Latest / Psyched For Sanity / Episode 38 - The Psychology of Friendship (Part 1)

Transcript

Episode 38 - The Psychology of Friendship (Part 1) · Psyched For Sanity

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Psych for Sanity.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm one of your hosts, Dr.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Brendel Doss.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a licensed psychologist specializing in forensic psychology, geriatrics, trauma treatment, and child psychology.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Dr.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Tara McKelvey Parker.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also a licensed clinical psychologist working in private practice.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I specialize in assessing and treating complex trauma and attachment wounds from childhood.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have not already noticed, we have a special guest today.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, go ahead and introduce yourself.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Caroline Brenner.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in assessment adult and child psychology.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you're here.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I am.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're doing a friendship episode today.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it turns out we're friends.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we're all friends.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see at the end of the episode.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: We started off pretty good.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're gonna be okay.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie though, when I was doing my intro and both of you were staring at me, I'm like, oh my god, this feels so much more intense than just when Tara stared at me.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize I had so much.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, you don't have the dynamics.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's no, it was just no, the dynamics for sure.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is so interesting to me.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: The addition of Dr.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Brenner.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do like a deep bar.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna have to do it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: That would actually be kind of cool.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: We can like analyze our episodes.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: See, yes.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's when you get after so many episodes.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can watch your old stuff and be like, oh my God, remember the first episode?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: That was crazy.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like that.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, fun fact.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let's hear it.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we do fun facts sometimes.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: We do fun facts on the shirt sometimes.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've noticed.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they're not that fun.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: We'll do our fun facts.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes life's not that fun.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's okay.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you're so wise.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's very wise.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: She just brings some realness.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Wise and you have good reality testing.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is strength.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate that.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: All right, what do we got?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So my fun fact is something that I have no shame over.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't think this will be a surprise to you, because I think I mentioned this.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know this.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have I have I know you know this part.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have children.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know that?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: You met them?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Familiar with them?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Many times.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and sometimes when you watch kids' shows, you get into your kids' shows a little bit.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Depending on the show, sure.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Fair.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I have recently, every night before bed, been watching one episode, sometimes two, if no one's looking.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: My little pony on my own.
• 2:31
  unknown: My little pony.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the My Little Pony, your faces.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: My little pony, because it's friendship is magic, because it's all about friendship.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, see, it was it was clever.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was clever.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've seen My Little Pony.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: So have I.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's not the greatest.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I can't.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: How dare you!
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I can't get into it first.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not saying every episode is I'm not that's we can't tolerate that.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying every episode is a banger, but the especially the specials.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's specials?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's like like there's like uh two partners.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's like two partners and stuff.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: How did your wife feel about those?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think she tolerates a lot of my behavior.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think she tolerates a lot of things.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, do the kids like that.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Does your child ever watch with you?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: They used to.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: But they they grew out of it.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's on the you're like you're like regressing into it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And she's five.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Five.
• 3:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I have no shame.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like pointing that out.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: No, I know.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: She said this fun fact before, and I have made fun of her, and then my daughter got into my little pony for a hot minute because of my daughter.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Of watching it at her house.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: But then I was sitting there.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, yes, you're gonna get into it.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I can't get into it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, I girls never got into it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: And Penelope, sh, I it's like I it was too mature for her.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think she did it.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know that she really grasped it like at four and a half.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think anyway, I think that her obsession with my little pony is very adorable.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's cute.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the comfort.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a favorite uh episode?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Character.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um so my wife thinks I'm a combination of uh Oh, you did you take a did you take a quiz on buttons feed?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we do consider what my little pony am I?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: We could make that quiz.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: We could do that.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: We could make that quiz.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it's already out there if I am.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what we do is we sit there and decide who amongst my friends is which pony.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what are we?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now you just opened this can of worms.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh not that we know what this is.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Man, this is really tough.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Tara, you could be rarity.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what does that mean?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: She's purple.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Rainbow dash.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: She's purple.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Rarity purple.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Rarity is white with purple mane.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fashionista.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: She's a what?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: The fashionista, the one that sews.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very like.