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The Founding of the Smithsonian, Part One: The Remains of the James · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
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  Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear from the man the myth legend,
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  Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max Williams as I am here,
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  Speaker 1: and I am mister Max Williams, and I am Ben.
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  Speaker 1: I don't go with it and I've been bullend. That's
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  Speaker 1: mister Noel Brown as always, and Noel, A funny thing
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  Speaker 1: happened on the way to Podcast Movement. We had an
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  Speaker 1: amazing time meeting a lot of our friends, new and old,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of colleagues, and during one of the panels
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  Speaker 1: we did, we connected with a dream team that we've
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  Speaker 1: talked about quite often in the history of this show,
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  Speaker 1: the Smithsonian Institution.
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  Speaker 2: The smith the very Smithsonian Institute. We encountered it in
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  Speaker 2: its human personified form at Podcast Movements and it.
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  Speaker 1: Was a delight.
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  Speaker 2: And we are pleased to inform you Rick the Historians
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  Speaker 2: that we have the actual human embodiment of the Smithsonian
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  Speaker 2: Institute with us here on the podcast today.
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  Speaker 3: Ben tallas Mark, Yes, the.
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  Speaker 1: Rumors are true. The Smithsonian Institution's podcast side door is
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  Speaker 1: helmed by the audio producers, storyteller and senior producer Lizzie
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  Speaker 1: Peabody from Washington, DC, And Lizzie, you were here with
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  Speaker 1: us today. Holy smokes, thank you so much for joining us.
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  Speaker 4: Wow, you're welcome. I've never been introduced as the human
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  Speaker 4: embodiment of an institution, and I feel heavier already.
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  Speaker 2: The pressure is indeed on because not only has he
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  Speaker 2: given you the most difficult to live up to honorific
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  Speaker 2: I guess in our introduction of you, but we are
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  Speaker 2: literally today talking about the very founding of the institution
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  Speaker 2: in which you yourself personally embody.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, indeed, which is a founding not many people
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  Speaker 4: know about.
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  Speaker 3: I certainly didn't.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, when you think of the founding of
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  Speaker 2: like an institution that you know is funded by an
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  Speaker 2: endowment and things like that, you don't really usually think
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  Speaker 2: it's a sexy kind of exciting story. But you hipped
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  Speaker 2: us to this story, and we were fully on board
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  Speaker 2: from the word go.
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  Speaker 4: It is a sexy story, yes, I mean a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So could we get the lay of the land here,
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  Speaker 1: I think most people are before we dive in. I
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  Speaker 1: think most people are familiar with the Smithsonian Institution. Could
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  Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about Side Door and
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  Speaker 1: the mission of this show and what it explores.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, I would love to. Side Door is the Smithsonian
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  Speaker 4: Institution's podcast, meaning we broadcast stories from across the many
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  Speaker 4: museums and research complexes, which currently is in the twenties.
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  Speaker 4: There's you know, the many museums, the National Zoo, there's
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  Speaker 4: a lot of research centers as well, and so we
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  Speaker 4: get to tell stories of history, science, art and culture
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  Speaker 4: that you might miss on a typical trip to the
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  Speaker 4: National Ball and a meander through one of the museums.
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  Speaker 1: Amazing, amazing, and that reminds me, you know, like like
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  Speaker 1: you said earlier, Noel, stories that people might miss. In
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  Speaker 1: an episode of side Door, you explore the origin story,
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  Speaker 1: the genesis of the Great Smithsonian, and it all begins
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  Speaker 1: with a guy named William Bennett.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, sort of sort I mean, well, let me actually
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  Speaker 4: can I I just thought just had an idea and
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  Speaker 4: I let me just tell like, okay, So let me
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  Speaker 4: just say, you know, I think a lot of people
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  Speaker 4: when they think of the Smithsonian, they think a museum,
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  Speaker 4: or maybe a few museums, But there is nothing more
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  Speaker 4: iconic than the red sandstone castle on the National Mall.
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  Speaker 4: It's got turrets, it's got like it looks old and important. Uh,
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  Speaker 4: And people walk by it every day on the National Mall,
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  Speaker 4: not knowing that it is actually home to a crypt.
