Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / PSYCHIC TIKTOK INFLUENCER APPEALS $10 MILLION VERDICT IN UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO SLAYINGS DEFAMATION CASE

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PSYCHIC TIKTOK INFLUENCER APPEALS $10 MILLION VERDICT IN UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO SLAYINGS DEFAMATION CASE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: The brutal murderers in Idaho have reverberations that go on
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: and on and on. In the last days we learn
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  Speaker 2: a university. In the last days we learn a TikToker
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  Speaker 2: who falsely accused a university professor being somehow involved in
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  Speaker 2: the murders is fighting a ten million dollar judgment. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank
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  Speaker 2: you for being with us. That's right. A TikToker was
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  Speaker 2: ordered to pay ten million dollars to a college professor
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  Speaker 2: for falsely claiming the professor played a role in the
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  Speaker 2: brutal murders of four beautiful University, Idaho students. What happened now?
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  Speaker 2: According to court documents, we've obtained a social media personality,
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  Speaker 2: a TikToker, Ashley Gaillard, who goes on social as Ashley
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  Speaker 2: solves the mysteries on TikTok Okay compared the judgment the
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  Speaker 2: ten million dollar judgment ordered against her to the Salem
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  Speaker 2: witch trials.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: This woman, Ashley Gillard, claims she conducted a tarot card
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  Speaker 2: reading after the murders to quote, get information on who
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  Speaker 2: killed the students and why repeat a tarot card reading.
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  Speaker 2: She then says her cards reveal that one of the
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  Speaker 2: slain students had a relationship with a professor, Rebecca Schofield,
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  Speaker 2: and that Schofield ordered the murders of the students. Well,
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  Speaker 2: nothing could be further from the truth. Brian Coburger murdered
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  Speaker 2: them and pled guilty to it, admitted it in court.
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  Speaker 2: This had nothing to do with the University of Idaho
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  Speaker 2: professor nothing. And if you're getting your facts material cards,
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  Speaker 2: good luck. Just f y I that is not admissible
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  Speaker 2: in court. These are the facts of what happened to
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  Speaker 2: those beautiful young students, with their lives before them.
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  Speaker 3: Emergency one one.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if you're like me, but every time
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  Speaker 2: I hear that nine one one call of the survivors
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  Speaker 2: desperately seeking help for of their friends, their roommates massacred
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  Speaker 2: butchered in their sleep, How in the world did Brian
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  Speaker 2: Cobra Barker escape trial in the last hours that deal
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  Speaker 2: with the devil goes down in open court. But I
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  Speaker 2: want you to see the prosecutor choking on his own words,
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  Speaker 2: breaking down, crying in court.
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  Speaker 4: What on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, excuse me, miss
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  Speaker 4: Coberger entered the residence of eleven twenty two King Road
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  Speaker 4: in Moscow, Idaho. He did that with the intent to kill.
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  Speaker 4: We will not represent that he intended to commit all
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  Speaker 4: of the murders that he did that night, but we
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  Speaker 4: know that that is what resulted, and that he then
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  Speaker 4: killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately, with premeditation, and with mouse forethought.
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  Speaker 4: Matty Mogan, Kate we consolf Us, Ethan Chapin, and Santa Kren.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you, really, save it. Your tears me nothing.
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  Speaker 2: You stood there and you took the deal over the
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  Speaker 2: objections of some victims' families, and I agree with them.
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  Speaker 2: At first I thought it wouldn't happen. I thought maybe
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  Speaker 2: the media was wrong. Reports could be wrong, couldn't they
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  Speaker 2: But then it went down in the last hours in
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: a court of law.
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  Speaker 1: It's done. It's over.
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  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger will never face the death penalty, he won't
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  Speaker 2: even face trial. The victims' families will never have answers
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  Speaker 2: straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensicks, Jacksonville State University,
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  Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, didn't intend
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  Speaker 2: to kill the victims.
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  Speaker 1: What didn't he go in the home with a k
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  Speaker 1: barn knife. I don't know, Joe Scott.
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  Speaker 2: Do you go into other people's homes carrying a military
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  Speaker 2: style k bar knife? I don't Why did he? Do
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  Speaker 2: you sneak in and break and adore?
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  Speaker 1: Joe Scott?
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  Speaker 2: Do you sneak around at three or four o'clock in
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  Speaker 2: the morning, trying not to wake them up so you
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  Speaker 2: can have the element of surprise on your victims?
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  Speaker 1: Any of that?
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  Speaker 2: Do you dress in an outfit that you can shed
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  Speaker 2: the moment you get out of the home like this,
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  Speaker 2: so you leave nothing behind? Do you wear a face
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  Speaker 2: mask in gloves when you encounter the residents of the home?
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  Speaker 5: No?
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  Speaker 2: This was his intent. Under the law, there are two
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  Speaker 2: types of intent. Those types of intent evidence are implied
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  Speaker 2: and explicit. Explicit intent is when I say something like
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  Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, I'm going to kill you, and then
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  Speaker 2: I shoot you dead.
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  Speaker 1: That's explicit.
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  Speaker 2: Implicit is intent manifested by your actions, such as every
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  Speaker 2: action conducted by Brian Coberger didn't intend. Just got Morgan
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  Speaker 2: explain how wrong that is? No wonder the prosecutor was crying.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, the only time I've ever carried a military knife
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  Speaker 5: anywhere was when I was in the army, and I
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  Speaker 5: don't ever really remember unsheathing at all all those years ago.
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  Speaker 5: I had it as part of my equipment, and no,
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  Speaker 5: I would not dress like this unless I had specific
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  Speaker 5: intent to do great bodily harm and bringing literally Nancy,
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  Speaker 5: I've talked about this before, an instrument of death with me.
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  Speaker 5: That's what the k bar is made for. And then
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  Speaker 5: you purpose yourself. And the only way I can really
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  Speaker 5: think of this, Nancy, is through my eyes and experience
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  Speaker 5: as a forensic scientist and Cromsen investigator death investigator, is
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  Speaker 5: that I'm trying to create barriers, layers between myself and
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  Speaker 5: the environment in which I'm in. I always go back
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  Speaker 5: to the godfather of forensics, and that is Edmund Lecarte.
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  Speaker 5: Every contact leaves a trace, it's for cards extreme exchange principle.
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  Speaker 5: I think he's probably been exposed to that, at least peripherally.
