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Governance in the Age of AI: Leading with Judgment, Accountability, and Speed · Fractional Frequency

• riverside copy of ted horton billard full episode erin todus's studio: Today we are joined by Ted Horton Billard, an attorney, advisor, author, and entrepreneur with more than four decades of experience navigating leadership, law, governance, risk, and business growth. Ted's career has taken him to many environments, including the Marine Corps, various arenas in the private sector, and on journeys to entrepreneurship. Ted is also the author of Beyond the Business Plan: Building Companies That Move at the Speed of AI. Where he explores what it takes to build and lead companies in an environment being fundamentally reshaped by artificial intelligence. In this episode, we'll explore Ted's unconventional career journey, what military service has taught him about leadership and accountability, and why governance is becoming increasingly important as organizations adopt AI and make decisions at an unprecedented pace. So without further ado, welcome Ted. Hello, Aaron. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. I'm so excited to dive into this conversation and pick your brain a little bit. So let's get right to it. I mentioned and learned in the discovery that you started your career in the Marine Corps. so so to get started, tell us a little bit about how your military experience has shaped the way that you've approached your career. Well, I'd have to say that before going into the military, I was rather undisciplined. I was a wild college student. Who had difficulty with boundaries. And so getting into the Marine Corps gave me, perhaps most importantly, some personal discipline. It also helped me to start understanding things like leadership, planning, strategy, and being able to adapt if you've come up with a plan and it somehow doesn't turn out the way you expect it, which often happens in military operations. How you're able to adapt, overcome and move forward with an alternate plan in order to ultimately achieve your objective. Mm-hmm. I've tried to apply those principles to my work life ever since. There's probably no better training ground for anticipating what might happen next and and keeping an eye open for what is possible in in a world where really anything is. And so just to expand on that a little bit, you've you've worked in a variety of industry sectors, you've led across a variety of industry sectors. What experiences have most shaped your philosophy on leadership? Well, I'd have to say that it would have to be that leadership isn't something that is unique to one particular industry. The principles of good leadership apply across the board in all industries. And those principles focus on trying to look after the welfare of your people, trying to accomplish the mission that you've set out to accomplish and to try to do it in the most ethical and and effective way and efficient way that you can. And so it would be those principles that pretty much apply in every industry that that I've operated in over the years. Mm-hmm. Which of those principles do you think is most important if you had to choose one? Well I'd have to say integrity. I'd have to say personal integrity. If if people can't trust you, if people can't believe what you're telling them, you're never gonna go very far in business. requires that you operate in an ethical and an honest way. And though although there are some people that might make profit by operating in less than honest ways, that that's a short lived success. It eventually always comes back to haunt them. And so if you're going to have a sustainable business, I would have to say that integrity would certainly have to be at the top of the list in terms of principles regarding the way you choose to lead or lead your business. Would you say that that's a value that was ingrained during your military experience or even before that? Well I'd have to say before that, I grew up in a fairly disciplined environment. My dad was a master sergeant in the Marine Corps. And so growing up as a kid, I couldn't go out to play unless I stood inspection in my bedroom and he would take a quarter and throw it on the rack and if it didn't bounce three times, I didn't get to go out and play. So I I learned early on, you know, what what discipline was. But, you know, of course, like every kid, as you get older you you start start to become rebellious and try to push the limits and and so, you know, I went through those years, but eventually I came back down to earth and certainly the Marine Corps would I attribute that to to having helped me do that. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's important to make your bed. I think that it's the the best way to start the day. It's a lot of folks hearing about your your dad feeling that I believe. Still make my bed every day. Yeah, it's a good way to just get your mind right. I agree. And so you have you've built businesses in in in recent years. And so was there a particular point where you realized you wanted to build businesses rather than simply lead without within them? Well I grew up at a time where you were conditioned to believe that if you worked for the same company for thirty years, you got a nice retirement and a gold watch and you were set for life. that world ended for me midway through my career. the world changed completely and those retirements all of a sudden started to evaporate. That loyalty that businesses had for their employees started to change. And so for me, I was mid-career at the point when I got laid off and I found myself at a crossroads. As a lawyer, i i you know, in my mid fifties at that point, I didn't have a book of business. I didn't have a bunch of clients that I could bring to a law firm. because I had so much experience at that point. I was expensive and a lot of law firms didn't want to spend the money to hire me. And so I I found myself struggling with, you know, what to do next. And it was at that point that a friend of mine from college