon.
2:07
Speaker 1: I've got a process. Even though those four asks by
2:11
Speaker 1: the Nationals seem no brainers, even influential Liberal MP James
2:16
Speaker 1: Panison was admitting a deal on them couldn't be that hard.
2:21
Speaker 2: I was surprised and disappointed when I heard the news yesterday,
2:25
Speaker 2: particularly because I think that the four policy issues identified
2:29
Speaker 2: by David Little Proud and his National colleagues are not
2:32
Speaker 2: insurmountable issues. Have we been given reasonable time, we could
2:35
Speaker 2: have come to a mutually agreeable landing.
2:39
Speaker 1: Now to those Liberals saying, oh, yes, but the nuclear
2:43
Speaker 1: policy killed us the polls, we've got to get rid
2:45
Speaker 1: of that. At least. Look the Liberals problem isn't the policy,
2:51
Speaker 1: it's that they stopped arguing for that policy. And today,
2:55
Speaker 1: in fact, the mastermind of Labour's great campaign of lies
2:59
Speaker 1: and bribes, the National Secretary, Paul Erickson, could tell the
3:03
Speaker 1: exact months that the Coalition under Peter Dutton stopped arguing
3:07
Speaker 1: for their own nuclear policy.
3:10
Speaker 3: We notice back in January and February that nuclear energy
3:14
Speaker 3: had dropped out of all of the Liberal parties paid communication.
3:19
Speaker 4: I think between.
3:21
Speaker 3: November of twenty twenty four, an election day, they didn't
3:24
Speaker 3: place a single ad that promoted their nuclear energy scheme,
3:28
Speaker 3: and we took that as a sign that they were
3:30
Speaker 3: seeing the same thing that we were seeing, which was
3:32
Speaker 3: that there were a lot of others out there who
3:35
Speaker 3: had major reservations about their plan, and that the cost
3:41
Speaker 3: of their plan and the fact that the money would
3:43
Speaker 3: have to come from somewhere validated the concerns that we
3:46
Speaker 3: were pining to.
3:48
Speaker 1: Actually, Labor lied, as I showed you many times, Labor
3:51
Speaker 1: lied the Liberals reactors it would cost six hundred million
3:55
Speaker 1: dollars when the true costs accorded to CSIRO should have
3:58
Speaker 1: been more like one fifth of them. But for five
4:01
Speaker 1: months more, the Liberals did argue about all this, the
4:06
Speaker 1: Nationals leader Dave lil Prout today, So you couldn't believe
4:09
Speaker 1: how flat foot of the Liberals were in rebutting those
4:11
Speaker 1: Labor lies. We couldn't sell that.
4:14
Speaker 5: We didn't sell that, we weren't agile enough.
4:18
Speaker 1: Now the Liberals now really going to run from the
4:20
Speaker 1: nuclear power they've sworn for years is critical to cutting
4:24
Speaker 1: our emissions, is still keeping on the lights. I mean,
4:27
Speaker 1: if they said, oh, we got that wrong, who take
4:29
Speaker 1: them seriously about anything? Ever? Again? Now I know that
4:34
Speaker 1: labor genius you saw today was saying that the lessons
4:37
Speaker 1: of the Liberals from the selection was to drop nuclear power.
4:41
Speaker 1: Here he is.
4:42
Speaker 6: I say, elections are one when you learn the lessons
4:45
Speaker 6: from your defeats and escape the echo chambers on your
4:47
Speaker 6: own side. Whether they can do that is a question
4:50
Speaker 6: for them, but they should start by abandoning a nuclear
4:53
Speaker 6: energy scheme.
4:54
Speaker 1: Slabor Apparatchick would say that of course Labor wants the
4:58
Speaker 1: Liberals to stop let's into scus news, stop arguing for
5:02
Speaker 1: nuclear start backing Labour's green power schemes. Labor doesn't want
5:08
Speaker 1: the Liberals to think of or even offer an alternative
5:12
Speaker 1: to its disastrous green schemes. Of course it doesn't, so
5:17
Speaker 1: the deal with the Nationals should really be that hard,
5:21
Speaker 1: agreeing to nuclear and the rest. In fact, Lee reported
5:25
Speaker 1: even said that to David Little Proud, you know it
5:27
Speaker 1: can be done. Just give me time so it's easy
5:30
Speaker 1: to make a deal. And if it is easy, then
5:36
Speaker 1: make it fast, make it before more damage is done,
5:40
Speaker 1: and make it before the shadow ministry is appointed quickly.
5:45
Speaker 1: Or how about a compromise, you know, put a kind
5:47
Speaker 1: of skeleton shadow ministry, a handful of senior Liberals, each
5:50
Speaker 1: with multiple portfolios, to buy a few days a week
5:54
Speaker 1: or two to talk the Nationals back into the tent.
5:58
Speaker 1: But instead it's process process. When outcomes are now what
6:03
Speaker 1: are critical for the Liberals because the longer this divorce
6:07
Speaker 1: goes on, this is the most critical outcome. The longer
6:10
Speaker 1: there's no coalition, the harder it will be to get
6:14
Speaker 1: it back together. I'll talk more about the politics in
6:20
Speaker 1: a few minutes, but first to a fascinating insight last
6:24
Speaker 1: night into another political failure or political disappointment, probably Elo
6:30
Speaker 1: Musk for a while, seeing the most powerful man in
6:33
Speaker 1: the world, certainly the richest man in the world, the
6:35
Speaker 1: smartest man in the world. I've been able to catch
6:38
Speaker 1: rockets with chopsticks, the most influential man in the world,
6:42
Speaker 1: the owner of x with two hundred and twenty million
6:45
Speaker 1: followers of his own, and even one of the most
6:48
Speaker 1: politically powerful men too, the man that Donald Trump asked
6:52
Speaker 1: to go through the US government hunting for massive savings
6:56
Speaker 1: with his new Department of Government Efficiency or Dove. Well,
7:03
Speaker 1: you know, Musk has now left the White House, left
7:05
Speaker 1: Trump and gone back to Tesla's electric car company, which
7:09
Speaker 1: struggled badly without him back in the White House. It's
7:13
Speaker 1: now as if Musk never was. Trump used to mention
7:16
Speaker 1: his name every few days in his social media posts.
7:20
Speaker 1: Now he hasn't posted about Musk in more than a month.
7:24
Speaker 1: And last night Musk was interviewed by a hostile host,
7:26
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Michelle Hussain for the Qatar Economic Forum, and I
7:31
Speaker 1: think we learned again an old lesson that power is
7:34
Speaker 1: not what you have, it's what you're allowed. A Musk
7:39
Speaker 1: has now been allowed a lot less. Let me show
7:42
Speaker 1: you some of the most revealing parts of this interview.
7:44
Speaker 1: Musk donated nearly four hundred and fifty million dollars Australian
7:49
Speaker 1: to Trump's campaign. But Owsis is closing his wallet to politicians,
7:54
Speaker 1: at least for now.
7:55
Speaker 7: In terms of political spending, I'm going to do a
7:58
Speaker 7: lot less in the future.
8:00
Speaker 8: And why is that?
8:01
Speaker 4: I think I've done enough?
8:03
Speaker 8: Is it because of blowback?
8:05
Speaker 7: Well, if I see a reason to political spending in
8:08
Speaker 7: the future, I will do it.
8:09
Speaker 4: And in our currently serieson.
