Latest / The Future Herd / 28: The Politics of Standing Up for Farmers with John Barlow

Transcript

28: The Politics of Standing Up for Farmers with John Barlow · The Future Herd

0:00
Jesse Hirsh: Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsch.
0:03
Welcome to the Future Herd.
0:11
Governments love the language of consultation.
0:14
They hold meetings, they invite submissions, they talk to
0:18
organisations, they publish frameworks.
0:21
They say they have listened.
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But farmers know the difference between being consulted and being heard.
0:29
And that difference matters because agriculture is not
0:33
some abstract policy file.
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It's land weather, animals, equipment markets, debt regulation, succession
0:42
research, transportation, trade, and most importantly, trust.
0:48
But it's also food security.
0:50
And the ability of a country to feed itself begins with the people who produce
0:55
the food being taken seriously, listened to and engaged on a substantive level.
1:03
So today, on the Future Herd, we're joined by John Barlow, member of
1:07
Parliament for Foothills, Alberta, and a longtime voice and champion
1:12
of agricultural issues in Ottawa.
1:15
And this conversation really is about the politics of standing up for farmers.
1:20
It's about why Canadian agriculture has enormous potential and why that
1:25
potential is so often slowed down by poor consultation, regulatory distance,
1:31
political neglect, and a public conversation that understands food far
1:36
better than it understands farming.
1:39
John makes a rather blunt case.
1:41
Governments need to actually listen before they regulate, not perform
1:46
listening, not check the consultation box, actually listen to producers,
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ranchers, commodity groups, young farmers and the people closest to the
1:57
consequences of the decisions being made.
2:01
Because food security starts long before food reaches the grocery store.
2:06
It starts at the farm gate, and that's something I think a lot of Canadians
2:11
forget, but that John, to his credit, really focuses on in terms of his
2:17
job as an elected representative and as the shadow minister for
2:21
agriculture in our government.
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I was really excited to have this conversation, and I hope you enjoy
2:29
it nearly half as much as I did.
2:34
John, welcome to the Future Herd.
2:36
John: Uh, it's a real pleasure.
2:37
Thank you very much for having me.
2:39
Jesse Hirsh: Now it is a pleasure for me.
2:41
Uh, I love talking policy on this podcast.
2:44
So to actually speak with a member of Parliament really hits home.
2:47
And of course, I do wanna talk about your constituency as well in
2:52
terms of understanding some of the concerns, uh, that the ranchers
2:56
and farmers that you represent.
2:58
I love to start off the show with a really abstract question that I ask all of our
3:03
guests, which is, what does the future
3:06
mean to you?
3:09
John: Well, in the future of agriculture, I, I think, uh, the
3:12
future to me would be us able to take advantage of the opportunities
3:16
that are right in front of us.
3:17
Um, but in many of those cases, we just can't get out of our own way.
3:21
Uh, so it's, you know, it's that, that, uh, gold medal is
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right there within your grasp.
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Uh, but in many ways you just have to, uh, remove a couple of hurdles to take
3:30
advantage and, and grab that gold.
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And, and I think we can do it.
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Uh, we just need to work together to achieve that.
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Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
3:37
Right on.
3:37
And, and that very much aligns with my worldview, which is it's the obstacles
3:42
and hurdles that in life we need to be focusing on, not so much the, the,
3:47
the, the, the problems we might find in the present in terms of the future.
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Now, the other second question I'd love to ask is kind of the origin story or lore.
3:56
And I kind of imagine in a parallel universe, you're a big
4:01
hotshot in the sports media world.
4:04
And, and I say this because it's remarkable how many of the guests
4:08
that I've had on the podcast either have a communications
4:12
background or a media background.
4:15
That leadership today really speaks to the ability to communicate.
4:20
So asking you what led to Parliament Hill, I'll frame that as,
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John: Yeah.
4:26
Jesse Hirsh: would you still be working in the media today if, if the industry was
4:29
able to provide the kind of excitement and
4:32
opportunities that it used to?
4:34
John: Yeah.
4:35
You know, I, I love the career.
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I, I really enjoy it.
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You, you get to meet people your, every day's a bit different.
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Very similar to, to politics I guess.
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But yeah, had I remained on my path, I would've maybe been, uh, still in
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the newspaper business in Alberta.
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But if I go back, you know, 40 years, I would be, uh,
4:52
reporter for Sports Illustrated.
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That's probably where the initial, the initial goal was.
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But, uh, things get sidetracked a little bit.
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Jesse Hirsh: Uh, the greatest time of my youth was the five years I had a
5:03
Sports Illustrated subscription, so
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I could totally relate.
5:08
of course,
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John: Well, and they gave you a, they gave you a,
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yeah, sorry to say, they gave us a, they gave a sports illustrator, gave us a
5:14
discount if you were involved in media way back in the day, so that was even better.
5:19
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
5:19
Right on.
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Now, of course you do currently have what to me is a dream job.
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And I say this only 'cause I'm a bit of a policy nerd and, and I
5:28
love kind of watching the front lines of how politics is made.
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So my question for you here is how did you gravitate towards agriculture?
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You know, partly in terms of you having the, the kind of shadow minister
5:42
portfolio, I suspect you could have picked a range of portfolio issues or policy
5:49
issues to focus on that that might have still been relevant to your constituency.
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Why agriculture?
5:56
John: Well, I, I would love to give you this, uh, this very, uh, poetic
6:00
explanation of how this happened, but it, it doesn't really happen that way.
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You know, after every election, you, you give the, the leadership
6:08
your list of things that you're interested in, and then they make
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that decision on, on where you go.
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And I, you know, I had to, in all seriousness, had to fight
6:15
for agriculture for a few years.
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You know, I started in aboriginal affairs and natural resources,
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which was, which was great.
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Uh, but I didn't get the, the role in agriculture until I think 2018.
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Uh, and then I've kind of been on that ever since.
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So it took me a few years to get there.
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Uh, but I will give, uh, Andrew Sheer, our former leader, all the credit, uh,
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this was something he thought I would be, I would excel at, put me in this role.
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And, uh, I've, uh, savoured it ever since.
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Jesse Hirsh: And to your point, you have in, in my view, done a, a, a
6:47
fantastic job of, of elevating a policy area that I think y you and I
6:53
recognise as being valuable, it does tend to be ignored or neglected by the
6:59
kind of larger political discourse.
7:02
So why don't we start with that?
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do you think needs to happen either on Parliament Hill or across the agricultural
7:10
sector so that we get more of the respect, more of the attention that we deserve,
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given that food is kind of the basis of
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everything else.
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John: You know, I, I, I think agriculture and food production as a whole needs to
7:25
be elevated to a top priority in Ottawa.
7:28
And then hopefully the mainstream media would actually pay attention
7:31
to what's going on in this industry.
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Just say, I can't, I can't tell you the number of times I have had, uh,
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phone calls or emails from people in the media, uh, the large media outlets
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who will call and say, Hey, um, I've just been given the agriculture beat.
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Uh, I don't really know much about it.
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Would you sit down and kind of walk me through it?
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I always say, yes, anybody who's interested in this industry, I
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want, I want you as a partner.
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Uh, I wanna help you in any way I can.
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Um, those conversations happen and then never to be heard from again.
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I think they just move on to other things.
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So it's, it's kind of frustrating that you, like, I know there's a, a kind
8:07
of a simmering interest underneath the surface, but I think there's a
8:11
lot of that squirrel mentality, you know, something else comes up and
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they move on to the next cool thing.
