Latest / Dispatched & Dysfunctional / The Hard Things Are the Journey — Brad Wolfe
Transcript
- Chris: Alright, welcome back to Dispatch Dysfunctional. This one's a little bit different for me. ⁓ today's guest is Brad Wolfe. So Brad, before we get into anything, ⁓ before we get into reimagine your music, your events, your titles, you know, all the published internet good stuff. ⁓ who are you really? You know, who are you at home as a husband and a father? ⁓ who are you as a friend and what made this conversation feel worse saying yes to? Brad Wolfe: Thanks so much. No, that's that's such a great question, Chris. It's so good to meet you. you know, I I mean I feel like all the all the parts of my life bleed together. I I really believe in in in authenticity. So I I I I'm pretty raw and loving. That's I guess how how I I always see it. I have a I have an eight-month-old daughter, my first daughter, and I have my my my my wife and my my parents and my friends and I think I you know, I do a lot of work around loss and grief and ⁓ all of it has really shown me and taught me how important it is to be present and and ⁓ to not wait to to enjoy the the moment and share love. So I feel like I'm just there for it. Like I I love holding my my baby. I love singing to my baby. I love making music. I love I love sharing that with, you know, all the people around me and and ⁓ and and try not to sweat the small stuff because that stuff d just d doesn't matter as much as ⁓ remembering that there's part of us that's all the same. Chris: I think that's a big part right there, like you just said, is the not sweating the small stuff. I think a lot of us even you know, i i I'm sure you've worked with a lot of first responders. ⁓ I think a lot of us do sweat a lot of the small stuff, even though it feels big to us it's not. ⁓ I mean I I know you're doing a lot of work with people on that. ⁓ correct me if I'm wrong, but we sometimes feel as something small is a lot heavier. Brad Wolfe: I mean it's so it's so hard to remember what matters. I mean it's like it's like when when I when I got I I I my daughter just got sick for the first time and gave me the worst the like the worst cold that knocked me totally out of the box and and you know I f I I forgot I forgot in that time y you know to exercise, for example. Now I'm exercising again finally like, ⁓ my gosh, I c Chris: I miss those days. Brad Wolfe: I can't believe how good it feels to exercise. Like, like it's so easy to forget. ⁓ we swear off all kinds of things, and then when we get healthy, you know, it's like we just forget how much we we cared about our health when we didn't feel well. ⁓ or or after a a loss, ⁓ after something bigger happens, it really crystallizes for us what matters, but then somehow. As life progresses, the small stuff just creeps in. ⁓ and so it's it's a it's more of like a practice, I would say, to to to rem to to keep talking to yourself ⁓ about the small stuff and keep trying to remember in those hard moments, you know, that they that those small things really don't matter. And then but you know, it's not easy. Chris: Right. A hundred percent. And and you know, that kind of goes to what I got written right here is you kind of you you wrote something on the form. ⁓ you said life's most difficult experiences aren't interruptions to the journey. They are the journey. And that that's huge right there to me because you're right. And like you said, the small things, you know even the small things in life are be part of our journeys. They they kind of sometimes bring us down, but Without the small things we wouldn't have the big things, in my opinion. Brad Wolfe: I mean, I think it's so connected. You know, all the moments in my life that have and that's the work that I'm trying to do really is help people see the connection between the lows and the highs, to see that the that the pain isn't something separate. ⁓ from you know, I have a I have a colleague named Jeannie and she's going through ovarian cancer right now. And she said she said, in life it seems like all these like this diagnosis she had that it you would think that it It just kind of came out of the blue. But what if we're living in the blue all the time? You know, a diagnosis, a breakup, ⁓ a a a a challenge. They're all gonna be they're all part of our lives, kind of ear i they're inescapable part of the human experience, but we always treat them like, ⁓ my gosh, I can't believe this happened. Yet it's it you know, pain happens for all of us. And so it's more like how do we how do we respond? ⁓ how do we respond to it? I mean, you know, I I lost somebody ⁓ my dear friend Sarah and that was one of the worst parts of my life. But now I I I have all these songs that were inspired by her and ⁓ and I'm and I'm out Talking to someone like you because of because of because of Sarah. And it's like obviously painful, but there's so much beauty in in the emergence of that relationship that's that's still connected to the the the deepest pain. And so I don't know, seeing s n understanding that and knowing that for myself. Just makes life, I guess, richer. Chris: That that makes sense. And I I can't remember who I who told me this at one point, but ⁓ they told me that, you know, without pain we would always feel numb. And