8:12
Speaker 1: I'm talking about blowback because Musk was so close to
8:15
Speaker 1: Trump and so influential in getting Trump elected, and so
8:18
Speaker 1: ruthless in finding savings for Trump, he was punished people
8:23
Speaker 1: who bought his electric cars. People of the left, Well,
8:28
Speaker 1: they would out finding those same cars being vandalized by
8:31
Speaker 1: the left that had once admired Elon Musk. Tesla cars
8:35
Speaker 1: charges showrooms, they were burned, and sales fell. Musk was
8:40
Speaker 1: asked about that last night.
8:43
Speaker 9: Tesla was an incredibly aspirational brand. People identified with it,
8:48
Speaker 9: it saw it, They saw it as being at the
8:50
Speaker 9: forefront of the climate crisis.
8:51
Speaker 8: And now people are driving around.
8:52
Speaker 9: With stickers in their cars saying I bought.
8:55
Speaker 8: This before we knew Elon was crazy.
8:57
Speaker 9: I wonder if some of what you've has had and
9:00
Speaker 9: to Tesla in the last few months did you take
9:02
Speaker 9: it personally?
9:04
Speaker 7: Yes, the violent antibody reaction. And I'm not someone who's
9:09
Speaker 7: ever committed violence, and yet massive violence was committed against
9:15
Speaker 7: my company's, massive violence was threatened against me.
9:19
Speaker 4: Who are these people?
9:22
Speaker 1: And MUSC was defensive about his failure to actually achieve
9:26
Speaker 1: the miracles in government with Trump that achieved with electric
9:29
Speaker 1: cars and satellite communications in rocketry, anything at all? BILLI
9:34
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley. He promised Trump last year he would
9:37
Speaker 1: save the government finances by finding savings of one trillion
9:41
Speaker 1: dollars this year US dollars now and another trillion dollars
9:46
Speaker 1: next year. It didn't happen.
9:50
Speaker 9: Before the election, you said it was going to be
9:51
Speaker 9: at least two trillion. The number currently on Doze dog
9:56
Speaker 9: garvs is one hundred and seventy billion dollars.
10:00
Speaker 8: Big change. What happened to the two trillion?
10:02
Speaker 4: Or do you expect you to happen immediately?
10:04
Speaker 1: Well?
10:05
Speaker 9: Is it going to happen because DAS is supposed to
10:07
Speaker 9: run till next July.
10:09
Speaker 7: Are you assuming that one day, you know, within a
10:12
Speaker 7: few months this instant two trillion saved.
10:14
Speaker 8: No, I'm not sure. I'm just asking is that still
10:16
Speaker 8: your aim?
10:17
Speaker 4: Then?
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Speaker 7: The magnitude of the savings is proportionate to the support
10:22
Speaker 7: we get from Congress and from the executive branch of
10:26
Speaker 7: the government in general.
10:27
Speaker 4: So we're not the dictators, we are the advisors.
10:34
Speaker 1: It's the power you are allowed. Now. Those cuts that
10:36
Speaker 1: Musk recommended, including cuts, included cuts to US foreign aid,
10:40
Speaker 1: and Musk was angry at the criticism, particularly from fellow
10:43
Speaker 1: multi billionaire Bill Gates, who had claimed that Musks cuts
10:48
Speaker 1: had killed the world's poorest children. Musk hit back by
10:51
Speaker 1: attacking Gates for his past friendship when the Tories pedophile
10:54
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, who.
10:56
Speaker 7: Does Billgates think he is to make comments about the
10:59
Speaker 7: welfare of children.
11:00
Speaker 4: Given that he is beforequent of Jeffrey Epstein.
11:05
Speaker 1: I should say, though, that there's no evidence for gates claims,
11:09
Speaker 1: But still I think you can see that time in
11:12
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's fierce light has come at a cost to
11:16
Speaker 1: even Elon Musk. Join me from Washington and Australian Stephen Hamilton,
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Speaker 1: Assistant Professor Professor of Economics at the George Washington University
11:26
Speaker 1: and a visiting fellow with Australian National University. Stephen Hamilton,
11:31
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time Elon Musk in
11:34
Speaker 1: that interview. I know it was aggressive, but it did
11:36
Speaker 1: sound angry, defensive and disappointed really about his time flying
11:45
Speaker 1: high in the Trump universe, even though he is or
11:49
Speaker 1: has for many years been the world's richest man. What
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Speaker 1: do you put it down to?
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Speaker 10: Yes, well, Trump in Mark one and now Mike does
11:59
Speaker 10: have they of disappointed people lying in his wake. Elon
12:03
Speaker 10: Musk is certainly not the first, but but I really
12:07
Speaker 10: do think it is this sort of flash or conflict
12:10
Speaker 10: between a kind of Silicon Valley mindset and the mindset
12:14
Speaker 10: of Washington, DC. Right, So, I think the mantra in
12:17
Speaker 10: Silicon Valley, you know that, I think Mark Zuckerberg brained was,
12:21
Speaker 10: you know, move fast and break things right. That's how
12:24
Speaker 10: you build a successful company in Silicon Valley.
12:28
Speaker 4: That's just not how Washington works. And you can try
12:31
Speaker 4: as hard as you want.
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Speaker 10: There was a lot of promise to doge Elon Musk,
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Speaker 10: the whole sort of Trump you know, drained the swamp,
12:41
Speaker 10: improved the government project.
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Speaker 4: But I just don't think it has delivered.
12:46
Speaker 10: You know, really what what anyone in their in their
12:49
Speaker 10: wildest dreams possibly could have hoped for.
12:53
Speaker 1: Well, Trump was promised by Elon Musk that Musk and
13:00
Speaker 1: is Doze unit would cut government spending by two trillion
13:05
Speaker 1: dollars next year one trillion this year. That's American dollars,
13:10
Speaker 1: huge amounts. What happened, Yeah, it's a good question.
13:17
Speaker 10: So firstly, the savings that have actually been promised are
13:22
Speaker 10: a tenth of that. Right, I think we're at about
13:25
Speaker 10: one hundred and eighty billion acclaimed savings, so you know,
13:29
Speaker 10: a tiny fraction of that, And yeah, we have to
13:31
Speaker 10: think Andrew, that's about a tenth of the deaf sit right.
13:35
Speaker 10: The US deficit is so enormous at around six percent
13:38
Speaker 10: of GDP that you know, even big savings of one
13:41
Speaker 10: hundred and eighty billion dollars don't really make a dent
13:44
Speaker 10: in the deficit. And actually, if we look at the
13:47
Speaker 10: numbers for the first hundred days of Trump's presidency, government
13:52
Speaker 10: spending is actually up on last year. So notwithstanding all
13:56
Speaker 10: of the public servants fired, you know, the parents of
13:59
Speaker 10: kids I go and talk to it, birthday parties who
14:02
Speaker 10: were laid off because they worked on the January sixth investigation,
14:05
Speaker 10: right for all of the aid contracts canceled.
14:10
Speaker 1: You know, the end of the day, the.
14:12
Speaker 10: Dollar figure that that delivered is just a drop in
14:16
Speaker 10: the pond. And I think the biggest lesson here.
14:18
Speaker 11: Is you can't solve the US.
