Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 142: Rachel Lewis: "Why Can’t We Dream Bigger?" – Olympic Sacrifice, Identity, and Life After Sport

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142: Rachel Lewis: "Why Can’t We Dream Bigger?" – Olympic Sacrifice, Identity, and Life After Sport · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: As you reflect now, do you?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: You know why?
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Should you say it might have been something that grew gradually.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Did you have this determination?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: And indeed, where did you start to think you could get to?
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: As you're hitting 18, 19, hitting Loughborough, what did you start to dream of from a sporting perspective?
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: We were quite fortunate that quite early on in my Loughborough days we were going out to China to go to the World Student Games and then we got to see literally firsthand some I've had the best players in the world operate and paired with where the England juniors were starting to play in the Euros and just going like.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Actually it's the same skill set.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I've got a similar height.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're starting to look and break down some of the physicalities, then why can't we do this?
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Why can't we, you know, start to to're starting to look and break down some of the physicalities, then why can't we do this?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Why can't we, you know, start?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to dream a bit bigger than just playing domestically at home.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Rachel, welcome to the show.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: It is good to have you on here today.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you, ryan, lovely to be here.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Now it does seem a bit weird, but actually maybe I probably won't even use that intro and I'll use the intro as we're just chatting anyway.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: But it is for me actually quite fascinating to have you on because of sort of the space that you are in today and I think your journey from sort of elite athlete, from the Olympics and I guess the activities that happen around there, but that path for you to find where you are right now and then what's next, I think is interesting from two angles.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I think is interesting from two angles One, the process that you've gone through.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: But then, secondly, you know how you're helping individuals, athletes, sort of navigate life today as well.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, from my perspective it's been trials and tribulations, since leaving the sport, I suppose, and only recently have I been able to look back and reflect and see that maybe, yeah, what I say and what I try and give to others is not necessarily the path that I went through.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: So an exploratory not quite the right word, yeah, an exploratory journey through it all is definitely how I would describe it.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what I don't know if that's different to many in sport or outside of sport is that the exploration of it.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: It that sort of just finding it and suck and see and hope that it sticks.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I think in some way we all feel that and we all go through that.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: But I often think as an athlete it's often it's certainly more pronounced, often a little bit harsher, perhaps a little bit blunter in the way that it comes through.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: But, like you say, if you've followed an exploratory journey, that's probably already half the battle is being prepared to do that yeah, and I'm sure we'll get into it, but it's very, very different to how you approach being in the top of your sport.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: If none of that is exploratory.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: It's all mapped, it's all planned, it's explicit, it's time bound.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: You know for every stone that you unturn there's some form of benefit, and that's the the difficulty of when you step into this space.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely nothing like that.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, Almost no rules in many respects.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Well, so, Rachel, let's kick off with you.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Know what you're up to today.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: What is your role and sort of?
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Who do you impact?
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I work for a charitable foundation called the Jacobs Futura Foundation and it's basically an organisation of two halves.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: One is around sustainability and being able to protect the, protect the world's rainforests and sustain indigenous communities and really think about how that that impact on climate is affecting us.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: And then the other side, which I have the absolute pleasure to be able to lead on, is the athlete portfolio side, and that's around.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: How is it that those who have represented Great Britain and the UK at the moment at the very highest level so they've worn the T-shirt, they've sung a national anthem, they've stepped onto a pitch or a court?
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: they've gone to a pool or on a bike, and then we say that actually, their next chapter should be as fulfilling and as rewarding as their sporting career.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: And it's really one of those things where we say it's, the next chapter should be as as fulfilling and as rewarding as their sporting career.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: And it's.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: It's really one of those things where we say it's the next, it's the next chapter.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Actually it's.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: The life after sport is lesser.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: It should be as meaningful and as rewarding and fulfilling two bits that really stand out.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: You know one as you're ending on.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be lesser, meaning that you know their life after sport should be just as fulfilling and drive them in the same way that their sport did.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Did you choose those words?
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Are those words been chosen specifically about it not being lesser rather than it being greater or the same?
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I think it comes from personal experience.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: When you strive to do something and for the first for me 30 minus a few primary years, 25 years it is the absolute pinnacle that you are striving for.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: You move countries, you live in cultures that are different to yours.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: You sacrifice family commitments, the friendship groups.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Some people might actually alter appearance to be able to get to that physical peak.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: It's, for me, it's the.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Once you get to that, that that kind of high, what's then taking its place and how do you then deem it to be as rewarding and not lesser?
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Because for me, that, like when people say to me, oh, what's your greatest highlight?
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I will always say representing Great Britain at the Olympic Games there is nothing that as kind of as rewarding.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: However, if I take away that kind of tangible, shiny goal and I replace it with experience or I replace it with a different challenge, there are things I would say yeah, it might.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: It might not be the most like fulfilling thing being a parent or having and holding a career, but at the same time I have as as much enjoyment and it's not lesser.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's not going to get me onto a podium, but at the same time I take great comfort that it's giving me everything that I need to be the full rounded person.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see the way you use that.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: At least how that's articulated makes sense.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: There are different ways to be rewarded and for something to feel rewarding as well, and I guess that's sort of one of those key things for athletes is, when we come out of that limelight, as you step off that podium, the reward is different.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: And you I guess it's a question do you have to recognize reward differently?