8:15
Um, and I really thought we had an opportunity with COVID where for the first
8:20
time in my lifetime, I would go to the grocery store and there was empty shelves.
8:24
Canadians were questioning or didn't, were open to education
8:28
on where their food comes from.
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You know, who does it where, where it's, uh, produced.
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And I think we really missed that all opportunity to grab onto that and,
8:37
and take that as a chance to educate Canadians, elevate this to a, a big issue.
8:42
Uh, I think that opportunity is right in front of us again, uh, with
8:46
food, affordability, trade issues.
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If we do not take advantage of this, you know, don't waste a good crisis
8:52
if we don't take advantage of this and really reach out to Canadians,
8:55
educate them about where their fruit comes from, how we do it, why we do it.
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Uh, I, I think this is yet again, uh, a failure on, on leadership,
9:04
not only politically, uh, but even with the communications of
9:06
the mainstream media as well.
9:09
Jesse Hirsh: You know, why don't you elaborate on that a bit and, and in, in
9:12
no small part, because I saw yesterday you, you put out a post on X that really
9:17
linked, uh, food security to the larger kind of research capacity that, especially
9:23
in rural communities, plays a, an important part in, in terms of the larger
9:28
agricultural sector and the rural economy.
9:31
Which to your point about the journalists who come to get the free crash course
9:34
from you and then ghost you afterwards, does seem to be a disconnect in our
9:40
media in terms of, to your point, not only helping people understand where
9:44
their food comes from, understanding the infrastructure that the sector
9:49
requires to thrive to prosper.
9:51
I I, I'd love for you
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to kind of unpack that.
9:54
John: Yeah, I, I think the, the closure of the seven research, uh, stations
9:58
and experimental farms is, is a perfect example of microcosm what we're dealing
10:01
with here, where if you can't get the little things right, if you can't get
10:06
the very beginning, you know, we talked about reaching for that gold medal.
10:09
If you stumble out of the starting gates, you're probably
10:11
not gonna win that gold medal.
10:13
And by turning our backs on research and innovation, I think you were
10:18
getting the fundamental beginning of this, this race wrong, um, where
10:23
every single expert that we had said, this is the consequences of these
10:27
closures is potentially catastrophic.
10:30
But you also have a government that says, the Prime Minister says A country cannot
10:34
feed itself, has very little options.
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So how do you say that on the global stage?
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And then one of your first actions as a government when it comes to
10:43
a decision around agriculture, is to close seven essential research
10:47
centres, closures that will only save.
10:50
And I, I say only, you know, in the bigger scheme of things, about $200
10:54
million over the next 10 years, when you have a $75 billion deficit, I can
11:00
tell you, I can find that $200 million in a multitude of different places.
11:05
This is a decision not based on budgeting, but a decision based on values.
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And this message to me is agriculture and AgriFood production is not
11:15
a priority with this government.
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And that's what my video was really stressing is, uh, if we really care about
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food safety, we really care about food security, food affordability, then we
11:25
should be augmenting and ensuring these research centres have the resources that
11:29
they need, not, um, stripping it away.
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Uh, and, and I just, the, the message that this sends to agriculture
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is, uh, is concerning for sure.
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Jesse Hirsh: And, and this gets to one of the other things I was really excited
11:42
to talk to you about, which is part of the, the privilege of your role is, is
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you get to hear from farmers, you get to hear from sectoral leaders, you know,
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partly because you put in the effort, but partly 'cause they want to talk to you.
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So it, it's kind of a two-parter.
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I I'm curious on the one hand, what you're hearing from sectoral leaders who, who
12:02
are trying to do their best either in this case, to, to, to look at the loss of these
12:06
cuts and the impact that has, let alone advocate for other policies that, you
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know, champion and reinforce the sector.
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What you also represent individual farmers and ranchers who I have to
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assume you're also in touch with.
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And there's all another kind of source of intelligence of what's
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happening out there on the ground.
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So I, again, I'd love to hear what you are hearing to get a greater sense of
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how the kind of larger food security or just the larger crisis around the
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costs, uh, of farming, you know, what you're hearing in terms of the general
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concerns as well as the kind of actions that we should be, uh, uh, looking
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at and entertaining.
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John: Yeah, certainly we, we take a, a two-pronged approach to
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these, to these issues when we, um, are, are trying to resolve them
12:53
or, or find potential solutions.
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Certainly, uh, the agriculture stakeholders have, you know, very
12:58
talented people in Ottawa as, as part of their, their lobby efforts.
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Um, we, of course, we listen to them, we meet with them on a, on a regular
13:06
basis just to get the pulse of, of some of the concerns that they're having.
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But I, I think it's absolutely critical, uh, for us to, um, I guess
13:17
to just reassure ourselves or to just quantify the, the actual priorities
13:22
by talking to farmers, ranchers, producers, processors on the ground.
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Are these truly the priorities that they see, uh, are are they feeling the effects
13:32
of, of whatever this issue be, or are they focused on something entirely different?
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Uh, and I think it's, it's absolutely critical that as elected officials,
13:40
that we keep our, our finger on the pulse of people who are, have their
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fingers in the, literally in the dirt.
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Um, so I'm very blessed to be representing Foothills in Southern Alberta.
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So I have a, a wide variety of, uh, of agriculture folks in, in my
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riding and, and I'm, I'm truly reach out to them on a regular basis.
13:58
I have some of the most, uh, talented agriculture people in the
14:02
world, uh, that live in southern Alberta, so I'm very lucky that way.
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Um, but I spend, you know, uh, as much as my wife will wonder where I am
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sometimes I spend a lot of time on the road in other parts of Canada as well.
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Um, agriculture, as you'll know, Jesse, there's a lot of the same
14:18
issues, uh, permeate throughout the country, but agriculture's different
14:22
in every part of that country as well.
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Uh, so I think it's really important that we, uh, spend as much time as
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we can meeting with those people at their farms, uh, at their ranches, um,
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you know, listening to them firsthand so they feel they have a voice, but
14:37
also then we can really, uh, assess what, uh, what their priorities are.
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And I think that's, that's absolutely essential.
14:43
Jesse Hirsh: And, you know, in indulge me with a few anecdotes and,
14:47
and I say this only because I, I, I am burdened, uh, uh, with the, of
14:52
being in Ontario and suffering from the insularity that Ontario fosters.
14:58
And one of the things I love about this podcast is I'm learning about all
15:02
the amazing agricultural innovation and practises across the country.
15:07
I'd, I'd love to hear some anecdotes, both, you know, from your writing, but
15:10
to your point, you get the privilege of, of seeing some incredible farming
15:15
operations across the country to your other point, our media kind of ignores and
15:21
we don't celebrate and we don't elevate, uh, uh, at the stage that recognises the
15:27
amazing work that the sector is doing.
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So, help me out here, give me a couple of anecdotes that
15:33
I, I, I've really motivated,
15:34
uh, some of the work that you do.
15:38
John: Yeah, I, I think I'll give you a couple of examples that,
15:40
that actually happened recently.
15:42
And one would be, uh, the CFIA traceability rules around, uh, ranching.
15:46
Uh, if you remember, that came out about at six or eight months ago now.
15:50
Um, you know, we raised this as an issue in 2023, and, you know, no one seemed to
15:54
be really concerned except for some of the agriculture societies, rodeo groups.
