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Stop Calling Yourself a Sinner · Accidental Bible Scholar

• Jeff Ward: Okay, hello. I'm Jeff Ward here with Randy Spear. Welcome back to the Accidental Bible Scholar Podcast. We are glad you're here. This is episode number 42. We just wrapped up Ephesians, the entire book of Ephesians, and specifically spiritual warfare. Several great lessons. remember we release episodes on Thursdays. If you have any questions for us, you can email us at contact at accidentalbiblescholar.com. Inperson participant 1: Okay, hello, I'm Jeff Ford here with Randy Spear. Welcome back to the Accidental Bible Scholar Podcast. We are glad you're here. This is episode number 42. We just wrapped up Ephesians, the entire book of Ephesians, and specifically spiritual warfare. Several great lessons. remember we release episodes on Thursdays. If you have any questions for us, you can email us at contact at accidental bible scholar.com. Jeff Ward: you can find our website. Inperson participant 1: Find our website, Jeff Ward: www.accentobiblescholar dot com. That has links to the all the podcasts and or you can find them on any of your normal podcast platforms. I think that's it. So we're going to talk about book of the Bible today and in the future we're gonna look at going through Genesis, but today we're gonna look at Inperson participant 1: www.accidentalbiblescholar.com. That has links to the all the podcasts. or you can find them on any of your normal podcast platforms. I think that's it. So we're gonna talk about book of the Bible today. And in the future we're gonna look at going through Genesis, but today we're gonna look at Jeff Ward: Romans chapter six. That might change the order, but today we're gonna do Romans chapter six. Inperson participant 1: chapter six yeah that might change the order but yeah today we're gonna do Romans chapter six Okay yeah I just been we're kinda this transition we're about to we've finished up Ephesians, about start Genesis and we might I don't know when Jeff we release this one in order or not but it doesn't matter but just kinda been on my heart to talk through Romans six and talk through basically that we are free from the Jeff Ward: been we're kinda this transition we're about to we've finished up Ephesians, about start Genesis. And we I don't know when Jeff will release this one in order or not, but it doesn't matter. But just kind of been on my heart to talk through Romans six and talk through basically that we are free from Inperson participant 1: power of sin. We are free from sin. We are dead to sin. Jeff Ward: sin. Inperson participant 1: And the reason what got me started on this, you've you know, in our previous podcast, I've talked Jeff Ward: And the reason what got me started on this, you've you know, in our previous podcast, I've talked Inperson participant 1: about and kind of hinted at it throughout the broad podcast about how born again followers of Jesus Christ are righteous. We are made right before God as a gift because of the work of Jesus Christ and his shed blood on the cross. And all these other things that we just talked about in Ephesians one. So I won't rehash that. the the thing that I'm keen or that Jeff Ward: About how born-again followers of Jesus Christ are righteous. We are made right before God as a gift because of the work of Jesus Christ and his ship blow on the cross. And all these other things that we just talked about in Ephesians 1. So I'll rehash that. the the thing that I'm keen or that pricks my ears when I hear believers call themselves sinners, I'm like, well, don't do that. And it sounds very humbling. Inperson participant 1: pricks my ears when I hear believers call themselves sinners. I'm like, well, don't do that. And it sounds very humbling and it sounds very or very humble to do that. But in fact it's unbelief because there is no crossover. There's no overlap between somebody who's righteous and somebody who's a sinner. we'll read in a minute just a hint you know, we were sinners because Adam sinned and then of course we earned the title. Jeff Ward: it sounds very or very humble to do that, but in fact it's unbelief because there is no crossover, there's no overlap between somebody who's righteous and somebody who's a sinner. we'll read in a minute just a hint, you know, we were sinners because Adam sinned and then of course we earned the title. Inperson participant 1: And then we were made righteous because Jesus obeyed. Jeff Ward: And then we were made righteous because Jesus obeyed. Inperson participant 1: And that's the crux of it. we don't aren't sinners because we sin. It's the other way around. We sin because we're sinners. And so but then and we've discussed that and I'm not going to go into a lot of that. Jeff Ward: And that's the crux of it. we don't aren't sinners because we sin. It's the other way around. We sin because we're sinners. And so but the and we've discussed that and I'm not gonna go into a lot of Inperson participant 1: But the what I do wanna go in because then the next thing I hear is this idea, whether it's said or thought or expressed in different ways is that that I just Jeff Ward: But what I do want to go in, because then the next thing I hear is this idea, whether it's said or thought or expressed different ways, is that that I just there's no solution to sin until I die. So I sin all the time and there's nothing I can do, and I'm probably sinning now, and and you sin and I sin, we all sin and just can't get rid of it. And I'm like, no. The gospel actually revives the power out of sin. And Romans chapter six is a great chapter. Inperson participant 1: There's no solution to sin until I die. So I sin all the time and there's nothing I can do. And I'm probably sinning now. And and you sin and I sin. We all sin and just can't get rid of it. And I'm like, no, there the gospel actually revises the power out of sin. And Romans chapter six is a great chapter. And we'll just go through the whole chapter fairly rapidly. We're not going to do a deep dive, very, very many things, except one or two words. We'll take a look at the the meanings of. Jeff Ward: And we'll just go through the whole chapter fairly rapidly. We're not going to do a deep dive, very, very many things, except one or two words. We'll take a look at the the meanings of. But but we have actually been, the gospel frees us from the power of sin. And we can and should live that out. I'm gonna read some verses just to startle us in here in just a second or have Jeff read some verses. Inperson participant 1: But but we have actually been the gospel frees us from the power of sin. And we can and should live that out. I'm gonna read some verses just to startle us in here in just a second or have Jeff read some verses. I want to cause one thing. First of all, when you start talking like this, the religious side of our brain will start firing off. And if you're a person who is or the if there is a person who is Jeff Ward: I want to cause one thing. First of all, when you start talking like this, the religious side of our brain will start firing off. And if you're a person who is or the if there is a person who is tends to be religious, this these these kinds of things will be very offensive to them. the idea of truth initially is offensive to you figured out that well it's offensive because you've been you've been harboring this lie mostly unknowingly, unwittingly, unconsciously. Inperson participant 1: tends to be religious, this these these kinds of things will be very offensive to them. the idea of truth initially is offensive till you figured out that, well, it's offensive because you've been you've been harboring this lie mostly unknowingly, unwittingly, unconscious you've been unconsciously harboring a lie that's become a stronghold. So if if this if this discussion irritates you, that's okay. I like Jeff Ward: been unconsciously harboring a lie to become a stronghold. So if i if this if this discussion irritates you, that's okay. I like to be irritated to the degree that it causes me to dig in deeper and figure out what the truth is. Inperson participant 1: To be irritated to a degree that it causes me to dig in deeper and figure out what the truth is. the other thing is, I am not talking, and this is the first thing somebody will do, they'll take take this thought process out of context and use it, turn it around and use it as a weapon. but I'm not talking sinless perfection, which is what Jesus is Jeff Ward: The other thing is, I am not talking, and this is the first thing somebody will do, they'll take take this thought process out of context and use it, turn around and use it as a weapon. but I'm not talking sinless perfection, which is what Jesus is. Inperson participant 1: or was and still is. Jeff Ward: or was and still is. what I what I am talking about is excellence in the area of sin. Freedom in the area of sin. And to the degree that we're not free and we're not achieving excellence, but we are Inperson participant 1: What I what I am talking about is excellence in the area of sin, freedom in the area of sin, and to the degree that we're not free and we're not achieving excellence, but we are but also achieving a progression toward freedom and a progression toward excellence as we grow in Jesus Christ. Jeff Ward: But also achieving a progression toward freedom and a progression toward excellence as we grow in Jesus Christ, Inperson participant 1: As we mature as as followers of his. So the more we get to know him and the and the more we should look like him. John tells us in first John that we will be like him because we will behold him. So as we behold him more, that's the method that we that is designed into creation that moves us along. we become like what we Jeff Ward: as we mature as followers of His. So the more we get to know Him and the more we should look like Him. John tells us in 1 John that we will be like Him because we will behold Him. So as we behold Him more, that's the method that we that is designed into creation that moves us along. We become like what we Inperson participant 1: worship. And I know we've talked about that before, but so open your mind. Jeff Ward: And I know we've talked about that before, but so open your mind. let's get into a discussion about being free from sin, and let's just look and see what the Word of God says. There, that's a short transition into another transition before we get into Romans 6. There is a great many verses out of at least three different authors in the New Testament that would argue that we are, that sin is Inperson participant 1: let's get into a discussion about being free from sin and let's just look at see what the word of God says. There that's a short transition into another transition before we get into Romans six. There is a great many verses out of at least three different authors of the New Testament that would argue that we are that sin is Is to be rare for the follower of Jesus Christ. And we will we tend to explain those verses away. When we study through them, we'll just explain them away. Well, this is not really what that means. Jeff Ward: is to be rare for the follower of Jesus Christ. And we will we tend to explain those verses away. When we study through them, we'll just explain away. Well this is not really what that means. Inperson participant 1: And to some degree, that's probably right. It maybe it's really not what it means. But I'm gonna read or Jeff and I are gonna read one, two, three, four, five, six, seven verses in six different pat you know six different chunks that basically Jeff Ward: And and to some degree that's probably right. And maybe it's really not what it means. But I'm gonna read or Jeff and I are gonna read one, two, three, four, five, six, seven verses in six different pat yeah, six different chunks that basically Inperson participant 1: say that we're sins should be rare. Right. And or at least heading in that direction. And Jeff Ward: say that we're sins should be rare. Right. And or at least heading in that direction. And Inperson participant 1: and we're not going to explain them away. At some point you go, hey, there's that many. And a lot of others that aren't quite as in your face as these verses are. But at some point these things start stacking up and you go, the argument that you make against one verse starts to fall flat when it's just over and over and over again. So again Jeff Ward: Explain them away at some point you go, hey, there's that many, and a lot of others that aren't quite as in your face as these verses are. but at some point these things start stacking up and you go, the argument that you make against one verse starts to fall flat when it's just over and over and over again. Yeah. So again, not talking about sinless perfection. I am talking about a life that has a progression toward excellence in that area. Okay. So if you go to first John, yeah. Inperson participant 1: Not talking about sinless perfection. I am talking about a life that has a progression toward excellence in that area. Okay. So if you go to first John. Jeff Ward: And I'm gonna have you go to all of just because. Inperson participant 1: And I'm gonna have you go to all of just because I don't have that app called up. I should have, but first John two one. Read that. First John two one. Jeff Ward: First John 2 1. Read that. First John 2. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ, the righteous one. Okay, so the point of John's letter is that they may not sin. So he has a pretty high standard that he's expecting the people that he's writing to to to attend. Inperson participant 1: Okay, so the point of John's letter is that they may not sin. So he has a pretty high standard that he's expecting the people that he's writing to to to attain to. then go to and that same thing, verse chapter three, verse six. Jeff Ward: Then go to that same thing, verse chapter three, verse six. Three, six. Yeah. Everyone who resides in him does not sin. Everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him. Okay. That's a pretty abrupt in your face statement. Now we'll tone that down, and some many teachers will tone it down and say, Well, they're talking about over and over practicing. Inperson participant 1: sins has neither seen him nor known him. Okay. That's a pretty abrupt in your face statement. Now we'll tone that down and some many teachers will tone it down and say, well, they're talking about over and over practicing a sin. They're talking about a lifestyle sin. I'm not here to argue that. I think that's probably right. I don't again, I don't think John is talking sinless perfection. He's probably talking kind of what I'm talking about, the excellence and or a progression toward that. Jeff Ward: That's probably right. I don't again I don't think John is talking sinless perfection. He's probably talking kind of what I'm talking about, excellence and or a progression toward that. Inperson participant 1: but but that's pretty abrupt. Hey, you know, you don't sin if you belong to Jesus. That's that's what it says in English and the Greek. And it's just so startling is the reason we try to Jeff Ward: but but that's pretty abrupt. Hey th you know, you don't sin if you belong to Jesus. That's that's what it says in English and the Greek. And it's just so startling is the reason we try to Inperson participant 1: tone that down a little bit. Yeah, you just go, don't know about that one and keep going. Well, if you kept going and you skipped over verse six, then verse nine is just a few verses later. Read verse nine. Jeff Ward: I just read right over it and go, ugh. Keep going. Yeah. Well, if you kept going, you skipped over verse six, then verse nine is just a few verses later. Read verse nine. Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin because he has been fathered by God. Okay, then you got that right back at you. Then go to verse chapter five, verse eighteen. Inperson participant 1: Okay, then you got that right back at you. Then go to verse chapter five, verse eighteen. Jeff Ward: We know that everyone fathered by God does not sin, but God protects the one he has fathered. The evil one cannot touch him. Okay. That's again, we've read one, two, three, four verses in first John that seemed to say ze followers of Jesus Christ don't sin. all right. Hebrews ten and verses twenty-six and twenty-seven. So it's a different New Testament writer. Inperson participant 1: Okay. That's again, we've read one, two, three, four verses in first John that seem to say ge followers of Jesus Christ don't sin. all right. Hebrews ten when you and verses twenty six and twenty seven. So it's a different New Testament writer. Jeff Ward: For if we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins is left for us. But only a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume God's enemies. All right, so that's basically we keep on sinning. Inperson participant 1: All right, so that's basically if you keep on sinning, after you're born again, you know, it's not good news. let's just leave it at Jeff Ward: It's not good news. Yeah. let's just believe it. Inperson participant 1: that without opening a whole nother topic beyond what we're going for. And then go to First Peter chapter four, verse one. Jeff Ward: So since Christ suffered in the flesh, you also arm yourselves with the same attitude, because a one who has suffered in the flesh has finished with sin. Okay. So again, there's some nuances and there's some nuances to these words used, practicing versus you know, different different things there. First Peter just had another one. So there's a third author that would say, yeah, sin should not be a major part of a belief. Inperson participant 1: Suffered in the flesh has finished with sin. Okay. So again, there's some nuances and there's some nuances to these words used, practicing versus you know, different different things there. First Peter just had another one. So there's a third author that would say, yeah, sin should not be a major part of a believer's life. And when it when you do sin, it's something that's rectified very quickly through repentance. Okay, so anyway, we'll talk about the the freedom and let me talk w this is about freedom. All right. Sin is not anything but bondage. Sin appears to be cool and fun maybe, but it is bondage meant to kill, steal, and destroy. Period. Whether it's the relationships or the persons or other people or your attitude or your salvation or your experience. Jeff Ward: So anyway, we'll talk about the freedom and let me talk this is about freedom. All right. Sin is not anything but bondage. Yeah. Sin appears to be cool and fun, maybe, but it is bondage meant to kill, steal, and destroy. Yeah. Period. Whether it's the relationships or the persons or other people or your attitude or your salvation or your experience. Inperson participant 1: you're you're f it it's meant to kill, steal, and destroy. So anyway, so with that, let's just we're just gonna step chunks of verses at a time through six Revel I mean Romans six one. We got a few verses we'll look up, but we're mostly just going to step through this chapter. And I say that and we're gonna look up several verses after verse one. But read Romans six one if you don't mind there Jeff can I ask a quick question. Yes. So in other words it's not a Jeff Ward: it it it's meant to kill, steal, and destroy. Yeah. Anyway, so with that, let's just we're just gonna step chunks of verses at a time through six revelation I mean Romans six one. We got a few verses we'll look up, but we're mostly just gonna step through this chapter. But read Romans six one if you don't mind your joke. Can I ask a quick question? Yes. So in other words, it's not an unreasonable expectation to say That you shouldn't be sinning Inperson participant 1: You shouldn't be sinning. Jeff Ward: or I mean, it's not unreasonable to say, be holy as I am holy. Yeah. Or hey, you shouldn't be practicing sin. That's not unreasonable to expect that we should Inperson participant 1: say be holy as I am holy. Yeah. Or hey you shouldn't be practicing sin. That's not unreasonable to expect that we should Jeff Ward: be getting more and more sanctified, or that that's you know what I'm saying? Like sometimes you read over and just go, well, there's no way I could do that. Yeah. But God has given us at least a foundation by Inperson participant 1: sanctified or mhm. That that's you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like sometimes you read over and just go, Well, there's no way I could do that. Yeah. But God has given us at least the foundation. Jeff Ward: Well, we're probably gonna talk about it in Romans six. And this is kinda what I'm addressing. It's like, Well, I can't do that. I'm trying to address the idea that yes, you can do that. Right. Not by trying harder. Right. By the power of the Holy Spirit and his word as you pursue Jesus Christ. Yeah. And like we were talking about earlier and what we're talking about, I think, on this podcast, and one one thing I say pretty regularly and we talk about is is if you're pursuing Christ with all you got, sin can't keep up with you. Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Here's what I want wanna get and this is kind of what I'm addressing. It's like, well, I can't do that. I'm trying to address the idea that yes, you can do that. Not by trying harder, but by the power of the Holy Spirit and his word as you pursue Jesus Christ. And like we were talking about earlier and what we've talked about, I think, on this podcast, and one one thing I say pretty regularly and we talk about is is if you're pursuing Christ with all you got, sin can't keep up with you. Jeff Ward: Yeah. And it'll just dry up and wither away. Inperson participant 1: And it'll just dry up and wither away. Jeff Ward: Right. So I'm not talking about a sin focused life. I'm actually talking about a Jesus Christ focused life. But what the the life that we live is this sin focused life because we think we're still in religion. And religion is a constant self assessment to see if you measure up to whatever religious measuring stick you're using. Inperson participant 1: So I'm not talking about a sin focused life. I'm actually talking about a Jesus Christ focused life. But what the the life that we live is this sin focused life because we think we're still in religion. And religion is a constant self-assessment to see if you measure up to whatever religious measuring stick you're using. Jeff Ward: Yeah. That's not the new covenant. The new covenant is a constant focus on Jesus Christ, fully aware that He does measure up and He's given you everything to measure up. So it's a completely different focus. But the problem is when we call ourselves sinners, or when we say, Well, I I you know I sin all the time, I gotta Inperson participant 1: That's not the new covenant. The new covenant is a constant focus on Jesus Christ, fully aware that He does measure up and He's given you everything to measure up. So it's a complete completely different focus. But the problem is when we call ourselves sinners, or when we say, Well, I I'm, you know, I sin all the time and I got to Jeff Ward: confess every sin or I won't be forgiven, I gotta do this and sins this and sin that and sin this, that's a sin focused life. And yeah, you are gonna get stuck in sin by being sin focused. Even if your focus is trying to get Inperson participant 1: confess every sin or I won't be forgiven. I gotta do this and sins this and sin that and sin this. That's a sin focused life. And yeah, you are going to get stuck in sin by being sin focused. Even if your focus is trying to get Jeff Ward: out of sin it's still sin focused. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yep. And sin focused, whatever we focus on, whatever we worship, whatever we behold, to put it in second Corinthians three eighteen language, and whatever we behold we become like. Yeah. Okay. And anyway, Inperson participant 1: out of sin, it's still sin focused. Does that make sense? And sin focused, whatever we focus on, whatever we worship, whatever we behold, to put it in second Corinthians three eighteen language, whatever we behold, we become like. Okay. And anyway. Jeff Ward: that's I guess I Inperson participant 1: That's I guess I hope that answers your question. But yeah, that identifies further the the lie or the mindset that we're trying to get out of with this lesson. So and at the end we want to be a Christ focused follower of Christ. Right. And then sin just goes with goes withers away because it has no power over us. Well read in a minute, we're dead to it. If I'm dead to it and it's got no power on it, I don't even need to think about it. Jeff Ward: that answer your question. Yes. So yeah, that identifies further the the lie or the mindset that we're trying to get out of with this lesson. Right. So and at the end we want to be a Christ focused follower of Christ. Right. And then sin just goes w withers away. Yeah. Reading a minute. We're dead to it. Yeah. If I'm dead to it and it's got no power on it, I don't even need to think about it. Yeah. I don't want to give it the attention. Inperson participant 1: I don't want to give it the attention. Jeff Ward: Yep. I keep trying to breathe life into it the more I give it the attention. Stop it. Yep. Give Christ your attention and go. Yeah. What shall we say then? Are we to remain in sin so that grace may increase? Okay. Inperson participant 1: I keep trying to breathe life into it the more I give it the attention. Stop it. Give Christ your attention and go. All right. Verse one. What shall we say then? Are we to remain in sin so that grace may increase? Okay. I know we're I said we just choked around through this and we're stopping after one verse. But Jeff Ward: We're gonna go backwards. Inperson participant 1: Paul does a really good job and I'm sh I'm sure he appreciates me patting him on the back. But that Jeff Ward: s I'm sure he appreciates me patting him on the back. But that he his logic through Romans is just off the charts. And and just a quick side note, Romans four, five, six, seven, and eight are maybe the greatest words that have ever been put on paper, by any human being. And Inperson participant 1: He his logic through Romans is just off the charts. And and just a quick side note, Romans four, five, six, seven, and eight are maybe the greatest words that have ever been put on paper by any human being. And and and what he's spent, and we'll go look at a few of them. He has spent the last two and a half chapters, last part of three, chapter four and five, basically nailing down Jeff Ward: And and what he's spent, and we'll go look at a few of them. He has spent the last two and a half chapters, p last part of three, chapter four and five, basically nailing down how wonderful and awesome the gospel is. And so we'll read those, but as a transition now, he's gonna transition to chapter six and seven, where he asked these rhetorical questions and then answers. So let's go read go back read Romans four eight as an example. This one that Inperson participant 1: How wonderful and awesome the gospel is. And so we'll read those, but as a transition now, he's going to transition to chapter six and seven, where he asks these rhetorical questions and then answer them. So let's go read go back to read Romans four eight as an example. This one that I I teasingly say if you yell this out in the four-year of most some churches, you get dogpiled and beat up and thrown out, even though you're quoting