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Batman and Superman v Jenna Busch · Movie Meltdown

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Leah Thompson. You're listening to Movie Meltdown.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: It's showtime. The following feature has been rated R by
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: the Motion Picture Association of America.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised.
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Well, frankly, I've never been able to understand violence in
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: any form or way.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: What's up?
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: Welcome to Movie Meltdown.
• 1:21
  Speaker 6: I'm Brian, and with me today is David Lugo.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: I'm Sterling Pratt.
• 1:26
  Speaker 7: And we're kind of champing at the bit here. We're
• 1:30
  Speaker 7: getting geared up. We're going to have our special guest
• 1:32
  Speaker 7: with us and we're going to talk about, I've tried
• 1:34
  Speaker 7: to contain.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: You to the geek rage. We're trying, not the geek rage,
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: but you know. It's difficult. We're getting all riled up already.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: We haven't even started yet. Dave over there is like vibrating.
• 1:48
  Speaker 6: I really, really, really am going to try to be
• 1:51
  Speaker 6: down the middle. My thing, what this movie has brought
• 1:53
  Speaker 6: out me more than anything is realizing that I love
• 1:55
  Speaker 6: comics and it bums me out that it has become
• 1:58
  Speaker 6: Marvel versus DC. Cause I love all comics and it
• 2:01
  Speaker 6: bums me out that, you know, it's hard to talk
• 2:04
  Speaker 6: about this movie without someone's first response being like, well,
• 2:07
  Speaker 6: are you a Marvel fan? It's like, they almost immediately
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: want to go to the, like you're trying to like,
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: you know, backstabbed other guys. Like, dude, I love all comics.
• 2:16
  Speaker 6: This should have been so huge. It is the Holy
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: Trinity of DC. You have the three big guys in
• 2:23
  Speaker 6: one movie. This should have destroyed everything.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for my part, I want to say that the
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: DC versus Marvel thing, whatever. I've never been part of
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: that rivalry, except briefly. I think when I was 10
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: years old in the 90s, I thought Image Comics was
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: the coolest thing ever. It's all about Dark Horse, man.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Get over it. Yeah, when I picked up my first
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: issue of Witchblade, and I was like, this is the future, man. but, uh, Hey, okay.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: We have a guest coming, so I should probably stop talking.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: Is that a time tuner?
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: A time tuner.
• 2:58
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Because my schedule is so ridiculous that, um, it has
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: been said to me a number of times that I
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: would benefit from one of these. So I bought it.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: And now you have it. Yeah, that's right. Um, yeah, no,
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: that movie, uh, by the way, a quick detour, we
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: were talking about overly long films and how, and how
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: it's rare, you know, lately, uh, I think Dave, you
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: were saying that, uh, that they're talking about re-releasing the film,
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: Batman v Superman, as the director's cut.
• 3:23
  Speaker 7: To try to make more money.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, you mean to explain it? Right.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: And I'm thinking about films that seem to take way
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: longer than they should, and I thought, well, when the
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: Harry Potter movies came out, or the Lord of the
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: Rings movies came out, of course all of us geeks
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: were like, yeah, no, I want an extra hour of that. Yeah,
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: why not? But it's so rare to have anyone just
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: sort of, the normal people, the straights, if you will,
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: sitting around going, huh, two and a half hours? No,
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: that wasn't enough for that movie.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Well, the Hobbit series overdid it, too, because that was super,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: super long. Yeah, the Hobbit movies, I was like, why
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: are they so long? It's a kid's book.
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: Why are there three?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, God, they have extended cuts. How many hours? I mean,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: how many pages was The Hobbit?
• 4:04
  Speaker 7: The shortest book now becomes the longest story ever told.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: We luckily have an hour for every page of The Hobbit.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: That's great. And also there's logic in Middle Earth where, like,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: you know, the gold melts under dragon fire when it
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: needs to, and then sometimes it doesn't.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: That's movie logic there. Convenient movie logic. Oh, nice. Well,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: this is Miss Jenna Bush. Hello. Thank you for joining us.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 4:31
  Speaker 7: I'm sure we're going to have more than enough to
• 4:32
  Speaker 7: say about our movie, but I thought just to do
• 4:34
  Speaker 7: a little intro, we can't get too sidetracked or we'll
• 4:37
  Speaker 7: never get to the movie, but just a little bit
• 4:42
  Speaker 7: about you. I mean, you've you've been writing for years,
• 4:45
  Speaker 7: you've been hosting stuff for years, and most of them geek-centric.
• 4:48
  Speaker 7: You've been at the geek game for years now, so
• 4:51
  Speaker 7: I kind of wanted to get your take on it,
• 4:53
  Speaker 7: you know, just sort of coming up, specifically the way
• 4:56
  Speaker 7: that it's changed in these last, I would say even
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: five years. Like, it's been a steady change in general, but, like,
• 5:03
  Speaker 7: these last four or five years has been, like, a
• 5:05
  Speaker 7: 180-degree turn.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It really has. I mean, I think there was a
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: sense of community when geekdom wasn't really cool, and so...
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: You had a lot of people who were like, oh,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: being a geek, it's our thing. And even though I
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: was obviously a girl in this from the 70s, so yes,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: you can do the math. But I've been part of
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: it for a long time, and no one cared that
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I was a girl when I was a kid. They
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: were like, oh, cool, a girl's going to hang out
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: with us. But the older I got, all those people
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: were like, God, I wish there was a girl who
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: played video games with me. all of a sudden they're like,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: girls shouldn't play video games.
• 5:38
  Speaker 9: Why?
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: And then Gamergate happened.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I went through Gamergate. There were death and
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: rape threats every day. Oh my gosh. Yeah, doxing threats.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: They were threatening my site. So yeah, I went through
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: all of that.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: It's been a giant explosion. It's ugly. It is ugly,
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: and it's very strange. I'm sorry, I don't mean to
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: cut in.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no. No, I think part of it
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: is that because it's become part of pop culture, people
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: who are like, this is our thing, this is the
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: thing that we have, this is the one place we
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable. Why are the girls in here? Like, And
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's just this, like, people are taking my thing.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, I kind of get that. Not really in
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: the girl sense. I want to get back to that.
• 6:11
  Speaker 7: But in the, it is interesting how mainstream it's become.
• 6:16
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Speaker 7: Where I do feel like even, you know, guys and
• 6:18
  Speaker 7: girls that are hardcore geeks, like, we still kind of
• 6:21
  Speaker 7: rally around. And we're like, why all of a sudden
• 6:23
  Speaker 7: does everybody love zombies and superheroes?
• 6:25
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: And comic books and video games.
• 6:27
  Speaker 8: Oh, yeah.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: That, like, it was our thing.
• 6:29
  Speaker 7: And now these normal people are moving into my territory.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: It transcends.
• 6:33
  Speaker 6: Medium, I believe, too. You can say it about the
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: old school punk scene. When it became mainstream and pop
• 6:38
  Speaker 6: punk happened, there was this huge hate of like, that's
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: not punk.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: I'm an unashamed Green Day fan, so I don't care
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: about the rest of you. I listen to Green Day
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: and Rancid. I can walk both sides of the fence.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: One time I heard them compared to the Beatles and
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: the Stones of pop punk music. That's a whole other
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: hour of our lives.
• 6:59
  Speaker 6: Taking that conversation.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: But Yeah, I'll chime in on the Gamergate thing. You know,
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: I think that not so much of it has to
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: do with just, you know, for instance, the fact that
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: you're a woman and that you're interested in nerd stuff.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Because like you said, for years people didn't care. I've
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: DMed more games with a majority female players than I
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: have with majority male.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: My DM's a woman, so.
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right. So, I mean, it's not unusual. But I
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: think that as the culture wars have kind of intensified
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: and the natural corollary of that is that everything becomes
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: a battleground for that. The accusation, which I'm sure you've heard,
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: of feminism or feminist or whatever.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I am proudly a feminist. I use that term with
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: no problem.
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: And you know what? More power to you. But there
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: are plenty of people who just want to enjoy this
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: hobby or these hobbies and they just want to be
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: into it. They're not actually interested in politicizing it in
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: any degree.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: But they wind up being, in my mind, what you
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: would call a collateral damage. And that's the thing that
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: really troubles me. It's the fact that I understand people resisting, say,
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: the introduction of a political discussion. Like, hey, women's costumes
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: shouldn't be so blah, blah, blah. And they go on
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: like that for an hour. But at the same time,
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: I totally understand why we might want to revise some
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: women's costumes and why.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: With the costumes, like, I talk about this a lot,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: but I think there's a difference between being sexual and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: being sexualized. And I think you hand any woman a
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: comic book or a video game and she's going to
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: look at it and go, oh, wow, she looks hot.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: She's mostly naked.
• 8:24
  Speaker 7: And, oh.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really, really, boobs don't work that way.
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: I.e., everything Starfire has ever worn. Right, but you know what?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Starfire, it makes sense because of her backstory.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she's like a pansexual, embraces trees very physically.
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: Yes, Starfire makes total sense. Like you said earlier, though,
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: Witchblade has very specific armor.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: The body morphing armor that just covers.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: The necessary bits.
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: Right, exactly.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: And you know what, like I said, I don't have
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: a problem with nudity in video games and comic books
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. I mean, I live with
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: an artist, so I'm used to this. It's not a
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: problem for me. I mean, the human form is cool,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: and art is not supposed to be photorealistic all the time.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So that's fine.
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: Or realistic.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Exactly. And so, I mean, if I believe that Siegfried
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: and Soul Calibur can carry that sword, maybe I believe
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: that Ivy's boobs defy gravity. But there's a difference between
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: sexual and sexualized.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: Certainly, certainly.
• 9:20
  Speaker 7: And we used the word feminist, but it also... I
• 9:25
  Speaker 7: feel like a lot now it's being thrown around and
• 9:27
  Speaker 7: used wrong.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: That's what I meant about collateral damage.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Feminism is equal rights. That's what we want. Equal rights.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: It's not anti-man. I like men.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: I love them.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I live with one who is wonderful. But it doesn't
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: mean I want more than someone else. It just means
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: equal rights, which seems logical to me. I don't understand
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: why that's a problem.
• 9:48
  Speaker 7: I don't know why it's taken this long to seem
• 9:49
  Speaker 7: logical to people.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: It's dictionary definition.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Well, and we also suffer, let's face it, we also
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: suffer from extremists on any side of any given political spectrum.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: So you will have people. who want to come in
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: and simply talk about video games as though all they
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: do is encourage young boys to rape women and steal cars,
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: which they don't.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: No, they don't. Well, because look, I played all the
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: violent video games in the 80s when everyone's like, oh,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: your kid's going to be a murderer. And I have
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: yet to murder anyone.
• 10:16
  Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: That we know of.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you. Shh, don't tell people that.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, that's not necessarily the influence. However,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I will say that there is a consistent use of
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: women as reward that does tend to, you know, tell
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: young boys, like, that's what's supposed to happen. Like, you fight,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: you get the girl. That's the whole friend zone thing
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and then you get into, like, I deserve to have
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: this girl. She doesn't like me.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: Let's shoot her.
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: I saw this great spoof. It was a dorkly animated thing,
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: but they did this thing at the end where it's like,
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: Link saves Zelda at the end, and Zelda already has
• 10:49
  Speaker 6: a boyfriend, and he's just like, wait, what? He's like,
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: we're supposed to get together now, and she's like, you know, oh,
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: it's awesome. Go find my boyfriend now, and he's just like,
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: what about me? Yeah, there is that inherent thing that
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: if you save the princess, somehow you get the hookup
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: with her. And it's like, how does that make any
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: sense in any rational?
• 11:05
  Speaker 10: It doesn't.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: Well, so to kind of push this a little bit
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: more in the direction of the film, I will say
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: this is actually weirdly one of the reasons why I'm
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: looking forward to the Wonder Woman movie.
• 11:13
  Speaker 11: Yes.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: I didn't think I would ever say that, that I'm looking,
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: because I've never been a huge Wonder Woman fan. But
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: I'm looking at some of the early rushes and stills
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: and stuff, and it looks a little bit like an
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: episode of Xena Warrior Princess.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: It totally does.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: And you know what? That doesn't bother me a one bit.
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: No, Xena's awesome.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: Xena is awesome. And also, I love anything that smacks
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: of Ray Harryhausen. Those shows are just giant tributes to
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: Ray Harryhausen and Clash of the Titans and all that stuff.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: But yeah, no, so, and I will say, that's one
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: of the things that I did enjoy about Batman v Superman,
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: to start off on a positive note, Gal Gadot.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: It's the only thing.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Sorry. Gal Gadot fighting a Balrog for like, you know,
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: five minutes was one of the better parts of that film.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and the moment.
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: God, I'm marked when I realize she had him in
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: the lasso.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, and the moment that she smiles when
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: she gets up to like, oh, this is gonna be good.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh yeah, I'm here, Wonder Woman.
• 12:04
  Speaker 6: I love how her new take, not, I don't want to,
• 12:08
  Speaker 6: I said this earlier off mic, but I don't want
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: this to be a DC versus Marvel. So if I've
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: referenced things to Marvel, it's not because I'm saying it's better.
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: But I do like how they've given her a little
• 12:15
  Speaker 6: bit of that Thor thing where she likes to fight.
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: You know, everything's new and fun and fresh. She's like
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: this god from this other place.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: And she's been gone from it for a long time.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: So obviously she remembers why she used to fight.
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: That animated feature, War, was so good. It was so good.
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: She's like, ice cream. What is this ice cream? She's
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: so kind of just enamored with everything Earthly. So yeah,
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: her throwing the little Snickers when she's getting hit, it
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: was great.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: You'll hear me reference the DC animated universe.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm a big fan.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, me too. I mean, anyone who says, oh, you
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: can't make a movie out of Superman, just go watch
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: the DC Animated Universe.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Someone knows how to.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, some people do. Apparently, at one point, DC knew
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: how to license their properties and somehow forgot. But I
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: look at that, and one of the things I thought
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: of when I was watching that was Hawkgirl, who I
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: always really liked as a character, partly because every time
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: she swung that giant mace of hers, she was always like,
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: It's like.
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: Monica Sellers from the 90s.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: And she was the kind of woman, I think they
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: even mentioned this in one of the episodes, she was like, no,
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: I sweat. I sweat, I'm athletic. In other words, she
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: was very much down with the battle side of things.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: And I always really dug that. And I saw a
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: little bit of that in Gal Gadot. She looked tough.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Gal Gadot put on 17 pounds of muscle
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: for this role, by the way. And constantly talks about
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: how much she loves Wonder Woman and You know, so
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: for people who were hating on her in the beginning, like, oh,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: she's a model. Well, she worked her ass off to
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: do this. And I'm just, I think she's perfect for it.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: Get more out of life.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Go out to a movie.
• 13:55
  Speaker 9: Who's that?
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: You must be new.
• 14:05
  Speaker 11: That is Bruce Wayne. Mr.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Wayne, Clark Kent, Daily Planet.
• 14:14
  Speaker 8: What's your position on the Bat Vigilante in Gotham?
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: Civil liberties are being trampled on in your city.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: People living in fear.
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: He thinks he's above the law. The Daily Planet criticizing
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: those who think they're above the law is a little hypocritical.
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: Wouldn't you say?
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Considering every time your hero saves a cat out of
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: a tree, you read a puff piece editorial about.
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: An alien who could burn the whole place down.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: Most of the world doesn't share your opinion, Mr.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Wayne.
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: Maybe it's Gotham City and me. We just have a
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: bad history with freaks dressed like clowns.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: Boys, Bruce Wayne meets Clark Kent.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: I love bringing people together.
• 15:03
  Speaker 10: How are we?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Lex.
• 15:05
  Speaker 9: Hi.
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: Hello.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: Lex, it is a pleasure.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Ow.
• 15:07
  Speaker 9: Wow.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: That is a good grip.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: You should not pick a fight with this person. He
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: has the power to wipe out the entire human race.
• 15:15
  Speaker 8: If we believe there's even a 1% chance that he
• 15:17
  Speaker 8: is our enemy, we have to take it.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: As an absolute certainty.
• 15:22
  Speaker 6: The greatest gladiator match in the history of the world.
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: God versus man.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: Day versus night.
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: You're psychotic.
• 15:37
  Speaker 7: That is a three-syllable word for any thought too big
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: for little minds.
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: Do you know the oldest lie in America?
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: That power can be innocent. Stay down!
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: If I wanted it, you'd be dead already. Man won't
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: kill God.
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: The devil will do it.
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: What have you done?
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: Since we definitely want to get into it, I'll at
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: least throw it out here.
• 16:32
  Speaker 7: We all went out on the town.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: So here's our official rundown.
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: This week's out on the town feature is Batman v
• 16:40
  Speaker 7: Superman colon Dawn of Justice.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: Dawn of Mediocrity.
• 16:44
  Speaker 7: Dawn of Sadness.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: The year is 2016.
• 16:48
  Speaker 7: The director, who will be mentioned quite often, Zack Snyder.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. I remain a fan. I don't care
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: what any of you say.
• 16:55
  Speaker 7: I do not.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: The plot, according to IMDb, is... Wait, you need to
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: look up the plot?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: It was confusing. They had to release a deleted scene
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: to explain it.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: I thought that's why we were here. I think it's
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: supposed to be. I thought this was so we could
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: all try to put it together with our collective memories.
• 17:10
  Speaker 7: Fearing that the actions of Superman are left unchecked, Batman
• 17:14
  Speaker 7: takes on the Man of Steel while the world wrestles
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: with what kind of hero it really needs.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: Spoiler alert, we're going to ruin this movie.
• 17:21
  Speaker 7: So hopefully you've already seen it.
• 17:22
  Speaker 9: No, no, no.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Zack Snyder already did that.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: Well, all right. You get a point.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I know I'm going to get in trouble for this
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: because I'll just start off by saying I did a
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: two-sentence review on my personal Facebook page and had to ban,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I think it was like 25 people. because I was
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: called biased. I'm like, by what?
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: By what? You have thoughts.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I have thoughts that are biased.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm like.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And what I said was, I'm trying to find a
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: word that describes Batman v.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: Superman.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I think abysmal is it. I loved Wonder Woman, though.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: And so I got to think about, you know, I
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: really respect your opinions, but not to be sexist. And
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: by the way, if you start a sentence that way,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: it's going to be sexist.
• 17:59
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: But you, like, hated all the men in the movie
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: and loved the woman. And I'm like, no, no, I
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: hated all the things in the movie. I loved Wonder Woman.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: It's not the same thing.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: Well, and to be fair, I mean, Wonder Woman hardly
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: establishes herself as much of a character in the time.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: I mean, I will go into this later when I
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: start talking about the three good movies that were buried
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: in this movie. Because they did poke up their heads
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: from time to time.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: They tried.
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: But I will say, and I don't mean to be
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: sexist when I say that. Uh-oh. There we go. But no, seriously, though. Yeah, no,
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: this movie, you mentioned the plot on IMDb.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: In air quotes.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, big air quotes there. Let's be fair. This
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: is really just two of the best-selling Superman and Batman comics.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: It's the Doomsday comic, The Death of Superman, and The
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: Dark Knight Returns. And they're just slammed together. without any of,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: and I remain a fan of actually both of these comics.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: I understand.