connected with me and suggested we start a business together. And that's what we ended up doing. We started a business in Colorado together. It was a telecommunications company and we did very, very well. the first couple of months. We made three quarters of a million dollars as a startup in the first three months of doing business. Wow. And then we were in bankruptcy within a year after my partner got addicted to crack and we lost everything. So it was goodness Yeah, it was like an e-ticket ride at Disneyland. it was it was quite a wild ride and and there I was, way up and then way down and at one point on homeless living on on my ex wife's couch. And I get a phone call from a friend of mine. This is a guy with whom I'd served on the State Bar of California's Judicial Commission, evaluation commission. We were tasked as commissioners with evaluating candidates the governor was recommending for a judicial appointment and telling the governor whether or not we thought they were qu the state bar thought they were qualified for appointment. He calls me out of the blue and he says, What are you doing? And I said, Well, I'm, living on my ex wife's couch. I'm homeless. I don't have a job. What are you doing? Said, Well, I need somebody to run my law firm for me. And he goes, I know you and know that you have the the management skills to do that. And so I moved to Beverly Hills and I became the managing partner for a national tax practice, even though I didn't knew nothing about taxes. And while I was there, we we were able to grow the firm into thirteen remote offices around the country and did very, very well. It was a very, very good venture for all of us. I left the firm though after a few years and started my own consulting firm. And after I started consulting, then all kinds of opportunities started to come to me about starting other businesses and whatnot. And so you know, I've started other businesses. In fact, I started a digital marketing agency that's still doing quite well. so if that's not a lesson in entrepreneurship can be born out of the most seemingly dire of situations. I don't know what is. I don't know what is. It just life throws you some curve balls and you know, you just have to be able to try to hit out of the park as best you can. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, I'm gonna I've got a couple of questions I'd love to pick your brain around the the concepts of governance and and the world that we live in today. So I'm gonna turn the corner on that a little bit. we talked a lot about governance earlier. And I think that for a lot of founders, early stage startups, that can sound like a very enterprise like term. and maybe there's some sort of reaction to that. But you position governance as critical for any business. What do you think that what do you think good governance looks like for a small growing company? Well, obviously the type of governance and the how Deep the governance is going to depend on the size of the business. But even for startups, governance involves things like the single owner or founder decision making model. At some point, as the business continues to grow, more often than not, the person that started that business is no longer the person best suited to continue to run that business. Because they started the business. they've got the skills necessary to run a mom and pop shop. But as that business evolves, we start bringing on, you know, layers of management and additional employees and additional responsibilities, that same founder may not and likely does not have the skills needed in order to continue to operate the business successfully. So that would be an example where governance starts to take effect now. When the decisions that the founder is being asked to deal with start to overwhelm the the founder. You you start trying to micromanage the business, but the business is getting too big for you. So that would be that would be a classic example of of where where governance comes in. Obviously things that that might impact governance, it would depend perhaps on the industry in which you're you're operating. If you're a restaurant, you've also got to think about things like regulatory compliance. And whether or not your organization is set up to make sure that you're in compliance at all times. you know, so that would be another example of where governance comes into play, even for a small little restaurant. Mm-hmm. What are some of the biggest governance mistakes that you see organizations or leaders make as they're growing and scaling? Well, I I mentioned the first one. It founders that tend to stay on too long and try to micromanage the business. At that point, they start becoming overwhelmed, they start missing things, and then mistakes start happening. And it's those mistakes that end up being, you know, critical to the business's success. So that would probably if I had to if I had to pick one thing I see most frequently in growing businesses is the owner staying on too long as as the a as the as the decision maker and not you know bringing on help. and and getting the support that they need as the business continues to grow. They they tend to want to, save money. Nobody can make this decision better than me because nobody knows the company better than me. You know, that kind of stuff. And and that ends up creating some critical mistakes. But there are other governance issues too. I mean, you know, obviously, Aaron, as I understand you come from an HR background, I mean, you must know all kinds of examples of of governance involving just management of employees and And how how you how you manage your employees in a in a way that is both ethical and legal and and and looks after their their welfare and b best interests. So that's another example of governance. Yeah. Yeah, and and a fine line between philosophy of an organization, philosophy of individuals, and how those two things converge in that context. that's and that and that and you know that then ends up evolving into what we call culture. The culture of the business. And that as that evolves, it