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Books4Guys Podcast - Lynda Williams · Books4Guys

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Have never crossed into Canada.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is interesting.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's a cheap vacation because of the dollar difference, right?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I hear Vancouver's beautiful.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: My wife's been to both Vancouver and Toronto.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of friends travel, and I'm like, I've been so many places, but I've never been to Canada.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: It makes no sense.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're due.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm due.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm due.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: But no, Linda, it is exciting to talk with you today, and I'm super pumped to talk about your book that actually just came out in the fall of last year.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm interested to just know more about it because I don't want to, I don't want to give too much away, but there's a little, which I'm a fan of this, but a little bit of darkness, a little bit of a little bit of uh kind of needles you a little bit.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: It puts you on edge as you're reading the description of it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I I wanted to, Linda, if you don't mind, I want to read just kind of a little bit of the summary just so people know what we're talking about.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: But here's a little bit of the insert of it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: A woman comes face to face with her rapist at his engagement party.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: A teen reluctantly celebrating the first Christmas after her m her mother's death.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna stop there.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: When I was reading it, I was like, ooh, this is this is pretty juicy.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we get some messy and complicated women happening.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to say, my favorite characters to read are anti-heroes, right?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I studied English in university, and throughout the the English literary canon, you encounter a lot of these anti-heroes, but you don't encounter as many messy women.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I really wanted to make that a project for myself to write that kind of woman.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with that.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: When they they read a woman who is unapologetically a jerk, they get upset.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: They don't like her.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're holding men and women in life and in literature to different standards, right?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, great, great points.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love for you to actually dive in a little bit more on that particular subject because I'm really curious to know.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: It seemed like you saw an opportunity to write about something that a lot of people aren't writing about, you know, in a fiction way.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely not read too many books personally, and it's and they may be out there.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just haven't opened myself up to it or haven't seen any of it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: But to me, talking about your book, it's a different book than I've ever expected before.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I guess to start around that question, what how did you create the story?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: What motivated you to because it's not just one story, it's short stories with different characters, different situations.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: How did you go about finding the inspiration for that and then putting them together in one, you know, one book?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the story has kind of found me.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: They do span uh 15 years.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the earliest ones in the book are written 2008, 2009.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, I wasn't really thinking about how they might become a book or fit together that way, but I was writing seriously, submitting to a lot of literary journals, and I got rejected so much that I actually set the story writing aside for, oh, I'd say about seven years.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then the global pandemic happened, and everyone had time to write.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was doom scrolling like everyone else.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what I was seeing on social media was a lot of people had used their time to write the book they'd always dreamed of.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, why aren't you doing this?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I got a little envious in a good way, right?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I decided this is gonna be a collection.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I pulled out the old stories.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I realized I need more to round out a collection.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought about, well, what's gonna be different this time?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you've never tried to write a book.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually applied to the mentorship program at Humber Polytechnic.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's an online program.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're based out of Toronto, and that I would credit with the fact that we are in possession of an actual physical book today.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I might still be in the weeds if not for that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: How does that feel when you first got the physical copy where you're like, whoa.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's mind-blowing.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're an inch above the sidewalk for a good week, right?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's something, I mean, I guess maybe not for everyone, but I think for a lot of writers, their first book is something they've been imagining for years, right?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there is a lifetime put into it.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it is surreal.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and your stories in the book, like you said, started in like 2008.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, we're going on, I mean, it's 2025 when the book comes out.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: 17 years of work that's correlated into this one one book.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that I'm, I mean, a long journey to see.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess I'm curious to know too.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: I asked this question because not many people spend that long of time, you know, gathering work to put together for a work to for a book.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I talk to people a lot about how, depending on what's going on in your life and your circumstances, it could change how you write just from things that are influencing you.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk about it in like from start to finish of a book over like a year or two.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: But how did you see a real difference from 2008 and then like the stories you were creating just a few years ago that went into this?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's definitely a different Linda writing those, because I mean, I was in my mid-20s when I wrote the earlier ones.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, just what you think about and your whole existence is different compared to like 40.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the thing that I think kind of binds them is that I was revising them all at the same time.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: When yeah, so that kind of keeps them feeling cohesive, right?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So what you know, with and and I re I read off some of the main points of each of these stories.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that you want people to experience or take away as they read your book?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, that it deals with some sensitive subjects, some things that that if or when you encountered that sort of thing in real life, it's like, you know, it's very serious.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: From what I understand, you kind of put a little bit of dark humor into it to lighten it a little bit.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you want people to receive it?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what are some things you hope people are taking away?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what are some things that's been shared with you from people that have read it?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: What were their takeaways?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: With were there any that were surprising to you or different than you thought they may experience with it?