14:21
Speaker 10: Budget problem by firing people. You can't solve the US
14:24
Speaker 10: budget problem by cutting foreign aid. At the end of
14:27
Speaker 10: the day, you know, the US government is a pension
14:32
Speaker 10: fund with an army, and so the only way to
14:36
Speaker 10: tackle the US budget problems is to go after the
14:38
Speaker 10: huge programs social security and Medicare defense. If you don't
14:43
Speaker 10: touch those, you really can't make much progress. And I
14:46
Speaker 10: think that's the that's the problem fundamentally, that the buy
14:51
Speaker 10: and arithmetic that Trump is and elinor run up against.
14:55
Speaker 1: And it's a political reality that once you give handouts,
14:59
Speaker 1: it's on impossible to claw them back. And that is
15:03
Speaker 1: a factor in Australia too. What lessons should Australia learn
15:07
Speaker 1: from what's happening in the US. I mean, we've just
15:09
Speaker 1: had the Victorian government post the budget yesterday that prophesizes
15:19
Speaker 1: a debt of nearly two hundred billion dollars in a
15:23
Speaker 1: couple of years or a few years from now, two
15:25
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars. And of course the Albanizi government just
15:30
Speaker 1: went to an election promising massive handouts as well, despite
15:35
Speaker 1: it hitting a trillion dollars next year of debt. What
15:39
Speaker 1: do we learn from America?
15:41
Speaker 10: So the US debt to GDP, So that's how big
15:45
Speaker 10: our debt is relative to the size of our economy
15:47
Speaker 10: is more than one hundred percent now and it's on
15:52
Speaker 10: track to hit one hundred and thirty percent in the
15:56
Speaker 10: next ten years. He is the fascinating thing. If we
16:00
Speaker 10: wind the clock back to two thousand and one, the
16:03
Speaker 10: US government ran a budget surplus and its debt to
16:08
Speaker 10: GDP was just thirty three percent. Right, what's Australia's debt
16:14
Speaker 10: to GDP today and what did we do last year? Well,
16:17
Speaker 10: last year we ran a surplus and at the moment
16:19
Speaker 10: a debt to GDP is thirty three percent, exactly what
16:22
Speaker 10: Americans was in two thousand and one. The problem is,
16:25
Speaker 10: looking forward, we have these big structural deficits and we're
16:29
Speaker 10: not doing anything to solve them, and everything we're proposing
16:33
Speaker 10: to do is going to make them larger. So, you know,
16:36
Speaker 10: I think the message for Australian policy makes us pretty clear.
16:39
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yet we seem so addicted to handout. So I
16:41
Speaker 1: mentioned the Victorian government budget yesterday. Now it's free public
16:45
Speaker 1: transport for kids, free public I mean freebies everywhere. And
16:50
Speaker 1: that's the generation that's going to grow up used to handouts,
16:53
Speaker 1: demanding handouts. Stephen Hamilton, thank you so much, indeed for
16:56
Speaker 1: your time.
16:58
Speaker 5: Is Edrew.
17:01
Speaker 1: Back to what I said at the top of the show.
17:02
Speaker 1: It's got to be possible for new Liberal leader Susan
17:05
Speaker 1: Lee to make a deal with the Nationals fast now,
17:08
Speaker 1: preferably to go back to the Coalition when the National's
17:12
Speaker 1: four demands seem so obvious. One nuclear power, two guaranteed
17:17
Speaker 1: minimum phone services for the Bush, three a twenty billion
17:21
Speaker 1: dollars development fund for the Bush and four powers to
17:24
Speaker 1: potentially break up supermarket chains. Joining me is Senator to
17:27
Speaker 1: James Patterson, who was the coalition's spokesman during the campaign
17:30
Speaker 1: and was Homer Fair spokesman before that. James, grateful to
17:34
Speaker 1: see you again. Look, why can't Susan Lee say yes
17:38
Speaker 1: to these demands? Say by the end of this week,
17:41
Speaker 1: you yourself have said it cannot be hard to reach
17:44
Speaker 1: an agreement, so why not do it now?
17:49
Speaker 12: Andrew.
17:49
Speaker 2: My view is that we must have an objective of
17:52
Speaker 2: putting the coalition back together comfortably before the next election,
17:55
Speaker 2: because it is not in the Liberal Party's interest, the
17:57
Speaker 2: National Party's interests, or the interests of the peace that
18:00
Speaker 2: we represent to go to the next election competing with
18:03
Speaker 2: each other. We've got enough other parties to fight in
18:06
Speaker 2: the election before we add any new ones to that.
18:08
Speaker 2: And it's also my view that the ideological gap between
18:12
Speaker 2: our parties is not so great that it cannot be bridged,
18:15
Speaker 2: and that those policy issues you identified can't also be resolved.
18:19
Speaker 2: They were resolved in the past. I think we can
18:20
Speaker 2: resolve them again. We have to go through our party
18:23
Speaker 2: process to do that. I wish we had that give
18:25
Speaker 2: been given the time to do that, because I think
18:26
Speaker 2: we could have arrived at a landing that would have
18:28
Speaker 2: been acceptable to the National Party. The one sticking point
18:31
Speaker 2: that I think does have to be addressed is, according
18:34
Speaker 2: to media reports and I haven't been involved in the
18:36
Speaker 2: negotiations myself, is that the National Party wanted an ala
18:40
Speaker 2: caratte option to not be bound by shadow cabinet solidarity.
18:44
Speaker 2: Now that is untenable in a Westminster parliamentary democracy. We
18:48
Speaker 2: have two hundred years of political tradition that explains why
18:50
Speaker 2: it's important to have that collective responsibility so that you
18:53
Speaker 2: can offer stable government.
18:56
Speaker 1: Look, I agree with you on that one, but let's
18:57
Speaker 1: face it, that wasn't actually one of the four key
19:00
Speaker 1: demands the Liberal the Nationals put in their press conference yesterday.
19:04
Speaker 1: They keep saying the four demands of listened them. That
19:06
Speaker 1: just seems to have been thrown into conversation. You don't
19:08
Speaker 1: even know if it's there, So I just put that
19:11
Speaker 1: to one side. You simply apart from that, restated my premise.
19:15
Speaker 1: It is easy, It can't be hard. You can do it.
19:19
Speaker 1: And my point is, why not do it this week
19:21
Speaker 1: and stop talking about process. You're going to have the
19:24
Speaker 1: outcome now, why not do it this week on those
19:27
Speaker 1: four gimme candi policies and get this thing done.
19:34
Speaker 4: Well.
19:34
Speaker 2: Susan, it's absolutely right to say that she's not going
19:37
Speaker 2: to have Captain's calls as leader, that she's going to
19:40
Speaker 2: take anything through the party room and the shadow cabinet.
19:43
Speaker 2: I think that's the right approach, and she shouldn't have
19:44
Speaker 2: made commitments on behalf of the Liberal Party to the
19:47
Speaker 2: National Party without consulting the Liberal Party. But I hope
19:50
Speaker 2: that if we're given the time to do that and
19:52
Speaker 2: we resolve these issues, and I think we can that
19:54
Speaker 2: the door does remain genuinely process to put the comition
19:59
Speaker 2: back together.
20:01
Speaker 1: Look, you've got this little phone right now on you.
20:03
Speaker 1: You're hooked on your phone. I know that. And there's
20:05
Speaker 1: a little thing, you know, teams or whatever, and you
20:08
Speaker 1: could do that this evening. You can do that this evening.