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  Speaker 5: He understands that construct and so based upon that, he's
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  Speaker 5: trying to keep himself from shedding any kind of evidence
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  Speaker 5: that might fall from him, hair, skin, any fibers off
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  Speaker 5: of his clothing he would commonly wear. And then you
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  Speaker 5: take I don't know, maybe I don't know. Let's just
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  Speaker 5: say a Dicky's jumpsuit wherever I heard that before, and
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  Speaker 5: you astume yourself in this and then you can take
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  Speaker 5: it ou off after it's bloodsht soak.
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  Speaker 2: Nancy didn't intend, then why did he go into the hump?
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  Speaker 1: Hey?
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  Speaker 2: You know, I just want to watch the prosecutor choking
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  Speaker 2: up again in court and cry as he choked down
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  Speaker 2: the words accepting a guilty plea over the objections of
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  Speaker 2: some of the victims' families, who go on to call
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  Speaker 2: the prosecutor a gutless coward who saved a killer's life.
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  Speaker 1: Let's watch this again.
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  Speaker 4: On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, excuse me, miss Coberger
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  Speaker 4: entered the residence of eleven twenty two King Road in Moscow, Idaho.
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  Speaker 4: He did that with the intent to kill. We will
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  Speaker 4: not represent that he intended to commit all of the
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: murders that he did that night, but we know that
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  Speaker 4: that is what resulted, and that he then killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately,
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  Speaker 4: with premeditation and with mouse forethought. Matty Mogen Kate, we
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: canthalus Ethan Chapin and sat Kernel.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you joining us now.
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  Speaker 2: Investigative reporter chief US reporter for Dailymail dot Com Harmania, Rodriguez, Harmonia.
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  Speaker 1: What happened in court?
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  Speaker 6: This all really went down very quickly. As you mentioned,
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  Speaker 6: half of the victims families disapproved strongly of this deal,
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  Speaker 6: and they said so before yesterday when it all took
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  Speaker 6: place in court, we saw an ice colled Brian Coberger
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  Speaker 6: get up swear that he was going to tell the
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  Speaker 6: truth and really simply replying yes. As the judge went
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  Speaker 6: through the plea deal. As you mentioned, he said the
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  Speaker 6: prosecution said they couldn't be sure how many people he
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  Speaker 6: intended to kill, But in his plea deal, Brian Coberger
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  Speaker 6: said he killed these four young people, he meant to
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  Speaker 6: do so, and he is accepting responsibility for it. However, Nancy,
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  Speaker 6: one of the tragic things about this plea deal is
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  Speaker 6: that it did not require Coberger to tell the world
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  Speaker 6: what really happened, and that was one of the issues
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  Speaker 6: that some of the families have with it.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly what happened is that Brian Heiberger played guilty, escaping
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  Speaker 2: the death penalty, hermoney, Rodriguez joining us Dalelymail dot Com.
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  Speaker 1: What were the terms of the deal.
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  Speaker 6: Basically, the defense just wanted to spare Coberger's life. We've
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  Speaker 6: seen them try everything, so in exchange for him pleading
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  Speaker 6: guilty to these four murders with no details, he now
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  Speaker 6: gets to spend the rest of his life in prison
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  Speaker 6: for life sentences at a maximum security prison. He doesn't
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  Speaker 6: get to appeal his sentence. However, he gets to live
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  Speaker 6: the rest of his life in this prison. As the
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  Speaker 6: family is mentioned, he gets to build relationships, he gets
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  Speaker 6: to read books, and he will not face the death penalty.
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  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't long before the University Idaho professor sued
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  Speaker 2: the ttoker Guillard, claiming Gillard was spreading lies about her
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  Speaker 2: the professor, and hurting her reputation. She also claimed it
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  Speaker 2: led to a loss of salary increases and mental distress.
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  Speaker 2: The professor, Rebecca Schofield, was awarded ten million dollars in damages. Well,
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  Speaker 2: the TikToker as She Gaillard fights back claiming she did
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  Speaker 2: not get a fair trial due to quote fabricated evidence
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  Speaker 2: and claims the professor lied under oath. She the respondent
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  Speaker 2: as She Guillard also claims she was quote targeted and
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  Speaker 2: punished for her spiritual beliefs. Nobody cares about your spiritual beliefs.
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  Speaker 2: What they do care about is libel and slander. She
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  Speaker 2: claims her practices were quote even referred to as witchcraft.
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  Speaker 2: What tarot card readings? Okay, that said, she demands the
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  Speaker 2: judge throughout the ten million dollar Fruit, let me remind
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  Speaker 2: everybody Brian Coburger pled guilty after overwhelming evidence, including DNA
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  Speaker 2: points to his guilt. This is what happened, Chris mcdonna.
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  Speaker 2: Every conviction, every felony conviction, gets appealed.
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  Speaker 1: Done check.
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  Speaker 2: So to say, oh, we did it to avoid an appeal,
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  Speaker 2: that's let me just say, legal term crap. Because you know,
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  Speaker 2: every case that is a conviction gets appealed. If they
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  Speaker 2: cannot afford a new appellant attorney, the state will give
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  Speaker 2: them an appellant attorney for free. So it's no skin
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  Speaker 2: off the state's back for the to say, oh, now
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  Speaker 2: there's no chance of appeal. That bought me nothing. So
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  Speaker 2: what do you make of what the prosecutor did? And
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  Speaker 2: I'm sick of looking at him crying in court? Save
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  Speaker 2: the tears. The people that are crying are the victims' families.
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  Speaker 2: So you know what, Suck it up, man, Go ahead
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  Speaker 2: mc donough you know what.
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  Speaker 7: Nancy, you are one thousand percent right. Once again, this
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  Speaker 7: case has been driven by emotional mitigation for the horror
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  Speaker 7: of these events. And I have information that they met
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  Speaker 7: with the AG's office, and the AG's office, you know,
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  Speaker 7: did not invite the families to the table. They sent
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  Speaker 7: that email out with an attachment letter. And then the
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  Speaker 7: discussion was there was half of the victims' families that
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  Speaker 7: wanted the deal and half did not. But the age
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  Speaker 7: leaned towards the cost of the trial up to fifteen
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  Speaker 7: million dollars with the projection, and so they went with
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  Speaker 7: the state and they left the victims out to try
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  Speaker 7: and part of that deal would be he would have
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  Speaker 7: to write out you know, exactly what he did, but
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  Speaker 7: that information's not available yet and sold.