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: Oh man, those comics are awesome.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: I want to say The Death of Superman is a
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: shallow comic, but it explores what does the world do
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: when doomsday arrives, and there is nothing that anyone can
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: do to stop it. And I think that there is
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: some value in that storyline, but this movie manages to
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: cram together almost all of the cheapest moments from those
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: two comics without any of the actual... emotional power. The
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: whole thing with The Dark Knight Returns is that Superman
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: had been corrupted by essentially late stage capitalism or.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Something like that.
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: And Ronald Reagan.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: He's not corrupted in this.
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: Nope.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: And so to kind of fill the gaps, Zack Snyder, well,
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: really David Goyer, you're going to hear me bash. Because
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: David Goyer, I kind of can't stand his scripts. The
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: one film of his that I unabashedly love is one
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: of my favorite terrible movies, which is The Crow 2.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Where everything is yellow.
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: That's all you, man.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: That's all you. I can own it.
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: I can own it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: But this movie, to my mind, it's just crammed into...
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: order to fill the gaps with David Goyer's weird God
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: obsession and his need to somehow transform Superman into, again,
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: air quotes, a character we can relate to or care
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: about or something.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Then maybe we don't use the God imagery over the
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Día de los Muertos celebration.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: Maybe not.
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: And just the length of it. Like, you know, I
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: was thinking about how after the incident happens at the
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: Capitol and he, like, disappears, I think that felt a
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: little bit like Jesus' death, like before... He rose, like
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: no one knew if he was alive or dead where
• 20:19
  Speaker 6: he was.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Not even a little bit, it's like all over this movie.
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: That's a step further when Batman uses a lance to
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: try to kill him, like Lance Elogenous. I'm like, can
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: you hammer in the religious metaphors anymore? Again, that's a
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: Zack Snyder thing. And there are good arguments for Superman
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: being the God type, but for me, I prefer it
• 20:34
  Speaker 6: more to him as the shepherd of humanity, not the
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: fire and brimstone guy deciding when to unleash.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Zack Snyder, not subtle.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: Well, and they're trying to, and he tries to play around, tries,
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: with that idea of like, Well, is the Shepard of
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Humanity just like the Fire Brimstone guy from our perspective?
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: You get a little bit of that. But really, let's
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: talk about Superman for a minute.
• 20:56
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: Because really, I was really disappointed with Man of Steel.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the first two-thirds of it.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: I don't even think I like them. Well, my biggest
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: problem with Man of Steel, and I don't want to
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: drag us off on this, but we didn't actually spend
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: much time with Superman being Superman. He was a kid
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: and had child problems with his two Robin Hood dads,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: and then he was like, And then he was Wolverine
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: for a while, like wandering around and being bitter.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: I love that you said Wolverine because that's what I
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: said coming out of the movie. It's like, why is
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: Superman acting like Wolverine?
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: And then he shows up, meets other Robin Hood dad,
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: and gets like the suit that was already made for
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: him because reasons. And he puts it on. And then
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: you see him fly around for two seconds and then
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: Zod is there. People love to make fun of the
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: first Superman movie. I think it's a classic. I loved
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: the first Superman movie.
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: It still ranks in the top 10 of greatest comic
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: films ever.
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: You see Superman doing Superman stuff. You see him rescuing people,
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: saving trains. You see him doing all this stuff that
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: we know Superman does. Here, we don't actually see any
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: of that.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: For an origin movie, it was very originless.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Can we please stop doing origin movies?
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Please.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: Speaking of which... Batman's origin story in this movie.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: We don't need to do it again. Oh my God. Plus,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: if we were going to set this up where, you know,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: the whole, Martha, If we were gonna set that up
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: so that Batman says that later, okay, that would make sense.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: But why does Superman call his mother Martha?
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: No reason, right? You would say mom.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: Or the hostage.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: The hostage is my mom. Her name's Martha, too. Are
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: we best friends now?
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: We are.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: And don't try to sell me on that like, oh, well,
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: he doesn't view her as his real mother, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Although he does make her work as a waitress in
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: a restaurant.
• 22:37
  Speaker 12: I don't know.
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: Superman, he can help out with that.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: Whatever. Yeah, doesn't she at some point in this movie say, oh,
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: I got a job as like a waitress or something
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: like that, and you're just like, really? Like, this is
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: what you're doing? I mean, didn't life insurance pay out
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: on you?
• 22:50
  Speaker 6: I mean, since we killed Paul Kent to make some
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: weird point.
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, not a physical point.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: You've got a farm. You have nothing else to do?
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: I don't understand the structure. Like, I have so many rants.
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: I don't even know where to interject certain things. But
• 23:02
  Speaker 6: kind of on that point, like, Paul Kent. It might
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: have only won where there was a huge contradiction with him.
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: In the first movie, he's don't be Superman, don't be Superman.
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: But then Martha, in the second movie is like, you know,
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: Paul Kent saw it in you. Be the man he
• 23:16
  Speaker 6: wants you to be. And I'm like, wait, Paul Kent
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: seems to be a normal dude. So why are you
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: now acting like Paul Kent told him to be Superman?
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: That is a contradiction within your own mythos, not a
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: comic book. Your own story is contradicting itself.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: And this story is filled with moments like that. I mean,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: why don't we try to attack this a little bit
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: systematically and talk about it in terms of characters.
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: We're going to be all over the place.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, can we start with Superman's super hearing that only
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: works sometimes?
• 23:41
  Speaker 11: Sure.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: So he hears Lois when she falls off the building.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: He hears Lois when she's magically trapped under the mysterious pool.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: What?
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: And in Africa.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: In Africa?
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in Africa. He hears her in Africa where everyone
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: thinks that the terrorists didn't blow stuff up. It had
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: to be Superman.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: I don't understand that scene at all.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: But then he doesn't hear his mother. And when he
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: finds out about his mother, he doesn't just go get her?
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: Have you heard about the deleted scene?
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I've seen it.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: Do we have to drag those in?
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: I've seen it, because Zack Snyder's like, oh, well, there
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: was a deleted scene where he has an inner struggle,
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: like deciding whether he should look for.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: His mom or not.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: No, he made that up.
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: But he doesn't want, this is what Zack Snyder said, though.
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: Zack Snyder, I know, is going to be the biggest
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: scapegoat here, but Zack Snyder himself said that it was
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: going to be this great plot point where it's like
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: Superman lets himself hear everything for a moment, and he's
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: so overwhelmed with the pain and the crime and the
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: agony that.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: He can't handle it very long.
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: This is not Mark Wayne's work.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, so, but then all of a sudden Lois has
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: super hearing because he's, and he goes, Martha, I didn't
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: hear you, Superman. What'd you say? Lois is out on
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: the other side of the building with explosions. He said, Martha, no,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you didn't hear that. Shut up.
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: She just picked it up by osmosis. She hangs out
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: with him.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: And he didn't hear the bomb.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and there are a few other places where
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: Superman's powers become strange. Like, for instance, when Batman throws
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: a dust bomb down and then Superman's like, oh, I
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: can't see Batman anymore. with my x-ray vision. There are
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: moments where I'm just like, or when Superman, another thing
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: I disliked is that Superman is apparently so powerful in
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: this version, he's dumb, so Batman shoots a grenade at him,
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: and he just grabs it.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: He's like, I wonder what he's shooting at me. Oh, wow,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: what this smoke, oh, that don't feel so great.
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: But the fact that he does it twice. The fact
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: that he does it a second time.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: And it works.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: And they let him fight with a spear.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: The spear, which, again, I'm just like, spear of destiny? Like,
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: what is this? Did they steal that from one of
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: the librarian movies? Oh, and by the way.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: If you're going to put a giant pool randomly in
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the bottom of a building, shouldn't that be where you
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: introduce Aquaman?
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: Because that would make sense.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: He comes up to space time. That's like his elevator
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: into the building that he has his secret identity in
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: or something. I don't know.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: He works there as an accountant or something.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: This movie would have transcended to awesome terrible.
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: Yes, yes.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: Aquaman's fist holding the kryptonite sphere had come.
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: Up out of the blue.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: That would be great.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: And it's Khal Drogo standing there with the kryptonite sphere
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: being like, are you looking for this?
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, no, okay, that would have pushed it into the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: realm of, oh, this.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: Is kind of awesome. And they would be like, thank
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: God they made this movie. That's what I would have
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: said at that moment.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, the Justice League is introduced via YouTube video.
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: Via YouTube video. That's how everything gets out now. Well,
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: one reviewer, I love it, whereas Marvel puts their teasers
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: in and everyone goes, oh, yeah, yeah, this is fun.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: It sounds like a promise. this version sounds like a threat.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: It's like, we've got all these movies coming down the
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: pipe and you can't stop it.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Cyborg is gonna happen, guys. It was like a bad
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: trauma movie. The mother box and screaming.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: No.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: I guess that's what it, oh, and remember the little,
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: The little bit with Flash or somebody in power armor
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: showing up from the future. I'm too early.
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: No, you shouldn't be here. Did you catch that was
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: in the middle of a dream, though? That was part
• 26:54
  Speaker 6: of that weird double dream. So it's like he, I guess,
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: is dreaming at the keyboard, wakes up from the prophetic dream.
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: to be still in a dream, to then be communicated
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: by a flash.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, David Goyer, ladies and gentlemen.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Wait, I feel like I want to do the Princess
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Bride about the marriage. A dweam within a dweam.
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: Mowage.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Mowage.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: But also, we can't say that all of his flashes,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: all of his weird dreams are from the flash because
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: he was having them when he was a kid because
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden the bats raised him up. Oh,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: in the beginning.
• 27:23
  Speaker 6: How scared did you get when he rose up to
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: the bat in the air? I was like, oh my gosh,
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: what's going on?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Flash didn't do that.
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: So, okay, still trying to break this down a little bit.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: Good luck. So the first thing that I had a
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: question about was actually in the very beginning of the
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: film where I feel like Zack Snyder wanted to include
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: a scene that answered some of the criticisms from the
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: Superman movie, which is like, What about all the people
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: down on the ground when he's battling Zod? There's a
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: lot of that. Because there's a lot of people dying
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: in that scene. And by the way, this plays into
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: my problem with Superman in this movie. Most of my problem.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: Based on the last movie, I honestly don't think any
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: human being on Earth has any reason to believe Superman
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: is a good person.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: But he has a statue.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: He's leveled two major cities and he hasn't saved one cat.
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: So I don't see this guy as a.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: But anyway, so our opening scene, we got Bruce Wayne
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: showing up in Metropolis, calling, as soon as he gets
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: off the helicopter or whatever, he's calling the guy who
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: owns the building, get everyone out of the building. And
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: I'm thinking to myself, Haven't they seen this spaceship descending
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: for a while?
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, I thought that was, I thought someone was shooting
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: a movie or something.
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: Standing at the windows watching it happen, he's like, uh-huh. Okay,
• 28:36
  Speaker 6: we better leave.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: We're gonna die soon. And then Bruce Wayne gets into,
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: what is it, a Wrangler or something, and he starts
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: driving around. Whoever paid for this movie.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: He hops in this shiny black car and goes driving
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: through the streets of Metropolis Island. And this whole scene,
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: I'm wondering, what are you doing? Like, do you think
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: that your presence on the scene of, like, this massive disaster,
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: it's like if September the 11th happened, sorry, Mom, but
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: if September the 11th happened and some dude was like, oh,
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: my God, get out of the building, there's another plane headed,
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: and then drove his car to the site.
• 29:07
  Speaker 8: Do it.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: Because reasons. Like, what are they gonna help?
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: No, what that whole scene was, was Zack Snyder saying, oh,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: that thing you hated in Man of Steel? Here it
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: is again. Can I curse on this?
• 29:18
  Speaker 6: It was a reshoot, though.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: It was a reshoot.
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: Because they announced the Justice League movie, and there was
• 29:23
  Speaker 6: still so much backlash on Superman that they did reshoots where,
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: I remember it came out, they're doing reshoots of the
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: destruction from Man of Steel. So immediately, everyone could put together, oh,
• 29:34
  Speaker 6: you're gonna make it canon. It was not originally canon.
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: Not that that has to be a bad thing, but
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: I just want to say. it was not the original intent.
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: You took the backlash and tried to create a story
• 29:45
  Speaker 6: around it. That is not ideal at all. That's you
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: being reactionary.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Every time anything happens in the movie, there's always a
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: news report that says, Don't worry, because everyone went home
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: for the day, so there's not going to be any
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: collateral damage this time.
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: Oh, God.
• 30:00
  Speaker 8: Really?
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like downtown Louisville doesn't get collateral damage in the afternoon.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Don't people go out in the evening?
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, let alone, that's like saying downtown Manhattan doesn't have, oh,
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: luckily there wasn't much collateral damage.
• 30:13
  Speaker 13: It's night.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: It's deserted.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: There's no people there. Right. Ignore the tall buildings, they're
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: filled with janitors. And they're all Canadian, so no one cares.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: It was known as the Canadian 9-11 was Metropolis. And
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: then the next thing that I was really kind of
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: baffled by, so this ties into it. Batman has a
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: reason to be distrustful of Superman, and he was on
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: the ground in Metropolis, okay, yeah, whatever. But then Lex
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: Luthor's plan involves making Batman more anxious about Superman, even
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: though Batman's already having prophetic dreams, which is apparently a
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: thing he does now. And as well as dreams about
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: the bat crawling out of his parents' graves. At least
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: that was a cool bat. We had that going.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Sin, psychic, murder, Batman.
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: That's what we had. That was going on. Can we
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: just watch that the whole movie? I like that bat. Well,
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: and so that was another major confusion for me is
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: this plot of Lex Luthor. Lex Luthor in this movie,
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: by the way, is one of easily.
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: What was his motivation?
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Easily one of the worst villains.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: There isn't any.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, easily one of the worst villains I've seen on
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: film in a while. Yeah, and that's just it. At
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: one point, he's like David Goyer. He's mad about God.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Then he's mad about his dad.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: His dad hit him, but also religion.
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: And And also, if you have to release a deleted
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: scene from your movie a couple days after it opens
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: to explain it, that's not good filmmaking.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: You did something wrong. Well, and you feel like they
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: tried to make this big epic film where Lex Luthor
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: was going to be the weird quirky character that you
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: didn't know he was going to do next and everything.
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: But I've got to say, there's not a single thing
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: Lex Luthor did or said in this film that made
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: him sound smart or like he had any idea what
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: he was doing.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: He just really likes Jolly Ranchers.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: He mentions Jolly Ranchers, and one point he says Euclidean circles,
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, there are no other circles. Like, if
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: you're doing geometry, it's Euclid. I don't know why you
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: think saying Euclidean something makes it smarter. Unless you're doing
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: non-Euclidean geometry, but I don't think your screenwriter knows what
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: that is.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 32:18
  Speaker 7: There was a moment at the beginning when I thought
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: he had promised, because I think Eisenberg's a good actor,
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: so I'm like, okay, I like that.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I generally like him.
• 32:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I was like, for a second there, I was like,
• 32:26
  Speaker 7: I kind of like that they're making it because they
• 32:28
  Speaker 7: went younger, which that's usually the Hollywood way. So, okay,
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: we're going younger, but I like that, okay, for a
• 32:32
  Speaker 7: second he's going to be like a, a cocky Bill
• 32:35
  Speaker 7: Gates kind of guy. He's like, I'm an up and comer.
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: I'm in the business industry.
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: I have power. Like you wouldn't believe in money to
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: back it.
• 32:43
  Speaker 7: And he's got like, unlike the, the, you know, the
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: guys who built their way to that, he's also a
• 32:47
  Speaker 7: rich kid. So he has nothing, but he's just a
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: spoiled brat. So I'm like, okay, I'm buying all of that.
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: It's then that we start getting into the fact that again, he's,
• 32:56
  Speaker 7: he has no real motivation behind it. And he starts
• 32:59
  Speaker 7: playing it like, I had somebody else bring this up,
• 33:02
  Speaker 7: and this was their main issue, and I went, you've
• 33:04
  Speaker 7: kind of got a point.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: And in the beginning, I'm like, no, I don't see it.
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: By the end, I'm like, you're totally right.
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: In the beginning, he could possibly be Lex Luthor. Midway in,
• 33:12
  Speaker 7: when he starts getting, like in the middle of the speech,
• 33:14
  Speaker 7: he starts doing that little twitchy.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: I don't know what I'm saying.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: He makes yoga noises.
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm like, what is, that.
• 33:19
  Speaker 7: Doesn't seem like Lex Luthor. They were saying to me,
• 33:22
  Speaker 7: they were like, Lex Luthor is always kind of cool.
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: This ain't your dad, he's Lex Luthor.
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: He's always calm.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: And people did say that he's Lex Luthor's son.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.
• 33:30
  Speaker 6: He's Alexander Luthor. He's supposed to be Lex's son. My
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: dad called it Lex Corp.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: By the end, he.
• 33:37
  Speaker 7: Comes to the point where he's kind of the Joker.
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: No, agreed.
• 33:41
  Speaker 7: Doesn't he?
• 33:43
  Speaker 6: I said Jim Carrey's Two-Face. I was more like Jim
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: Carrey's Two-Face. It was like Riddler, sorry. But yeah, that's
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: how it felt to me. Why is he being Jim Carrey?
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: I feel like Jim Carrey could play this part and
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: it wouldn't affect anything. It would be exactly the same.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the Joker's motivations are always kept, although apparently
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: they're going to try to explain them now, but they're
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: always kept sort of in mystery, so when he's like, yeah,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: this is my explanation for why I'm crazy, except that
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: it's totally not true. This is the one that, this
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is why I'm crazy. Oh, no, that's not true either.
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: And if he's totally crazy, he doesn't even have to
• 34:14
  Speaker 7: have motivation. No, he doesn't at all, but that's what
• 34:16
  Speaker 7: makes the Joker a great character.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: This guy, they sort of tried to explain it and
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: then didn't, and then all of a sudden he's in
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: a ship and He's making giant monsters, but then it's
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: because his dad hit him. I don't know.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: What? Yeah.
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: Well, how did he get the knowledge he did have? Like,
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: think of all the things that he knew out the gate.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: You know, I mean, Batman and Superman don't even know
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: who each other are. And he obviously did with the party, introducing.
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: So tell me, if Lex Luthor. How does he know
• 34:40
  Speaker 6: who Clark Kent is?
• 34:41
  Speaker 9: Exactly.
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: If Lex Luthor knows who Clark Kent is, and why
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: the hell this writer who's supposed to be doing a
• 34:46
  Speaker 6: football article is at this dignitary event. He's a bad writer.
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: But if you know who Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne are,
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: why aren't you just sniping them? Why are you trying
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: to get them to kill each other?
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Because it's a movie.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: Well, okay. Actually, that brings me to one of my
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: biggest problems with this film. Okay, I think I can
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: sum it up in one phrase, which is manufactured conflict.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: So it's tough to talk about manufactured conflict when it
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: comes to films because, of course.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: They are technically all manufactured conflicts.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: They are, yeah, technically all manufactured. But the main distinction
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: that I would draw, in this film at least, is
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: to say that A manufactured conflict is a conflict that
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: is not necessitated by any of the character's motivations but
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: kind of comes out of left field or doesn't seem
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: to serve any larger purpose in the plot. Take a
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: good example. So he's talking to the general or whoever
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: and the general just sort of looks at him and says,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: what do you need? little Zuckerberg kid. By the way,
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: the idea of Mark Zuckerberg versus Superman makes me insanely happy.
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: That's kind of like, I have to fight Facebook if
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna win.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Facebook will win.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: The answer is no.