15:59
Um, but then when it was released, uh, the ranchers in
16:02
my riding just went apoplectic.
16:04
They were like, what is this?
16:07
And it really showed me the importance of, of speaking to those people on
16:10
the ground because there was clearly a disconnect between ranchers, uh,
16:14
on the ground and what the Canadian Cattle Association, Alberta Beef,
16:18
Saskatchewan, uh, beef were, were assuming was the concern here in Ottawa.
16:24
There was a real disconnect.
16:25
So having those conversations with those ranchers on the ground right across
16:29
Western Canada, bringing that, you know, kind of connecting CCA and, and those,
16:33
like, it took some work, but CCA has come changed their position on, on these
16:38
traceability rules and now oppose them.
16:40
Um, and that just shows you that you can't always, you can't always assume
16:44
that the right hand knows what the left hand wants and, and vice versa.
16:47
I, I guess on the, on the outreach side, um, you know, I've, I've had
16:52
an opportunity to, to wander in a cranberry bog, which I'd never
16:55
thought I'd ever have, I've ever done.
16:58
Uh, I've been on a, a potato harvester, I've been down in my hands
17:01
and knees, uh, harvesting celery.
17:05
You know, you come from Western Canada and you kind of think, well agriculture's
17:09
tens of thousands of acres of, of grains and oil seeds and, and ranching.
17:14
But you have farmers who are toiling just as hard on a hundred
17:18
acres in a very unique, uh, very cool, uh, agriculture commodity.
17:24
Um, that's on a much, let's say a smaller land, land stamp, but.
17:29
It's just as lucrative and, and just as important to them as, as your, you
17:33
know, your 10,000 acres in Saskatchewan.
17:36
Uh, so just to compare how things are done, but the one common thread is how
17:42
much these farmers take care of their soil water management input costs.
17:48
Uh, so when, when we kind of joke that when they talk about regenerative or
17:52
sustainable agriculture, uh, you know, we take a drink because this is nothing new.
17:56
This is what farmers have been doing for generations and improving upon
18:00
that, uh, every opportunity they have because they have to, uh, if they
18:04
don't take care of their soil, their water, and their livestock, then they
18:07
don't have, don't have a livelihood.
18:09
Uh, so that's why I think it's important that elected officials get
18:11
out to the get out, literally get out to the field, see what they're doing.
18:14
It's an eyeopening experience, and you will have a much better
18:17
appreciation that farmers aren't out there destroying the land or, you
18:22
know, tossing chemicals willy-nilly.
18:24
Uh, they are trying to be as efficient and, uh, uh,
18:29
sustainable as they possibly can.
18:31
And that's not new.
18:32
And unfortunately, I think there's such a, a va a vast gap between what Canadians
18:37
think happens and what actually happens and what Canadians think happens.
18:41
I think permeates too much to the elected officials where they, uh, are
18:45
just so disconnected to what actually happens on, at the farm gate that, uh,
18:49
we have to find a way to bridge that gap.
18:52
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
18:53
And, and, and that was one of those great answers where you, you kind of
18:56
spawned four questions simultaneously and, and I'm gonna try to start them
19:01
so we can get through all of that.
19:02
W with the key, which I wanna flag to come back to, and this has been a
19:07
recurring thread on the guest we've had in this podcast, which is the
19:11
need to align the leadership that farmers bring on their farms in their
19:16
communities the regulatory environment that many of them see as hostile.
19:23
And, and, and how do we get those aligned so that that leadership
19:27
amongst the farmers is there.
19:29
but you, you said something at the start, which I've been wanting to talk
19:32
about on this podcast for a while.
19:35
I've raised the question of the traceability issue with a few guests
19:40
and they didn't know about it.
19:41
You are the first guest who, again, because it's your writing,
19:45
you understood the issue.
19:47
I, I kind of came to it 'cause I'm a social media guy.
19:51
I learn about farming, I learn about agriculture through social media.
19:56
I saw that grassroots phenomena take off and I kind of had the front row seats
20:01
with, you know, people like Lance Nielsen, who's one of the social media users,
20:06
you know, really organising around it.
20:09
And, and it struck me how was a real moment for me in terms of not
20:14
just trust and authority within the sector, a new power that farmers and
20:20
ranchers are kind of coming into.
20:23
I, I, I would love to hear your thoughts on how you kind of helped mediate
20:28
that and helped bring people together.
20:31
And to ask a pointed political question, do you think the CFIA
20:36
recognised it for the crisis?
20:39
It is.
20:40
Or do they just think this is social media nonsense, which I don't think it is.
20:44
I think to your point, there are legitimate sentiments amongst farmers
20:48
and ranchers that people can't ignore.
20:50
A a again, i'd, I'd love for you to help educate us as to what you saw
20:54
on the ground there.
20:56
John: Well, I, I think the essence of it was a, a failure of whether that's the,
21:01
the Canadian Food Inspection Agency or the Canadian Cattle Inspection Agency,
21:05
um, a failure to communicate what the proposals were all along the line.
21:11
Ev every government would say they, they, they're consulting,
21:14
but clearly they're not.
21:16
Um, because I think what really happened to Jesse, as you said,
21:18
you saw out the explosion on social media is this farm ranchers just
21:22
felt that this was thrust upon them.
21:24
They had no idea this was coming.
21:26
Whereas, you know, those, the PE bureaucrats in the offices in
21:30
Ottawa say, oh, what do you mean?
21:31
We, we talked to Canadian Cattle Association.
21:33
We, we talked to them, but that wasn't, for whatever reason, that wasn't trickling
21:37
down to the rancher on the ground.
21:40
Uh, so whether this was a, uh, a malicious change in, in, uh, regulations, I'm
21:47
not, I'm not sure that was the case.
21:49
I think what really the essence of this was is ranchers and cattlemen
21:54
felt, did not feel they had a role in building or developing these
21:57
new, uh, traceability standards.
22:00
Uh, I think if, if they, if this happened at the beginning and they,
22:03
they helped them walk them through it and say, yes, this is possible, and
22:06
no, this is, uh, this is an overlap.
22:08
Uh, I think this must, must, might have been in a very different position.
22:11
And as you said, with social media, word spreads fast and the
22:15
anger with this spread incredibly quickly like a prairie fire.
22:20
Um, and I think there's a, well, I, I know there's a lot of distrust amongst
22:27
agriculture as a whole and CFIA and rightfully so, CFIA has become a
22:32
toxic culture, which is no longer an ally of agriculture is an adversary.
22:37
It needs a massive, um, reassessment, rebuild, culture change.
22:44
Uh, so all of that, that distrust with CFIA certainly planted to the seed here.
22:49
And now we're waiting to see if, if CFA actually takes the, uh, feedback from
22:55
producers and goes back to the drawing table and comes back with something that's
22:59
more workable and includes ranchers in that process, or if they've just kind
23:05
of gone into hibernation for a few months, they will come back with the
23:08
same thing and, and, and press forward.
23:10
We'll, I think that's something we're gonna see in the next, uh, few weeks.
23:14
Jesse Hirsh: Uh, and to your point, I think the legitimate sentiment
23:18
amongst ranchers, a a a amongst farmers is not gonna go away if they
23:24
feel that they're not listened to.
23:25
So, know, the, the, the follow-up question based on what you were saying before, and,
23:31
and this is where on the future herd we get to be, we get to imagine the future.
23:35
We, we, we get to imagine that the current obstacles aren't in place.