that was that hit me hard that day, he told me that. As one of my partners on the ambulance and he he told me that. He's like, Hey look, you did everything you could. You you're gonna feel pain about it, you're gonna feel grief about it. But without those, how are you how do you How do you know what you're supposed to feel? Brad Wolfe: that's I I mean I have the same cognition. It's like if you don't if you're not upset or you're not grieving something like how were you supposed to feel? I mean I mean it makes it we should feel those emotions. Otherwise how are we really living? So I I I I think that's a really can you say it again? Chris: So without without pain, you know, how would we know what to feel? We would feel numb w without the pain that we feel every day. and that's how he told me is we on this call that we were on, we lost a pediatric patient and he was telling me you're gonna feel the pain, you're gonna feel the grief. He's like, But if you didn't, you'd always feel numb because without that pain, without that grief, you wouldn't have feeling. You wouldn't know what happiness is, you wouldn't know what Pride is 'cause you have to feel one to fill the other. Brad Wolfe: Yeah, and I think that's I think that's part of the big challenge that we have as a as a as a culture when we turn on the television and we have our own stuff going on in our own lives, and then you you see how much pain exists everywhere and it can just be overwhelming. And it's like, ⁓ I don't want to. I don't wanna I don't wanna feel these I don't wanna feel the pain. And so we just like go numb or we nummify ourselves in in in some other way, and it's like No. How do we stay open to to feeling that to feeling all those feelings? And that that that that also, you know, kind of sitting with our feelings. I have to say, you know, being married to your point, it's like if my wife is upset. you know, how do I just how can I how do I just sit with it and and and be okay when she's in her pain, you know, I mean or or just like and vice versa. It's like it takes a lot of practice and I think, ⁓ and you know, as a as a first responder, I know that that's a that's that's a huge that's a huge part of of it is how do you how do you sit with someone else's pain and not run, not numb, not not divert yourself. Chris: Right. And our field is a little bit challenging on that sometimes, but ⁓ you know, we have people like you that help us. We have there's other people that we can count on, and that's the point of this podcast in the end, is to show everybody, you know, that there is help out there. There is people that understand us that aren't truly in this field with us. Brad Wolfe: Yeah, because because it takes because how can't if if you were as open if you f if you felt the pain as deeply as as a family member. You know, if you felt it that deeply and you were in that much grief, how could you how could you you wouldn't be able to do the work? And so it's a really it's a really interesting balance of how to stay open but at the and and have it, you know, not to not be numb but not also have it over be overwhelming. Chris: It's very fine line to walk, but yes. ⁓ Brad Wolfe: Yeah. It is a it is a fine line. And that's that's that's what that's the that's why having a support system, like you're saying, and having relationships and people you can talk to and having that perspective, I feel like, is so key. ⁓ otherwise, you know, either one of those two things can happen. So that fine line, you know, I appre I appreciate what you're doing because I feel like that's that's the line that we all need to learn how to walk. Chris: I agree. And you know, it kind of that brings me to my next point I have is you described your grief when you lost people when you were younger. ⁓ you described your grief as almost unbearable. So who were they and and why did losing them ⁓ cause you so much pain from you know the purpose of having them? Brad Wolfe: I mean I think I mean I mentioned I mentioned Sarah and and she and she was someone I had just I had just confided my love for her. And then two weeks later she was diagnosed with with with ⁓ this rare form of pediatric cancer. And so for the next two years I would I I I played music by her bedside and sat with her and and didn't know how to show up for somebody in in in pain because I had never been taught. Chris: Yes, sir. Brad Wolfe: you know, how to how to grieve or how to, you know, I I death was very scary to me. and it's still scary to me, but I thank God had a guitar and and found myself able to turn toward the guitar and and write music with and for her, and for the other people in the room. And ⁓ I think through that just ⁓ my connection with her and with myself and with everything just got so much deeper. and so it's just a a lot when when it when it you know, when you l when you lose somebody. at the same time, I think the word almost is is really im important because it's like I'm not broken. I mean I think just like Going through those experiences and seeing that love can persist gives me a lot of hope. you know that and I've now studied grief and and learned that it's true that you can have ongoing relationships with people that aren't here, and those relationships can still change and evolve. And if you if