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, they will dock Superman and be all over.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: The all-powerful Facebook. Be all over that movie. Superman fights Facebook.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: But anyway, but okay, so he meets with the general
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: and the general's like, okay, I'll give you whatever you want.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: And we have scenes including a nonsensical scene of him like,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: guiding in the body of Zod as though he was
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: going to operate on it in the hallway. Sorry, for
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: some reason that one moment made me just like, what
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: are you doing? But anyway, and then the senator from Kentucky, hey,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: comes out of nowhere and she's like, I'm not going
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: to let you have the thing you want. And then
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: he's like, damn it, okay, well, villain monologue time. Come
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: over to my place later on tonight. Talks with her,
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: and then later on in the movie, blows her up. Sure.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: That seems like a perfect path.
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so it blows her up, but at the same
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: time in such a way that I guess was supposed
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: to implicate Superman, except that it didn't implicate Superman.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and didn't he send his assistant in there, too?
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, why does Mercy have to die? Mercy's like his
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: right-hand girl.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: He's a great character.
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: Don't kill her.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, but he killed Jimmy Olsen, too, so.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: Right, well, and because it's fun.
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: Did you see the quote? No, the quote was fun.
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: Zack Snyder literally used the word fun. They said something
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: about how, again, there's a deleted scene where Olsen dies.
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: introduces himself to Lois, so you really know that that
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: is Jimmy getting killed in the beginning. And he made
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: the point, like, talking about how, like, oh, yeah, I
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: realize we have Jimmy Olsen also, so we decided to
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: have a little fun with him. Like, that's almost a
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: direct quote, some little fun. By killing him.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: He has no reverence for any of these characters.
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: Well, okay, want to back up with that, though, about reverence.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: A friend of mine, I have a friend of mine,
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: a very close friend, who we get into arguments about
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: movies a lot because that's what you do with your
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: very close friends. We're geeks. Yeah, exactly. And the thing is,
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: we've actually, in recent years, our friendship has been strained
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: to the breaking point because he's liked a large number
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: of films that I have found disgusting. For instance... He
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: loves Transformers, doesn't he? He will defend Transformers. That's it.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: He also maintains that the only reason I didn't like
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: Amazing Spider-Man 2 and Star Trek Into Darkness... is because
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: I've got a problem with jocks. Anyway, this is a
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: very long, long conversation. Going way back. That's not why,
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: that's not why.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: Well, it's because I kept referring to Bro Kirk and
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Bro Peter Parker. Because let's face it, look at those guys.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: It's Bro Kirk and it's Bro Peter Parker. I have
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: no interest in following those characters on their adventures. Because
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: I know that the next thing they're doing is going
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: to a strip club. But anyway, we got into a
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: bit of a row about this movie, of course, and
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: we were talking about it, and he was saying, and
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: we did agree on something that was very important, which
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: is that a lot of people who criticized this film
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: to him had said things like, oh no, they killed
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: Jimmy Olsen, or oh no, Batman uses guns, or oh no, this, that,
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: and the other. And he says, I don't mind this
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: movie being a little different. Now, my rejoinder to that
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: is simply to say, well, likewise, I don't actually think
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: that there's anything wrong with, say, taking Lex Luthor and
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: making him into a modern day geek rich kid. Yeah,
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: that would have been fine. I actually don't have any
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: problem with Batman using guns. In some versions, Batman uses guns.
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: That's a thing. I don't have any problem with killing
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: off Jimmy Olsen. I don't have any problem, really, with
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: killing off Mercy. But my question is, Why? Why do
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: you bring in a character like Jimmy Olsen just to
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: off him in the first scene? He has no value
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: to us in the story. He doesn't add anything. We
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: just see someone whose name we know die.
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: I think it actually works against because the whole plot
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: is to get Superman here to save Lois. Why wouldn't
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: he save Jimmy?
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He gets places very fast.
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: Because if he can hear over there, he'd be like, oh,
• 39:16
  Speaker 6: he just got Jimmy. Okay, well, they better not mess
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: with Lois. Mess with Lois and I'm coming over.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Mr.
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: Deeds.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just doesn't make sense. And also, by the way,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: when you're in the major newspaper and they're like, yeah,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: we don't want any more stories about you. Superman. Yes,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: you do. It's news.
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: What sells your paper?
• 39:33
  Speaker 6: You really?
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: You're not going to? You know, this big thing happened. J.
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: Jonah Jameson is going to print stories about Spider-Man. Exactly.
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, when did?
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: He's going to print stories about Superman. When did that happen?
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Who wouldn't do a story on Superman? That's so stupid. Like,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: the way they portray reporters as a reporter, just going
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: to say, what?
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: You're on sports today. Like there isn't the guy who's
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: always on sports. There's only, there's sports guy.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: You have sports guy.
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: Like you never know what you're writing from day to
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: day at the paper.
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: Well, also, I want to give a moment of sadness
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: for our dear actor who is playing Perry White. I
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: recently re-watched The Matrix, and Morpheus is still as awesome
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: as ever. That movie, by the way, holds.
• 40:08
  Speaker 10: Up so well.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, it totally does. We just re-watched it.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I re-watched that movie, and I'm like, oh,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: my God, I'm so sorry for the next two movies
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: because they ruined my memories of this movie.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: No, don't watch those again. Just watch the Animatrix.
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, I won't. But anyway, why am I
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: blanking on that actor's name?
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Lawrence Fishburne?
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: Lawrence Fishburne. Lawrence Fisherman's a very good actor. Yeah, he's
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: very good. And they picked a great guy to play
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: Perry White if they wanted to play Perry White as
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: a nuanced character, which is entirely possible. But instead they
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: were just like, we're gonna throw you a few lines
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: that don't really make any sense, a few jokes that
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: aren't jokes.
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: Just be angry. See this sledgehammer?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Act like that.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, just act like that and have no personality. And
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: that's kind of the way I felt with almost every
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: scene with Superman.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: Like, we're hanging out with Superman. It's like, this guy
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: doesn't really have a life. Like, when he shows up.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: He takes baths.
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: With Lois. Sometimes, yeah. Well, and the thing is, it's like, oh,
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: so she knows that he's Clark Kent. And we just
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: sort of skipped over that whole thing.
• 41:02
  Speaker 9: Right, right.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: And that's just a thing now.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: Okay. Well, I guess we don't really need to see
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: them have a relationship. Likewise, I guess we don't need
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: to see Clark Kent do anything, even though actually in
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: most of the stories, Superman does in fact care about
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: being Clark Kent. He's like, I like being a reporter.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: I like doing things as Clark Kent. Being Superman is
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: sometimes kind of a drag. But this movie consistently is
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: uninterested in any of its characters as characters. The only
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: time that that is really broken is, I think, due
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: to Ben Affleck's surprisingly strong turn as Batman.
• 41:34
  Speaker 6: I like him. I heard they had beef on set though.
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: I heard, well not, I wouldn't say beef, that's probably
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: too far, but I did hear that Ben Affleck did
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: politely try to push things in different directions. almost constantly.
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: That he was constantly like, can't we do this a
• 41:50
  Speaker 6: little different?
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: Because he's like, I didn't make it work. He's got
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: good instincts. That's the thing.
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: Well, it's got to be rough when you could arguably
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: be called a better director than the person directing you.
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know that it's arguable.
• 42:04
  Speaker 6: I was just trying to be impartial. But yeah, I mean,
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: to have someone.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: That maybe is not as good as you telling you
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: what to do.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Zach, man, I could totally help.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: Who's film has won an Oscar and who's haven't? By
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: the way, that is my first good movie buried in
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: Batman v. Superman, Dawn of Mediocrity, which is the movie
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: about Batman at the end of his life, or excuse me,
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: in advancing middle age. looking at everything that he has done.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: And I love his shots of him wandering past his
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: trophy cases, implying, of course, that so many people, friend
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: and foe, have died. And Wayne Manor is a burned
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: out shell. And he's sleeping with random chicks. Apparently, I
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: assumed it was a prostitute, taking dozens of pills to
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: sleep and everything. And in other words, we're basically looking
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: at this guy who's wondering, was it all worth it?
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: And I got to say, those scenes were actually quite compelling,
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: as well as one of the best scenes in the
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: movie action-wise, the battle between Batman and like 20 different guys. Right, right.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Even though there was a lot of murder and that
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem to make sense, the scene itself was really
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: well done.
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: The scene was very well done.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, what movie was this from?
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I want to see that movie.
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: It's from the video game. That felt so much like
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: the video game, the Arkham Asylum video game. That's exactly
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: how that combat is. It's like you're surrounded by 10 people.
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: bouncing around, taking care of everybody at once. It was very,
• 43:23
  Speaker 6: very much.
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we also saw, I mean, for the first time,
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: a lot of the pathos in that scene. I mean,
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: you're not watching Batman show up and just effortlessly take
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: out 20 guys. No, these are like 20 trained mercenaries.
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: And it's like every punch, you feel it.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: Like he gets stabbed. Like you see him cry out.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: It's like you're watching it and I'm like, oh my God,
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: this guy's been doing this for like 20 years. That's awful.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: It's hurt more when you're in your 40s than they
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: do when you're in your 20s.
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. And so I'm watching that scene and I'm like, Jesus,
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: the sad Batman movie was a movie that I would
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: have totally paid to see.
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: I feel like that is.
• 44:00
  Speaker 7: In the beginning, that became my biggest problem with this
• 44:03
  Speaker 7: is Zack Snyder or writing or whatever, just general structure
• 44:09
  Speaker 7: and storytelling is kind of unclear. I'm like, is it
• 44:13
  Speaker 7: just me or do we get midway in?
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: No, it's not just you.
• 44:15
  Speaker 7: And I'm like, okay, so wait, is he... Batman at
• 44:19
  Speaker 7: this point? He's driving down the street and I'm like,
• 44:21
  Speaker 7: is he not?
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Because that would be the time to put the suit on.
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: I thought this would be.
• 44:26
  Speaker 7: Actually, if we're going to do a totally different thing,
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: interesting alternate universe.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: Version, what if Superman creates Batman? He does this 9-11
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: of his own making, Superman, and.
• 44:38
  Speaker 6: Then Batman's trapped in the middle and he's like, screw
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: that guy.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: I'm going to use all my money.
• 44:43
  Speaker 7: To create a superhero just to take him out because
• 44:46
  Speaker 7: this is bullshit. He's killing my people.
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: This is my planet. I was like, that would be amazing.
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: That would be an interesting story.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: The thing about this movie is that every discussion I
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: have with people, something like that comes out of it. Like, oh,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: but what if.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: They did this?
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, then, oh, I would love that. Why didn't they
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: do that?
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: Speaking of which, that was the second movie that I think,
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: the second hidden movie in this one, which was the
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: Nightmare movie.
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: I'm watching the scenes of the post-apocalyptic world where Batman
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: leads a ragtag group of resistance against the Superman-worshipping Nazi soldiers.
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: I so want to see that. And I'm watching that
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: movie and I'm like, dude, Zack Snyder, you could direct
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: the shit out of that movie.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: That one.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: You could do that one.
• 45:24
  Speaker 7: That five minutes was way more interesting than anything else
• 45:27
  Speaker 7: that we've done.
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: What didn't belong in this movie?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: No, it didn't.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: Because in this movie, it was just.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Like, why are you dreaming again? I'm sorry, but do
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: that as a separate movie.
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, do it as a separate movie.
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: I'll watch that.
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: Because you know what? I remain one of those resolute
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: fans of Sucker Punch. I still think.
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: I was on.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: That set, by the way.
• 45:43
  Speaker 12: Oh, really?
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, his wife tried to tell me it was a
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: feminist movie.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: See, again, that was.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: I was like, look, you want to dress your girls
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: in Sailor Moon costumes? That is fine. You do you.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: But don't tell me that that's.
• 45:54
  Speaker 7: A feminist movie.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: He's one of those, I think.
• 45:56
  Speaker 7: thinks he is feminist and is massively, like, disturbingly wrong
• 46:01
  Speaker 7: with how he's using it.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: Well, I think that, you know, I don't want to
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: play the philosophy card, but this is one of those
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: movies that makes me really tired when people bring up philosophy. Like,
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: when they start talking about God, when they start talking about, like...
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: For instance, they had Neil Tyson on it, and this guy.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, don't hurt Neil deGrasse Tyson.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: And they had Neil Tyson on it, who I... Zach
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: did all he needed to do. I'm actually... He's done
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: enough damage. Believe it or not, I like Neil Tyson
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: a lot as a scientist and as a popularizer of science,
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: but when it comes to him talking about anything philosophical,
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: he will admit himself. He's like, I don't do this.
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: This is not my thing. It's not his area. But
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: they had him, and they had a guy who directed
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: a film called... I know who you're talking about. Yeah, yeah.
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: And he directed Kumare, which is a fantastic mockumentary where
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: he dressed up. He's an Indian guy of Indian descent,
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: and he winds up dressing up and using his grandma's
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: accent and acting like a guru in Southwest United States,
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: and he creates a following, and he films the whole thing.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: It's an amazing movie. Go check it out. It's called Kumare.
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: But anyway, they're in there, and they're talking about what
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: this means now that we have Superman in this. And
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: I was just like, oh, God, just stop. Stop trying
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: to layer philosophical meaning on top of this script. It's
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: just not going to work.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: It doesn't work, and I love Neil deGrasse Tyson, and
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I do not want him used in that way.
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I do not want my Neil deGrasse Tyson to
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: be used. There is a way to do that.
• 47:23
  Speaker 7: He, as a character, does represent a much bigger ideal, almost.
• 47:27
  Speaker 7: So I think he works in that way, but they're
• 47:30
  Speaker 7: not writing it.
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: They're dumbing it down way too much. And also, almost always,
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: the philosophical... implications of films are more interesting when people
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: aren't trying to talk about them.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: In the movie. Let me explain this thing to you. Well,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: if Neil deGrasse Tyson, if he was on there explaining
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Superman's powers and how there.
• 47:48
  Speaker 6: Would be collateral damage because he can't control this or.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense, but not philosophy. It just wasn't... No, no, no.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: It's not a good use of Neil deGrasse Tyson.
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: Not a good use, yeah, yeah. So that's our first,
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: we need a stamp for that. So this film features
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: an unfair use of Neil deGrasse Tyson, too much collateral damage,
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: inappropriate use of Zack Snyder, i.e. there was Zack Snyder. Yeah,
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: David Goyer wrote the script, so I mean, we just
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: keep going down the line.
• 48:18
  Speaker 7: I mean, the reason I came up with that offshoot
• 48:20
  Speaker 7: version of A Better Movie is because they badly structured it.
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: I'm like, you can't tell at that point.
• 48:27
  Speaker 7: If he's already Batman because he's not doing any, he's
• 48:30
  Speaker 7: just a Bruce Wayne guy driving his fancy Bruce Wayne car.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, and his surrogate daddy's mad that he's
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: not married.
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: And the whole, it jumps ahead like two years. And
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: I'm like, actually, I kind of loved Alfred like being like, well,
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: I guess you're not going to reproduce anytime soon. Put
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: this away.
• 48:44
  Speaker 6: Wasn't that joke straight out of the comic though? I
• 48:46
  Speaker 6: believe that was like right out.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: Of the comic.
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: But again, that's a, that's an element that I liked
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: as well. It's like the, the old Bruce Wayne movie.
• 48:53
  Speaker 7: But it jumps ahead like two years and I'm like
• 48:55
  Speaker 7: so did he just in these two years decide to
• 48:58
  Speaker 7: become Batman as an old guy?
• 49:00
  Speaker 6: And all this happened, but yeah, you might be correct
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: I mean in a sense they don't make clear if
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: he's Batman or not for that So you could argue
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: those two years were becoming Batman.
• 49:09
  Speaker 7: When Alfred finally it towards the end of the movie
• 49:11
  Speaker 7: goes these last 20 years 20 years Metropolis.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: And Gotham are just another.
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: Other side of the bay now, apparently. You can see
• 49:22
  Speaker 6: the cities from each other now. It's not Chicago and
• 49:25
  Speaker 6: New York now. Apparently, it's Manhattan and Times Square.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: And Jersey City. So can I pitch an idea? I
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: want to pitch to you guys a conversation that didn't happen.
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: This is a favorite thing for me to understand how
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: films happened. So in this conversation, Zack Snyder sits down
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: with the board and says, okay, guys, I'm ready to
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: make my next Superman movie, and I want to make
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: it based on the Doomsday script and everything like that.
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: They say, great, great, that sounds great, but we want
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: Batman in it. And he says, okay, you sure, Batman?
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: Because I kind of have this Superman story plotted out.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: He's like, no, no, we really think you ought to
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: make a Batman movie. I mean, it still has Superman
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: in it, but it should be a Batman movie. Batman sells.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: Batman sells. Batman makes money. So he's like, okay, yeah, sure,
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: I can rewrite it. It'll be Batman v.
• 50:10
  Speaker 8: Superman.
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: There we go. And then they come to him a
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: few months later when he's, just getting ready to cast
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: the thing and shoot, you know, he's got all these
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: scenes lined out. And they say, oh yeah, and we
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: want Wonder Woman in it too because we're deciding we
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: don't want to risk having another bomb or having another
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: critical flop. We want to just sort of front load
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: everything in our franchise into the one movie and then
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: we'll space out everything else that happens after and he's like,
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: So wait, you want Wonder Woman and, oh yeah, and
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: The Flash and Cyborg and Aquaman.
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: Basically, they were like, we looked at the weekend returns
• 50:41
  Speaker 7: for Age of Ultron. We want that money too. So
• 50:44
  Speaker 7: could we just jam everything?
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: If you could just put a graphic that says, coming
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: in 2018. Or have Wonder Woman turn around, smile at
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: the camera, and say, My solo movie, 2017.
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: Just wink at the camera. You're a stinger at all.
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: The fact that you didn't use a stinger and that
• 50:59
  Speaker 6: you chose to force it on. Yeah, why wouldn't you
• 51:01
  Speaker 6: just use it? Why couldn't the reveal of the disc
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: have been at the very end? Why couldn't somehow the
• 51:07
  Speaker 6: whole information that they were trying to get get lost
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: in a shuffle due to fight and at the end
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: is Bruce finally sitting down putting that in and being like, Aquaman, Cyborg, Flash.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: That would have been a much better way to handle it,
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: for sure.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: But the logos were nicely designed by Lex Luthor.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was going to say, luckily Lex Luthor has
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: already branded all these superheroes.
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we could use those. I mean, I know it's
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: for Lex, but whatever.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: They look kind of cool.
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: His marketing team, I mean, it's top-down. Seriously. But I
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: love the idea, because this implies, of course, that it's
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: not just Lex that knows about this stuff. It's also
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: his graphic design guy. The people who edited this footage
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: and put together these files.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: He sent them all into the Senate building. That's what happened.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: There you go. That explains that scene.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. If you're going to start a
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Justice League, why would you, and I did not come
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: up with this, actually my boyfriend was talking about this,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: but why would you start it with two murderers? Exactly.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: Because he's Zack Snyder. He loves murdering people.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: That's not justice.
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: As much as Zack Snyder keeps defending this darker tone,
• 52:07
  Speaker 6: I think he forgets that the S on Superman's chest
• 52:10
  Speaker 6: means hope. It stands for hope.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: There's no hope in this film. I think they invented
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: that line about the S meaning hope in the last
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: film because they wanted to do everything they could to
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: not have Superman just put his name on his chest.
