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Teaching Players a Smarter Way · UNCOACHED

• Brad: Welcome to Uncoached, a podcast for volunteer coaches and parents figuring out youth sports as we go. Each episode, we keep things simple: five questions to talk about practical insights you can actually use with your youth athletes. Today's guest is Tim Maycock from ScoPro Soccer. Tim is a longtime coach and an educator who's passionate about helping coaches teach the game more effectively. Through years of working with players and coaches, he saw firsthand how better communication and preparation can completely change the way young athletes learn. That passion eventually led him to create ScoPro, a company focused on giving coaches innovative tools to teach the game in a more visual and engaging way. Today, we're gonna talk about what great coaching really looks like, how kids learn best, and some simple ways coaches can help players develop. Tim, I appreciate you being here. Thanks so much. I love your product, I love your background, and I would just ask you to do me a favor and give the listeners a little bit from your perspective. tim: Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. Really excited to be here. Yeah for me I've been coaching for twenty years all type. I started out at Sonoma State as a volunteer assistant for eight years. Stayed around the California area and was a director for a couple different clubs, including a merger of two clubs. And then eventually moved out to Arizona, where I coached for CCV out here in Arizona. but yeah, I started this company about twelve years ago. At the time, there really wasn't any type of coaching board on the market. If it was, it was a very cheap one, and none of them had numbered magnets at the time. Which in Northern California, we were really talking about position numbers so one through eleven, and that just wasn't there. And so I thought "How can I create this?" I ended up creating a notepad that kinda had verbiage for Northern California coaches. It had a lot of success. A lot of customers bought custom ones, and I always knew I wanted boards and magnets, and so eventually it sold enough and came out with magnets, sold out right away, and then eventually came out with the board. And so now I got the whole magnets and now I after all these years, I actually have other sports, so it's been quite a grind for the last fifteen years. Brad: I love the... Your boards always come with a variety of colors a- and number schemes like you talked about, so it's you're all about the visual element of coaching, which I think often gets a little bit overlooked when you're in the heat of battle of, running a practice or even in a game because so many kids are different types of learners visual being a big one, and we'll jump into that. But you went through your background in coaching, such a great resume. Looking back, what was some of the biggest challenges you kept running into that made you think there's got to be a better way to teach this game and get my point across to players? tim: Y-yeah, I would have to say it's the coming out with the board. We used to just kinda put cones down and, but it didn't really show the dimensions of the field sections of the field that you need to be at. and then just having that, that board be able to show the players. I know for me, I was a visual learner. So it r-really helped out just showing where you could position the magnets, and they'd freely move. And then I put the colors out to hopefully match whatever colors are for your team or close. So yeah, that's kinda, kinda what we did with the product, Brad: no, that's good. And, I've come to learn in the years I've coached as well that I kinda categorize learning from the athletes into three categories. There's those that like to see, those that like to hear the instruction, and then those that need to do it in order for it to to take hold. And I'll be honest, the older I get, the less I can do for the kids and actually, do the things that they're, that I want them to do at the speed and the pace that I want them to do. And it's so nice to have a visual aid like that to approach with a board because I... even though these kids learn different ways and maybe in one of those three categories, I think a combination of those things is always your best bet. It might be a kid that likes to do it on their own, but being able to see it before they do it is just gonna add to their experience and maybe even the speed in which they pick it up. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, because of the ability to mix in some more visual elements, have you seen athletes pick things up quicker? tim: Yeah I think for sure. I think it's really tough to get your point across without having some type of visual aid. Kids can go through the process and you could tell them what to do, but, without like placing them like on a sp- specific spot on the field, it might be tough to do. If it was just cones or if you're just like, "Hey," pointing, "You need to go here, move here, you need to work off the nine and 10 here," it'd be very difficult to do, Brad: in your experience that helped you kinda create this, this board, were you running into situations where you're like, I'm explaining this verbally and I don't feel like you're getting it right now, and