can sometimes impact your ability to later add governance after the fact. That's why, you know, as you build the organization, should be building it with the governance already in place rather than waiting till things get out of hand and then trying to add governance later. you're gonna you're gonna find that if you if you wait till there's been a a problem And you say to yourself, my goodness, we now we need to, start putting in some kind of controls or some kind of way to manage this risk. Chances are, it's gonna be too little, too late. and so it's really important to to, as you're building the organization, to build that governance into it as it grows. When I think about structure, I think about process, repeatability, checks and balances, accountability. I think all of those topics converge under that umbrella. And as I think about where I've seen resistance to those types of things from leaders in the past, a lot of the resistance comes from a place of, well, it's gonna slow us down, that those things are are gonna get in the way of our velocity and growing the company or in driving revenue. What would you say to a leader or founder who is worried about that? This is an issue that a lawyer deals with all the time. If you're a business attorney and you're working with a business client, they always wanna jump ahead. they're driven by, the the the needs of the business. And, you know, you know, the business is growing. We gotta make fast decisions. We gotta grow, grow, grow. It affects our profitability, our competitors are gaining a bigger market share. All these issues are going through their head. But the issues that as a lawyer I bring to the table are okay, well, that's all well and good. But as we continue to to grow this organization, the the risks that the organization is going to encounter are changing and growing as well. And some of those risks, if they if they are triggered and they happen at scale, can end up putting you out of business in a heartbeat. and so it's really important that there is somebody that can talk to the the business person and and get them to slow down and recognize, you know, take a breath, you know, we're not ready to do this yet. We've got to do this, this, and this, and make sure everything is in place before we make this move. Otherwise this could happen. And and un unfortunately, all too often in businesses, especially where people are looking to achieve bonuses and whatnot, they're all driven by the profit motive. And there's that voice of reason isn't necessarily very loud, if at all. Okay. And so that that would be an example of, you know, where I as a lawyer come in, perhaps as a fractional general counsel and say, Okay, well, we need to put the brakes on here because this is what you know what is going to happen if we don't. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So so helping them to sort of visualize what could what's the worst case scenario and and how real is that? Because And most business people don't want to think that way. They tend to be eternal optimists. The business is going to do great. I'm going to make millions. And and and that's all they see. And you know, and some of them, a lot of them are visionaries. They're, you know, their their their heads are in the clouds. And when it comes to operational details, they don't want to be bothered. They that you know that I I I'm a salesperson. I'm a visionary. I I I see the future. Well, that's good, but we we really need to deal with the pres so that's a challenge that I deal with often as a consultant. especially if I'm brought in as a fractional general counsel. Yeah. No, I I bet. And and in your position it's your job to help them see around corners, even if they maybe don't want to. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. So sometimes you have to have the tough conversation. It can be sometimes very difficult because business owners sometimes don't want to hear. Yeah. Yeah, I bet. I bet. Well, it wouldn't be a a podcast in twenty twenty six if we didn't talk at all about AI. And so I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions on your perspective there. So I think you there's just There's this race in the business community to adopt AI really as quickly as possible in many environments. And we're seeing leaders lean in into the adoption in any capacity that they think will drive productivity or revenue or efficiency. What do you think leaders or organizations might be overlooking from a risk perspective as they rush to implement AI? Okay. Well, there are several risks that they're overlooking, but let's talk about The decision whether or not to implement AI in the first place. Okay. Because I think that's the most important process that any business owner nowadays can go through. And that is if you are going to adopt AI, what are you adopting it for? Okay. What what what are you intending to use it for? And how is it going to improve your business? I heard a very disturbing statistic not too long ago that over the last 18 months or so. That ninety-five of the companies that went ahead and started to implement AI did not show a positive return on investment from that AI. And that's because they're they're buying the hype. There's a lot of hype out there, all kinds of vendors making all kinds of promises about artificial intelligence and what they it can do and what, you can can purchase and have available within your organization. And some organizations end up buying, you know, various AI tools and hoping that they can somehow get the tools to work together. So it's this patchwork approach. Most organizations that adopt AI though make the mistake of not ensuring that they have clean data before they bring AI in. And that that's a huge problem because it the old saying crap in, crap out, is is very true here. You need to make sure before you bring AI in that you do a few things. One is clean your data. Understand, you know, do you have the rights to the information that you have? If so, you know, is that information accurate? Is that information biased? You know, there's