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: You know, they wanted to explain it away as much
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: as possible, so they over-designed the S, which still looks
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: kinda cool to me.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: You guys, it's not an S.
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: It's not an S.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: It's totally not an S.
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: And then they lampshade it.
• 52:34
  Speaker 6: Can we talk about the belt? Look, we call it Hope, and.
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: Then lampshade the fact that we're calling it Hope. Then
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: we get away scot-free, and I'm like, dude. look, I
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: know the real Scott Free, Mr. Miracle, okay.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: And I, by the way, I was on the set
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: of Man of Steel.
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: So I talked to Snyder and Goyer and all that.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: Why did you not tackle him and be like, just
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: stop it. Just Wonder Woman his ass.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I hadn't seen it by then. But no, and there
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: was a lot of talk about that. Like, no, we
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: want to, it's not an S.
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: No, it's really not an S.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: And all of us are looking at each other like,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: It can be an S. It's fine.
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: Why is it such a damaging thing for Superman to
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: have an S on his chest?
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Lots of people have monogrammed things.
• 53:11
  Speaker 6: It's okay.
• 53:13
  Speaker 7: Again, he's one of the few superheroes that isn't really, like,
• 53:16
  Speaker 7: as a superhero, he's not great.
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: As an ideal, he's great.
• 53:20
  Speaker 7: Like, he works in the comics because he was, like,
• 53:23
  Speaker 7: one of the first superheroes. And, like, he is what
• 53:25
  Speaker 7: they built this whole idea around of, like, being noble
• 53:29
  Speaker 7: and saving people and, like, you know, putting others before you.
• 53:32
  Speaker 7: So it's like, he really does sort of stand for something, literally.
• 53:36
  Speaker 7: It can be an S, because he stands for being
• 53:39
  Speaker 7: a Superman.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, and also, but you know what I feel like?
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like they were like, you know, you guys
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: over at Marvel with Captain America, you kind of made
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: his suit work, because you kind of made it like
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: a propaganda joke, and so we're going to try to
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: make it cool, too. So it means hope, you guys.
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: And this is the key difference, in my mind, is
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: that one thing Marvel has mastered is the art of
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: taking something that seems firmly grounded in our world today
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: and bringing it into this much crazier, larger world. One
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: of my favorite scenes in the entire Marvel universe is...
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: is Captain America's fighting Red Skull, and suddenly they knock
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: the cosmic cube, and for a brief moment, there's this
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: enormous sea of stars all around it, and of course,
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: we've seen Thor, so we know this is like alien tech,
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: and these are other dimensions and stuff, but the fact
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: that it's happening in the middle of this World War
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: II pulp action movie, just elevates that movie so much.
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: It's like, oh my God, there's something so much bigger
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: going on in this movie. That's the theme in Marvel movies.
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: There's always something bigger going on. And they understand the
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: bigger plan.
• 54:39
  Speaker 6: Well, at least in this movie, it does not.
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: Well, they had a bigger plan.
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: The fact that they actually had one.
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: Well, and this is the thing, is that DC instead
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: tries to take ideas that are much bigger and tries
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: to dumb them down into something which people who, frankly,
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: aren't ready to be led into that area can just
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: kind of accept.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: In other words, it's not that they're making, like Marvel does,
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: our world more like the superhero world. That's what the
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: Marvel movies do. Instead, they're trying to make the superhero
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: world more like our world.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And if you think about the way they
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: handle collateral damage in the Marvel universe, TV and cinematic,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: their collateral damage shows up in Jessica Jones, where one
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: woman is like, hey, this stuff happened to my family.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: I don't like you. And now Civil War, they're going
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: to get, hey, you know what? You guys have been
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: making kind of a mess. So we're just going to get...
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: They had it sort of thread through, but they're trying
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: to catch up so much. They're trying to stuff so
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: much in there. They're like, we have to make it
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: as stupid and simple as possible if we want to
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: stuff all this.
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: Stuff in there.
• 55:35
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of contradiction in the Marvel Universe, too,
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: because you have to remember... In the first Avengers movie,
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: they were going to nuke New York City. And Tony
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: Stark pushed that nuke up into the portal, but they
• 55:45
  Speaker 6: were about to nuke New York City.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe we don't do that.
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: That's massive collateral damage.
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: A little bit. But again, that's the government. You can't
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: blame superheroes. It's just dumb government activities.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: No, no, but it's specific people.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: be sure.
• 55:59
  Speaker 7: I mean, that was one of my favorite parts of
• 56:00
  Speaker 7: that first Daredevil season was the fact that they're just rebuilding.
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: The city that's been decimated.
• 56:07
  Speaker 7: And they really take responsibility for what they did in
• 56:12
  Speaker 7: their previous outing as Marvel.
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: They're just like, yeah, a lot of people got hurt.
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: A lot of the city is destroyed.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they do it in a way that's not heavy-handed. Like,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: you know about the larger universe, and you know the
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: effects that it's had, but you don't hear a lot of,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, the green guy. Okay, okay, cool.
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: It's pretty subtle, which we don't get in this movie. No,
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: they do a great job.
• 56:30
  Speaker 9: Not subtle.
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: They do a great job of managing, and again, Jessica
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: Jones is another great example. When he looks at her
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: and doesn't say... oh, you're a superhero or you're an Avenger.
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: He says, you're one of them. Because let's face it,
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: from the point of view of us, like if we
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: saw Thor coming out, it was like, oh shit, it's
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: one of them. We don't want to be in their way.
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: Or they refer to the Battle of New York as
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: the incident. Use all this sort of hedge speak to
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: sort of get around it. But also makes it seem
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: very real world.
• 56:56
  Speaker 7: It is like, eventually we just get to the point
• 56:58
  Speaker 7: of talking about it. How many times do we reference,
• 57:01
  Speaker 7: you know, like 9-11?
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you think about that, people say, oh, you
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: remember like the thing that happened in New York. Like
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: you don't necessarily, because using those words makes people go,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: oh God.
• 57:09
  Speaker 7: Remember the tragedy of, you know, we don't speak that way.
• 57:12
  Speaker 7: We're just like, well, you know, 9-11 happened and then
• 57:14
  Speaker 7: all this, you know. So I'm like, we just reference
• 57:16
  Speaker 7: it normally.
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: Well, and so that's a good example of how Marvel
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: does a great job of jumping still back and forth
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: between those two worlds. Sure, we can have a Thor
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: movie where everyone's talking like gods and riding around like
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: Vikings just because, by the way, I'm one of the
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: only people who likes the Dark World for that reason.
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: I did like the Dark World.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: But I do love Thor.
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: Well, I like the character Thor. I don't like his silhouette.
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: I think that that movie had a lot that was missing,
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: but I loved the way everything looked. It looked awesome.
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: But anyway, and I love my science fantasy. I can't
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: get enough of it. So Vikings in space, I'm never
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: going to object. But pulling away. So we can have that.
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: movie where people are talking about epic things and acting
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: epic because that's just kind of the way they are.
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: And then we can zoom down to the Jessica Jones
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: level where from the point of view of ordinary humans,
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: you're one of them, the incident happened, and since then
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: everything's been really scary. And so we can understand both
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: sides of it. I think that's brilliant on their part.
• 58:09
  Speaker 7: To be able to switch back and forth and to
• 58:12
  Speaker 7: give personality to all that's happening.
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: Personal responses.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Like, DC handles their TV universe very, very well. And
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: so when you think about what they're trying to do
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: here and all the critical panning they're getting, you're like,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: just let the CW people do it. They're doing fine.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: I won't lie. I'm actually not a huge fan of
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: the CW shows, but they have done a very good
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: job in terms of building a shared universe.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: And they've done a very good job of being very
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: casual about building that shared universe.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: And it's a lighter tone, even when it's not.
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: Lighter tone, yeah.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Like Marvel.
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: So, yeah. And, I mean, for me, again, the DC
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: model for adaptation will always be the DC animated universe
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: in terms of, like, nailing these characters.
• 58:54
  Speaker 6: I can't wait for Hush.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: Watch that 10-minute trailer for Hush, dude.
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: It's going to be so good. That and Young Justice,
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: which I'm always sorry didn't get another season. I just
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: finished re-watching it recently.
• 59:05
  Speaker 6: But it might. Have you heard the rumor?
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: Oh, God, I hope so.
• 59:07
  Speaker 6: I heard the rumor. Netflix brought up, put the two
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: seasons back up.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Up.
• 59:10
  Speaker 6: I watched both seasons to help it out. They said
• 59:12
  Speaker 6: they were going to check the traffic on the seasons,
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: and Netflix themselves might sponsor season three. That's good, because
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: I'm so glad I chose now to re-watch Young Justice.
• 59:21
  Speaker 7: Netflix is kind of saving these ideas.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: They teased the dark side at the very end, and
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: I was like, no. Now if only they'll go back
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: and bring back some of my favorite B-list and C-list
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: 80s cartoons. Like Jason and the Wheeled Warriors.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Battle of the Planets.
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: Oh, the planets, yes.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Please bring that back.
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: We'll do a weird Americanized version. It'll be dumb. Everything
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: Americanized is dumb. Okay, so.
• 59:45
  Speaker 6: It's what we do good.
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: So anyway, I'll jump ahead and say, okay, so the last,
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: so we can talk about her a little bit more.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: Last good movie that was sort of buried in here
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: was the Wonder Woman movie. Yeah. Uh, One, watching Wonder
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: Woman fight a Balrog. I don't care if you call
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: it Doomsday.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: It's a Balrog.
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: It's a Balrog. Fire is falling off of him. He's
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: breathing fire.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Fly, you fools.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: That should have been Batman's last line. Fly, you fools.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: I said that in the theater, actually.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: Well, actually, I guess it would be Superman. Oh, God,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: what a dick thing for Superman to say.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Fly.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 9: Oh, wait.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, you can.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, sorry.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 11: Oops.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: But yeah, so every time Gal Gadot was on screen,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: I was like, wow, you're intriguing. Not just because she's
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: a stunningly beautiful woman and whoever their dressmaker they got
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: for her.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, fantastic.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: Those dresses were pretty cool.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: I do want to just say this about those dresses.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: They were very revealing, very low-cut dresses, not sexualized at all.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: They were kind of classy versions.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: Gal Gadot looked perfect.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: Like, she slunk, but it was slinking like a panther.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: Or like, you know, some sort of dangerous forest cat.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Like somebody who's trained as a fighter. There's a way
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: that fighters walk in that.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 7: She's Wonder Woman, so she can still be a woman
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 7: and be fine with that.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she looked fantastic.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 7: She doesn't have to dress like a guy.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: Well, and you saw these great moments. I mean, she and,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: even though their dialogue was crap, of course, watching her
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: and Ben Affleck work together is like, oh, crap.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Great chemistry.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, fantastic chemistry. There was a moment, I swear, in
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: the film where Ben Affleck sees her and he kind
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: of straightens as though he's like, like you said, she's
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: a fighter, as though he's sizing her up and kind
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: of walks towards her like, all right, sparring partner time.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: It didn't even look like, ooh, hot chick. It looked like, oh,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: I better stand up straight or she's gonna kick my ass. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: There was a sort of a mutual like, you know what, okay,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: let's look at each other eye level here for a second. Like,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: you know, she had that going on and so watching
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: her in her brief scenes, then watching her when she
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: finally shows up as Wonder Woman and I'm like, You know,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: it just blows because she's a great character. She was
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: inserted for a very brief time in this movie. Forcibly inserted. Oh, God. Well,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: as much as I would love to talk about Gal
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: Gadot being forcibly inserted.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Well done.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no. Unfortunately, it was an unpleasant experience for all involved.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: But nevertheless, she made it look awesome because I think
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: she's obviously got a great talent. I don't think I've
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: actually seen her in anything else.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: I have seen her in Fast Five, and I interviewed
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: her actually in Brazil for that movie.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: That's why when her casting was announced, I was like, oh,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: I like her. And everyone was like, who's she? Like,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: she was in the Israeli army. So, like, you can
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: say that, oh, she's really skinny. But, yes, in the
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: Israeli army.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 6: Well, she was Miss Israel, too, though. I mean, she
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 6: was Miss Israel.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: Oh, wow, okay.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but no, she clearly has chops and talent and
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: everything like that. So another reason I'm looking forward to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: the Wonder Woman movie is because I'm hoping that they
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: will give– I'm hoping that they will give her character
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: half the range that she's already demonstrated in the handful
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: of scenes that she got here. And I hope that
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: she won't continually be treated as the third wheel to
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: help pad out the Batman.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: You mean like when Wonder Woman's introduced and she was
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: the Justice Society of America's secretary?
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. Justice Society of America. Talk about things I miss.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: The good old days.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 6: I also think Wonder Woman's the only time that the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 6: music seemed relevant. Yes, the score was a mess. Han
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 6: Zimmer wrote the most boring thing in the world. You
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 6: cannot remember.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: But really loud and boring.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 7: I'm working against Zack Snyder's explosion.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: If I drown this out, no one will hear the dialogue.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: At one point, like Superman's flying, you hear the choir
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: behind him. I'm like, I feel like I'm watching a
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: bad Final Fantasy movie.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 6: It was like from the very beginning when the credits
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 6: were going on, you know, in a set music by
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 6: Han Zimmer and Junkie XL. I remember kind of knew
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: it was like Junkie XL.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: That's promising, actually.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 6: And I remember kind of nudging a friend. I was like,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 6: that'll be the fight scenes. And then like, I mean
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 6: almost on cue when he's looking at the pictures. It
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 6: wasn't even like a fight scene when Bruce Wayne pulls
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 6: out the picture. It's like the drum starts going, this
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: bass beat starts picking up and it's like even though
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 6: it's just him drinking coffee looking at a picture, it's
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 6: already like get excited, get excited, it's Wonder Woman, it's
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 6: about to happen. And then the same thing when she
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 6: drops in at the end, that same music kicks in.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 6: And that was the only time the music mattered and
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 6: I'm a big, big, Music, to me, can make something
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 6: great to me. Something that's mediocre, the music can make
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 6: it great to me. So when you have no presence
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 6: of music, they should have themes. These are characters, you
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 6: should have a theme. Darth Vader has a theme. Superheroes
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 6: should have a theme.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: People are like, okay, well, they played this particular theme
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: when Rey showed up. Does this mean she's related to
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: this person? You know those themes. You know them intrinsically.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: And this was such a mess that normally if I
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: notice a score, I'm going, oh, wow, that's really beautiful.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Or that totally fits. Or, ooh, it upped the excitement.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: This time I was like, oh, turn it down. Get
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: off my lawn.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, everything was competing with everything else. Again, in that
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: Balrog scene.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: That's never going to not be funny, by the way.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: Thank you. It's good to know I've got one joke
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: that works. But now, so you're watching them, and again,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: want to draw attention to the fact that that scene
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: still doesn't make any sense. He plots for Batman to
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: kill Superman, even though he does nothing to help Batman
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: except secretly get him some kryptonite because reasons. I don't
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: know why. Lex Luthor can't show up at Bruce Wayne's
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: house and be like, by the way, here's a bunch
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: of kryptonite.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: I figure you know what to do. I'll see you later.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: But anyway, so he tricks, quote unquote, Batman blackmails Superman
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: into fighting each other in the most convoluted yet at
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: the same.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 6: Time stupid plot. What was his connection to Bruce Wayne?
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: How did... He has no connection.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 6: Why was Batman there on that night at that moment
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 6: waiting for it? That's what I didn't understand.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: How does Batman know to be here?
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 6: He was there to plant that Mission.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: Impossible bug in Lex's computer system For reasons. I don't
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: actually know. I guess to get the stuff for the
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: next few movies, I don't remember very well. But anyway,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: the trailers for the next few movies, he had to
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: go and get them from Lex.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: And then give them to Wonder Woman.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 7: We have to make sure everybody sees these. Lex is
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 7: hoarding them.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: That's true. Otherwise, they might not be sufficiently terrified.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: How am I going to know how to make symbols
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: for them? Someone else already did it.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: Oh, we'll totally go get that. Oh, good, good, good.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 6: That's why he was there.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: I should have gotten Lex to design the Batcave. But anyway,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: so Batman then is fighting Superman. But meanwhile, Lex has gotten,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: has managed to figure out a way to con his
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: way into the alien spaceship, which he is the only
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: person who could figure out how to open using the
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: little fingerprint things from Zod.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: Using his kryptonite scalpel. God, just talking about this movie
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: makes me feel like it's stupid. So he gets inside,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: and then the robot is like, oh, hey, who are you?
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: And he's like, I'm the boss now. And the robot's like,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: you sure are.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, wait.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: Later on, he's like, you shouldn't be doing that. It's
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: against the law. And he says, well, no, it isn't.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: And the robot's like, okay, that's cool.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 7: Kryptonian programming is dumb.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: I assume.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: They have problems with hackers.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: So I assume that that was the explanation that Lex Luthor,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: that we use for Lex Luthor knowing how to create Doomsday. Although, again,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: why he wouldn't just resurrect a fully thinking and conscious
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: Zod as opposed to making him a mutant with his
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: own blood. I don't know why that was a necessity. What?
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: Or why that seemed like a good idea. When the
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: computer tells you this will make an abomination, I'm not sure.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: I like those because my daddy hit me.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 6: What?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: Okay, sure. What was the end result for him to
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: even have this? Like, what was the good side? Yeah,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: I guess. Like, just destroy for the sake of destroying?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 6: But I mean, he wasn't gonna have control of it.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 6: What was the end game? Like, say it does beat
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 6: Batman and Superman and Wonder Woman. Well, now what? Now
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 6: it's just running loose.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: But Batman and Superman have never seen each other before.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: No, no, no. They hung out in two different boroughs
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: in the same city.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Well, it's sort of like when you live in New York.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: Like Batman's from Staten Island.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: I never go above 23rd Street. That's why they've never run.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: Into each other. That's where it falls off, yeah.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: Subway, I don't wanna take the subway.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: God.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: Okay, but yeah, no, so this whole thing, so they're
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: fighting the Balrog in this very last scene, and you're
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: literally watching, you're watching the face of the Balrog, I
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: thought we were past this, and the energy waves are
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: coming out from it, and they're always loud, and everything
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: is exploding around it, and that's always loud, and you
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: have the Hans Zimmer score that's like going 20 decibels,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: or whatever, like above whatever my hearing range is at.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: And meanwhile, buildings are falling down, and then in all
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: that you hear, and that's Lois Lane saying, Superman, come
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: help me, I'm dying.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Well, because now his hearing's working again.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: Super selective super hearing. And I swear to God, if
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: Zack Snyder was sitting here, or David Goyer, better yet,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: you'd be sitting here and be like, so why is
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: all this? And I feel like they would be the
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: kind of people who would give the answer, guys, it's
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: a comic book movie.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah!
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 11: Yeah!