23:40
how could we create, what, what would a regulatory environment
23:45
that was led by farmers, that they viewed that regulatory environment
23:51
as positive as enabling, rather than their legitimate perception that it
23:57
hinders them, that it's oppressive.
24:00
What would that look like?
24:01
How do we achieve that?
24:02
And, and I say this 'cause I'm getting near a consensus amongst the sector,
24:07
that the status quo is not working.
24:10
That there needs to be a rethink about the regulatory environment.
24:15
Let's try to get ahead of the curve.
24:16
What, what, what could that look like?
24:18
How, how could we create an environment where farmers felt they were being
24:21
supported r rather than being, uh,
24:24
held back.
24:26
John: Well, I think the first thing right off the, the, the top, Jesse,
24:29
is that, like I said, those producers feel like they're part of the process.
24:33
And right now, um, there just seems to be a disconnect between, uh, the
24:37
bureaucrats in Ottawa and what, uh, the folks are trying to do on the ground.
24:40
And, and you have groups like the Canadian Catalyst Association who are trying
24:44
hard to bridge those gaps, but they're, they're kind of at a, a loss as well.
24:48
The, the government will say, oh, we're, we're consulting with you.
24:51
We've had meetings.
24:52
But if you're not actually listening to what we're telling you, then
24:55
that's not really consultation.
24:56
That's you ticking a box.
24:58
So I think that's first off, is you have to genuinely include the producers as
25:02
part of that discussion in that process.
25:05
Are producers always gonna be happy with what comes out in the end?
25:08
Probably not.
25:10
But at least they can say to their colleagues and, and their friends at
25:13
the, at the coffee time in the mornings that, Hey guys, this is what's happening.
25:17
We, this is what we proposed.
25:19
Um, you know, this is what we expect to happen.
25:21
At least there's no surprises.
25:23
The second thing is CFIA has to stop being, uh, you, you know,
25:30
uh, almost anti agriculture, let's say, and be, be a partner.
25:35
And this work on ensuring that decisions that they make have
25:39
a lens of economic impact.
25:41
And food security compliance cannot be the, the cudgel that
25:45
they do on every single thing.
25:48
CFIA was in essence to be a defender of Canadian agriculture on the global
25:54
stage, but that role has reversed where it is now, um, almost embarrassed
26:00
of Canadian agriculture despite the standards that we have set.
26:04
And CFIA is imposing standards on Canadian producers that it does not impose on
26:09
imports into Canada from countries around the world that is making Canadian
26:13
agriculture much less competitive, much higher costs, and much higher frustration.
26:19
Um, you know, some of the, the ridiculous decisions that CFI has made, you just have
26:24
you on, Jesse, I'm sure you've heard it.
26:26
You just have to shake your head and going, you know, there are
26:29
big problems for us to focus on.
26:31
Let's focus on solving those big problems and these tiny little micro
26:35
issues that you are, um, slamming down on, on producers and, and, uh,
26:42
processors and entrepreneurs, uh, is just making this, this industry untenable.
26:47
And until we get that culture within CFI and, and PMRA for that matter, uh,
26:52
adjusted to be working with agriculture, uh, I think it's gonna be very difficult
26:57
for us to, to, to grab hold of those opportunities that are in front of us.
27:01
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and how much does this tie back to something you said
27:04
earlier, which is, will rephrase, as a kind of urban rural divide where a lot
27:11
of people who live in cities understand where their food comes from, don't
27:16
understand the agricultural sector, don't understand the environmental
27:20
stewardship that every farmer practises.
27:23
And then you sort of acknowledge quite rightly that that permeates up into
27:28
urban members of parliament who then have a, a, a different, arguably an
27:34
inaccurate view of how food is made that then influences the regulators.
27:41
How, how can we address that?
27:43
How can that be either reversed or challenged?
27:47
So that, as I keep trying to emphasise, the people with the knowledge and
27:52
expertise lead the process, IE the farmers and producers, than people
27:58
who are multiple levels disconnected what is actually happening and
28:03
their understanding they're in.
28:05
I can't ask all politicians this, but someone with a media background, I suspect
28:10
understands the nuance or challenges that
28:13
come with this.
28:14
John: Yeah, I think you, I think you nailed it.
28:16
Um, that is, that is a big part of the, the, the challenge that we have
28:20
is that, that misunderstanding amongst urban Canadians, even Calgary and
28:24
Edmmonton, we're not just talking about Eastern Canada or Central Canada here,
28:28
um, about where their food comes from.
28:31
And, you know, if I could solve that, uh, I certainly would.
28:35
You know, we, we have programmes like agriculture in the classroom, four H,
28:39
um, programmes the liberals have cut funding to, by the way, um, that are
28:43
trying to do some of that outreach.
28:45
But we, we, you know, as, as most western Canadians and, and rural
28:49
Canadians, we either grew up on the farm or, or very close to it.
28:53
You're a grandfather or aunts and uncles or some, we, we spent time on the farm.
28:57
We understood, we understood it.
28:58
But now so many Canadians are generations away from really having any, uh,
29:04
exposure to what happens in agriculture.
29:06
And as a result of that, you have, uh, that disconnect.
29:10
But I think what's happening right now, and not only in Canada, but I would say
29:13
Europe is a very, uh, similar example is you have governments and elected officials
29:19
listening to the very vocal minority who have agendas, uh, for lack of a better
29:25
term, these are eco activists who see everything about agriculture as wrong.
29:31
Uh, they don't understand it, they don't try to understand it.
29:34
Uh, and they are very loud, very organised, and very effective, uh, because
29:40
they, they target their, um, urban elected officials and drive that message home.
29:46
And, and that's where you see a, a lot of these policies that, uh, you know,
29:51
you kind of throw your hands up and go, like, where are you coming up with this?
29:53
This is completely inaccurate.
29:56
The second thing is, as I would say, I, I kind of describe CFIA and P or PMA
30:02
A as the children of divorced parents.
30:05
They're kind of in agriculture.
30:06
They're kind of in health.
30:08
Neither minister really wants to take account for them or
30:11
take responsibility for them.
30:13
So they know they can go to one or the other, kind of get the answer they want,
30:16
or neither one will, will deal with it.
30:19
You know, for example, I'll go to the agriculture minister and I'll
30:21
say, you know what, uh, we're strict.
30:23
Nine's a good example.
30:25
Uh, we were trying to get emergency use for strict nine in, in,
30:27
uh, west Alberta, Saskatchewan.
30:30
You go to the agriculture minister, he goes, well, you need
30:32
to go see the health minister.
30:33
Pmra is in the health.
30:34
I'll go see the health minister.
30:35
She said, I have no idea what you're talking about.
30:37
Can you go talk to the agriculture minister?
30:39
So neither one of them is taking responsibility for, for an issue, and
30:43
neither one of their agencies are either.
30:46
So I think you have to take CFIA, put it back in agriculture, have
30:50
it operated and run by people who understand this industry.
30:54
Of course, it's gonna be the regulator.
30:55
There's gonna be rules there, but at least it's gonna be operated by
30:58
people who understand the industry.
31:00
We'll work with people we'll know who to reach out to when on certain issues.
31:05
Um, and then that you have this very strong minister that will hold them
31:09
accountable, will push them to be that partner that agriculture is looking for.
31:14
So I think that's a really important step, Jesse, is, is take CFIA, put it
31:18
back in agriculture where it belongs and, and reas and restructure that agency
31:22
to be a, a partner, not an adversary.