a case that I talk about in in the book about how a company went ahead and used an AI product to help screen applicants for jobs. And again, Aaron, because you're in the HR world, I'm sure you might have even heard about this incident, where the AI was using data that was biased. And so they were summarily ignoring women's resumes because all AI had seen during its training were men's resumes. So that's an example of where, you know, if you're not paying attention to what data the the AI tool has access to. you can end up creating biases inadvertently. And then of course there's there's the the the drift too. You might implement AI and it's working fine. And then a couple of weeks later, because of data that it's receiving, that AI drifts, that model drifts from the output that you originally intended into something very different because it's now getting input that's suggesting maybe a different output. So those are going to be examples of things leaders need to think about before they even implement the AI. Okay. Then once they are ready to implement the AI, they need to map out the workflow. Okay. They need to understand how AI is going to actually augment the workforce. Okay. And I write in the book extensively about how I believe artificial intelligence and humans can work together in a collaborative environment to produce the best outcomes. Okay. AI is not something that's an excuse to fire a bunch of people. Okay. That that's a management decision. Okay. AI is just a tool that can do repetitive activities much faster than humans can, but it doesn't replace humans. We still need humans for human judgment, for empathy, for those things that machines are not yet handling. Now, when we get to quantum computing at some point in the next couple of years here. maybe the ball game's gonna change a little bit, but right now, based on the technology we're looking at at the moment, you know, that human machine collaboration is critical to a business's success. I want to ask a follow-up question about that, but before I do, you mentioned the book. And so I want to go there for a second. Tell us a little bit more about just the the overall preface of the book, who is it for, and what are some of the other topics that you talk about? Well, the book is called Beyond the Business Plan. I brought it with me. And it it really is a playbook for companies that are trying to manage through what is perhaps the most chaotic business environment we've seen in history. things are moving so quickly that if you're trying to operate a business, you know, the five year business plan is gone out the window. Okay, before the ink dries on that five year business plan. the the the whole environment has changed and the business plan's no longer valid. So in the book I talk about a 12 week planning cycle rather than a five year planning cycle. I also talk about the pillars of a framework that help companies adapt and continue to evolve as the technology changes. And those four pillars are what I call the alt framework. The B stands for the business planning, that twelve week cycle that I just mentioned. The O refers to operations and L is the leadership aspect of the framework. And then the final aspect is the teams. how how you basically create teams of humans and machines to be able to collaborate with each other. And it's not just artificial intelligence. I also talk about robotics in the The examples that I gave was a a young fellow who worked for a warehouse who heard that the company was going to be bringing in hundreds of robots to replace workers and was terrified that he was gonna lose his job. And instead, they ended up upskilling him and ended up giving him the responsibility for managing a team of robots. So there are gonna be all kinds of wonderful opportunities in the future for people. So the book is really written for just about anybody who's you who's in the in the business environment, whether you're a member of the board, whether you're a business leader, whether you're an advisor that advises businesses, or even if you're a business student who's preparing to launch a career into the business world, all these things are you know, all these people are going to benefit from the things in this book. Similarly, if you're just an employee that works for a company, understanding what your role in that company might be in the future if they go ahead and adopt that bolt framework is really important too because, the one thing that we are really struggling with now as a society is education. we're just not educating our children to prepare them for the future that they're going to be forced to deal with. And the future that they're gonna be forced to deal with is going to require that they have the ability to learn, to unlearn, and then relearn almost constantly. Okay. It's not about memorization anymore. It's about the ability to really adapt as the tools that you're using are adapting and to be able to do it in a way that enables you to continue to benefit and contribute to the company's success. So Yeah, the the the the book is really for everyone, I guess is the short answer. Yeah. I I think my favorite part might be the twelve week planning cycle. I'm gonna have to read more about that. I was just in a conversation the other day about planning cycles and what they used to look like and and thinking back to the first organization that I I worked for did a three-year plan and it was this big to-do, and it would take months to put together this hundred plus page deck. and just this this hyper fixation and focus on it for so long for so many important people and it's that'd be it's totally obsolete in today's and then the saddest thing about it was that they would spend through you know all this time they would invest all this time in creating this masterpiece business plan. People used to hire me to write their business plan. So I mean I know how much we're gonna think or two about those things. Yeah. yeah. No. But they were the gold standard. If you wanted to go to a bank and get a loan, they wanted to see your business