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1976: Tracking Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers (with Brad Johs) · Hangin' Out with Bob

0:07
Okay, welcome to “Hanging Out with Bob,” a podcast
0:11
hosted by me, Bob Edholm. Thanks for joining
0:17
us and let's get started. When I got together
0:22
with my friend Brad Johs in late July 2026 to
0:26
record a podcast episode about the timeless music
0:29
of Tom Petty, it was a thrill for me, and I'm
0:32
sure for our listeners too, to hear Brad's wealth
0:35
of knowledge of Tom's work. But with such a large
0:39
catalog of work that Tom Petty gave to the world,
0:42
it feels like Brad and I only scratched the surface
0:44
of that timeless music in our original podcast
0:47
episode. So what Brad and I would like to do
0:50
is to record a series of shorter but comprehensive
0:54
“deep dives” into each original studio album that
0:57
Tom Petty was part of, whether it was with Heartbreakers,
1:02
his solo albums, the Traveling Wilburys, or his
1:05
original group Mudcrutch. In this first episode
1:11
of “deep dives” into the timeless music of Tom
1:13
Petty, Brad will share with us his thoughts and
1:16
insights on the self-titled debut album, Tom
1:20
Petty and the Heartbreakers, which was released
1:22
on November 9th, 1976. Produced by Denny Cordell,
1:27
this debut album blends Southern rock, jangle
1:31
pop, and garage rock, featuring timeless tracks
1:34
like “Breakdown” and the iconic “American Girl.”
1:38
When you search for the album cover online, you'll
1:41
see that the front cover for Tom Petty and the
1:44
Heartbreakers features a close-up portrait of
1:46
Tom Petty himself. He was born in October of
1:49
1950, so he was all of about 25 years old at
1:53
the time. He's wearing a black leather jacket
1:56
with a defined smirk. captured by Ed Caraeff,
2:00
an acclaimed American photographer and art director
2:03
best known for capturing the iconic 1967 photograph
2:07
of Jimi Hendrix burning his guitar at the Monterey
2:11
Pop Festival. But Caraeff also designed over 400
2:14
album covers for major music legends during the
2:18
1960s and 1970s. Anyway, the edgy portrait of
2:22
Tom Petty on this album cover gave him the look
2:25
of, as one writer put it, an outsider punk-rock
2:29
swagger. Now initially, this 10-track record
2:33
sold poorly in the United States, but after the
2:36
Heartbreakers crossed the pond and toured the
2:39
UK, the album gained traction abroad, hitting
2:43
number 24 on the UK charts. And then buoyed by
2:47
persistent promotion and the single breakdown,
2:50
the album eventually peaked at number 55 on the
2:53
US Billboard 200 in 1978 and was certified gold.
2:59
It's definitely a classic album, though, because
3:01
it introduced to the world a timeless punchy
3:04
blend of jangly guitars, bluesy grooves, and
3:08
distinctively raspy vocals that helped launch
3:11
a genre of music that came to be known as Heartland
3:14
Rock. So for now, sit back, relax, and have a
3:19
listen as Brad Johs shares his thoughts and
3:22
insights on Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers self
3:25
-titled debut studio album. So Brad, welcome
3:31
back to “Hangin’ Out with Bob.” It's good to see
3:33
you again. Good to see you too. First thoughts
3:40
about Tom Petty and Heartbreakers debut album.
3:43
It was released on November 9th, 1976. Can't believe
3:47
that's almost 50 years ago. But was that the first
3:49
Heartbreakers album that you heard in its entirety
3:51
or did it come a little later for you? Well,
3:54
no, that you got to kind of keep in mind that
3:58
when this album came out I was four, Bob. So, you
4:03
know, how old were you, Bob? Well, I was in my
4:05
20s. So, you know, so I was four when this came
4:13
Out, but the first album I remember hearing in its
4:15
Entirety, and the first one I bought was actually
4:17
“Damn the Torpedoes,” and I kind of got into everything
4:20
that came before that and everything that came
4:22
after that, and this was, you know, in the 90s or
4:25
Whatever, is when I got into the Tom Petty stuff.