you ⁓ grieve with kindness, ⁓ Toward yourself and toward others. those relationships with everyone around you just get get richer. And so that's the place that I find myself in now. And I'm I'm I'm just, you know, in awe of the journey. Chris: That's very well said. That that that's amazing right there. And you actually made me think of something when you said that. So, you know, we all have our outlets for our own grief. We all have our outlets for depression. ⁓ i we have outlets for everything really. But as you were saying, you know, you brought the guitar in for her and her family. Do you think that your outlet helped create a better bond? in the end to show her that you were trying to grieve her in your own way a at the same time. Brad Wolfe: I mean, that is become what you just said is the is really the work of my my the last 20 years for me and what I'm really focused on now is how do we help outlets aren't inherently good. You know, many outlets create so much more suffering and so much more pain. And and even in the name of love, we we we we we we can do things to hurt one another. Chris: Right. Brad Wolfe: ⁓ Chris: Say that again right there. Say that one right there again. Brad Wolfe: even even in the name of love we we can hurt one another and ourselves and and and that's that's why i feel like this word kindness like kind grief i think it's so important because it's not about love it's about kindness and for me music is one vehicle where for me There was like a gentleness and a kindness that I was playing music for her, and there's something kind about about that. There's all kinds of outlets. ⁓ w if we think about the outlets that that produce more kindness ⁓ for ourselves, whether that's whether that's ⁓ apologizing to somebody could be an outlet. You know, I mean, ⁓ any action that we take, it could be an act of service, of volunteering, but but just gently where there's like kindness involved. ⁓ you know service all all types of forms of creativity even going to therapy could be could be a kind act for oneself but something that benefits other people also benefits yourself and so I felt like that's what I saw in f you know playing music for Sarah didn't just help her physical symptoms it also is to your point Help mend my own heart. And so, like, what other avenues are there in life that have that same property as like helping somebody and also and also healing yourself that us and our communities are inner intersecting. And if we grieve in that way, because we're all in pain, then instead of the world crumbling, instead of our relationships crumbling, it all kind of like. rises together. Chris: I love that theory. That's that's actually awesome. and you know, I've always heard it from a bunch of musician buddies of mine that music heals the soul. Music can heal things that medicine can never heal. And you kinda prove that point right there in the end as well. You know? it's it's amazing that the kindness, like you said, can astronomically help someone in pain. Brad Wolfe: I mean, it's so interesting, you know, now that I have this daughter and and I'm and I'm play music for her, and I see her reaction before any words to music. And it's it's it's crazy how it affects her body. You can just see it in her body, her whole body's moving to the music. And when I get to a chorus, it goes in overdrive. Last night then I was walking, there was a little street festival and they had one of these like silent discos. I saw people ⁓ it's like they're wearing headphones and like dancing, and I just was noticing people's bodies like moving and they looked it was so awkward, right? Because you can't hear the music and you just see people's bodies ⁓ kind of gyrating around and then it it looked just like my daughter. You you know, and it's like, wow. Wow, look at the way that music is is is we have this Chris: Okay. ⁓ Brad Wolfe: thing in us that wants us to move awkwardly in the in these in these in these ways. And and then you think about the person that made the music, the creation of the music itself. And and especially if that music meant something, you know, if there were emotions that were part of that music that were that were poured into it that that then are are moving someone else's body. And that's like just such a deep That's such a deep idea. Like I write these songs about my daughter and it's like so pressus to think that somehow that's what's That's where the music came from and that's what's moving her body, whether it's about how much I love her or about her about her her her silly her silly face and even her bowels. Right. Playing some funny music for her and it and it's just like so so awesome that connection. Chris: And you know, it it it's it it's interesting to me on that too is I think if you really look at it, no one doesn't listen to music. You know, everybody in the world listens to some kind of music. And a lot of people when they find people that listen to what they listen to, they all join fri they become friends, they become, you know, i it it joins people together and that's that's awesome that you're doing that and and building a future for your daughter that way and and honoring Sarah that way as well. That that's that's quite amazing. Brad Wolfe: I mean, thank you so much. I mean, it it