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in terms of what I hope, I always hope it will make people laugh.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like despite how dark it is.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I sign the book, it's you know, always the same.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I hope these messy women just, you know, give you a laugh or two, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: If they make you cry a little bit, well, that's fine.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: But the real hope is the laughter.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, life is absurd, right?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Life is difficult.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, if we can't take those little kernels of humor, even from the darkest moments, I don't know, what are you gonna do, right?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there's that at the most basic level.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of I think relating to some of the darker aspects of feeling seen, I know in my favorite stories, sometimes I recognize a piece of myself in a character.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not always an admirable or attractive character, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: That was very much my hope with these people, that they're not role models that you look up to, but that you might see part of yourself in them and be comforted by that to know that that part is human too, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that approach because you're exactly right.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Life is messy, and a lot of people don't want to broadcast the messiness or or let that be seen.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: But this is a way people can experience some of maybe some similar things in their own life, but they're like, huh, like somebody else gets it.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're writing about it.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, surely there's someone else out there that thinks the way I think or has experienced something the way I've experienced it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's tricky, you know, but I think it's super cool that you took on the challenge of like, you know what?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's put this, let's put this out there.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think I think people need to feel this and and see this and experience these things and know that, like you said, yeah, we're all human.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: We all have weird things and experiences we we deal with, and so there's nothing to be ashamed of about that.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think that's just again, I just I I find it really fascinating that you put this together and they're sharing this.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what are some, you know, kind of like I asked a minute ago, what are some what are some things people are saying to you that have read the book?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Has it all been ha have they all laughed and taken certain things away, or was there something that someone said that you're like, oh, I didn't think that would uh come across that way?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: But that's interesting that you took that from this book.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as far as the latter goes, I'm often surprised, and I can't remember of a specific example, but when people ask if I did something on purpose, and it's like I never thought about that at all.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: It never occurred to me that there was something happening that deep or that this symbolism was working for me in that way.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, wow, you picked up on something I wasn't even putting down, right?
• 9:43
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's impressive because reading and writing are sort of this team sport.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have the interaction between writer and reader without coming into contact with each other.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Every reader is bringing their own unique experiences to the book, and that colors the way they read it.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they will pick up on stuff that you hadn't imagined.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that is my favorite part.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I find you're talking about symbolism.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking back, and this kind of even goes deeper to books for guys and like why I'm encouraging reading and just kind of being able to critically think the way you want to read what you're interested in.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like growing up you'd read something and you were kind of told what the symbolism was supposed to be, and like this is the message the author was saying.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the more I talk with different authors, I'm like, sometimes they didn't actually mean that.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And or if they did, someone took it totally different.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how do we actually know this is exactly what it we're supposed to feel or supposed to know?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I always questioned that, and I'm glad I did because now the more I talk with people, I'm like, yeah, there's so many different routes this could go and could mean so many different things.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm glad you said that because it just validates my feelings when I was a younger reader.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if this is actually 100% correct or not.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I love the discussion of it, but that's why I think it's cool because again, you're I think your work, people could experience different things based off what's going on in their lives or what they've heard of someone else's life, or reading something they've never experienced, and you know, trying to figure out what does this mean, or what did what did Linda want to say here through this character.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just find that really fascinating.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you said like there's different things being taken away from different readers, and even you are surprised, like, yeah, I didn't really think that, but that's interesting.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I could see why you would what why you would think that.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like I said, it's my favorite part because I agree with you.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: In school, I felt frustrated that there was an authority authoritative version of how you should read a book.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get to university and they say, well, the author's intention doesn't matter at all.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, make an argument and prove it.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we want you to do.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's just interesting.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I again, I find that interesting because I want, I think I realize that.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, you know what?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just want people, yeah, figure it out on your own or let me know what you're thinking.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'd curious, you know, be curious.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of my main thing.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just be curious.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good thing.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: But Linda, now that this book is out there, and and obviously you spent a lot of time and years, and it's amazing the amount of people I've talked to that were like, COVID led me to finishing my book, or really gave me the time or motivation.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of books got written during COVID and the pan, which is uh maybe that'll be a study later on on a lot of things.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: But are you, now that you've got that out there, are you working on new projects or what's kind of your future look like?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, so the plan was another collection of stories.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then shortly after I launched this one, I wrote a story that wouldn't really let me go.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like the characters insisted on more space.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that has blossomed into a novel.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what I'm working on currently.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I always said no novels for Linda because I like the like the quick dopamine hit of I've finished something in a short amount of time.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: The long haul in novels is really you can't underestimate it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're different beast stories and novels for many different reasons, but I think you need that much more of a support network to make a novel happen because you're not getting these quick hits of validation, I guess you you would say, from like publishing in a journal, or yeah, you just it's it's lonely.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I've I've heard that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Have you tried writing a novel before?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then is that when you realize like I can't keep this is not keeping my attention?