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: when, like you say, you're a mother and a child will come and give you a hug, that's rewarding, that feels good, but it's very different to spiking a ball and and winning for your country absolutely, and I think for me the reward is wrapped up in the kind of the environment and the culture, the reward for me being able to turn around and see the other girls on the team, to be able to kind of go through the adversity, the highs and lows, and share that like, like it is from, and different sports have got different objectives and cultures and environments.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: It might be that you're an individual athlete but for me I've realized that one of my actual real true values is a sense of purpose and identity and value within a team.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: And you're right, the reward is no lesser when I go back into a family environment, and you're right, that person that embraces you at the end of the day and you still have that, that relationship.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: But I think I will always kind of find my fit in a and my little cog as part of the bigger picture and that reward for me is just different now yeah.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: So let's go back a bit.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: You talked, you spoke about 25 or so years of dedicating your life to sport, or at least sport being such a significant part and building things around it, and I guess that's something we'll go into.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: So what was sport like for you as you grew up?
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I had the pleasure of being kind of tall and athletic, I suppose, and I would turn my hand to things and be relatively successful of it, but I was a jack-of-all-trades.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I was definitely not a master of any, I would say, early on, and academic came if I worked hard at it, but when it was kind of either PE or going outside and playing and knocking a ball around, that's when I was at my true element and found myself at my happiest.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: So when I had an opportunity to choose my GCSEs at school, the first take was, like you know, sports studies, and I remember that kind of year, first term of that, the block of sports studies, and I was introduced to volleyball and had never played it at age 15.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: So at that point it was a case of trying something and I didn't.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't take to it necessarily, I didn't.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I had all the experiences from the football and basketball, athletics, et cetera, et cetera.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: But this was just fish out of water and I tell this to all the kind of children I go visit.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I was terrible.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: There was no immediate success, there was no like oh, this is for me and a wonderful, I can have this.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Amazing, you know, the next 20 year career, I can have this amazing, you know, the next 20-year career.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: But I also remember being kind of told like when you get to your different sports, you need to be quite good at this and go.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Don't just rely on school being the only environment.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Go and see if you can get to the local club and try your hand at it.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: So that's where the journey started.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: So when you say you were hopeless or maybe I've said you were hopeless, I don't know if you said that word, but you said you weren't, or maybe- I've said you were hopeless.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you said that word, but you said you weren't.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think I have.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: We'll stick with that.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So you're saying you were hopeless at volleyball?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: At the other sports did they come on naturally to you?
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: As you see more mainstream sports you deem to be what is success.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: You will see a striker get a ball into the back of a net.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: You will see a netball player put a ball through a net.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: You will see a sprinter get from a to b.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: So you recognize that you don't see volleyball on the television.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't really understand what the game looked like.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: So, therefore, for me to dig a ball to someone, for something to come off me, immediately react and rebound without having to carry as in like a netball, rugby, handball, I catch a carry, I hold on to it.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: This was an immediate rebound and it didn't go in the direction I wanted.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: It was quite painful, it stung my skin, there was, there was nothing that I could identify to success quite quickly and the other people around me didn't get it.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: So we didn't even have a rally.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: You know there was no structure in play or I'll set you up and you hit it.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: The first couple of weeks were like can I even get the balls going the direction I wanted?
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: exactly like my experiences of volleyball at school exactly, I mean right, you could have been the next Olympic volleyball player, because exactly where I started, I'm interested then what is it that made you keep going?
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, you were doing all these other sports and then you met this sport, where I guess it didn't feel you had no reference point.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: What is it that kept you going to play the sport?
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's when I went down to the local club and I saw other people that were as tall and could put their real attributes to good use.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: The nature and the kind of beauty of the game is it's so multifaceted.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: You're trying to keep the ball off the floor so you're diving everywhere you know with that real tenacity to keep in the defence mode and then you flip that as soon as that other person's got it up.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: You need to be in offence and the kind of the dynamic nature of how you can then set the offense up it's it's incredibly strategic and it suited my kind of curiosity around yeah, gameplay right.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: So it sounds like going to the club, being in that environment where you had people doing it, you saw what good looked like.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: That you started to get you know that pulled you in in some respects that made you want to keep playing the game yes, absolutely.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: And then, at the same time, really inspirational coaches who could give you, um, you know, clear instruction to be able to see, albeit at that time quite marginal progress, but, um, that kind of belief that don't worry, you've got that potential.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Let's just work on these foundations and then the kind of the gains will come.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: So I think some of the the other skills that I brought from the sports definitely enabled that slight patient mindset, um, but also the coaches were key.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So I mean 15, 16 to be introduced to a sport feels typically quite late.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: However, I'm not across then the pathway that you would take for a female volleyball player.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: You know I'm curious.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: It's anchored on the question at what point did you realize you were good at this sport and it could take you somewhere else?
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Where did that fit within the pathway?
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Those coaches had also kind of dropped the word professional in and at this point in the uk with obviously there'd been an influx of players who would have played in in other leagues across the world but, there was no professional league in the uk at the time.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: So they were saying, like, if you've got that ability and if you would like to play professionally, the european leagues are quite strong, so we would need to ensure that you get into the performance pathway.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: So at that point it would be could you get into the England juniors, would you have the talent to progress onto the England seniors?
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: And then ultimately, yeah, if there would be any other representative teams above that.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: So there was just that kind of I suppose the the carrot that was dangled to say like there isn't a ceiling here.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: The ceiling is much bigger.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: It albeit it's abroad, but there is the potential to do that if you choose to do so and are talented enough to do so.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, and so you made a choice, you know, to invest your time and effort in there, and if so, what did that look like?
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I had the fantastic, I think, pleasure of being able to be an athlete mentor that went into schools and share my story, and one of the pivotal points of my story is that when I left school so remember that was year 10 that I started and in year 11 we, we all wrote in the yearbook and it basically said like you know, what do you want to do in 10 years time?