feels it just say it, it feels really good, those parts of my life. And and I and I, you know, what reimagines work is is to try to help everyone find their own music ⁓ through through the hard parts of life because it doesn't have to be just the you know, playing music, even just listening to music or singing in the shower, that's music. But there's also service. There's actual, there's just you know, taking time to intentionally connect to somebody else. And share your story. I mean, you know, hearing each other's stories is is can actually have the same effect. ⁓ just slowing down, being present, being intentional with our time and channeling something hard into something loving in a new form is part of that that that ⁓ that whole practice. Chris: Yeah. So, you know, why why do you think it is that we treat the painful sessions of life like it's just a it's temporarily gone wrong? What do you think that is? Sorry, I had a that just popped my head. Brad Wolfe: No, it's great it's a great question. I mean, I think because we it takes a different worldview to see To embrace pain as part of life. The natural instinct in our culture is just to push it away. ⁓ so to say it's just, it's just a blip, it's just a blip is so much initially maybe psychologically easier for us. But the fact is, if we think we're all gonna die, you know, we're all gonna, we all suffer. So it's like the holding that. And integrating that is without without our culture or like education honestly around it. No one teaches you as you grow up and you go to school, you learn math, but no one teaches you how to say goodbye. I mean, I mean, there's a lot of stuff that's part of life that no one tells us how that's why we all have these awkward goodbyes, because everyone's like no no one has skills around these things. ⁓ And and it's kind of and maybe part of those skills are like spiritual skills, perhaps that maybe used to be more in the spiritual realm, but now our world is so complex and crazy that that and and fast and there and the that we need as a you know, you can see there's a lot of bad stuff happening. And it's like, why? And I I think part of it is because if we're just trying to push away the pain and we don't know how to respond to it, we're likely to Have that pain, you know, come out in ways that hurt one another. ⁓ and and what we or we go numb and then we're not part of a solution. So so I I think I don't I think it's natural to to want this pain, these things to be to just be blips in short term. But there is when you let it in and you see it in the construct and you see that the pain actually connects. to the good parts and you can and you really can learn that and see that those connections, then you're able to like say, okay, well, pain is a okay, it is part of life. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna have some really hard things. Like my my you know, I don't know what's gonna happen between me and my daughter and my wife and and and the different kind of struggles that we're all gonna go through as a family and and sicknesses and and and sh health challenges and all kinds of other parts of life that are gonna happen between between just us. And that's ⁓ you know, kind of scary to think about, but but I know I know that that's that's coming. Chris: Yeah. And that's that's part of being resilient in my opinion too, i is you know, we have to be resilient to be humans. and I've I've s read it somewhere c again, can't remember where I've read it from. ⁓ but I've read, you know, resiliency is you have to be tough. I I I don't believe that's a hundred percent true. You know, we all have flaws. We can all sit and cry. Sometimes that helps. ⁓ And w how how do you feel about that part? Brad Wolfe: I mean, I totally agree with you. I think I think it's like the definition of resilience, I think in our culture is a little weird. because because you know, yeah, it's like and there's a lot of now more and more research about this too, that if you're just resilient thinking, ⁓ I'm gonna be tough and not feel anything and just let it bounce off me like Teflon or something, that that that that's resilience. Chris: That's true. Brad Wolfe: But what pe what research has shown anyway, one of the greatest predictors of whether or not somebody is gonna grow positively from pain is whether or not they're they're more open. like that they're open to new possibilities. The more fixed we are, the more kind of tight we are. The less we're going to be able to let that pain move us to somewhere new that that that that is a new possibility. If we just try to cling to what was and what is, that's where we get in big problems because you can never, we're always evolving and growing. We can't go back. We can't go back to exactly what it is. There's something new that happened to us, and we have to find ways to have that part of our life trying to get back. It's just a fool's errand because you can try forever, but you can never go back because even that trying is new. So it's like better to better to see where, you know, what's possible. What's possible now, ⁓ in spite of the pain, or even maybe because of the pain. It's like I might be, you know, when someone's aging and getting older and they're losing functions. It's like if you we're all we all