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  Speaker 4: And inside of the crypt is the body of a
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  Speaker 4: person who I would like to tell you about, whose
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  Speaker 4: story is a little bit. His story is relatively unknown
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  Speaker 4: and intricately tied to the founding of the Smithsonium.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know that couldn't have asked. I couldn't have
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  Speaker 2: asked for a better set up. I have to be
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  Speaker 2: honest with everybody here right now. I have not been
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  Speaker 2: to a Smithsonian museum. I've only been to Washington, d C.
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  Speaker 2: Twice in my life, once as a child where we
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  Speaker 2: did like some tour type stuff and that did not
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  Speaker 2: include the Smithsonian. And I went recently for the first
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  Speaker 2: time as an adult and was just passing through.
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  Speaker 3: We didn't have the time.
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  Speaker 2: But after talking with you, I cannot wait to see
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  Speaker 2: this this this this building that you're talking about. It
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  Speaker 2: sounds epically fascinating and just sort of like it would
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  Speaker 2: loom very large and be sort of a curiosity kind.
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  Speaker 3: Of moment, like what is that?
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  Speaker 2: And I'm excited to find out before I go take
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  Speaker 2: a visit, so I can right believe that.
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  Speaker 1: I know, I can't believe that we're going We're going
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  Speaker 1: to It's had to be honest, my favorite. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I go to d C not too infrequently, and it
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  Speaker 1: is by far one of my favorite stops in a
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  Speaker 1: city filled with wonders. We've gotta we've got to get
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  Speaker 1: you there, so maybe we travel. We're scheduling this right
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  Speaker 1: to travel irl as they say, maybe Lizzie, you can,
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  Speaker 1: you can take us there through the cinema of the mind.
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  Speaker 4: I would love to do that, I have to admit.
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  Speaker 4: I So I go running on the National Mall every evening.
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  Speaker 4: And did I tell you guys a story when we talk? Okay,
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  Speaker 4: so I not every evening, let's be real, but as
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  Speaker 4: many evenings as I can make myself, I go for
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  Speaker 4: a jog down on the National Mall. It's great. It's
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  Speaker 4: one of the great parts of living in DC. And
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  Speaker 4: this one evening last spring, I was jogging back from
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  Speaker 4: the Washington Monument toward the Capitol, past the Smithsonian Castle,
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  Speaker 4: and there was like a little segue tour happening, and
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  Speaker 4: the tour guide was saying something no offense but kind
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  Speaker 4: of boring about like the amount of money that it
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  Speaker 4: took to start the Smithsonian and this is the Smithsonian.
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  Speaker 4: He was about to move on, and I was like, wait,
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  Speaker 4: there's more to the story, and.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, I go And then I just actually the tour guide.
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  Speaker 4: I commandeered it. I was I was such a jerk.
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  Speaker 4: And then I stood there like sweating, profusely gesticulating, telling
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  Speaker 4: this story that I find so cool. And they were
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  Speaker 4: all leaning for it on their segways, but not too
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  Speaker 4: much or it would have been a disaster. And yeah,
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  Speaker 4: and and I told this story, and afterward they all applauded,
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  Speaker 4: and I ran off into the sunset.
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  Speaker 1: And true, and I take my leave. I got my
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  Speaker 1: favorite tour cameo ever. Fantastic.
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  Speaker 4: I know it made me like the most annoying person
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  Speaker 4: in the universe, but I cannot regret it. I just
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  Speaker 4: don't regret it.
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  Speaker 1: You're like the tour guide vigilante.
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  Speaker 2: I think there's like a meme on the Internet where
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  Speaker 2: Skeletor from the he Man Cartoons pops in and says
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  Speaker 2: like an uncomfortable fact and they goes has a and
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  Speaker 2: then he runs away, you know, kind of like that's
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  Speaker 2: you and I often will commandeer a tour, uh in
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  Speaker 2: that I will sort of piggyback on it, like if
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  Speaker 2: I like I was recently in Boston walking around the
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  Speaker 2: Freedom Trail and there was a dude dressed as Paul
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  Speaker 2: Revere giving a tour of like this historic cemetery, and
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  Speaker 2: me and my friend which kind of casually, you know,
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  Speaker 2: sort of like shadowed them a little bit, like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we didn't pay for the tour. I don't know if
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  Speaker 2: it was a paid tour, but we sort of, you know,
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  Speaker 2: kind of stalked the tour. But you did the exact opposite,
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  Speaker 2: or if it can be considered the opposite, I applaud you.