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're like Applejack, which is very loyal and honest.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a fashionista and she's loyal and honest.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what that means.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are you?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Dylan believes I am.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Not what she believes.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what you believe.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I can talk to her later.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can talk to her later.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm a combination of Rainbow Dash and God.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Twilight Sparkle.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So what does that mean?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm braggadocious and I read too much.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's no arguments.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: That fits.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: That fits.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: No notes.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, hey.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: That was better than I thought it was gonna be.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: I want a little bit of Apple Jack.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Can I be Apple Jack in Rarity?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: She can.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Can I be a combo?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you were um we were driving home that time a long time ago, and you're like, where are we at?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was like Pinkie Pie.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you have a little bit of secret pinkie pie in you when no one's looking, especially when you're one-on-one, you can have some real pinkie pie moments.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, do you have any fun facts about friendship?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Any fun things that happened in your friendships recently?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, so one of the ways that I have wanted to for a long time maintain our friendship in a more intentional, more concrete way.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because life is busy.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of things.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it gets really, really hard to schedule intentional time.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I wanted to do some kind of like monthly or every other month club.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I really like interior design, and as I am done like designing my apartment, I was trying to also figure out a way to like switch my creative energy.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I came up with What's the title?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh nice! I am this isn't being nice.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's supposed to be funny, but Brendel did not get the joke.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: I got the joke.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't think it's a good name.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: It the friendship club dot dot dot dot dot dot with wine.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's too many dots.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was funny.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was great.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was long.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: We drank more than wine from now on.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we like it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll come back to the wine.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was the friendship club dot dot dot with drinking in terms of the alcohol.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the important club part is the friendship club.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's the title of the colour.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like, you know, some kind of like wine tasting and like a creative, like a creative piece and like just getting together and I like the creative piece actually a lot.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I always thought I would.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: All of us really got into it quite a bit.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Probably way more than you expected, any of us to, I think.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because I was being made fun of quite a bit for the beginning.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone everyone was like we want to do scrapbooking.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yeah, I want to do scrapbooking.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but every single one of us wants to come back and do more of it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: We wanted to do the scrapbooking.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you had good supplies for us.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: You made it fun.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: We had a lot of supplies.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Just sitting and talking, and like it was like this nice mindless activity.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: That we all got to do together, and everyone's turned out so different.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: So different.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually a little jealous because the ladies behind us at the table at the island had different paper, and I found it like an hour and a half later.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, we should have rotated the paper.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm taking notes for how to improve in the next French.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Of course you are with wine.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is why I get made fun of, because a little bit I want it to be like informative.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: So there was a little bit about wine tasting in there.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: I had like a journal that everyone got to decorate.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: I had reflection prompts, so I'm a little nerdy because I wanted it to also, there's some learning.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, she's still a psychologist, okay?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And some structures and some structure to it, and I wanted us to all be able to be creative.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had like was very intentional about it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then we got to the friendship club with wine.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: We had eight bottles of wine for all of us.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: That we didn't finish all of those.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: I like that you noted that for the audience.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: You want them to know that we're not we don't have constant use.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: We do not have sub.
• 8:22
  unknown: No.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying she's bright.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's three of us sitting here.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't even talked about how many people were actually there, and she's more than eight bottles of wine more.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: There were there were eight, there were eight people, and they were tasting pores, and we all drove home responsibly.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um however, I did not have a wine opener.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: So this is very typical.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: This is very on brand for me.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: So she planned.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: She did pretty tasting cards.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Charcuterie board.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Charcuterie board and name clip.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: That was great.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I bought everyone journals and we had all the scrapping supplies and no wine opener.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no wine opener, and also um no actual food.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we had the charcuterie.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of knew though that people might get hungry.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I had it, I had a backup plan for the pizza book.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Which worked out.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was great.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was great.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: The wine not having the wine opener, I'm I'm an oversight.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Your wife to the rescue though.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like she came in always.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: They came in and we we got to finally start opening the wine.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm yes, I'm typically the person who forgets an ingredient at the store when they're trying to make dinner.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it can it can be irritating for people.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: We we made it work.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, turned out lovely.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: We made it work.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: So friendship.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, how did we meet you?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: How do we both we're both friends with you?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we all met together at the same time, um, doing our postdoctoral fellowship.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: How many years ago was that?