plan. If you wanted to go to an insurance company and insure your business, they wanted to see your business plan. It was the gold standard. But here's the problem with that. Once you adopted that plan, if the world changed around you, the plan never changed. People had invested so much ego and time and money into those plans that They just focused on executing the plan and completely ignored what th was going around them, in the outside world. And so that was perhaps the biggest danger of those long term plans was the rigidity associated with with being able to change. Yeah. It circles back to your point around adapt and learn, adapt and learn, adapt and learn. I have to pick your brain on this and this was not part of our plan. So I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit. Just because I live because I live in the world of HR and people and hiring. I'm curious for your perspective on this. As as a leader thinks about building their organization and and bringing in the right people to adapt and learn, adapt and learn, what should they be looking for as they're selecting people for their teams? How do you how do you assess that as you're hiring for your team? Well, that's that that's tough because, you know, over the course of my career, I can honestly say I've interviewed over a thousand people for jobs and I've had a pretty good track record, but I I I still make mistakes. And and so what are you looking for? obviously I would think one of the things that would be a plus for any applicant is military service. people that have had military the civilian world tends to discount those with military service. They tend to be a little scared of maybe, you know, maybe they have a twitch, you know, maybe maybe they they're dealing with some issues, you know. But but the truth of the matter is people that have served in the military have learned a number of skills that are invaluable in the business environment. And they that's attention to detail, that's leadersh that's discipline, that's integrity, that's accountability. All those all those issues, you know, they develop in the Marine Corps or in the Army or the Navy or whatever branch of the service they might serve in. That would be if I were a an employer looking to hire somebody Who would be able to maybe come into an environment and be able to make changes as the environment changed and was adaptable, that would be one of the things I would want to look for is somebody with a background like the military, not necessarily the military, but somebody that's maybe done a bunch of different things, bounced around to different careers, somebody who demonstrates that that they tend to think in a much broader fashion, somebody who shows that they have interest and curiosity. those are gonna be the skills that really maybe are gonna help you find the right person. Yeah. I think the thing that that I I tend to agree with and and love about the way that you thought about that response is just that it's in today's world it's less about the X's and O's of some project that someone has done or some technology that they've learned. And it's all about those core values and character traits that will be. Because the technology is gonna change tomorrow. It really is evolving so quickly. that if you're hiring somebody because they have the ability to operate, Claude, let's say, you know, they know they know Claude. Well, Claude may be a very different tool in a in a year from now. And so, you know, it's not so much your ability to operate a tool today as it is your ability to adapt and operate whatever tool gets thrown at you in the future. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. It's it's Back to the adapt and learn concept. I think we're all signed up for just a continuous cycle of that. As well as I do, that human nature is such that most people resist change. They don't they don't embrace it. They don't, and and certainly people that have been doing the same job for many, many years, their egos are tied up in those jobs. So getting them to buy in to that change, you know, challenges the the business's culture, which is something else I talk about in the book is how you get employees to to accept those changes. And one of the things I suggest in the book is that you do that on the front end before you even decide to bring in AI. You bring the employees all together and you say, we're thinking about it. How do you think AI might help you? If we did bring in AI, what would you want to see it help you do? You know, and try to get the employees to buy in and help you configure. a tool that is going to basically help the organization and have the everybody's buying. And otherwise, if you just bring in a tool and tell the employees to use it, you're going to start seeing all kinds of problems. People working around the tool. You're going to see sort shadow use. You know, I I don't know how to use open AI, but I got Claude on my phone. So I'm going to I'm going to do the same thing on Claude, you know, that kind of thing. those those things are happening right now and those are risks that most business owners don't even consider. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned earlier as we were talking about your your book that was released in June of this year, that it's really a playbook for business leaders or or really a an array of audiences to sort of navigate today's business world. but you shared with me earlier that you have another book that's coming out. If you don't if you're comfortable sharing, tell us a little bit about what that book will be and and when we could expect it. Well, the the The next book that is coming out, hopefully in the next couple of months, it's already with the publisher and they're going through it now, is focused on governance from the board's perspective. This first book that I wrote is focused on governance from internal operations. how someone within the organization would need to basically implement governance in order to ensure that the tools that the organization is using. are operating appropriately and within