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: That makes me crazy when people say that.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: Me too.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Because there are other comic book movies that are awesome.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: Yes. Awesome.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: And this, not awesome.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 7: It doesn't matter where it comes from. It's about you
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 7: making a good movie out of it.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. Yeah.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah. That's... Yeah. I don't mind that we have fantasy
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: in my films. I love having fantasy in my films,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: partly because reality doesn't interest me much at this stage
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: in my life. But and I say that in the
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: non infantilized way. But but nevertheless, you know, I look
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: at I look at a movie like this and I
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: say it's not about it being fantasy or not being fantasy.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: It's about me being able to believe in it.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: You know? And ultimately, that's the goal of pretty much
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: any movie. So if you're asking me, oh, well, you know,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: hand wave explanation, then essentially what you're telling me is
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: you don't believe in your movie.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: And you don't care that anyone else does. Because, like,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: you look at X-Men, like, Days of Future Past.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Like, all right, I'm willing to buy that you've reset everything.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to buy all of it.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: And we're back at the original movies already.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Because you made it work. You made it make sense.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: I buy Lord of the Rings because you made it
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: make sense. I don't buy The Hobbit because... Physics don't
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: exist all of a sudden.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: Although they do have war rams. They do have war rams.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: And that made me so happy. And the war pig
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: and the.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Guy with the hammer. Yeah, that's true. I like war pigs.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: That movie, I will say that, brief tangent, that I
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: actually liked the Hoppet movies more as they went on
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: and got more and more distant from the book. Because
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: eventually I was just like, okay.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Like, this is not the.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: Never mind. They're not even... They've subverted every single thing
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: the book tries to say. And now we're just in
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: this cartoon... where we've got a dwarf riding a war
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: pig with a giant hammer, speaking in a Scottish accent,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: and I'm kind of down with it.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: And you can shoot the arrow through your son's shoulder,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: except it magically doesn't hurt him at all.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: And that's a thing.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: And you can see five miles away to the target.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: I'm going to spend a lot of time with this weird,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: random cross-dressing minor character with lots of money. Sure, okay.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: This is the way I'll spend my afternoon. Okay. So
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: where do we go from here? Sorry, we messed you
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: up a little.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: It's intermission time. So how about taking a break? Get
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: out and stretch a little and relax before the show
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: begins again. And why not make it refreshment time, too?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: We have lots of tasty, delicious treats waiting for you
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: at the refreshment center.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: This episode is sponsored by World of Leathercraft, specializing in
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 5: handmade leathercraft items with a specific nod to the geeky genres.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: Whether you're looking for a wallet, purse, keychain, bracelet, money clip,
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  Speaker 5: luggage tag, book cover, phone sleeve, laptop bag, whatever it is,
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  Speaker 5: with genre themes like Star Wars, Doctor Who, Supernatural, Cowboy Bebop,
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• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: aren't messing around with store-bought junk. Your fandom runs deep
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: because you're carrying a handmade work of art. And since
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: you're a Movie Meltdown listener, you get a special deal.
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  Speaker 5: Just use coupon code MELTDOWN25 at checkout and get 25%
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  Speaker 5: off all orders over $ 50. Plus free shipping on everything.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 5: So just go to worldofleathercraft.com and take a look at
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: all the geek-friendly products they have to offer.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 12: Boys and girls, your attention please. Presenting a new exciting
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 12: radio program featuring the thrilling adventures of an amazing and
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 12: incredible personality. Faster than an airplane. More powerful than a locomotive.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: Impervious to bullets.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 6: Up in the sky, look.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: It's a bird.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 8: It's a plane.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 7: It's Superman.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: And now, Superman.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 12: A being no larger than an ordinary man, but possessed
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 12: of powers and abilities never before realized on Earth. Able
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 12: to leap into the air an eighth of a mile
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 12: at a single bound. Hurdle a 20-story building with ease.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 12: race a high-powered bullet to its target, lift tremendous weights
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 12: and rend solid steel in his bare hands as though
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 12: it were paper. Superman, a strange visitor from a distant planet,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 12: champion of the oppressed, physical marvel extraordinary who has sworn
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 12: to devote his existence on Earth to helping those in need.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 10: High atop one of the hills which ring the teeming
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 10: metropolis of Gotham City, a large house rears its bulk against.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: The dark sky.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 10: Outwardly, there's nothing to distinguish this house from many others, but...
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 10: Deep in the cavernous basements of this house, in a
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 10: chamber hewn from the living rock of the mountain, is
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 10: the strange, dimly lighted, mysteriously secret, Bat's Cave. Hidden headquarters
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 10: of America's number one crime fighter, Batman.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, Batman.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 10: Clad in the somber costume which has struck terror to
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 10: the heart of many a swaggering denizen of the underworld. Batman,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 10: who even now is pondering the plans of a new
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 10: assault against the forces of crime.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 12: Hello, this is Tom Cain, the voice of the professor
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 12: from The Powerpuff Girls.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: And you're listening to Movie Meltdown.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 12: Oh, I love it so.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 11: Oh, no.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: What if I don't get my official Red Raider Carbine
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Action 200 Shot Rage Metal Air Rifle?
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: It's part of your problem, you know.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: You haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 10: In the movies.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: And now, on with the show.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 11: The Powerpuff Girls.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: Check out the lyrics.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 9: Darkness No parents.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: Continue darkness More darkness, get it? The opposite of light
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: Black hole Curtains drawn In the basement Middle of the night.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 9: The Scottish accent.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: Reminded me.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: That's the one thing I have issues with.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 13: What is.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: Wonder Woman's accent? I mean, in the real world, I
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: know what it is.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: She's from Themyscira.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 4: No, I was going to say Themyscira. That's her Themyscira accent. Yeah,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: she's supposed to be, Themyscira is the land of the Amazons.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: And it is, I think it is a place where
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: men only exist as breeding material, pretty much.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: Well, it depends what version of it. I actually just
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: wrote a whole big long thing about Wonder Woman for
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: Birth Movies Death Magazine. But so, no, it depends. And
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: just like they've retconned her origin story, originally she was
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: made from clay by her mother and imbued with goddess energy. So,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: And then the New 52 changed it so she's a half-god,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: so demigod, because her father is Zeus. So it does
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: sort of take away her female origins and give her that.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: But see, that doesn't bother me. That doesn't bother me
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: at all. She's a demigod. Okay, cool. So that means
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: she's more powerful than Superman, and that totally makes sense.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: Or as powerful as Superman. So no, that's fine. But she...
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: So we don't know what version they're using here in
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: terms of... Because sometimes they would swim to sailors out
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: at sea. Sometimes... They would show up there. Sometimes Themyscira
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: was blown up. Sometimes they rode kangaroos. I'm not kidding.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: They rode kangaroos.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: Makes me happy.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: Where's that scene at?
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: Because apparently someone near Australia and yeah.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 7: That would happen in that future post-apocalyptic world. Her troops
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 7: would come in on kangaroos.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, I would watch this movie so much. I was
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: going to say, ways to make this movie awesome. First off,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: Aquaman brings the spear up out of the water and
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: he joins in the fight. The other one is Wonder
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 4: Woman's leading her kangaroo detachment to fight two troops of kangaroos.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: I somehow think from the first set pictures and the
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: first official picture that there may not be kangaroos in
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: the World War I. Damn it.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: Tragedy.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: I know. I kind of want to see that. I
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: hope there's some silly nod to it somewhere.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: Well, and it is important. One thing I do hope
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 4: they go into is I do hope they go into
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: the Themysciran Women's Society.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: Well, it looks like they're going to because she's apparently
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: trained by her mother and her two aunts.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: So I think that we're definitely going to see that.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how much they can how
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: much they'll put there and how much they'll put in
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: a World War II movie, because I don't know how
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: much actual origin story there'll be. It might be her
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: training rather than her birth, so.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 7: My question still is, though, is that, does that language
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 7: sound like what is now.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: I guess, her Israeli accent?
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Right, well.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 7: Are we claiming that that is what the land of.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: Her people sounds like?
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: Well, we haven't, yeah, because, I mean, the other people
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: in this, her mom and her two aunts, we haven't
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: heard them speak yet.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: It'll be, but I mean, then we had something like
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: Gods of Egypt, where the Scottish guy is the god,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: and then he has a Scottish accent, but the other
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: guys don't. One's from Game of Thrones. I don't.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: I have not watched that movie, but I will. No,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 4: do not. Actually, I will.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, oh.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: Sometime late at night, I will.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Watch the movie.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: Get really drunk first. It'll help.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: I actually love the idea of a crazy, stupid, ancient
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: Egypt god battle movie. People were all like, oh, but
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 4: it's like too many white people in it, and I
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: kind of want to say, and there's also robots made
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: out of Egyptian gold.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: There are giant metal snake things.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure they're trying to adequately capture ancient Egyptian
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: civilization here. Not with the Scottish accent. I'm pretty sure
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: I'm watching a Flash Gordon rewrite, and I'm OK with that.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, there are a lot of beaded dresses in that. Yeah,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: but I mean, I think if they don't explain her accent,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: that'll be a little bit weird. But I mean, because
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: her accent's sort of, It works in Batman v Superman
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: because it makes her slightly other. And she is not
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: from here.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 7: Mine was only just because, again, assuming she is a
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 7: demigod and she's been around. She's spent a good hundred
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 7: some odd years either in this country or away from that.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 7: She seems like she should have picked up either an
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 7: American accident or.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: If she's trying to hide. Because she left World War I.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: We know that she has been away from the world
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: for a long time. Maybe she was hanging out in Israel.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 4: My theory going is that I hope that, and again,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 4: we have no evidence one way or the other, but
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 4: unless we want to say that Wonder Woman is just
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: like thousands of years old and doesn't age, which would
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: fit with the made of clay theory or what have you,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: and that's fine too. But one version of that idea
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: that I've always liked is that Themyscira is one of
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: those places on Earth that's kind of not really quite
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: in this plane.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: Right, it's kind of out of time.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. So sort of like fairy realm, she can
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 4: go away, and she's gone for like 10 years, and
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: it's actually like 100 years later.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's certainly possible too.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: And that's the version I would like, because I've always,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: I like the idea of Themyscira, I like the idea
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: that there is, again, going back to the DC animated universe, Like,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 4: occasionally Wonder Woman has to be, like, her mom's representative in, like,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 4: the UN and stuff for Themyscira. And essentially her response
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 4: is always like, well, we don't usually have much to
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: do with the world of men. She's always very pointed
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: about the world of men.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: Men's world.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah. But, you know, since what you do affects us, like,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 4: you know, if you step out of line, we may
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: be forced to seek military action.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 4: You know, or something like that. In other words, like,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: so there's this.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: I'll use my invisible plane. I really hope they don't.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: They can't make that work.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: It would be fun if she started.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: But you can see her. That's the problem. That was
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: the problem with her invisible plane is that there's just
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: this woman just sitting.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 4: Seated woman at 40,000 feet. My boy. She looks fine.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like what's the point of having the invisible plane then?
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: You can also see the white outline. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: But like what's the point if you're trying to hide?
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 6: Did you see the robot chicken where Superman flies up
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 6: to her? She's sitting there. She's really in the bathroom.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 6: She's not actually flying.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He's like, hey, what's going on?
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 6: She's like, this is actually the bathroom.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, Lord.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 7: It would have been fun if she started using terminology
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 7: and phrases from World War I.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: Like, this is the last time I checked in in
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: this country. We still sit.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 7: So she could hang out with Captain America. And they'd
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 7: both be kind of culturally out of the loop.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: You get me, Cap. You get me.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: Another thing I hope that they do is, they did
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: make a reference with the gauntlets. I've actually never been
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 4: a huge fan of the reflective gauntlets that can block bullets.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: It seems like a lot of work for two little
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 4: struts of metal.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 5: She's wonderful.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 4: Well, my thought is I hope they kind of extend
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 4: that quality to the rest of her armaments. Like it
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: would be kind of cool if, you know what, all
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 4: of her armor is pretty good at deflecting stuff.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 6: Like a bit of a vibranium thing going on.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she's got this vibe.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 6: Like the whole outfit kind of repels attack.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: Exactly. And so that, and also she's got like an
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: awesome shield now, which I'm down with again.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: I got to hold a replica of that, and the
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: sword was so cool.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: I want to just follow you around.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 6: Are they going to put the bird on it though?
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 6: Did you notice it didn't have the bird on it?
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 6: I thought that was strange.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 4: It was a plain shield.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, it does sort of make, I mean,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: if her origins are based on Greek mythology, it kind
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: of makes sense that it looks like that.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 6: I do think it's a little ironic that, you know,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 6: Zack Snyder's over here, like, butchering these movies, and the
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 6: one that's going to be the closest to 300 is
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 6: going to be somebody else. Like, he should go back
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 6: in and do another Spartan movie, and do the Wonder
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 6: Woman movie, and do the action. Don't let him touch.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: The Wonder Woman movie.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 4: I kind of don't want to be doing that either.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 6: No, I mean, I'm ironic. I'm just saying that it's ironic.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 6: It's a Spartan movie over here, and you're not doing
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 6: anything with it.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: No, man, I'll say, you know, Zack Snyder, for me, okay,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: so my friend, whom I get into arguments with, that
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 4: you've heard me mention, really, he's my arch nemesis that
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: I keep in touch with on the phone just to
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 4: know where he is in the country. But in any event, yeah, no, one,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: we get into arguments about Michael Bay, and he basically
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: points out that Michael Bay is actually a very good
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 4: technical director, and the thing is, he is. Michael Bay
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 4: knows how to make his butt go far when it
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 4: comes to reproducing large-scale military assaults uh and and that
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: happen to have robots in them uh so that's that's
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: the transformers movie by the way it's a big military
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 4: trilogy that happens to have giant robots in them.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 7: He knows how to do visuals i still don't think
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 7: he knows how to set up a fight scene no
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 7: no he doesn't know how.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: To do action scenes not really but uh but zach
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 4: snyder i think actually does have a great vision when
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: it comes to a lot of his scenes like uh
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 4: something i still love from from uh from Watchmen is
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 4: I think he really did capture the giant clock spaceship
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 4: that floats around Mars.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 10: Yes.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: That and the intro were the things I liked about it.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the intro's terrific.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's some of the coolest stuff I've seen. And
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: I honestly... I got my very first death threats for
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Watchmen and Avatar.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: Before the movie came out.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: By the way.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: You always remember your first movie.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 6: Don't you?
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: With a kind of nostalgia. But no, they were, it
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: was those two movies, but the thing that I said
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: was that I did love the opening, and I did think,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: even Sucker Punch, like I hated Sucker Punch, but I thought.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 6: Visually, Yeah, no.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 4: And honestly, that's the level at which I mostly care
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 4: about it, is that it was a sequence of really
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: impressive visual sequences.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 6: Didn't he start out doing music videos? He started out
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 6: with music videos, I believe.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 4: Zack Snyder, that is.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 6: So it doesn't surprise me that he gets that.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: He gets like... Coordinating.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 6: Because that part worked great. Because the first 20 minutes
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 6: is just kind of a music video.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah. And actually most modern directors pretty much get
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 4: their start doing music videos, which is why I need
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 4: to jump in there at some point if I ever
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 4: want to get my career off the ground. But regardless,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 4: so Zack Snyder to me is a guy who can
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 4: direct visuals very well usually. So when I look at
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 4: this film and I see how messy it is and
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 4: I see how confused it is, I gotta believe, and
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 4: this is not an attempt to really defend Zack Snyder,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 4: but to say, I think there must have been a
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: lot of executive meddling in this movie. There must have been.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 4: In this project, there has to be.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we also, I mean, we've known for a
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: long time that that's the case with most movies. I
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: better have spent a lot of time, he worked on
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: Spider-Man 3 and the Spider-Man 4 that didn't happen, so
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: I've heard.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 6: That is the story.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 4: Yes, I've heard all.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: About how that happens, but I think we all actually
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: really know this now because of the Sony hack. So
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: we saw How many notes are there? And I mean,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: even Drew McQueen from HitFix was like, they filmed, I
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: believe that's who said it, they filmed studio notes. That's
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: clearly what this was. And it's, you can always see
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: when their hand's been in it. And they don't understand
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: the difference between made money and is good. So they're like,
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: but it was successful, but it sucked, but it made money,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: but it sucked, but it made money. Like, I don't understand.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 4: Well, again, it's the two different, yeah, it's the two
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: different sides of the film. I recently wrote a screenplay where,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 4: so I was writing this spec script for a director
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: and he basically said, The way this process usually works,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 4: he just hands me a plot and says, here, write this.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: And I say, okay, sure. I'm writing it out. And
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: it's supposed to be this noir film. It takes place
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 4: in New York, et cetera, et cetera. And then at
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 4: some point, I send it back to him. And it's
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 4: about these two Irish mobsters. I send it back to him.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 4: And he comes back to me and he says, hey, man,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 4: the script was great and everything. Two things I want
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 4: you to change. One, I want the characters to not
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 4: be Irish. I want them to be Arabic. so change
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 4: that a little bit. And then two, it turns out
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: I get a chance to film in Thailand next month,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 4: so add a scene in Thailand.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: And so I was like, and of course, you know,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: it's a gig. Production notes. Of course, it was a gig,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 4: so I was like, okay, so younger brother goes to Thailand,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: busts up a child smuggling ring, and yeah, that's a thing.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 4: You know, and now they're both Arabic immigrants in, okay, sure.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: And And the thing was, it was fine. Just a
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: minor detail. But this kind of meddling, whenever it happens
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 4: on any level of the project, it inevitably leaves its
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 4: fingerprints just all over things. It's so visible. And this film,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: I feel, especially suffered from. Because like I said with
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 4: those three other movies, I get the impression that there's
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 4: sufficient talent in this, there's sufficient money in this, that
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 4: a really good movie could have been made. I don't
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: want to say that this film was just doomed.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 6: I don't think anyone thinks that, though. I think that's
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 6: what the frustration is. Everyone's like, you're so close.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: You're so close, but these key things. I had listened
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: to Zack Snyder talk about, because I talked to him
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: on the set, but I had listened to him talk
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: about Watchmen on a podcast where he was saying, well,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: the studio wouldn't let me put in this older night
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: owl thing or they wouldn't let me put this in.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: And I do still think the director's cut is a
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: lot better.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 4: The older night owl scene is awesome. It is. It
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: is a great scene.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: And so, like, do you think that maybe he'd be
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: good but he just doesn't know how to say no
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: to studios?