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And everybody in the class, regardless of what their interest would may be in animals or in sport, in politics, you know history, arts we all wrote down in our yearbook what would be in 10 years time.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I had no idea that my mum kept the yearbook and I had no idea that, you know, back in the late 90s I would be writing in this in this yearbook, but something at that one point in time told me to write down in 10 years time, I want to be an Olympic volleyball player and happy.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: So at year 11, there was something in me, almost a time capsule, that would go I've cast the net, I've thrown it, I think I'm going to go and chase it, but I don't remember vividly having it as like the kind of the backdrop and the dream I just remember that I'm going to keep pursuing this for as long as I can because I'm really enjoying it and I don't know where it's going to take me.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: At that point the Olympics were not on the table, the UK had not gone into that whole bid round as to how to secure the Games.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, I don't know what it was, but I there was something in me that had kind of written something down and and I think subconsciously it was the, it was the northern star I was trying to follow and so what was the route to follow?
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: that north star, that north star, the market in the sky, that sort of fixed in place and we'd navigate towards it.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: How did you do that?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: so, um, I chose to to move my school, so my sixth form.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: It wasn't the college that I was meant to be going to.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I could go down to a different one in the city, sheffield, and then start training with the performance squad, which was, at that time, boys only.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: So I started to train with them much wow more and more frequently and more intense.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: So I was that's really big.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, you were the only girl going to do that.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: What were your parents thinking?
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Suddenly it's like whoa, hold on, where's this come from?
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: This is two year shift.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Come from almost nowhere yeah, and I think I think it's back to those coaches around like we see something here we need in order for her to accelerate that knowledge and the experience.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: We need to drop her in at the deep end and the the kind of the boys hit harder.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: They are much taller, they know.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: So it was a bit of a deep end, but they were incredibly supportive.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I had to do everything at the same time as my academics.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: So even though I changed my sixth form college, I still was pursuing my A-levels at the time.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I then was.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I was always going down the sporty route, but I wanted to make sure that Loughborough was a choice that I could go to, because that's where the women's performance program was, so any anybody who wanted to be able to get into that next step.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: So it was crucial that I could get my grades to go to Loughborough and the experiences at that time of kind of going and training with the boys and then, as I said, starting to find that I could take my armbands off and mix it allowed me to then get successfully go onto that England junior pathway.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it was a little bit, I would say, between 15 and 18.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: It was this incredibly accelerated journey, with highs and lows, of understanding what performance sports look like not only the athletes but the families that support those athletes, and the competitive nature.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: And you know sceptical views around where you're from and the credibility you have in the space.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: But at the same time the game was so enjoyable that I just decided to go all in.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I mean that's brilliant, isn't it?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: As you reflect now, do you, you know, whilst you say it might have been something that grew gradually, did you have this determination?
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: And indeed, where did you start to think you could get to?
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: As you're hitting 18, 19, hitting Loughborough, what did you start to dream of from a sporting perspective?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: We were quite fortunate that quite early on in my Loughborough days we were going out to China to go to the World Student Games and then we got to see literally firsthand some of the best players in the world operate, and paired with where the England juniors were starting to play in the Euros and just going like.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Actually it's the same skill set.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I've got a similar height.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're starting to look and break down some of the physicalities, then why can't we do this, why can't we you know to to dream a bit bigger than than just playing domestically at home?
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: So when I was in my second year of university I'd shared with my coach that I was looking to try and have a go at a professional career abroad.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: So in my end of my second year, going into my third, he introduced me to my first professional coaches and I started to go and have a look around how I could get myself into a trial.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Right, and where did you go?
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: My first opportunity was to go and play in the second division in France.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: It wasn't going to be.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I actually chose to go for when I left university, well, basically in April, by end of July I was out in Sweden.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: So I went to live in Sweden for my first year.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: And yeah, when you talk about elite first year, and yeah, when you talk about elite sport, but then when you talk about professional sport, I actually hold those two in two very different buckets and understand actually what it is to be paid to play.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I understand what it is to be in a business.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I understand what it is with regards to contracts and almost to be become a bit of a commodity.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Now I differentiate that between pursuing an elite career.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think you have those same mindsets in different environments.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: So when I was representing Great Britain and I was in an elite environment, I wasn't treated as I would be, as if I was playing pro in a club.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Talk to me more about that differentiation and how you see it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you why it's interesting for me.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Tonight I was having a conversation and we were debating how to define elite sport and we were describing it as well.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: There's no fixed way of describing elite sport.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: It can be well, you could be paid, but you could be full-time.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: You can be winning gold medals, you can be well losing in the fourth tier of english football and you would still be professional and elite.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: So what does it mean by that?
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like that's something you've reflected on, so I am truly curious about where you've got to.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I think it's around going back to that cultures.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Pete, I don't disagree with whatever you've said.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Like if I'm operating at the highest level, I might have a sponsor.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I might be funded by you know from the government or from UK Sport, if you're in the UK, or I might actually be self-funded.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: That doesn't take away from anything.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: You are still operating at the very top.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: When you walk in, for what I found when I was walking into professional contracts, they need a performance from me to suit their outcomes and actually it wasn't a case of like we hadn't all bought into that, we weren't all on the same page.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I hadn't designed that how I was kind of fitting in on my skill sets at that time and needed to use to be able to achieve an outcome.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I felt for me, particularly what we did at great britain and our team, it was around.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: If we are to be successful, everybody is lent in, everybody understands what we're trying to achieve and actually we've bought into the end game in in that professional environment.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: That's a season.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: It's a short season, you know they, they twist, they turn, but if I'm not at my best, like my pay is decreasing as a result of it or the teams are not getting their win bonus.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: My sponsor doesn't want to talk to me at the end of the day doesn't take away from the process I've done to play, doesn't take away from the great player that I am.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I've got to go away and have a look and reflect on that.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: But that kind of of, as I say, commodity aspect it's.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: It's different from like, okay, everyone's gonna have a good day and a bad day, but the actual, the reasons of why I'm trying to kind of get to the end don't differ, but how I'm treated and trying to do so for me varied massively I can understand that nuance, I can sort of hear it there.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: It's going to percolate my mind a bit, but it is certainly that environment and in some respects for me to simplify in my mind a bit it's for country or as an elite athlete, where you're receiving funding.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: It's not quite the same as when you're being paid by someone whose outcome are probably commercial in nature, and so the pressure is different, the way you are given versus receiving is perhaps different.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: And I also think, um and you might allude to this a little bit is in certain sports you basically have a one-year contract, which means you don't have that longevity, so you might be a professional that team volleyball, basketball, certainly in many of the Euroleagues you're there for a year and boom, that's it, and then afterwards, well, actually we don't know what's going to happen next.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think professional contracts can be very transient and I ended up going in professional in three different countries.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: So my first one was in Sweden.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I would go to France and play in what was called Pro B at that time, so the league beneath the very top, and then I would finish in Poland, again in the second league.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: So, it didn't deter me from my experience, but I also became hardened as to what to expect and I also became a little bit more savvy around how to go into it and what.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: For me, the professional contracts were mean to an end to be able to get to an Olympic Games.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: If I want to become better, I need to play against better.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: I need to be doing this day in, day out.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: So that was what that professional life could give me.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: So it was.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: It was absolutely crucial to my development.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: But if I look back and I think about, I suppose, some of the challenges that I faced, they are kind of the difficulties.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Would I have endured those if I knew that the end game wasn't possible?
