Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #62: Interview with Karoline Bourdeau and Chris Jonas, Blind Sailing

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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #62: Interview with Karoline Bourdeau and Chris Jonas, Blind Sailing · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

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Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA,
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invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast,
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Remarkable World Commentary.
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Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
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insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
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Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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especially kids with disabilities.
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Donna is a blind advocate, author, site loss coach,
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dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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skills, and expertise in access technology and information as someone who has been
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internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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she just wants to make things better than possible.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary.
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I'm Donna Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
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through sound, touch and stubborn optimism.
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I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant,
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author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
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You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November of 2010,
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I won the Landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites
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accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones.
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And in July of 2019. I call it the Accessible Canada Act,
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with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law.
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And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late
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Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers.
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When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio,
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you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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gadgets talk back in plain language.
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Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
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everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where
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policy meets, lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas.
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Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
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let me shine a spotlight on today's guest changemaker,
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whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
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Today, I am pleased to welcome Karoline Bourdeau and Chris Jonas.
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So, Karoline, welcome to our podcast.
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Karoline Bourdeau: Thank you.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right, so I'd like to start things off by having you share the moment that you first
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realized that blind sailing Could be more than an experience that it could become your
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sport and your community.
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Karoline Bourdeau: Thank you. I'll start.
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By the first time I went sailing and I sat in the corner of the boat thinking,
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I don't like this. I don't want to do this.
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I don't trust this boat.
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Oh, no. This is not good.
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Oh, dear. And then about two years later I had been sailing for a while at
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that point, and people started saying, you want to race,
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you should come racing.
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And I was like, I am not the person you want racing because I don't know what I'm doing.
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And so three years ago now I joined a race.
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Thinking, okay, I'll try it just because I will try anything once.
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Almost. And there was something about the concentration,
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the shared goal, and actually making the quick decisions as you're at
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the helm of a boat. That just worked for me.
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And even though, you know, the first few minutes of a race,
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I'm all nerves. And I often wonder, why do they let me on these boats?
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It's an amazing experience, and I do love it.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I could hear in your voice how much you like it,
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right?
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Karoline Bourdeau: Yes.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I think it's it's great that, you know, blind sailing is there for us.
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As a blind host, I often navigate by sound, touch and clear language.
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Okay. For those listeners who have never sailed,
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can you walk us through the sensory feel of a good upwind grove?
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What you're listening for, what you're feeling through the helm and
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sheets and how you know you're trimmed, right?
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Karoline Bourdeau: Wow. Okay. So the sensory experience on a boat is like no other.
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There are so many things that you are feeling and listening for on a boat.
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So the direction of the wind.
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Where is it? On my face?
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Where is it coming from?
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Is it on my ears? How strong is it?
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Is the boat heeled over like is it?
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You know, how sideways is it?
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Chris and I are the same, and we like it really well heeled over.
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And you hear this if you're hearing your sails,
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that's called luffing.
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And that is probably meaning that you are not in the in the correct trim.
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And thankfully we have lovely sighted crew who can correct that for us.
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Or we can sometimes ask other blind sailors to change something in,
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in the lines, or sometimes it's just a simple adjustment that we make at the helm.
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On the boat with the tiller, you can feel the boat pull sometimes and and
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sometimes you can adjust you feel that on the wheel as well.
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But I find that the tiller is way more sensitive and way more responsive than a
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wheel for me. I don't know if that answers your question.
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Chris Jonas: So I'll just add add to that, if I may.
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So the things that Caroline mentioned are, are all accurate.
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It's also the, the, the sound of the water as it laps against the hull of the boat.
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If you if you feel that changing, then you know,
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something has changed and you need to get back into the groove.
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And usually you can also tell along with all the other things Caroline mentioned,
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you can tell by how the water feels against the hull of the boat.
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And when when Caroline was mentioning the sails luffing that generally means that
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you're sailing a little too close to the wind.
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So the best thing to do in that circumstance is to bear off the wind a little bit,
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and that usually resolves it.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Boy, this sounds really technical to me here.
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Well.