31:26
Jesse Hirsh: And, and, and I do wanna come back to that in terms of
31:28
imagining different, uh, portfolios or different structure of government
31:32
to really empower the sector.
31:34
But I, I think a really interesting question to ask before that would be,
31:38
you know, what's your advice to sectoral leaders, both as an elected official,
31:44
but also as a recovering media executive?
31:47
How should sectoral leaders be doing the kind of tactics you just described,
31:53
which is targeting the urban mps, educating the urban mps, you know, help
31:58
expanding their literacy of not just the sector, but the needs of the sector.
32:03
'cause to your point, their opponents are doing it quite successfully.
32:07
So what would your advice be both on a strategy and tactics
32:11
level to sectoral leaders who, who clearly need to step up their
32:14
game?
32:15
John: Well, I, I would say I would give them a couple of different pieces of
32:18
advice and, and they've, they've heard this advice from me, I'll just say
32:21
that, uh, they need to work together.
32:23
There are hundreds of agriculture stakeholder groups in the country,
32:27
almost too many in my opinion.
32:29
Uh, but they have to find those four or five top priorities that they all
32:34
agree on, put your resources together, focus on those few issues, and get out
32:39
there and start communicating that they are doing a, a much better job over
32:43
the last number of years in terms of having an, uh, um, having a platform on
32:49
social media where they are getting out there and, and, and, uh, talking about
32:53
having farmers talk about what they do.
32:55
And you were seeing some, some really successful agriculture influencers
32:59
who are, uh, trying their best to get that message out there.
33:02
But as we all know, um, with algorithms, if you are not looking for
33:05
that, you are not going to find it.
33:07
Uh, so they have to find different resources, combine their, their
33:11
talents and their resources.
33:13
Uh, and like I said, just just focus on a couple of different things at a
33:17
time, whatever your top priority are.
33:19
Um, whether that's TV advertising, you know, really lobbying hard on mainstream
33:23
media to talk about some of these issues.
33:25
Um, you know, ensure agriculture in the classroom has the resources
33:30
that needs to expand that programme.
33:32
We need to start getting to kids at a very young age to explain
33:35
to them what agriculture is.
33:37
And unfortunately, uh, those groups that, uh, we have talked about on the opposite
33:41
side of this are already in the classroom.
33:43
Uh, getting the teachers to, uh, show documentaries that show agriculture
33:48
in a, in a very poor light.
33:50
Uh, we have to have the counter to that.
33:52
And, uh, for, and the answer always, Jesse, and I know you've heard
33:56
this as well, is, Hey, we're busy.
33:57
We're, we're in the field.
33:58
We're planting, we're harvesting.
34:00
We can't use that as an excuse.
34:01
Uh, if we use that as an excuse, we will lose.
34:04
Um, we have to set priorities.
34:07
Uh, and this is a priority, is educating consumers about
34:10
where their food comes from.
34:11
Um, because bad policy comes from bad information.
34:14
And that's what's happening right now.
34:16
Jesse Hirsh: And, and let me uh, dig deeper into something you said
34:20
there, which tragically you are, I think the first guest that we've had
34:24
on the podcast who, who recognises the power of social media, especially
34:30
within the agricultural sector.
34:32
And while this is certainly true, uh, amongst farmers, amongst people
34:36
active in the sector, because social media is a hotbed of, of agricultural
34:41
activity, innovation, just storytelling.
34:44
But I, I find a lot of leaders have a disdainful view of social media.
34:49
To them it's just noise and the rabble, you acknowledge, at the very
34:55
least, that it plays a role within the larger communications ecosystem.
35:00
So I, I'd love for you to double down on why you think it is a key piece of the
35:06
messaging strategy of, of making sure that we are impacting public opinion,
35:11
let alone the people who had the power in public opinion, whether in the media
35:16
or on Parliament Hill.
35:18
John: Well, it's, it's simple.
35:19
That's where, that's where people are going to get their information now.
35:22
Um, they aren't going to the mainstream media for the most, the
35:25
most part, uh, the, the boomers and, and my generation certainly
35:29
still rely on, on mainstream media.
35:30
But those, uh, decision makers, the ones that we are coming up in, into
35:36
the system, the ones that we need to influence are going to social media.
35:39
That's where they're getting their information.
35:41
Um, and agriculture is certainly, uh, tuned into that.
35:45
And you are seeing some great work by some great people who are just filming
35:49
what they're doing on the farm every day.
35:50
Um, you know, potato tie in BC is a great example of the success that he has had.
35:55
Uh, you know, a, a farm girl in, in, uh, Ontario, I believe she's there,
36:00
uh, you know, incredible success some of these people are doing.
36:03
Um, and I'm hoping it takes time, but eventually their word will
36:09
start to spread and people will start to share what they're doing.
36:12
Um, but it is an, it is an essential communications tool.
36:15
And as I said at the beginning, we use, we that must use every tool at our disposal
36:19
to reach as many people as we possibly can in whatever medium they are fo looking at.
36:24
So we have to be on all of them.
36:26
Uh, whether that's the national post, uh, CTV or um, TikTok, uh, that we
36:32
need to be where, where viewers are.
36:34
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
36:35
Right on.
36:36
Now I, I wanna come back to something that mentioned earlier, and this is
36:39
again, the kind of question that I, I, I can only ask someone as advanced
36:44
as you, you know, one of the threads I love to bring into the podcast is
36:48
getting people to talk about policy, which, which we've already been doing.
36:52
But I kind of wanna indulge your position and expertise to talk about governance.
36:58
'cause maybe to your point of having, you know, agriculture
37:02
treated as like the children of divorce or a neglected stepchild.
37:07
How, how could we, if, if you had the control of the PMO, whether you
37:13
were the Prime Minister or the Prime Minister's trusted, uh, deputy, could
37:19
we reorganise ministerial portfolios?
37:22
How could we ensure that the AgriFood sector as a kind of larger
37:27
umbrella accurately positioned to be the global player that it is?
37:34
But I think everyone in the sector feels we could be even greater,
37:38
we could be even more prosperous.
37:40
We could rise to the challenge that the world kind of geopolitical
37:45
turbulence is offering us.
37:47
What would be the right configuration, uh, of government
37:51
resources that would achieve that?
37:52
Again, we get to do this on the future herd.
37:55
'cause we can, you know, blue sky this stuff.
37:58
But I suspect you're in a position to answer this question the way other
38:02
people might say, Hey, it's above my
38:03
pay grade.
38:05
John: Well, I, I think the fir it's, it's not a hard question.
38:07
I, I think the f the fundamental answer is it's, this is a values question.
38:12
If the leader of the government, the Prime Minister, does not see agriculture
38:16
as a priority, it will not be a priority.
38:18
If you do not have a strong minister in, in charge of this portfolio, who is
38:23
going to be a defender at the cabinet table, agriculture will not be a priority.
38:28
An example is the pri Prime Minister Kearney has an economics, uh,
38:32
committee as part of, of cabinet, an economic development committee.
38:36
Agriculture's not, the agriculture minister is not
38:38
a member of that committee.
38:39
So already you are saying this, you are at the kids' table.
38:42
Um, the Agriculture Minister should be one of the top, uh, cabinet positions on
38:49
in government, uh, for the last 12 years.
38:52
It has not, I would say we haven't had that person since Jerry Ritz, who,
38:56
uh, I think all of us would agree, was a very strong agriculture minister.