scripture directly. But go ahead. Jeff Ward: I teasingly say if you yell this out in the foreyard of most some churches you get dogpiled and beat up and thrown out even if you're quoting scripture right go ahead. Blessed is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin. So there you go. Happy, that word blessed means happy. Happy is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin. He's quoting David saying, Hey, that's us. We should be overwhelmingly joyful, happily, because God does not count sin against us. And Inperson participant 1: So there you go. Happy. That word blessed means happy. Happy is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin. He's quoting David saying, Hey, that's us. We should be overwhelmingly joyful, happily, because God does not count sin against us. And some religions and some theologies within the Christian realms or Christian churches will bristle at that. But that's just a direct quote from scripture. Okay, go to Jeff Ward: Some religions and some theologies within the Christian realms, Christian churches will bristle at that. But that's just a direct quote from scripture. Okay, go to Romans chapter five, which these are the preceding verses to Romans six one when you ask this rhetorical question. So start in verse seventeen and go through verse twenty-one. Inperson participant 1: Romans chapter five, which these are the preceding verses to Romans six one when you ask this rhetorical question. So start in verse seventeen and go through verse twenty one. Jeff Ward: Okay. For if by the transgression of the one man death reigned through the one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one Jesus Christ? Consequently, just as a condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so too through one righteous act came righteousness leading to life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were cons constituted sinners, Inperson participant 1: Just as through the disobedience of the one man, many were cons constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many will be constituted righteous. Now the law came in, so that transgression may increase. But where sin increased, grace multiplied all the more. So that just as sin reigned in death, so also grace will reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Okay. So there's We are sinners because Adam sinned, Jeff Ward: So also through the obedience of one man many will be constituted righteous. Now the law came in, so the transgression may increase, but where sin increased, grace multiplied all the more, so that just as sin reigned in death, so also grace will reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Okay. So there's we are sinners because Adam sinned and Inperson participant 1: and now We are righteous because Jesus obeyed. That's the thing that we need to get a hold of Jeff Ward: Because Jesus obeyed. That's the thing that we need to get a hold of. Inperson participant 1: to go and understand why we used to be sinners and now we are righteous. Okay. And then he makes this statement. He says, and again, some people want to hold on the law, but here's one reason you don't want it. Okay. And then he goes, But where sin increased, grace multiplied all the more. Jeff Ward: understand why we used to be sinners and now we are righteous. Okay? And then he makes this statement. He says, and again, some people want to hold on the law, but here's one reason you don't want he says now the law came in so that sin or the transgressions may increase. Okay, and then he goes, but where sin increased, grace multiplied all the more. That's kind of the thing that he's answering here. What should we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? And he's saying, hey, well, if grace is a good thing, and if you sin, grace multiplies even more, then we should just sin because we get more and more grace. He's jumping into these logical arguments now that he's gonna have a rhetorical question, and then he's gonna get on to us for even asking the question that he asked. Yeah. Which is funny. But anyway, so that's what shall we say then? Inperson participant 1: That's kind of the thing that he's answering here. What should we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? And he's saying, hey, well, if grace is a good thing, and if you sin, grace multiplies even more, then we should just sin because we get more and more grace. He's jumping into these logical arguments now that he's gonna have a rhetorical question and then he's gonna get on to us for even asking the question that he asked, which is funny. But anyway, so that's what shall we say then? Jeff Ward: Are we to remain in sin so that grace may abound? The answer is obviously going to be no. We should not remain in sin, which is what I'm talking about here. Okay. So he answers his own question, which with another question and some statements. So read verses two through five, do you mind? Inperson participant 1: Are we to remain in sin so that grace may abound? And the answer is obviously going to be no. We should not remain in sin, which is what I'm talking about here. Okay. So answers his own question, which with another question and some statements. So read verses two through five, if you don't mind. Jeff Ward: Absolutely not. How can we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that as many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore, we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of God the Father, so we too may live a new life. Okay. He basically says not he says absolutely not. Inperson participant 1: We too may life. Okay. He basically says, not he says, absolutely not, right? But then he asked But then he says, ask an okay, how can we who died to sin still live in it? I put here, the answer implies that the question is a dumb question. I mean he answers it so strongly that he's like, wait a minute, you died to sin. How could you live in sin? And so it's not it it's a very strong Jeff Ward: But then he asked but then he says, ask an okay, how can we who died to sin still live in it? But here, the answer implies that the question is a dumb question. I mean he answers it so strongly that he's like, wait a minute, you died to sin. How could you live in sin? And so it's not it it's a very strong question or answer to his questions. Of course not, or absolutely not, because be quiet because you're dead to sin. So how can you continue to live in it? Inperson participant 1: question or answer to his questions. Of course not, or absolutely not, because be why? Because you're dead to sin. So how can you continue to live in it? So you're dead to sin. And then he goes on to explain some some Jeff Ward: So you're dead to sin. And then he goes on to explain some some crazy awesome things that are hard to understand, except we know from Hebrews 11 3 that we understand these by faith. Understand, and faith comes from our hearts. So this is not an intellectual thing because we would probably never get there intellectually. But it says, We have been immersed into Christ's death. We were buried with Christ. We were raised with Christ to live a new life. So Inperson participant 1: Crazy awesome things that are hard to understand, except we know from E Hebrews eleven three that we understand these by faith. Understand and faith comes from our hearts. So this is not an intellectual thing because we probably never get there intellectually, but it says, We have been immersed into Christ's death, we were buried with Christ, we're raised with Christ to live a new life. So So we we were with Christ when all these things happened to him, therefore they have happened to us and we are raised. Okay? And as a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5 17, this is as a new creation living a new life, a new resurrected life, we are now dead to sin. And just a quick side note: all of our Christian life should be a resurrected life. we talk about Jeff Ward: So we we were with Christ when all these things happened to him, therefore they have happened to us and we were raised. Okay? And and as a new creation, second Corinthians five seventeen, this is as a new creation living a new life, a new resurrected life, we are now dead to sin. And just a quick side note, all of our Christian life should be a resurrected life. we talk about Inperson participant 1: death a lot. That's okay, but death is Jeff Ward: Death a lot. That's okay. But death preceded in the resurrection, and now we're living out a resurrected life. And that's the way we're to live, looking forward, not looking back in that regard. All right, so he's gonna go on. Let me just I'll go back and read all these, but first of all, verse two, he said, We have died to sin. That's one of my emphasis items that that we'll come back to. Five, six, and seven. Read verses five, six, and seven. Inperson participant 1: preceded in the resurrection and now we're living out a resurrected life. And that's the way we're to live, looking forward, not looking back in that regard. All right. So he's going on. Let me just I'll go back and read all these, but first on verse two, he said, We have died to sin. That's one of my emphasis items that that we'll come back to. Five, six, and seven. Read verses five, six, and seven, please. Jeff Ward: For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united in the likeness of his resurrection. We know that our old man was crucified with him, so that the body of sin would no longer be do would no longer dominate us, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For someone who has died has been free from sin. A verse that I have memorized Inperson participant 1: So that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For someone who has died has been free from sin. Okay. A verse that I have memorized is Galatians two twenty. And I memorized that a long time ago, so I still Meditate on it. But it says, I've been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the one who loved me and gave himself for me. The question that arises from that was, Well, who or what was crucified? Because I'm I'm sitting here with you. I don't have hands in my I mean nail prints in my hands and feet, right? And then but verse six of chapter six answers that question. It says, The who was crucified was our old man. Jeff Ward: That arises from that was well, who or what was crucified? Because I'm sitting here with you. I don't have hands in my I mean nail prints in my hands and feet, right? And then, but verse 6 of chapter 6 answers that question. It says, the who was crucified was our old man. Our old man is dead. Okay. Our old man is dead. He was crucified with him. And what is the result? Inperson participant 1: Our old man is dead. Okay? Our old man is dead. He was crucified with him. And what is the result? The Jeff Ward: Result is this that's so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us. That's the result. And there's another, it keeps going. And so that we'd be no longer enslaved to sin. And then he says it again in verse 7 that we have been Inperson participant 1: result is this: that's so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us. That's the result. And there's another, it keeps going. And so that we'd be no longer enslaved to sin. And then he says it again in verse 7 that we have been. Jeff Ward: freed from sin. So in two verses, verses 6 and 7, he says we are no longer dominated by sin, we're no longer enslaved to sin, and we are freed from sin. Two verses, three different times that he says that. Inperson participant 1: Freed from sin. So in two verses, verses six and seven, he says we are no longer dominated by sin, we're no longer enslaved to sin, and we are freed from sin. Two verses, three different times that he says that. What's the point? You've been freed from sin. Quit acting like you're not, which he's even going to give you more specific here in a second. So let's go to keep going verse. Jeff Ward: What's the point? You've been freed from sin. Quit acting like you're not. Which he's even gonna be more specific here in a second. so let's go to keep going. Verse Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Just keep going. Verse eight through eleven this time. Okay. Can I say one thing? Yes, you may. When I was college, I led a Bible study. Like I don't know, six or seven of us and we were this was what I was teaching on. Somebody asked me there was an adult that led us. He's like, you know, just a couple of you teach on these and he had me teach on this and I remember teaching and I'm I read it for what it says and then you know, somebody's like, Well then why do I still sin? And I mean it was like a yeah, I don't know. You know what I mean? You read it and you're like Jeff Ward: Okay. Can I say one thing? Yes, you know. When I was in college, I led a Bible study of like, I don't know, six or seven of us, and we were this was what I was teaching on. Somebody asked me, there was an adult that led us, but he's like, you know, there's a couple of you teach on these and he had me teach on this, and I remember teaching it, and I'm I read it for what it says, and then you know, somebody's like, Well then why do I still sin? And I mean it was like a yeah, I don't know. You know what I mean? You read it and you're like, so it's It's verses that you just have to take and believe and act on. But I remember just thinking, I don't know, I guess I don't know. Maybe it's not true. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Right. yeah. So here's what you're doing. Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Yeah. Right. yeah. So here's what you're doing. Well little old me just said I don't know. Yeah, the the quest well, that's a great answer if that's the honest answer, right? We need to be willing to say that. Right. And Jeff Ward: Little old me just said, I don't know. The quest well, that's a great answer if that's the honest answer. Yeah. We need to be willing to say that. Right. And Inperson participant 1: our if we Jeff Ward: If we Inperson participant 1: are ha if our spirit is engaged with the Holy Spirit, with God's Word, and the mind of Christ, and we're engaging our mind and our intellect with the spirit and what's saying. Jeff Ward: spirit is engaged with the Holy Spirit, with God's Word, and the mind of Christ, and we're engaging our mind and our intellect with the Spirit and what's saying, what I tend to think the question that comes back is, What is this saying? And I I want to dig in and figure out what this is saying. Yeah. If my intellect is engaged with my flesh and my five senses, the question I ask is more along the ask, what does this mean? If I go with what does this mean, well it can mean one thing to you, it can mean one thing to me, it can mean all these different things then Inperson participant 1: What I tend to think the question that comes back is, what is this saying? And I I want to dig in and figure out what this is saying. If my intellect is engaged with my flesh and my five senses, the question I ask is more along lines, what does this mean? If I go with what does it mean, well, it can mean one thing to you, it can mean one thing to me, it can mean all these different things, then It's easy to take this and go, Well, that's obviously not what I see with my eyes. Therefore, this means something different. But what I like to do is take my eyes and my five senses, set off to the side, and go, what does this say? Jeff Ward: It's easy to take this and go, Well, that's obviously not what I see with my eyes. Therefore, this means something different. Exactly. What I like to do is take my eyes and my five senses, set them off to the side, and go, what does this say? Right. And now once I know what it says, then I can figure it out. Because we're gonna find the answer to your question here in just a second. In verse eleven, it tells us what the answer is. Now, people may not like the answer, but I'm not the one that provides. Inperson participant 1: And now, once I know what it says, then I can figure it out. Because we're going to find the answer to your question here in just a second. In verse 11, it tells us what the answer is. Now, people may not like the answer, but I'm not the one that provided it. The word of God is. But but I'm focused on, and many people, if some people, how I say this. Jeff Ward: But cut but I'm focused on and many people if some people how to say this. Inperson participant 1: If you've noticed anything about these podcasts is that's what I'm generally focused on, is what does this say, not what does it mean? 'Cause I wanna I wanna know what it says and then I want to accept that as by faith as true and then I wanna go live that out. Yes. My intellect can't go can't understand things that my faith and my heart can. So anyway, so let's read Jeff Ward: If you've noticed anything about these podcasts is that's what I'm generally focused on is what does this say? Not what does it mean. Yeah. 'Cause I wanna I wanna know what it says and then I want to accept that as by faith as true, and then I want to go live that out. Act on that. Yes. My intellect can't go can't understand things that my faith and the heart can't. So anyway, so And thinking that a God with all the know with you know, who knows everything, yeah, Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Jeff Ward: at an IQ. bigger than us. Yeah. It would make sense that maybe we go, I don't know. Right. Yeah it would, wouldn't it? Yeah. Right. Yeah, I mean I mean an a genius would run off and leave us and he's got a digit IQ. You know, how about somebody that's got infinitely long IQ? Yeah yeah. So and he doesn't or anywhere does he say Inperson participant 1: Yeah. It would make sense and maybe we go, I don't know. Right. Yeah, it would, wouldn't it? I mean an a genius would run off and leave us and he's got a three digit IQ. You know, how about somebody that's got an infinitely long IQ? Yeah, he's gonna run off and leave us. It's so so and he doesn't anywhere does he say you have to understand what I'm saying. He also s always says is hear the word of the Lord. Yeah. So Jeff Ward: You have to understand what I'm saying. He also s always says is hear the word of the Lord. Yeah. That's good. So good stuff. Yeah, so back to your college days, you said I don't know and you guys went on. The tendency, the next thing to do, or the thing even to not even say I don't know, is to go, I need to find out the meaning of this. Inperson participant 1: Yeah, so back to your college days, you said I don't know and you guys went on. The tendency, the next thing to do, or the thing even to not even say I don't know, is to go, I need to find out the meaning of this and I'm gonna maneuver and wicker this and come up with a meaning that matches what I see. So I see this and I'm gonna take God's word and make it transformed to match what I see. That's exactly opposite what we just spent. Jeff Ward: And I'm gonna maneuver and wicker this and come up with a meaning that matches what I see. So I see this and I'm gonna take God's word and make it transformed to match what I see. That's exactly opposite what we just spent Ephesians six just talking about, living from our flesh or five senses versus living from our spirit. What we want to do is what does it say? Okay, and then from and then what does it say to do? Okay, that's what I want to do and live out, and then what I see will begin to transform to what the truth is. Yeah. Inperson participant 1: Ephesians 6 just talking about living from our flesh or our five senses versus living from our spirit. What we want to do is what does it say? Okay, and then from and then what does it say to do? Okay, that's what I want to do and live out, and then what I see will begin to transform to what the truth is. Yeah. Jeff Ward: and not start the other way around. Right. Okay. Which is a great temptation. Especially on verses like these. Sure. Well we try to Inperson participant 1: And not start the other way around. Right. Okay. Which is a great temptation. especially on verses like these. Especially those verses we read start off. We try to read. Jeff Ward: wrap our brains and make it make sense. Yeah. if I can make it make sense by saying, well, we're it's still okay to sin. It's just kind of not, you know, yeah. They didn't really mean that somebody that follows Christ doesn't sin. They didn't really mean that. And and maybe they didn't. Maybe there's some nuances in there, but let's just see what it says. Yeah. Right. Inperson participant 1: Yeah. if I can make it make sense by saying, Well, we're it's still okay to sin, it's just kinda not you know they didn't really mean that somebody that follows Christ doesn't sin. They didn't really mean that. And and maybe they didn't, maybe there's some nuances in there, but let's just see what it says. Right. Jeff Ward: Okay. And it usually waters it down. Makes it powerless. Dumbs it down is what I like to call. Yeah. Water because Yeah. And then and then where are we left? We're left with Inperson participant 1: Okay. It usually waters it down. Yes, waters it down, dumbs it down is what I like to call yeah, water because Yeah. And then and then where are we left? We're left with Jeff Ward: listen well, there's nothing I need to change. Because I watered the word of God down till it matches what I'm already doing and already seeing. Yeah. And so now, good. Let's go to lunch. Yeah. I'll I'm done. Inperson participant 1: Let's well, there's something I need to change. Cause I watered the word of God down till it matches what I'm already doing and already seeing. And so now, good. Let's go to lunch. You know, I got I'm done. Instead of going, wow, this is super challenging. And yeah, I gotta spend a lot of time here and figure out what God's Word says, and then figure out why what I see in my life doesn't match what God's Word says, and now add the effort to make those two line up, not by bringing God's word down, but bringing my life up. All right. Jeff Ward: Instead of going, Wow, this is super challenging and yeah, I gotta spend a lot of time here and figure out what God's Word says and then figure out why what I see in my life doesn't match what God Word says and now add the effort to make those two line up. Not by bringing God's word down, but bringing my life up. Yeah. All right. Eight through eleven. You can't blame me for making this long. No, well, except I've been asking to read eight for eleven over the last ten minutes. You can read eight through eleven. Inperson participant 1: Eight through eleven. You can't blame me for this long. No, well, except I've been asking to read eight for eleven for the last ten minutes and you won't read eight through eleven. One more question. Now do we die? Jeff Ward: One more question. Just kidding. All right. Now if we die with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that since Christ has been raised from the dead, he is never going to die again. Death no longer has mastery over him. For the death he died, he died to sin once for all. But the life he lives, he lives to God. So you too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Okay. So these first few verses here he says basically Christ died to sin. We were in Christ. Inperson participant 1: Okay. So these first few verses here, he says basically Christ died to sin. We were in Christ. Therefore we died to sin. It doesn't say that specifically like that, but when you can we look at the verses before and the verses after in this section we're talking about, this is the point of Romans six is Christ died to sin. We were in Christ, so therefore we're died to sin, and we don't owe we don't owe anybody anything that we're dead to. Okay? let alone the power of sin. And then verse eleven, this is why. Jeff Ward: Therefore we died to sin. It doesn't say that specifically like that, but when you can we look at the verses before and the verses after in this section we're talking about, this is the point of Romans 6: is Christ died to sin. We were in Christ, so therefore we're died to sin, and we don't owe we don't owe anybody anything that we're dead to. Okay? let alone the power of sin. And then verse 11. This is why. Inperson participant 1: You still sin and while you're grouped there is like, well, I still, you know, trapped in all this stuff. So you two consider yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ. Why? Why? Because you haven't considered yourselves dead to sin and alive to God. Most of our teachings are focused on sin. And most of our teachings do exactly the opposite of this. And we'll say it more than once so we get it. Most of our teachings, we consider ourselves alive to sin and dead to God. When you go, I'm a sinner, I sin all the time, I can't help it. Jeff Ward: You still sin and while you're grouped there is like while I still, you know, trapped in all this stuff. So you two consider yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ. Why? Why? Because you haven't considered yourselves dead to sin and alive to God. Most of our teachings are focused on sin. And most of our teachings do exactly the opposite of this. I'm gonna say it more than once so we get it. Most of our teachings we consider ourselves alive to sin and dead to God. Yeah. When you go, I'm a sinner, I sin all the time, I can't help it. Inperson participant 1: I'm probably sinning right now and don't even realize it. When you say all that kind of stuff, you're you were doing the opposite of verse eleven and you were saying, I am considering myself alive to sin and dead to God. That's what you're saying. Jeff Ward: probably sin. And you're saying, I am considering myself alive to sin and dead to God. That's what you're saying. Inperson participant 1: And then you get the results that you're saying, and you're wondering, and then you seem perplexed that well, this the scripture must be wrong. When the whole time you're not applying the scripture. it sounds very humble. Jeff Ward: And then you get the results that you're saying and you're wondering, and then you seem perplexed that well this the scripture must be wrong. Right. When whole time you're not applying the scripture. Yeah. it sounds very humble to say, Well, I'm I'm a sinner, I sin all the time, I can't help it, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that's not that's really unbelief disguised as humility, and it's not humility, it's arrogance to not believe what God's word says. So God's word says you're dead to sin, and it says, So now I want you to consider yourselves dead to sin. Inperson participant 1: To say, well, I'm I'm a sinner, I sin all the time, I can't help it, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that's not that's really unbelief disguised as humility, and it's not humility, it's arrogance to not believe what God's word says. So God's word says you're dead to sin, and it says, So now I want you to consider yourselves dead to sin, Jeff Ward: But alive to God in Christ Jesus. I looked up the word consider. It means to reckon, which means to come to a bottom line, or in other words, or Inperson participant 1: but alive to God in Christ Jesus. I looked up the word consider, it means to reckon, which means to come to a bottom line, or in other, in other words, or Jeff Ward: another way is to reason or to think to a logical conclusion. Consider is such a soft word compared to the Greek word there. Or reckon. Some of our say reckon. Well, I reckon so. It's saying reason to a logical conclusion. Inperson participant 1: Another way is to reason or to think to