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  Speaker 1: Chris mcdona, please stop.
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  Speaker 2: Are you saying, yep, that part of the deal it
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  Speaker 2: was a deal for the defendant, not for the state
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  Speaker 2: or the victims' families. Was that Brian Coburger right out
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  Speaker 2: what he did? In other words, I committed murder. I
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  Speaker 2: committed murder. What write it out five hundred times and
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  Speaker 2: it's all over? Are you serious that I'm going to
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  Speaker 2: believe what da Coburger says, that was the deal.
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  Speaker 1: That's what I got out of this.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, that's my understanding as well.
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  Speaker 5: Nancy.
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  Speaker 7: It's horrible.
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  Speaker 8: I mean, you know, Das, haven't you know more than anybody?
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  Speaker 8: How many times would the guys like me come to
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  Speaker 8: you and present a death penalty case and you guys
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  Speaker 8: have an ethical responsibility to file a death penalty enhancement
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  Speaker 8: with the idea though, that you're not going to extract
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  Speaker 8: the plea? Hey, in this case, did this da go
• 15:07
  Speaker 8: into this whole thing knowing he was going to extract
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  Speaker 8: the plea all along? If so, I just find that's
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  Speaker 8: disturbing as well. If that's the case.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is that you expect straight out
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  Speaker 2: to Andy Cohn joining me Director Victim Services and Advocacy
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  Speaker 2: Crime Stoppers Houston, Texas.
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  Speaker 1: They don't play. I mean, really, Andy, get out of this.
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  Speaker 2: I gave up a jury trial, right the state, not me.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: The state gave up a jury trial, gave up ever
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: giving the family answers about what really happened. They'll never know,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: you know, Andy Khn. In my fiance's case, he was murdered,
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  Speaker 2: as you know, shortly before our wedding.
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  Speaker 1: I know what happened. There was a trial. I know
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  Speaker 1: what happened. He had a summer job on a construction crew.
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  Speaker 2: He was out in a remote rural area building I
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  Speaker 2: think an office building with the crew. He left a
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  Speaker 2: lunchtime to go get soft drinks for everybody else. He
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: comes back in and an angry employee that had just
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: been fired sees the company truck and opens fire on
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  Speaker 2: Keith and shoots him five times in the neck, the face,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: and the back, and he died. That's what happened. Okay,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: it's been twisted around in the Nancy.
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  Speaker 1: That's what happened.
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  Speaker 2: How do I know that because there was a trial
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  Speaker 2: and they gave all that away.
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  Speaker 1: So we could get a I did it. I did it.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I did it. I did it.
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  Speaker 2: Five pages right, one hundred times, and you're free from
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  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger like he's going to tell the truth.
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  Speaker 9: Con I'll tell you, Nancy. I serve on the board
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  Speaker 9: of Parents and Murdered Children and Surviving family members of homicide.
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  Speaker 9: I've been with them for over thirty years. This is
• 16:57
  Speaker 9: about the ultimate sucker punch that I've seen in my
• 17:00
  Speaker 9: over thirty years. What's changed in three years. Nothing? The
• 17:05
  Speaker 9: defense ran out of options. The decision was made three
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  Speaker 9: years ago to seek death. Nothing changed up until the
• 17:13
  Speaker 9: time the defense waved their white flag and said we
• 17:16
  Speaker 9: give up, we give up, We'll cut a deal with that.
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  Speaker 9: There's no mitigating factors. Families for the last believe that
• 17:24
  Speaker 9: a trial was imminent, and for you to say the
• 17:28
  Speaker 9: plea deal is in the best interest of everybody, get real.
• 17:32
  Speaker 9: To quote someone I know very well that I'm talking
• 17:35
  Speaker 9: to right now, that's a bunch of bs, and I
• 17:39
  Speaker 9: have a really big problem with the way this was handled.
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  Speaker 5: The plead.
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  Speaker 9: You're sending a form letter that's really cold, that is
• 17:49
  Speaker 9: about unemotional announcing your decision. Victims' families deserve to be
• 17:55
  Speaker 9: treated with respect and dignity, and they deserve better from
• 18:01
  Speaker 9: this prosecution. That death penalty in this country is so
• 18:04
  Speaker 9: very rarely sought to begin with, and for those that
• 18:07
  Speaker 9: are truly worthy of the ultimate punishment, Brian Cooberger is
• 18:12
  Speaker 9: at the top of the list right there. Why even
• 18:15
  Speaker 9: have a death penalty if.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: You're not I mean, you know, that's what I was
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: just about to ask you, Andy Cohn, because and I'm
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: not debating death penalty.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: No death penalty. We have the death penalty.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: So, if you've committed to having the death penalty, is
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: there a better case than murdering for innocent, unarmed University
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Idaho's students asleep or sleepy in their beds, of stalking them,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: of identifying them. And you, the PERV who have been
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: googling and searching raping women who are asleep passed out commentoes,
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  Speaker 2: you fulfill your fantasy and you murder four people, one
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: of them running down the stairs trying to get away
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  Speaker 2: from you. You chase her down and murder her. So,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: if we're going to have the death penalty, what is
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: that not the poster case for the DP?
• 19:18
  Speaker 9: Why have the death penalty if you're not going to
• 19:21
  Speaker 9: have it for Coburger? Basically, the state of Idaho is
• 19:24
  Speaker 9: basically abdicated to death penalty for any future cases. If
• 19:28
  Speaker 9: you're not going to do it for Brian Coberger. When
• 19:31
  Speaker 9: you take four lives, especially in the manner that he did,
• 19:35
  Speaker 9: this is the only possible outcome. The families now get
• 19:41
  Speaker 9: zero answers, they get nothing out of this, And basically
• 19:45
  Speaker 9: you're allowing him to call the shots. The evidence was
• 19:49
  Speaker 9: so clear and convincing. He slaughtered four young college students,
• 19:55
  Speaker 9: He deprived one, two, three, four people of their life,
• 20:00
  Speaker 9: and you're not going to deprive him of him? Where's
• 20:03
  Speaker 9: the equity in that?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Or at least offer it to a jury. This heaping
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: pain on the victims' families. Now they have this to
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: carry with them the rest of their lives that the
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: state didn't even try.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: What are they afraid to try? Act ace? For Pete's sake.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: That's your job, man, to get in there and do
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: the best you can, win or lose. To Joseph Scott
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Morgan again the host of a hit series podcast body
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott explained the injuries
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: to the four victims.