within expectations. The second book focuses on the board of governors or the board of directors that are looking from the outside in at the organization and what their governance responsibilities are. You know, most people don't necessarily realize that if you're on the board of directors for an organization, you have a fiduciary duty, which is the highest legal duty under the law, to oversee the business in a way that protects the interest of the business's owners, the shareholders. And, you know, with most board members these days, very few of them have the technological background or experience to understand AI and much less govern it and oversee its governance. So this second book comes out and talks about that aspect of being on the board. And it goes chapter through chapter of if you're talking to the chief executive officer, what questions would you ask the CEO? What questions would you ask the general counsel? What questions should you be asking the chief technology officer? What should you be asking your insurance broker about coverages? Because right now a lot of insurance companies aren't covering AI and they're writing exclusions on directors and officers' policies. That involve decisions that involve the use of AI. So this is a very important time and a very challenging time for for directors. and so this second book is focused on directors, but because it also talks about how the directors interact with all the different officers within the organization, it's also a book for the officers within the organization to know what the board's gonna be asking you. And to be able to anticipate those questions. It'll help you do a better j a better job of preparing the board for their responsibilities relative to governance. Yeah. I think it it's a critical angle to to look at all of these problem statements, emerging problem statements in organizations. So really, really excited to learn more about that. And I want to zoom out for just a second here. If you think about a leader who's interacting with your your book or your books. I is there one thing that you would hope that that leader would take away from your work? One lesson? I would have to say the confidence to look forward. It it really was written from the point of view of someone who has spent an entire career trying to help others manage risk. And so I wrote the book really to help people understand what those risks were and perhaps the best way to address those risks. And offer them a playbook, what I think is the solution to managing the organization in a sustainable and ethical way and in a way that's gonna if you implement the suggestions that are right in the book, is gonna put you ahead of most of your competitors. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes that makes a ton of sense. I'm gonna close us out here. We typically do some quick hit advice at the end. So I've got a couple of just punchy questions for you before we close here. But it's been so fun to getting to to pick your brain. no, I've enjoyed it. It's been it's been a lot of fun there. Yeah, I feel like I've got lots more to learn and to order your book and dig into that further. Perhaps after you after you had a chance to read the book, maybe we can speak again and and talk about it in a little more detail. We should. That wouldn't be the first time we've done that, a little two part series. So I may take you up on that. But first quick hit advice, Ted, what is one risk, one specific risk that leaders should be paying more attention to right now? my goodness. I mean the short answer is Artificial intelligence. That is the risk right now. From that comes all kinds of what I would refer to as sub-risks that flow from that. Obviously, mistakes at scale would be an example. If you're using artificial intelligence in your production and you're not paying attention because you haven't read my book, and you end up producing, you know, an output that's a, you know, a bunch of mistakes or end up, you know. telling a customer the wrong advice. And I use examples in the book. I provide all kinds of case studies where, AI has gone sideways on the company. an example is Canadian Air, where they had AI basically responding to customer inquiries about flight discounts and whatnot. And there was a gentleman who wanted to purchase a ticket for bereavement leave because his family member had passed and he wanted to fly to the funeral. And the AI had given him certain advice that turned out to be contrary to the Air Canada's policies. And Air Canada ended up taking the position. Artificial intelligence is a separate entity. It made that decision all by itself. It's not our fault. and it actually went to court and of course the court didn't buy that at all. but is an example where governance failed, where you know nobody was watching what AI was saying. to its customers. And so that would have to be the biggest risk right now is AI and then all the risks that flow from that. Yeah. Yeah. It and I think it's probably a deep well of those. And so and increasingly so. I mean, you know, the more an organization uses AI, the more risk it's embracing. And, you know, a lot of times if you can't if you can't necessarily understand the tool that you're using and explain it to others in a way That you it makes sense. Well, how did AI make that decision? Well, I don't know, it just spit it out. Yeah, that that dog don't hunt, okay? That answer will not work. so you know it it's really important that you take the time to understand the tools you're using and then use them appropriately, with proper governance. Yeah. It makes a ton of sense. Last quick hit question or or piece of advice, Ted. If you could give your younger self one piece of career advice, what would it be? I would have to say that it would be to have been more focused on a direction in my career. I tended to kind of go with whatever the flow was, whatever way the the wind blew me. I became a lawyer, literally on a whim. I had gone to college and and be it was an economics major. And when I got out of service I had fully intended to