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  Speaker 2: That is an act of patriotism right there.
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  Speaker 4: Ah, thank you. I feel seen you should do well.
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  Speaker 1: So let's definitely on segues.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so let's get into some more of this lore.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking about this building. There's a secret crypt.
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  Speaker 2: I know, we've got something of a mysterious package that
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  Speaker 2: sort of starts the story.
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  Speaker 3: Why don't we start there?
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  Speaker 1: Maybe?
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  Speaker 4: Yes, Okay, let's start there. So a few years ago,
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  Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen, this package arrived at the Smithsonian Libraries
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  Speaker 4: and Archives and it was the gift. It was an
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  Speaker 4: anonymous donation. And so William Bennett, the conservator that I
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  Speaker 4: spoke to in you know, inside Door we tell the story,
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  Speaker 4: and William Bennett is one of the experts that I
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  Speaker 4: spoke with directly, and it was his job to open
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  Speaker 4: this up and figure out what it was. And it
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  Speaker 4: was this pretty old document seventeen eighty seven, like only
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  Speaker 4: a little bit younger than the United States. And it
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  Speaker 4: was this bundle of like sixteen parchment pages that were
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  Speaker 4: when he unfolded them, which took a while because he
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  Speaker 4: had to sort of hydrate the pages because they're made
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  Speaker 4: of animal skins and they were all crinkled and crackled together.
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  Speaker 4: He discovered, I mean, unfolded, it's like the size of picture,
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  Speaker 4: like a baby blanket, like a really like these are
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  Speaker 4: big pieces of paper, and he estimated probably sixteen sheeps
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  Speaker 4: worth of parchment. You know, you get like one piece
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  Speaker 4: of parchment peep.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, yes, it's like a bolty we.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Liszie, let's post here real quick. I imagine it
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  Speaker 1: is not abnormal for the Smithsonian to receive all sorts
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  Speaker 1: of interesting mail and solicited a.
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  Speaker 2: Very interesting like yeah, Ben, no, it it occurs to me,
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  Speaker 2: like it's just is this just like in a bubble mailer, Like,
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  Speaker 2: how is how is this arriving?
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  Speaker 3: You know, completely unannounced?
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  Speaker 1: So Lizzie Treaty. Tell us first, is it unusual for
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  Speaker 1: the Smithsonian to receive this kind of correspondence or is
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  Speaker 1: this like a semi frequent kind of thing.
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  Speaker 4: It's pretty frequent that people will try to give their
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  Speaker 4: things to the Smithsonian.
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  Speaker 1: Dropping books off at a library.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, bless your heart, we don't want your grandma's quilled.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, we have some old furniture. Surely it, you know,
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  Speaker 4: is a familion of national importance, you know, please take
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  Speaker 4: it off our hands. So it is not a common babies, Yes, yes,
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  Speaker 4: we've turned away. I don't know how many beanie babies
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  Speaker 4: Linzelman in American history has probably turned away, but I'm
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  Speaker 4: guessing a lot. So yeah, it's not uncommon that people
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  Speaker 4: do offer their belongings. But I think what was noteworthy
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  Speaker 4: about this document is that it was so old and
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  Speaker 4: so important to the history of the Smithsonian, and that
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  Speaker 4: I don't think anyone at the Smithsonian even knew it
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  Speaker 4: existed until it showed.
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  Speaker 2: I guess that's my thing though, you'd think there would
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  Speaker 2: have been a call or someone would have set up
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  Speaker 2: a handoff and not just sent this in the mail
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  Speaker 2: like it just Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Let me be clear, I don't actually know. There may
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  Speaker 4: have been a call. In my imagination, it was dropped
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  Speaker 4: off like a you know, like a baby on the doorstep. Sure,
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  Speaker 4: in the dead of night, swaddled up and yeah, exactly
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  Speaker 4: that's how it happened in my imagination. In reality, it
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  Speaker 4: may have been a little more bureaucratic.