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Or actually if it, for whatever reason let's just say the Olympics came off the table?
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not too sure I would.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I actually just want to say say well, what would make you sure you would?
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Um, but, but, but I suppose it's.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: It's that means.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: It's that means to an end in in many respects.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you look then at that, your path to the Olympics, was there an alternative?
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Did you feel you had an alternative path to get there?
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: no.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: So as a sport, we were funded initially because of the everyone for the london 2012, all of the kind of home teams were given a birth to attend and then, basically, three years out um, we well, two years out in reality we knew that there was a kind of a crux position where the sport, so great, britball, were unable to take all of the six different entities.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: So there's six different teams male and female, indoor, male and female on the beach, and then male and female for the parasitting discipline.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: So it was a case of we, for multiple reasons for not to get into today the female team the indoor female team that I was playing with we would lose our funding and therefore we would have to sell fun to get there.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: So it was a case of there weren't many choices on the table and we had to be really kind of purposeful as to how, how we could give ourselves the best chance to get there and what we needed to do individually to make that happen what was your path?
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: what so?
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: For you, it was being professional playing, earning so that you could fund your way.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: There is that right yeah, absolutely, and as did everybody else on the team.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: So if you were in the professional season, most of us or unless we were injured, or we were forever for whatever reason, we couldn't pick up a contract we were then out playing in europe or further afield and then, as soon as there was professional contracts finished, we would then all regroup.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: We would then come back, we'd find a central base and then we'd either start to travel and then play other teams on other continents or we would then basically, yeah, work on our team on what I would call the off-season.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so during that time I guess during the off-season and you're back in the UK, how did you fund that?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Did you was it through savings, or did you have to do part time jobs to make things work?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: All of the above.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: To be honest, our coach and our performance director was absolutely amazing.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: We were fundraising, so we were.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: We were sat on bikes.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: We're not cyclists I am now ironically but at the time we got on a bike in Sheffield and we rode all the way down to world's court to fundraise.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: So that going we start our kind of our path here where our performance arena will be is down here, and we thought that would generate.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: It brought great noise.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: It didn't bring a great deal of finances, it brought some really sore legs and sore bottoms we then we would actually, when others are kind of living in accommodation, provided, you know, near the English Institute of Spore, or actually they were housed in hotels we were staying in the local fire station, so we would then go into the mess, we would eat with the fire officers, because that was the only place that we could get large numbers of kind of food and accommodation.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: People would get picked up in buses.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: We got, you know, mini buses donated or we got squad cars so that we could all jump in and stay in our cars and get to and from training.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: It became incredibly resourceful and, as I said, our coach and kind of the team around us and our managers did an awesome job, a really great job.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: But when you look around, it's a bit of a cool runnings approach to it.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: It was unorthodox, it was incredibly sporadic.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: We were doing everything on a shoestring just to be able to get a credible performance at the Games, and I think a lot of people doubted that we would be able to do that.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: But that whole journey made us incredibly tight.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: It made us appreciate the sacrifice that we've gone through to be able to even get to a start line.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is an incredible story, and you talk there about that sacrifice that you had to do just to get to the Games, doing all of the above in terms of the options that are laid out.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: So, I guess, was it worth it?
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: What was the experience like at the Olympic Games?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: As I said to you, volleyball is a sport, a minority sport, in England and in the UK.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: People didn't expect anything from us.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: We'd always told ourselves that we were there or thereabouts with some of the teams that we'd be qualifying.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: We weren't ranked in as, yeah, we were 69th in the world going into olympic games and in theory it's the top, top 11.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: And then the 12th kind of birth is for that home team.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: So it's funny when I go into the scores and all the kids go so did you get the gold medal?