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's been 11 years since we started that thing.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: 11.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: 11 years a time flap.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: We've been licensed over a decade.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look at that.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So not only did we meet there, but the three of us specifically, there was a fourth member.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: There was.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the three of us would often we would work 40 to 60 hours during hours.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of hours there.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very intensive experience.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was trauma bonded together.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then we would get together on Saturdays.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when we were studying for the E Triple Th towards the end of our training year, and we were studying for our licensing exam.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we would often get together at Panera, not usually our our apartments.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, no, it was always at a price.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: We all needed to be out.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And well, yes, you had your your dessert time that you always we always work towards.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Circle of my dessert.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was your reward for studying and we lots of coffee.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of coffee, so much coffee.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we would all just kind of do our own thing.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was more of like we're gonna share space together and support each other in this.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like, oh, Tara's really good at this piece.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can you like teach it to me or explain it to me?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or Brendel really understands that.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So right, we have this element count.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: How can we boost each other?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that was its own trauma experience because licensing exams are obese.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, luckily we all passed.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: We did, and that's the thing.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: We not only all studied together, but we all road trip down.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: This was back at the time Well, this was for the oral.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: For the oral exam.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, oral exam, we had to like go into a room with two licensed psychologists, and we were given a prompt that we did not know ahead of time.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: This was so terrifying for me.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: And we had just eradicated this part.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: We have trauma from this.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: We can talk about that.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: I would rather do that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Both were just all of it was just awful.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, no.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: The E triple P, yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the orals you had to go into a room and not know what you had a you had a field like child or geriatric or like whatever, adult.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: They would give you like they give you a patient with symptoms and then you had to cover every single thing related to that patient and how you would treat them and every element and address everything on the prompt.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they would dance and have to think on the fly.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And question you on the phone.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the question clearly had left out.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: So now you were like panicking in the world.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like my little nightmare.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was really it was so scary.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: We all rode a trip down together, stayed in the hotel room together, and then had a really great celebratory dinner together.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: We all passed.
• 12:13
  unknown: Woo!
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was, yes.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I really feel like that was one of our key bonding experiences.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was fun.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was super fun.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So then we all went into different, we went onto different paths.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which I think is always interesting too, because I think it all kind of matched our personalities in the different ways.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think one thing I love about our friendship and our connectivity is we tried, I think we've been closer and further apart, each of us individually, over time.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, over the decades.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Decades, decades, sorry.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Give us decades one of them.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: One year the old man is coming out.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's true.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's accurate.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that I love that we keep coming back to each other and and reconnecting, and that's what I love about our friendship.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, on the things outside of oh I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, please.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be don't worry about it.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're just talking um all the things that we've gone through outside of work, I think, has very much impacted how our friendship have kind of waxed and waned over the years of like, you know, I had kids first.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: You did.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was already married when we met.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: You guys had your significant others, you guys have kids now.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So like I think a lot of things that were outside of the workplace definitely impacted that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we're gonna talk about a little bit is that that did you know that friendship, it takes like 90 hours to develop a friendship of outside of leisure time, leisure time together.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: So develop and 200 hours to have a deep connection.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know that?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of hours.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of time.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: No wonder we were trauma bonding.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, we were we weren't together, you know, one-on-one or just in the small groups for all of those hours a week, obviously.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: But but it's even outside of work.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes, but uh we just had so much time together, yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Even those little 15-20 minute conversations you and I shared an office in the very beginning.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: We alternated a few days.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Man, my my memory's real fluzzy from that time.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember a little corner desk that we would alternate with.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And me and yeah, me and JT shared an office little that's right, a little slippery.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Those offices were super small, they were small.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: They were that's I remember that now.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we we didn't share it at the same time.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: We just alternated our days for yes and therapy versus like testing time that we would do.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but just a lot of you know, lunchtime and coming in after our session or discussing cases or after work happy hours.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: After work happy hours were definitely a thing, or apparently rides home after the office.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Picnic lunches.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we used to carpool you and I.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: We lived close enough and we were trying to save every penny.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean And we carpooled.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was a lot of fun.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed it.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: It racked up our hours.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: So 90 hours to establish to establish a friendship and 200 to like feel that intimacy piece.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: A deep bond, yeah.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like a deep, like an like an attachment.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as friendship, we wanted to do this episode because it's really important.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just a fun bonus, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just like, oh, it's super cool to have a friend, that's nice.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's great.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is also a utility and need for it.