4:28
Yep. You know, or like early 90s, you know, I finally
4:31
went to my first concert in about ‘95 when I was
4:33
22 years old, or whatever, at the time. So,
4:37
you know, I wasn't able to travel a lot, obviously,
4:39
because of age. I grew up in Fargo. There wasn't
4:41
a whole heck of a lot of entertainment as far
4:43
as concerts up there. But, you know, it's funny,
4:46
because a couple of years, I do remember they
4:49
came out with the playback box set. That came
4:51
out about ‘96 or whatever. And I remember getting,
4:55
and that was previously unreleased, it was one
4:57
of the first jumbo box sets that Tom Petty had
4:59
put out in in that time, or whatever, and there
5:02
was unreleased stuff, and there was stuff from
5:04
all the different albums. But what I do remember
5:07
about that is I remember being a senior in college
5:10
and selling my books back, and then using the
5:12
money from when I sold my books back to go buy
5:15
that, to buy the playback box set. But no, probably
5:21
90s is when I first heard this one. The first
5:23
one I heard in its entirety was the “Damn the Torpedoes,”
5:26
was the first one I owned on cassette. And then
5:28
I bought this one on CD. And I still have the
5:31
CD for this. When you finally did hear the debut
5:36
album, when you did hear it, what was your first
5:38
impression? Knowing that that was their first
5:40
album? Well, I mean, I thought it was great from
5:43
the standpoint. It had a lot of, you know, a
5:46
lot of people put out an album and the album
5:47
sounds the same. You hear one track, it sounds,
5:50
you know, you hear one or two tracks and the
5:51
rest of the whole album sounds like that, or whatever.
5:54
This album had a lot of variety to it. It had
5:56
a lot of different feeling, a lot of different
6:00
tempos. And it was recorded at different periods
6:04
at different times, or whatever. We talked before
6:07
how in our first broadcast to millions of people
6:11
that are out there... We talked about how Mudcrutch,
6:16
you know, kind of folded and then Tom picked up,
6:19
you know, what was a band that Benmont was actually
6:21
recording with, and that's what became the Heartbreakers.
6:23
Yeah. Well, the thing, reason why he did that is
6:26
because when Tom was recording the first album,
6:29
you know, Denny Cordell had top studio musicians
6:31
recording with him, you know, (Emory Gordy, who
6:34
was Elvis's bass player, you know, Jim Keltner,
6:39
who later on to play with, you know, play on
6:41
with the Wilburys, you know, he was the drummer's
6:43
drummer, you know, so they had all these great
6:46
players. Al Kooper was playing keyboards with
6:49
him and played with Dylan and played with the Stones
6:51
and all these other artists. And so they had
6:53
all these great studio musicians, but it wasn't
6:55
gelling. and it wasn't working for him. And so
6:58
part of the album was recorded, “Luna” was a song
7:02
that just Tom and Stan recorded. They went back
7:04
to Tulsa, Oklahoma to pick up some recording
7:07
gear and stuff like that for Denny. And they
7:09
recorded it, just the two of them at that studio,
7:12
or whatever. So it was just the two of them doing
7:14
that. So there was a lot of variety, a lot of
7:17
different sounds to it. But yeah, I thought...
7:18
the depth in the writing and, and, you know, you
7:21
look at some of the lyrical content and how advanced
7:23
he was as a writer in ‘76 you know being that
7:26
young at that time how good it was 25 years old
7:30
wasn't even that, yeah, and it still holds up today
7:33
and that's the thing and you said that you, you
7:35
got the CD when you finally did buy this then
7:38
after you, yeah, so okay, yeah, that was ‘90s. yep.
7:41
Let's talk about the sound and style of this
7:45
Album. Again this was 1976, you know, the mid-70s
7:49
when it came out. And musically, I mean, now
7:52
when you look back, where did this album kind
7:54
of fit in for the music of that time? You know,
7:56
you had the traditional Southern rock bands,
7:59
and these guys were from Gainesville, Florida,
8:01
But, you know, you think of the Allman Brothers
8:02
or Lynyrd Skynyrd or something. But at the same
8:05
time, you also had, across the pond, you had a
8:07
rising punk and new wave movement come along.
8:10
Where did this sound kind of fit in that spectrum
8:13
of music? You know, the thing is, when, when it
8:16
first came, out everybody thought it, thought it
8:18
was punk because of the, the album cover, right,
8:20
Yeah, the black leather jacket and kind of a smirk
8:22
on his face, yeah, oh, it's punk, yeah, it wasn't.