experience that kind of loss. ⁓ or not you know or if we're l if we're privileged enough to l to to to grow into old age w we lose you know function and and it's like we don't take the time a to like mourn ⁓ man that's an actual loss we just like ⁓ my you know we just don't talk to we we just pretend like nothing happened but there's parts of ourselves that are are are are are getting lost and to mourn those parts but also then in mourning it to think about now what dreams, you know, what what matters most to me, what's most precious to me now, what's possible now. And there's still dreams for ourselves that we can move toward. So I don't that's a long winded answer to to to your question that I don't even remember what it was, but but it felt it feels like it all connects. Chris: It does. And and that kind of I'm you know so we talked earlier, you know, there's all kinds of grief. Divorce, ⁓ jobs, isolation really. what times what types of grief do you think aren't really recognized as grief? Brad Wolfe: No. I think I think one of the major ones that that we don't recognize, ⁓ because obviously grief is mostly associated with death loss, right? Like, like our the word grief, when people think of grief, they think of death and they think of physical death. ⁓ you know, but grief is all around us. If we're if we're set if we're sensitive and open to to things, it's like there's constantly losses. you know, even I mean it's as my daughter as my daughter grows up and she changes form, it's like I get sad that I I she's no longer making the same sounds that she was making. You know, I mean part of her is getting is is changing, getting lost. ⁓ and all these changes that we go through, there's like a grief associated with with change, with any change. ⁓ when you move to when you move to a new place. ⁓ When when a job ends, when a when some when you have to say goodbye to somebody, you know, there's just grief is around us all the time. one type of grief though that I think is under specifically under understood or appreciated is this idea of like anticipatory grief. ⁓ the idea that you know, if you if you if I think of you know, you think about someone you care about. Like my parents are aging, and they're gonna, you know, they're gonna obviously die at some point. And and not accepting pushing that away is part of the grief or or not recognizing that there's some you know not allowing myself to to to feel that ⁓ that we all are carrying this around with not whether it's our parents or whether it's with our you know ourselves that we're all gonna die that there's an existential Kind of like I feelings we have that people walk around with that are hard to talk about. ⁓ because no one wants to talk about that stuff. And keeping it in can kind of like weigh on you, especially when you have a lot of other things going on. If you're like a caregiver, you know, there there's this anticipation toward toward Toward death that is grief in advance. And we don't have to wait till after someone dies to tend to our grief. If we start tending to it now and treating it with kindness and interacting with it, it can help us metabolize, at least I believe, those losses that do happen. And it can change the way that we act now. To make life better today. And it might even change the way that those losses happen. And and or or or or prolong things, you know, that that that otherwise wouldn't be there in certain ways. I mean, I think about just the if you think about anticipatory grief and you think about, ⁓ my gosh, is the world gonna be around? Is like, is it's like what's gonna happen? You know, ⁓ my gosh, it's so scary. It's like, well, if we that's a lot to hold thinking about what if what if all this. didn't exist. It's like, well, knowing that, how do I wanna then how do I wanna live thinking that that might be a reality? It's like what chain what behaviors might I engage in? How might I embrace life differently if I actually took time to think that we're all gonna die? Chris: Yeah, that's that's actually a very deep perspective there. ⁓ Brad Wolfe: That's why it's like it's like, yeah, but we're all s we're all actually a little, you know, some piece of maybe some people never think about this, but I think all of us kind of have these thoughts sometimes. So it's like, whoa, what do we do with that? Chris: Very true. So one final question for you. ⁓ so picture the people we've been talking about the whole episode. ⁓ they're awake at two a.m. because their mind won't let them rest. Maybe they've recently lost somebody they love. ⁓ maybe they're just caring for a parent, or maybe a marriage ended, ⁓ health de changed, job changed. Maybe they're still showing up, still doing what everyone expects them to do, and still being dependable, like most res responders do. ⁓ but In the end, privately they're feeling disconnected from the life they thought they've had. ⁓ they're pretty much grieving their own life that they've lost. You know, everybody thinks everyone's holding together when that happens. ⁓ they are the caring, the grief, the regret and uncertainty that no one else can see. So what do they need to hear from you t today or tonight when they listen to this? Brad Wolfe: ⁓ man, I think you're I think they need to hear you and and and see like, you