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: And you're like I've just told you, I'm 69th in the world no, no unfortunately I haven't brought my medal today.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: It was one of those.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: We, we, we were competitive, we were credible.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: We would go on to beat one of the the teams that qualified from the African nations.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: So Algeria came and we beat them in a really really long three, two set, kind of late into the middle of the night game, and at that point people were like, oh, oh, well, done, that's, that's really, that's really good.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: And it was that kind of moment of we knew it was winning, it was within our gift.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: We weren't, we weren't a million miles away from what was needed.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: We'd done amazing prep.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: We'd gone and played all the different styles from all the different continents.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: We'd got great training partners with people in Japan, so you know some of the best nations that we had played and trained alongside.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: But I think at that point, when we'd got the win, then people just started to kind of lift up and take a little bit more of a, I suppose, a curiosity around what our team was doing and that that win would get us from the bottom of.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: We didn't progress onto the quarterfinals.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: We got credible set scores.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: We went really within within two, within two points.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know much about volleyball, but you need two clear points to win, and we've got into the late 20s with Italy, so you know all of those things were in our kind of gift and then we would end up finishing in the joint ninth at the Olympic Games.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: So from our perspective it was incredible.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I can't surmise eloquently or kind of my range of vocabulary doesn't have what that, that experience gave me or gave our team, but I'd do it.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I'd do it all again tomorrow with the right training even more training now.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: But no, I get what you mean.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: It does sound like a wonderful experience and the effort that you, that you took to get, like you said, did bond you even more.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: And those performances from anyone who understands world rankings are amazing.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: From 16-9 to being one of those teams in the top 11 is fantastic and it's great that you then had a really positive experience and didn't finish 12th but stepped it up.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Essentially Curious.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Then going into the Games like you say, uk is a minority sport, so going into the Games, what thought had you considered to, given the funding situation?
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: What thought had you considered to what you will do after the Games?
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Isn't, hindsight, a wonderful tool I never gave any consideration to after the games.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I never did.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: There wasn't anything after that.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: It was the absolute pinnacle and therefore I hadn't given thought, although be it dual careers, trying to support ourselves, making sure the education was sound so that if anything would happen, you could fall back to it.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't have an exit route.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: We finished the games and the first thing we were trying to do was for European qualification.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: So as soon as that, I think we had a week off and then we flew straight back out to Switzerland and got back into another airport, sat in another Ryanair flight, got out again.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: It was so difficult at those times, as I now know, in the kind of ecosystem the sport reviews that happen after big quad kind of cycles, and who's going to get funding, and is it based purely on medals?
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Is it based on the pipeline and performance?
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Is it based on kind of financial, all those things that come into consideration, and I suppose when it was around kind of those Europeans that we looked back and went.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I just don't think this is sustainable.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Uk sport would choose not to fund, like GB volleyball going forward.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: So there was definitely no funding across the board.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: So the actual national governing body disbanded.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: So Great Britain Volleyball, gb Volleyball, didn't exist anymore.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: I was 30 at that time and I couldn't go back to playing for England because at that point, in order to be able to get funded or to support funded athletes, I was 30 at that time and I couldn't go back to playing for England because at that point, in order to be able to get funded or to support funded athletes, I was too old.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: So I had got over 50 caps for England, I had got 99 for Great Britain and I'd never seen me my time in the game being kind of terminated out of my control.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I always thought it would be.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I will choose to take my knee pads off, I'll choose to buy out, I'll choose the game, I'll choose the season, I'll make sure when that will happen and I just have this kind of really yeah, it's a sour taste, is too strong, but I don't have good memories of how our team had no purpose anymore and had no, no reason to exist and therefore we didn't exist.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: So that was the that remember.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I talked about the reward and the why I feel so kind of incredibly honored to be able to take part in the Olympic Games with that team.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: That team just disbanded and I can honestly say I have not seen some of those teammates since.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: And then, in addition to that, when I couldn't then pull on a shirt or pursue that performance environment which was so important to me, yeah, I could go back and find another pro contract, but, as I said to you, it was a driver to be able to achieve something else.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: It didn't give me the purpose to just kind of keep going another country going to kind of just put myself out of my comfort zone.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I needed that at home kind of draw to kind of go.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: This is for a bigger purpose because, as I said, some of those contracts weren't that enjoyable.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: So it I didn't.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I didn't give it thought, ryan, and I suppose, yeah, looking back now it probably wasn't.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't advise anyone to do that same mindset.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: I think I was very, very reactive.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I knew I was leaving the sport with quite a lot of personal debt and I needed to find employment quite quickly.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I knew volleyball really well, I got coaching qualifications and I'd seen what the national governing body of Volleyball England was doing.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: My boyfriend at the time was in and around sports so he knew the opportunity was coming.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: So I think it was around the finished yeah, finished August and by October I'd managed to secure a position with England Volleyball as a relationship manager and that, basically, was the absolute far extreme to elite sport.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: It was around how do we engage?
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: It was basically sports development how do we engage those who don't know what volleyball is in the uk to be able to start playing the game?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: How do we get more schools engaged?
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: How do we get people who have played and put it down to come back to volleyball?
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And I think I I use the analogy now of putting on this amazing cape, and I put this cape on that just literally I was there and present, but I didn't need to share anything that I'd done.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I didn't need to.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: That didn't give me the edge to kind of share me, gave me some wonderful transferable skills.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: But actually I went back into a national governing body.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I managed to kind of start earning a wage.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: I started to learn about the networks that were maybe outside of volleyball that allowed me to kind of go earning a wage.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I started to learn about the networks that were maybe outside of volleyball, that allowed me to kind of go into more business environments.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: But I went back to exactly what I knew with volleyball.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't diversify in that regard.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: So, during that period, what was the most challenging moment for you?
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: As an athlete.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: There was five relationship managers and, as an athlete, I needed to be upskilled with all their experiences pretty quickly, because from a, you know how do we pull together the business plan.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Now you've got a delivery model that you need to do.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: How are you going to manage the budget, these events?