39:01
Um, but to me, Jesse, it's a values question.
39:03
You don't need to restructure, uh, cabinet and government.
39:06
You just need the prime Minister who sees this as the, uh, pillar to
39:13
our economic development as it is.
39:14
And I, and I agree with you 100% Canada, it should be the envy of the world.
39:20
We have what the world needs.
39:21
We have sustainable, affordable, quality agricultural products.
39:26
We have an abundance of natural resources.
39:28
Uh, we should be the wealthiest country on the planet, period.
39:33
Uh, but we do not see those two industries as critically important, and
39:38
we continue to kind of push them back hoping for better results elsewhere.
39:43
And that's, uh, you know, the, the rest of the world is, is laughing at
39:47
us for, uh, what we've done to two, two of our key pillars when it comes
39:52
to natural resources and agriculture.
39:53
So it, this is not a where you need to tear it down.
39:57
This is a just a, this is a values question.
39:59
You need people in those positions who see agriculture as
40:02
a critical pillar to our economy.
40:05
Jesse Hirsh: So let's, let's roll that forward.
40:08
What would be, you know, what would be the kind of policies, if the values
40:12
in place, if, if you were the minister or even the Prime Minister, would
40:17
be the kind of policy initiatives?
40:18
What would be the kind of rallying points that, that, to your point,
40:22
would allow us to actualize on our potential and, and be, if not the,
40:28
one of the wealthiest countries in the
40:29
world?
40:30
John: Well, I think the first thing that they, they should, uh, a
40:33
government should do, and, uh, this government has the opportunity to do it.
40:37
We've, we've talked about it.
40:38
We, we did a pretty extensive study on this at agriculture committee
40:41
last, our first, first, uh, job one when we came back after the last
40:45
election was, uh, harmonisation of regulations and red tape production.
40:50
So the first thing this government could do that would send a very
40:52
strong message to agriculture is harmonisation of regulations.
40:56
We actually have a private members' bill on the table right now
40:58
through my colleague David Betti.
41:00
Uh, basically what this does is any agricultural product, veterinary
41:05
medicine, crop protection product, uh, that is being used in, in another
41:09
country of which we as a trusted partner.
41:12
Uh, if that product wants to be used in Canada, if it's used in two other
41:17
trusted jurisdictions, the agriculture minister would have to give it, uh,
41:20
provisional approval within 90 days to use that product here in Canada.
41:24
So the CFIA and the PMRA are not redoing the science all from the beginning.
41:29
You have to take their research.
41:30
You can still review it parallel, but that product would be
41:33
able to be used in Canada.
41:35
That would send a very strong message to Canadian producers that you have
41:39
a government that's on your side, a government that recognises the
41:42
obstacles that you are dealing with.
41:44
Where we are continuing to fall, I think we are something like 35 out of
41:50
50 country, no, it's less than that.
41:51
35 out of 42 countries in the OECD in terms of, uh, regulatory
41:56
burden on agriculture and falling.
41:58
Uh, this would send a very strong message that we recognise this, we are going to
42:02
fix this, and here's one way we can do it.
42:04
Um, the liberal government's gonna be coming out with a, uh, food security
42:08
strategy in the next few weeks.
42:10
We've, we've kind of heard, uh, some rumours that it's on, on the way.
42:14
Include some of these things in that strategy and send that message to, to
42:17
producers that yes, we, we are listening.
42:20
We see the, the, the challenges you have and, and we are going to act.
42:24
Um, but thus far we haven't seen that.
42:26
Uh, you know, the, another one that's coming up right now is the Mercury
42:30
Trader deal, A trade deal with South American countries, Brazil and Argentina.
42:34
Columbia is the main ones.
42:35
Um, Canadian agriculture has raised the alarm on this, that, especially beef,
42:39
pork and poultry producers that you're gonna be opening Canadian market to, uh,
42:44
products that don't meet our standards, do not meet our, uh, animal health regime.
42:49
Traceability, you could be opening us to a foot mouth disease, African
42:54
swine fever, uh, BSE, uh, and yet the government is ploughing ahead.
42:58
It's gonna sign this agreement in a couple of weeks.
43:01
So there's another example of agriculture just not being listened to.
43:04
It's not that we're against free trade agriculture relies on free
43:07
trade, but doesn't mean you have to have trade with everyone,
43:10
especially if it's not reciprocal.
43:12
Uh, those countries have, um, allow about 1% of, of livestock
43:17
imports into their countries.
43:19
Meanwhile, 30% of, uh, domestic consumption of beef in Canada is imported.
43:25
So we've already done our part.
43:26
Um, but you need to be selective on which partners you, you want to agree
43:31
with instead of chasing new markets.
43:33
Why don't we look at the Canada European free trade Agreement, CA, which there
43:38
are numerous non tariff trade barriers that are been put in place, blocking
43:41
Canadian agriculture commodities.
43:43
Let's focus on fixing the ones that we already have, open those
43:47
markets to our full capabilities before, uh, chasing, chasing
43:51
others that are gonna be a problem.
43:53
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and I appreciate you brought up the, the merker
43:56
deal only because I, I have seen to your point, a lot of concern,
44:00
widespread concern in the sector.
44:02
And it, and it kind of raises a very political question, are, are you concerned
44:07
that in the government's attempt to try to address affordability, that
44:13
their ignorance or disconnect with the sector might mean that set affordability
44:20
comes at the sector's expense?
44:22
IE if you're importing cheap food that undercuts the sector's ability to produce
44:28
food, that's clearly not a net positive.
44:32
And so I'll add to that a second question.
44:35
To your ver very insightful point, not all trade is equal.
44:41
And we're in a world in which trade agreements are increasingly
44:45
becoming almost bilateral, although to your point, even the
44:48
multilateral have their complications.
44:51
How do we address that stuff?
44:53
Especially given the kind of the ignorance, for lack of a better
44:56
word, that we've acknowledged already, that exists amongst much,
45:00
much of the urban political class.
45:03
Like if they think they're doing the right thing in terms of affordability,
45:07
but actually sabotaging our own sector, how do we prevent that?
45:11
How, how do we communicate that effectively given the nuance
45:15
it requires and the kind of soundbite nature of our media
45:19
world?
45:20
John: Well, I think first off, Jesse, it's very hypocritical of the
45:24
liberal government to be ploughing ahead with this trade agreement.
45:26
On one hand, they're saying, we need to buy Canadian.
45:29
Buy Canadian.
45:30
We need to be self-sufficient.
45:31
Let's support Canadian products, Canadian industry.
45:34
On the other hand, you are gonna sign a free trade agreement, which
45:36
as you said, will undermine what are the pillars of our, of our economy,
45:40
which is our agriculture industry.
45:42
Um, this will, this is certainly focused on beef, pork, and poultry right now,
45:46
but there are other commodities that could certainly, could be challenged.
45:49
The United States is seeing the area of this with Brazil flooding its
45:52
market with, uh, corn and sugar.
45:54
Um, you know, the United States was looking at this as well until American
45:59
ranchers basically lit their hair on fire saying, if you start bringing
46:02
in a bunch of cheap Argentinian beef, this will destroy our industry.
46:05
So even President Trump backed off and he said, okay, I, I, listen, we're not
46:08
gonna, we're not gonna go down this road.
46:10
We are doing the opposite.
46:12
Despite the concerns that are being raised by our industry, we're, we're going ahead.
