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310. A New Era: 12x Olympic Medalist Natalie Coughlin On Life Beyond The Pool & The Power Of Positivity · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

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  Speaker 1: Challenges and obstacles are learning opportunities if you give them
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  Speaker 1: the space to be a learning opportunity.
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  Speaker 2: What's going on, everyone, Emily Abadi Here You are listening
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  Speaker 2: to the season eighteen premiere of Hurdle, a wellness focused
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  Speaker 2: podcast where I talk to inspirational people about everything from
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  Speaker 2: their highest highs and toughest moments to essential tips on
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  Speaker 2: how to live a healthier, happier, more motivated life. We
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  Speaker 2: all go through our fair share of hurdles. My goal
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  Speaker 2: through these discussions is to empower you to better navigate
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  Speaker 2: yours and move with intention so that you can stride
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  Speaker 2: towards your own big potential and of course, have some
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  Speaker 2: fun along the way.
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  Speaker 3: Bonjour.
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  Speaker 2: I am returning today from the most remarkable two weeks
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  Speaker 2: in Paris, and I could not be more excited about
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  Speaker 2: the unbelievable conversations that will be coming to the podcast
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  Speaker 2: throughout this season. From this once in a lifetime opportunity,
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  Speaker 2: I was on the ground in an unbelievable space inside
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  Speaker 2: of Athleta's Paris creator Hub studio dedicated to all things Hurdle,
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  Speaker 2: empowering women and embracing the power of she During this
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  Speaker 2: epic moment in women's sports. I truly wouldn't have been
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  Speaker 2: able to create as much content as I did without
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  Speaker 2: the support of Athleta.
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  Speaker 3: So the team there, you know who you are.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you from the bottom of my heart for really
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  Speaker 2: empowering me to go after my wildest dreams. This season
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  Speaker 2: premiere episode is featuring the ever lovely twelve time Olympic
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  Speaker 2: medalist Natalie Coughlin, and wow, what unbelievable story she truly has.
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  Speaker 2: While attending the University of California at Berkeley, she became
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  Speaker 2: the first woman ever to when one hundred meter backstroke
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  Speaker 2: in less than one minute, ten days before her twentieth
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  Speaker 2: birthday in two thousand and two. Today, her experience at
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  Speaker 2: this year's Games looked wildly different than when she was
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  Speaker 2: competing back in two thousand and eight. She became the
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  Speaker 2: first US female athlete in modern day Olympic history to
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  Speaker 2: win six medals in one Olympiad.
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  Speaker 3: She was also, of note, the.
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  Speaker 2: First woman to ever win one hundred meter backstroke gold
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  Speaker 2: in two consecutive Olympics. But needless to say, Natalie is
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  Speaker 2: such a force. I was so honored to have the
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  Speaker 2: opportunity to sit down with her, But we also dive
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  Speaker 2: into the now. She talks to me about raising her
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  Speaker 2: two beautiful children, what excites her these days, and reflects
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  Speaker 2: on the transition of full time athlete to this next chapter. Plus,
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  Speaker 2: she gives me the lowdown on her winery. I can
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  Speaker 2: say I've tried the wine. It's absolutely amazing. And we
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  Speaker 2: chat about themes like imposter syndrome, goal setting, and so
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  Speaker 2: much more. Make sure, if you're not yet following along
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  Speaker 2: with the show on social you get on that I'm
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: over at Hurdle Podcast and over directly at Emily a Body,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: and make sure you're subscribed to the weekly Hurdle newsletter.
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  Speaker 2: In there, you'll get so much of the same things
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  Speaker 2: you love from the show, inspiration, motivation, plus gear picks,
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  Speaker 2: things that I'm really digging right now, special offers, and more.
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  Speaker 2: The link to subscribe is in the show notes. With that,
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  Speaker 2: let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling.
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  Speaker 3: Today. I'm sitting down with Natalie Coughlin. How are you
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  Speaker 3: doing today?
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  Speaker 4: I'm great. It's good to see you, Emily.
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  Speaker 3: It is so good to see you again.
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  Speaker 2: We are here in Paris, in this beautiful space provided
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  Speaker 2: by Athleta, and I'm feeling excited, but.
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  Speaker 3: I want to know more than that.
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  Speaker 2: How are you feeling after attending your first ever opening ceremony?
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  Speaker 1: This has been pretty awesome, you know, Like I competed
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  Speaker 1: in three Olympic Games, but I never went to opening ceremonies,
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  Speaker 1: and this is the first Olympic Games that I'm here
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  Speaker 1: as a spectator, so I'm really excited taking it all in.
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  Speaker 1: I can't wait to go back to the swimming. I
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  Speaker 1: can't wait to see Simon. I've never seen gymnastics in person,
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  Speaker 1: so this has been a pretty exciting week so far.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, do you feel a little bit of fomo in
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  Speaker 2: this scenario or do you feel really good about where
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  Speaker 2: you are now?