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Chris Jonas: Well, well, some of us, some of us as as you may know,
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are are quite avid racers as well as recreational sailors.
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So when you get into racing, you, you kind of get a lot more knowledgeable
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about how to adjust things and what's happening out there.
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It's it's a great way to learn more very quickly because you're in a very competitive
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environment usually, and you need to make decisions quickly.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Is there an age limit for racing?
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Like too old, too young, too old?
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Chris Jonas: That's an it's an interesting question.
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The short answer is no.
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There are racers that start like, basically soon after they start walking.
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I mean, their parents get them into sailing very,
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very young. And and a lot of those, those parents are racers themselves,
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so they, you know, they bring their, their, their kids along sometimes in terms of
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too old as long as, as long as you still have the strength.
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It's mostly a question of strength and agility on board,
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because sometimes you can get into a very rough situations.
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And if you still have the strength and the agility,
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like I, I've, I've raced with someone in his 80s and he was an excellent racer,
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you know so there's, there's no real upper limit.
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It just it's, it's very individual as to how that particular person is feeling and is able
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to adapt to the weather conditions and the and the racing conditions.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So there may be still hope for me then.
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Chris Jonas: Absolutely.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
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Karoline Bourdeau: Hey, if I got there, you can.
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Oh.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Lordy, no blind sailing.
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Canada runs a full Fall in season schedule, often seven days a week from mid-May to
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mid-October. How do you coordinate boats, weather calls,
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transportation volunteers, and staff safety so consistently?
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Chris Jonas: Well, that's a loaded question.
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Do you want to do you want to start answering that, Caroline?
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Karoline Bourdeau: Yeah. And then you can fill in on this.
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So we we actually have a scheduling website that we call the sailing app,
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and members, crew and skippers are all signed up for that as soon as they
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become members or are or have joined us as volunteers.
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And basically, it's a lot of it is, you know,
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a group of people says, I want to sail on Saturday.
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So they create a sail and now other everyone can join it because they can see it.
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And we have capacity on the different, the two different boats.
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So once a sail is full then it kind of disappears from the available sails.
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And sometimes we end up with the situation where both boats are out at the same time.
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And that's wonderful. We love to see that.
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And we actually do sometimes have a summer student through Canada summer jobs who helps
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with the coordinating of the different sails.
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The safety is like, our biggest concern, and our skippers and volunteers and our
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members actually are really quite careful and very good at learning what needs to be done
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and how to stay safe. Because safety, learning and fun are our three principles.
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And we really do enjoy an amazing community that is very aware and very inclusive and
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the transportation issue a lot of our members use wheel-trans some people carpool.
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Just depends on the situation, but I'll tell you,
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they get there.
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Chris Jonas: We also we also have pretty pretty good TTC access through various streetcars that
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will go very close, at least two different streetcar lines,
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one, one starting at Spadina station, one starting at Union Station.
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So it's actually quite easy to get there if you're comfortable using TTC.
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I'll, I'll, I'll add to the the safety question in that we have a very,
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very extensive volunteer vetting program.
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So any new volunteer interested in in joining our program must first go out on what we call
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a vetting sail with an experienced skipper who will assess their their boat knowledge,
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their sailing ability, just to make sure that they are comfortable
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both sailing the vessel in a very safe manner and also is comfortable dealing with blind or
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vision impaired members on board because that's the environment that they will they
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will be in when they actually go out on a real sail after they've passed the vetting
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section. So it's very important that they both know,
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know their way about a boat, know enough about sailing to be able to
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handle the boats in all weather conditions safely,
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and also feel very comfortable communicating with a demographic that they may not
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previously have had much exposure to, namely the blind community.
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So we look at every aspect of it, and we've had an incredibly successful
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history in terms of not have I don't think we've ever had any really major accident.
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We've had little, you know, little scrapes and minor accidents here and
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there that oftentimes is more the result of the weather than anything else.
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But we've done a remarkably good job of keeping all of our members and volunteers
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safe and also kept our boats away from any truly major damage.
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So you know, it's a great program in that regard.
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As Caroline said, safety is the number one concern.