I wish I had something in hand to try to show you without being able to see the whole field at one time"? Is that kinda your mindset that went into the product itself? You had a little bit of challenge there in that regard? tim: yeah, definitely. It's weird. I guess I played 20, 22 years ago in college, and we-- there really wasn't even coaching boards at the time then. but yeah, I think being able to have something to see would've been very helpful, at the time, Brad: Yeah, for sure. And I know your years of playing experience, your years of coaching what are some things, you know, what separates players who simply know the game from players who can actually read and anticipate what's going on around them? And is, in your opinion, are there things coaches can intentionally teach that drive that skill? tim: Yeah, I think it's soccer IQ the biggest thing. I think that lacks in a lot of players. I think players that actually watch the game, watch pros I think a lot of our youth players get the ball, quickly play. They don't see the future and what's gonna happen next. So body shape scanning, looking side to side before you even get the ball, having an idea of what you're gonna do before the pass comes, I think separates players. You could be an athlete. You could strike the ball well. You could score goals, but, like how do you advance yourself? And if you watch a player like Messi, he's, scanning, finding the right spots to move into. Sometimes he's just walking around and just waiting for that moment to get the ball in the right spot. I think that separates great players. Obviously, athleticism and speed, ability is huge. You gotta have that as well to be elite, Brad: For sure. And this summer w- with the World Cup I hope, I've tried to talk my players into making sure they're intentional about watching games, just not, trying to check out the score and see if their favorite player's scoring goals or winning games. Because I have a challenge with that too the ability for the soccer IQ or the game IQ. Because my team very much runs, south to north. We're going up the field in one direction. We don't oftentimes take the time to bring it back, right? You- How many times in a game is, are you bringing the ball back to set something up to go forward and you're switching fields? And I think that takes a little bit of visual awareness to see that in a game. I think, the product that you have w- would help that as well, just to visually showcase, hey, you're on one side of the field and the players are being sucked into that side on defense. You have an outlet to go back that you can send it across the field and make some strategic plays to make it easier on yourself. And I s- I'm still challenged with my team. It's something we're gonna work on here coming up at the end of the summer and in the fall. But certainly looking forward to trying to drive a little bit of that soccer IQ. And I think, y- you've probably heard some good feedback from your board that's helping to provide that type of IQ. And I know you've got, beyond soccer too it's the same for hockey or basketball. You have to have that visual element to help drive that IQ, right? tim: Totally. Totally. Yeah, with with the pro game it's definitely a different type of game, the field's obviously Brad: Sure. tim: than a typical youth field. The speed they play at, the, So the ball has to move side to side and backwards. And especially teams that sit in, with eight defenders, eight or nine defenders, it's really tough to break unless the ball's moving quickly. In the youth game here, you just, you see a lot of going forward, it's not a lot of patience swinging the ball. But I think that's a lot of it's IQ. A lot of our players still watch, football, still American football, still watch baseball, still watch basketball. Brad: Yeah tim: soccer's still, not watched as much as it should be for top soccer players, Brad: Yeah, I agree. And I, one tip I give other coaches and parents is have them watch other sports because I also grew up playing hockey, and hockey's one of the original sports where you're bringing the puck back and you've got a point position that's driving the setup on a lot of these things, where you've got like a hub and spoke type model with a player distributing things and hockey's great at that. And so, like I'll encourage my players and other coaches to have their players watch another sport to get this type of IQ as well tim: Oh I love that. I think there's so much similarities between hockey soccer basketball especially even lacrosse. The ball has to move. If you watch like the Golden State Warriors, may- maybe the best team in NBA history, but the ball... or maybe the Spurs back in the early 2000s, the ball moved quickly, and s- and that's how it has to happen in soccer. You gotta move it quickly to find open space, then you could attack the space. It's very key. Same with basketball. You're finding that open that quick ball movement to find that open shot, Brad: Yeah. tim: is very similar, Brad: Yep, absolutely. You got a split second to make a couple of touches, and then you need to start dishing it out. so in your coaching experience, one of the hardest parts isn't really always like drawing up a drill, it's keeping these youth athletes engaged while you're trying to teach them. So what are some things that a good