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  Speaker 3: But no, no, no, it's all coming out. We need
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  Speaker 3: to leave them.
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  Speaker 4: But the story's still good. The story's still Gooding this,
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  Speaker 4: we're hydrating the sheep skin, we're opening it up. And
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  Speaker 4: William he spends a lot of time looking at old
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  Speaker 4: you know, legal ease, and he's expecting it to be
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  Speaker 4: a lot of kind of hard to decipher ancient law language. Sure,
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  Speaker 4: and he found inside drama fit for a masterpiece theater.
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  Speaker 4: Like once he could decipher the swoopy script. It was
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  Speaker 4: a story of squabbles and family feud that shed a
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  Speaker 4: lot of light on the founding of the institution that
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  Speaker 4: employs us. So, I don't know, how do you guys
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  Speaker 4: want to hear the story?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, please, okay, absolutely.
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  Speaker 4: So to tell the story, we have to go back
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  Speaker 4: to Georgian England seventeen hundreds, mid seventeen hundreds. We're in
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  Speaker 4: the quiet countryside of Bath, England, where lived a woman
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  Speaker 4: named Elizabeth Macy. And just to sort of set the
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  Speaker 4: scene because it helps me think, like Jane Austen, Pride
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  Speaker 4: and Prejudice era, this is what we're talking like high aristocracy.
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  Speaker 4: Who you are and how you were, who to whom
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  Speaker 4: you were born is all of great importance. So in
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  Speaker 4: seventeen sixty four, Elizabeth Macy is living a comfortable life
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  Speaker 4: in the quiet countryside of Bath, England. She's a widow.
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  Speaker 4: Her husband had been dead for over a decade. I
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  Speaker 4: think he died when she was in her twenties. When
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  Speaker 4: she realizes that she is pregnant, and this is a
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  Speaker 4: surprise because she's thirty six. So that's kind of old
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  Speaker 4: for the times, especially at the time, especially at the
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  Speaker 4: time I am thirty six. I want to specify, it's
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  Speaker 4: not old now.
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  Speaker 2: For the time, even today though, Like I have a
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  Speaker 2: friend who just got pregnant who is about thirty seven
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  Speaker 2: or thirty eight.
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  Speaker 3: A doctor will say you need a little extra check.
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  Speaker 1: It on. Oh yeah, it's just the thing.
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  Speaker 2: So in these days this very likely could have been
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  Speaker 2: a particularly difficult situation.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, so she's thirty six, she's pregnant, her husband's been
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  Speaker 4: dead for over a decade, and the father of this
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  Speaker 4: child is the Duke of Northumberland.
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  Speaker 1: Max, can we get a gasp? All right, perfect cantal?
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  Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, by heavens, because to be a widow in
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  Speaker 2: these days too was like almost a status where it's like,
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  Speaker 2: you're supposed to just mourn your dead husband.
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  Speaker 4: We're black and just never go outside.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, just linger in the horizon of social events, on
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  Speaker 1: the edge.
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  Speaker 3: And say, staring off into the middle distance.
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  Speaker 1: It also makes someone kind of a social I don't
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  Speaker 1: want to say, an outcast, but on the fringe of
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  Speaker 1: this pride and prejudice esque society we're.
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  Speaker 4: Describing, right, you spend your time wandering your garden and
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  Speaker 4: penning letters to your female friends.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. So.
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  Speaker 4: Not only is the father the first Duke of Northumberland.
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  Speaker 4: It gets worse. So the first Duke of Northumberland is married,
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  Speaker 4: and he's married to Elizabeth's cousin.
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  Speaker 1: Oh see, this is what happens when you have a
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  Speaker 1: real small social circuit.
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  Speaker 4: It's true. Yes, this is the hazard of a small
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  Speaker 4: social circle. So so she's in a bit of a bind.
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  Speaker 4: And to make matters worse, this is seventeen sixties England.
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  Speaker 4: This is exactly when we see the rise of what
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  Speaker 4: would today be called the tabloids. So there's this new
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  Speaker 4: gossip magazine out there. It's called Town and Country, and
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  Speaker 4: the Duke and Duchess of Northumberland are all over it.