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are there actual parts of the brain that are motivated to seek social bonds and emotional connection?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's its own attachment system.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know this.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we talk a bunch about parent-child attachment, romantic relationship attachment, but actually there's an affiliative attachment system.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we it kind of describes our desire and tendency to seek positive social bonds, emotional connection, and group cohesiveness with others.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: So affiliative meaning I really like spending time with this person, and attachment meaning you are really emotionally important to me.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the 200 plus hours.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to build an attachment relationship with a friend, that looks very different than you know, a friendship, an acquaintance, something that is not as emotionally like just a co-relative.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Someone that you're cool with, but you're not right sharing all the things.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like an attachment figure is someone that you seek out for comfort.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's someone that you call when you're distressed.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Someone that you it really matters like if you're not around, like right, it impacts you and also someone that gives you the confidence to explore for you.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's that safe haven and safe base that we talk about in a parent-child relationship, but just in a in a friendship, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: We can be close and we can also feel confident enough in our connection that we can explore and be independent and still maintain this friendship.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think that's reflective of what you said about like our friendships changing over the years and getting closer and not as close at certain times.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: We still here 11 years later.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've obviously built and earned that with each other.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Agree a hundred percent.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think especially like I think you and I have had such an interesting road, and I we were talking about this the other day.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so for as you guys, as our audience knows, I worked at a federal prison for a time.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And during that time, um, I enjoyed the work.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of things I really liked about that system.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And unbeknownst to my conscious awareness at the time, my friends and my family were noting a lot of changes in my personality, my person experience.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And Caroline and I had this experience that I I know this is maybe sounds strange to you, but I'm so grateful for it.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I really like treasure it because just a couple years later, this is a while ago that we actually are gotten to the point.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know you were grateful in that for every first moment.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Of course not, no.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think how you chose No, I was confused and upset.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think Which you had a right to be.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: I so long story short, Caroline didn't invite me to her birthday party.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I found out on social media, like most teens do.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And like most teens do, I got left out.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was a very real feeling, no matter how old you were.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, of course.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: It does not change.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, and so and then I, because I thought this must just be some this must be some oversight.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow my text must have gotten lost.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I very like fullheartedly was like, hey, why wasn't I invited to your birthday party at a group dinner?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's not what happened.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: That was not the tone.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I really I was upset.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was upset, but I also was like.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: But you uh you did pull me aside, but it was not as like lighthearted at that point.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, there was a lot of hurt in that moment.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: When I initially was looking at my phone, I'm like, this must be this has to be some, this has to be some over like massive oversight.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would love for you to explain to them why, because I think it's so helpful to understand my part and your part of this.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I have a part.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean both do, absolutely.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I was just really struggling with a lot it going on in the world at that point in in my life as well, and wanted a light-hearted night we were crafting that night.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently that's what we do.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we do.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: There is a theme.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's a theme.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: We like to craft.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: We do like to craft.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um not at home at a local at a facility.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for birthdays we do that a lot.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was just having a hard time with some of the negativity that was happening.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that you were just really focused on at that point, and rightfully so, it was affecting you a lot.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I had some fears that it would bring it down.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually might have happened.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: We don't get to know because I I went with my choice.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it obviously it was hurtful to you.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it was.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what it really also helped me understand is um I was really unaware of how I was showing up for you.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And in a way that I wasn't really like monitoring that part of our relationship.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I needed to be.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that we can get so stuck anyone in their own lives and lose that reciprocity, right?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like you get and you get with your friends or your family, and it's like, oh, I have all these things that I want to talk about with you that I need to say to you, that is happening, and we don't see each other every day anymore, we don't see each other every week anymore.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it's like I have a lot to say, and we lose that reciprocal back and forth.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what I was really feeling at that point.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that is valid and fair, and that makes a lot of sense.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what we talked about is being really intentional about connecting, and it was a really important reflection moment for me to recognize that I was really unaware of how unhappy I was.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you've come a long way since then.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm I've I've tried to.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: You have, you've worked really hard to.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I I didn't like seeing you that way.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: None of us did.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's nice to see that you're not in that place anymore.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm very grateful.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very grateful for that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was a really hard moment for you as well to like be on the sidelines.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I was I was here, I was there.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was at the I was at the birthday and then I was at the dinner where it was very awkward.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Where it was called out.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I felt a little in the middle.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I love both of y'all.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because I, you know, was so it was, yeah, it was uncomfortable.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of uncomfortable.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no doubt.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we we took our time outside of the group, just you and me.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: We came over, we talked, we we talked about what had actually been going on and like where things were and the feelings that came up from all.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I mean it's been years now.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: It has been a long time.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's been at least three years.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe more.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe more.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't remember.