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It always has been. And and Bsac or blind sailing has always done,
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I think, a really, really good job with with that particular aspect of it.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Where are you guys located?
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Like where is your base?
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Chris Jonas: So it's Marina Key West, which is in Toronto Harbor between Bathurst
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and Spadina.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
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Chris Jonas: Most people probably get off either, depending on well,
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most people take wheel-trans, which comes right into the parking lot,
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so very close to the Marina office.
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And then we'll usually have a volunteer meet them at the office and walk them to the
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boats. If they're coming by TTC, then you know,
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if they're on the Spadina line, they'll get off at the Queen's Key stop,
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which is Queens Quay and Spadina, and it's an easy walk over from there.
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Or if they're on the other line on the Queens Quay line that comes from Union,
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they'll get off at Dan Leckie, which is even a little bit closer to the
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Marina office. So it's quite accessible in that regard.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Your training pathway is aligned with mainstream standards and adapted for blind
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and low vision sailors.
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What does the first lesson look like?
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What are the first three skills that you teach,
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and how do you move someone from their first day sail to confidently helming?
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Chris Jonas: It's just it's just mostly practice, practice,
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practice, practice. The more exposure you get to it,
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the more skills you learn, the more comfortable you feel aboard a
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sailboat, the more your muscle memory kicks in.
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It's just it's just all.
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It's just really comes down to time in the boat.
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And the more you do it, the better you get at it.
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Just like a lot of a lot of things.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Yeah.
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Karoline Bourdeau: Some of us have done some you know, sale Canada training where,
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you know, we've spent time with an instructor on a boat.
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But it's not a requirement for our members.
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You know, most of us just get the experience by being on the boat.
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And I would say the first lesson just to go back to that is how to get on the boat safely
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and how to get off the boat safely.
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Because that's a huge, I think, point of concern for most of us as
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new sailors.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So for someone like myself who would probably need a refresher course,
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tell me what? Tell me what the first day would look like for me.
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Karoline Bourdeau: So you would be met at the Marina office?
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And then somebody would walk with you to the dock.
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You would be guided on to the boat, basically by someone showing you where the
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stanchion is. Put your hand on the boat and showing you where to step.
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And basically explaining where are things located on the boat and,
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you know, telling you where you should be.
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And then it goes from there.
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And the first sail is usually like, we try and make it a calm sail where it's not
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too windy, not a lot of heel on the boat so you can get to experience whatever you want
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to do. If you want to try and and see what lines feel like or how it feels to pull a
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line. Or if you want to get on the helm, you can try that as well.
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We'll make sure that we're in an open space where you can do that.
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And yeah, and a lot of people love it.
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They want to come back as soon as you put them on the helm.
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I think most of them say that.
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That's it.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, I did try it years ago, like I mentioned to you before with Susan and
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Francis. Maybe next year.
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I'm not going to promise, but you know.
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Yeah. No.
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Karoline Bourdeau: No.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Safety is foundational, right?
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What are your pre-departure routines?
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Okay. Okay. Rolls call and response commands.
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And how do you brief a brand new sailor so that they are safe and fully participating
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from the first time? So someone like myself.
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Karoline Bourdeau: Chris, do you want to take that on?
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Chris Jonas: So. So the first part of that question we do have a checklist,
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a digital checklist that that every skipper must fill out before leaving the dock.
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And it is they are required to go through the boat and and check off all of the required
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safety equipment that must be there.
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You know, things like a sound device in case you get close to another boat and you have no
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other way of letting them know that, that you're on a collision course,
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and maybe something's broken on our boat and we can't get out of their way or they don't
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see us. You need a sound device, a device to let them know things like a
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buoyant, heaving line in case someone falls overboard and you need something that floats,
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that you can toss out to them, because they may not know where it is,
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but you can toss it out and say, okay, it's it's two feet to your left.
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Just move to your left a couple of feet and grab it,
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and then we can pull them back into the boat.
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You know, things like a flashlight, fire extinguisher.
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There's a whole list of, of of safety equipment that must be on board.
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You know, flares in case you need to send a visual signal so other boats may see where
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you are if you're not near to anyone, that sort of thing.