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: Well, they don't throw a lot of money at him.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But that seems to be the thing because every
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: time he talks about these movies and what he was
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: telling us, now, we... We knew the ending because, by
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: the way, that sword of Sucker Punch, the sword at
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: the end, actually has the entire story carved on it
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: and they showed it to us. So we knew the
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: entire end part. But the way he was talking about
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: the film, I was like, oh, I'd like to see
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: that thing. That film that you have in your head,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: I'd love to see that. And then what we got
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: on the screen, I was there when they filmed the
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: dance scenes. Each character except for Babydoll had a whole
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: dance sequence. And they filmed it and they didn't put
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: it in. They've released Love is the Drug, but the
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: rest of them they haven't released.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 7: I kind of liked it like that. It was one
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 7: of the few things I liked that decision to like,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 7: because I think no matter how good that scene was,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 7: if you cut it like that, it makes it like immeasurable.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 7: Whatever they show you could not be near as impressive
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 7: as what just happened when they come back out of that.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: And you're like, oh God, what.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: Did she just do? Well, Baby Dolls, you would never
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: have seen Baby Dolls dances, but the other ones, they
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: made more sense. They made the characters make sense. And
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: then the studio was.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 4: Like, you know, Well, again, I'd be down to see
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 4: Sucker Punch, which again, even though it's probably his, I mean,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 4: since it's the only one that's not adapted from a
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 4: much denser work and again I remain a fan of
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: 300 the graphic novel not so much the movie it's
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 4: funny I read that graphic novel when I was reading
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: Herodotus oh wow yeah actually funny enough Frank Miller does
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 4: a pretty great job of capturing the way the Greeks
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 4: felt about themselves like you know versus the Persians So
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: whenever people bash it, they're like, oh, that film's really racist.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: I'm like, well, actually, pretty much all the sources from
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: that film are crazy racist. They're also racist. Yeah, I mean,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 4: he actually does a fairly good job of capturing the
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 4: way these people perceive this situation. But in any event,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: but Zack Snyder, his most... what I felt Sucker Punch
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 4: was one of his best films, partly because it has
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: that full creative control available to it.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 7: It's really the only time he's ever done an original idea.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 7: Like, everything else is just almost shot for shot, recreating
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 7: somebody else's thing. Yeah. And I'm like, that's, again, you're
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 7: relatively good at that, but you have no real original
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 7: spark at all.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: And, like, at least that, that's the thing.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 7: Like, I think that movie is massively flawed, and I
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 7: have problems with Sucker Punch, but I'm like, at least
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 7: it's your thing. At least it's your original weird vision,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 7: and it's so messed up, but at least it's you.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 4: Artistically, I have respect for.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 7: That movie, because it's yours through and through.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: Crazy girls are in a brothel for rich men, because
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: they like to sleep with crazy girls.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: That's his idea. He likes that idea.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, he does.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 7: So I'm like, I at least have respect for the
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 7: fact that you made the movie you wanted to make,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 7: where the rest of these, I feel like, again, it
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 7: is just the studio going, Here's a lot of money.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 7: Do this thing that we wrote down or this comic
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 7: book that somebody else already did.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: On this cocktail napkin.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's always going to be on a cocktail napkin.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: I would love it if the plot of Batman v.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 4: Superman was literally titled Batman v. Superman question mark? Yes.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: From there. Lex Luthor is crazy. Batman fights Superman. Doomsday
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 4: is there. Somehow. You know, you imagine they're spelling it out.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: With doodles on the sides.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 4: And also Wonder Woman in little dollar signs.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dollar signs would be the doodles.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 7: We blame it on the money, but I'm like, you know,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 7: they probably throw a whole lot of money at Joss.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 4: Whedon, too. But you know what?
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 7: His scripts are good, and his movie holds water at
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 7: the end.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 4: And you're like, wow, this is great.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 6: I think that's a huge difference, though. We all know
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 6: with Joss Whedon's background, he can write. Zack Snyder, I
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 6: feel like, I kind of said this earlier, I feel
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 6: like when you look at comic books... It's almost rare
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 6: that a person that writes a story draws it too.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 6: Zack Snyder is a great illustrator. He's not a great writer.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 6: Let him be in charge of all your cinematic fights,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 6: action sequences, shots, but let someone else do the writing
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 6: who knows how to really embed that heart and soul
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 6: of the characters and actually make everything cohesive and stick together.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 6: It feels like for 10, 15 years now, I've been
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 6: seeing mediocre movies, and I feel like I have to mention, though,
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 6: that it looks great. And I always feel perplexed, don't I?
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 6: Because I didn't like the movie, but it looked great.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 6: I owe it to say it. It looks good, but
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 6: it's not good. And I wish someone would change that.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 6: If you can make it look good, then that be
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 6: your thing. Let someone else do the writing and nail
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 6: the other.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 4: Half of it, please. And you make a fine point
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 4: there about characters, too. One of the reasons we keep
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 4: coming back to these characters is because they are, in fact,
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 4: interesting characters. I mean, we can drone on about the
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 4: mythological meaning of Superman or Batman and what they mean
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 4: in terms of your Joseph Campbell, you know, Psych 101
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 4: class interpretation of the human personality. But when it comes
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 4: down to it, the reason we care about Superman and
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 4: Batman is because of Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne. We're
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 4: actually interested in these people. We're interested in the Marvel characters,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 4: which is one of the things we get in the
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 4: Marvel movies. They're filled with personality.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 10: Oh, yeah.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 7: More so than just any other time we've ever seen.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, people make fun of the Marvel movies for
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 4: always quipping. Everyone always has a quip.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: Quips are funny.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 4: Quips are funny. And you know what else? They have
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: personality to them. The reason is these characters are spending
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 4: most of their time just talking to each other.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 6: How great was Martha's joke about the cape?
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, that seemed like.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 6: The brightest moment in the whole movie, and it was
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 6: just a subtle joke, but I was like, oh my gosh.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 6: Someone in this universe has a sense of humor? I
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 6: get that it has to be dark, but it doesn't
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 6: mean that 100% of the population is dark.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks for making me laugh, Martha.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 6: Make a joke.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 4: Superman's mom doesn't take him seriously. That's the great thing.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: Diane is a good actress. She's always been awesome. Unlike
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 4: his dad who shows up in his weird dream metaphor
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 4: just to be piling rocks up on each other and
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 4: being like, vague metaphor about doing the right thing, right?
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 7: See, that's, I kinda, I have issue with your statement
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 7: there because I'm like, I'm not interested in half of
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 7: that scenario.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 4: I'm interested in Bruce Wayne.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 7: I think Batman is a compelling character and always has been.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 7: I've never really been interested in Superman or Clark Kent.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 7: I mean, the Clark Kent is the most interesting aspect,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 7: but again, it's that God thing that they love to
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 7: shove in there.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: And Kingdom Come. He's interesting in Kingdom Come.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 7: I mean, I think there are ways to make him interesting.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 7: I think even if you go back to the first movie,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 7: the 70s movie, it's like that's the only time I've
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 7: responded to him on film, and that's that actor.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: He's so damn.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 7: Likable that I'm like, you can't fight it.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 9: Like, his.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 4: He is the big blue Boy Scout in this movie.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 4: And that's when he works.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 6: And that's what scares me about this movie is I
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 6: feel like how dark the tone is. I feel like
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 6: they're leaning towards injustice. And if you kill Lois Lane
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 6: in a movie and have Superman go beevil, holy F.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 6: Superman 3, what are you talking about? That vision that
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 6: Batman has, that vision, if it is truly, if somehow,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 6: because it was so convoluted, if Batman's vision with the
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 6: parademons and fighting everyone and Superman taking his mask off,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 6: if that is actually... the future, if that's some residual
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 6: effect of the Flash coming back to warn him, think
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 6: how dark they want to take it then. You're going
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 6: to have Superman full on evil.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: And now they're reportedly reshooting Suicide Squad to make it lighter.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 6: I've heard there's been three quotes now from PR people
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 6: from WE slipping the word fun in. The next one, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 6: and fun, and we're doing more fun. They're slipping in
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 6: the word fun. I'm not sure they know how to
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 6: have fun Merging Flash and Cyborg, which might be their
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 6: loose way of shortening the movies. Now they're talking about
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 6: how Flash and Cyborg will be in the same movie together.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 4: So is it the Flash.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 6: Movie with Cyborg? Is it the Cyborg movie with Flash?
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 4: And it's also going to be called Flashpoint, and it's
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 4: going to cram in the... Yeah, so it's all just
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 4: going to kind of happen at once with that movie.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 7: That was already my problem with this, though. With Man
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 7: of Steel, it's like, I don't like this Superman in general.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 7: At all.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 4: I don't even like, I don't know that.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 7: I hate Henry Cavill because I haven't really seen him
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 7: in anything else.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: No, he's a really nice man and I got to
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: pet him in the suit.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: I did, yeah.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 4: I want to say, if you ever do see him again,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 4: let him know that I believe that Henry Cavill can
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: play a good Superman.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: I do, too.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: I watched him on the Tudors.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: Yep, me too.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 4: Throughout all four seasons. He's one of my favorite characters. Yeah.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: And I look at that guy and I'm like, you know,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 4: this guy, there's a great video they released before Batman
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 4: v Superman where he's like in a zoo.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 4: He's talking to kids and he's like, so who do
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 4: you like more, Batman or Superman? And the kids are
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 4: always like, Batman, Batman. And then one of them's like, Batman,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 4: because he can fly. He's like, well, Batman can't actually fly.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 4: Superman flies. And the kid's like, oh. He's like, so
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: who do you like better, Batman or Superman? Batman. It's like,
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 4: he's cool.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 4: But I'm watching him in that scene.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 6: I'm like, man, that guy's got it.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 4: He's got that.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: No, he's really funny. I mean, I've interviewed him a
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: bunch of times. And on set, he was great. And
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: I was really tired. And he came over. He's like,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: are you OK? And somebody's like, she's in the middle
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: of a divorce. Can she pet your suit? And I
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know what? I'm not going to
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: argue with that. And he's like, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 4: Wait, wait, so Superman came up to you and said,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: are you okay?
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, in the suit.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 4: That's how you know you're in trouble.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 7: In the suit.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 4: You were going through a divorce. Yeah.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 10: Oh, my God.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: It's nice that he helps with that, too. He put
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: his arm out and he was like, do you want
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: to touch the suit? I'm like, uh-huh. It felt like
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: a basketball.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: I was going to say, and it helps that, well, yeah,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 4: all that texture can't be realized. And it helps that
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 4: Henry Cavill is one of those inhumanly attractive guys. I mean,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 4: those cheekbones look like they were carved from solid marble.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: I believe that they were.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: That's the thing.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 13: Jesus.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 7: He has the look, and we know in the real
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 7: world he's a nice guy.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: So I'm like... that's all you have to bring through.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 4: It's like, you can fold in that performance.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 6: Now you're starting to sound like Zack. Be careful, you're
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 6: sounding like Zack now. It just has to look like it.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 6: It just has to look like it.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 7: It just has to make it dark. I'm like, Superman
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 7: doesn't need to be dark.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: No, because then they're the same people fighting each other.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 4: Well, and also Superman going dark should always be only
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 4: at the end of a much larger arc of brightness.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 4: One of the reasons Superman, if you look at his
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 4: rogues gallery, you know, Superman's rogues gallery combines ridiculous, ridiculous characters.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 4: For some reason, I don't like them. Well, guys like Mr.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 4: Mixleplick and Parasite and so on and so forth. people
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 4: who are more science fantasy villains than they are straight up.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 4: And his biggest villain is Lex Luthor, who is essentially
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 4: the opposite of Superman, not because he simply doesn't have powers,
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 4: but because where Superman is unfailingly honest, Lex Luthor is
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 4: unfailingly not.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 4: He's always greedy.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 7: He's always concerned about himself, which is supposed to be
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 7: not the way Superman works.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 4: And ultimately, Lex Luthor knows how to play the system
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 4: to get what he wants, and Superman kind of breaks
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 4: the system by being a good guy.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 4: The Superman movie or the Superman idea isn't about Superman
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 4: triumphing over darkness or anything like that. It's really about
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 4: someone having the power to, this is the weird thing
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 4: about the Superman fantasy. We always talk about him in
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 4: terms of Nietzsche and the Ubermensch Nietzsche's Ubermensch is an asshole.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 4: That's not Superman. Superman is the guy, just like us,
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 4: who finally has the power to be as good as
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 4: we wish we could be. Yeah. You know, there's a
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 4: part of us, this is my nerd.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: He's aspirational.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 4: And does the right thing with it.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 7: That's what I hate about these movies. I'm like, he's
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 7: just a jerk.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 4: Like, the whole time. A cold, unfeeling jerk.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, I just don't like him.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 6: Which is why we made the Wolverine reference. I think
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 6: on the first one, right off, I'm like, he's got
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 6: an ego. Like Superman in a comic, I never get
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 6: a sense of ego in a comic. He should be
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 6: Captain America. He had a huge, overly sensitive ego.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Captain America. He's Captain America. He always does the
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: right thing, even when it's difficult for him.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: He never fails.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 7: That was my favorite line in this movie, was when
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 7: Batman says to him.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 6: You're not brave.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 7: Because you're a god. You're impenetrable to everything on this planet.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 7: So if you do something, quote, heroic, I'm like, it's
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 7: not heroic.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 4: Because nothing's going to hurt you. It's heroic on your scale,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 4: but not on your scale.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 6: It's not heroic. On your scale, it's taking out the garbage.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 4: Seriously, that's a scene. God, I hated that that was
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 4: the way they met. The way they met was he's
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 4: driving around the corner. Oh, there's Superman. Runs into him
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 4: with his car. It's like, what the hell? But no,
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 4: so yeah, you're what? And that's the thing, is Superman...
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 4: is an aspirational good guy. He should be. Clark Kent
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 4: is really just an ordinary person who wants to live
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 4: an ordinary life. And when he can't, he winds up
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 4: becoming an even better person.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 4: That's kind of his weird paradox. So when you watch,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 4: so otherwise, these scenes where he's running around tearing stuff up,
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 4: One of the things that really killed me from the
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 4: Zack Snyder movie is you see all these shots of
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 4: Superman floating down like a deity. And a lot of
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 4: them are really gorgeous shots. But the Superman that I know,
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: and again, this is me saying you can do Superman
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 4: different with a reason, but the Superman that I know
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 4: when in that scene where he rescues the person from
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 4: the burning house and everyone's like trying to reach out
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: and touch him, he would have said no. He would
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 4: have said, I'm not a god. He would have said,
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 4: you know. I'm just doing my job. I am, you know,
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 4: and like fly off. He would not.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: He'd save a kitten on the way.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 4: When people are like painting S's and reaching out to
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 4: him and everything, he would.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he'd be like, no, no, no, dude, dude, dude.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, he would have saved them, put them in
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 4: a boat with rescue squad and said, now they're the
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 4: real heroes.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 4: And like flown away. That's Superman.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 6: Can we talk about the Capitol building blowing up again then?
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 6: Why would Superman leave? The building just blew up. There's
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 6: plenty of, you can.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: Blow out the fire.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 6: There's plenty of stuff for you to do right here.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 6: He got to.
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: Lois as she's falling halfway down a building. Oh, I
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: caught you. You couldn't get anyone out of there as
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: you started to hear the bomb explode? No, no.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 6: I mean, did they say if it was made out
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 6: of lead? I was wondering if maybe it was hinted
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 6: that the wheelchair thing was made out of lead.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: So we couldn't see it or something? Because he was
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: standing like, next to him.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 6: He's like right there.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: He's like, you know, I'm feeling a little tired. I
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: don't understand why.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 4: Apparently this version doesn't have x-ray vision.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 6: Maybe the smell of pee coming out of her cup
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 6: was too strong and he couldn't smell the gunpowder because
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 6: we needed that pee scene. God damn.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 13: Funny.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 6: Didn't everyone giggle when that happened?
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 4: By the way, I gotta say that until we got
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 4: the dead shot of the wheelchair, I actually didn't realize
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 4: that an explosion was coming. I was just like, why
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 4: are we all standing around? Why is she looking so nervous?
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 4: I was the same way. Why is she taking like
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 4: 15 minutes to turn that glass of pee around?
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: Why is Mercy?
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: Because it's weird when you leave pee on someone's people.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: People in the theater were like, how insane is that?
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 4: But she looks like she's terrified.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 6: They're like, what are we doing?
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 4: Like she knows something's about to happen.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: Like wouldn't she just go, oh, he's such an ass.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 4: We all were.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: Pee equals explosions.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 4: What?
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 11: Does it?
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: Does it?
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 4: Really? Or, yeah, and then she looks up and his
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 4: chair is vacant. At that point, I'm still like, what's
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 4: going on? But I do want to bring up my, okay,
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 4: another major confusion that I had with the film. I
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 4: actually don't understand what happened with the, I heard it
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 4: compared to like Benghazi or something where they were out
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 4: in the desert. So, okay. Bad structure. That was the
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 4: first 20 minutes.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 7: I'm like, who wrote this and why is it so awkward?
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: Because we're trying to make Lois do one thing that's
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: not falling off a building. We're doing something stupid.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 11: So, okay.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 4: Lois goes to this place with, I guess, Jimmy Olsen.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 4: I guess that's who that was. He's in the CIA.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 6: He's working undercover and she doesn't know it.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 4: So they all got out there, right? And then the
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 4: dude starts taking apart his camera and finds a tracking device.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 4: And my first thought is, well, hang on. If you
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 4: invited them out to your compound in the middle of
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 4: the desert.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you check them first.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, before you took them off the plane. And honestly,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 4: what is breaking the tracking device going to do when
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 4: you're at the location? Yeah, they've already tracked you.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they know you're there.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and then afterwards, when Lois has been captured and
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 4: then Superman's on the way, then dude pulls a gun,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 4: blows away a few random guys. I still don't know
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 4: who those guys were.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: They were like, They were probably other minor characters that
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: we'll find out about that we loved.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 6: We were having fun. We were having fun. It was
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 6: a fun party.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 4: It was a great big fun party. So he blows
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 4: them away, and at first I thought, are they like
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 4: his own men? Why is this guy shooting them and
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 4: then flying away? But then later on, it sounded as
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 4: though what Superman's being indicted for is the death of
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 4: those soldiers. Of their guys, yeah. Which, again, okay, so
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: you're bringing out a bunch of soldiers and some reporters
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 4: to your compound, and you're like... what, you're being tracked?
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 4: And then you're like, oh, well, you gotta go. Like,
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it's like, so who do you think, okay,
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: so we've got some terrorists, some reporters, and Superman. Who
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: do you think blew up the bomb?
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: Superman, Superman totally did it. Like, what?
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 4: Those poor innocent terrorists.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 4: That damn Superman killed them. Again, I'm just like, what
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 4: happened in that scene? It's bad storytelling.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 6: It just is. All it had was to set up
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 6: the whole drama with the bullet, but then in the end,
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 6: what did the bullet even matter?
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 4: The bullet doesn't say anything. It didn't matter at all.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 4: Bad storytelling. Also, there was supposed to be some sort
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 4: of thing where Lex Luthor... apparently contrived this scene in
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 4: order to bring Lois out there, which would bring Superman,
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 4: create the Benghazi thing, force Superman to go to a
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 4: hearing where then he could blow up the senator and
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 4: blame Superman, except within five minutes they'd already determined it
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 4: was a bomb and not Superman.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, see, I feel bad for the script supervisor on
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: this movie who's probably like, Dude, wait, hold on.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 4: He's overwhelmed.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: I gotta get back at this. Hold on, wait, wait, wait.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: What happened? Zach, Zach, Zach, what the fuck?
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 4: A room full of post-it notes. That's all I'm imagining.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 4: It's just like, and then that happened. And I think that...
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 4: came afterwards.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: What page does this go on did something stick together
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: i don't.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 7: Understand costner back to explain this magic bullet to us
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 7: because i yes there was a magic bullet flashback it
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 7: should have hit the script uh split into a thousand
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 7: pieces and fried it uh.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 6: I feel like he really he really well somebody really
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 6: thought that they were kind of nailing another like dark
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 6: knight script this is gonna be this big you know
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 6: like the second batman movie got like compared to Heat
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 6: and stuff. I feel like he was like, man, we
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 6: got this big, thick plot. There's all this intrigue. What's
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 6: going on? But in the end, it was just, what's
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 6: going on?
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: I did actually ask what's going on.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 6: To be a complex plot, it just felt fractured.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 4: Well, and to be clear, Batman, The Dark Knight is...