46:16
So you, you can't on one hand tell consumers when you go to the grocery
46:19
store, look for that Canadian flag, buy that Canadian product, and on
46:23
the other hand, start bringing in a bunch of, uh, low quality, uh, uh,
46:29
international imports that, that are gonna undermine our own Canadian products.
46:33
So that, that is the problem.
46:35
And I'm not sure if the, the liberals are actually focused on affordability here.
46:39
I think this is two things for the liberals, A this is gonna
46:42
give them a great media soundbite.
46:44
They say, Hey, look at us.
46:44
We've signed another trade deal with the fifth largest trading block in the world.
46:49
And it gives 'em another chance to poke Donald Trump in the eye.
46:52
Um, they love nothing more than making sure that Trump is, is the boogieman.
46:56
And anytime they can kind of stick it to him a little bit, um, 'cause the
46:59
United States, Jesse, as you may know, has flagged this agreement as a problem.
47:04
They do not wanna see the, that cheap, low quality product coming
47:08
into the United States through the back door, through Canada.
47:11
So, once again, our most important trading partner, the trading partner
47:15
that our agriculture industry is fully integrated with, has told us, Hey,
47:21
uh, we see this as a big problem.
47:23
Uh, you want to keep trading with us in the way that we do agriculturally.
47:26
Uh, you better not be signing this agreement, but they're gonna go ahead
47:30
and do it anyway because it's gonna look good in the media for about two days.
47:33
Uh, meanwhile, Canadian producers are gonna be suffering, uh,
47:36
through this as we've already seen.
47:39
Uh, with the uk for example, UK beef imports into Canada we're up almost 700%.
47:45
Uh, beef exports into the UK are at zero, same as pork.
47:49
Uh, so the liberal government is not defending Canadian agriculture
47:53
producers on the global market.
47:55
They're capitulating.
47:56
Uh, and, and we, and again, to your point, the fundamental issue
48:00
here is those urban voters or those decision makers really don't see it.
48:04
They don't understand the consequences of it.
48:06
They are so far away from it.
48:08
Um, you know, those of us who represent rural parts of the country, uh, we are the
48:12
ones who are, uh, there at the forefront defending, uh, defending this industry
48:16
as, as wholeheartedly as we possibly can.
48:19
Um, but I, I think that's really the two, two issues that are at stake here is.
48:23
Um, this is gonna be a great media soundbite for, for the Carney
48:27
liberals, despite the devastating consequences that it could have
48:30
on, uh, on Canadian producers.
48:33
And it's another opportunity then for them to kind of stick it to
48:35
Donald Trump despite the warning United States has given Canada, uh,
48:39
should they sign this agreement?
48:41
Jesse Hirsh: I also think it's significant to your point, that it was a, a, a,
48:46
a large number of American ranchers who really sounded the alarm on, on
48:51
the impact that this particular trade deal would have, and, and credit to
48:55
the Trump administration that they heard that and, and, and responded.
49:00
It, it strikes me that we, we have a problem here in Canada that our,
49:04
our ranchers don't have the same political weight, at least in Ottawa.
49:08
They, they certainly do in Alberta.
49:11
How, how do we get Canadian rural voices, whether agricultural or otherwise,
49:18
to have greater influence and, and power in our public conversation.
49:24
I think part of that, as we've sort of alluded to, is a media problem, but I,
49:30
I, I suspect you're not the only member of Parliament who really feels that their
49:35
constituents are not getting a fair shake.
49:38
How do we address that and is that an opportunity for the agricultural
49:42
sector to help champion because of the, the benefit they would have in
49:47
rural voices having more influence in, in ultimately in policy?
49:51
John: Well, I, I think when they do focus their message, they, they are effective.
49:55
And, you know, we look at, we talked about the traceability rules.
49:58
Um, you know, CFIA did pause that.
50:00
Uh, we have had success in them, them pausing some thing things in the past.
50:04
The P two plastic span is, is another one where industry came together.
50:08
Uh, the, uh, our bill 2, 3, 4, uh, to eliminate the carbon
50:13
consumer carbon tax on farm fuels.
50:15
Every agriculture group came together and it was very successful.
50:18
Uh, I think on these existential threats, uh, the different commodity groups need
50:23
to find common ground and work together.
50:25
And when they do, they have a very powerful and effective voice.
50:29
But unfortunately, government can be very effective in divide and conquer as well.
50:34
Uh, the liberals are experts at it.
50:36
They will go to the different groups and they will, they know, they will
50:39
not come to a consensus and they'll say, Hey, you know, we consulted.
50:43
You guys could come to an agreement, so we're gonna do X instead of y.
50:47
Uh, the commodity groups, uh, on these times of, of real threats
50:51
need to, to come together.
50:52
And I know they do.
50:53
I know they do.
50:54
Um, and, and they need to be loud and they need to be aggressive sometimes.
50:59
'cause the other groups, as you said, we said at the beginning, are they are
51:01
very effective and, uh, very aggressive.
51:04
Uh, so we will, I, I know the Canadian Cattle Association is gonna be working
51:07
very hard with its partners trying to gain, um, allies on the Mercer, uh, deal.
51:13
We, we have been working very closely with them, and they've,
51:15
they've been really effective.
51:17
And the second thing is, is they, they, agriculture groups are all not always
51:21
just meeting with, uh, rural mps.
51:23
They're meeting with everyone from all the different parties.
51:25
And I, I think that's a really smart strategy, is they need to make sure
51:28
that everyone hears, uh, what the consequences of the impacts are.
51:33
And they bring solutions, which I think is also really important
51:36
that they, they aren't just coming here and, and, uh, and complaining.
51:39
They're coming with real, tangible, uh, solutions to their problems, which I think
51:44
is, uh, critically important as well.
51:46
And we have, we have a really good group on the agriculture committee.
51:49
Uh, I think all of us, uh, represent rural writings that, that will be
51:53
impacted by some of these decisions.
51:55
Uh, so that, that's helpful if the Minister and Cabinet will listen to
51:59
the recommendations that we bring forward from the agriculture committee.
52:02
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
52:02
And I am conscious that we're, we're just about out of time because I'm kind
52:07
of tempted to spend another hour just talking about the, the, the tactics of
52:11
how to get everyone on the same page.
52:13
'cause that is a recurring desire amongst the sector.
52:16
Sometimes easy, sometimes not.
52:19
the second last question I always throw to the guest is, is there anything
52:23
we haven't talked about that, that you think is really important to
52:26
mention, especially in the context of, of championing Canada's agricultural
52:31
sector?
52:32
John: Well, I don't know if there's anything that we, we haven't talked about.
52:35
I think, uh, the, the, the big message I would want for people to, uh, to get
52:40
from this is, you know, talk to your neighbours, talk to your family who
52:44
live in urban centres, or maybe don't under, you know, the people who are
52:48
gonna be listening to this podcast, Jesse, obviously understand what
52:50
we're talking about for the most part.
52:52
Um, but I would really encourage them to, to try and share their message
52:56
in any opportunity that they have.
52:58
Um, don't, don't be scared to have a little bit of a heated
53:00
discussion with someone.
53:02
Um, stand up for what we believe in and, and we believe in the, uh,
53:06
uh, the, the tradition, the values, uh, the innovation, uh, of Canadian
53:14
agriculture and, and food production.
53:16
And I would always, I always highlight that, Jesse, is, is talk about it as a,
53:19
as a, in the frame of food production.