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There's a whole list. And we skippers must go through that list.
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Check off each item in turn and make sure that they're there before and you know,
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and submit that. And then they must have that done before they're allowed to to leave the
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dock. So and it's the same on the way back when they're back in,
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we must make sure that all of that same equipment is still there and present and in
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the right place on the, on the boat, so that the next skipper can
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find it easily. So there's that.
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Caroline, do you want to.
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Yeah. Answer the next part of it.
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Karoline Bourdeau: Sure. So it's a requirement for blind sailing that before the boat leaves the dock that
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everyone is wearing a a PhD, and you can you can bring your own or you can
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use one of ours. Our boats have them on board in the different sizes.
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So basically we make sure the, the new person is fitted properly so that,
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that it's not too loose, it's not going to come off them or not too
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tight. So they're uncomfortable.
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And then like I said before, we try and walk them through the boat to show
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them where things are, talk to them about what's going to happen,
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try to describe to them you know what, What is happening?
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Like we're untying the boat right now.
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You know, we're going to pull out that sort of thing,
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and then we'll just keep them posted as to what is happening and when it's time that we
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can put up the sails, we we will ask them if they want to be
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involved in doing that, helping either tail or or pull lines,
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depending on, on how you know they're feeling and their strength or what they think they
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can do. Some people want to do absolutely nothing the first time.
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They just want to kind of observe and take it all in.
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So we're very flexible as to like what happens on the first day.
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But everyone is always offering information and guidance,
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and I think that goes for members and for crew as well.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Do I need to be a good swimmer in order to be able to enjoy fine sailing.
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I mean, I am a good swimmer, but I'm just curious.
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Chris Jonas: No, no. Not necessarily.
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I mean, you have an a certified PFD personal flotation device,
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which in the event that you, you fall in the water and are not a good
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swimmer. Yeah. That will keep you afloat until someone is able to come back and and
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pull you out of the water.
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And, you know, sailing is very interesting in that there is a a well known man overboard
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routine. Yeah. For how to go about returning back to where,
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you know, the, the person is in the water and,
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and making sure that they safely get back on board and,
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you know, it's, it's something that every sailor learns.
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It's part of the the basic cruising course.
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If you, if, you know, for those that have have taken that,
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and a lot of our members actually have.
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And we we even offer that through our through blind sailing.
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And we did that for many years.
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And so a lot of over time, a lot of our, our members already have that
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course and they know about things like that.
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But, you know, if you don't do it frequently then it's easily forgotten.
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So it's more important for the sighted crew to know those skills.
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And they're usually more, more adept, and they're the ones that we
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would rely on anyway to in that kind of a situation.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So let's talk a bit of tech here.
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What adaptive tools, audio compasses, talking GPS or smartphone apps do you
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actually rely on aboard, and what protocols do you use to make sure
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that information is timely, concise, and useful under load.
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Chris Jonas: The. I'll address that one.
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The truth is, Donna, that we don't really rely a great deal on any kind of,
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you know, audible technology or anything like that.
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We do have some devices that we use.
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It's mostly just for information more than something that our members rely on.
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For example, there's something called cell Timer that we have on one of our boats that
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gives all kinds of really useful information about,
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you know, what is the wind speed, what is the wind angle to the boat?
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Right. And if and it will give you you can and you can filter it to give more or less
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information. So it'll, it'll we we usually have just a limited
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amount of information coming out.
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Otherwise like it's constantly babbling because it will always tell you something.
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And it's easy to get lost in all of that.
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But, you know, it's really useful to know what's the wind speed and what's the the
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angle of the wind to the boat.
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So if you veer off that angle and you know you want to continue on that angle,
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then you can kind of turn the boat back to where you were before.
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And, and, and the sail timer will tell you as you're getting closer to it.
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We don't really use we don't really use talking compasses though or anything like
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that.
27:54
Karoline Bourdeau: No, I was going to add that, Donna, sailing is something that you really
28:00
need to do by feel. So as we were talking about before,
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it's really important for us to know what the wind is doing,
28:09
where our boat is and what things we need to do.