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's interesting that you say you found some characters now that are keeping your attention and they need more than a short story, but it sounds like you've experienced before trying and you were like, no, I can't do this.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't me.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's interesting the process of how this story, whatever it ends up being, obviously we don't know yet, has grabbed you enough to say, like, this needs to be longer than a short story.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think process is the key word there.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: So years ago, when I was still in high school, I did start writing this novel, and I took the very um sound writing advice that I should be outlining it chapter by chapter.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I did all my planning and I got about 140 pages into this.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, getting to the mushy middle there, and I realized I didn't care about it anymore because I knew exactly what would happen.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Pace by pace, chapter by chapter, I knew the ending, and that was when it really occurred to me that I might be a different kind of writer, I might be a discovery writer, I might need to not know the ending.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And as far as the stories go, that's sustainable to not know the ending for say four or five thousand words.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you don't know the ending and you've got to write 80 or 90,000 words, that's uh a little bit of a different gamble, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Although lots of writers do it, and many writers use reverse outlines, I'm learning now, which I might try.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: That is the backstory to that.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's cool that you are still you're kind of in this journey of learning and figuring out, like you're you're not set to this is the only way you're gonna write and do things.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're kind of letting things organically happen, whether they take a long time or whether it comes to you and you're able to put it together quickly and get it out there.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really cool that you have the openness to just kind of let it happen and also to do what you're interested in, because yeah, it's not good for anyone if you're not interested in it.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why waste your time?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not gonna put your best work into that.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And your reader's probably going to see that too and be like, did she even like this?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Salty.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's nothing wrong with quitting one thing and and working on the thing that you really want to put time into.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it is cool that you've let things organically happen.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's probably why this book has come together so well with your short stories, and I'm sure your novel will be the same way, because it's like you're leaving yourself just enough unknown as you write it to keep your interest going until you get to the completion of it.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's a good strategy.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's working for me, and that's the one thing I think because I mean, this is my first book, and yet I've been at the writing thing for over 20 years.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've had time to figure out what works for me, and that is very much the key.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: There needs to be some mystery left in it, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: You said something too that actually another author that I interviewed last week had mentioned because he has written both fiction and nonfiction.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: His newest book's a nonfiction book, and I was asking him the differences between writing those, and he was like, you know, it's super interesting.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Fiction, while you can be very creative, he mentioned the word lonely because you're by yourself, you're working on something, it's your story, you're not really, you don't really need a lot of interaction with others.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: But he said his nonfiction, which was, you know, writing about a specific event.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of research and interviews and talking with people.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he he almost, it seems like for now he's probably gonna switch to more nonfiction as he enjoyed that part of it for a while.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you you mentioned lonely in in writing some of these?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that sometimes to be a struggle where you think like, hey, I need to find some inspiration or do something different where I'm talking with people?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have you ever thought about going a nonfiction route, whether that be in short form or long form, or are you pretty and maybe that down the road, maybe it's an organic thing that happens again, but but your thoughts on just that?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is there struggles in writing fiction that we don't think about as readers?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I know the lonely part came up, but just what what is your experience in writing fiction?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Such an interesting distinction, and I think it's it's very apt because when I reflect on why did it take so long for Linda to get her first book into the world, I absolutely think it's because I thought it was okay to cowboy it alone.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't seek out a writing community, and that's what I kind of found through the mentorship program, and that was like a missing piece.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, you need to have somebody to bounce your work off of.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You need to go to the open mic nights and be at the book launches for the people um in your community.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the pandemic made it impossible to do it in person, but possible to reach so much farther online, right?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I think back to 2017, Linda, the idea that I could just, you know, hang out online with this guy from Tennessee would be like mind blown, right?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, this is totally ordinary now.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And thank goodness for that, right?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's very cool.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd have told me even three years ago that I would be having these conversations, I'd be like, yeah, no way.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm so glad I am because I'm getting to meet so many interesting people and learn about things that I would never have the chance to do without this platform and and the way we go about it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I find, yeah, it's it's awesome.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I was thinking about that and just like the way, again, the the struggles that your characters go through sitting there.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me ask this actually.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: That leads me to a good question.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is writing for you an outlet from like your your everyday life?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because as I'm thinking about writing this, just personally, if I was writing about some of the stuff that these characters were going through, I would almost need another outlet to kind of get away from that for a while and clear my head and come back.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what's your approach, I guess, is is the writing your full outlet?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have to find another outlet to take a break from some of these stories?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or what does that look like for Linda?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: To an extent, the writing is an outlet itself.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean that I didn't come away from some of it a little bit depleted.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like um before I started the mentorship program at the beginning of the pandemic, I was working in peer support for the Canadian Mental Health Association.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that was um kind of the same sort of work that yes, it's very rewarding, but also you come home quite drained because you're giving a lot of yourself.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that very not compatible with the kind of stories I was writing.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So nothing was happening there, and I left that behind to focus on the book because the emotional energy it takes to write that kind of story is draining.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if I were to do that kind of story again, that kind of all-encompassing book about trauma and grief, I would be looking for a sport.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: To burn off some of that physically.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was waiting to hear.