20:11
Speaker 1: That's my point. You know, all this talk about process,
20:14
Speaker 1: no one's telling you, hey, listen, you've got to resolve
20:17
Speaker 1: all the policies that just these four ones, like the
20:20
Speaker 1: nuclear one, which you yourself back. Why can't that be
20:24
Speaker 1: done quickly? I just think we're in this bureaucratic process thing,
20:30
Speaker 1: which means the Liberals aren't making a decision now when
20:32
Speaker 1: it needs to be made. And I wonder why you
20:35
Speaker 1: can't do it.
20:38
Speaker 2: Well, I hear you, Andrew, but I think there's two
20:40
Speaker 2: really important points to make. One is we just lost
20:42
Speaker 2: the election, and not by a little bit, so everything
20:44
Speaker 2: does need to be up for a view, and we
20:46
Speaker 2: need to make sure we demonstrate we've heard the verdict
20:49
Speaker 2: talking about four things it carefully. But secondly, the process
20:53
Speaker 2: that you're talking about. So I hear you, Andrew, and
20:55
Speaker 2: I've explained my view on those things, but the process
20:58
Speaker 2: you talk about I know that's seems like a minute
21:01
Speaker 2: in a detail and a bureaucracy, but actually it is
21:03
Speaker 2: really important. We do not want to have a period
21:06
Speaker 2: in the coalition where Captain's calls are made that go
21:10
Speaker 2: on to do us political harm. Every Liberal must own
21:13
Speaker 2: the positions that we then take to the next selection,
21:16
Speaker 2: and we shouldn't lightly enter into us now. I think
21:18
Speaker 2: we can get this done. I think those issues are resolvable,
21:21
Speaker 2: and I hope that the door remains open with the
21:24
Speaker 2: National Party to reform the coalition and quickly.
21:28
Speaker 1: Well, they won't push it. But I didn't say Captain's calls,
21:31
Speaker 1: and I didn't say every policy. The way you're putting
21:34
Speaker 1: the four easy things to sort to get the Nationals back,
21:38
Speaker 1: there are only four. You're going to now wait for
21:41
Speaker 1: a process where you decide, you know, item number five
21:44
Speaker 1: hundred and six on our list. Do we still believe
21:46
Speaker 1: in that until all that sort and then you can
21:48
Speaker 1: come back to the Nats. I mean they're only asking
21:50
Speaker 1: for four. Take a nuclear. Do you think nuclear that
21:54
Speaker 1: the Liberals should now run away from nuclear? Will stick
21:57
Speaker 1: with it?
22:00
Speaker 2: No, Andrew, I don't think we should run away with it.
22:01
Speaker 2: I've been on the public record for at least a
22:03
Speaker 2: decade advocating that Australia adopt nuclear power as part of
22:07
Speaker 2: a mix. And we don't have to take exactly the
22:10
Speaker 2: same form of a nuclear power policy as we did
22:13
Speaker 2: to the last election to the next election. But it
22:15
Speaker 2: is inconceivable to me that we will reduce emissions in
22:18
Speaker 2: Australia by twenty fifty or any other date without having
22:22
Speaker 2: it in the mix, or that we will have a
22:24
Speaker 2: sustainable productive economy without having nuclear in the mix. And
22:27
Speaker 2: the option that David little Priud has floated himself in
22:30
Speaker 2: the media of repealing the moratorium seems to me like
22:33
Speaker 2: a pretty good place to start.
22:36
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so you agree on nuclear. I know that
22:39
Speaker 1: Garth Hamilton agrees on nuclear. I'm pretty sure Tedo Brain
22:43
Speaker 1: still agrees on nuclear. I mean, we've already got three
22:46
Speaker 1: It can't be hard to haven't got that many people
22:49
Speaker 1: left for a quick whip brown by the end of
22:54
Speaker 1: the evening to sort out, Hey, we can agree to that,
22:56
Speaker 1: come back to the Nationals. I just think this is ridiculus.
23:00
Speaker 1: We're in this. Look, dare I say feminized idea of
23:04
Speaker 1: process process, process instead of outcome, outcome. Now, listen, Meanwhile,
23:10
Speaker 1: Labour's National Secretary Paul Erickson boasted at the National Press
23:14
Speaker 1: Club today about how genius Labor was, how terrible your
23:19
Speaker 1: campaign was and that bit is at least true and
23:22
Speaker 1: failed to mention Labour one with massive lives and bribes
23:25
Speaker 1: using borrowing money. But he did also say this about
23:28
Speaker 1: your party. Listened to this.
23:30
Speaker 3: They operate in an echo chamber, more concerned with the
23:35
Speaker 3: prejudices of their hardcore supporters than the experiences are working people.
23:40
Speaker 3: They've imbibed a mistaken analysis of how Tony Abott won
23:44
Speaker 3: in twenty thirteen that overlooks the role played by division
23:47
Speaker 3: within Labor in the demise of the last Labor government
23:51
Speaker 3: and on the transition to renewables. They remain fatally committed
23:56
Speaker 3: to denial and delay.
23:58
Speaker 1: Is he right on every respect or wrong in almost everything?
24:03
Speaker 4: Full credit to Paul Erickson.
24:05
Speaker 2: He wrote a devastating campaign and he won the election
24:07
Speaker 2: for Labor very comprehensively. But I really hope that the
24:11
Speaker 2: lesson that Labour Party takes out of this election is they.
24:13
Speaker 4: Were perfect, we were terrible.
24:15
Speaker 2: That nothing needs to change on their side, and they
24:17
Speaker 2: continue to govern in this term as I did in
24:19
Speaker 2: the last term. Because I have seen my own party
24:22
Speaker 2: misinterpret election victories to be an endorsement of everything we've
24:26
Speaker 2: done when it is anything. But sometimes elections are actually
24:30
Speaker 2: a repudiation of the opposition and not an endorsement of
24:32
Speaker 2: the government. But I hope Paul Erickson and the Anthony
24:35
Speaker 2: Aberanezi and all the Labor Party think that this was
24:37
Speaker 2: a big endorsement, because then they will overreach, then they
24:40
Speaker 2: will make mistakes, then they will be arrogant, and that's
24:42
Speaker 2: when we'll catch them.
24:45
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. Thank you very much for
24:47
Speaker 1: your time. James Patterson, and I hear that James is
24:52
Speaker 1: going to be the reports would be offered the defense spokesman.
24:56
Speaker 1: That'd be stupid. I mean that should be Andrew Hasty.
24:58
Speaker 1: I mean that bloke. He should be the leadership for
25:01
Speaker 1: Why isn't he? I don't get it. After they break,
25:03
Speaker 1: Anthony Abanese returns to Australia from his foreign jaunt on
25:07
Speaker 1: a big high the panel after this. How lucky is
25:18
Speaker 1: Anthony Albanesi? Four months ago the poll said he could
25:23
Speaker 1: lose the election, but after a fierce campaign smearing oppositionally
25:27
Speaker 1: to Peter Dutton, lying about his policies, lying about his character.
25:32
Speaker 1: Prime Minist Anthony Abanesi not only wins, he's got the
25:36
Speaker 1: biggest number of seats Labor as ever won. Plus the
25:39
Speaker 1: coalition has broken up in despair, and that was in easy. Meanwhile,
25:43
Speaker 1: had a brilliant time this past week visiting Indonesia, having
25:47
Speaker 1: a great time in Rome, yucking it up with the
25:50
Speaker 1: new pope, while interest rates here even went down again,
25:54
Speaker 1: No wonder he looked a little smug on returning to
25:57
Speaker 1: Australia today. Joining me is the panel Michael Coss, the
26:00
Speaker 1: former New South Wales Labor Treasurer. How how could they be?