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  Speaker 4: People want to know what are their parties, like, what
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  Speaker 4: are they wearing, who are they hanging out with, et cetera,
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  Speaker 4: et cetera. So Elizabeth Macy is like, ye, Town and
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  Speaker 4: Country cannot find out about this, God.
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  Speaker 2: Forbid, this should be you know, an absolute pr nightmare.
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  Speaker 3: This is for the Duke anyway.
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  Speaker 1: This is also the MySpace of their day, right, or
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  Speaker 1: that's not a dated reference, but this is sort of
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  Speaker 1: the social media, right, the public commons of communications.
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  Speaker 2: So sort of, yeah, a peek into the lives of
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  Speaker 2: the rich and famous and powerful.
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  Speaker 4: Right absolutely, and the country, yes, the Town and the Country.
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  Speaker 4: And remember there wasn't like a whole lot of TV
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  Speaker 4: programming or other things going on at the time, so
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  Speaker 4: people were really interested. So Elizabeth does what many many
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  Speaker 4: women did at the time. And she goes off to
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  Speaker 4: Paris to have her baby in secret, and it's a
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  Speaker 4: boy named James, so she names him James Macy, after
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  Speaker 4: her late husband. I guess just so that people who
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  Speaker 4: are really bad at math will think that maybe he's legitimate.
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  Speaker 4: And then she comes.
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  Speaker 1: Back home clever girl.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and she raises James herself. And I think it's
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  Speaker 4: relevant to say a little bit more about Elizabeth's family background,
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  Speaker 4: which is what we were able to discover of her
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  Speaker 4: through this document that showed up at the Smithsonian with
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  Speaker 4: the bundle of court documents called the Hungerford Deed. Sheds
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  Speaker 4: a lot of light into this particular family. So Elizabeth
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  Speaker 4: and her family were descendants of prominent, wealthy medieval family
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  Speaker 4: called the Hungerfords, and this document is called the Hungerford Deed.
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  Speaker 4: They were really rich, they married into royalty, they owned
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  Speaker 4: a lot of land. They were like the landed gentry.
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  Speaker 4: But by the time our story takes place, their wealth
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  Speaker 4: was sort of dwindling, and they had even had to
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  Speaker 4: sell the family castle. I'm waiting for the gas. I'm
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  Speaker 4: waiting for the gas.
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  Speaker 1: The family castle exactly sell the other castle.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: What would the other castle be, the neighbor's castle.
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  Speaker 1: The cottage castle, you know what I mean, in the
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  Speaker 1: equivalent of the Hampton's or whatever.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, So the historian that I spoke with for this
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  Speaker 4: episode calls this this whole phenomenon like the cult of ancestry.
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  Speaker 4: You know, birthright was a huge deal and what you
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  Speaker 4: inherited mattered a lot. So in seventeen sixty five, the
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  Speaker 4: year that she gave birth to James, Elizabeth's brother died.
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  Speaker 4: She had there were three of them. She had a
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  Speaker 4: brother and a sister, and her brother being the man,
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  Speaker 4: was you know, the heir to all of their wealth.
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  Speaker 4: And he his name was Lumly Hungerford Keat And that's
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  Speaker 4: first namely firstlum was his first name.
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  Speaker 2: Do you think people called him lum for sure? Lee
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  Speaker 2: Lummy Lee would have been good.
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  Speaker 4: I think they called him lomlum That's cute, I'm behind.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, super prestigious as well. It's better than Malay, I guess.
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  Speaker 2: Lumly just really is a marble mouthed kind of name.
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  Speaker 2: It's lovely, not have.
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  Speaker 1: A good malg Lumly.
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  Speaker 4: It is kind of a lumpy one.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the word.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: If he yeah. Well anyway, okay, so enough about him.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: He died. Oh no, he died, and now we're making
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: fun of his name.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, let's take a moment though, to mourn him and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: then we'll move on. Okay, great, let's go.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Can we get Max? Can we get kind of like
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: a soulful R and B mournful?
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mournful, soulful bois to men so hard to say
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: goodbye to yesterday?