8:26
Maybe punk about is maybe some of the attitude
8:30
and some of the, you know, some of the way he sings
8:33
and some of his ads it wasn't really a traditional
8:36
southern rock album it doesn't know anything
8:38
like Skynyrd or the Allman Brothers or any, any
8:40
of that influence whatsoever, but it was more
8:43
like based on, on, it was based on Tom's, you
8:46
know, Tom's musical idols, you know, Chuck Berry
8:50
and Bo Diddley, and that kind of stuff. And that's
8:53
what you hear in the album. You know, “American
8:55
Girl” is actually, you know, we thought it was
8:58
like a Byrds song. Well, no, it's actually a Bo
9:00
Diddley, you know, triple beat. That's Bo Diddley.
9:08
“Hometown Blues” is kind of like a Chuck Berry
9:10
song. It was just that typical shuffle, or whatever,
9:15
that kind of sound. And so that was more the
9:19
influence of that. So it really kind of fell
9:21
into, it was influenced by, it came from his
9:24
influences, but it was his own flavor on the
9:27
rock and roll sound which was what he was doing.
9:29
And he was struggling with stuff at the time
9:31
as far as being a songwriter. Some stuff was
9:32
working, some stuff wasn't working. And that
9:35
first album took him a lot. Took a lot to get
9:38
out right, took a long time to get out too. Yep
9:40
Yep, you know you mentioned you were only four
9:42
years old in 1976, but I remember at that time,
9:46
that arena rock was huge. A lot of a lot of the
9:50
British bands like, you know, Pink Floyd and Led
9:53
Zeppelin and, and some of these groups, they
9:55
Played, they have, you know, 20-minute drum solos,
9:58
and they'd have sometimes full orchestras, and
10:00
it was really a show, a big production, but the
10:02
Heartbreakers weren't like that. I mean, they
10:04
just were playing rock and roll and stuff you
10:06
were stomping your foot to and just really grooving
10:10
along with it. Well, you know, they were a club
10:12
band, you know, and that's something that people
10:14
forget about, you know. You know, in ‘76, you
10:17
could go down to, you know, Winterland and see
10:20
Tom Petty and Greg Kihn and Bruce Springsteen
10:23
and all these artists that are just playing clubs
10:25
at the time. Yeah, true. They weren't playing
10:26
big things. So they didn't they didn't have the
10:28
big production. Like, you know, they weren't
10:30
Led Zeppelin. It wasn't arena rock, as you say.
10:33
No, it wasn't arena rock, you know, or it wasn't
10:35
“Frampton Comes Alive,” or anything like that, you
10:37
know. Talk a little bit about Denny Cordell,
10:44
the producer. that first album, what did he bring
10:48
to the group, or what did he do for those guys
10:50
as producer? Cordell had a tremendous amount
10:52
of success, or whatever, producing British groups,
10:55
he produced Bob Marley, he produced a lot of
10:57
different acts like that. So he knew what it
11:00
would take for what a hit would be, you know,
11:03
he knew what kind of a sound he was going for,
11:05
he kind of knew what Tom should be marketed as.
11:08
And so that was, you know, his influence on when
11:11
they were in the studio recording the album,
11:14
Jim Keltner was just hanging out in there, giving
11:18
some ideas to Stan on playing the beat for “Breakdown.”
11:22
Stan was having trouble getting the beat for
11:23
“Breakdown.” Jim says, “Put one arm behind your
11:25
back and then just feel it and play it like that.”
11:28
And that's what he did, and that's how he picked
11:30
up that beat for “Breakdown.” He had the guys
11:35
that, you know, the Beatles were there, you know,
11:37
he had some members of the Beatles that were
11:38
hanging out in the studio. And so he had all
11:40
these guys kind of help influencing and helping
11:42
with the recording and getting some ideas and
11:45
that kind of stuff. So he had that kind of an
11:48
influence. And then like I said, some stuff wasn't
11:50
working. So he sent Tom and Stan back to the
11:54
studio of what they called “The Church” in Tulsa,
11:57
Oklahoma. And they did some recording there because
12:00
it's cheaper to record in Tulsa, Oklahoma than
12:02
it is in LA. But they had this wonderful, you
12:06
know, this great sound. And Cordell, Shelter
12:09
Records was started with Cordell and Leon Russell.