53:22
I don't think people understand what agriculture is, but they certainly
53:25
understand the food on their table.
53:27
And these farmers and pro processors, ranchers are producing
53:30
the food that's on your table.
53:32
And I think that is an important distinction to make.
53:34
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
53:35
And it's similar to advice I give to city people, which
53:38
is make friends with a farmer, which now thanks to social
53:41
John: right.
53:41
Yes.
53:42
Jesse Hirsh: pretty easy.
53:44
you know, the last question
53:46
John: and if you ask.
53:47
So I'll just say if, if you ask a farmer to come and visit, they
53:50
will be happy to show you around.
53:52
Jesse Hirsh: A hundred percent and you'll experience things that you will
53:56
never experience in a city.
53:58
uh, the last question
54:00
John: That's right.
54:00
Jesse Hirsh: guess I is kind of the shout out.
54:03
It, it, it's really who are the leaders who inspire you?
54:06
Who, who are the people that you think the rest of us, uh, should
54:10
be tooting into or following you?
54:12
You dropped a few names earlier in terms of social media influences,
54:17
but who, who are the folks that you look up to that you think deserve
54:20
more attention?
54:22
John: Oh man, that's really gonna be a challenge.
54:24
'cause like I said, you know, my riding, I've got some of the incredible
54:28
agriculture leaders, uh, you know, in the world, not just Canada.
54:32
Uh, so, you know, I, I started a bit of an agriculture round table of
54:36
representatives from, just from my riding.
54:39
And the first time that we sat down with everybody, I kinda looked around
54:42
the room and I'm like, oh my gosh.
54:43
I am, I am totally blessed to be representing these people and I
54:47
could learn so much from them.
54:48
You know, uh, Kim McConnell from the founder of Ad Farm, for example,
54:52
uh, Ted Menzies, former President of Crop Life, my predecessor, uh, you
54:56
know, Roy Newman, a a very prominent, uh, grain farmer in, in Blackie.
55:01
Uh, you know, you know Sherry Copthorne Barnes now the Vice President of
55:04
Calgary Stampede a a rancher in, uh, uh, the western part of my riding.
55:10
You know, these are, these are incredible people who do incredible things and,
55:13
you know, first and foremost, they're, they're farmers and ranchers and, but
55:16
they have taken on, uh, incredible leadership roles, uh, around the world.
55:21
But, uh, you know, I, I have those types of people that I reach out to right across
55:25
Canada, and I'm, I'm very blessed to, to call them friends and, and, uh, and
55:30
call them mentors in one way or another.
55:31
But, uh, I think most, most importantly, uh, I rely on them for, for good
55:37
information and honest conversations.
55:39
Um, they, what I love about what I love about a farmer is they tell
55:44
you that God's honest truth, uh, they are not gonna sugarcoat it.
55:47
If you are full of beans, they're gonna tell you you're full of beans.
55:50
And, uh, I think that's really beneficial to me as an elected official
55:54
and, uh, hopefully a policy maker, a decision maker that, uh, I'm getting,
55:59
I'm getting the unvarnished truth.
56:01
And they don't tell you just what you, they think you want to hear.
56:03
Jesse Hirsh: And you know, to be honest, John, the, the proof has been
56:07
in this podcast episode because I am a hundred percent allergic to bullshit.
56:11
And you brought none.
56:13
This was rare for a politician perhaps,
56:17
John: Well.
56:17
Jesse Hirsh: for someone who, to your point, is held accountable by
56:20
farmers and ranchers.
56:22
John: Well, I, I, Jesse, now that I know, I could said bullshit, I would've said
56:25
it a long time ago, but, uh, I never, I never consider myself a politician.
56:30
And I think, uh, I, I just, I'm, I represent my riding.
56:34
Uh, I don't think I've ever changed.
56:36
And, uh, my friends and neighbours, uh, would certainly give me an earful if
56:40
they thought my head was getting too big.
56:42
Uh, so I, I appreciate, I appreciate that, that maybe this
56:46
is a bit of a different tone.
56:47
Uh, but I can assure you this is the tone that I, I have
56:51
in, in all my conversations.
56:53
Uh, I don't, you know, I don't think it, uh, it helps us at
56:57
all if we are just filling each other full of, uh, of bullshit.
57:00
We, we need to be honest with one another.
57:02
And that's how hopefully, uh, those changes that we've talked about today
57:06
can actually come through fruition.
57:07
And, uh, you know, I, I am really optimistic, I have to say, I always try
57:12
and finish with this, that, you know, although we've talked about some real big
57:15
concerns, I am truly optimistic of the future of Canadian agriculture because of
57:20
the potential that we have, because of the people who are involved in that industry.
57:24
Some of those names we, we threw out here today.
57:26
But, uh, the young people who are getting involved in agriculture, that
57:30
entrepreneurial spirit, that, that openness to new ideas so exciting.
57:35
The one thing that we have to do is we have to make sure those young people
57:39
see Canadian agriculture and food production as a viable career choice
57:44
with a, a real future to grow and thrive.
57:47
Uh, and I think if we can achieve that, um, the potential for Canadian
57:51
agriculture is, is really unmatched.
57:54
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
57:55
Fantastic.
57:56
Thank you, John.
57:58
what I really enjoyed about this conversation was how
58:01
quickly it moved past slogans.
58:03
Food security can sound like something that belongs in a strategy document.
58:08
Agricultural innovation can sound like something that belongs
58:11
in a funding announcement.
58:13
And consultation can sound like something that already happened
58:16
because somebody held a meeting.
58:19
But today's episode with John really brought those words back down to
58:23
Earth and speaks to the kind of integrity and commitment that we
58:27
expect of our elected officials.
58:30
And to which John, I think, to his credit, lives up to, you know, to the rancher,
58:35
trying to understand a new rule to the farmer, waiting for a product approval
58:40
to the producer, wondering whether Ottawa understands the cost of delay
58:44
to the next generation deciding whether agriculture still looks like a future
58:49
worth building in this context, I think John's argument's pretty direct Canadian
58:55
agriculture does not lack ambition.
58:58
It does not lack talent.
58:59
It does not lack people willing to work, adapt, take risks, and feed this country.
59:04
No.
59:05
What it needs is to be taken seriously by folks in cities,
59:09
by people who make decisions.
59:11
And that means listening before regulating.
59:14
It means treating producers as partners in food security
59:18
rather than obstacles to policy.
59:21
It means recognising that the knowledge closest to the land
59:24
is not a special interest.
59:26
Quite the opposite.
59:28
It's a form of national intelligence, and maybe most of all, it means
59:32
agriculture has to keep finding its voice in Ottawa, in the media, online,
59:38
and in the everyday conversations where Canadians learn where their food comes
59:42
from and who's actually producing it.
59:46
'cause the future of food will not be built by people talking
59:49
about farmers or around farmers.
59:53
It'll be built by people willing to listen to them.
59:56
And that's really what we seek to do here in the future herd.
1:00:00
It's not just hear from people like John, but from people like yourself.
1:00:04
So if there's a subject, a topic, an issue that you'd like us to dig deeper into,
1:00:10
send us an email, or better yet, check out our website where you could find that
1:00:15
email address as well as all the episodes and knowledge and briefs that we put out
1:00:22
to help you understand our AgriFood sector so it can truly be the best in the world.
1:00:29
I'm Jesse Hirsch.
1:00:31
We'll see you soon here on the Future Herd.