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  Speaker 1: You know, ninety percent, I feel really good because I
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  Speaker 1: got the competition out of my system. You know, I
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  Speaker 1: don't miss the pressure of the Olympic Games. But I
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  Speaker 1: will say waiting in line for opening ceremonies and not
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  Speaker 1: having a credential, not being able to go wherever I wanted,
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  Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this is this is how the
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  Speaker 1: up the side lives. This is It was a little
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  Speaker 1: bit startling at first, but I've gotten used to waiting
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  Speaker 1: my time in line.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you, as you mentioned, have been to your fair
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  Speaker 2: share of Olympics, three different Olympics, twelve time metalist.
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  Speaker 3: Does that ever get old?
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  Speaker 4: It doesn't, So thank you.
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, let me give you your flowers to start
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  Speaker 2: this off. Yeah, I mean, what an unbelievable run that
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  Speaker 2: you've had in the pool. I want to start off
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  Speaker 2: today by learning a little bit about what interested you
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  Speaker 2: by getting into the pool in the first place.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So my parents were just responsible parents and put
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  Speaker 1: me into swim lessons at a really young age because
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  Speaker 1: we had a pool in our backyard, and so it
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  Speaker 1: is the responsibility of all parents out there to put
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  Speaker 1: their kids into swim lessons for water safety purposes, and
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  Speaker 1: that's what my parents did. And you know, I did
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  Speaker 1: gymnastics and I tried some other sports as a young kid,
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  Speaker 1: but I was just much more at home in the water,
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  Speaker 1: and I was just much much more natural in the water.
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  Speaker 1: I wasn't I wasn't good by any stretch of the
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  Speaker 1: means at first, but I was much better than I
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  Speaker 1: was at gymnastics and other sports.
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  Speaker 4: So that's how I stated it.
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  Speaker 2: Wow, okay, so water safety was your gateway, yeah, into swimming.
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  Speaker 2: You know, that's so funny that you say that I
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  Speaker 2: have a just over three year old cousin right now
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  Speaker 2: and she's doing like one on one swim lessons in
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  Speaker 2: their backyard because they have this pool and you've got
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  Speaker 2: to do it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, not to be a downer, but it is
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  Speaker 1: the number one cause of accidental death and kids under five.
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  Speaker 1: So it is the responsibility of parents out there to
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  Speaker 1: take get their kids water safe, learn all the measures
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  Speaker 1: to take, and so it's really really important.
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  Speaker 2: What's the what's the training called when you literally like
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  Speaker 2: throw your baby into the pool and they flip over.
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  Speaker 1: Infant safety something ISL it stands for UH or the
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  Speaker 1: acronym is or yeah, the initials are ISL. It's just
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  Speaker 1: infint safety something. But we didn't do that. That's a
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  Speaker 1: little addressive. But we did get my kids. My son,
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  Speaker 1: he was a really big baby and we said he
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  Speaker 1: was six months when he was three months, but.
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  Speaker 3: So no one judged.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, yeah, no, he's six months. He's like,
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  Speaker 1: we totally lied about his age. But yeah, So we
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  Speaker 1: got both kids into the pool at very very young
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  Speaker 1: ages and now they're both like pretty good swimmers.
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  Speaker 4: So I feel good about it.
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  Speaker 3: Well, we'll talk about motherhood in just a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: But going back to your journey within the pool, talk
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  Speaker 2: to me a little bit about when it went from Okay,
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  Speaker 2: we're doing these swim lessons because it's something that's good
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  Speaker 2: for us, it's smart for us, it's responsible for us.
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  Speaker 2: So then transitioning into oh, I really like this and
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  Speaker 2: I want to do more than just paddle around the
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  Speaker 2: backyard pool.
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  Speaker 4: Well, funny you say that.
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  Speaker 1: When I was six was when I joined the swim team,
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  Speaker 1: and that also coincided, not to date myself, with the
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  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight Olympics, and that's when I watched the
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  Speaker 1: Olympics for the first time, and I watched Janet Evans
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  Speaker 1: and Matt beyondy whin they're gold medals for the US,
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  Speaker 1: And you know, the next the next week in practice,
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  Speaker 1: my friends and I were all saying, I want to
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  Speaker 1: go to the Olympics someday, and so that.
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  Speaker 4: Became, you know, the shoot for the moon type of goal.
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  Speaker 1: Had no idea what going to the Olympics really even meant,
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  Speaker 1: but I knew it was really important and that's the
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  Speaker 1: pinnacle of our sport. So that's when it became a goal.
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  Speaker 1: It wasn't a reality yet, but it was definitely a goal.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love a moonshot goal.
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  Speaker 2: And I think it speaks to your love of sport
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  Speaker 2: that you knew from a young age. You're like, hey,
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  Speaker 2: not only does this feel good, but I would just
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  Speaker 2: love to do it on that kind of level.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so fun.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, so we say maybe we could go to
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  Speaker 2: the Olympics one day, But still a lot happens between
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  Speaker 2: when you say, all right, I'm going to join a
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  Speaker 2: swim team too.
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  Speaker 3: No, I'm going to swim at this level right in
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  Speaker 3: the Olympics.
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  Speaker 2: So from a competitive POV, did you excel early on
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  Speaker 2: as well?