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  Speaker 5: What we know, Nancy, is that these are a collection
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: of sharp horse injuries. I think people have simply assumed
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: that they're all stab wounds. We know that based upon
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: one of the victims, well actually several of them, that
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: some of these injuries are more than likely in sized wounds,
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: which are sliced. So you've got a combination of both
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: of these. Either way, you have a mill to blade
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: that is penetrating the skin stab wounds. The way we
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: delineate them from in size wounds is that stab wounds
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: are deeper than long, and in sized wounds are longer
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: than deep. So you know, you're a Shakespeare officionado. You
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: know the what is it death by a thousand cuts?
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: That idea applies here as well. It's painful. It would
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: not have gone quickly. This was a very bloody affair,
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: and you know that. I think therein lies a real tragedy, Nancy,
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: because he will not be held to account for this
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: carnage in the sense that we would want him to
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: be held in the count. I'm not talking about the
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: death penalty here either. I'm talking about having to hear
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: about this in court and actually what he did so
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: that it burns into his ears, so that you know,
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: you think you're reliving it right now. He's you know,
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: in this kind of fantastic state in his brain. This
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: is not fantastic. This is reality. He will be able
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: to sit there and hear what they have to say.
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: But of course that ain't going to happen. It's never
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: going to happen now because the DA has offered displeet well,
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: he's been accepted, and we're left wanting correction.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: And I so rarely get to do this, but dying
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: one thousand Deaths is from Shakespeare. Death by a Thousand
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Cuts is from Imperial China. But that said, joining me
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: now in addition to Andy Khan and renowned Joe Scott Morgan,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crowns is joining US chief Medical Examiner Terren County.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth never lack a business.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: In their morgue, and he is just are of a
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: new podcast set to launch, Mayhem in the Morgue. He
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and is joining us now. Doctor Kendall Crown's following up
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: on what Joe Scott Morgan just told us what actually
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: caused the deaths of the four students? What did their
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: lungs fill up with blood and they asphyxiated? Did their
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: heart get slashed? I mean, how does a knife attack
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: like that end up actually killing you as opposed to
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: being wounds that could be repaired in the ear, So.
• 23:37
  Speaker 10: In stab wounds and in size wounds, you basically die
• 23:41
  Speaker 10: from blood loss. They're going to be bleeding from all
• 23:44
  Speaker 10: these wounds, bleeding out onto the bed or the surface
• 23:49
  Speaker 10: around them, and also they'll be bleeding internally, so their
• 23:53
  Speaker 10: chest cavity will fill up with blood and it'll make
• 23:55
  Speaker 10: it hard for their lungs to expand, which will cause
• 23:58
  Speaker 10: them to basically suffocate in their own blood. If the
• 24:01
  Speaker 10: heart is hit, the heart can actually bleed into the
• 24:04
  Speaker 10: sack surrounding the heart, which is called the para cardial sack,
• 24:07
  Speaker 10: and that fills up with blood and makes it hard
• 24:09
  Speaker 10: for the heart to beat, and you die from heart
• 24:12
  Speaker 10: failure that way. And then also if there is compromise
• 24:16
  Speaker 10: where the lungs are stabbed and then it communicates with
• 24:19
  Speaker 10: the airway, you can be coughing up blood and then
• 24:22
  Speaker 10: re swallowing the blood and inhaling the blood and dying
• 24:26
  Speaker 10: that way.
• 24:27
  Speaker 11: So it's a.
• 24:27
  Speaker 10: Combination of the blood loss with the possible asshixiation from
• 24:31
  Speaker 10: blood filling the chest cavity, or heart failure from blood
• 24:35
  Speaker 10: filling the pericardial sack or compromising the heartbeat. It's any
• 24:41
  Speaker 10: number of things, but it's essentially blood loss.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Tell me exactly what's going on. One of the roommates
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: and she was strong, classie. Oh, and they talk from
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: man in their house.
• 24:54
  Speaker 12: Outside in Moscow, Idaho, with the intent to commit the felling.
• 25:00
  Speaker 12: I'm a murder, yes, did you? On November thirteenth, twenty
• 25:07
  Speaker 12: twenty two in Leayta County, State of Idaho, kill and
• 25:14
  Speaker 12: murder Madison Mogan a human being? Yes, and did you
• 25:18
  Speaker 12: do that willfully and lawfully, deliberately and with premeditation and
• 25:22
  Speaker 12: meliss a forethought?
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the state does to deal with the devil,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the devil being Brian Coburger in this scenario, and for
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: what to get Brian Coberger's version of what happened that night.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: There have been a lot of.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Attacks online and call bombing the judge in this case.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Alert.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: The judge cannot force the state to go forward with
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: the death penalty. The judge cannot force the state to
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: go forward on any prosecution. The judge can form a
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: lack of prosecution to the state's age to review what's
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: happening within the District Attorney's office. But the judge can't
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: make the state do anything. The state can't make the
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: judge do anything. It's a balance of power. So everybody
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: call bombing and emailing the judge.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: So just follow this through.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Let me bring in Philip Debay, guys, our renowned attorney
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: in the LA jurisdiction. Debay under our law, the judge
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: is immune from being forced by the state or the
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: defense to really do anything. For instance, if the judge
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: had rejected the plea and said, hey, I want the
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: death penalty to Hay with this, the state could have
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: actually just gotten another judge to take the plea.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: State cannot force the judge, cannot force.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: The state to seek the death penalty. It doesn't work
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: that way. Could you explain it, Philip Debate.
• 27:09
  Speaker 13: Yes, we have what's called the separation of power is
• 27:12
  Speaker 13: both at the state and the federal level. And what
• 27:14
  Speaker 13: that means is we have three coordinate branches of government.
• 27:17
  Speaker 13: We have the executive branch, which is basically the governor,
• 27:20
  Speaker 13: the attorney general, and prosecutors. And of course we have
• 27:24
  Speaker 13: the legislative branch, which at the federal level is Congress.