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Exact? Get out of my head, that's what I'm thinking.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: But we don't have the we don't have the rights.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Sound alike.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: We'll do sound alike to think. We can use our imaginations.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: There's Max picked an incredible sound cure for this.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Fantastic Thank you so much, Max, and and Lizzie. For context, here,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: in this period of time, this this part of the
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: eighteenth century, it is unfortunately not uncommon to have a
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: sibling pass away, right in untimely manner, right.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: Right, So this wouldn't have been so uncommon. Wait, are
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: you just belittling his death? Now? Are you? Like? It's sad?
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: But not that said, I have.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: A personal vendetta every death. Reasons we're not going to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: explain because we're a family show.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, so yeah, so it wouldn't have been that uncommon
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: that Lumley died, but what was uncommon was that he
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: had no will and no heirs, so there really wasn't
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: all of his all the family wealth just was sort
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: of dropped in the lapse of the two sisters, Elizabeth
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: and Henrietta, and they had to kind of figure out
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: what to do with it and how to divide it
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: between them. And that is the hunger Ford Deed, this
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: big old document that William Bennett parsed through.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Why do I keep hitting my head hearing the hunger
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Games games. I know that's not what we're talking about,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: but I just had to get it out there so
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: maybe it would stop, the voices would stop saying this
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: But please please carry on. I apologize.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: I like it. It's it's got a cutthroat edge to
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: it that I think fit.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Because people are definitely there's some games being played here.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: And so here we have an acrimonious legal battle, right.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Hungerford games, I think is a pretty good phrase for this.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Because Elizabeth and her sister Henrietta are suddenly landed right
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: in their own right. They've inherited a tragic windfall. But
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: they are far from the only living members of the family, right.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: They are not the last of their line, which means
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: for anybody who's been in a similar situation in more
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: recent years, it means that people can come out of
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: the woodwork cousins you may not be too familiar with.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: That was the case. So once Elizabeth and Henrietta realized
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: they had inherited these lands, the first thing they discovered
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: is that they had a bunch of cousins living on
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: their land and they had to boot them off the land.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: So that didn't go over well with their cousins, and
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: thus began the first of many many lawsuits. There was
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: suing and counter suing and counter counter suing, but eventually
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: they got their cousins off their land, and they turned
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: and looked at each other and they're like, okay, now
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: we have to divide it between us. But the problem
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: was that it didn't divide evenly down the middle. So
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: they drew straws, and one of them was going to
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: get a bigger piece than the other. So Elizabeth drew
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: the short straw and Henrietta drew the long straw. She
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: got the bigger piece of land, and that meant that
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: she needed to pay Elizabeth the sum to kind of
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: make up for the difference, but she did not.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Oh so, now are they for another completely non dated reference,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Now are they in kind of a Highlanders situation? Like
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the movie? Like you know, there can only be one,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: can be only one? There we can be.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen Highlanders, so.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I guess it's okay. That's not it has boiled. It's
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: not very good. We basically gave you the best part
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: of the film.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Sean Connery, though, does have an incredible outfit, but.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: It's pretty bad earring. It's like his all right, that's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: a different show.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: It's also almost like Sean Connery is doing a bad
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Scottish accent, which is like weird considering that Sean Connery
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: is in fact Scottish. But he's like really just chewing
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: the scenery in this but unrelated.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: To today's story, but just a little.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: We have to get in our Highlander dig in today's episode.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Right, we are contractually bound to do so, and we
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: drew the short straw on this episode. So this is
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the one where we crack on Highlander and lovely And
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: it turns out that Elizabeth and Henrietta, despite being actual sisters,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: do eventually after eliminating the rest of the families claims.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: They do have this straw drawing situation and things go awry.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: So they don't just solve this between sisters, do they
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: take it back to the courts?