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  Speaker 1: I was pretty I was decent as like a nine
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  Speaker 1: to ten age group swimmer. I was, you know, a
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  Speaker 1: bigger fish in a little pond type thing. Where I
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  Speaker 1: grew up in Valeo and Benetia, California, So I was
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  Speaker 1: in like a smaller community and I excelled in that community.
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  Speaker 1: And when I was thirteen, I started swimming in the
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  Speaker 1: East Bay of California, and that's when I was really
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  Speaker 1: exposed to faster swimming. And when I was thirteen was
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  Speaker 1: really the year that everything turned around for me. I
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  Speaker 1: went to Junior Nationals for the first time, the Nationals
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  Speaker 1: and then I actually finaled at Nationals at age thirteen,
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  Speaker 1: and I will never forget it was the tune in
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  Speaker 1: freestyle is in Fort Lauderdale and stepping out to the blocks.
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  Speaker 1: I was in lane one and I remember the announcer saying,
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  Speaker 1: and in lane.
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  Speaker 4: One thirteen year old Natalie Coughlin. And it was amazing.
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  Speaker 4: And of course I choked and had a terrible race.
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  Speaker 1: But I was there and that was when it became
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  Speaker 1: a tangible goal. Making the Olympics became a tangible goal
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  Speaker 1: when I was thirteen, and that's when I really learned
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  Speaker 1: how Olympic trials work and what the path to the
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  Speaker 1: Olympics would look like.
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  Speaker 2: The sentence making the Olympics became a tangible goal when
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  Speaker 2: I was thirteen. I have chills when you say that.
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  Speaker 2: That is just the most beautiful thing. At that age,
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  Speaker 2: just start to have an understanding that early on of
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  Speaker 2: your own potential. That's something that most people don't come
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  Speaker 2: into until much later, lateeens, early twenties.
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  Speaker 3: Hell, I know some.
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  Speaker 2: People in their mid thirties now that are still trying
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  Speaker 2: to figure that out. Yeah, so such a special sentence.
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  Speaker 2: Knowing that moment that you described the I started to
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  Speaker 2: realize what fast swimming could feel like. I started to
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  Speaker 2: realize what I was capable of. There is a switch
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  Speaker 2: the first time that you do that, Yeah, that you
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  Speaker 2: get into this place within your body that it's like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: we just never pushed in this way before.
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  Speaker 3: Do you remember that switch? That next third year.
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  Speaker 1: I just remember were laying out the plan for Okay,
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  Speaker 1: this is what the next four years is going to
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  Speaker 1: look like. So it was Okay, we're going to go
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  Speaker 1: to nationals here and then Olympic Trials will be you
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  Speaker 1: know this time, and I'll probably swim these events. So
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  Speaker 1: it was really mapping out the different stages of my
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  Speaker 1: goal and you know, goal setting is such an important thing,
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  Speaker 1: like knowing, Okay, I have this big thing that I
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  Speaker 1: want to achieve, and so what is the roadmap there
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  Speaker 1: and like kind of figuring that out. Yeah, I was
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  Speaker 1: able to start to figure that out at a young
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  Speaker 1: age and just kind of you know, check things off
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  Speaker 1: the box. And it was just such a nice way
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  Speaker 1: to have that focus and know exactly like how I
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  Speaker 1: need to get there.
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  Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about goal setting then,
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  Speaker 2: because I think this is something that so many individuals
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  Speaker 2: not only practice in their own lives, but could also
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: admittedly maybe use a few tips on. So for goal setting,
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  Speaker 2: you have this big goal and go to the Olympics
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  Speaker 2: one day.
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  Speaker 3: That's a big goal, huge goal.
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  Speaker 2: So at thirteen, do you have the awareness of breaking
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  Speaker 2: that goal down into smaller, more achievable wins or is
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  Speaker 2: that something that you learn later on.
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  Speaker 1: No, that's definitely that's exactly how you do it, is
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  Speaker 1: you break it into manageable chunks. You know, it's like
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: how do you eat an elephant? Like one bite at
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a time. You know, I'm not going to eat enough,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: but I ever heard that. I've heard that say it
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  Speaker 1: or like eat a Cadillac, like you just one at
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  Speaker 1: a time, Like you.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Know, I'm down for croissants.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know, like I'm not going to
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: eat an elephant, but I've heard that idiom before. I'm like,
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  Speaker 1: oh that sticks in your brain, Okay, But yeah, you
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  Speaker 1: just take things one little chunk at a time. So yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I looked at the four years and broke it into years,
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  Speaker 1: and then you break it into seasons within that year,
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  Speaker 1: and then you break it into what competitions you're going
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  Speaker 1: to go to. And you know, I had people along
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  Speaker 1: the way helping me do that. That's really how you
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  Speaker 1: how you set a goal is you have little stepping
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  Speaker 1: stone goals along the way to that big, big goal.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that something you mentioned here about I
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  Speaker 2: had people helping me along the way another really important takeaway. Right,
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  Speaker 2: the biggest and the best, you know they are putting
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  Speaker 2: in the effort. Yes, but they also understand that to
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: get to where you want to be, it is okay
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  Speaker 2: to ask for help along the way. Yes, especially at
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  Speaker 2: such a young age. Right, there are so many things
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  Speaker 2: that you cannot actually do on your own. You need
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  Speaker 2: the support of family, friends, coaches, et cetera.