• 27:27
  Speaker 13: At the state level we have the legislature, and certainly
• 27:30
  Speaker 13: at the local level you have your city council. Additionally,
• 27:34
  Speaker 13: we have the judiciary, which is our courts. And to
• 27:38
  Speaker 13: ensure that we have this fair balance of power, neither
• 27:41
  Speaker 13: branch can encroach upon the powers of either, otherwise you
• 27:45
  Speaker 13: get anarchy and you get an unjust system. And here
• 27:50
  Speaker 13: what you have is prosecutors within the executive branch alerting
• 27:55
  Speaker 13: the judiciary that a settlement has been reached. Yes, the
• 27:59
  Speaker 13: court can reject settlement agreement, but the prosecution doesn't have
• 28:03
  Speaker 13: to go forward with penalty. The prosecution can just go
• 28:06
  Speaker 13: forward with the guilt phase. And if they would have
• 28:08
  Speaker 13: commit the jury would have come back guilty on all
• 28:10
  Speaker 13: four homicides, then Brian Koberger would have got what we
• 28:15
  Speaker 13: affectionately call l WOP life without parole. So it was
• 28:19
  Speaker 13: a lose lose for the court and sadly it is
• 28:22
  Speaker 13: a lose lose for the victims' families. On the brighter
• 28:26
  Speaker 13: side of things, though the case is over, he will
• 28:29
  Speaker 13: never get out. There will be no appeals. They will
• 28:31
  Speaker 13: never ever be able to decide whether or not the
• 28:34
  Speaker 13: denial of this motion was accurate, whether or not the
• 28:39
  Speaker 13: Atkins denial was accurate regarding his I don't know that.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: You don't know any of that.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Well, remember when Charles Manson, remember him Psychi freaky killer? Yes,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: remember that, the Manson murders. There's been a lot of
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: movies about it. Yes, Charles Manson got the death penalty,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: didn't he didn't he get the death penalty? That's a yes, yes, Okay,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: he got sentenced to the death penalty and what happened?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: The law changed?
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: The law changed, right, yes, and suddenly the death penalty
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: was gone, and he came up over and over and
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: over to be released on parole. Can you just agree
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to that much debate? I know you'll want to fight
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: with me, but isn't.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: That much truth?
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: Yes? It is true?
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, straight to Andy Kahn joining US Director of Victim
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Services and Advocacy for Crime Stoppers Houston. Andy Kahn, remember
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: that moment when all the laws were reversed and.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Charles Manson got life. The law was changed.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Now I understand what debate is saying, and I agree
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: with him, believe it or not to a certain extent.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: But we don't know what wild hair is going to
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: get up the rear ends of the Idaho Assembly, do
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: we or the federal government. We don't know what's going
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: to happen. But I do know if Coburger is put
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: to death, that cannot be reversed. You know who's to
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: say or who's not to say that in ten years
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: somebody would rule. I know it sounds crazy that life
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: behind bars is cruel and unusual. It's already been argued
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: thousands of times that that's cruel and unusual punishment, life
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: behind bars without parole. It's already been argued. Who's to
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: say some crazy judge doesn't go along with.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: It and he walks. No one is to say that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 9: We've seen this time and time again. And I tell
• 30:41
  Speaker 9: victims families, look, here's reality. Life without parole today doesn't
• 30:46
  Speaker 9: necessarily mean it's going to be life without parole ten
• 30:50
  Speaker 9: twenty years from now. And we've seen this repeated over
• 30:53
  Speaker 9: and over again. The other thing that we are now
• 30:55
  Speaker 9: seeing right now is so called elderly mercy release, and
• 31:00
  Speaker 9: particularly in the state of New York, where they're looking
• 31:03
  Speaker 9: at everyone from the ages of fifty five and over
• 31:07
  Speaker 9: for potential parole, including a serial killer by the name
• 31:10
  Speaker 9: of David Berkowitz. So again, it sounds good on the premise,
• 31:15
  Speaker 9: life without parole. You're never going to breathe free air again.
• 31:18
  Speaker 9: That's it. You don't have to worry about this appeal,
• 31:21
  Speaker 9: that appeal. But I have seen it. You have seen it.
• 31:24
  Speaker 9: Things change, jurisdictions changed, and this is why you're going
• 31:29
  Speaker 9: to have to keep a close abs on this, you
• 31:31
  Speaker 9: know right now today. The bottom line from my perspective
• 31:34
  Speaker 9: in this case is you let a cold blood and
• 31:36
  Speaker 9: murderer win. You allowed him to call the shots, You
• 31:40
  Speaker 9: allowed him to dictate his own terms, including I don't
• 31:44
  Speaker 9: have to say anything except for one word.
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 31:48
  Speaker 9: That's going to come back and haunt the state of Idaho,
• 31:51
  Speaker 9: and it's going to come back and haunt victims' families
• 31:54
  Speaker 9: for years down the road.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Debai, I know that, your great trial lawyer.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I know you went a lot of cases for criminals
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: to walk free.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I can't stop that.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I know you've got a great singing voice since he
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: burst out into song at Christmas with Oh Holy Night.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I know that, but I didn't know you were a clairvoyant.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Please go get your crystal ball and your turban, because
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I want to see you predict that the law won't
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: change regarding life with that parole or mercy for the
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: elderly and Coburger never walks free. Okay, waiting, are you
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: going to read the tea leaves? Would that work better
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: for you?
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: It'll never chanse Tarot cards. Never mind tarot cards.
• 32:37
  Speaker 13: Go ahead, It'll never change in the state of Idaho.
• 32:40
  Speaker 13: It might if you were a youthful offender at the
• 32:42
  Speaker 13: time of the crime, but he was what a Ripe
• 32:44
  Speaker 13: twenty twenty nine years old, so it's not as if
• 32:48
  Speaker 13: he was deprived of a review of all the youthful factors.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: So you are a clairvoyant pretty much.
• 32:56
  Speaker 13: And it's based on statistics. It's based on what's going
• 32:58
  Speaker 13: on across the country.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: You and Scott Peterson. You and Scott Peterson.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, O. J.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Simpson and his dream sequence that he really killed Nicole Brown.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't need his dream to tell me that. So
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: you are of sorts of clairvoyant. Con I'm giving you
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the last word on that.
• 33:15
  Speaker 9: We're seeing it right now, at least in several states
• 33:18
  Speaker 9: where they're taking a look at anyone from the ages
• 33:21
  Speaker 9: of fifty five or older, no matter what the actual
• 33:25
  Speaker 9: sentence is for potential senior reliefs based upon the age factor.