know, that we're not just naming what you said. We're not alone in that. Everyone experiences that feeling. Sadly, in our culture, we don't know how to talk about it. But so just because we don't know how to talk about it doesn't mean that we're alone. That that that you know, that is sadly, that is part of life. It and that's okay. And so it's okay to be sad, and it's okay to be. Kind to yourself and gentle and to see how much you're carrying and to and to know that. There is a lot of pain, but y we still have a choice about ultimately how we respond in terms of where we direct that painful energy. And if you can keep Taking small, tiny, sweet steps towards kindness, towards yourself and towards others through that pain, it gets better. Chris: Yes, sir. And everyone just remember as well as all of us feel pain. ⁓ we all have grief, we all have pain. But the same gentleman that told me that before I was contemplating suicide and he told me one thing. He said pain is only temporary. ⁓ he said it may be temporary for years, months, but it's only temporary. He's like, You're gonna do a permanent fix to a temporary problem. And that's something I want to let everybody know is you're never never let your grief win. Brad Wolfe: Amen. Honestly, and one thing I'll say about that, and this is so I find this really helpful in those moments for myself. And I I'm so grateful for your friend, first of all, because I'm I love talking to you. ⁓ like if you when you're in pain, if you just sit there and you you close your eyes and you say, I'm in pain, I'm in pain, and try to just see that the pain is there constantly, there will be a moment in your day. Chris: ⁓ thank you. Brad Wolfe: Where that pain's not there, where something where even in even in a short span of hours, you can't even you can't even stay in constant pain for every second. There's something else that comes in. Even when you're like, I'm in pain. Yes, you are in pain, but even when you try. There's some blip of something else that comes in. And if you kind of like think about that on a macro scale, that like even when we try our hardest to be in pain, there's some signs that there is something else. And I don't know, that helps that helps me. And sometimes when I'm in pain, I'm like, I'm gonna just try to sit and just be in my pain as much as I can. And and and then I get surprised when I'm like, ⁓ actually, there is this one little moment. when I wasn't in that same when when somehow I was distracted from that pain, when something else got in the way of that pain. And and then I'm like, wow. Then I then it helps me remember, wow, if that one little moment is there, how do I just like s start noticing more of those moments and seeing if I can expand those moments. And then ultimately it gives me some hope. Chris: Very true. if people will learn more about you, ⁓ reimagine, find your mu your music, ⁓ Brad Wolf and the Moon, ⁓ how can they find that information? Brad Wolfe: Sure. So you can check out this music that's related to all these these themes ⁓ at Brad Wolf, B-R-A-D-W-O-L-F-E dot com, Bradwolf.com. And then we invite anyone to be part of this community that we have at let's reimagine.org. ⁓ let's reimagine.org, we we host thousands of free events online for people to show up in all kinds of different ways. And connect with other people about whatever you're going through. And they're they're also semi uplifting, I have to say. Like people leave feeling more more connected and more alive, even when the events kind of touch on some of these hard themes. ⁓ so I I really recommend ⁓ showing up. You don't even have to participate. You can just show up and and ⁓ it helps you know that you're not alone. You meet some people maybe if you're interested and And also ⁓ learn some things, but there's rituals, there's things that kind of keep there's music, there's different types of activities ⁓ that are that you can find in these these. We've hosted 5,000 events now. and and and I I think ⁓ just invite you to peruse that that event calendar. And we're also building a new social media tool. This is what's so exciting where we people are like more authentic and honest about what's happening in their life and and we're not judging each other. We're just ⁓ kind of sitting with what is and everyone's on their own journey toward figuring out how to channel these hard parts of life into something a little bit kinder. ⁓ and so that's something you can find as well at let's reimagine.org. Chris: That's cool. ⁓ yeah, Brad, thank you for trusting me with this conversation. this has been dispatched and dysfunctional. You know the hardest parts of life are not always interruptions. ⁓ sometimes they are the journey, as you said. ⁓ grief isn't always a funeral and sometimes it's a relationship. ⁓ your health, your confidence, your identity, the future you thought you were gonna have. Sometimes things can't be fixed. Remember that. and on my ending note, I know people getting tired of hearing this, but if you wanna support me to go to critical care clo course, please hit me up on the website. ⁓ all my funding fell through. So how y'all have a good day. Brad Wolfe: We gotta support you, Chris. You you you this is a really special show and I appreciate you. Chris: Thank ya. Go ahead, stop.