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  Speaker 3: You can't drive yourself around at thirteen.
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  Speaker 4: No, I couldn't.
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  Speaker 1: I had older friends that all drove me around in
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  Speaker 1: addition to my parents. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: No, critical, And I love the way that you spoke
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  Speaker 2: about breaking down these larger goals into such smaller parts.
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  Speaker 2: So in that process, whether it be then or even now,
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  Speaker 2: when you set goals, do you do all.
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  Speaker 3: Of that mapping at the very beginning? Okay?
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  Speaker 1: I did, And back then I had a log book.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I was like a big fan. I mean, there were
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: no other options of other than manually writing everything. But
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: after every practice I would write my workout down. I
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: would write the highlights, what was going through my head,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: things I could improve, and then after races, I would
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: do the same thing. And I had all these you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: spiral notebooks that added up over time, and that was
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: just kind of you know, I know you're really into journaling.
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  Speaker 1: That was a really good way for me to evaluate
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  Speaker 1: where I was along that path.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I love hearing you talk about the reflection piece, understanding
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  Speaker 2: that in order to get to where you want to be,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: recognizing and acknowledging your feelings also is very important. So
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: it wasn't just like this is the workout, this is
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: how it's went it went. It was this is the workout,
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  Speaker 2: this is how it went, and this is how I felt.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And as I got older and more mature, I
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  Speaker 1: would force myself to think of, Okay, what are three
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  Speaker 1: things I did really really well in this workout, even
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: if it was an awful workout, Like you're just feeling terribly,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: you're going slow, everything is not going your way. Be
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: kind to yourself. Think of three things that you did well.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: It could be like putting your cap on, well, who cares?
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Just be kind yourself. Pick three things and then pick
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: three things that you could have done better. And if
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: you look at every training session in that way and
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: every race in that way, you'll develop this knowledge that
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: over time will help you get closer to your goals.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love that if we just apply it
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: to an everyday situation or just a day in general. Right,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: if you are someone that might be interested in adopting
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: some form of gratitude practice, a journaling practice to write
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: down three things that made yesterday great and then three
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: things that I could do better exactly, And it's just
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: being honest with yourself and also having the understanding not
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: to get two down on yourself for the things that
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: you want to do better.
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  Speaker 3: It's just recognizing what is is.
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  Speaker 2: In order to make any foundational change, it has to
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: start with that coming to self.
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  Speaker 3: It has to start with being honest with where you're at.
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  Speaker 1: Right. And I've said this for a long time that
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  Speaker 1: challenges and obstacles are learning opportunities if you give them
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  Speaker 1: the space to be a learning opportunity.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Wow, challenges can be learning opportunities. We love that
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  Speaker 2: and hence the name of the show. Yes hurdle. So
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  Speaker 2: you have this big goal, do you want to go
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  Speaker 2: to the Olympics. You're breaking it down by seasons and meets,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and you're writing and your journaling and all of these things, right,
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  Speaker 2: and then what.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Happens, Well, what happens is I ended up tearing my
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: laborum my senior year of high school, about a year
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  Speaker 1: out of the Olympic Trials, and that derailed everything, Like everything,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I was getting so close to my goal. I won
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: five events at our US Open, and I was training.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: Really really hard, you know, no pay, no gain.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: And I remember rate one practice in particular, my showlders
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  Speaker 1: went numb and I ignored it and pushed through it,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and then that night woke up with the worst pain
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  Speaker 1: I ever had felt at that point, and then the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: next day couldn't lift my arm. So as a swimmer,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: you obviously need your shoulders. So I struggled big time
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: for about a year, and then fast forward to that
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  Speaker 1: Olympic trials. In swimming, we have to get first or
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: second to make our Olympic team, and I ended up
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: getting fourth in the tuner I am and so in
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: a period, you know, it was one practice that kind
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: of I got injured, and then dealing with it for
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: a full year, And mind you I was sixteen seventeen
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: years old, so mentally that was really really tough. And
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: then went to the Olympic trials and then I was
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: just so close to making it but not there. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: now again, maturity is everything. That was the best thing
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: that ever happened to me, because I think at that time,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: had I made that Olympic team, I would have been
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: just and I'm not talking down about this, but I
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: would have been just satisfied. Being an Olympian like that
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: is a huge accomplishment. I am not talking trash about
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: quote unquote just being an Olympian. However, not making that
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Olympic team set this fire inside of me. This it
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: put this chip on my shoulder honestly that I wanted
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: to prove to myself and prove to others how good
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I could be. And I didn't really look back from
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that time on in two thousand and one, so just
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: after missing the Olympic team in two thousand, I won
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: my first world title, and then in two thousand and two,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I broke my first long course world record and I
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: was the first woman under a minute in the hundred backstrokes.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: So it really was the best thing that happened to me.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: But it was a painful lesson.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a painful lesson.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: And we hear that all the time, right, that it's
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: not the easy, breezy, awesome days that really instill in
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: us anything to move.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Forward besides good memories.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what it is ultimately is those difficult days, the
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: days that you are feeling you're lowest low, that you
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: have the opportunity to channel that discomfort and ask myself,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: what now?