12:11
You know, yeah. And Leon Russell was, you know,
12:15
part of the Wrecking Crew, one of the great studio
12:18
musicians, a great musician on his own. Tom was
12:21
hanging out, staying at his house, recording
12:23
at Leon's studio and his home studio and stuff
12:26
like that. So he would watch the house on, he'd
12:28
watch the house when Leon was on tour, or whatever.
12:31
And so that, that was part of the influence. And
12:33
that was part of how Shelter Records actually
12:35
started. Let's talk about the album itself, the
12:41
finished product. Obviously, you got Tom Petty.
12:44
He's the front man, and he wrote the songs. But
12:46
talk about the rest of the band that was on that
12:49
record. You had Mike Campbell as the lead guitar
12:51
player. You had Benmont Tench on the keyboards.
12:53
And then you had Ron Blair was the bass, and
12:56
then Stan Lynch was the drummer. Talk a little
12:58
bit about each of them and what they contributed
13:01
to that album. I have anybody might contributed
13:04
the most of that, you know when, when Tom got
13:06
signed it was agreed that it was gonna be Tom
13:09
Petty and then Mike was basically his guitar
13:13
player, you know, that was the agreement, so Mike
13:16
was put on a, you know, a weekly stipend of, like,
13:20
60 bucks, or whatever, you know. That's what he
13:22
was getting paid from Shelter Records to work
13:24
with Tom and writing these songs, recording this
13:26
Stuff, so it's kind of those two right off the
13:28
bat, but And then you got Benmont. Benmont's
13:32
just a master musician. He comes in there and
13:35
he can figure anything out. He can play anything.
13:38
And he was schooled in music. And the guy was
13:40
just brilliant as far as a musician goes. Ron
13:45
Blair, great bass player, great singer, back
13:48
up stuff. And then Stan was just a powerhouse.
13:52
I mean, he was a beast. That's what they described
13:54
him as, the way he played. He played heavy and
13:56
he played hard. And his backup vocals, you know,
14:00
helped Tom a lot, you know, because till they
14:02
got Howie late in the later years, you know,
14:04
They… Howie is Howie Epstein. Okay. Yep. Okay.
14:08
But they didn't have such phenomenal backup vocals,
14:10
you know, Benmont might help out a little bit and
14:12
you know, but it was primarily Stan and Tom singing
14:15
most of the stuff. Okay, so, but that, that was
14:17
part of the influence. But those guys were all
14:18
from Gainesville. And so, right, you know, you're
14:20
out there in LA, you don't know anybody, you
14:22
kind of go back to your old, you know, your old
14:24
friends, or whatever, just kind of stick together,
14:26
you know. That was the connection and like I
14:28
said, you know, it started out with it started
14:31
out with studio music. So some of the greatest
14:33
studio musicians and touring musicians in the
14:35
World. But Tom wasn't vibing with them. It wasn't
14:39
clicking. He wasn't really feeling it, you know,
14:42
and part of being a band is part of that feeling
14:45
of that intertwined in that, that chemistry that
14:48
right together, you know. You mentioned Led Zeppelin
14:51
earlier, you know, one of the things is when
14:53
when John Bonham died Yeah, they could have gotten
14:56
another drummer, but the chemistry would have
14:58
been the same. That's why they just said, “We’re
15:01
done.” That was the end of that. So that was the
15:04
thing. Tom liked playing in a band. He liked
15:06
playing with the band. But the more you play
15:09
together with the band, the tighter you get them.
15:11
You know what one guy is going to do. You know
15:13
this guy is going to do this. You know this guy
15:15
is going to do this. And you can kind of feel
15:17
it. And that's part of that interaction. That brotherhood,
15:21
or whatever. And so when you got studio musicians,
15:23
you got a guy who comes and records the track
15:25
here, a guy who comes and records his part here,
15:27
you don't get that. And that's why Tom, till
15:30
the very end, liked to live track everything,
15:32
where the whole band would just play together.