become an economist. And I went to the V and I got the perfect job, by the way, as an economist. I but I was literally hired and fired the same day. Yeah, I I have to tell you the story and Okay, I was gonna say you can't leave us hanging at that. I apologize if it takes too long, but I have to share the story. it was a Friday morning and my headhunter found a job working for Union Bank in their international affairs division. And it was on the twenty-seventh floor of the Union Bank building in downtown Los Angeles. And I had an interview with the senior vice president of international affairs. And I have to tell you, Aaron, it was the best interview in my life. The end of the interview, the guy has his arm around me, Teg, when can you start? Yeah. Monday morning, great. We'll see you Monday morning and I go home. I am thrilled. Now, this job would have involved going on behalf of the bank to third world countries and meeting with their political and business leaders and making a recommendation of the bank whether the bank should extend further lines of credit. To that third world country. Now, think about that for a minute, okay? Is that the perfect job? Okay. Just imagine how you're treated in those countries, right? So I am thrilled. I go home, I tell my parents, now bear in mind, I'd just gotten out of the military. I I had no money left. I was living in my parents' garage, and this was going to be the perfect job. Well, about two o'clock in the afternoon, I get a call from the headhunter. Don't bother going to work. You got laid off. And in those days, what happened was the senior vice president got what they call the telefax from their New York headquarters, and they were closing the International Affairs Office in Los Angeles and only relocating essential personnel to their international affairs office in New York. So I literally got hired fired the same day. So here I am now without a job, no money, living in my parents' garage. And so I thought I'd go to the VA and my plan was to go. Asked the VA to pay for bartending school so I could work at night as a bartender while I continued with the headhunter looking for a job as an economist during the day. Made sense, right? Well, the VA didn't think so. they refused to pay for bartending school. So here I am now, sitting across from the representative at the VA, and he's saying he won't pay for bartending school. And I knew I needed to get that GI bill because I Part of it included a a monthly stipend to cover living expenses. So I figured I need that job, so I got to go to school somewhere. So where am I going to go to school? Well, I asked the rent boy, well, where what schools will you pay for? And they said, well, we'll pay for law school. And so I thought about it for a minute. And I had taken some law classes as an undergraduate in college, and there was a the professor that taught those classes with a fellow by the name of Dr. John Newt. And he was also a lawyer and just brilliant. And at the end of my time at the college and I was getting ready to graduate, Dr. New came up to me and said, Are you planning to take the LSAT, the law school entrance exam, in order to go to law school? And I said, No, John, I went ahead and decided to go into the Marine Corps. And he said, What a shame. I thought you would have made a wonderful lawyer. Well, that conversation all of a sudden came back to me as I'm sitting across the way from this representative from the VA. And I said, Well, I'll go to law school. And so That's how I ended up becoming a lawyer and that was over forty years ago now. Wow. Wow. It's amazing how impactful even the smallest comments and and relationships can be. And so I I just tended to go whichever way fate took me. and you know, I think if I'd been in more control of of my decisions, maybe I might have made better decisions, maybe not. I I mean I'm very happy with the way things turned out, so I shouldn't tell my my young self anything. Yeah. I think maybe it's a balance of those things, right? Try to be thoughtful, but to some extent you can make plans and and you're not in control. Yeah, no, I think if if there was one thing though that I I'd want to tell my young self, it's maybe finding a better work life balance. You know, I I grew up at a time when eighty hour a week was was the norm. It was not it was not unusual. And so I became somewhat of a workaholic, in order to succeed. And so maybe if I'd been a little wiser, maybe I would have balanced that work life experience out a little better. But beyond that, I think things turned out pretty good. Yeah. No, it sounds like it. You've got tons of stories to tell and I've enjoyed learning about a few of them. Ted, where can people find you and where can they find your book if they want to learn more? Well, the the publisher set up a website for the book. And so I can share that with you if you want. We'll link it in in the in the comments. And and then obviously the book is on all the platforms. It's on Amazon, it's on Barnes and Noble, it's on Ingram, and it's even being sold in Europe through KDP, I think. So you know, the book is readily available. As far as getting a hold of me, probably the best way is on LinkedIn. you know, can go ahead and find me on LinkedIn. I also have a Facebook page for THB consulting services and so you can find me that way as well. I don't have my own website. I took it down years ago. I don't really accept new clients now. I will occasionally take a referral from an existing client, or if it's a new client that has maybe an interesting situation, maybe I'll take the matter. But for the most part I'm not out there marketing my my services anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's been great to learn and chat and maybe we can do this all again in in a follow up mentioned. But thank you so much, Ted, for the conversation. It's been great and looking forward to continuing the conversation another time. Thank you, Aaron. I look forward to speaking with you again. Hopefully when the when the next book comes out. All right. Take care. All right. You too.