26:02
Speaker 1: Former federal Labor MP. Maybe I'll say it again, Labour won,
26:07
Speaker 1: but all the old problems remain and Labour didn't go
26:10
Speaker 1: to the election with fixes for them, you know, for
26:13
Speaker 1: low productivity, for high debt, for the China threat, for
26:16
Speaker 1: a weak military, for the soaring house prices and so on.
26:19
Speaker 1: So what do you expect labor now to do? What
26:22
Speaker 1: do you want it to do?
26:25
Speaker 4: Which?
26:25
Speaker 13: Michael, look Andrew, I don't want to. I don't want
26:35
Speaker 13: labor to do anything.
26:36
Speaker 14: I think I want them to stop doing what they've
26:39
Speaker 14: been doing, that is, you know, taxing, spending, uh and
26:43
Speaker 14: wasteful spending at that and also you know, pandering to
26:47
Speaker 14: special interests, but we're not going to get that. The
26:49
Speaker 14: reality is, you know, pandering to special interests has actually
26:53
Speaker 14: worked for this government, and I expect to see more
26:55
Speaker 14: of that. Unfortunately, what we're going to see is, you know,
26:59
Speaker 14: more money on the climate doomsday cult. The only good
27:03
Speaker 14: thing about this term of government, I think for people
27:05
Speaker 14: that are skeptical about all this that'll be further down
27:08
Speaker 14: the track, maybe those blackouts and everything else that's been
27:11
Speaker 14: predicted because of the system instability will happen. But look,
27:15
Speaker 14: the real reality is Labour's in there for at least
27:17
Speaker 14: two terms. I can't see any change. I said to
27:20
Speaker 14: you last week, Andrew, I thought the best thing that
27:22
Speaker 14: the Nationals could do was leave the coalition and lo
27:25
Speaker 14: and behold they did. I wasn't advising him, but I
27:27
Speaker 14: still think it's the best thing because I think they
27:30
Speaker 14: need time the coalition to work out what they stand for.
27:34
Speaker 14: Knock off labor, which Susan Lee is going to be,
27:37
Speaker 14: is not going to deliver them an election win. They're
27:39
Speaker 14: better to have the challenges right now, the conflicts, and
27:43
Speaker 14: work out a winning strategy and that means sticking to
27:45
Speaker 14: your values, and unfortunately left of the Liberal Party is
27:50
Speaker 14: a pathetic machine and it's one that's got pathetic policies
27:53
Speaker 14: that labor will always trump.
27:56
Speaker 15: Andrew can I just say you're right, go ahead has
28:00
Speaker 15: been kissed in the art, as they say in Australia
28:02
Speaker 15: by a rainbow. I mean he's come a long way
28:05
Speaker 15: from the Steering Committee, which is what they used to
28:07
Speaker 15: call the socialist in New South Wales. Michael Costa, And
28:11
Speaker 15: how would you be if your Bill Shorten got more
28:14
Speaker 15: votes and got nothing. Here's a bloke with ninety four
28:19
Speaker 15: in federal Parliament on preferences from the Green Party and
28:24
Speaker 15: Clive Palmer and other the loonis So it's.
28:28
Speaker 1: But Michael Costra is right.
28:30
Speaker 15: Eventually, especially the energy policies are going to come up
28:33
Speaker 15: against the engineering and there's no political restraint on them now.
28:38
Speaker 15: But unless they have some balancing power that gas or
28:44
Speaker 15: keeping some of those coal fired power stations going, they're
28:47
Speaker 15: going to be in dead trouble with electricity blackouts.
28:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so interesting Michael Costra. I mean, labour
28:55
Speaker 1: winds a historic victory, but most of the talk is
28:58
Speaker 1: instead about the Liberals, and I think in part it
29:01
Speaker 1: is because Labor has no mandate for a recovery, just
29:04
Speaker 1: for massive handouts. I just wonder, then, how is it
29:10
Speaker 1: that they're going to do anything? I mean, they are
29:13
Speaker 1: they waiting for a crisis in order to then justify
29:16
Speaker 1: coming up with some policies to deal with it. What
29:19
Speaker 1: is going on? I mean, just take I know it
29:21
Speaker 1: wasn't central, but just take for instance, the fact that
29:26
Speaker 1: they are gutting our military at a time where there's
29:29
Speaker 1: international crises. What are they going to do? Just leave
29:32
Speaker 1: it this as weak as it is?
29:33
Speaker 14: For instance, well, Andrew, I think they are going to
29:38
Speaker 14: leave everything as it is, and why wouldn't they. You know,
29:43
Speaker 14: they're taking the view that their policy has won the
29:45
Speaker 14: election rather than the oppositions are incompetent campaign. And it
29:49
Speaker 14: comes back to that if you ever don't have an opposition,
29:51
Speaker 14: Like if you look at Labor, they've locked in their
29:53
Speaker 14: strategy for the future.
29:55
Speaker 11: You can see it.
29:55
Speaker 14: You know, the future Made in China fund, you know
29:59
Speaker 14: the doomsday cult roll out, and you know, paying off
30:04
Speaker 14: the unions to undermine our productivity. That's what it's going
30:06
Speaker 14: to be. There'll be virtue signaling on the global scale.
30:09
Speaker 14: There's penny One goes around attacking poor old Israel again
30:13
Speaker 14: and you know, I will just enjoy the limelight. He's
30:16
Speaker 14: never been a policy man, and Michael Derby knows this.
30:19
Speaker 14: He's just going to bask in the glory of it. Really,
30:22
Speaker 14: to me, the issue is can the opposition get itself
30:26
Speaker 14: act together in the next two terms. You know, they
30:28
Speaker 14: need to work out what their policies are. They need
30:31
Speaker 14: to lose a bit of skin in the fight. And
30:33
Speaker 14: you know, I don't know why everybody's running around, you know,
30:35
Speaker 14: a couple of weeks after an election lost saying you
30:37
Speaker 14: ought to get back together. They can't agree on anything,
30:40
Speaker 14: and I wouldn't want to be in coalition with the
30:43
Speaker 14: Liberal Party Left. I mean, you can see what their
30:45
Speaker 14: policies are going to be.
30:46
Speaker 1: They're going to be appalling.
30:47
Speaker 14: You can never win an election based on those policies,
30:50
Speaker 14: so you know you need.
30:51
Speaker 1: To Michael, I got that. But the point is the
30:56
Speaker 1: Nationals have only asked for four things in order to
30:59
Speaker 1: re form the coalition and then they can negotiate all
31:02
Speaker 1: that stuff internally on I don't get why the Liberals.
31:06
Speaker 1: I can't get why the Liberals can't decide those four
31:09
Speaker 1: things very quickly. I mean, I just thought, just enter
31:11
Speaker 1: prices also for nuclear. I bet you, Andrew Hasey, I
31:14
Speaker 1: bet my bottom dollar that is for nuclear. So now
31:17
Speaker 1: we're up to but five or six, and there aren't
31:20
Speaker 1: that many more to ask before coming to a decision. Now, Marke,
31:24
Speaker 1: Andrew could Danby, you know, Paul Erickson today at the
31:27
Speaker 1: National Press Club, you know, again joining this chorus that
31:31
Speaker 1: you've heard from labor generally across the board, and you
31:34
Speaker 1: heard from men in the media. The liberals have got
31:36
Speaker 1: to stop being far right. I can't identify any far
31:39
Speaker 1: right policies they had during the election, but anyway, got
31:42
Speaker 1: us up, stop being far right, come to the center,
31:45
Speaker 1: and drop the global warming, any skepticism not they were skeptical,
31:50
Speaker 1: and drop nuclear. I mean, is that really Why is
31:53
Speaker 1: Labor actually saying that? Do you think is it genuinely
31:56
Speaker 1: meant advice or is it political?