15:35
And then that's why there was sometimes, they
15:37
talked about 150 takes, or whatever, I think it
15:41
was for “Refugee,” or something like that. He wanted
15:44
to make sure they had the perfect take where
15:46
everything gelled together and everything sounded
15:48
right. That was part of that. I just thought
15:50
it was really cool that the fact that they all
15:52
moved to LA and stayed, I mean, they all grew up in
15:55
Gainesville, but they all ended up in LA to record
15:57
that record, you know, it was a home team sort
16:00
of your hometown kids all together So part of
16:03
that we talked about Mudcrutch also, you know
16:05
You know, Tom ended up firing, Tom fired Tom
16:09
Leadon from Mudcrutch, you know, over a gig issue,
16:13
or whatever. And Tom Leadon, his brother was
16:17
Bernie Leadon, you know, from the Eagles. Prior to
16:20
that, he was playing in the Flying Burrito Brothers
16:22
with Chris Hillman. He was playing with Linda
16:24
Ronstadt on tour. So after Bernie left Linda Ronstadt
16:30
to start this little band called the Eagles or
16:32
whatever, he told Tom to come out there. So Tom
16:37
Leadon moved to LA and he was playing with
16:39
Linda Ronstadt. He toured with her in like ’74,
16:41
or whatever, you know. And so when they called
16:44
out there, it's like, hey, what's it like? He's
16:46
like, yeah, you should come out here. There's
16:48
this and there's that. There's these gigs and
16:50
I'm doing this and I'm doing that, or whatever.
16:52
So that also inspired him to get everybody out
16:55
to LA. Let's talk a little bit about the songwriting
17:00
and the performance of the band itself. When
17:03
the album debuted, from what I've read, some
17:05
music writers kind of compared Tom Petty's singing
17:08
style to that of, one, Bob Dylan or else the Byrds’
17:12
frontman Roger McGuinn. What are your thoughts
17:15
on that? Did you ever hear those comparisons?
17:17
Oh, yeah, I've heard those comparisons quite
17:19
a bit. Not necessarily, you know, a put down.
17:22
It's almost kind of like a flattering thing that
17:24
they like to style, I guess, and compared him
17:27
to those guys. And there was some Elvis in there
17:30
that was mixed in. You would hear some Elvis
17:32
influence with his vocals also. When he was first
17:34
starting out, he was kind of finding his voice,
17:36
so he would sound like his influences. And that's
17:39
just natural in the music evolution process.
17:42
Whatever instrument you're starting out with,
17:43
you're going to start sounding like your influences
17:45
at first. And then eventually, you get your own
17:49
sound. And that's where it comes from and goes
17:51
to. Of course, he was really close friends with
17:53
Bob Dylan, too, right? I mean, they were in the
17:55
Wilburys later. Yeah, they toured and stuff like
17:58
that, you know, ‘86 or ‘87 or wherever they wanted
18:02
to tour together. So yeah, absolutely. And like
18:04
I said, they were all kind of hanging out at
18:06
the time. And so they'd run into each other and
18:08
see each other in the studio. The next question
18:11
I had was, how much did Petty's upbringing in
18:14
Gainesville shape the attitude and the stories
18:17
behind some of the lyrics of his songs? In the
18:20
first album, not so much. The only thing is he
18:24
references in “American Girl,” you know, sounds
18:28
like 441, you know, like 441 on lake waves crashed
18:32
on the beach, and 441 is, you know, is a highway
18:35
that runs through Gainesville. And I guess it
18:37
runs all the way up to Nashville, or whatever.
18:39
You can take it all the way up there. But that's
18:42
about the only reference in the first album that
18:45
he makes to Gainesville. He references it later
18:48
in some of the later albums, like the “Echo” album.
18:52
He's got a song called Gainesville, which he
18:55
never actually released. And then there's Dreamville,
18:58
which he sings about, which is also about Gainesville.
19:00
It's about all the locations and spots in Gainesville
19:03
that he remembers as a kid. And some of them
19:07
are still there. I was talking about some of
19:09
the fast and up-tempo songs of the album. I
19:12
found, because I was listening to this album
19:14
a lot as we were getting ready to prepare for
19:15
this interview, Brad, but I think it's a great
19:17
opening track, that “Rockin' Around (With You).”
19:20
You know, it sounds like that time, it sounds
19:22
like about something would come out in 76, but
19:24
I just love it because, like I said, the tempo,
19:27
you can't help but just be tapping your foot
19:28
along as you hear it, so. Yeah, absolutely. And
19:31
reading Mike Campbell's book, the Heartbreaker
19:36
book that Mike Campbell wrote (Heartbreaker: A Memoir), he said that they
19:38
actually recorded everything in the opposite
19:41
order. Originally, they thought the album was
19:42
going to be the other way around. So they were
19:45
going to start with “American Girl” and then...