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And we also rely very heavily on our sighted crew to keep us in line.
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Communication is huge.
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So everybody on the boat participates in that,
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And what I love about sailing sometimes it's how peaceful and quiet it is.
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I don't want anything chattering at me.
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It's my time to get away from all the things that chatter at me.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I agree. Is there such a thing as a talking compass?
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Chris Jonas: Yeah. There is. We actually we had a couple at one at one point.
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I don't know where they got to over the years,
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but we never really used them very much so.
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But there is definitely such a thing.
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And the ones today are probably more advanced than the ones we had years ago.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'm curious to see how it works.
29:06
I mean, I got a very basic one many, many years ago.
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I wouldn't even call it useful.
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I mean, you pressed a button and it would tell you if you're facing east or west or
29:16
north or south, I you know, but I'm curious.
29:19
I mean, where would I purchase one of these.
29:24
Chris Jonas: A talking one? I could I couldn't even tell you off the top of my head.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Yeah. Okay.
29:31
Karoline Bourdeau: Show would be a place to look.
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But also, I actually played with my iPhone as a talking compass.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Yes.
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Karoline Bourdeau: And it works. But again, the problem with it was that it was
29:44
constantly talking. Every time I adjusted, it adjusted.
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So.
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Screen Reader: You know, I love it.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, that's the thing with the iPhone.
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It talks and talks and talks and talks and I mean I agree with you.
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You know, you go sailing, you want quiet moments.
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You don't want people chatting.
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Not people, but things chatting at you.
30:07
Right?
30:08
Chris Jonas: Yeah.
30:08
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. You sail and train on two very different boats.
30:16
The Catalina Capri 22.
30:20
Yes. Sea breeze Tiller and the 27 foot cruiser.
30:27
Catch the wind. I like that.
30:30
And how does each platform teach different skills?
30:36
And how do you decide which boat is right for a given sailor or session?
30:46
Chris Jonas: Caroline. Caroline already touched on that a little bit.
30:50
You're right. They are very different experiences.
30:54
One is five feet longer with a wheel versus a tiller.
31:00
Caroline talked about how the smaller boat, sea Breeze,
31:05
is more responsive and and just going by feel.
31:10
It's easier to feel the boat movements from the tiller than it is on the larger boat with
31:16
the wheel. So in terms of what is right for individual members,
31:21
it's, it's it's really up to the member themselves because some prefer,
31:29
I would say the majority probably prefer the larger boat because it's it's bigger,
31:34
it's more comfortable.
31:37
You know, there's more room for, you know, for for a dog if you bring it on
31:44
both above, above deck and below deck.
31:49
And it's a, it's a different it's a more of a leisurely feel.
31:53
Whereas the smaller boat we use that for racing and it's,
31:57
it's almost exclusively we use for racing because it's,
32:01
it's designed for that.
32:04
And we've been very successful in our racing program.
32:07
We race against the totally cited Fleet fleet at National Yacht Club and we do quite well.
32:16
But but there are, there is the occasional member that actually does prefer the smaller
32:22
boat just for that reason that they they feel they feel it's more responsive and they,
32:29
they're just more comfortable with that.
32:32
But the majority prefer the larger boat.
32:33
But, you know, we, we offer both boats obviously to,
32:37
to all the members. And it's really up to them,
32:42
as I said, to decide which one they prefer.
32:46
Karoline Bourdeau: What I for one prefer the smaller boat, but.
32:49
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, okay. But what's the difference between a tiller and a wheel?
32:54
For someone like me who is pretty naive about all of this?
32:58
Chris Jonas: So a wheel. A wheel is very similar to an automobile wheel,
33:03
if you think of that. Yeah.
33:05
You know, the same shape, the same design.
33:08
If you want to turn the boat starboard, starboard or right,
33:13
then you turn the wheel right.
33:14
If you want to go left, then you, you turn the wheel left.
33:21
So it's exactly the same idea as a steering wheel in a car,
33:29
right? The tiller is the opposite.
33:31
If you want to go port or left, then you you turn the the tiller in the
33:38
opposite direction because there is a rudder attached.