32:00
Speaker 15: They want to keep you, the opposition, away from issues
32:04
Speaker 15: where they might divide the public, but then actually win
32:08
Speaker 15: through if they pursued them. So it's actually the issue
32:13
Speaker 15: that's the most danger for them because they know the
32:15
Speaker 15: engineering will come up against the ideology eventually. And I
32:18
Speaker 15: thought you had I don't agree with Michael Costa this time.
32:21
Speaker 15: I think you've got a very canny observation about the Libs,
32:25
Speaker 15: and that just go to the free market. Mike, do
32:29
Speaker 15: what Paul Keating and Bob Hook said with the nuclear policy,
32:32
Speaker 15: just drop the bands. You don't have to subsidize them.
32:35
Speaker 15: But a balanced energy policy incorporating gas, some coal fired power, renewables,
32:41
Speaker 15: that snowy scheme if it ever gets going, and the
32:46
Speaker 15: market deciding on nuclear is the future. That's the engineering
32:50
Speaker 15: that's going to come up against blackouts. And if Chris
32:54
Speaker 15: Bowen is still involved with the energy and environment sectorial
32:57
Speaker 15: probably be saying at the next election what he said, doom,
33:00
Speaker 15: Bob Bill Shorten. You know, if you don't like us,
33:03
Speaker 15: don't vote for us.
33:06
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the only thing about the free market argument,
33:08
Speaker 1: of course, is that there are so many political pressure
33:12
Speaker 1: groups et cetera, et cetera, and the uncertainty about the future,
33:15
Speaker 1: and so much invested interest in keeping wind going that
33:19
Speaker 1: I do think you would need government intervention to get
33:22
Speaker 1: nuclear off the ground here, I really do. Michael Costler
33:25
Speaker 1: and Michael Danby, thank you very much to you both.
33:28
Speaker 1: After the break, we'll go back to that loving at
33:31
Speaker 1: the National Press Club today where Labour's election boss was
33:34
Speaker 1: preaching global warming. I'll do a fact check with Rondine
33:38
Speaker 1: after this. Look, when the Liberals kept beating labor in elections,
33:42
Speaker 1: I didn't go around saying, well, that's it. Every pro
33:45
Speaker 1: labor commentator in the country should shut up, Labor and
33:48
Speaker 1: Peace should listen to them and every issue that the
33:52
Speaker 1: Liberals ever mentioned argument over. But when Labor wins and
33:57
Speaker 1: it's oh, we've got to follow Labour's globe warning gospel,
34:00
Speaker 1: do not question the work, do not watch sky News.
34:03
Speaker 1: Oh it's terrible. Honestly, today at the National Press Club,
34:08
Speaker 1: this is so typical of this mood. There was this
34:11
Speaker 1: question from a journalist of the very hard left Guardian.
34:15
Speaker 1: Of course if you know it, to Labor campaign boss
34:18
Speaker 1: Paul Erickson.
34:20
Speaker 8: The science of climate is settled, but is the politics.
34:23
Speaker 14: Do you think that there's still duce for the right
34:25
Speaker 14: of politics in Australia to extract from the issue of climate.
34:30
Speaker 1: Oh, seriously, the science of climate change is settled. I
34:35
Speaker 1: mean that is a religious statement, it's not a scientific one.
34:39
Speaker 1: Just go to our top science organization CSIO, asks them.
34:42
Speaker 1: It warns in a discussion of global warming science. That
34:47
Speaker 1: science is rarely, if ever settled, it even is. Some
34:52
Speaker 1: of the many things that aren't settled the climate models,
34:55
Speaker 1: the consequences, predictions, the costs, and I can list many
34:58
Speaker 1: more things the climate experts once stated as a verse
35:01
Speaker 1: science that have since proved wrong, like oh wow, damns
35:06
Speaker 1: in a river, systems will run out of water, Tim Flannery,
35:09
Speaker 1: We'll get more cyclones, ol gore, Lots of Pacific islands
35:13
Speaker 1: are going to drown. Gore again. Our children won't know
35:17
Speaker 1: what snow is. Was the East Anglia University Climate Center
35:21
Speaker 1: whatever it was. Joining me is rond Netzer and Chief
35:24
Speaker 1: of the Spectator Autralia, presenter on Outsiders and Sky News
35:27
Speaker 1: every Sunday at nine am and now hosts of his
35:30
Speaker 1: own show on Fridays at seven pm. Rowan labor One,
35:36
Speaker 1: So shut up. The science of climate change is settled.
35:39
Speaker 1: There you go, Rowan.
35:42
Speaker 5: Well, if that's the message that Susan Lee and the
35:45
Speaker 5: Liberal Party take from the election, they're going to be very,
35:47
Speaker 5: very disappointed because the converse is what they should be
35:52
Speaker 5: focusing on. Labour's entire strategy, which you referred to earlier,
35:58
Speaker 5: is built around the premise of we have to get
36:01
Speaker 5: to net zero, and we have to do it by
36:04
Speaker 5: you know, a certain time. We've got to ramp up,
36:05
Speaker 5: and we've got to get it quicker. We've got to
36:06
Speaker 5: get there fast. We've got to increase our targets. All
36:09
Speaker 5: this sort of stuff. It does remind me of the
36:11
Speaker 5: Soviet Union when they used to have five year plans
36:14
Speaker 5: and then four year plans and eighty percent and they're
36:17
Speaker 5: ninety percent and they keep ramping it up and they're
36:19
Speaker 5: chasing these numbers. What will happen, almost certainly, is that
36:25
Speaker 5: the wheels will come off the entire net zero.
36:28
Speaker 11: It's all they're already coming off. I mean most of
36:30
Speaker 11: the wheel you know.
36:31
Speaker 5: If it's a four wheel thing, it's running on one
36:33
Speaker 5: or two wheels at the moment. Because most of the
36:35
Speaker 5: industrialized world has gone, no, we're not really interested in this.
36:38
Speaker 11: It's it's not going to happen.
36:40
Speaker 5: And on top of which, the I hate to say this, Andrew,
36:44
Speaker 5: but the older you get, the more skeptical you must
36:46
Speaker 5: have become about the climate change so called settled science,
36:50
Speaker 5: because as you were saying, one remembers what summers were like,
36:54
Speaker 5: one remembers what cyclones were like, one remembers what bushfires
36:58
Speaker 5: were like.
36:58
Speaker 11: One remembers what droughts were like, floods and rains and
37:01
Speaker 11: all the rest.
37:02
Speaker 5: Personally speaking, I have not seen anything even the existing
37:06
Speaker 5: the current floods which were told of the worst than
37:08
Speaker 5: five hundred.
37:08
Speaker 11: Years, or what they may well be up in that
37:10
Speaker 11: neck of the woods.
37:12
Speaker 5: I suspect there are worse floods in the past if
37:13
Speaker 5: you look at the actual geological records.
37:16
Speaker 11: But the point is it.