19:48
it ended up that was going to be the very last
19:50
song, and they thought Rockin' Around (With You)” was
19:52
going to be the last song, but that actually
19:53
ended up being the very first song. So they kind
19:56
of took the order and just flipped around. That
19:58
was Denny's idea to do that. Interesting. I think
20:01
they're great bookends, though. I mean, it starts
20:03
off, you know, up tempo and it ends up tempo.
20:06
You just feel really good, you know, at the start.
20:08
And then when it ends that way, too, I think
20:10
it's just great the way they fit them. It both
20:13
ends with the album. Yeah, absolutely. And then
20:16
there's all kinds of wonderful stuff in between
20:18
there, you know? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Not all
20:20
that makes it on the radio. That's the saddest
20:22
thing about radio is some of the best music never
20:24
makes it on there. Yeah, it's hard to get some
20:25
of those deep cuts on the radio, so. Yeah, don't
20:28
bore us, get to the chorus. This is kind of a
20:37
historical question from what I was reading.
20:40
Why did it take the album so many months, plus
20:43
the re-release of “Breakdown,” before it really
20:45
started to connect with mainstream radio listeners,
20:48
at least in the States? The album actually, it
20:50
kind of... It kind of died coming out in ‘76.
20:54
There was little success. They had a little bit
20:56
of success over in England. And the thing is,
21:00
England has always been more advanced and more
21:03
accepting of a lot of music in the United States.
21:07
Jimi Hendrix was a hit in England. The British
21:12
blues guys, they were all hits over in England
21:14
before anybody else. Like I said, they're a little
21:17
more advanced, they're a little more open-minded
21:20
to stuff. And they kind of appreciate stuff for
21:22
what it is. And that's England. It doesn't matter
21:27
whether it's sexuality, it doesn't matter if
21:30
it's art, it doesn't matter if it's music, it
21:32
doesn't matter if it's TV, movies, any of that
21:34
kind of stuff. Like I said, it's just part of
21:36
the culture. They're more open to that. So that's
21:38
why they had more success out there. What happened
21:41
is... the Heartbreakers band, it was kind of
21:44
dying out. The album got released. There wasn't
21:45
really much going on. And then there was a music
21:49
promoter, Jon Scott. And Jon Scott worked for
21:54
ABC Records and MCA Records and a bunch of them.
21:57
And he started his job and he said he went into
22:00
his office and he found this album in his office
22:02
and he put it on the turntable and he put his
22:04
headphones on. And he was just blown away by
22:07
how good this album was. This is the debut album
22:10
you're talking about. This is the debut album.
22:13
Yeah. And so he was, he was instrumental. Not
22:15
only did he help Petty, he also helped John Cougar
22:17
because John Cougar's first album had the same
22:20
problem. It kind of stalled out when it came
22:21
out. It wasn't getting any airplay. So Jon Scott
22:25
was the one that pushed and promoted it and got
22:28
it to the record, you know, got it to the radio
22:30
and got it for all these different venues and
22:33
got it heard across the country. And that was,
22:37
you know, that really sprung. that that album
22:40
for them that really got it kicked off there
22:42
whatever and then quickly after that you know
22:44
shortly after that they came out with a second
22:45
album while the first one was starting to pick
22:48
up steam they already came out with the second
22:50
one right after that, too, and released that one
22:52
shortly afterwards also but, yeah, you know, it's
22:56
funny because “Into the Great Wide Open,” or whatever,
22:58
you know Tom Petty later references you know
23:01
our A&R man doesn't hear a single, and that was
23:04
a reference that they were talking about with
23:06
“Full Moon Fever,” well, we don't hear a single, you
23:08
Know, we don't hear a hit on there. Well there
23:11
was five hits on that, you know, so that's that
23:15
shows that sometimes these record execs aren't
23:17
aren't right either. No, they're not right every
23:19
time, no, what they're doing wow interesting but
23:21
that's what happened that's how it it took that
23:23
extra push from Jon Scott to get that album
23:25
off and going. How does this first record the
23:30
debut album stack up against well like his later
23:33
masterwork like you said the first one you bought
23:35
“Damn the Torpedoes,” how would you compare those
23:36
Two. How would you stack up to “Damn the Torpedoes?”
23:40
Well “Damn the Torpedoes” had, it had a different producer,
23:44
Jimmy Iovine was producing that. It had a different
23:47
sound, it had a totally different feel to it,
23:50
how it was written and all that was going on.