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what I loved about that now, obviously now, is that I have genuinely struggled with being able to repair with a friend.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there's not a lot of people.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very extroverted.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people like, oh yeah, I'm friends with her.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: But not a lot of there's not a lot of people that I felt safe with or safe to go through a conflict with and come out with a repair.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I don't know in that moment if I like would have thought I felt safe for that, but obviously we proved it that we could.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely but if you had asked me in that moment, sure, I I don't know that I would have said that, not because of you, but because of my own insecurities of like, well, now I have to own this and I have to say yes, I was a jerk, and I didn't know.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of people wouldn't choose to do that, Caroline.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's my or they weren't or wouldn't have the capacity to.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or they'd be defensive and just be like, Well, you're bent out.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there would be like how you approach that dynamic allowed me to hear my own experience and receive that, which was very helpful for me.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Emotionally mature, as we've discussed on our podcasts, other podcasts we recorded today.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think also with friendship, it's so I have a lot of um in my youth, I don't have a lot of close friends from younger years.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so especially keeping and maintaining uh quality, valuable people that I have emotional intimacy with is so important, especially as I get older.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Especially as I get older.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's one of the things I really cherish about our friendship with both of you.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I'm very happy to have you because I don't know if I'd have any friends if I didn't without the friendship factory.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: The friendship factory, I love that term.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I came here from another state, like I had nothing when I got to that job and met you guys.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes, you had just moved to Texas.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's I ha I have some I do have a couple of friends that I still keep in touch with from childhood and from school, but my closest friends are from grad school, postdoc, and work now now.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And do you feel that that's common?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you think that that's fairly typical for people?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't I'm in the same boat.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't really have a whole lot of youth friends.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Childhood friends.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is mixed.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people do carry forward those childhood friendships, but I think it depends on if you move.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think it's I mean, yeah, I think it depends on what your what your childhood relationships look like and friendships look like.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have a lot of patients who come in and feel like they just do not belong.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: They don't fit.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the affiliative attachment system that really promotes that sense of belonging.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And friendship struggles are so normal in childhood, and we talk a lot about on our child development episodes how important it is to help kids make sense of those things and build social skills and conflict resolution skills.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And just not all of us got got that, or it wasn't as easy, or we weren't as successful right in that way.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I I do think many of us sometimes, you know, we kind of have that sense of not belonging.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I mean, you when you were talking about this episode and you mentioned friendship factories, I wasn't like I never heard about that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you were gonna firm, I was wondering what did you did you define it?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because what you're saying, so it is so much easier to make friends when you have these systems in place where like it's super easy to meet people and you have repeated exposure to them.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: So like school, yes, school, extracurriculars, work, right, college work.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right when you're younger.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: When you're that kind of stuff when you're younger.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Low pressure exposure.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, what's the propinquity?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Propinguity.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think penguin, I think penguin, and I it gets in my head.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Propinquity effect.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I don't know why.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: The propinquity effect is is is so interesting to me.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it's basically the fact the fact that repeated exposure increases liking.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and and of course, if you're like going to school with the same group of people and you're seeing them over and over again, it's like way easier to make to make friends.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why I do think many of us have still tend to have some friends from school, childhood.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they're not quite as deep.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it depends, I suppose, on how much effort and time and intention you put into maintaining the relationship.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: But when you get to be an adult, you still have work, but the work like work is changing.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much more virtual.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I was gonna say.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like the work from home piece.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I really see that in patience affecting them, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're really struggling to meet people to maintain that connection, even to feel any connection with their coworkers, even if they need to rely on them for something or reach out to it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: The stress that it causes and the loneliness.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't I can't actually imagine working in that way.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I could do it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was having a hard time seeing people virtually during COVID.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just don't I l that sounds very hard.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the interpersonal is just it's so important, but like deeply for you, like even more so than like you and I.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, no, that's just terrorist style.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I only know that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's really hard.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I do it, but it's hard.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, so when you're an adult, yes, in the work, you know, the it's harder.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's harder to meet people.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like where do you go?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's like the big difference that I noted is like the pressure.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot of apps now, like friendship apps.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are friendship apps.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: It increases there's pressure, like when you schedule a friend date, but the fact that there are friendship apps, like that tells you it's very telling.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: The need and also the lack, but it's the pressures increase when you're scheduling these connections.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Fair.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many other things that pull adults aside.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: For example, work.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we can't just go to like in college, you could just go to the gym and like if you saw a fun girl that you know you liked her workout, you could like maybe strike up a conversation and play ping pong with her later.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's what's so funny.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's what you would take specific.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's absolutely what I would think.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's so changing specific.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's just so it's so Brendel.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: She's just like It is so Brendel.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: She has like I like ping pong.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, you just have this confidence about you and this just like trust in people, and it's just really admirable.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you're just like, you're so cute, and I like your workout.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: You want to play ping pong?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a great ping pong.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I would like not do that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: We would never.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's not I would not, and not because I don't think that's a great idea.