a logical conclusion. Consider is such a soft word compared to the Greek word there, or reckon. Some of them are saying reckon. Well, I I reckon so. You know, no, it's saying reason to a logical conclusion that the fact is you are dead, and therefore live out what is the fact. You're dead to sin and you're alive to God. So live that way. The way I think about it, Jeff Ward: That the fact is you are dead, and therefore live out what is the fact. You're dead to sin and you are alive to God. So live that way. The way I think about it Inperson participant 1: Is Jeff Ward: is if you were going if tonight was date night and you and your spouse are gonna go out, and you had a hundred dollars in your checking account, or you had a thousand dollars in your checking account, you would Inperson participant 1: If you were going, if tonight was date night and you and your spouse are gonna go out, and you had a hundred dollars in your checking account, or you had a thousand dollars in your checking account, you would if you reckoned whatever's true to be true there, your date would look different if you had a different amount of money. And maybe that's a wrong idea. Let's say you were just living out your life and you have a hundred dollars in your account. Jeff Ward: You reckoned whatever's true to be true there, your date would look different if you had a different amount of money. And maybe that's the wrong idea. Let's say you were just living out your life and you have a hundred dollars in your account, versus you're just living out your life and you have a million dollars in your account. Your life's gonna look different based on those facts. But let's say you thought you had a hundred dollars in your checking account, yet you really had a million dollars in your checking account. Inperson participant 1: Versus you're just living out your life and you have a million dollars in your account. Your life's gonna look different based on those facts. But let's say you thought you had a hundred dollars in your checking account, yet you really had a million dollars in your checking account. How would you live? You would live like somebody with a hundred dollars in checking account because that's what you believe to be true. When actually you have a million dollars in your checking account. This is saying. Jeff Ward: How would you live? You would live like somebody with a hundred dollars checking account 'cause that's what you believe to be true. When you actually have a million dollars in your checking account. This is saying It's revealing. You have a hundred million, bro. You have you you got this huge chunk of change, go live like it. It's saying quit living like you're alive to sin and dead to God, because the fact is you're dead to sin and alive to God, so go live that out. That's what this word reckon or consider means. Inperson participant 1: Yeah, you have you you got this huge chunk of change, go live like it. It's saying quit living like you're alive to sin and dead to God because the fact is you're dead to sin and alive to God, so go live that out. That's what this word reckon or consider means. Jeff Ward: Nice. Inperson participant 1: And just to say it again, 'cause I said I was gonna say it again. When we s when we say we're just sinning and we can't help it, that's just who we are. I'm a sinner and I just sin all the time. Jeff Ward: And just to say it again, because I said I was going say it again, when we s when we say we're just sinning and we can't help it, that's just who we are. I'm a sinner. And I just sin all the time. And I'm probably sinner right now, I don't even know it. Blah blah blah blah blah. When we say that, we're doing the exha opposite of that. We are Inperson participant 1: And I'm probably sinner right now, I don't even know it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When we say that, we're doing the exha opposite of that. We are we are reasoning to a logical conclusion that I am alive to sin and I am dead to God, and it's going against God's word. It's unbelief and it's arrogance. So let's keep going. It'll get faster, I promise. Well, I don't know if we get faster, but anyway. Jeff Ward: We are reasoning to a logical conclusion that I am alive to sin and I am dead to God and it's going against God's word. It's unbelief and it's arrogance. So let's keep going. It'll get faster, I promise. Well, I don't know if we get faster. Inperson participant 1: keep reading, 12 through 14. Okay. Therefore, do not let sin reign in your Jeff Ward: Keep reading twelve through fourteen. Okay, therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires, and do not present your members to sin as instruments to be used for unrighteousness. But present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead and your members to God as instruments to be used for righteousness. For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace. Okay. Do not let sin rent reign in your mortal body. Do not present your members to sin. There's our two Inperson participant 1: Okay, do not let sin rent rain in your mortal body. Do not present your members to sin. There's our two do nots. To answer your buddy's question in college, that's part of the right there, because you're not doing these do nots, and you're not doing the do's. Do present yourselves to God and do present your members to God as instruments to be used for righteousness. Period. And and he's in verse 14, I've quoted a million times to myself and to others. Jeff Ward: Do nots. To answer your buddy's question in college. That's part of the right there, because you're not doing these do not. And you're not doing the do's. Do present yourselves to God and do present your members to God as instruments to be used for righteousness. Period. And and he's in verse 14, I've quoted a million times to myself and to others. For sin will have no mastery over you because you are not under law but under grace. The tendency as soon as sin, if you perceive that you had a problem with sin, the s the problem Inperson participant 1: For sin will have no mastery over you because you are not under law but under grace. The tendency as soon as sin, if you perceive that you had a problem with sin, the s the problem or the tendency is to try harder and to go deeper and to focus harder on it. That's called law. That leads to slavery to sin. We are not under sin, but under grace. Grace leads to freedom from sin. Jeff Ward: The tendency is to try harder and to go deeper and to focus harder on it. That's called law. That leads to slavery to sin. We are not under sin, but under grace. Grace leads to freedom from sin. So don't go back to the law. The temptation will be try harder, which means going back to religion. Don't do that. We are under grace, therefore, because of the one fact of being under grace, if we'll reckon it so or consider it so, is that we are free. Inperson participant 1: So don't go back to the law. The temptation will be try harder, which means going back to religion. Don't do that. We are under grace. Therefore, because of the one fact of being under grace, if we'll reckon it so or consider it so, is that we are free. Jeff Ward: five through sixteen. Inperson participant 1: five through sixteen. Jeff Ward: Fifteen through sixteen? Fifteen through sixteen. I'm with ya. Not what I say. All right. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Absolutely not. Do you not know that if you present yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin resulting in death or obedience resulting in righteousness? Because this introduces a slightly different section and he starts it off with some more rhetorical questions. Hey, so we just Inperson participant 1: Fifteen through sixteen. All right. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Absolutely not. Do you not know that if you present yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin resulting in death or obedience in righteousness. He goes this introduces a slightly different section and he starts it off with some more rhetorical questions. Hey, so we just Put our foot down pretty hard that we're not under law and we're under grace. So hey, does that mean we're just free to do whatever we want? Is it can we use grace as a license to sin? And he's like, No. That's another dumb question. Quit sa asking dumb questions. I'm like, Paul, you're the one asking them. And he's No, I'm asking them for you because these are your questions. He says, Don't, don't you know? And here's the thing don't you know that whoever you obey is your master? That's a spiritual law. And it's not just said here, it's said most clearly. It's said other places. Jeff Ward: So, hey, does that mean we're just free to do whatever we want? Is it can we use grace as a license to sin? And he's like, No. That's another dumb question. Quit asking dumb questions. I'm well, Paul, you're the one asking them. And he's No, I'm asking them for you because these are your questions. He says, Don't you know? And here's the thing: don't you know that whoever you obey is your master? That's a spiritual law. And it's not just said here, it's said most clearly. It's said other places. The spiritual law is this: whoever you obey. Inperson participant 1: The spiritual law is this whoever you obey is your master. If you're going to go obey sin, sin is your master. If you're going to obey righteousness, righteousness is your master. Okay? This is a quick side note. This is the spiritual law that required Jesus Christ to become a man to regain the dominion over planet Earth. Jeff Ward: Is your master. If you're going to go obey sin, sin is your master. If you're going to obey righteousness, righteousness is your master. Okay? This is a quick side note. This is the spiritual law that required Jesus Christ to become a man to regain the dominion over planet Earth. Inperson participant 1: Because God gave dominion to Adam, and when Adam sinned, he is now obeying. Jeff Ward: God gave dominion to Adam, and when Adam sinned, he is now obeying Satan. And when you obey Satan, Satan now is his master. The master owns everything the slave has, so now the master owns the dominion over the earth. That's why I say God didn't make Satan God of the air, and God, capital G didn't make Satan the God of this world. Adam did. Inperson participant 1: Satan, and when you obey Satan, Satan now is his master. The master owns everything the slave has, so now that master owns the dominion over earth. That's why I say, God didn't make Satan God of the air, and God, capital G, didn't make Satan the God of this world. Adam did. Jesus or God made Adam the little G God of this world and his descendants, and then Jeff Ward: Jesus or God made Adam the little G God of this world and his descendants. And then Adam gave that to Satan by obeying him, and this is a spiritual law. Paul's saying, don't go there. now let's go to seventeen through twenty. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves to sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were entrusted to, and having been freed from sin, you became enslaved to Inperson participant 1: Adam gave that to Satan by obeying him, and this is a spiritual law. Paul's saying, Don't go there. now let's go to seventeen through twenty. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves to sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were entrusted to, and having been freed from sin, you became enslaved to Jeff Ward: righteousness. Inperson participant 1: Set twenty. sorry. I'm speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, Jeff Ward: sorry. I'm speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free with regards to righteousness. Okay, so verse eighteen you've been free from sin and you're enslaved to righteousness. Inperson participant 1: Okay, so verse eighteen, you have been freed from sin and you're enslaved to righteousness. And then he talks kind of kind of explains more what he talked about earlier in verse twelve and thirteen about do not present your body members to sin and do present your members to God, because then he says, Now present your members as slaves to righteousness. Again, he's playing off of those Jeff Ward: And then he talks kind of kind of explains more what he talked about earlier in verse 12 and 13 about do not present your body members to sin and do present your members to God. Because then he says, now present your members as slaves to righteousness. Again, he's playing off of those things he talked earlier, and then playing off of verse 16 about whoever you obey your slave, and he's saying, Obey righteousness. That makes you a slave of righteousness. Excuse me. Okay, so keep going. 