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: What next?
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and asking that question can be entirely difficult. I mean,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: talk to us a little bit about at first, those
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: feelings that you experienced when you realize that this is
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: really going to put me down and out.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it was a year and a half of crying,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: like nearly every day, like feeling like rage about I
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: was just working hard, I was doing what I was
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: supposed to do. Yeah, you know, and I felt like
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: it was so unfair, like I was just working hard
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: and I was doing exactly like I was following my
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: path and I was getting so close to my goal
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: and it just felt like something out of my control
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: took my goal away from me. And again, sixteen years old,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: seventeen years old, you don't have the perspect div of
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: any of that. And fortunately, because of Title nine and
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the NC two A, I knew that despite me being
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: injured I could still get a full scholarship at any
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: college I wanted to. So that was really the carrot
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: that I used to motivate myself through those tough times. Like,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: had college swimming not existed, I one would have quit swimming.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: So I am so grateful to the college system for that.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: And so when I saw things not going well for
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: that year and a half, I did see like, hey,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: there's a bright side. I could still get into a
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: really great school and get my school paid for through
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: the years and years of hard work that I've done.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I may not make the Olympics this time, but I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: will get a scholarship. And so that was the motivation
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: that I needed, and that was the light at the
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: end of this you know, kind of dark tunnel at
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, again, it's so relatable to hear about that difficulty
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: that you went through. Of course, that difficulty can show
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: up in so many different forms.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: But for someone listening to this who may feel.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: As though they're in the thick of that hardship right now,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: what advice or what actionable tools did you use on
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: your most difficult days, maybe to pick your head.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Up a little bit higher.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, really, it's getting back to the what did
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I do well today?
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: What could I have done better?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: It's just like having that mindset being grateful like I was,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: you know, a shoulder injury.
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: It's not the end of the world.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm still a healthy, elite athlete who is able,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: bodied and fit and getting to swim. You know, it's
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: hard to have that perspective when you're so young, but
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I still tried to realize how fortunate I truly was,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: even though I felt like everything was unfair and this
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: isn't going my way. But I still tried to have perspective.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: When you know, I tried to have perspective. You know,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: there are times I would.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Of course sallow in my misery, now entirely understandable. You
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: mentioned also the one hundred meter backstroke record sub one minute.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Bring us into the pool with you during that experience.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was pretty amazing.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: So I had been close to that world record for
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: a pretty long time. The world record at the time
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: was I believe one minute point one six and I
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: had been one minute point eighteen like twice, and I
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: had been one one minute point two. I've been one
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: minute point two one like I'd been so so so close,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: many many times. And it was at our long course
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: US Nationals again, back at Fort Lauderdale, Florida, where I
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: first made my my national final. It was back there
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: and it was outdoors, and Florida in the summer is
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: not great for swimming.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: Their thunderstorms that roll through.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: And I was in the ready room, which means you know,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: before about twenty minutes before your race, you report to
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the ready room. So if you're watching the Olympics, you'll
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: see all the swimmers in a room fully clothed, their
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: cap on, their suit under their clothes, like just sitting
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: around with their competitors.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: So that's what I was doing.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I was in the ready room, and because of thunder
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and wind and lightning and everything, they kept postponing my race,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: postponing my race, postponing my race, and I just had
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: this mantra in my head. I was like, Tonight's the night,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Tonight's the night. I don't care when I swim this
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: damn race, Tonight's the night. And I just kept saying,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Tonight's the night, Tonight's to night, Tonight's to night and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: finally it was our turn to swim without thunder and lightning.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Get into the pool and actually it was quite shallow,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: much like even more shallow than these Olympic games, and
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: off the start I hit the bottom of the pool
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: because it was though shallow. I always went really deep,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: like this pool was about six feet deep, so it
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: was really shallow, and I was like, I don't care,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: and I hit the bottom a couple times with my
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: upper back, which slowed down my underwaters a little bit.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: But from there I just took off and won that
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: race went fifty nine fifty six, I think.
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: Fifty nine to five.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what the hundreds were, but I ended
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: up breaking that world record by six tenths of a second,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and back then it had been a long time since
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: a world record had been broken and swimming and so
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: got a long standing ovation from the crowd.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: It was pretty magical.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: What happens after you break a world record.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: Not much. You just get back again and swim your
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: next race.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I think I had like the hundred fly and the
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: hundred free later on, but I definitely felt like I
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: had a weight lifted off of me. Of you know,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: if I don't ever swim again. I am now a
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: long course world record holder.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing, pretty amazing, pretty amazing. Yeah, what an
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: unbelievable experience. And I love that you said, well you
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: swim again, because I think that I too, am someone
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: that it's like, okay, like one small win onto the
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: next thing, And something that I'm personally working on is
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: being a little bit better about giving those win space.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say that getting a world record
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: is a small win. Actually I think it's quite a
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: large win, especially considering it took so much long, such
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: a long time for it to be done again. But
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I do think in the day to day or when
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: you're working towards something that really excites you, there's just
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: so much value in giving yourself the space to be like, no.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I worked for this. Yeah, yeah, it's so important. Yeah,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: it's so important. And the reason I say, like you
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: had another swim, it was still like I was like
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: mid mid meet, and so I still needed to qualify
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: because that Nationals was a qualify for our Pan Pacific
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Games and the World Championships the next year, So I
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: still needed to qualify, and the hundred fly and the
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: hundred free and get my spots on the relays. So
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: it was just it was just one stepping stone along
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: the way of the overall picture of that Nationals.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: For me, your first Olympic Games.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: It's on the horizon in this story that we're telling
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: right now, this picture that we're painting. How did you
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: feel after you qualified for your first Olympic Games?