youth coach can do to help keep kids thinking and learning instead of just standing around, maybe they're messing around? Maybe you've got some, a tip or trick you've used with some of your athletes in the past to keep them focused on what you're trying to teach them. tim: Yeah. So number one, don't have lines when you do drills. That's very key. Set up drills where they're not waiting around. So and then also set up drills where they actually have to use their brain, where things have to switch or quickly move into other actions on the field. The-- all those things are key to... even in a warmup, you could do a little creative warmup where, they're bouncing one ball and passing another ball just to get their brains working. Brain activity is so key. I prob- probably in all sports, but got- you gotta be able to use the brain i-in soccer Brad: Yeah, that's great. I actually-- One thing I'll do too is I'll assign a couple of my players to create a drill or to work as a team to, "Let's you guys make a drill," right? "You've got 15 minutes right now to run through, This is the, this is what we're trying to do. We're trying to work on getting open or finding free space. You guys create a drill real quick, get together, and then let's run it." So it gets them thinking about the game situation and trying to get-- it gets them thinking about, how they would like to do a drill, and it's fun sometimes with the, what they come up with. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's terrible, but it's a fun way to keep them engaged too. tim: F- free play is good. Any- anything on the field is good. B- back in the... I don't see teams do it as much anymore, but back in the day, we used to play handball. And You had two steps, almost kinda like basketball rules, and you could only score with your head- header. But it really showed good movement off the ball. Anything along those lines, get them thinking i- is great Brad: Oh, that's good. W- and would you do that on the soccer field? Yeah tim: at soccer practice, yeah. That as maybe like a warmup or something. It was a go-to for camps about 20 years ago, Brad: I like it. I'll probably steal that, 'cause I imagine you take away the dribbling with your feet aspect and you're just holding a ball and passing it. tim: Correct Brad: I don't know why it's so complicated sometimes when you're dribbling, but y- you're holding the ball, you can get open a little bit quicker, and you're probably finding that free space like you talk about, so it makes a lot of sense tim: And it frees up their brains too, it's, that's why soccer players are such good athletes. You take a group of us soccer players, we could run a basketball court because w- we could do things with our feet, which is much harder to do than with your hands, Brad: Absolutely. There's l- there's a lot more agility when it comes to some of the soccer, skill and technique than it than it lends itself to other sports. I- we're living that in our house. We talked before we jumped on here, but my- we're big into soccer, but also basketball as well, and baseball, and it's funny how you see these things translate from sport to sport. And, maybe a side topic here, but I'm a huge proponent of multi-sport type play for that very reason, because you're just picking up different skills from different sports. What's your experience with that? Maybe just, off the cuff thinking. tim: So I would say if you talk to most soccer coaches they really want you playing soccer probably by the age of thir- but I love other sports. I think it really helps for soccer. I think it creates some movements that you wouldn't see on the soccer field, some strength that you wouldn't get from from just soccer. But I love it. I'm a big fan of kids playing other sports, Brad: For sure tim: I think maybe m- maybe by 15, maybe you should focus on soccer or other but I would say like maybe something like running or track. I don't think it goes well with so- after you're putting a lot of pounding on your body when you're doing that plus soccer. But yeah, like something like basketball I think is awesome. Brad: There's probably a difference of geography here too a little bit because I know you're in some great weather area there in, in Arizona and California where you're, you have the opportunity to do these things year-round. I'm in the Midwest where we've got, we've got the, the full four seasons, and so winter h- winter it's kinda hard to play soccer unless you're indoor and that's just, I don't know, it's just a different experience when you're indoor verse being outside. Yeah, I'm a little jealous about where you're at. tim: Very blessed with our weather, for Brad: Yeah. Yeah. tim: I think we average 77 degrees in our w- winter months, December, January, Brad: it's terrible. It's terrible tim: the... We actually do break here in Arizona, though, in the summertime 'cause it's, Brad: oh, it's... tim: too hot to play, Brad: Oh, I'm sure, right? It's extremely hot. You're in desert there, so yeah, ma- makes a lot of tim: Yeah. Brad: sense. Yeah. I, tim: Yeah. I like it personally, but yes, it is hot. Brad: I'm still jealous even at your summertime 'cause we've got a lot of humidity around my area, and it's just, I can't stand it. Yeah, you don't. I think I would... I think I would trade the 115-degree day for the 95 and humid here