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: And I was a bit like I knew I could do it but I didn't know, I didn't really know how to.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: And then trying to I have this, the phrase, and I know it gets spanned around a lot but the imposter syndrome, to kind of go.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I'm stood here at start line with you because I've been recruited on merits but I don't have your experiences.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I don't have your, your wealth of kind of knowledge from different organizations that you've come with.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: I've come with an elite player background and it's not quite relevant right now.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: I need to kind of understand where I can add value so that I'm successful so, so, recognising yourself that you had these gaps, so yes, you'd got there.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: On merit, it's a different type of merit.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: How did you go about closing those gaps?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I think I've always had quite a hard.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Hard work brings reward, and I did.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I basically immersed myself in into the role, made sure that I got to grips with it and then, if I hadn't really got an understanding of what I need to do, I've never been one to to sit and not ask questions.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I was probably known as asking too many questions, so just took it around going if I don't know, I need to, I need to know, and the best thing for me to do that is to be able to kind of put my hand up and ask.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: So it was around hard work and a curiosity.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: I think now it's banded as a growth mindset.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: But I think, in order to be able to, I did something with volleyball that nobody in my family had done, nobody in the UK had done, no one had gone to Olympic Games and represented Great Britain.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: So I knew that there was something in beside of me that went like you're not just going to over here, you're not going to walk away and be defeatist, but at the same time you're going to have to share that some of this is not in your wheelhouse.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: You can't just go to your default.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: You're going to have to put your hand up and ask around like, well, how do I do that?
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Or you've done your business plan and can you just show me some of those kind of pointers that give me a great sense of where to start from, and I'm happy to then potentially fail, but at least I've got the ingredients that allow me to try and make it successful.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: And so you talk about that hard work and curiosity to make it happen right to get yourself there.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I'm interested because you mentioned you were wearing a cape.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: You wore this cape there.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: I'm interested because you mentioned you were wearing a cape.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: You wore this cape, and I just want to make sure I understand the meaning of the cape, because what I took from that was it's like it was a shield, like people couldn't see past that cape.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: They couldn't see the real you.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Am I getting the right sense?
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: And if so, how did it serve you?
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: the right sense?
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And, if so, how did it serve you?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: I think for a long time I couldn't, and there was no need, no need for people to see what I had achieved.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: I wasn't relatable, it didn't give credibility, it didn't bring me into a circle that was like, oh wow.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: You know, you can speak from experience, because this was very, very different, but at the same time, I didn't want them to either.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: You know, from my perspective, I almost compartmentalized.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: That was previous, this is now.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: It's a new start, it's a new chapter and I don't think um, I don't think it.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Probably there was a balance to be had and I probably went to the far extreme of the cape analogy it's.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: It's at different times I gave different strengths.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: It's only now that I've come back into this role.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I don't have to ashamed is the wrong word, but I don't have to be I don't have to hide another aspect of me.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: I come back as a whole because I can, regardless of who, the organizations I talk to or the institutions, I come with a lived experience.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I come with that, you know, with that, with that knowledge or the insight, or the institutions.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I come with a lived experience.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: I come with that, you know, with that knowledge or the insight or the passion to be able to want to make a difference, and I just feel so more balanced.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right, and I guess that's the bit that I was hearing was you weren't going with your whole self and whilst you may not at least you might not articulate it as being either ashamed or wanting to hide it you weren't able to be you.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: You know all of you and given that experience, whilst you know I suppose as you look back now it's obviously it's different, but it still would have been relevant your lived experience would have been relevant at that time, certainly because of you can see that from who you are today but at that time it would have still been relevant.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Do you look back and think, oh, regret in a positive way is learning from those mistakes.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I don't mean it impacts you now negatively, but do you look back at and say, yeah, okay, yeah, that's regret.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I could have been even better, I could have learned even more from it?
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting question because I think when we really look around, transition athletes and I try now I'm back in the general society and not in that elite environment Loads of people go through transition in different ways.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: And it was only really when I spoke to Lola and she said, rachel, who do you want to be known as?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And I said, rachel, who do you want to be known as?
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: And I said, oh gosh, that's a great question.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: If you only want to look at me as an athlete, I'm definitely Rachel Laybourne, because do you know what?
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: That's what my player was, that's my athlete identity.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: And I'm married and I'm Rachel Lewis now and my business card says Rachel Lewis, that person that I related to as a player just doesn't exist anymore.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: And how different people transition and what they hold on to as a female or as a male, when you don't or you accept somebody else's name, you know, with regards to you, change that identity.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: You don't keep on going in and saying, oh, by the way, in this environment I'm this and in this environment I'm that, you take a leap of faith and, of course, sometimes it suits you, sometimes it doesn't.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you kind of sit on that kind of compass of you know my values and my morals.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Um, I think it's a great question you pose.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Don't regret so if I give you the example I was signed.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: I was actually sat inside the circles in one of the integrated care systems in Essex.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: So I'd left the role at Volleyball England.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I'd gone into an active partnership so government give money, so Sport England give money to active partnerships to be able to go and help people locally become more physically active.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: And I'd found myself in kind of a really really wider circle that I couldn't quite grasp.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: And someone has said, oh, but yeah, but Rachel, am I right in that you went to the Olympics once and the room had drawn?
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, you're right, I did many moons ago, so different to where I am now, but I do have an experience.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: And they're like why didn't you say, and I was like, because that doesn't help the person that can't identify with physical activity to become active, that person who wants to see I'm a parent that's downscaled my physical activity and now can't work out where to fit it in or how my kind of love of it and hate of it at the same time, and actually my body composition has changed that's more relatable to that family or to that person, that person of her I could train for six hours a day.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I was monitoring, you know, from a nutrition perspective.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I'd spent three hours a day in the gym and I I'd been working with a psych around.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: My mental toughness is so far removed that.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Can you really tell me that that adds value?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: No, I would have become more ostracized.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Certain environments, absolutely Absolutely.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I think I could have brought more of my authentic self, but just in certain environments I think I probably I gained more by wearing the cape.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, I guess it's an interesting way of the description of it and, as I break it down, it's very much.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: You can still bring that and I'll use authentic, as cheesy as it sounds at the moment, but, but you can bring that authentic, your authentic self, but the way in which you communicate, that is different.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: And so you know, because for me, I'm perhaps fixated on this cape and I'm like, well, you can come along, you just don't tell everybody.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: So I understand what you mean in that I, after my football, went into banking and I could be chatting to somebody in Mexico about mortgage lending at HSBC.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: It didn't matter that I was being a professional football player.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: That didn't necessarily come into the conversation.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: When we're working out pricing, we may go watch a football game afterwards, but you know that wasn't necessarily the focal point of the conversation.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: So that I can understand.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's the actually it's the proactive nature of hiding that sporting identity.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: That's the bit where I'm like, ah, okay, you were kind of hiding it rather than I don't need to disclose it, whereas now you talk about, okay, I can choose not to talk about it because it's not going to help that person with what I'm wanting to do.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's probably fair.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: I don't need to point to anybody's face that I've been an elite volleyball player, because it's just, you know, it's not relevant and it's not going to help, versus do you know what?