• 33:31
  Speaker 9: So what's happening. You can't say unequivocally that life without
• 33:36
  Speaker 9: parole for Coleberger means he will never get out, because
• 33:40
  Speaker 9: we're watching it right now. I agree because you only
• 33:44
  Speaker 9: negotiated with the learner of Cortolio.
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: I was the offenders in actually negotiating. He didn't give
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: us a call aggreciated.
• 33:50
  Speaker 14: To negotiate with us.
• 33:51
  Speaker 15: You can pretend he could have just pretended an.
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: In line, but he didn't even pretend. He basically said,
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: your guys said.
• 33:58
  Speaker 11: What is that?
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, the scenarios that spin out
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: of high profile cases are mind boggling. And now we
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: learn a TikToker who falsely accused a professor of having
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: a hand in the murders is fighting a ten million
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: dollar judgment against her. Regardless of what the TikToker claims,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: this is what happened to the four Idaho students.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just not reporting it.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I want you to hear from Killy Gonslvice's father, who
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: has been very open about the raw pain he has
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: been enduring since his daughter was murdered.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to mister Gonsalts.
• 35:11
  Speaker 16: He's going to own this.
• 35:12
  Speaker 15: He's going to inherit what Thompson did, and he's the
• 35:14
  Speaker 15: only one that can fix it, and he's the only
• 35:16
  Speaker 15: one who can't make it right. He needs to protect
• 35:19
  Speaker 15: those other surviving victims and make this person say that
• 35:23
  Speaker 15: they had nothing to do with that. He did it solely,
• 35:24
  Speaker 15: he did it all on his own and nobody else
• 35:27
  Speaker 15: was responsible, and then we won't keep having this. The
• 35:31
  Speaker 15: supporters always saying that he you know, he got set up.
• 35:35
  Speaker 15: We know what he's planning on doing. Somebody died, that died,
• 35:38
  Speaker 15: and he's going to try to say that you put
• 35:40
  Speaker 15: the blame on that person, so he's not going to
• 35:42
  Speaker 15: take accountability and comes in, didn't force him to take accountability,
• 35:45
  Speaker 15: didn't even negotiate it.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: According to the gonsolvices and others, none of them were consulted,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: No one had any input. And to the prosecutor who
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: wrote down crying in court when he did it, deal
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: with the devil.
• 36:00
  Speaker 15: List and a great because the only negotiated with the
• 36:03
  Speaker 15: learner of il Callio was the offe person actually negotiating.
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: He didn't give us a public agreciated.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: To negotiate with us.
• 36:10
  Speaker 14: He can pretend he could have.
• 36:11
  Speaker 15: Just sended in line, but he didn't even pretend. He
• 36:15
  Speaker 15: basically said, your guys, is input is.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Any straight out to Harmonia Rodriguez, the chief US reporter
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: for dallymail dot com, what happens now, Harmonia.
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: Well, we're going to have still a census in hearing
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: where hopefully the victims' families will get a chance to
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: tell Brian Coberger what these horrific crimes have done in
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: their lives. Coburger should also have a chance to say
• 36:40
  Speaker 6: anything if he so chooses, but from what we have seen,
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: he doesn't have much to say in court. He only
• 36:46
  Speaker 6: said yes with no expression, and then finally he will
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: be moved to a maximum security prison for worst of
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: the worst.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: It's actually where a lot of uh. There's also a
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: death row.
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: It's where Chad Day, the cult leader or also serial killer,
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: is held, and he will be there for his life
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: according to the plea deal. Though I know, as you said,
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: there's a possibility that who knows in the future what
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: could happen, and he could be released.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: The only way he wouldn't be released is if he
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: was put to death. Okay, because we know, Harmonia, the
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: law can change, because it has changed post sentencing in
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: murder cases. And the one I gave you what Charles
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Manson is just one example, but two special guests joining us.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: In addition to Harmonia Rodriguez, doctor Chavon Scott, psychotherapist. She's
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the best selling author. Her newest release is night Bird.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: She also wrote The Minds of mass Killers, Understanding and
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Interrupting the Pathways to Violence, Good Luck with That and
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Game Addiction the experience and the effects. Doctor Javon Scott,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. I asked Harmania Rodriguez
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: from Dailymail dot com what happens now, and she was correct.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot more to that story. This is
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: what happens. Brian Coburger will do a book deal. The
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Son of Sam laws will reversed by the US Supreme Court.
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: People think, oh, they can't profit, Well, in many jurisdictions
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: they can unless the state has enacted its own state claim.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Against it. He'll write a book.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: There will be a made for TV movie. There will
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: probably be another movie about his side of the story,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: his memoirs.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: It will talk.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: About his childhood, how isolated he felt, and so forth
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: and so on. He's going to have penpals behind bars.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Women are going to try and have conjugal visits with him.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at Luigi Manngioni.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: There is a group out there called the Proburgers that
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: support Brian Coburger. They will send him money. He may
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: even get married behind bars, like you're van der Slut.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: He's had I think two children from behind bars. He
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: has drugs, he has alcohol, he has women, he has
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: parties that is what is going to happen now. And
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: I predict this, doctor Schavon Scott, that one day there
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: will be a big symposium, a conference of krim pro
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: criminal procedure students, much like you teach Joe Scott Morgan,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: and the guest of honor will be zoomed in from
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: the penitentiary and that renowned guest will be Brian Coburger,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: where he will develop even more groupies.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: That's what's going to happen.
• 39:49
  Speaker 14: Yeah, a perverse celebrity. And when we look at it
• 39:53
  Speaker 14: from the point of view that you just laid out
• 39:56
  Speaker 14: for us, he has a far richer life than he
• 39:59
  Speaker 14: ever had free, which is very twisted, but I think
• 40:04
  Speaker 14: you're right. He's now in the ranks of Bundy, one
• 40:08
  Speaker 14: of his idols, and it's sickening. It's absolutely sickening and disturbing.
• 40:15
  Speaker 14: And I can only imagine how the families feel because
• 40:20
  Speaker 14: they were given no sense of control over any of this,
• 40:24
  Speaker 14: which I think is really important for their healing to
• 40:27
  Speaker 14: have a sense of control here.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Why do you say that. I'm very curious because I
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: distinctly remember. I don't know that the prosecutor does, but
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I remember, and Keith's family remembers before my fiancees murder
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: trial ever happened, the prosecutor came and spoke to us
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: about what he thought was the best course of action
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: and how we felt about it and what was our input.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I was so out of it.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I've just you know, hardly even remember all the words
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: that were said. But I remember the gist of the conversation.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I remember what went I remember what case parents said,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: and we did have They did have that control to
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: an extent. I mean, the family doesn't get to call
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the witnesses or put up the evidence, but they can
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: steer the ship, right if.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: They want to. You how does control help anything?