any day of the week, I think it's, just a different feel. It's just a different feel. A lot of those soccer players at the World Cup, they got to feel some of that. They were playing in Kansas City and I know even New Jersey was a little humid m- more so than it typically is. So let's get back to the, the topic at hand here. If we want players to become better decision-makers, how should we coaches balance giving instruction with letting athletes figure things out for themselves? So it's this balance of, "Hey, I need to tell you what to do," versus, "I need you to figure it out on your own so you learn." Your opinion what's that balance look like? tim: I think it's tough. A lot of the new coaching is they, want it more free-flowing, let them play, let them figure it out on their own. But I also think you have to let them know in certain instances if things aren't going well. But, like, when I try to-- When I stop an exercise, I'll try to stop it with a question. "Hey Amy why did you see this?" Or, "What do you think you could do differently?" So they're thinking like, "Oh, okay, maybe I could have done this." And then, sometimes I will stop and say, "Hey, we need to do this right away." But I think it's good to let them think and, kinda get it on their own. But I think just no coaching at all it might be a little tough, unless you have really high-level athletes that have high-level IQ, the um, that... But otherwise, I've never experienced 11 with high IQ in all the years of coaching. Brad: Or at least on the same page, right? tim: or four or Brad: Yeah. Yeah. tim: but Brad: Yeah, you never have everybody all at that p- premium level of they all understand everything at all times. tim: Correct Brad: and I like your approach, and I like your question or your posing of that question to the player because it puts the ball back in their court, and it makes them think through, "Hey, what was I seeing there, and why did I make that decision that I made?" And they're thinking through it a little bit more rather than you just jumping in, saying, "Hey, that was wrong. You don't need to do that. This is the way I want you to do it." So I totally appreciate that approach. I also agree with you. I think, as coaches, you have to show multiple times what you... and talk about what you want them to do before they can execute it and trial and error on their side to learn. I think you, you're just, you have to give that guidance first and then maybe take a step back and then reevaluate where things are at. But I'm with you. It's gotta be a healthy mix of giving guidance, knowing when to step back a little bit and let them experience it, and then jumping back in and have that conversation like you posed, the question back to the athlete tim: For sure. And, I think some parents think they wanna hear from their coaches, I don't... and I know some coaches that just sit back and most of these coaches are, they're very good and they do have excellent training, and their teams are very good, but, if you don't have all that, I think parents wanna hear you coach a little bit, they don't want you to sit there and j- just watch. The, but, that's kinda my opinion on things. It's probably not everybody's, but Brad: I, no I would agree. There's it's become a, a, a big business these days, and folks are paying a lot of money to be part of these organizations, and they wanna make sure that they're getting some good instruction. So I agree with you. Maybe a side question here too. I'll give you my opinion first. I love having parents close to the field, and I like h- having them hear the instruction that's going on. I've heard the opposite way where some folks, they would rather those parents be away while they have time with the athletes and there's not that distraction, which I get. I totally get both sides. But I kinda like them there so that they can hear what's going on and maybe try to r- you know, iterate and reiterate that same topic at home when the kid's working at home. Maybe you could tell me what do you think about that? tim: Yeah I, I'm actually probably opposite. So in California, we were on the opposite sides. Then I came to Arizona, and I most of the time it's on the same side with the parents. For me I'm very intense, and I can get yelling at my team to really get them motivated. So I want that kind of... N- not that I'm, like, putting them down or anything, but I'm very intense, and I want them understand wh- what's going on without the parents like, "Oh, he's yelling at them," Brad: sure tim: I found out I think most of the kids actually enjoy the intensity even though it, it can be intense. So but that's kinda my opinion on it. Brad: Got tim: I would say Brad: it. Yeah tim: most coaches s- would probably want their parents on the other side, if I had to guess. Brad: Yeah, if we're talking game, if we're talking game, I want the parents on the o- I want them away, right? I don't want them near... Not 'cause I'm saying anything. I don't, I just don't want the distraction. I don't want the things that they're saying to affect the players. I was, maybe from my perspective it's more that practice environment. I'm okay with them kinda sitting around and hearing what's going on. tim: Yeah, I thought we were referring to... Brad: Yeah. Sorry. tim: And the practice you can't really control Brad: Sure. tim: They could be right next to you, Brad: Yeah tim: Unless you have an exclusive field like some clubs do. But but yeah I think in Arizona they changed the rule because parents were really attacking referees. Brad: Oh, sure. I'm sure tim: I think that's why they put them on the same side. And they're very strict in Arizona if like your parents are yelling at the referee, they'll give us a card. so it allowed us to control the parents, in that Brad: Yeah, I can see that. It makes sense. It's it's sad we have to control the adults on the field more than the kids sometimes. tim: that's probably true, for sure. Brad: So speaking of parents, naturally they notice things like goals and assists and the Ws that the team's getting. But as a coach, what are some of the small improvements you're watching that tell you if a player's actually developing, even if it doesn't necessarily show up on the scoreboard or, that game score sheet? tim: Yeah, im-impacting the game in other ways. Whenever I'm coaching, my biggest thing is, and every team I've coached will tell you this, is work rate. H-how hard you're working. And typically, when work rate is there, results, normally follow. Not always, but I don't care if we lose, if we compete and work hard. I wanna see players compete. what happens when we lose the ball? Are we getting the ball back? Are we get-- or at least getting behind the ball in position to defend. Pass completion. Can you complete passes? Can you get stuck in and make a tackle? Sometimes you could be just playing terribly. You can't complete a pass. You missed a chance. You're constantly turning over, but you go and you get stuck and you make a tackle, and it changes the game. It raises the level for the team. That's-- y-you can always control your work rate. You can't control the other things, but you can change games no matter what, how you're playing. You can always make an impact on the game Brad: Yeah, no, that's great. And I wonder I'm just gonna ... i'm tossing this to you, and I don't know if there's any, any validity to it or not. Something I do on our team, and I like to see that work, but I'll actually reward the work in practice with our MVP-type medal, and I'm talking about 10-year-old kids, and I'm sure you've coached older youth than that, and they probably don't need that motivation. But a lot of teams tend to give that big old MVP chain during a game. I choose to do it at practice, 'cause that's where I really wanna see that work being put in. Of course, you want it t- to translate to the game, too, but I really wanna see it at practice. I'm just wondering, is there anything that you've used to help motivate that work in your coaching career? And it doesn't have to be a medal. It could be something else tim: No, I actually really haven't, but I have seen coaches do what you talked about, and I really like that for the younger age groups because, practice can be tough. Like for myself, like I wasn't a good practicer. I was always a gamer. I wish I was a better practicer. Maybe I could have played at a higher level if my practice habits were better. So I think it's very important for which is interesting 'cause like it-- when I coach it's always intense, but like my practice habits as a player weren't nearly as Brad: Sure tim: But yeah I love that rewarding practice merits because, it's gonna really translate to the game. But, at the same time, there are players who just bring it every practice who can't sh-show it in the games. But yes, you're typically gonna be a better player if you're working hard in every practice and always trying to get better Brad: Yeah. And y- and you've got a long resume of coaching in your career. Is there anything that's completely changed your mind about the way you approach coaching or the way that you approach the sport, or, just anything that you've seen a shift in yourself from, say, 10 or 15 years ago to where you're at today and how you approach things? tim: I would say for me, I really haven't approached... My approach is not much different, but I think I am not as concerned about or let it affect the losing and winning. Used to bother me. Now it's just all about the work rate. I would say on the player side just how good they've gotten. These players that's the biggest change for me. It's like I don't think there's any chance I could have played college soccer now. it is, if you're playing any level, JC, NAI D2 D3, you're a player now. And th- these, these players are so good. But, I d- I would say it's a different game. It's a lot like basketball in the sense where it's not, the physicality's not there, I think there's a spot in the game for that still. But it's that where you could impact a game by being physical like a Draymond Green right now changes the game. I think it could happen in soccer, too. It's just a different game, though. Brad: Yeah, it's it's funny you say that 'cause I, I was thinking the same thing just watching World Cup. Obviously completely different level of play, but how physical the game is at that level, and I don't know that anybody's really teaching that physicality at the youth age, at least that I've seen. You'll run into some teams that are a little bit more physical. They know how to play a body first and then worry about the ball second kind of thing when they're defending. But I do think it's a