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: If there's a curiosity to explore it, yeah, I'm more than happy to go back to it.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I will not be imagining you walking in with a volleyball and spiking it in somebody's face.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: That would be just a bit too.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: It's like sorry, rachel, it's cool, it's cool.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: You know, I know we're talking very much on that transition moment and that that shift, and I'm interested then to understand the path that you've taken on your career today.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: So, from those moments, how did you?
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: You know these are big steps, but how did you make the steps from there to where you are today?
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so from working with Volleyball England back to going into kind of a national governing body mode, unfortunately made redundant.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: So, understanding, value, self-purpose, going back again, almost like transition.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I need to find something else.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: It didn't, unfortunately, land at the best time because I'd just found out I was pregnant with my first child.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: So then it just came into free fall of going well, how do I make myself sustainable, how do I kind of go into a material period of maternity, trying to understand how I can take a wage?
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, trying to just navigate.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: There was, there was some good choices, there was some.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I learned from all of them.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's ever been a bad experience.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I went to be, I went to consult, so, um, in the arena in Stadia land that didn't quite work for my family commitments.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I then was able, as I said, to get back into an active partnership.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: They hosted me when I was with Volleyball England, so they knew of me, but they went through a restructure.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I would stay with them for nearly, yeah, well over five years, well over five years, and then trying to grow as an individual, grow my network around.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: I'm in the sport in kind of infrastructure type world, but at the same time, there's much more out there, so it's just mindful of opportunities.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: So when this startup organization came around with a philanthropic donor who wanted to make a massive impact around how athletes are treated, after that kind of light's been turned off, if the crowds have gone home, what is it and where are they?
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: And what are they pursuing for their next, their next chapter or their next kind of venture in life, I was like, wow, this just it feels like too good to be true and was really skeptical when I saw the job advert to say, well, why are they in this space?
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: What do they need like?
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: What's the, what are they trying to give and what are they trying to take?
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: What's the transaction?
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: So came with a very kind of prepared thoroughly for the interview but at the same time was a little bit skeptical myself.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: And then, as I got to understand the organization, as I met the CEO, as I met the philanthropic donor, I was absolutely blown away that this role even existed and I see it as a fantastic opportunity to ensure that.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: I see the complex kind of ecosystem that we have right now around.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Any athlete who's represented Great Britain or performed in elite professional sports needs to be able to be picked up and to have an opportunity to really understand where to go to next.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: And I think at the moment that landscape is quite fractured.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: It's it's very different for different sports, it's different for different aspects of that sport.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: So, whether you're funded or not, it's not consistent.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: And I think when we talk around lack of identity or a change in identity, we talk about mental health.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: We talk about financial.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: When we talk around lack of identity or a change in identity, we talk about mental health.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: We talk about financial struggles.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: We talk around people not actually planning for their own exit out of sports.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: It's not really changed a vast amount since when I left 10 years ago.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: That there's, there's 10 years worth of athletes out there that are still struggling or finding difficulty with any kind of those concepts to understand that they are amazing individuals that sacrificed so much, regardless of whether it's pursuit of their own kind of bloody mindedness and self-sacrifice or whether they were part of something like I was around, something so special that they they should have someone, someone somewhere should be like just checking in and seeing that they, that they are doing well or that they've been given all these amazing tools for them to be able to understand.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, I had that little bit of a handheld, but now I've got all the means to be able to make some really fabulous choices and go and be curious around what I want to do next, because there are there are some really great success stories.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: There are some people who've used platforms that have been enterprising, that have gone on to do great things.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: But I'm also mindful of when I look around my own transition out, when I look at remember, we're part of teams.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: So when you look around what your teammates done and you look around what maybe kind of five years on, 10 years on, what we're all doing and how we've always all coped, we are so vastly different and I think I just don't think we were given the support that we were needed.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure I'm very sure people even support today, regardless of what sport you're in, don't get the support that they're needed.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: So me now, as a day job, regardless of a cape or not, I have a fantastic opportunity to turn that dial to make things better, and that's my personal, my personal passion is when I leave this shirt that I'm in right now.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I've left it in a better place so that more people get more help that they need.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I love the passion that comes through as you describe where you are now, what you're doing, who you're impacting, and I'm fully with you in that there is this gap in athlete care in the, and what I mean by that is and you know, I was speaking to another gentleman and what he described is I didn't have the support, or at least if it was there, I didn't know it was there, I didn't know how to access it, and that, for me, is well the key reason why we're talking.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: It's get.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: It's an avenue for these stories to come out, to try and reach athletes who might not want to go to their governing body directly, might not want to go places, so it's great for them to come somewhere like this and hear a story, hear your story about how you've come full circle or coming back around and being able to be your authentic self, but letting people know there are different avenues to get the right support.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: And so I think, obviously I think what you're doing is awesome and definitely targeting the right area, and it's great to see that you're loving it, it's great to see you find that you are thriving there and bringing all of you to it thank you.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely as I said, I pinched myself.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I pinched myself that the opportunity exists.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: I'm incredibly thankful I never take any of it for granted the fact that we are able to fund some of the organizations in the actual ecosystem that can help athletes.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: And when you hear the stories of the athletes to say you know that mental health support that I got was pivotal, to be able to kind of understand me a little bit better so I can make better decisions, or like I just needed whatever those skill sets are that I'm missing.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: It's just it's it's so rewarding to hear that athletes are taking benefits, so I'm making great strides with that, with that help so, rachel, thinking about yourself as an athlete coming into this role that you are now, what have you had to leave behind or switch off from being an athlete to help you do this role a bit better?