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: So relieved?
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because going into that Olympic Trials the hands down favorite,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: the world record holder, there was just so much. I
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: was built up so much, and I was recalling, you know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: when I was a teenager being built up and then
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: just getting so close to my goal and then not
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: quite achieving it. So you know, you have those nightmare
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: scenarios will go through your head. But this time along,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I knew I was capable of winning that Olympic Trials
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: and earning my spot on the team. But the thing
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that's beautiful about swimming, and the thing that is so
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: brutal about swimming is it comes down to one race.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: It does not matter if you're the world record holder.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: You could have been dominating every race leading up to
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: that final. You could have been dominating prelims, semi finals,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: It does not matter. You could slip on the start,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you could have a bad turn, you could have a
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: bad race, and you don't make the Olympic teams.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: So having all.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: That in your head, you just want to get through trials.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: And this is where people don't realize Olympic trials in many, many,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: many ways are much harder than the Olympic Games for swimmers,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and I think track athletes feel the same way. They're
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: much They're a bigger you know, no pun intended hurdle
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: to get across. So I just felt such relief, like
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I was hugging everybody on the pool that people I
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: really didn't even.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Like giving a hug. You huge pretty much. Oh my gosh.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: I love to hear it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: And it's so true, especially in sports where typically speaking,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: the USA is quite dominant, right because that means that
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: the competition on the home front is so major and
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: making that team is almost harder than it is when
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: you show up to participate in the Olympics.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: There it is, I mean there there have been instances
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: of people breaking the world record at Olympic trials in
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the semi final and then not making the Olympic team,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: or the person who gets third place could have also
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: gotten the medal at the Olympic Games. We see this
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: a lot, so American swimming has such history of being very,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: very very strong and the best swim team in the world,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: so just getting through that trials is so so difficult.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to talk to you
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• 30:31
  Speaker 2: talk to you about your mindset around pressure. You spoke
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: about the difficulties that went hand in hand with the
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: fact that your reputation preceded you. How did you manage
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: that pressure going into the pool?
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: It was it was tough, you know, I would I
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: would go into the races, especially my first Olympic Games.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I remember being in the ready room and I was like,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: you know what, no matter what, it's all going to
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: be over in thirty minutes. And then twenty minutes. You know, oh,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: you know what, it's going to be over in twenty minutes.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: And then as we're behind the block, you know you're
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: getting announced, and you're like, it's.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Going to be over in two minutes, whether I like
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: it or not.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: And that was kind of a way for me to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: be like, you know what, life will go on if
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I get eighth in this or if I get first,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: like it doesn't really matter. I'm going up and down
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: a pool, And I would try and overrationalize things like
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that sometimes when I felt too much pressure, I'm like,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: this is a silly like sport where I'm just going
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: up and down a pool as fast as I can,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: And so I'd like kind of not trivialize it, but
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: kind of put it into perspective a little bit. And
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: then from there I would just pick like two or three,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: maybe four things in that race that I am going
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: to nail. And so for me in backstroke, it was like, no,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to nail that start. I'm going to nail
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: those underwaters off the turn I'm really going to have
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I'm going to accelerate off those underwaters, and when my
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: legs feel like they're on fire with like hot cement,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: I am going to keep my head still and I'm
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: going to drive my legs like anticipating what I was.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: Going to feel like during that race.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And then from there I would just kind of go
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: into this fugue state where I don't really remember anything else, Like, yeah,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: I focus. I would focus on a couple things, and
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: the best races that I had were those ones where
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I really don't remember what happened.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I like two things here. The first
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: thing that I.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Love is that idea of zooming out and being like,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: it's just swimming. Yeah, And it's entirely valid that it
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: can be both. It can be just swimming going up
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: and down fast in a pool, and it can also
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: be something that matters a lot to you. Right, it
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: can be both. There's duality there, but that zoom out
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: does help you put it into perspective a little bit.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And then the visualization is critical. I believe, whether you're
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: in the pool, you're going into a big meeting, whatever
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: it is that you have on deck, if you think
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: to yourself, this is how I see it going, this
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: is how I would love for it to play out,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: but also perhaps asking yourself what happens.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: If it doesn't go the way that I wanted to?
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: How am I going to handle that?
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: I think there's both.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And what I've found in sitting down with so many
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: people that are wildly successful at what they do is
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of them don't even ask that second part.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: They don't ask themselves what happens if it doesn't go
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: to the way that I want. It's simply a radical
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: level of self belief that I am not only capable
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: of this, but I am the best at it. Do
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: you think that at that time you had this radical
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: sense of self belief?