33:42
Well, I mean, there's a rudder attached in both cases.
33:45
But the way it the connection works with a tiller is opposite to how it works with a
33:52
wheel. So you need to turn the you need to turn the rudder.
33:56
You need to know which way you need to turn the rudder.
33:59
And it's always with a tiller.
34:01
It's always in the opposite direction to the way you want to go.
34:05
So that's, that's the main difference.
34:07
Other than the tiller, you feel more of the boat movement through
34:14
the tiller than you do through the wheel. So it's more responsive and easier to figure out
34:21
How? How? How to. You know, move.
34:25
Move the wheel or the rudder?
34:28
As opposed to the other boat.
34:29
So those are the main differences.
34:34
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Caroline, anything to add?
34:37
Karoline Bourdeau: Yeah, I just in case people don't know what a tiller looks like,
34:41
it basically looks like a horizontal stick.
34:48
Does that sound like a good description, Chris?
34:50
I was trying to figure out how you describe it.
34:52
Chris Jonas: Yeah, it's a it's a stick that that runs horizontally.
34:58
From the from the stern of the boat.
35:01
Where the where where it connects to the rudder immediately below.
35:07
And and horizontally. Sorry.
35:12
Vertically. Getting my directions mixed up vertically across the.
35:17
No, horizontally. I was right the first time.
35:19
Horizontally across the boat.
35:22
So usually when you're grabbing the tiller, you will grab it at the the end,
35:28
closer to the middle part of the boat.
35:32
Or on our boat, we have a, a traveler about a third of the way from the
35:37
back of the boat and the the tiller goes almost up to where the the traveler is.
35:44
And, you know, you you.
35:46
I'm sure you'll ask later what a traveler is.
35:49
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'm going to ask right.
35:50
Chris Jonas: Now and we can tell you, but, you know, it's it's used mostly for
35:53
racing. It's to fine tune the boat.
35:56
And but when you're using the tiller, you'll use the,
36:01
the end of the, the the stick that is most forward in the boat.
36:08
And that gives you better leverage in the boat.
36:13
It gives you better balance in the boat.
36:15
And it also, tillers also have something a wheel doesn't have,
36:23
which is a tiller extension.
36:26
Okay, so that is a separate attachment.
36:31
On the tiller that allows the the helms person if they want.
36:37
And not all of our members are comfortable with this, but you can use the tiller
36:42
extension instead of the tiller itself.
36:45
And that allows you to move higher up on the boats and,
36:50
and put your weight further to the side of the boat.
36:54
You're up higher, closer to the wind.
36:56
So you feel the wind better.
36:58
So there's all kinds of advantages with a tiller extension,
37:01
but it also takes a little bit of getting used to in order to use it.
37:05
Effectively.
37:07
Karoline Bourdeau: Yeah.
37:09
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think I owe it to myself to at least come out once or twice to to get familiar with all
37:15
of this. This is all new stuff to me.
37:18
I mean, I am a sweet person.
37:21
I love, I love the the lake, I love the ocean.
37:24
I love anything to do with water.
37:25
But this is really incredible.
37:30
Chris Jonas: Yeah. You should definitely come out.
37:32
Karoline Bourdeau: Yes.
37:33
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I see the clock is starting to wind down.
37:35
But you know what? Tell me, how could how could someone who is interested
37:43
join? Where do they go?
37:44
How do they get more information?
37:46
Are you looking for new members?
37:50
Karoline Bourdeau: Of course. We're looking for new members.
37:53
They can go to blind sailing.
37:58
And it is our newly redone website.
38:03
Calendar. Sorry.
38:04
Screen Reader: Accessibility meeting today.
38:06
Karoline Bourdeau: Sorry about that. That's okay.
38:09
And they can look it up there.
38:12
They're. Our contact information is right there.
38:14
They can send an email to info at Blind Sailing and someone will see that.
38:22
Or they can board members have I think, link contacts on the website as well.
38:30
They can reach out. And we're always looking for new members.
38:35
We're always looking for volunteers.
38:38
And skippers, of course.