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 4: a movie kind of in the same category as The
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 4: Matrix in the sense that actually both of those movies
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 4: are extremely simple in terms of plot. They're a series
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 4: of chase sequences and heists, okay? That's really what you're
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 4: looking at. You're looking at a series of very well-shot
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 4: heists that happen to have this layer over them that's
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 4: very minimal but does a lot of work. I mean,
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 4: if you think about the actual, like, The biggest philosophical
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 4: point Christopher Nolan tried to make was actually the only
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 4: thing in that movie I felt that fell flat, which
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 4: was the two ships with the criminals and the ordinary people.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 7: That was the only heavy-handed part.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 4: Well, and that was obviously the only place where I
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 4: felt the script was really trying to make a point,
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 4: whereas really the most important part of the script was
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 4: Alfred saying things like, some men just want to watch
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 4: the world burn or add a little crazy and then
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 4: the world becomes more interesting. Little throwaway lines like that.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 4: This movie, instead, tried to make, instead of a series
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 4: of sequences that were relatively self-contained, that all flowed together,
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 4: Instead you wind up with this big overarching convoluted plot
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 4: as hell with a bunch of characters constantly talking about
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 4: what it meant.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 6: It was almost like you were supposed to get together
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 6: with buddies and be like, oh, did you notice this?
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 6: Maybe that's what that. Oh, did that connect with that?
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 6: Oh my god, I think we got it.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 4: That's so deep, except it's not. Except it's not.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: And if you look at the DC TV universe, there
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: are always cameos from new villains and all that stuff
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: and new superheroes. And that's really cool. And it's sort
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: of like DC is like, well, that works on TV,
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: so let's put it in a movie. Well, you have
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: 23 hours in the TV show. You have two and
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: a half in the movie. You can't put all the
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: stuff in the same movie.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 4: Don't tell me that, says Zack Snyder. Watch me. Well,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 4: and someone needs to teach Zack Snyder the meaning of
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 4: the word casual. Like as in when we have a
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 4: casual cameo or when we have a casual reference.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 6: As opposed to a- How many newscasters did we see?
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 6: How many people from real life? Like, you know, it's
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 6: a comic book universe. I don't need it to be
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 6: that literal. There's no subtlety at all. It's like, Clark, kid, me.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 4: I was like, really? Because we needed that? Well, and also, like,
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 4: Lex Luthor knew Clark. Again, the knowing Clark is still. But,
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, just how heavy handed.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 6: It was, too.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, we all know. Duh. We're at this movie.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 4: Let's back up for a second. I do have a
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 4: question for everyone at the table, which is, we've We
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 4: keep wanting to just explode into rage. That's what we're
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 4: here for. But I do want to know. We've talked
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 4: a little bit. I mean, I have my three good
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 4: movies that were buried in it. What is a thing
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 4: that everyone actually really enjoyed about the movie? Because there
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 4: had to be something that people at least thought worked.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: Wonder Woman is it. That's it. That's all that worked
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: for me. I mean, I think Ben Affleck did a
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: great job. And I would like to see him do
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: a solo movie directed by someone else. but I didn't. Yes, himself, please.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: That would be fine.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 4: Gone, baby, gone.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: Except for Wonder Woman discovering the Justice League in the email.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: Other than that, I thought all of her beats were perfect.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't need to see her more in more of
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: the movie. Everyone's like, oh, she wasn't in it enough. Well, no,
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: they were introducing her at the end. That makes total
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: sense to me. But that's the only thing that worked
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: for me. The only thing.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 4: I thought she was great. I would have I'd either
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 4: like to have seen her worked in better. I think
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 4: that's it.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 7: Maybe not more, but just not so just shoved in there.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 7: It looked like they were desperately trying to add her
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 7: at the last minute.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 4: And also Wonder Woman dot dot dot. On the cocktail napkin.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 4: For me, the one thing it delivered on is the
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 4: first half of the title.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 7: I'm okay with that fight. It is the geek fanboy
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 7: fight everybody has wanted forever.
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: I was too pissed by the time we got to it, though.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 7: Well, only because I'm so annoyed at Superman the entire movie.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, God, please, somebody just punch him in
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 4: the face. If I may, he's being a bit of
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 4: a bitch. His face is always like. I was screwed
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 4: up all the time. I don't know why Zack Snyder
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 4: refuses to just have him look. There's one moment where
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 4: he looks heroic and then all the rest he's got like.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 4: He's emo Superman.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he is. Even his light side, his Clark Kent side.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 4: He's a jerk. Which to bring a.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 6: Really important point to light, Clark Kent is dead. Let
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 6: that set in. They didn't have two funerals for Superman.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 6: They buried Clark Kent. So now when he comes back,
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 6: however he comes back, he can't be Clark Kent.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 4: Clark Kent just died. Zack Snyder doesn't have to waste
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 4: time on personality.
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 6: Is he going to have, what's the fortress in space?
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 4: The lighthouse or whatever? Oh, the watchtower.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 6: The watchtower. Is Superman just going to have the watchtower?
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 6: He's going to live in the.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 4: Fortress of Solitude, man.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: I can't live on like a 3,400 block of water.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 6: I mean, at any point in the comic, have they
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 6: killed Clark? Even when Batman died, didn't Clark go missing
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 6: for a while in the comic? I don't think they
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 6: killed him then. So to kill Clark Kent is like.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 4: You just took away his... What was your thing?
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 6: I think Batman looked great. I loved Irons' Alfred. I
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 6: thought it was a little lame that he wasn't a detective.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 6: It seemed like Alfred was the detective, and he's just...
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 6: the actionable guy taking care of it.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and I feel like we didn't have enough of
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 7: that either. We're cramming too many movies in. That could
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 7: have been its own separate movie.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 6: When he's going for Martha, when he's going to save
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 6: Superman's mom, which happened in a comic, that's cool that
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 6: they put that in there. He does save Superman's mom
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 6: in part in a comic. But when he's like, oh
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 6: my God, we gotta go get Martha, and Alfred's just like, oh,
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 6: she's over here.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 4: Well, not only that, but... Superman couldn't do that?
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: Superman couldn't do that?
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 6: But your butler at home in your basement could?
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 4: Alfred's pretty cool.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, not only that, but the whole bit with just like,
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 4: you know, Martha, your mom's name is Martha? Oh, we
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 4: are best friends now.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 7: We are.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 6: To be honest, for Batman, that literally does not change anything.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 6: any of Batman's arguments. You spent this whole movie about, yeah,
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 6: you're good now. Yeah, you're all powerful. All these arguments
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 6: that Batman had are not swerved because he has the
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 6: same mother's name. Literally nothing changed there. And for you
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 6: to have a soft moment based on your dead mom
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 6: would not change that he's still a threat to the
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 6: world and all those other arguments.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: They don't matter because our moms have the same name.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: That leads me to one.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 4: Of my bigger points.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 5: Did you want to get yours in first though, honey?
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 4: Well, I do actually want to bring up a brief
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 4: objection to the battle between Batman and Superman because I
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 4: will say... I just wanted to see him punch him
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 4: in the face. A whole lot. I really did. Actually,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 4: my disagreement is that's actually what I felt we did see.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 4: He put us on the armor... which doesn't cover his jaw,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 4: which seems like a major, you know.
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: It's not good when that shatters.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 4: It's all a whole bunch of plot holes and domes.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 6: But whatever, whatever.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 4: Okay, he's wearing the battle armor. He hits him with
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 4: the stuff, and then he starts just punching him. And
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 4: to my mind, I was like, you know, I feel
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 4: like the battle between Batman and Superman is really where
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 4: we need to see the gadgets come out.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 4: Because let's not forget, one of the things that we
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 4: don't see as much about Batman anymore is he's the gadgeteer.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 4: He's the guy who always has something else crazy up
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 4: his ass. Yeah. And you pull out of his utility belt.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 4: Is that where he came from? I always wonder. He's
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 4: always reaching behind himself.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 4: That's what the cape's there for. So you don't have
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 4: to see that. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody wants
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 4: to see it.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: So much makes sense now.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 4: Anita Sarkeesian, I think, was making fun of the fact
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 4: you can't see Batman's butt in the cape. And it's like, well,
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 4: that's why. It's because that's where all of his stuff is. Like,
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 4: he doesn't want you to see it all up there.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 4: But anyway, so.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: That, like, changed my whole perception of the world. Thank you.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no worries. Now you understand. A little bit
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 4: of mansplaining for you there.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, God.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 4: Thank you for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a drag
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 4: us through that muck again. But in any event, so... Yeah, no,
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 4: so that... I was like, man, that could have been
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 4: a really interesting fight scene where you see him pulling
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 4: out a lot of really interesting stuff and using a
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 4: lot of really interesting tactics, but instead, he's muscular and
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 4: Superman is weak, and so he beats him up a bit.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 7: Again, I think it could have been done better, but
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 7: it was, again, in this, a whole bunch of stuff
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 7: I didn't like, it was like, please just beat the
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 7: hell out of Superman. And that was like, for a minute,
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 7: I was just, because I like the Batman character so much,
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 7: I'm like, Thank God. I like this moment where he's
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 7: beating the hell out of Superman.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I will say. But it could have been
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 4: done better. I will reiterate. I mean, to side with
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 4: the two of you, I mean, the Wonder Woman movie
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 4: that was buried in here was good. The depressed Batman
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 4: at the end of.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 6: He just wasn't killing people. That is my thing. I
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 6: would say I'm 100% behind Batman except for the killing.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 6: I can't forgive that. Unfortunately, I'm a comic book kid. You,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 6: that is. Superman and Batman have things about them that
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 6: I feel like. It's what makes them relevant and what
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 6: makes it possible to write stories about them because they
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 6: have stances. And you can write drama around testing those stances.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 6: And when you throw the stances out the window, what
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 6: makes Batman and Superman different? Why are they even different mentally?
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 6: Why are they even different now?
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 4: Well, and again, the question that I raise is I
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 4: don't have a problem with making Batman carry a gun
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 4: or making Superman kill people or whatever. But the question is,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 4: why are you telling that story? Because if you're gonna
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 4: tell me, I'm gonna tell you a Superman story, and
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 4: Superman's killing people, but you don't explain to me why
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 4: that matters, then I don't know why you just picked
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 4: up this character, because now it's not this character.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's other characters who kill people.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 4: So anyway, so the Wonder Woman movie, the depressing Batman movie,
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 4: which I swear to God I would love just as
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 4: the art geek in me would love just the Bruce
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 4: Wayne wandering around Wayne Manor feeling depressed and quoting E.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: Mark Bergman. Can you sing the Lego Batman song?
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 7: I was going to say, have you seen the trailer
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 7: for the Lego Batman movie?
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so excited. It's Will Arnett. Okay, thank God.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 4: I am so down with that. It's so much fun.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 4: Will Arnett is one of the best Batmans we've had.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 4: That's our hope for Batman. Let's not lie. Let's not
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 4: kid ourselves.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 8: It's true.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 4: But I want to throw in a little bit more
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 4: on that third movie, which I wish. See, I think
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 4: that Zack Snyder is at his peak when he's not
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 4: being realistic at all, when he's totally abandoned realism and
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 4: he can let his visual imagination run wild. So the
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 4: Nightmare movie, the movie Post-Apocalyptic Batman. I would so watch that.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 4: Like that five minutes of this movie, I was like,
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 4: holy crap, Snyder. Why didn't you make, because it reiterates
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 4: something that I felt during the Superman movie. I thought
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 4: to myself, that first 20 minutes, a lot of people
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 4: gave it flat because they were like, oh, it's too complicated,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 4: it's confusing. I'm like, dude, we're watching Avatar on Krypton
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 4: and we've got these two childhood friends with these two
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 4: different visions of how to save their society that's falling
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 4: apart as the world's about to blow up. Holy hell,
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 4: this movie is awesome.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 7: That was the only part that was interesting in that
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 7: first movie. I was like, God, I wanna watch the
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 7: Krypton movie.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 4: What did you.
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 6: Guys think, just to drop in on that, what did
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 6: you guys think of that Bruce, Tim, Gods and Monsters
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 6: animated thing? The one where it's the dark Justice League
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 6: where instead of Kyle L's son, it's Zod's son.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean, I love stuff like that.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 6: And where Batman was a vampire.
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen that yet, I don't think. I need
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 4: to get on it.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 6: Well, it was, okay, so Bruce Timm is not happy
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 6: with dark Batman stuff. He's been real vocal about the
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 6: Harlequin about to happen. He's like, I didn't create a
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 6: suicide girl. Like, stop making Harlequin a scantily clad sex thing.
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 6: But he kind of feels that way about Batman, too.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 6: He's like, even though the Batman anime series is dark, literally,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 6: it's not dark. And so he's been kind of like,
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 6: that was his response. He was like, oh, you guys
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 6: want something dark? You want some dark Justice League? Here's
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 6: Gods and Monsters. Where like the Superman character is Zod's son.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 6: They kill. Batman is literally like more of a man bat.
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 6: He is a vampire and does drink the blood of people.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 4: That was an Elseworlds comic. I remember that. Okay.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 6: But they did a, Bruce Timm did an animated thing.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 6: It was about an hour, hour and a half recently.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 6: And it's super good, but they're all dark and mean.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 6: But for him, it was satire. It was like, well,
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 6: here's your dark good, guys.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 4: Some people don't get satire. Well, and that was, some
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 4: people maintain, and I don't know if the creator said
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 4: this or if this is just like the fan consensus
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 4: that has emerged, but some people say that about the
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 4: Nightfall storyline, the Batman comics from the 90s, that, you know,
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 4: when they replace him with Asriel, who is one of
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 4: my favorite, you know, dark horse candidates for being your
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 4: badass superhero, I am the angel of justice or what,
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 4: angel of death, whatever the hell I am. And anyway,
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 4: and they give him this crazy robot suit, and he's
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 4: got stuff that flies out of his gauntlets because he's
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 4: got gauntlets, and he fights Bane, and you're watching this
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 4: whole sequence. And the thing is generally that this is
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 4: all supposed to be a parody of replacing Batman with
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 4: this other character. And to my mind, it's like you said,
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 4: it's something that for some reason we're just now catching
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 4: up with again. one of the things that used to characterize,
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 4: this is another thing I thought was a really throwback
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 4: about this movie, something that used to characterize superhero movies
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 4: was that they would actually try to take as much
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 4: superheroism out of it as possible and make a generic
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 4: action film that happened to have a guy with a
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 4: power in it. You know, that's what the first X-Men
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 4: movie really kind of was. You know, that's what even
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 4: Daredevil movie really kind of was. Like, you know, a
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 4: lot of these early superhero movies. This movie seems to
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 4: have not gotten the memo from the early 2000s that,
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 4: actually doesn't, as I said before, there's no reason to
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 4: make that movie. If you're not gonna make a movie
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 4: that's about the character that is Superman, if you're gonna
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 4: change it or whatever... Either give me a good reason
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 4: why you're going to do that, or don't make a
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 4: film that is simply an action movie that just happens
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 4: to have these characters in it. You're misusing your material.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 4: It's not that it's terrible to make a bad action movie.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 4: It's not that it's terrible to make a different take
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 4: on a superhero. But why?
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: You're battleshipping the movie.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: Because battleship, it had nothing to do with the game.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: It's just battleship.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 4: There we go.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: Because money.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 4: Because money.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 7: I mean, that kind of leads to what my big
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 7: question was, and it goes back to your point, David.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 7: And it seems to be a theme in entertainment right now, specifically,
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 7: is it okay to kill for the right reasons? Because
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 7: it's the theme we've seen in this last season of
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 7: Walking Dead. It's the theme we've seen in this new
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 7: season of Daredevil. Everything comes about, okay, you can be,
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 7: you know, as... Badass as you want and kick people's ass,
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 7: but when do you cross the line? Is it okay
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 7: to kill people at all? And is it okay if
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 7: it's for a greater good? Does that make it okay
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 7: to kill people? And, like, it's this huge question that
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 7: suddenly everybody wants to address now.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 6: See, that's where I kind of... Well, no, in the comics,
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 6: it always has been. I think mainstream, yeah, but I
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 6: think it's coming.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 7: All of a sudden.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 4: In the pop culture stuff.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 6: I think maybe that is why people like me are
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 6: offended by movies like this, because going back to, like
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 6: I said, people have stances. They have things they will
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 6: and won't do.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 4: It's a code for Batman.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 6: That is what allows the storytelling. That's what allows us
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 6: to explore those thoughts and be like, okay, here's a
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 6: person with this stance, but what about in this situation?
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 6: How are they going to react to that? And that's
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 6: what's interesting. It's like, wow, what are you going to
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 6: do in that situation? But if there's no stances, there's
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 6: no risk reward.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: You can't break rules unless there are rules.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 6: Why should I be emotionally invested in this character that
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 6: doesn't care if he kills people or not? Like, why
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 6: give me an argument of should I kill or not
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 6: when I know he wants to and isn't offended by it? Like,
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 6: why should I care now?
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 7: It changes, yeah, it changes the rules so much so that,
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 7: I mean, almost with the Batman one, like, he still
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 7: kind of has that code all the way up there.
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 7: Does it change the rules that, Superman is different. That
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 7: Superman's not from this planet.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 4: I'm protecting my planet. You need to explain that.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 6: You need to connect and go, look, Batman normally wouldn't
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 6: kill people.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 4: No.
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 6: But this dude is an alien from another planet that
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 6: can fly, that can shoot lasers, that can breathe fast
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 6: enough to freeze. This is a whole other level.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 4: All bets are off.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 6: He needs guns now. He has a new ends justifies
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 6: the means kind of philosophy that he didn't have before.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 6: But you didn't say that. So me interjecting it No,
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 6: you don't get credit because I can kind of go, well,
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 6: maybe that's what you meant. No, you failed to tell
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 6: me the story.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 4: Well, and he failed to create characters. I mean, people
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 4: like to talk about the question of killing in the
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 4: abstract because we are the only civilization in history who
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 4: could seriously consider killing in the abstract, right? We are
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 4: bombarded with media. We hear about death all the time.
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 4: We encounter it occasionally, but for us, it is far
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 4: less of a personal thing relative to how much we
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 4: hear about it. At least it seems that way to me.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 4: But looking at these characters, the only reason killing becomes
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 4: meaningful as a question is based on the relationship that
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 4: the characters have with each other and with themselves. If
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 4: we understand who Clark Kent is, that he is really
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 4: this nonviolent person, and if we understand actually that Bruce
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 4: Wayne is in fact a nonviolent person, one of the
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 4: things I always loved is that he would never pick
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 4: up a gun. Because of course... His parents, you know,
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 4: and here he is, this mega multi-billionaire, and he's probably
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 4: anti-Second Amendment. And that's what it would make. I don't
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 4: really care, like, you know, because that's his personality. So
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 4: when you have a scene between Lex Luthor and Superman,
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 4: where Superman has the choice of, do I kill President
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 4: Lex Luthor, who is almost certainly going to screw everything over,
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 4: and you know what? That generates the whole Flashpoint paradox
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 4: and all that other stuff. So, I mean, that's really interesting.