37:17
Speaker 5: All relies on this scare campaign and the use of
37:20
Speaker 5: today believing that they must do this net zero thing
37:23
Speaker 5: in order to save the planet from some dast to
37:27
Speaker 5: the future, even though the science themselves scientists. I wish
37:30
Speaker 5: you'd played that Tim Flannery clip because I love it
37:32
Speaker 5: so much. It's the greatest thing you ever do introducing there.
37:36
Speaker 1: You know, Rowan, I live to please your every wish.
37:42
Speaker 1: Let me play exactly what you just asked for. I
37:45
Speaker 1: think it was some eighteen years ago. I had to
37:48
Speaker 1: go to the very top of the ABC to get
37:50
Speaker 1: them to release this footage. They didn't want to give it.
37:52
Speaker 1: I got it. It's from Tim Flannery, who Labor actually
37:56
Speaker 1: appointed as our chief climate commissioner.
37:59
Speaker 5: Here is even the rain of falls isn't actually going
38:04
Speaker 5: to fill our dams and our river system, and.
38:07
Speaker 1: Of course not only do we see dams continually overflowing
38:10
Speaker 1: after that. Right now and unfortunately, tragically for some, we
38:14
Speaker 1: are once again seeing the very opposite many. You know,
38:18
Speaker 1: I think fifty thousand people now cut off floods around
38:22
Speaker 1: Tarre and New South Wales in particular, the biggest there
38:25
Speaker 1: that they have known. Incredible scenes, a lot of losses
38:29
Speaker 1: there and of course Roan, I know you share in this.
38:31
Speaker 1: Our hearts go out to them and thankfully our emergency
38:35
Speaker 1: services response seems extremely good. Now, Ron, some people are
38:39
Speaker 1: going to say, oh, that is global warming. But when
38:41
Speaker 1: you check the science in other nations, into Governmental Panel
38:45
Speaker 1: on Climate Change, which writes the Bible, it's said in
38:48
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one there is a low confidence in the
38:51
Speaker 1: emergence of heavy precipitation rain and pluvial and river flood
38:56
Speaker 1: frequency and observations. It means because of global warming, despite
38:59
Speaker 1: trends in the few regions. Rowan, there you go. I mean,
39:03
Speaker 1: even if you thought our emissions helped cause these floods,
39:06
Speaker 1: shouldn't you then at least be all four The Liberal's
39:09
Speaker 1: nuclear power.
39:10
Speaker 5: Plan absolutely and one of those things the IPC, the
39:14
Speaker 5: sixth they rich release one every few years, and the
39:16
Speaker 5: sixth one that's called the Assessment Report or something. Number
39:19
Speaker 5: six is couching all this language about likelihoods and possibilities
39:23
Speaker 5: and probabilities and could bees and might bees and maybes
39:27
Speaker 5: and so on. So even the IPCC themselves are very
39:30
Speaker 5: wary about making hard and fast predictions about future climate events.
39:36
Speaker 11: Certainly, the more extreme the so called prediction.
39:39
Speaker 5: Is, the much lower the likelihood is in the IPCC's
39:43
Speaker 5: own documents.
39:44
Speaker 11: But of course the media never never bother to report that.
39:48
Speaker 11: Of Course, if.
39:48
Speaker 5: You believe, if you seriously believe that we are facing
39:52
Speaker 5: a climate catastrophe because of carbon emissions, you must, unless
39:58
Speaker 5: you're an absolute doult, absolute hypocrites, you must embrace nuclear
40:04
Speaker 5: power because it is the only only emissions free energy.
40:09
Speaker 5: Renewables on emissions free, because you've got to build all
40:11
Speaker 5: the windmills and.
40:12
Speaker 11: Turbines, and that takes missions.
40:13
Speaker 5: Because the electricity generated by renewables is not powerful enough
40:17
Speaker 5: to build the material need of the materials needed for renewables, So.
40:22
Speaker 11: You must embrace nuclear I believe the man track.
40:28
Speaker 1: How can any liberal MP sitting there think Oh, I
40:31
Speaker 1: don't know if I can back nuclear power because I
40:34
Speaker 1: believe in what global warming? I mean, what, how ridiculous, Rondine,
40:38
Speaker 1: thank you for your time.
40:42
Speaker 11: Ah.
40:43
Speaker 1: Seriously, the liberals, I don't get it. I'm getting messages
40:46
Speaker 1: from liberals saying why didn't Susan Lee sort this out
40:50
Speaker 1: this week too? After the break blaming the victim on
40:54
Speaker 1: the ABC last night, calling up the critics of more
40:57
Speaker 1: redeeming to something that toicked me off. From the ABC
41:03
Speaker 1: last night, Former Victorian Liberal leader John Pursuito was on
41:06
Speaker 1: by the Way on Q and A on the ABC.
41:10
Speaker 1: He was last week ordered to pay fellow liberal imping
41:12
Speaker 1: More Deeming two point three million dollars in legal costs
41:15
Speaker 1: because it defamed her after she addressed the woman's rights
41:18
Speaker 1: rally that was crashed by the a Nazis. Stupidly, Pursudo
41:22
Speaker 1: accused Deeming on that evidence alone, of associating with neo Nazis,
41:25
Speaker 1: who refused repeatedly to apologize for that slur. Instead, he
41:30
Speaker 1: even tried to expel Deeming from the Liberal Party. Well.
41:34
Speaker 1: Pursudo's total costs, including his own legal fees, must now
41:37
Speaker 1: be around four million dollars, and Pursudo can't pay faces bankruptcy,
41:43
Speaker 1: which would then force him out of Parliament. But on
41:46
Speaker 1: Q and A last night, Dave Sharma of the Liberal
41:49
Speaker 1: Left said it was Deeming who had done the wrong thing.
41:53
Speaker 16: I'm not particularly comfortable with public figures and politicians and
41:57
Speaker 16: elect to representatives suing one another for defamation. I think
42:01
Speaker 16: it can have a chilling effect on political debate.
42:06
Speaker 1: Joining me gem and Tonnini, a Sky News regular and
42:09
Speaker 1: Liberal Senator Holly Hughes Jemma, Look, I agree suing people
42:13
Speaker 1: for what they say is drastic. I've never done it.
42:16
Speaker 1: It does have a chilling effect on free speech. But
42:19
Speaker 1: on the other side of that same coin, didn't Pursuito
42:22
Speaker 1: himself have a chilling effect on demons free speech by
42:26
Speaker 1: accusing her falsely of consorting with Nazis by going to
42:30
Speaker 1: a Women's right protest and even trying to expel it
42:34
Speaker 1: from the party. Did Dave Sharmer object to that?
42:38
Speaker 12: I know Dave personally and I've got a lot of
42:40
Speaker 12: time for him, but on this I respectful him and
42:43
Speaker 12: vehemently disagree. The only thing that John Persuto had to
42:47
Speaker 12: do was say sorry, I made a mistake in the
42:50
Speaker 12: heat of the moment. A lot was going on. Of course,
42:52
Speaker 12: she's not a Nazi. That's a ridiculous proposition because to
42:56
Speaker 12: say that is to damage her reputation. And then material
42:59
Speaker 12: is you point out the material next steps were expulsion
43:03
Speaker 12: from the Liberal Party as a result of the slur
43:07
Speaker 12: that she was a Nazi. All of these things, you
43:10
Speaker 12: can't take one from the other. So whether or not
43:13
Speaker 12: mister Pursuto was given poor advice and took it, or
43:16
Speaker 12: whether he wasn't advised and he clearly didn't have the whatever,
43:21
Speaker 12: it was required common sense to just say this is
43:23
Speaker 12: a massive distraction, it's going to blow up in our face.