• 41:22
  Speaker 14: I think the act of having your loved ones murdered
• 41:26
  Speaker 14: is I mean, we're also protective of our kids, right,
• 41:29
  Speaker 14: It's just we want to have some benign, benevolent control
• 41:33
  Speaker 14: over the way their lives go. We want to protect them,
• 41:37
  Speaker 14: and to have your kids murdered in this kind of way,
• 41:41
  Speaker 14: that psychological need is just ripped away from you. And
• 41:46
  Speaker 14: I think it's just important to feeling some kind of
• 41:49
  Speaker 14: emotional stability again, to feel like, Okay, this horrible thing happened.
• 41:55
  Speaker 14: I'm completely devastated. This has changed my identity forever change
• 41:59
  Speaker 14: the true jectory.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Of my life.
• 42:01
  Speaker 14: But at least I get this little bit of power
• 42:05
  Speaker 14: over this, this you know, search for justice, this attempt
• 42:09
  Speaker 14: to get some kind of justice here. And I think
• 42:12
  Speaker 14: it's a psychological need that most people have.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Andy Kahn, director of Victim Services in Houston through Crime Stoppers. Andy,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: what's happened here, if it can even be imagined, is
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: after losing their child to whom they poured in all
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: their love, all their money, all their time, their hopes,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: their dreams. Yeah, I mean, I've got a life, but
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: come on, Andy, you know about my twins. They're my
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: life now, they are my life, No pressure, twins. But
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: to have that ripped away, number one. Then to have
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: it ripped away the way that they were murdered, that
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: they were murdered at all, but then the way that
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: they were murdered, Then the way the victims been dragged
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: through the mud as.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Being partiers and horrors and sluts and blah blah blah.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: They were out too late, they were drinking.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Oh no, that whole thing happened, and now this behind
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: their backs.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: You heard Gon solveus. He wasn't consulted.
• 43:15
  Speaker 9: What an emotional rollercoaster for all these families, and you
• 43:21
  Speaker 9: let a wanna be budding, Ted Bundy, I'm going to
• 43:26
  Speaker 9: be a serial killer, beats you. And that's the reality
• 43:30
  Speaker 9: right there. And you haven't heard the last of Brian
• 43:34
  Speaker 9: Cooberger because guess what exactly what you were saying earlier.
• 43:39
  Speaker 9: He is going to talk, but he's going to do
• 43:42
  Speaker 9: it on his own terms. He is going to write
• 43:46
  Speaker 9: his memoirs. From my knowledge right now, I don't see
• 43:50
  Speaker 9: anything in the prospective plea deal preventing him from meeting
• 43:55
  Speaker 9: with journalists, from sending out submissions, from talking about himself.
• 44:01
  Speaker 9: And as someone who's been basically monitoring what we now
• 44:04
  Speaker 9: call murder Abelia, and that's items that are sold from
• 44:09
  Speaker 9: high profile defendants, killers, serial killers on the open market,
• 44:14
  Speaker 9: he's about to become the new Darling.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: A deal goes down in a court of law, a
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: deal with the devil. The prosecutor in the Brian Coburger
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: case actually crying in court, choking on his words, and
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: he should have according to the victims' families. Joining me now,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: special guest doctor Dwayne Hendrix, doctor Hendrix, former warden at
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: the NDC in Brooklyn.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: That's now piece of cake.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: But also served as warden and Sheridan, Oregon, former senior
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: warden with the US Department of Justice with the Federal
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Bureau of Prisons, Founder president of a New Daylight Foundation,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: author of Who Are You See It?
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Say It Sees It?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Doctor Dwayne Hendrix, who shot to fame during the sean
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Combe investigation. Doctor Hendrix, what can you tell me about
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: where Coburger will be housed?
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Most likely?
• 45:08
  Speaker 11: Yeah, he'll be housed at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution
• 45:13
  Speaker 11: near Kuona, Idaho, which is nearly six hours from where
• 45:16
  Speaker 11: he brutally murdered those.
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: Four beautiful souls. It has.
• 45:20
  Speaker 11: The maximum security prison has capacity of five hundred and
• 45:24
  Speaker 11: forty nine inmates, and he'll be one of over one
• 45:27
  Speaker 11: hundred and thirty individuals serving a life sentence without parole.
• 45:32
  Speaker 11: His day to day activities will be very routine and
• 45:35
  Speaker 11: focused on stringent security, as maximum security facilities has the
• 45:39
  Speaker 11: greatest amount of focus on security and restricted movement. And
• 45:44
  Speaker 11: while the Idaho Department Corrections website doesn't clearly explicitly talk
• 45:49
  Speaker 11: about what programming is available to those who are incarcerated there,
• 45:54
  Speaker 11: I would beg to guess that he'll probably be involved
• 45:58
  Speaker 11: in some cognitive behavior therapy as well as mental health treatment.
• 46:04
  Speaker 11: And additionally, he will be able to visit on Thursday, Friday,
• 46:09
  Speaker 11: Saturday and Sundays. And I was listening to the conversations
• 46:13
  Speaker 11: earlier with the other guests. There is no conjugal visits
• 46:17
  Speaker 11: at this particular maximum security what they all say.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: And yet women get pregnant, don't they?
• 46:24
  Speaker 11: Yes, they do, and typically that's probably due to a
• 46:27
  Speaker 11: staff member, a volunteer, or someone that's coming or a
• 46:30
  Speaker 11: contractor coming into those institutions.
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: That does happen.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: And I'm also know Hendrix, Doctor Hendrix, you know how
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: I feel about you. But I'm calling objection bs because
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: you know what, I just covered a case where the
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: jail house seems stress.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Please remind me of the name of that. Wait, it's
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: all coming to me, Casey White. Wasn't that defensive?
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the jail house seamstress goes in a closet and
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: has affairs set with a convicted felon. You think that
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: was sanctioned, No, it wasn't. And it all ended at
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: an escape with her helping and a shootout.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Think you thinkee it happened.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: It happens all the time where inmates get women pregnant.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: You do know about the birds and the bees, right,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: doctor Henders, You do know where babies come from.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I think you do, don't.