38:41
Chris Jonas: And I was looking for donations.
38:44
Karoline Bourdeau: Yes, I was going to get to that as well.
38:47
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, tell me, do you have any special fundraising events planned?
38:53
For the near future?
38:57
Karoline Bourdeau: Well, this year we're not going to the boat show because we found over the last couple of
39:01
years that there aren't a lot of sailboats.
39:04
So we're finding that sailors are not going to the boat show,
39:07
so we're going at it a little bit differently.
39:11
We are just creating a fundraising committee to come up with new things for us to do,
39:21
but we always take donations through our website we take credit cards and you can
39:30
actually e-transfer to us at finance.
39:35
But we are hoping to be out in the community at different events that are hosted by the
39:42
different sailing clubs and yacht clubs.
39:45
Because, you know, networking in the sailing community is very important to us.
39:49
Yeah. And we'd be happy to keep you posted as to new events that come up.
39:55
We always have a monthly pub night, and people are always welcome to join that.
40:01
So if you reach out, we'll let you know where the next one would be.
40:05
And you're welcome to come out and meet some sailors.
40:10
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: How many members do you have at the present time?
40:14
Karoline Bourdeau: I actually looked and I think we have 30 members that are right now
40:25
and probably the same in crew or a little bit less.
40:32
But once people have volunteered with us, we,
40:35
we try not to let them go.
40:37
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right. Right, right.
40:40
Is there anything that either of you would like to share before we end our podcast?
40:45
And I would like, you know, if you guys wanted to come back at any time
40:49
because I think, you know, blind sailing, a lot of sighted people say,
40:53
but blind sailing, how does that how is that?
40:57
What how can it be? And I think, you know, like,
41:01
more publicity for blind sailing.
41:04
I know you do a lot of of publicity already, but I guess because of my interest in wanting
41:09
to at least try it once or twice.
41:14
Anything else you'd like to share?
41:17
Chris Jonas: I think I think just. And and Caroline again,
41:20
I think has touched on this, but we do have like the social component is
41:25
very, a very important aspect of the club.
41:29
Yeah. And that you know, part of the mandate of blind sailing is,
41:35
is to increase our members self-confidence, get them out more into the community
41:45
than maybe they would otherwise have had had an opportunity to do you know,
41:51
put them in a supportive, friendly environment with,
41:55
with other sailors that they already know.
41:59
And our, you know, our pub nights are one such avenue.
42:02
There's also other things like dock parties, which are held regularly on board our boats
42:08
during the course of the summer you know, usually at least once a month.
42:14
We occasionally would have a destination cruise on our boats to a place like Island
42:22
Yacht Club and go to their their clubhouse and have lunch there,
42:27
for example, as, as a whole group of members and volunteers.
42:31
So just always looking for opportunities to socialize and to integrate members with the
42:39
broader community. And that is an important mandate,
42:45
one of the mandates of blind sailing.
42:47
And I think most members really enjoy the social aspect as well.
42:52
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think that is terrific.
42:54
Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.
42:56
Karoline Bourdeau: The one other thing that I think we don't talk enough about and I know for me it's been
43:01
amazing is that the members can also be involved in boat maintenance so they can come
43:08
out to work parties and, and help prepare the boat for the season,
43:13
or help to put the boat away for the winter.
43:17
Occasionally help with repairs.
43:19
I think those are really good, interesting confidence building skills as
43:24
well, because, you know, once you've repaired a boat or you've done
43:27
work on it, you've come a little more familiar with it,
43:30
maybe you're more comfortable and you get to know people a bit better.
43:34
So there are lots of things to do.
43:37
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But for boat repair, like for someone like me,
43:40
I probably would be interested in learning more about boat repair.
43:44
Am I under the guidance of a sighted person?
43:47
Karoline Bourdeau: Yes, totally.
43:49
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
43:50
Chris Jonas: Yeah. Usually. Usually the club's fleet manager,
43:53
Theo would, would be in charge of of that.
43:56
And it's not just repair.