21 through 23. Inperson participant 1: Things they talked earlier and then playing off of verse sixteen about whoever you obey your slave, and he's saying, Obey righteousness, that makes you a slave of righteousness. Excuse me. Okay, so keep going. Twenty-one through twenty-three. So what benefit did you re then excuse me. So what benefit did you then reap from those things that you are now ashamed of? For the end of those things is death. But now, free from sin and enslaved to God, you have your benefit leading to sanctification. And the end Jeff Ward: So what benefit did you re then excuse me, so what benefit did you then reap from those things that you are now ashamed of? For the end of those things is death. But now, freed from sin and enslaved to God, you have your benefit leading to sanctification, and the end is eternal life. For the payoff of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Okay. He steps to again and closes this out. Inperson participant 1: Payoff of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal Christ Jesus our Lord. Okay. He steps through again, he closes this out. and he's just saying, What benefit did sin in the past give you? In other words, you you w reaped things that you're now ashamed of. And then if you keep going, in verse twenty three, he says, Sin leads to death. He goes, but you've been freed from sin. You're enslaved to God. Therefore, the gift of God is eternal life. it. I bolded on mine so I could find it. Let me just go back through chapter six and just read you a few of the things. Chapter verse two, you have died to sin. The believer has died to sin. Verses six: the body of sin no longer dominates us. It is Jeff Ward: Chapter six and just read you a few of the things. Chapter verse two you have died to sin. The believer has died to sin. Verses six the body of sin no longer dominates us. It is we are enslaved to sin. I mean, you are no longer enslaved to sin. Verses seven, we are freed from sin. verse 11, you're dead to sin and alive to God. Inperson participant 1: We are enslaved to sin. I mean you are no longer enslaved to sin. Verses seven, we are freed from sin. Verse eleven, you're dead to sin and alive to God. Verse fourteen, sin has no mastery over you. Verse eighteen, you have been freed from sin. You are enslaved to righteousness. Verse twenty two, you have been freed from slave. Jeff Ward: Verse 14, sin has no mastery over you. Verse 18, you have been free from sin. You are enslaved to righteousness. Verse 22, you have been free from slave from sin. You are enslaved to God. I don't know how to. Inperson participant 1: From sin you are enslaved to God. I don't know how to emphasize that any more than just reading what the word of God says and answering our question. You want to what does it say? This is what it says. You are freed from sin and you are free from the power of sin. Therefore go live that out. Go live like it. Go live like somebody with a million dollars in your account instead of a hundred dollars. Jeff Ward: emphasize that any more than just reading what the word of God says and answering our question. You wanna what does it say? This is what it says. We're freed from sin. Yeah. We're free from the power of sin. Yep. Therefore go live that out. Go live like it. Go live like somebody with a million dollars in your account instead of a hundred dollars. Yeah. So let me ask your friend's question and let me give an answer. But let me change the question and I therefore I'll change the answer just slightly. Inperson participant 1: So let me ask your friend's question and let me give an answer, but let me change the question and I therefore I'll change the answer just slightly. What about the sins I really don't want to commit? And I have a strong desire not to commit. And I see where they kill, steal, and destroy. And I see where sin is bondage. And I've rejected it over and over and over and over again. And I've said I'm sorry over and over and over again. And I've Jeff Ward: What about the sins that I really don't want to commit? And I have a strong desire not to commit. And I see where they kill, steal, and destroy. And I see where sin is bondage. And I've rejected it over and over and over and over again. I've said I'm sorry over and over and over again. And I've feel like I've repented over and over again. And I've done all these things over and over again, but every time it keeps coming back. This thing that I don't want to do, I keep doing. Inperson participant 1: feel like I've repented over and over again and I've done all these things over and over again, but every time it keeps coming back. This thing that I don't want to do, I keep doing. I would call that if if let me use that word of addiction. It may not be the clinical definition of an addiction, but you've got this thing that you don't want to do and you keep doing it. And one day you say, I'll never ever do it again, and the very next day you do it. And I got several examples here that t technically maybe aren't addictions, but Jeff Ward: I would call that if l if let me use that word of addiction. It may not be the clinical definition of an addiction, but you've got this thing that you don't want to do and you keep doing it. And one day you say, I'll never ever do it again, and the very next day you do it. And I got several examples here that t technically maybe aren't addictions, but from our traditional standpoint, but they are something they are addictions. Worry. Inperson participant 1: from our traditional standpoint, but they are something they are addictions. Worry. What if you just can't quit worrying? And you justify it by all different kinds of things. Well it just feels like I'm loving the person if I'm worrying about No, you're worrying and that's a sin and you can't stop it. What about fear? There is a spirit of worry. There's a spirit of fear. What about gossip? Gossip is said to be satanic and and gossip is, I see a An addiction. What about lying? You can't tell the truth. Many people who are stuck in lying as an addiction don't even know they're lying. And they forg they lose the ability to to see the truth. What about other things that maybe would fit in our classical definition of of addictions? Tobacco, nicotine, alcohol, pornography, drugs, all these things. And you and you just go, I'm a believer. Jeff Ward: What about other things that maybe would fit in our classical definition of of addictions, tobacco, nicotine, alcohol, pornography, drugs, all these things. And you and you just go, I'm a believer. Inperson participant 1: I want to follow Jesus the best I can, and I can't kick these. I'm going to tell you how to kick them here in just a second. I put here, these are demonic strongholds. These are to use the words of Ephesians 4 27, which we just stepped through, topos is that word of Jeff Ward: I want to follow Jesus the best I can and I can't kick these. I won't tell you how to kick them here in just a second. I put it here. These are demonic strongholds. These are to use the words of Ephesians four twenty seven, which we just stepped through, topos is that word of Inperson participant 1: don't give the devil any topos. Don't give him any ground. It comes from topolog topographical maps, is that word topos. Comes from it's this space, it's a room, it's a Jeff Ward: Don't give the devil any topos. Don't give him any ground. It comes from topolog topographical maps is that word topos. Comes from it's this space, it's a room, it's a it's geography, it's territory, it's land. Don't give any land or any space to the devil. Inperson participant 1: It's geography, it's territory, it's land. Don't give any land or any space to the devil. That's what demonic strongholds are. There's these lies and these these things that I that are in me that I can't get rid of. Anytime you have a repetitive something like that and it goes against what you do, and it's just repeating. And it may be a sin, it could be, but it could be financial loss, a re repetition of financial loss, a repetition of failure. Any kind of rep r repetitive thing, take a look and ask the Holy Spirit if there's a if there's an evil spirit involved here somewhere. Okay, so what you've done by committing the sins I just talked about, or the sins that Ephesians 4 plus or minus a few verses of ch of verse 27 talks about, you have opened your Jeff Ward: thing, take a look and ask the Holy Spirit if there's a if there's an evil spirit involved here somewhere. Okay, so what you've done by committing the sins I just talked about, or the sins that Ephesians 4 plus or minus a few verses of verse 27 talks about, you have opened your Inperson participant 1: room, your topos, your Two, you've given an opportunity, but it's a real estate. You've given real estate to the enemy and you have to evict him. Well, he's there because he paid the rent or he has a legal right to be there because you let him in. So you have to cancel that through repentance, command him to leave, and ask the Holy Spirit to fill it. That's a three step process. And if you'll do this, I I guarantee you'll experience great freedom that you've never done, that you never experienced. I'm talking about addictions Jeff Ward: You've given an opportunity, but it's a real estate. You've given real estate to the enemy and you have to evict him. Well, he's there because he paid the rent, or he has a legal right to be there because you let him in. So you have to cancel that through repentance, command him to leave, and ask the Holy Spirit to fill it. That's a three-step process. And if you'll do this, I I guarantee you'll experience great freedom that you've never done, that you never experienced. I'm talking about addictions. Inperson participant 1: going away. Jeff Ward: Going away right then. You may even as you step through this the first time or two, you may actually feel something leave. I've done this and felt something leave me before. So the first thing is first step, repent. It literally means to change your mind. It means to do it 180. So change from turn from your sin to God. You can even say out loud, I choose to follow Jesus Christ and I choose to step away from Inperson participant 1: Right then. You may even as you step through this the first time or two, you may actually feel something leave. I've done this and felt something leave me before. So the first thing is first step, repent. It literally means to change your mind. It means to do a 180. So change from turn from your sin to God. You can even say out loud, I choose to follow Jesus Christ and I choose to step away from. pornography, to step away from worry, to step away from gossip or any of these other things we've we've mentioned. And it's a changing Change your mind in this way too. You've been struggling for this against this sin for a long time. You've probably got this thing built up into something powerful. You've probably got this thing built up in something. Well, I'll never escape that. I'm just somebody who worries. I'm just somebody who who lies, who has trouble telling the truth. I'm just somebody that's addicted to some substance. Jeff Ward: Change your mind in this way too. You've been struggling for this against this sin for a long time. You've probably got this thing built up into something powerful. You've probably got this thing built up in something. Well, I'll never escape that. I'm just somebody who worries. I'm just somebody who who lies, who has trouble telling the truth. I'm just somebody that's addicted to some substance. Inperson participant 1: you can hear Satan whisper that. Yeah, you can't you're just a warrior. Yeah. That's who you are. Yeah. You can't change who you are. So part of this repentance or part of this change in your mind is going, no, this thing's tiny. Compared to the blood of Jesus, this thing is about an inch tall. And I can squish it like a bug. Luke 10 19 says that. Right? Everything is under our feet. We can tread on, walk on, serpents and scorpions. Jeff Ward: You can hear Satan whisper that. Yeah. Dude, you're just a warrior. Yeah. It's not that's who you are. Yeah, it's who you are. Yeah. You can't change who you are. Yeah. So part of this repentance or part of this change in your mind is going, no, this thing's tiny. Compared to the blood of Jesus, this thing is about an inch tall. And I can squish it like a bug. Luke ten nineteen says that. Right? Everything is under our feet. Yep. We can tread on, walk on, serpents and scorpions. Inperson participant 1: So we just have to understand, change your mind is by the power of God and by the blood of Jesus that was shed for you. This is an easy, easily defeatable sin. That's another part of changing your mind. Quit making this thing twenty feet tall when it's not. It's only an inch tall compared to the blood of Jesus. So first of all, repent, turn from your sin to God. Jeff Ward: So we just have to understand, change your mind is by the power of God and by the blood of Jesus that was shed for you. This is an easy, easily defeatable sin. That's another part of changing your mind. Quit making this thing twenty feet tall when it's not. It's only an inch tall compared to the blood of Jesus. So first of all, repent, turn from your sin to God. Inperson participant 1: That's a simple expression. And then cast out, or the biblical word literally means to expel. And this might sound kind of funny, but Jeff Ward: That's a simple expression. And then cast out, or the biblical word literally means to expel. And this might sound kind of funny, but just in the name of Jesus, I command the spirit of fear to leave and never come back. And or spirit of whatever. I put here, let me just read what I wrote. Spirit of fill in the blank. I command you to leave. I cast you out. I cast you to the feet of Jesus for judgment. By the blood of Jesus, you have no right to stay. Go. Inperson participant 1: Just in the name of Jesus, I command the spirit of fear to leave and never come back. And or spirit of whatever. I put here, let me just read what I wrote. Spirit of fill in the blank. I command you to leave. I cast you out. I cast you to the feet of Jesus for judgment. By the blood of Jesus, you have no right to stay. Go. And say it like you would to something threatening your family. Go. Be firm about it. Jeff Ward: And say it like you would to something threatening your family. Go. Be be firm about it. And then the next thing is, and this is based on what Jesus said, he said, if you cast a demon out of somebody Inperson participant 1: And then the next thing is, and this is based on what Jesus said, he said, if you cast a demon out of somebody, then if they're what'll happen is that that demon will looking for a place to go and he comes back to his old home and he sees, hey, there's it's all cleaned up, it's swept, it's nice, and now he comes in with seven demons more evil than himself, and the state is now of that