43:26
Speaker 12: We're not going to do this. We're going to sort
43:28
Speaker 12: it out behind closed doors. Only he knows why he
43:31
Speaker 12: took that path of action. But in a democracy, you
43:34
Speaker 12: are not free of consequences. And if anything, like you
43:37
Speaker 12: and I share on a unity ticket, Andrew, we want
43:40
Speaker 12: the Liberal Party to shape up and give us an alternative.
43:43
Speaker 12: And sometimes pain can be a great motivator. Maybe it
43:45
Speaker 12: will be a great motivator here.
43:49
Speaker 1: I'm a huge what do you make of all that?
43:51
Speaker 17: I just I'm with Jemma so strongly on this and
43:55
Speaker 17: the fact that John Persudo doubled down and that he
43:57
Speaker 17: continued this ridiculous going on and on and on and
44:02
Speaker 17: the whole you know, he just kept doubling down every
44:06
Speaker 17: time Moira said that it was unacceptable with him calling
44:10
Speaker 17: her a Nazi, to the point where it could see
44:13
Speaker 17: him exiting parliament. I'm not quite sure that's a bad thing,
44:17
Speaker 17: because if someone in the Victorian Parliament thinks standing by
44:21
Speaker 17: a Nazi slur and taking it all the way through
44:24
Speaker 17: that court case while the Center Allen and previous Dan
44:28
Speaker 17: Andrews government are destroying that stage, I don't think they've
44:32
Speaker 17: got any right to sit in parliament. Their job is
44:35
Speaker 17: to serve Victorians, not themselves, not their factional interests, not
44:39
Speaker 17: their personality differences, whatever was going on there. And thankfully
44:44
Speaker 17: I don't spend much time with the Victorian Liberal Party
44:46
Speaker 17: or state parliamentary team. It's a couple of the ones,
44:48
Speaker 17: but don't really know very many of them well at all.
44:52
Speaker 17: But it's been pretty less than impressive, and if we
44:55
Speaker 17: get rid of one of the less than impressive people,
44:58
Speaker 17: then hopefully we can put someone in who's actually focused
45:01
Speaker 17: on fighting this dreadful labor Victorian state government and start
45:04
Speaker 17: standing up for the people of Victoria rather than themselves.
45:10
Speaker 1: Well, after the budget the Labor government put out yesterday,
45:13
Speaker 1: it's playing there's a crying need for a strong opposition
45:19
Speaker 1: and I think Brad Batner is doing a pretty good job.
45:22
Speaker 1: Since Jemma this is without notice, since my interview with
45:28
Speaker 1: James Patterson about Susan Lee. Two messages, one from a
45:34
Speaker 1: senior LIB saying, yes, Susan Lee should have called the meeting,
45:39
Speaker 1: say on Monday, this is so important on this one
45:42
Speaker 1: issue nuclear and get that sworded in the party quick smart.
45:47
Speaker 1: Don't know why she didn't. Maybe she doesn't want an agreement.
45:52
Speaker 1: And from another saying that in fact, they believe that
45:56
Speaker 1: I have no evidence for this right, I'm just saying
45:58
Speaker 1: what they tell me. I don't know that it's true.
46:00
Speaker 1: I've got evidence saying that they believe that Susan Lee
46:03
Speaker 1: is obligated to powerbroker Michael Photius from New South Wales
46:09
Speaker 1: that if she's the leader, they've got to go and
46:12
Speaker 1: dump the nuclear project, then go all in on renewables
46:16
Speaker 1: and she doesn't want this fixed. What do you make
46:18
Speaker 1: of all this?
46:19
Speaker 12: I tell you what I make of it. I tell
46:21
Speaker 12: you that I don't care and Australian voters don't care.
46:24
Speaker 12: Liberal voters don't care about Michael Photis. I don't want
46:27
Speaker 12: to hear that man's name again in the context of
46:28
Speaker 12: the Liberal Party now.
46:29
Speaker 10: Frankly, that's what I say.
46:31
Speaker 12: It doesn't matter and until unless, and until the Liberal
46:34
Speaker 12: Party gets it into their heads that voters don't trust them.
46:37
Speaker 12: The Labor Party has their process right, but they are
46:39
Speaker 12: tidier than we are. They are more disciplined than we are.
46:42
Speaker 12: We're like a bunch of you know, spoil university frat kids.
46:45
Speaker 12: You can't sort our shit out, pardon my language.
46:47
Speaker 8: So if people.
46:48
Speaker 12: Want to continue to wreckon whatever within the Liberal Party
46:51
Speaker 12: will be in this limbo forever. In a day. Susan
46:54
Speaker 12: Lee Lee whatever. Excuse me, I'm not too familiar with
46:57
Speaker 12: how she pronounces their surname, Susan Lee. She shares an
47:00
Speaker 12: obligation to the voters of Australia who want someone to
47:03
Speaker 12: put their vote. I don't know if she's behold until powerbroker. Frankly,
47:06
Speaker 12: don't care. I want good policy. I want less infighting.
47:10
Speaker 12: I don't give a rats backside about factional infighting. And
47:14
Speaker 12: if those people in the back rooms and doing their
47:17
Speaker 12: dirty deals and their handshakes. They think they're so important.
47:19
Speaker 12: Put your proverbial on the block and get out from
47:21
Speaker 12: the shadows and actually put it, you know, put your
47:25
Speaker 12: old feller on the blog. And I'm trying to keep
47:27
Speaker 12: my language clean because I know this is a family.
47:29
Speaker 1: Show, Holly, you actually know very very personally the actions
47:36
Speaker 1: do matter. But what do you think I mean this
47:39
Speaker 1: should have been sorted out this week when everyone's going
47:42
Speaker 1: on say it's so easy.
47:46
Speaker 17: Okay, First off, nuclear It's not necessarily whether you support
47:49
Speaker 17: nuclear or not. It's about whether it's a nationalized program,
47:52
Speaker 17: which was what the policy was, versus something with some
47:55
Speaker 17: market intervention or market based. There are three years till
47:59
Speaker 17: the next election, and we do not need to have
48:01
Speaker 17: our policy documents written by the end of this week.
48:04
Speaker 17: It's insane and quite frankly, Andrew, those people who are
48:07
Speaker 17: texting you, who claim to be senior liberals, claiming to
48:10
Speaker 17: have all this inside information, will stop hiding behind a
48:14
Speaker 17: bloody text message, come out and say it on camera.
48:18
Speaker 17: I am sick of these background boys. And I'm going
48:20
Speaker 17: to say it is mostly the boys that will not
48:23
Speaker 17: put their themselves out there, love to send sneaky text
48:27
Speaker 17: messages backgrounding undermining.
48:29
Speaker 4: Yes, grow a.
48:31
Speaker 17: Pair and get out there and say it on.
48:33
Speaker 12: I come out and.
48:36
Speaker 5: I will say it on.
48:43
Speaker 1: Holly. I've got to go. Great to see you again,
48:46
Speaker 1: Holly Hughes Gem and to thank you very much for
48:48
Speaker 1: you Earth. That's it for me, Caleb on next, thank you,
48:51
Speaker 1: goodnighte