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I did, Really, I really do think that I was like,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: you know, what all I have to do is execute.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I'm capable of winning this race. Like, all I have
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to do is execute. Yeah, And that's that's really my
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: mentality going into it. And it's funny, like my kids
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: both swim and my daughter, I've spoken to her swim
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: team about race preparation and like what you need to
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: do before the race, and you know, I teach them
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the excitement and anxiety physiologically or the same thing. It's
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: really what happens between, you know, between the ears and
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: how you respond to those feelings of oh my god,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: my palms are sweaty, my heart rates a little is
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: going a little bit, I have butterflies in my stomach.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: If you tell yourself that you're excited, that you could
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: really like channel that physiological feeling into something good. If
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: you tell yourself, oh my god, I'm so anxious, and
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: you could actually channel it into a bad way. So
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: it's it's really that that mentality is very, very helpful.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: And like you said, I really believe in visualization. So
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: when I was going to sleep before my races, I
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: would visualize that race, and not only how I wanted
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: it to look, but how I wanted it to feel.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I would try and imagine what the water would feel like,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: what the groat as I'm walking out feels like. Try
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: and make it as vivid as possible is really really important,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and so that's a good skill and that's something that
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: you have to work at it. That's not an easy
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: thing to do because you could visualize and then all
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: of a sudden a terrible thought pops into your head
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: and you're like, oh it rewind, Let's start that over
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: and then let's visualize it how I want it to go.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Well, there's two different things that are happening here.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: The first is recognizing that you can use all of
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: your senses to your advantage. Right, So it's not just
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: that visualization, it's asking yourself simple questions like what am
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: I tasting, what am I touching, what are the sensations
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: around me? Right, So really putting yourself, as you said,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: as specific as possible into that scenario, and then beyond that,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: you then have this opportunity to decide how you want
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: to interact with your thoughts, which I think is a
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: really special takeaway here. It's you might not feel as
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: though you can control everything that's going on your mind.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: None of us do, but you do have the opportunity
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: regardless of where you are. Again, this doesn't have to
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: be in the water to say I am not my thoughts.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I get to respond to my thoughts.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: And that word respond is very valuable here because it's
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: very different than react, right, and that takes training in
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: your experience, talk to me a little bit about how
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: you learned to respond instead of react.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there were times where I would react,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: and honestly, sometimes it was like so pure and amazing,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: But like if a competitor would talk trash and then
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I just see blind rage and
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: then I'm like, you know a machine, I'm like, oh
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: my god, Like it was amazing. That only happened a
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: couple times. Those were those were powerful moments. But that literally,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: in my thirty year career happened maybe twice, So you
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: can't really count on those. But the times where yeah,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: you might not feel well going into that race, and
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: you might feel some anxiety, repet bonding and realizing like
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm just excited, maybe I'm a little bit of both,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: trying to find a way to channel those feelings into
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: something that you could use as fuel for that race.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Every time I felt like I felt really nervous or
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: too much pressure, I would just go back to the
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: pieces that I needed to work on and the pieces
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: that I needed to focus on. I don't need to
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: focus on the external voices. I just need to focus
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: on my start, my finish, my stroke, you know, all
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: the things that I could actually control, because I have
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: zero control over my competitors, you know, and so I
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: mean it's not like we're interacting with anyone.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Not a man on man type event. So yeah, there
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: was just a letting go of the things I cannot
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: control and then focusing on the things that I can control.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: So much easier said than done, right, exactly, letting go
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: of the things that you cannot control is a journey.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: It is a huge journey.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: But when you get there, and I don't want to
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: say it that like one day you wake up and
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, I'm good at letting go of the
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: things I can't control right now, it doesn't work like that.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: There might be different instances in your life where you're like, Okay,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: I'm actually really good at letting go of the things
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: I can't control in my personal life, miracle, But then like,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I'm really bad at doing that in the office. But
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: having again that awareness and then reflecting on how you
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: feel in these situations, meeting yourself with where you're at
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: and moving forward from there. Yeah, it's so so valuable
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: and again such an important skill for you that you
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: learned over time in the pool. That skill that know
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: all or understanding of your own self certainly carried you
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: to do some really great things.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: That and hard work, of course, the.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Mental training, the physical training, bringing you eventually not only
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: to twelve medals but then also six in one Olympic Games.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: At that time, when you left that Olympic Games with
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: the six medals, talk to us a little bit about
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: how you felt knowing that previously, as we spoke about,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: you did feel some kind of way about having all
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: of these expectations on you.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Right, So you left that.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Game not only you know, a champion, but also carrying
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a load.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was interesting going into those
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Beijing Olympics. I added the tuner that I am back
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: to my program almost as a joke, honestly, I you know,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: it's it's silly. I swam the tuner I am at
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: a lead up meet that that year, just as like
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: an off event, just to mix it up, because I
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: always do hunter back and hundred free and tunored free
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: at the time, and I was like, I'll just add
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: in a tuner I am just to mix it up,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: do something different. And I remember one of my competitors
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: just like joking with This isn't one of the instances
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: of blind rage, by the way, but I remember one