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 4: When we have Batman confronted with, oh, my God, do
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 4: I kill the Joker? Or, like, if he kills the Joker,
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 4: is he going to feel bad about it? Like, you know,
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 4: in other words, when we come down the line and
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 4: we see all of these conflicts come in front of them,
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 4: they only make sense if we actually care or know
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 4: about the characters at the center of them. These two movies,
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 4: Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman, have done nothing.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 4: aside from a few longing looks by Batman at his costume,
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 4: done anything to actually establish why I should care about
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 4: any of these people? Or why, honestly, I still don't
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 4: understand at the end of this movie, why Superman doesn't
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 4: crush Lex Luthor's skull. There is no honest answer to
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 4: that question.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 6: Well, I mean, and even Superman himself, who has had
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 6: his own movie prior to this, doesn't even seem to
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 6: have learned anything from the first movie. He is still
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 6: in that same, like if you spend a whole movie thinking,
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 6: I thought that thing was odd at the end. It
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 6: would have been like, okay, there it is. He realizes
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 6: collateral damage is bad. That's it.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 4: That's my job on this planet. That was his origin.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 6: We have Superman. But the fact that you just carried
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 6: that over into the second movie, it's like, he still
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 6: doesn't know what he is?
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 4: He still doesn't know? He learned nothing. Zach's learned nothing.
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 6: It's been two years. The gap was two years, and
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 6: a two-year gap he didn't learn either?
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 7: Zach's learned nothing from all the bitching on the internet.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 4: Well, and another minor thing is... Again, these movies seem to...
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 4: People always talk to me about how much these movies
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 4: are trying to do something different. I say, well, not really,
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 4: because let's face it. These movies assume that you already
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 4: have a sufficient understanding of Batman and Superman because they
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 4: want to try to subvert that. I see that again
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 4: and again. These movies have not earned Superman having a statue.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 4: Right. These movies have not earned people believing and trusting
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 4: in Superman. And don't tell me that, well, well, no,
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 4: you know who Superman is. People, no. These movies tell
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 4: me Superman is a force of destruction.
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 4: These movies tell me Batman brands people, and I don't
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 4: know why that means criminals want to kill them.
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 6: How did that make any sense? It's not like he
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 6: branded child molester on them. It was a bat symbol.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: That kind of makes you look cool.
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 6: Why would the criminals kill people for Batman?
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 4: Dude, I'd be totally like, check out my bat brand. Yeah,
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 4: that's right. That would be a huge plot.
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 7: Hole, too, because it's like he just started doing that.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 7: That's why I'm like, so he just became Batman? Because
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 7: they talk about this being the second time that's happened.
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 7: And I'm like, in 20 years, he just got to
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 7: this point?
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 4: Isn't that the Frank Miller thing, though? Probably. But again,
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 4: it's like bad piecing together of other people's stories.
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 6: Wouldn't it be interesting if it was a misquote by
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 6: Irons and he was supposed to say two years, not 20?
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 6: Like if he mixed up the two and said 20
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 6: and it was supposed.
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 4: To be two?
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: It doesn't even matter.
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 4: As though we can say that there's something that one
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 4: actor said that made this movie fall apart.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: Like, you know.
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 4: Oh no, they misquoted the time.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: Jeremy Irons is like, you know what, I'm just going
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: to start saying words.
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 4: He just starts speaking gibberish. They're paying me for my time,
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 4: not for my.
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 6: Memorizing their dialogue. What do you guys think about the
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 6: Red Hood conspiracy? Remember how during the Star Wars prequels,
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 6: we'd be like, oh man, maybe they're going to do this.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 6: There's enough stuff in place that it looks like they're
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 6: hinting at Red Hood. The Joker's, or not Joker, Robin's
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 6: armor with the whole Joker writing on it. The fact
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 6: that Affleck does have five, ten minutes in Suicide Squad,
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 6: they could be leading. Jared Leto is a pretty young-looking
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 6: dude for Joker. They could be sneaking in a Red
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 6: Hood thing.
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: At this point, I think if they have any grand
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: plans like that, they've probably scrapped them because I think
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: they're rethinking everything now.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 4: They have to. I hate to sound so cynical when
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 4: I say this, but grab any one of the better-selling
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 4: trade paperbacks of Batman and Superman or the Justice League
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 4: over the last 20 years and And that's going to
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 4: be the next movie. Like, you know, that's going to
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 4: be their plan for the next film. And normally I
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 4: would say that can be cool. Like, versus Civil War, Marvel,
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 4: I feel like somehow I can't make that criticism. But
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 4: in this one, it's such an awkward, like, slamming together.
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 4: Why would you introduce Red Hood? What would that possibly
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 4: do to this?
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 6: If you do a Batman solo movie, I could see
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 6: that being the plot. Like, going from here, after the
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 6: events of Suicide Squad, because like I said, F-Lake is
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 6: supposedly in there. So after whatever happens with Suicide Squad,
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 6: if that's your stinger, it's somehow F-Lake showing up, joker
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 6: doing some reveal and that leads to the batman solo
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 6: movie it's like maybe the joker isn't the joker.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry you know you're totally i i i agree
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 4: with you that's totally what.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 6: I'm being i'm being hopeful don't get me wrong they've
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 6: put the pieces there where it wouldn't contradict anything to
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 6: go with that.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah i guess my i guess my my in
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 4: my in response to that would be do if i
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 4: see red hood you know, played by Dwayne, the rock Johnson. And,
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 4: and you know, he, I mean, who doesn't love it?
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 4: I don't know why.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: I love him too.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 4: I do. But, but, but sure. Okay.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 2: No, no, no.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 4: Actually, you know what? Let's, uh, Nick Cage, Nicholas Cage movie,
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 4: movie Red Hood. Uh, but no, like I, I gotta say,
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 4: even if that's all possible. And, and for that point,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 4: I would be interested. I would totally be interested in
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 4: a Red Hood movie, but I'm not sure why I
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 4: would care that this Batman has to face down, like
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 4: whatever the Red Hood is that they come up with,
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 4: you know? I'm not sure that there's anything really compelling
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 4: about that. You know, you said before, these characters have
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 4: to have principles. This is a, this is the whole
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 4: thing about picaresque storytelling, you know, where you have the
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 4: difference being that in regular, in regular storytelling, what we're
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 4: used to, we have characters who change over the course
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 4: of many adventures, picaresque storytelling. You have a character like
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 4: James Bond or Captain Kirk and Spock or, or Batman
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 4: or Superman who go through many, many, many different adventures,
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 4: but who always remain essentially the same. Right. Um, storylines
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 4: like Red Hood, like Doomsday, like Nightfall, what have you,
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 4: the reason these stories are supposed to be interesting is
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 4: because they challenge fundamental assumptions about the capacities of our
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 4: characters and give us something to kind of bounce back from.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 4: At this point, we don't know that character. So there's
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 4: no point. Then there's nothing to bounce back from. It'll
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 4: just be, oh, look, it's Red Hood. That guy over there.
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: Somebody I can cosplay.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 6: Again, just being devil's advocate, but I feel like... like
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 6: the fact that he tried to cram so many stories
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 6: in this movie, it's almost like he is kind of
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 6: cherry picking the best of the best of Batman. Red
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 6: Hood was a really revitalizing thing for Batman like five,
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 6: six years ago.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: Just don't let him do it.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 4: Oh, no doubt.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 6: Let someone else write it. Like I said, this acts
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 6: great visually, but please let someone else do the writing.
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 4: Well, let me throw something else at you. I think,
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 4: and this is what I believe about their strategy, is
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 4: unlike the Marvel movies, who pretty much reference things, and
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 4: you always get a feeling whenever they reference something that, oh,
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 4: that's going to show up later. And not even in
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 4: like a game-breaking way. Like, I mean, when I see
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 4: Howard the Duck, I'm not actually sure. Oh, dear.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 7: But, by the way, I would not be too unhappy
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 7: by Howard the Duck.
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 6: I have no rumblings.
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 4: But anyway.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 6: You know that was a misleading stinger, right? It's actually
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 6: about Adam Warlock. The cocoon. Yes, Adam Warlock. It's all
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 6: about Adam Warlock. The cocoon is in the background. That
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 6: was the swerve.
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 4: It's actually about the cocoon. But here's the difference that
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 4: I want to say is I think that DC is
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 4: so clueless about what they're doing that I think they
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 4: really are just throwing in as many random references to
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 4: things that they don't necessarily.
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 6: Just to make us geeks happy.
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 4: Well, just to say, oh, look, we get continuity because
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 4: there it is in this movie on that wall over there.
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 7: It kind of goes back to it also having an
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 7: appeal to such a big... Like we said earlier, there's
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 7: so many regular, in quotes, people that are getting into
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 7: this now.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 4: They're like, oh, I like that thing. That's a thing.
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 4: If you bring in all these recognizable characters.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 7: Maybe it is cosplay or maybe I want to go
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 7: buy that under the red hood comic that I saw
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 7: at the comic book store. Like maybe is just dropping
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 7: in all these other little pieces for this now massively
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 7: bigger audience that you don't have to worry about the
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 7: hardcore geek showing up because you have all these other
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 7: people that are going to come out if you just.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 7: tease them with the stuff that they've seen at the
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 7: comic book store.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 4: It's all the convention. See, I think they're going to
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 4: drop them in there because they honestly have no idea
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 4: what the next movie they're going to make is. So
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 4: if they need to, they can go the Red Hood direction.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 4: If they need to, they can go the Bane direction.
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 4: If they need to, they can go the whatever the
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 4: hell else Easter egg they dropped in there that I
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 4: was too bored to notice. You know, I mean, ultimately,
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 4: I honestly don't think any of the action, and I
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 4: guess this is where I come down to, this is
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 4: my most depressed that I've gotten during this bit, is
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 4: that I don't think any of the actions in these
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 4: movies matter.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 7: No, they don't.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 4: Nothing that happens is actually going to influence.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: Any of these.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 6: Why is the death of Superman going to be what
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 6: brings the Justice League together? Think about that for a moment.
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 6: So Superman had to die for you guys to decide
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 6: to get together? Is that what?
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 4: All these characters that we've never met before.
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 6: Batman and Superman are going to put the team together,
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 6: and then Superman's going to show up and be like, oh, hey, guys.
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 6: Good team. Let's do it. Good deal.
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: Diana, you want to be the secretary?
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 4: That'd be great. I'm in my dreams. Yeah, fighting high
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 4: heels and with her lasso sitting there by the typewriter.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 4: Wearing a pencil skirt, you know.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 9: Of course.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 4: Lex Luthor busts in with his power armor. So is
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 4: anybody else really excited about the possibility of a question movie?
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 4: Because that's what I'm hoping for. Sorry, I just threw
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 4: that in there. I've never heard of a question. That's
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 4: what I'm waiting for. I'm waiting for my Adam Warlock movie.
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 4: I'm waiting for my question movie and then. and I'll
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 4: be able to die at 30 as a happy man.
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 7: I don't think it matters because I think this, as
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 7: soon as they announced that this was being.
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 4: Made, I was like, well, that's it. It's the end
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 4: of days.
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 7: The apocalypse is coming for a very specific reason.
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 4: In I Am Legend, the only way we knew it
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 4: was in.
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 7: The future because there's a giant logo up there of
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 7: Batman versus Superman.
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, well, zombies are coming now.
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 6: Which is ironic because that's another movie that did not
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 6: care about its source material. Nobody cared about their source material.
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 4: All we had to do was not make the movie.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 6: Zombies wouldn't show up.
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 4: Bad CG zombies wouldn't kill us all.
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 6: Like I said, I'm a huge comic book fan in general.
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 6: And for me, I've resigned it to myself already that
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 6: I'm just going to have to love the animated version.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 6: universe when it comes to DC the animated stuff is
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 6: so awesome it makes me so happy.
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 1: A good message for us all I just wish they'd.
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 6: Nail it on film too because you should be able
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 6: to I mean the animated stuff is so good it's
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 6: so compelling I love I'm constantly pushing all the DC
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 6: animated stuff and my friends like really there's good great
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 6: stuff being made it's just not going in theaters that
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 6: there's ever been I cannot I forget the name of
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 6: it what's the Superman one where the it's like almost
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 6: like the Avengers of Europe come over and they're hanging
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 6: out in the city and they're kind of jerks. But
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 6: do you remember all the trouble he went through to
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 6: make it look like he was killing people? Because even
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 6: they were like, you don't kill.
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 4: What are you going to do?
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 6: You don't kill. And he goes through all this drama
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 6: then to make it look like he's killing people. And
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 6: they immediately crap their pants.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 4: And they're like, whoa.
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 6: Superman kills. And I'm like, that's why for me as
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 6: a comic book reader, it's so hard. to meet you halfway,
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 6: it's like, I've seen Superman bend over backwards not to kill,
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 6: and he kills a dude in the first five minutes
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 6: of this one. That dude that was holding Lois, that
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 6: went through three walls, he dead.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 4: He dead, okay? And for like, again, there's no way, yeah.
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 4: By the way, why are there so many brick walls?
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 4: There's like 20. There's like 20 that he busts through.
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 4: I thought they were in this little compound in the
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 4: middle of the desert, but he breaks through multiple walls
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 4: in a downtown Manhattan building.
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 6: The same argument where Martha was talking about Paul Kent
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 6: being the man that Paul Kent told you to be,
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 6: she's also doing a thing where she's like, you're not
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 6: a killer. She looks at him and she's like petting
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 6: him in the ear. She's like, you're not a killer.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 6: You're not a killer. It's like, we just watched him
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 6: kill people. You can't tell us he's not a killer
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 6: when in the exact same movie, we've watched him, like,
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 6: just because mom says you're not a killer doesn't mean
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 6: now you're magically not. But that's what did it for him.
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 6: That's when he's like, I'm not a killer. It's almost
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 6: like he got, that's when he, that was the conversation
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 6: where he revealed himself again to the public. And I'm like,
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 6: Because your mom lied to you, you feel okay now?
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 4: Of murdering people.
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: Of murdering people, yeah.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 4: Again, I think that's our only hope. We're the Green
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 4: River Killer. We both kind of.
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: I'm better now.
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 7: Our hope is TV and animated. And maybe at some
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 7: point they'll pass this off.
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 4: To somebody who can do a better job.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 5: That's our only hope.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 4: Coming out of this. Well, I still have hope for
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 4: the Wonder Woman movie. And I have hope. See, my
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 4: belief is always with these superhero movies that the more
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 4: out there you go, and this is the paradox that
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of studios haven't embraced is is
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 4: the more out there you go, actually you have a
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 4: better chance for returns.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 6: She's like, Guardians of the Galaxy surprised everyone.
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 4: Well, I looked at that movie and I was like, seriously,
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 4: you don't think the movie with the talking tree and
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 4: talking raccoon is gonna be first on every small child's
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 4: list of things to see this summer? Yeah. I believe
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 4: that these movies, the more they try to pull away
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 4: from the dark, the gritty, the quote-unquote realistic in the
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 4: sense of a 14-year-old boy's idea of what New York
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 4: looks like. Ultimately, what you're trying to draw into is
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 4: you're trying to draw into a world of imaginations. And
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 4: imagination is always about incitement and excitement. It's always about
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 4: inspiring people to think beyond the planes of what they
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 4: usually see. And if you do imagination well, as in
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 4: many of the Avengers movies, then ultimately you wind up
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 4: with this film that everyone can kind of buy into
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 4: because it becomes for everyone their own separate dream, you know,
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 4: rather than trying to force some major dream on everybody
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 4: in any event. So when I look at the Wonder
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 4: Woman movie, I'm like, hey, if we get like a
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 4: Xena movie out of this, then that might actually be
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 4: a starting point. Believe it or not, the paradox of
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 4: these movies might be that the DC film universe starts terribly,
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 4: but then as soon as they make the Xena movie,
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 4: it starts gradually climbing out of the muck. It's Mission Impossible.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 7: It took them two to get going, and they get
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 7: really good.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so anyway, that's my hope going forward is that
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 4: sometime in all of these revisions, at some point, they're
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 4: actually going to try to really go for broke, imaginatively,
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 4: with one of these films. And I think the Wonder
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 4: Woman movie could do it. So, you know.
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 1: Yay, Wonder Woman.
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 4: That's our hope. Wonder Woman might actually save the day.
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 4: Even though I've never bought one of her comics.
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I know.
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 7: Now that will change your mind.
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what's going to do it. Wonder Girl. We'll
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 4: leave it at that and allow you to escape.
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: Cool.
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 4: We want to thank you for joining us on this. Oh,
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 4: thanks for having me. Epic journey that we've taken here.
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 7: I guess what you've got so many things in the works,
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 7: what's the best way for people to keep up with
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 7: you or see what you've got coming up next?
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I have this spiel down pat. Okay, follow
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at Jenna Bush. You
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 1: can go on to Legion of Leia, my website. That's
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: Legion of Leia everywhere on social media. Star Wars Psychology
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 1: is out in stores now. Captain America vs. Iron Man psychology,
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: Game of Thrones psychology, both coming out April 24th. Star
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 1: Trek psychology comes out in June. Doctor Who psychology comes
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: out in October. We have another one in the works.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: I think you guys will like, but we can't say
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: what it is yet. You can watch Most Craved on
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 1: Legion of Leia, coming soon,. net, Crave Online, and Superhero Hype.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: And I think that's... Oh, and if you want to
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: watch the show I used to do with Stan Lee,
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 1: it's called Cocktails with Stan.
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 4: You're such a slacker. I need to get you some
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 4: more work.
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm wearing a time turner right now.
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 5: We just.
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, Jenna Bush liked the beer, not the president.
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: That's right. This is the first time I've forgotten to
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: say it. I'm glad my sister is here.
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 6: Awesome.
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 4: Thanks, sis. Did you get her the time tuner, too?
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: She got it herself.
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 4: Only use it for good, Jenna, please.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 1: I will only use it for good.
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 4: Like Hermione.
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 1: Like Hermione.
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 7: Well, in the middle of all that, I do want
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 7: to thank you for sitting in and joining us. You
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 7: obviously have a lot going on, so thank you for
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 7: taking the time to discuss this crazy movie.
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 4: Otherwise, I think that about does it, so. We will
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 4: return next week. Same Geek Feed. Thanks for listening.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 11: I don't think I can handle this anymore.
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 9: A cloud of day in the tropics. I think I'll
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 9: talk to my analyst.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 4: I got so baffled.
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 9: The pseudo-journalist is driving up the ball into the roof. No,
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 9: I say clocking in, telephone booth.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going.
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 13: Out of my brain. I've got a cell phone, phone.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 13: Little miss, nice rain.
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 9: Oh, nice rain, be good in your plan. Yeah, nice rain,
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 9: you don't need no Superman. Come on downtown and stay
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 9: with me tonight.
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 11: I've got a pocket footer.
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 9: We'll be right back. And I'm in a six here
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 9: in my place downtown. Come on downtown and make love
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 9: to me. I'm doing awesome, I'm tired to say.
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 4: He's faster than a bullet, stronger than a train.
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 9: So when you got lucky, you gotta keep the promise.
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 11: No, that's right.
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 4: I can't believe my dilemma isn't real.
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 9: I got a pocket full of kryptonite I got a
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 9: pocket full of kryptonite I don't think I can handle
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 9: this Looking at it being.
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 13: Metropolis I think I've talked to my analyst That got
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 13: so baffled to the journalist Last week before in your planner.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 9: I don't need a Superman Come on, that's how to
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 9: stay with me I've got a pocket full.
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 14: Of Regardless, it's like when you're watching these movies and
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 14: they're like, oh, look, big ideas.
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, every time you speak, I just get
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 4: more confused. Because you don't know what you're saying, but
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 4: what you're saying makes me stop and go, wait, wait, what? Yeah. Okay.
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 5: This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 5: edited by the Auditude Studios, with the opening music performed
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 5: by the Empires. For more on how to sponsor or
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 5: support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 2: Talk hard!