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Well, at first, Elizabeth is pretty patient and she's like, hey,
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: waiting for that check any day now, and Henriette is
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: I m m hmm, and then doesn't doesn't really respond
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: for a while, and they sort of go back and forth,
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: and Elizabeth kind of like, hey, you know, anytime you
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: wanted to give me that money, that'd be great, and
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: Henriette is like yeah, yeah, yeah, and then they know
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: she doesn't hear from her again, and so eventually Elizabeth
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: does sue her sister, and it's it. It is highly acrimonious,
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: and Henrietta doesn't even show up in court, and by
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: this time they're no longer speaking to each other, and
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: it's it's it's really what what William told me is that,
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: you know, reading through the document, it just gives you
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: a picture of the kind of woman that Elizabeth was,
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: and how she was described as litigious and haughty and
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: passionate and smart, and she got what she wanted and it.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Was not gonna lie. Really, you know plucky I would
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: add plucky in there, I don't.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: So this is the this is the atmosphere that young
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: James is growing up in. He's watching his mother sue
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: everyone she knows and and over lands that are inherited
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: that he will never inherit because he is illegitimate. He
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: is the bastard son of a duke, and so he's
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: kind of he had a front row seat of the
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: importance of lineage in this rigidly hierarchical society, and his
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: own lack of a father had a huge impact on him.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: It carried a stigma in a way that I think
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: it's hard for us even to fully understand in the
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: modern context. But as an example, when he enrolled at Oxford,
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: you had to sign this ledger book, and right next
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: to your name you wrote your father's name, and he
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: left his father's name blank. And for pages and pages
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: and pages before and after years and years and years,
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: not a single other person left that spot blank. So
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: it was like this glaring omission in this big book
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: of important and learned people. So that really it really
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: got to him and his illegitimacy was public knowledge, but
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: his paternity, like, he knew who his father was, everyone
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: knew he was illegitimate. Nobody knew who his father was really,
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: but he did. And Heather Ewing, the historian I spoke
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: with sort of we infer that he probably really hoped
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: that his father would recognize him before his death, maybe
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: at least acknowledged that he was his son, but he didn't.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: So they didn't have you know, they didn't have a
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: familiar relationship. No, we'd consider them pretty much totally estranged.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: Completely estranged. Yeah, I don't know that they ever even spoke.
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, there was no open acknowledgment that James was
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: the Duke's son ever. And when James was a young man,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: his father died, and that was that there was no
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: chance of any kind of recognition or coming together. There
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: was no like bedside scene of you know, weeping in
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: each other's arms.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: And we can add that to the adaptation, right, sure,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: we just shoehorn one of those in and it seems
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: like it belongs.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Just a caption at the beginning that says, inspired by
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: a true story.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Gosh, well, after this baby reindeer Shenanigan, I don't think
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: anyone's ever going to say something was definitely a true story. However,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I think probably best to just say inspired by actual
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: events and just go from there.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: Memory is subjective. Who can who completely agree?
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: We have a thing we call a ridiculous history cinematic universe. So, Lizzie,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: we often in our heads are building out what the
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: film adaptation of this might look like. But in our
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: present day, our William Bennett is finding out about this
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: as he's reading this rehydrated sheepskin, and I imagine at
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: this point there has not been a film adaptation of
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: this strange story.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: Not yet. But for those with funding and the interest,
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: come hither.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: We're here to entertain all pitches. Yes, hold the phone,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: said Alexander Brandell, joking a joke that will work earlier.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is this is.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Part one of our exploration of the origin of the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Grand Smithsonian Institution with none other than the physical embodiment
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: of the Smithsonian. Host and producer of Side Door, Lizzie
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Peabody and Noel we knew this was going to be
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: such an amazing time. And Max with the kids call
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: a banger yeah or a hoop nanny. I don't think
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the kids. We know different kids there. So if you
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: if you had asked us, if you had you know,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: been like Noel, Max, what's the story about the Smithsonian,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: We couldn't really have told you, especially not near as
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: well as the actual experts at the Smithsonian. So this
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: is part one. Please tune in later in just a
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: few days for part two. And Noel, you know, we're
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: not exactly sure where we're gonna cut this, but I
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: think we're killing it.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: So first of all, let us thank her said embodiment,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Lizzie Peabody for her time on the show. Thanks to
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: some producer Max Williams, Alex Williams, you Cobozar team.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: And thanks of course to our own stuffy aristocrat Jonathan
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Strickland aka the Quiztor. Thanks to aj Bahamas, Jacobs, Doctor
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Rachel Big Spinach Lance Gonna have to find a street
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: name for Lizzie in a little bit, but maybe that's
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: for part two. Thanks to Chris Rossiotis E's Jeff Goat
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: here in spirit and Noel has always thanks to you
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: you as well, Ben. We'll see you next time, folks.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.