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I played tick pickleball or tennis or I ran, you know, just to like get out and kind of release some of that buildup of stress and tension that you're you're thinking about as you're wanting, because again, you're you're wanting to put that in the book so that the reader feels that too.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I can only imagine, you know, I'm not a writer, but I've I kind of know and I've learned what that process would look like.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm reading, you know, I know that the author would want me to feel this way and feel the intensity of the moment.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure you're putting just as much or more into it from your side.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I uh thankfully I love to like work out and run and on it, even just for my daily of reading and then doing, you know, my work, I'm like, I need an outlet.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, everyone does, but I was curious just in you, because a lot of writers say like that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: The writing is the outlet, but I haven't really again I haven't talked with anyone who writes a lot of like the trauma or that sort of thing.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was curious to know yeah, do you need an extra outlet on top of the outlet of writing?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like you got a good mixture and balance there.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would absolutely recommend people think about that going into it.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, it's very much a hindsight thing of, oh, I should have had one.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, girl, sounds like growing up, like you were you've always been a writer and you've always put stories together.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Have you always been a reader along with that?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's where it started.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: My mother is a voracious reader.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think part of her way to get some me time in was to read books to us as children, but not just like kids' books.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's where she had to start us, of course.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: But she read Heidi to me when I was three, you know, she had me on chapter books really young.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, obviously that was probably more interesting for her than Peter Rabbit, but now I I really believe in pushing kids by reading over their level a little just a little bit, you know.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let them interrupt you to say what does that word mean?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I interrupt it a lot, but I I don't think I would have been interested in writing so early if it wasn't for that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love that approach too.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like just a little bit of challenge for that growth to happen.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be applied to a lot of different areas of life.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a that's a really good point that you just made there.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: As you write more and more, do you still read as much as you used to?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there a struggle between finding time to read others' work and also balance writing your own?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you been able to find that balance where you still get to read for enjoyment while also, you know, doing your passion on the writing side?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's definitely some push and pull there.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I find there are like cluster periods of frenzied reading.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're on submission and you're looking for those perfect comp titles, right?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you're just thinking there must be a better one.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: There must be something that's just come out that I need to read, right?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a very frenzied reading period.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then after the book came out, I was doing so much, just like we're doing right now, publicity.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't in the headspace as much to be just spending that quality time with books.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started to really miss it.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I spent like a lot of time again doing it.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it happens that way with writing.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: When you get really immersed in your own work, you do start to forget that hey, I need to start reading my to be read pile from all these launches I've been attending.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've heard that struggle too.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Some people say it's really hard to read, especially when you're working on certain books, uh like a novel.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine too, a lot of time goes into that.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there's only so much time in the day when you've got so much going on.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm always curious how people, different people balance that out.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: But Linda, I've got one more question for you, and that kind of was my lead-in to it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always I ask this question to everyone that that comes on the podcast just from a book standpoint.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally, and what's a book that you like to recommend to others when asked?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so in terms of a book that meant a lot to me personally, Pam Houston's Cowboys Are My Weakness was the first short story collection I read that just it was like an album that you want to play over and over because there wasn't a single song you didn't like.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know how when you had tapes and CDs, there's usually one or two in there that you wanted to skip.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: But there there was none of that in this book.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the first book that I made me think, oh, maybe short stories are are a possibility for me in book form.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want to play with this.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I I reread some of those stories so many times, just you know, wearing out the spine on this book.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that definitely made a difference to me and my voice.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: But when I think about to recommend, I mean, there's so many I want to recommend.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want let me ask you this question.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you read primarily fiction or do you read uh do you read both nonfiction and fiction?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: I read both, but I would say it's like a 70-30 split.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it depends what age.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want to push young readers on something like Charlotte's Webb.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Get started with the band books young.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you're I'm hitting grade six or seven, I want you to read Anne Frank.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're an adult, maybe go back to Orwell 1984.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good one.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: All interesting.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I read all of those books.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, they're pillars.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, great recommendations.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: But no, Linda, thank you for taking the time to do this and congratulations on your book.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm sure it's still, when you look at it, I'm sure you're like, it still feels like such an accomplishment.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it is.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we've got it spotlighted on the website for you.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully, every, you know, a lot of people want to read it and go get it.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: But we're excited for your future work as well.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: As you put out this novel, we're gonna have to have you back on the podcast to talk about it and get that book spotlighted as well.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so very excited for you.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to see the future work that you put out there.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh again, thank you for doing this.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: This was a really great conversation.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm it I'm going to read your book because I find that super fascinating.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to hear other people that read it too, so I can talk with them.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But no, thank you, Linda.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: This has been great.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure, and thank you so much for having me.