23:54
This was the time they were going through the
23:55
lawsuit, there was Century City and there was
23:57
all these other things going on that Petty was
23:59
enduring. So it's got a different influence,
24:03
it's got a different sound to it. That's how
24:06
I would compare it. I've got all these great
24:08
albums. There are certain tracks on there that
24:10
really relate to some people. There are certain
24:12
tracks that don't relate to other people. And
24:15
So, that's the thing with music. It's great about
24:18
that. Let's talk about some of the other key
24:23
songs on this album. “Breakdown” and “American Girl”
24:26
probably by far the most. well -known songs from
24:29
the album, but name at least a few others that
24:31
you really love to hear. It's always resonated
24:35
with you. “Strangered in the Night,” that's a great
24:37
one. “Luna,” that's a great one. Oh yeah, the slow
24:40
one, yeah, the slow tempo. Yeah, and “The Wild One
24:43
Forever,” you know, yeah and the thing and the
24:45
thing is “The Wild One Forever,” when I first heard
24:47
It, I was kind of, okay. It's great, or whatever.
24:49
But you know, that's actually my wife's song
24:52
because that kind of describes her, you know
24:54
from that standpoint And so now I listen to that
24:57
song completely, completely differently than what
25:00
I you actually used to listen to that one You
25:02
know, you know, they say they call her they call
25:04
you the wild ones that stay away from her She
25:06
could love no one if she tried, you know, and
25:09
then something I saw in her eyes Told me right
25:11
away that you were going to have to be mine.
25:14
And so that was part of, like I said, that that
25:17
song didn't used to resonate with me, but now
25:19
it resonates. Sure. Sure. Because of that. Yeah.
25:22
You know, and then and then you look at lyrics.
25:24
You know, the thing is, he's so great about lyrics,
25:27
you know. Fooled again, or whatever. If two is
25:30
one, I might as well be three. What a great line
25:34
that is. Is that “Fooled Again (I Don't Like
25:36
It”) or something? Yeah, basically it's where he's
25:39
the third wheel, or whatever, relationship is kind
25:41
of what it's about. So he's got that where he's
25:44
the third wheel and then he's got the one where
25:45
he wants to be her mystery man. That's also on
25:47
there. Oh yeah, “Mystery Man,” right? Yeah, so
25:50
it's kind of the same kind of thing. But that's
25:52
some of those great lines from that. but you
25:55
know you look at the lyrics for you know, um, “Strangered
25:59
in the Night,” you look at the lyrics what is this
26:01
what is the song really about you know you talk
26:03
about his imagery okay so “…it was dark at midnight,
26:06
there was hardly any moon, and no one really saw
26:09
Much, no one was really sure, but something didn't
26:12
seem right, something was kinda queer, a roar
26:15
turned into whispers, everyone stood there,” okay?
26:18
Now, with “…the sound that split the night,
26:20
They ran hiding from the light, like strangers
26:23
in the night, strangers in the night,” okay? So,
26:26
you know, what are they talking about? So then
26:28
they go into the next line: “Well, I didn't see
26:30
them shotguns, I didn't see no knife, but I saw
26:33
this crazy black guy with the demon in his eyes,
26:36
and I heard somebody say, ‘White man, I've seen
26:40
that silver cue. You don't remember me, well,
26:43
but I remember you,” you know, and that goes into
26:46
the next line, you know, we're, where it goes
26:49
into the chorus “strangers in the night and then
26:51
goes into the more imagery: “Well the knife just
26:54
left his fingers as the black guy took his aim.
26:57
White guy's head exploded, the black guy howled in
27:00
Pain,” and “then everybody scattered. I heard some
27:03
woman scream God damn you old black bastard,
27:06
you've blown away my dreams.” you know,
27:09
And, and so that's, you know, that's very graphic
27:13
and that's a very, you know, you know, it's, it's
27:17
an elegant way to sing about, you know, I mean,
27:21
wars and, you know, race wars, and, and things like
27:24
that, which is still a problem and relevant,
27:27
you know, today, 50 years later. Yes. You know, and
27:30
So, that's part of the magic of some of Tom's
27:35
writing. It's still relevant. It still rings
27:38
a chord. And if people actually really went and
27:40
listened to that, they go, “Holy crap, that's
27:44
as accurate as it ever was.” The more things change,
27:48
the more they stay the same. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
27:52
That's a lot of it. About this album, Brad, of
27:57
the many times you've seen Tom Petty over the
28:00
years, Have you heard most of the songs in that
28:03
album? Do you think you've heard all 10? Or is
28:05
there some you just never really heard him play
28:07
live? Or maybe there were some he just didn't
28:09
play live. I don't know. Well, like “Strangered in
28:13
the Night.” Did you hear him play that live?