man is worse than it was before. So empty space needs to be filled. Jeff Ward: Then if they're what'll happen is that that demon looking for a place to go and he comes back to his old home and he sees, hey, there's it's all cleaned up, it's swept, it's nice, and now he comes in with seven demons more evil than himself, and the state is now of that man is worse than it was before. So empty space needs to be filled. So that's step three. We just ask the Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, come and fill this vacated space. I'm tired. Inperson participant 1: So at step three, we just ask the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit, come and fill this vacated space. I'm tired of following this instead of you. And I now surrender X or this space that spirit of fear just left, for example. Come in and fill it and be filled, you know, and and fill these areas. And that will that will fill the open space that a demon might come back into to. Jeff Ward: following this instead of you and I now surrender X for this space that spirit of fear just left for example come in and fill it and be filled you know and and fill these areas and that will that will fill the open space that a demon might come back into to demonize or influence you. And then I put Inperson participant 1: demonize or influence you. And then I put maybe this is step four, maybe this is not step four, but then you have to stand on God's word. Take every thought captive. Do what 2 Corinthians 10, three through five, three through five says. Do what we just talked about starting in Ephesians chapter, mean, chapter six, verse 10. Jeff Ward: Maybe this is step four, maybe this is not step four. But then you have to stand on God's word. Take every thought captive. Do what 2 Corinthians 10, 3 through 5, 3 through 5 says. Do what we just talked about starting in Ephesians chapter, I mean chapter 6, verse 10. Inperson participant 1: Stand on God's word. So now you have to take every thought to the obedience of Christ. So when something comes in that's not due to the obedience of Christ, boom. Jeff Ward: Stand on God's word. So now you have to take every thought to the obedience of Christ. So when something comes in that's not due to the obedience of Christ, boom. When a when a temptation to fear comes in, no. And you don't you don't have to toy with it. Well, here's why that's wrong. This is wrong because of that. Just you're in charge and you are covered in the blood of Jesus and you stand on his word and you stand on his authority, just a simple no. And that's it. And that thought will go away. Okay? Inperson participant 1: When a when a temptation to fear comes in, no. And you don't you don't have to toy with it. Well, here's why that's wrong. This is wrong because of that. Just you're in charge and you are covered in the blood of Jesus and you stand on his word and you stand on his authority, just a simple no, and that's it. And that thought will go away. Okay. This is this is a method. this is the way to freedom. Take authority. Jeff Ward: This is this is a method. this is the way to freedom. Take authority, yeah, walk in the blood of Jesus Christ, and this is not something this is something where you've been what the Bible would call the Bible never used the word possession, but it means it uses the word demonized. So you're demonized meaning you're influenced by, you're harassed by, you're tormented by Inperson participant 1: Walk in the blood of Jesus Christ. And this is not something this is something where you have been what the Bible would call the Bible never uses the word possession, but it means it uses the word demonized. So you're demonized meaning you're influenced by, you are harassed by, you're tormented by a demonic entity of some sort, and you have authority over it. They are your pavement, as we've talked about. So get rid of it. So anyway. Jeff Ward: So get rid of it. So anyway, I'll let you throw in your thoughts here in a minute. But this this lesson just came from the idea or or the ideas I hear the way Christians speak about sin. And it's just not the way the Bible says it. And there is true and lasting freedom right here, right now in this life. Yeah. What else did you have or questions? Inperson participant 1: I'll let you throw in your thoughts here in a minute, but th this this lesson just came from the idea or or the ideas I hear the way Christians speak about sin, and it's just not the way the Bible says it, and there is true and lasting freedom right here, right now in this life. What else did you have or questions or comments or things you want say? Well, two things I was thinking of, like you said, a Christian cannot Jeff Ward: Well, two things I was thinking of, like you said, a Christian cannot be possessed by the devil. But we can open up and give him some room to operate or influence us. Yeah. Inperson participant 1: Yeah. But we can open up and give him some room to operate or influence us. Yeah. Jeff Ward: and then when we realize that through the Holy Spirit or reading the word and Inperson participant 1: Spirit or reading the word. Mm-hmm. Jeff Ward: you go, dude, there's a stronghold here or something. Yeah. And we can say, Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Yeah. we can say Jeff Ward: like just like you said, those steps of repent, go away. Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Jeff Ward: And then Stand on God's word, be filled with the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Those things we can do. Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Jeff Ward: anything before I say one more? Let me say one more thing. Go for it. If this sits wrong with you, first of all, if the ability to attain excellence in the area of sin sits wrong with you, just I think you need to read Romans six for yourself and just count Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Let me say one more thing. Go for it. If this sits wrong with you, first of all, if the ability to attain excellence in the area of sin sits wrong with you, just I think you need to read Romans six for yourself and just count the number of times you were free from sin and then Jeff Ward: Yeah. Inperson participant 1: do what verse eleven says. You know, come to the logical conclusion that this is true and this is the way I'm gonna live. Jeff Ward: Can't consider wrecking yourself. This is true, this is the way I'm gonna live. Yeah. And if you have something that you can't kick, another thing that might have sat along with you is me telling you you need to expel a demon out of right out of a believer. So let me let me reference two things. First reference is go find it. Go find where anywhere in the Bible where it says Inperson participant 1: And if you have something that you can't kick, another thing that might have sat wrong with you is me telling you you need to expel a demon out of out of a believer. So let me let me reference two things. First reference is go find it. Go find where anywhere in the Bible where it says a demon or a a believer cannot be demonized by a demon. Jeff Ward: Demon or a believer cannot be demonized by a demon. Can be influenced, harassed, whatever word you want to put in there. The Bible says demonized, it does not say possessed. Possessed implies ownership. You have been bought with the blood of Jesus and you are owned by Jesus. Right. But but never does it talk about ownership, the Bible, in regards to demon. It used the word demonization. You can look that up. Inperson participant 1: cannot be influenced, harassed, whatever word you want to put in there. The Bible says demonized. It does not say possessed. Possessed implies ownership. You have been bought with the blood of Jesus and you are owned by Jesus. But but never does it talk about ownership, the Bible, in regards to demon. It uses the word demonization. You can look that up in the Greek and figure out what that is. So first of all, I'll just tell you if you want to go look, I would I would I it would be worthwhile exercise to go, you can't find it. It's not in there anywhere. that it says a believer cannot be demonized. Okay. the other thing is go read Ephesians four twenty seven and some of our versions have dumbed it down, I think dumbing and down, some of our translations to opportunity. Do not give the devil opportunity. But it says literally do not give the d give the d devil real estate or space or a room. Jeff Ward: Go read Ephesians 4 27 and some of our versions have dumbed it down, I think dumbing it down, some of our translations to opportunity. Do not give the devil opportunity. Yes. But it says literally, do not give the d give the d devil real estate or space or a room. Inperson participant 1: You can go look that word up in your inner you find an illiterator Bible online, go to that verse and look at the Greek and just look at the s definition of that Greek word. seventy times it's place. Yeah, seventy times. So yeah, it's never actually translated opportunity. Yeah. Well no three times. Yeah. So you tell me you're not going Jeff Ward: Seventy times it's translated place. Yeah. Seventy or pla seventy six places. So yeah, it's never actually translated opportunity. Yeah. Well, no, three times. Yeah. Yeah. So you tell me. Yeah. You're not going Inperson participant 1: you if you go, Well, he the the demon can't harass me or can't Jeff Ward: Can't harass me or can't I can't give him space or a place, well then you got Inperson participant 1: I can't give him space or a place. Well, then you gotta have to completely rework just a simple, straightforward one sentence verse that says Ephesians 4 27. It says, Do not give the devil opportunity is what it really says. But really what it says is don't give, as it's translated, what, seventy something times, do not give him a place. And maybe, maybe we need to Jeff Ward: A simple, straightforward, one-sentence verse. It says Ephesians 4 27. It says do not give the devil opportunity is what it usually says. But really what it says is don't give as it's translated, what seventy-something times, do not give him a place. Yeah. And maybe maybe we need to go from three times opportunity only two times its opportunity and put that in there. I don't know where all three were, but yeah, so that's you're Inperson participant 1: go from three times opportunity only two times its opportunity and put that in there. I don't know where all three were, but anyway, so that's you're when this sits wrong with you, if something anybody ever says sits wrong with you, well then go to the Word of God and find out. We're we all have we we all have the ability to to be wrong. Or maybe one verse is is says this, another verse says that. There's tension between ideas. There's tension between Jeff Ward: When this sits wrong with you, if something anybody ever says sits wrong with you, well then go to your word of God and find out. Sure. We're we all have we we all have the ability to to be wrong. Or maybe one verse is right says this, another verse says that. There's tension between ideas, there's tension between in the in God's word. As we mentioned several months ago, there's tension between how you interpret certain things because they seem to say opposite. Well Inperson participant 1: in the in God's word, as we mentioned several months ago, there's tension between how you interpret certain things because they seem to say opposite. Well, they're both true. And and so anyway, the challenge should always be go. And then I'll say one more thing. Jeff Ward: Right. And and so anyway, the challenge should always be go. And then I'll say one more thing. Inperson participant 1: I I've I as a commander in the Air Force sometimes you have to deal with Jeff Ward: I be I as a commander, in the air force sometimes you have to deal with Inperson participant 1: airmen that have have issues, okay? I really think what I just stepped you through, because I've seen it happen other people's lives, I've seen it happen my life, will free you from sin. And it will free you from addictions. But Jeff Ward: think what I just stepped you through because I've seen it happen in other people's lives, I've seen it happen my life, will free you from sin. Yeah. And it will free you from addictions. But Inperson participant 1: there is a physical aspect aspect of some addictions. alcohol is the only one that I know of, there may be more, that once you're heavily in, Jeff Ward: There is a physical aspect aspect of some addictions. alcohol is the only one that I know of, there may be more. That once you're heavily in addicted to alcohol, there's an emotional addiction, a spiritual addiction that this process will get rid of. The physical addiction of alcohol, you cannot and should not go cold turkey with. Inperson participant 1: addicted to alcohol. There's an emotional addiction, a spiritual addiction that this process will get rid of. The physical addiction of alcohol, you cannot and should not go cold turkey with. to go cold if you are physically addicted to alcohol, to go cold turkey and have no more alcohol is lethal. So you need to get help. You need to go to inpatient where they'll give you a s a drug that's not Jeff Ward: go co if you are physically addicted to alcohol to go cold turkey and have no more alcohol is lethal. So you need to get help, you need to go to inpatient where they'll give you a s a drug that's not addictive, I don't know what it is, but I've as a commander I've had to send people to these places. Yeah. And they get off of it by taking this they give a drug that replaces and then they solely wean them off that drug that replaces alcohol. Inperson participant 1: addictive. I don't know what it is, but I've as a commander I've had to send people to these places and they get off of it by taking this