43:58
It's like there's all kinds of tasks you can do,
44:00
like help to to wax the boats, you know, help to,
44:05
to, to clean them. There's all kinds of things,
44:08
you know, putting boat both covers on in the fall and taking them off in the fall.
44:13
In the. In the spring.
44:14
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Spring?
44:15
Chris Jonas: Yeah. You know, there's things that you don't need any real knowledge.
44:19
You just need to follow instructions.
44:22
And a lot of that stuff is fairly straightforward,
44:25
but it's very important as well.
44:28
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So how do I as a potential.
44:30
Well, sailors where do I start.
44:34
What do I do. Like do I start with boat repair.
44:38
Do I start with with what.
44:41
Karoline Bourdeau: I would say by by actually.
44:43
Chris Jonas: With a sail. I mean that's probably the starting point for most people.
44:47
You probably want to do that before you get into,
44:50
you know, some of the work parties.
44:52
Yeah. The, the, the working part of it.
44:55
People, people don't always want to make the work part of it.
45:02
And there's, you know, there is a significant portion that is work
45:05
and does an incredible job Up coordinating all of that.
45:10
But, you know, a lot of members just want to come out sailing.
45:13
And, you know, we have actually probably a very small core group of volunteers and
45:19
members that will actually come out to the the hard work part of it,
45:27
but it needs to be done.
45:28
And, you know the ones that do come out really,
45:33
really highly appreciated by all because it is so important and so critical for the
45:39
continued success of the organization.
45:43
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Does your season start in May?
45:46
Karoline Bourdeau: As soon as we can get the boats in the water?
45:49
Yeah, usually.
45:51
Chris Jonas: Usually early May.
45:53
Karoline Bourdeau: Yeah.
45:54
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?
45:57
I mean, I think this is a fascinating topic.
46:01
You know, more people would love to know about blind sailing.
46:05
And is there anything else you would like to tell us?
46:11
Karoline Bourdeau: Just. You gotta try it.
46:12
That's the only thing I can say, because we can describe it all you want.
46:16
And until. But until you feel the boat move and you start to unravel what's happening and
46:23
and to learn for yourself, you won't really understand it.
46:30
Chris Jonas: Yeah. A lot of people have an unreasonable fear of sailing because it's just because
46:38
it's something they have no experience in and they don't know what to expect.
46:42
But there's really with our with the blind sailing,
46:45
there's really nothing to be afraid of.
46:48
We have excellent volunteers that will make sure of your safety,
46:53
that will show you the ropes, so to speak.
46:56
And you can do as much or as little as you want.
47:01
You will not be exposed to wind or water conditions that you are not comfortable with,
47:07
so there's really nothing to be afraid of.
47:10
It's just a really enjoyable experience and and a great thing to try if you've never done
47:15
it before. I mean, it's something everyone's got to try at least,
47:18
you know, once or twice.
47:20
Karoline Bourdeau: I'd say that, yeah.
47:21
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Is there a similar program in any of the other provinces?
47:26
Karoline Bourdeau: We're working on that.
47:27
So we've we've started a program in Vancouver this year,
47:33
and I have heard interest from Ottawa and from Halifax.
47:42
So we'll be working on those.
47:44
So, yeah. Coming soon.
47:46
Hopefully we'll be everywhere.
47:51
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Caroline and Chris, it was a pleasure having you today.
47:54
I mean, I've learned so much about tillers and wheels and on starboard and the port and
48:01
everything like that. I really enjoyed this podcast,
48:04
and I'd like to invite you to come back at any time.
48:08
If you think you know there's a way to publicize what you're doing.
48:12
If I can do anything through these podcasts, we have hundreds or thousands of listeners
48:17
worldwide, so please don't hesitate to reach out.
48:23
Chris Jonas: Will do.
48:24
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much, folks.
48:26
And you will probably see me.
48:29
I'm. Knock on wood here next year, at least to try it and see what goes on.
48:36
Karoline Bourdeau: That would be wonderful.
48:38
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much and have a great rest of the day.
48:42
Chris Jonas: Yes. Well. Thanks, Donna.
48:44
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hi, Chris. Hi, Caroline.
48:49
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna at gmail.com.
48:55
Until next time.