lost talent. I agree with you, and I think there could be a little bit more physicality as we let these kids age up from, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 to get them used to it. Because I imagine even at the collegiate level they could stand to have a little bit more physicality as well tim: Definitely. It's, it's, it definitely is a lost art, but some of my favorite players I've coached, probably my least skilled players or... but they're simple and they understand who they are as a player, but very, just good ball winners and get it and they play it. Yeah, so yeah, it's, I don't know how you bring the physicality back. There's some exercises you could do, but at the same time you don't want kids sliding and Brad: I don't know tim: someone's ankle in practice. But it also, you have to learn how to do it. We, when I remember when I was a kid I think I learned how to slide tackle because of baseball. Brad: Yep tim: And I don't think a lot of these kids are playing as much baseball as used, as they used to be, but it would help in slide tackling for sure Brad: Absolutely. Yeah, no doubt about it. I think, the way I'd answer this for myself personally, and I just w- I wanted to give my perspective on what's changed my mind is and it relates to your product actually, is taking time to not give constant instruction in the moment, but taking an opportunity during that quiet time to really have a conversation about what took place, and oftentimes using a visual aid to help describe, what you saw as a coach that the player was doing and how they could potentially improve. That time where it's a little bit more quiet, emotions are lower, you're not pumped up on adrenaline in that moment, and you have an opportunity to take them aside and really try to make a change. I think that's helped me get through to a lot more players and I just, I've appreciated learning that in my coaching career, as I've advanced as well tim: Yeah, that, that totally makes sense. I wanted to add something on the biggest change as well. Video. Back when I played, we had, VCR cameras, whatever, you know, and ta- you couldn't really see the... But now the video technology, I think almost every big club films now. the ability to see yourself on film is, I think, is very key. I think it could really benefit you and make you a better player. Be like, "Hey, you're not working here," "You're not sliding in," and, I th- the colleges are really actually using video a lot now, where back in the day it really wasn't a thing we recruited on. but now they could actually s- see a lot more, a lot better like stats, on the video a- and positioning, and before it was just so far away and it just, you couldn't even tell who it was, so Brad: Yeah, for sure. And it's instant feedback too, You're right. I, I probably grew up in the same era as you, but VHS, you have to go back and look at that tape and rewind it and blah, blah, blah. But now you can have a friend on the sideline record something or a parent record something quickly of part of the game, and you can get that instant feedback even right after the game. So that's a cool, that's a cool add tim: Even like the new cameras, like for the I think each one of our teams require one. They can pinpoint you when it's filming. It's pretty crazy Brad: Yeah. tim: there's really no excuse to watch yourself now Brad: Yeah, it's pretty amazing how far technology's come, for sure tim: Definitely Brad: Tim a wealth of knowledge. I, y- like I mentioned at the beginning of this, your background is outstanding. Your experience that you've got, coaching over years and educating players is outstanding, and I appreciate you sharing, your insight and the, the information that you shared with us today. I also appreciate very much yourentrepreneurship and the product that you built with ScoPro. I think it's a fantastic visual aid. I can't wait to start using one with my team. At this point I'd love for you to have an opportunity to share with the listeners where they can learn more about you, where they can find more about your products. So please help me out with where folks can learn more about you. tim: Yeah. Once again, thanks for having me. This is, definitely an honor to be on this show. So you could order our products at skoproproducts.com, so that's products with an S, or skoprosoccer.com. Both links will take you to the same spot. and we have a, We're on Instagram at, @skoproproducts. Um, So yeah I, I love to hear from my customers as well. We do club deals so if you have a, five or more coaches and you wanna order for all your coaches, we will take care of you guys with discounts there. But yeah just love hearing from you guys. I'm easy to reach. I do everything out of my garage. No employees. I'm just trying to create a good product for coaches out there Brad: Yeah, and it's tested and proved, through your own hands and through many other hands. And so I appreciate, I highly encourage folks to check them out. So please give Sko Pro a look. And I'd say, if this episode helped you out, share it with another coach or parent who's figuring it out too. You can find Uncoached and this episode wherever you listen to podcasts. You can watch the episode on YouTube, and make sure to follow the Coaching Dad on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook. We'll see you next