they give a drug that replaces and then they solely wean them off that drug that replaces alcohol. I I am so confident of this that if you're an alcoholic, you could be free from the spiritual and emotional addiction to alcohol and may not want another drink. I'm just saying that be careful. If you do that and you start seeing symptoms of being sick, because this is this will Jeff Ward: I I am so confident of this that if you're an alcoholic you could be free from the spiritual and emotional addiction to alcohol and may not want another drink. I'm just saying that be careful. If you do that and you start seeing symptoms of being sick, because this is this will this is that free. Yeah. You may need to go get medical help to get through the actual withdrawal of the withdrawals, the physical withdrawal of alcohol. Yeah. The other the other Inperson participant 1: This is that freeing. You may need to go get medical help to get through the actual medical, the withdrawals, the physical withdrawal of alcohol. The other the other that's the only drug that I know of that has that effect. But anyway, that's just that's really a testimony of how powerful this three step process can be. Yeah. If you if you do it and and anyway. Okay. Well you were gonna close up something. Jeff Ward: That's the only drug that I know of that has that effect. But anyway, that's just that's really a testimony of how powerful this three step process can be. Yeah. If you if you do it and and anyway. Okay. You were gonna close up some. Inperson participant 1: You're close. Maybe not close, maybe open a door, but it's that you know, we I never hear generally a pastor say Jeff Ward: Maybe not close, maybe open a door, but it's that you know, we I never hear generally a pastor say Good morning saints. Or yeah, we are saints, but often say, I'm a sinner. Yeah. And part of me says, Okay, I mean we sin and one who sins is a sinner, but to align ourselves with what the word calls us, millions of times, not millions, that we're saints. Yeah. And we're we're not, yeah, we're holy ones. We're Inperson participant 1: Morning saints. Or yeah, we are saints. But often say I'm a sinner. Yeah. And part of me says, okay, I mean we sin and one who sins is a sinner, but to align ourselves with what the word calls us millions of times that we're saints. Yeah. Holy ones. We're not. Yeah, we're holy ones. We're Jeff Ward: not What we do we're who we we we are not defined by what we do but by who we are. Right. Is that the right way to say it? I mean that's what Romans five there says is that no through through op through Adam you were a sinner. Through Jesus Christ, now you are a holy one. Yes, and I think And you're declared righteous. Yes. Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Yes, and I think and you're declared righteous. Yes. And I would add to that what I th what Romans six eleven is saying is that now we need to receive that. Yes. We need to believe that, receive it. Jeff Ward: Receive that. Yes. We need to believe that, receive it, and receive that identity, and then the identity works itself out into the rest of our life. So we are not what we do, we do who we are. Yeah. Maybe in more particular is we do who we think we are. Yeah. We do who we received we are. But we are not what we do. Yeah. See the devil wants to if you lie, the devil wants to call you a liar. Inperson participant 1: and receive that identity and then the identity works itself out into the rest of our life. So we are not what we do, we do who we are. Maybe more particular is we do who we think we are. We do who we've received we are. But we are not what we do. See the devil wants to if you lie, the devil wants to call you a liar. The Holy Spirit will deal with your lying. That's a vast difference. The Holy Spirit will always reaffirm that you are righteous and holy and faultless and blameless, and you are a righteous person that sometimes lies. So let's talk about lying. The devil will come at you and c call you a liar. You're a liar. And he wants to establish your identity because he knows if he can deceive you into thinking you're a liar, that you're going to live a life of lying. Jeff Ward: The Holy Spirit will deal deal with your lying. Yeah. It's a vast difference. Yeah. The Holy Spirit will always reaffirm that you're righteous and holy and faultless and blameless. And you are a righteous person that sometimes lies. So let's talk about lying. The devil will come at you and c call you a liar. You're a liar. And he wants to establish your identity because he knows if he can deceive you into thinking you're a liar, that you're gonna live a life of lying. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's kind of what you're saying, I think. So the human common sense is to put a label on somebody by what they do, and it's in our culture everywhere. Yeah. It right. Your sexual identity is is is shaped by your identity is is shaped by your desires and your actions. sexual identity is one of But that goes everywhere. and everything. But but the Bible and and Inperson participant 1: Does that make sense? And that's kind of what you're saying, I think. So the human common sense is to put a label on somebody by what they do, and it's in our culture everywhere. If it right, your sexual identity is is is shaped by your identity is is shaped by your desires and your actions as just sexual identity is one of them. But that goes everywhere. and everything. But but the Bible and and Jeff Ward: the way that Inperson participant 1: The way that we are truly designed is that we work out who we think we are or who have we we have received that we are. And so that's the problem with us being sinners because of Adam, and then and then when we're born again, we're born as a new creation, alive Jeff Ward: designed is that we work out who we think we are or who have we we have received that we are. Yeah. And so that's the problem with us being sinners because of Adam and then and then when we're born again, we're born as a new creation, alive. Inperson participant 1: to God, but dead to sin, and we are righteous because of the obedience of Jesus. If we don't receive that and we keep Jeff Ward: Sin and we are righteous because of the obedience of Jesus. If we don't receive that and we keep identifying ourselves as a sinner, then we will be forever trapped in sin. Yeah. And if we identify ourselves with the truth, which is righteousness, then what we'll do is what the what the Bible Inperson participant 1: identifying ourselves as a sinner, then we will be forever trapped in sin. And if we identify ourselves with the truth, which is righteousness, then what we'll do is what the what the Bible would say, we'll display the fruit of righteousness. So we are truly fully righteous right here, now not someday, but right now Jeff Ward: say will display the fruit of righteousness. Right. So we are truly fully righteous right here now. Yeah. Not someday, but right now. Inperson participant 1: And now what we're talking about is by living that out and by reckoning it so or considering it so using Romans six eleven terminology, we then will produce the fruit of righteousness. Yeah, that's Jeff Ward: And now what we're talking about is by living that out and by reckoning it so or considering it so using Romans six eleven terminology, we then will produce the fruit of righteousness. Yeah I often think if a if the pastor of a church would say every morning, every Sunday morning, Good morning Saints. Good morning holy ones. Yeah. Inperson participant 1: Sunday morning. Good morning, Saints. Good morning, Oliver. Jeff Ward: People would probably be like, What why does he keep saying that? Who's he talking to? Yeah. That guy rather than Inperson participant 1: Yeah, who's he talking to? Yeah. That guy left. Jeff Ward: you know, we're all sinners. Yeah. Everybody goes, Yep, yep, yep. They all agree to it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, I was in a new class with a new group of people and a guy stood up. It was my first time Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Everybody goes, Yep, yep. Yep, they all agree to it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, I was in a new class with a new group of people, and a guy stood up. It was my first time attending there. And he said, he's and this was the the guy that was not the guy that runs this session, but he's the guy that had been selected to give a little devotional. And he started off with you're a center. No, he goes, I'm a center. Jeff Ward: And he said, he's and this was the the guy that was not the guy that runs this session, but he's the guy that had been selected to give a little devotional. And he started off with, You're a sinner. No, he goes, I'm a sinner. Inperson participant 1: And he goes, Now don't don't chuckle because you're a sinner too. And that's kind of the way the devotional star. Well, it's my first time ever in this little setting. Yeah. And I bit my tongue through the whole thing, Jeff Ward: He goes, Now don't don't chuckle because you're a sinner too. And that's kind of the way the devotional star was my first time ever in this setting. Yeah. And I bit my tongue through the whole thing. Inperson participant 1: but I probably was wrong in doing it. Cause I want to Jeff Ward: Well Inperson participant 1: go, not me. That's not what the God that's not what God's word says about me. Therefore that is not true of me. And then, you know, and and we're so used to this is that what I'm talking about, what we've been Jeff Ward: That's not what the God Yeah. That's not what God's word says about me, therefore that is not true of me. Right. Right. And then you know, and and we're so used to this is that what I'm talking about Inperson participant 1: talking about. Jeff Ward: that we try to l we we are so used to living from our flesh, living from our five senses and letting those five senses feed into our brain and going and letting our Inperson participant 1: That we try to l we we're so used to living from our flesh, living from our five senses, and letting those five senses feed into our brain and going and letting our our Jeff Ward: intellect or our soul go okay based on the five senses this is truth that's what a non-believer does whose spirit is dead Inperson participant 1: intellect or our soul go, okay, based on the five senses, this is truth. That's what a non believer does whose spirit is dead. Jeff Ward: okay and it is not truth it is not reality so what we have to retrain through the renewing of our mind and the discipline of our body is now we have to be focused on the spirit like John like Colossians 3 2 and 3 says be fit focused on the things above like Philippians 4 8 says to think on these excellent things then then what we do is we we Inperson participant 1: Okay, and it is not truth. It is not reality. So what we have to retrain through the renewing of our mind and the discipline of our body is now we have to be focused on the spirit, like John, like Colossians 3, 2 and 3 says, be th focused on the things above, like Philippians 4 8 says, to think on these excellent things, then then what we do is we we Jeff Ward: Look to our spirit, who is one with Christ, and the Word of God for truth. And if our Inperson participant 1: look to our spirit, who is one with Christ and the Word of God for truth. And if our Jeff Ward: if our five senses say this is true and the Word of God says this is true, the renewed mind goes, I'm going with the Word God. Yeah. So your resumes may say you're a sinner, but if you're a follower of Jesus Christ, the Word of God says that you are righteous. Inperson participant 1: If our five senses say this is true and the word of God says this is true, the renewed mind goes, I'm going to the word of God. So your resumes may say you're a sinner, but if you're a follower of Jesus Christ, the Word of God says that you are righteous. So here's the thing, Christian. Which one are you going to stand on? Which one are you going to believe? You have two sources of truth that contradict each other. Jeff Ward: So here's the thing, Christian, which one are you gonna stand on? Yeah. Which one are you gonna believe? You have two sources of truth that contradict each other. Which one are you gonna choose and say is true? Yeah. Therefore, are you gonna live like it, reckon it so, come to a logical conclusion that is so, whatever you know, those things we just talked about for that word consider? Do that and then your reality will turn into what God's word has said. Inperson participant 1: Which one are you going to choose and say is true? And therefore are you going to live like it, reckon it so, come to a logical conclusion that is so, whatever, you know, those things we just talked about for that word consider, do that and then your reality will turn into what God's word has said. Jeff Ward: Yep. But if you go, well no, I d I Inperson participant 1: But if you go, well no, I d I'm gonna dumb down God's word because you know I'm gonna be a slave to you. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Are you gonna dumb down are you gonna be a slave to God's word? You're gonna be a slave to your sen five senses and your circumstances. Jeff Ward: I'm gonna dumb down God's word because you know who am I gonna be a slave to? Take your pick. Yeah, that's it. Are you gonna dumb down are you gonna be a slave to God's word? You're gonna be a slave to your sense five senses. Yeah. Your circumstances. Good. Inperson participant 1: What else? Jeff Ward: That's all I got. We warn out. We warn out. All right, we warn out. Okay. Anything else? That's it. Okay. Thanks. Thanks, Randy. Inperson participant 1: That's it. All right, we worn them out. There you go. Anything else? That's it. Thanks. Thanks for anything.