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: it's such a good.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I'm literally coming up to my year anniversary and there's loads of things that I've learned.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I do come as my true, authentic self, but I am quite, I'm quite loud, I'm quite, I'm really passionate about some things and that doesn't mean that everybody else is.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: I think, like I really want to lean into making it a place where we all want to work and I want to and I'm don't get me wrong, I'm not getting any resistance.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: But at the same time I think, where I assume other people are, they're not, and I have to be really mindful.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: The way that I work is true to me and I'm and I don't be, I'm not remiss to know that that's not a factor for any employment.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: But we're a small team, we are literally set we just recently gone from seven to nine and the way that we work and how to go about kind of understanding, trust, respect and making sure making great decisions, I've had to kind of maybe just tone down me a little bit, maybe kind of be a bit more considered maybe, and that comes, and of course that comes with the element of the role.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: It's a lead role, so I can't just air all my, you know, insecurities, which maybe I would have done in a lesser role.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I do think that there's a balance to be made, but at the same time I have a fantastic fit here.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: But I do.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: I have a considered approach.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: It's not all the time, not all all the time.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is, it's good, it's good to hear, it is very interesting when we think about what made us great as athletes.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny, as I asked this question, so often the bit that comes probably and I'm thinking about it now and I'm going to have to look again or look back at these when I ask this question but so often it is toning down or reducing or doing something in a way around the eagerness, the activity, the wanting to get everyone together, that, hey, one team, one dream, come on, let's go, do or die.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: And it's like, well, some of the teams probably, you know they like the job, but you know it's not like that.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay, we're not necessarily that sort of team, but it is, you know, it's consistent when you're in that team, you all have that commonality.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: There's something that connects you.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: It is it's long, the longevity.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: You don't question that, and I think when you go into a new team you have to work hard on what that common purpose is.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: We're working on that inside of work and we're working on that outside of work yes, definitely that's good.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: So look, when you think of athletes who are in their transition or in fact there may be pre-transition out of sport, based on your experience, what guidance do you give to those individuals on how to perhaps best set themselves up for success?
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of parts.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Every, every elite athlete will retire, so you can't run from that, you can't hide from that.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: There'll always be people that disappear, like when you do your exams Super, super, super geeky people that just get down and hanker down like weeks away.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: I was a person that did the night before but at the same time it's the nature of it is it's going to happen.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: So I would recommend the prep, the curious mindset, to kind of go, go and try and have a think around what that either a dual, dual career or transition career that takes you out might look like.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Because even if you go and try something you don't know, it's amazing to have things that you can keep outside of your options so that you don't think you have to take the first thing that came.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: My reflection is I went.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: I went back into a sport that was comfortable to me.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: It was I knew of the people.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: I was almost kind of too comfortable, even though the skill sets were vastly different.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: It was going back into a sport that I knew and I didn't give myself time because of the financial burden.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: It was a need to get employment.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: It was almost like a knee-jerk opportunity, if you can and you're fortunate.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: I would just give you a real great sense of time to reflect.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Elite sport gives you so much and when it's taken away, you almost go into free fall and become incredibly reactive.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: And if you can just build the time in to then give yourself the ability to look up and to look wider than the immediate now, to understand yourself, to understand what great looks like in a slightly different context, you've given yourself that kind of permission, I think, to to get yourself grounded and go again.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Mine was just a bit quick.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: There was lots of things that played into that.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: There's multiple, multiple wicked issues.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: There's not really.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: There's things that kind of played into it, that kind of yeah, forced my hand, but I think, if, if I was to speak to the athletes in the pathway today, prepare well, even if you're prepared, it might not go to plan.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: So, building the time so that you can make the changes as and when you need them and don't be afraid to ask for help, and regardless of whether you think where or what you think you need, even if it's financial, if it's mental, if it's professional you know how do I create a LinkedIn account?
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: No one's going to.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: No one's going to think any less of you at that time, but it will.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: It will accelerate that learning rather than kind of dwelling in a, you know, a helplessness state of going I don't even know.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: I don't even know which way up is, because it just seems all too big.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to eat an elephant in one go.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: You know, rather than be that kind of, by the end of today I just need to have made a great phone call and by the end of that you know the next day, like, how do you make it more, more approachable, so that it's not overwhelming?
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: rachel, that's brilliant.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: And look, I just want to say thanks for sharing your story, your perspective today.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed our conversation and look, there are those people are going to be listening, who are going to want to get in touch.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: I'll follow you, we'll put some of your information in the show notes but, um, you know, I'll ask you now, everyone who's listening, where's the best place to find you?
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: yeah, my profile is on LinkedIn.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: It's linked to the organization, so the Jacob Sertura Foundation.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I've also got my Twitter handles and I'd like to say Instagram is absolutely true.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there, just don't use it.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, twitter or LinkedIn is probably better.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Brilliant Look, Rachel.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Thanks again, Really enjoyed our conversation and learning more about you and look forward to continue our conversations absolutely, ryan.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you ever so much for having me.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: It was incredible that you could tease out the relevant information and I felt incredibly comfortable, so thank you wonderful.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the second win podcast.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: That's all from me.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Take it easy Until next time.