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a wonderful idea, but that's just not that super vulnerable and in like yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you're guy gonna play ping pong, and they're gonna be like, absolutely not go.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: The conversation was a little more nuanced than that, but still.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly, that didn't happen.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, obviously, they're not always going to say that.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, of course not.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's the fear, of course.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that you have more free time to do that.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was just thinking about your kid.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Our reference to studying for E Triple P like, we don't we can't just sit at Panera for 10 hours now.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, we have five kids between us.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Five children between us.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they're all in activities, we have partners, we like we have work full time, we try to take care of ourselves, pets, yeah, run a house, like we have all the things, right?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And like we can't just sit at commute.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: The commute.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: I know because you mentioned that one, and I was like, that's silly.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: But then you were like Oh my gosh, you lose so much time to this.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know, because then she would have two more hours together.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's more than a lot of time.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: The commute takes away time that we can spend together.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's so much time.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's over the course of the week.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know because I'm looking at you.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I drive too much.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: You're the one I know, but I like it.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: I like it because it's the only time where I can like not do anything for anyone and not feel guilty about it.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm in a car.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you can reframe that and see it as time for yourself, a lot of people don't see it that way.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's my time for myself.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's podcast time audio editor podcast.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Where's your podcast?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Crime junkie on the way here.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Why crime?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Shout out to Crime Junkie.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: We can cut that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, we're out of time today.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I but this is one thing I think is so great.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we're definitely gonna have Dr.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Brenner, otherwise known as Caroline, back because A, we love her so much, and there's so much more we want to talk about related to friendship.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is just I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot more agreed.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Of things about why it's so psychologically important, why it's so hard, and also how to know if you're in an unhealthy friendship.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like what to do and and yeah, how do you maintain healthy relationships with the other thing?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this will be an upcoming series that we're hoping to do, and you know, so what at the end of each episode, Caroline, what we do is we like to ask each other.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Usually I ask.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: She asks.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Usually I ask her because this is what she likes to do.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: You clearly know I'm shocked here.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to put a it's good to put a bookend on something, and sometimes she keeps talking.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I talk a lot.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she doesn't want to keep us on track for things.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think we b I think we both do a fair share.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: For different reasons.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: For different reasons.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Depending on the area.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't ever say it that way, but sometimes I'm like, maybe this is enough content.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: That is when she's actually in your brain and can hear what you're thinking and want to do.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I brought it back full circle.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so what are you taking away today from our introduction to the podcast?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: That are you like, are you gonna still be friends with us?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm gonna still be friends with you guys.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: But even her?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: We just we she's my she's my buddy.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: We aren't my travel buddy.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm gonna say she's my travel buddy.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're in California together in November.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she's you were invited.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I can I can say I was I can't go, and I can still be jealous that I can't go.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know fair.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: I will allow that.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're gonna see it.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: We will be going somewhere else next year.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: We plan 10 years.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: We planned 10 years in advance.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: We are both listening we had a long drive with three kids to Galveston, and we needed to fill our time.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Chat GPT, please help me plan the itinerary for the next 10 best friend vacations.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's not her prompt, but it was close.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it was pretty close.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was close.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we did.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we have done all the legwork.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: So next year you have no excuses.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be coming.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: But your passport needs to be updated.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um actually I had that appointment scheduled.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And also, she can't ask me because she's already booked for the California trip in like three months, so she has to keep me around for at least that long.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think she just likes who I am as a person.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well Okay, well, thanks for answering the question for me, guys.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still gonna be friends with you.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love you both.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: This was fun.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for asking me to come back.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I guess we should do a series on this.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Makes sense.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually think Caroline's idea of of evaluating group dynamics after this is just a great idea.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna go have some lunch and talk about what came up.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: What's wrong with your neck right now?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's what came up.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is the part that's so what my kids do to me when they're sassing me.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's some there's some energy here today.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Different energy.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was different energy, but I think it's great.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we're gonna process it all at lunch.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: She's got a whole I have an itinerary.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we're gonna leave it.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or any kind of professional mental health treatment.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: We hope that we can share with you our experience authentically and genuinely, and we hope that occasionally we'll make you laugh.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can relate to our quest and how we're psyched for sanity.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: The content we share is our personal opinions and insights.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: They are not clinical insights to anyone, and they don't represent or reflect any entity that we work in or have worked for in the past.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: But if listening to this podcast has made you think, we really encourage you to seek out a mental health professional in your area.