28:16
Don't think I've I ever heard him play “Strangered
28:18
in the Night.” Okay, I know my wife Wendee has,
28:21
because she was at the concerts long before I
28:23
was, or whatever. Okay, okay, but I didn't hear
28:26
him from, from the areas that I was going to concerts
28:28
I didn't hear him play things like “Strangered in
28:30
the Night.” Yep “Rockin’ Around (With You).” I've heard
28:33
him do that, you know, “Luna,” I've heard him do
28:35
that in concert. “Hometown Blues” and “Breakdown.”
28:42
Here's what we haven't done for a while. Pulling
28:43
out, or whatever, you know, whether it might not
28:45
have been on the list or it might've gotten added
28:47
to the list that night, or whatever, just to kind
28:49
of keep it fresh. He threw something in there.
28:54
Hypothetical. Say you're in a pub-style restaurant
28:57
with a commercial digital jukebox that can play
28:59
any song from this Tom Petty debut album. What
29:04
would be the first song you would pick? I'd probably
29:06
pick “Luna.” Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Everybody's,
29:09
you know, “American Girl” gets all kinds of play,
29:12
“Breakdown” gets all kinds of play. You know, some
29:14
of the other ones, you know, “Anything That’s Rock ‘N’ Roll,” “Fooled Again (I
29:16
Don’t Like It.” That gets played quite a bit. That gets
29:19
some radio stuff. But “Luna” doesn't get a whole
29:21
lot of play. And so that would be that one I
29:23
would pick in the bar. And, you know, Anne Wilson
29:26
of Heart remade “Luna,” and she did an incredible
29:28
job with it with Warren Haynes from the Allman
29:30
Brothers and from Gov’t Mule playing slide
29:32
guitar on that. So if you get a chance, definitely
29:35
check that out. What do you think? I'm going
29:39
to give you the last word on this one, Brad,
29:41
this album. What do you think is the most important
29:43
thing for listeners to know about this debut
29:45
album by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers? Well,
29:48
I think the most important thing to learn about
29:51
it is that this was the first album. This was
29:54
the start of, you know, his, his writing and his
29:58
his, his creative process and his evolution. You
30:01
know, his evolution as a songwriter. This was
30:03
the first one. You can hear it as he goes through.
30:06
As he goes through phases of his life, those
30:09
phases of his life influence his songwriting.
30:12
And you can hear what he's going through as he's
30:15
listening to these other, as he progresses as
30:17
a writer. But I think the most important thing
30:20
to learn is the most important thing is just
30:22
to sit down, listen to all the tracks on the
30:25
album, listen to all the lyrics on the album.
30:28
Don't just. get distracted and do something else,
30:31
put your headphones on, close your eyes, and
30:34
actually just absorb all the different layerings
30:37
of the instrumentation, all the different vocals,
30:40
all the different, you know, all the different
30:41
lyrics and all the imagery that... this song
30:44
actually creates. Because that's one thing is
30:47
he's painting a picture with words, and you can
30:50
really see that picture when he sings those words.
30:53
And that's the best thing about Tom Petty. That's
30:55
his true art, and that's his true talent. Well
30:58
said, Brad. Well said. Well, thanks for your
31:00
time, man. I really appreciate it. Good to hear
31:02
from you again. We'll be in touch. All right.
31:04
Sounds good. And that's going to do it for our
31:12
discussion of the self-titled debut studio album,
31:16
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, which was released
31:19
on November 9th, 1976. My thanks to Brad Johs
31:24
for sharing his thoughts and insights on the
31:26
timeless music of Tom Petty. And to our listeners,
31:30
thanks for hangin’ out with me, Bob Edholm, and
31:32
my guest, Brad Johs. We hope you'll join us
31:35
for the next “deep dive” Dive episode of another Tom
31:38
Petty album on “Hanging Out with Bob,” wherever
31:41
you listen to your podcast. And until then, bye-eee!