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: You, Yes, ma'am I do.
• 47:27
  Speaker 11: I have four beautiful children.
• 47:29
  Speaker 13: Well pick them up.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: At Walmart, Hendrix. You didn't pick them up at Walmart. Okay.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: So women get pregnant by inmates, however you want to
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: claim it happens.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: It happens. I don't care if it's an employee.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: I don't care. If it's a warden, I don't care.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: If it's a seamstress. It happens. They Isn't it true?
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: They get drugs and alcohol and other contraband behind bars
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: that say yes, no, Hendrix, Yes.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 47:54
  Speaker 11: Everything that happens in the community happens behind those walls
• 47:58
  Speaker 11: in the prison setting.
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: Fortunately there to be more.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, drugs, alcohol, sex. They get tablets we saw sadly.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I hate to bring it up concert up for your mind,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: but I saw Alex mrdon, double Killer in a shirtless selfie.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Why did I have to see that from behind bars?
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Because he had a tablet? They get movie Now, you
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: said they have visits and therapy. Visits and therapy. Dave
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: mac joining me crime stories, investigative reporter, What is he saying.
• 48:33
  Speaker 16: What they've got, Nancy, is when you get into this
• 48:36
  Speaker 16: maximum security where Coburger is going to be, he's going
• 48:39
  Speaker 16: to have a life, Nancy. That's the saddest part of
• 48:42
  Speaker 16: all of this. He has access to everything that you
• 48:46
  Speaker 16: would pretty much have on the outside. He's got his
• 48:48
  Speaker 16: own room, he'll have his own private area. He'll have
• 48:52
  Speaker 16: an hour a day to go out and do whatever
• 48:54
  Speaker 16: recreation he chooses to do. He can go to the
• 48:58
  Speaker 16: library of multipurpose room and go outside. He'll have access
• 49:02
  Speaker 16: to his own TV. He'll have his tablet like you
• 49:04
  Speaker 16: were talking about. We've seen that so many times.
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: He likes older movies.
• 49:09
  Speaker 16: His vegan diet, man, you know, that's something that hasn't
• 49:11
  Speaker 16: been talking about lately.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: It will be we choke again.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Wait a minute, wait, doctor Dwayne Hendrix, did you not
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: hear what Dave mac just said.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Vegan diet?
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: Yes, you do know.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, they're going to give him special meals, right Hendrix, Yes,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: if he.
• 49:30
  Speaker 11: Is not on a flesh diet, if they call it
• 49:33
  Speaker 11: common fare in the prison setting.
• 49:35
  Speaker 10: Uh.
• 49:35
  Speaker 11: And basically he'll he'll get vegetables, fruits and protein.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 49:40
  Speaker 11: He'll he'll be on a no flesh diet. That's what
• 49:44
  Speaker 11: we would call it. We didn't call it vegan. We
• 49:46
  Speaker 11: call it no flesh.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, stop everything, just stop everything, Doctor Kendall Crowns, You,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: of course, are anow medical examiner, the esteemed lecturer at
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: the that school of medicine. You're the star of a
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: podcast about to launch Mayhem and the Morgue. You've handled
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: mass killings, You've seen what happens to the victims. Are
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: you hearing this, Doctor Kendall Crowns, that Brian Coberger is
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: going to get to watch movies, have visitation therapy and
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: special meals prepared for him. As he writes his memoirs, thoughts.
• 50:28
  Speaker 10: Well, it is the unfortunate way that our legal system,
• 50:32
  Speaker 10: in our justice system works in which the murderer and
• 50:36
  Speaker 10: the perpetrator of the violence and the terror on individuals
• 50:40
  Speaker 10: is allowed to then have a very comfortable life in
• 50:44
  Speaker 10: a basically a hotel and given anything and everything they want.
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: It is what it is.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Movie night, special vegan meals, visitations, memoirs. That's what Brian
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: co will be doing behind bars while the victims' families
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: not only remember their murdered children, but deal with the
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: pain of being ambushed. According to them, several of them,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: they had no idea this plea deal was in the works,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: and they oppose it. So doctor Dwayne Hendricks is joining us.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Former warden, you didn't tell me about movie night, did you?
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Or special meals? What happened to that? What's he going
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: to do next week? Have yoga therapy?
• 51:34
  Speaker 9: No?
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: What may be a facial and a massage? Oh wait,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: a mud bath? What's next for him? Is he going
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: to have a secretary taking down his memoirs as he dictates?
• 51:44
  Speaker 11: No, but he might have an inmate that might want
• 51:47
  Speaker 11: to take the notes for him. If a cellmate might
• 51:50
  Speaker 11: want to do that. But in terms of just his meals,
• 51:53
  Speaker 11: I mean, if he doesn't want to eat meat, he
• 51:55
  Speaker 11: doesn't have to.
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: And the crazy thing out.
• 51:59
  Speaker 11: Of all of this, most individuals serving life sentences, for
• 52:04
  Speaker 11: every year that they're every year they're incarcerated, you can
• 52:07
  Speaker 11: typically take two years off their life. And I hope
• 52:09
  Speaker 11: I'm not speaking out a turn doc who's the medical examiner.
• 52:13
  Speaker 11: But if this guy is going to be living a
• 52:16
  Speaker 11: somewhat healthy lifestyle, writing books, enjoying himself behind bars, this
• 52:23
  Speaker 11: is another sort of slap in the face to the
• 52:25
  Speaker 11: families who most of them who objected to this clea
• 52:29
  Speaker 11: agreement and not him not having the death penalty.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: A psychic t talk influencer is now appealing a ten
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: million dollar verdict in a University of Idaho defamation case.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: A woman, Asha Gillard, has been ordered to pay ten
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: million dollars damages for making false claims about a female
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: professor's alleged role in the murders of the four University
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Idaho students. That woman, Ashy Gillard, has now filed an
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: appeal in federal court. She is challenging a jury verdict
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: that found her liable for defaming professor Rebecca Schofield. A
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: federal jury determined Guillard made false statements accusing the professor
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: of planning the killings of the first students. It did
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: not take the jury long at all to award ten
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: million dollars in damages, including compensation tied to allegations about
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: the murders and claims of an inappropriate relationship with a student.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Just what a university professor does not want to hear,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Tarot card readings. Defamation TikTok influencer ten million dollars. We
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: wait as justice unfolds Nancy Grace crime story, signing off
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: goodbye friend,