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: of my competitors joking and we're friends, and she like
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: kind of said something that was a little too sharp
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, okay, watch this, and it
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: ended up dropping four seconds in that race, which is
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: a huge amount of time.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: I went from a two fourteen to two ten.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: I just was off the American record and I was like, oh,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: where did that come from? And then I did it
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: one more time at another lead up meet and I
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: ended up breaking the American record and I was like, shoot,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I never considered doing the tunered dim at these Olympic Games,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: but you know, it made sense. I broke the American record,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: it kind of fit into my schedule, so I added
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: it into the program at Olympic Trials and I ended
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: up making the Olympic team and the hunter back, the
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: tuner dim, and the hundred free, as well as the
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: three relays. And I remember sitting down my personal coach
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: and the head coach of the Olympic team when we're
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: in training camp, and I was like, I need to
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: drop a race. Am I either dropping the tunered I
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: am or the four by two hundred freestyle, Like I'm
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: not going to spread myself so thin and I don't
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: want to spread myself too thin. And both of them
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: were like, you're doing all six. I was like okay.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, you can take me off the
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: relay and they're like, no, you're doing all six. I
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: was like, okay, let's do it and get going back
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: to what we said earlier. I just looked at the
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: eight days, because back then the swim competition was eight
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: days long, broken into sixteen sessions, and I just looked
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: at what each session would look like. Just take it
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: one session at a time. There were a couple sessions
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: where I had multiple races, so I took one race
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: at a time and just kind of again mapped out
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: what this is going to look like, so I'm not
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: surprised by oh shoot, I only have forty minutes in
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: between these races, or oh shoot, I have to get
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: from this race. I have to grab my stuff, try
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: and get a warm down in for twenty minutes. Then
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: I had to get back to the ready room to
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: get to my next race. Like figuring out all those
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: logistics and so they don't surprise you was really important.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: And I never.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I knew I was capable of getting a medal in
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: all those races, Like I didn't think that was outside
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: of the possibility. And it wasn't until I think my
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: bronze and the bronze medal and the tunerd I am
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: that someone was like, you know, no one's ever, no
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: American female's ever gotten six medals at one Olympic Games,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: And I was like, really, oh shoot, and I knew
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: it was a possibility. And by yeah, that fifth race
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: was my hundred freestyle. I think the fifth race was
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: my hundred freestyle. Again, I got another bronze, and I
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: knew we could take it home in the relay, and
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: so it was a pretty pretty special accomplishment. Still, there
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: hasn't been an American that's done six medals in one
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Olympic game, so something I'm very proud.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Of, Absolutely wild and such a stellar accomplishment. And again,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: so many tools that you're talking about are so so helpful.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: Really.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: That schedule mapping, I think is another really good thing.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Beyond like the actual visualization that you might do, it's
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: also like what do I need to do to make
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: sure that I am in the best place possible to
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: get to where I want to be? And that takes
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: an understanding of self and also a willingness, And I
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: think that beyond that, it's also so important then to
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: know what your why is, to know where there's a why,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: there's a way. So for you, when you reflect on
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: your swimming career and going for greatness time and time again,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: what would you say was the why that anchored you
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: as you went after your goals.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: I always joke that I was just competitive out of
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: the womb. Like people ask their like, do you think
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: you could instill competitiveness into your kid? And I really
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: don't know if you can or not. I was very
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: competitive at a young age, and it didn't even matter.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: It was like very unhealthy at points where you know,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: you could be playing ultimate frisbee with your friends, you
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: could be playing pool, you could be doing just silly
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: little things. But I was so, so so competitive and
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I wanted to win at everything I was doing. Like
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: my parents have videos of me when I was attempting
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: to do dance class as a little kid, and I
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: was terrible at dance, but they have old vhs of
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: you know, one girl would do like this beautiful spin
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: and then I would see her and I would do
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: the most awkward, like forceful three spins that were not
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: graceful by any imagination, but in my head, I was
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: like winning.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you're like what I can do?
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I was that kid.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: So when I found swimming and found that I was
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: better at swimming than I was a gymnastics or dance
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: or volleyball, I just kind of channeled all that competitiveness
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: into the pool and then and then learned at an
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: older age, again more mature age, to let go of,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: you know, playing ultimate frisbee with your friends. It's supposed
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: to be fun. It's not supposed to be this like knockdown,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: drag out so weird.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: I have to win.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like, oh that's an option for people. And I
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: know you could turn this off, but yeah, it was
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: you know, something.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: I learned over time.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: I love that. I love that.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Well, long story short, you know, you have, like I said,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: an unbelievable career.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: I do want to.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about the feelings when that went
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: hand in hand when you made the choice to retire
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: from swimming professionally.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: So give us some insight into that.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I never officially retired, but I just stopped competing. That's
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: that's how I like to say it. At A lot
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: of summers do retire, and so to actually retire you
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: have to sign some paperwork and.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: Everything that I have never find the paperwork.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: I never did that.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: Twenty twenty eight. You just watch out, You just watch out.
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: Did that?
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Like if you signed the paperwork, basically that's removing you
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: from the drug testing pool. And so I just didn't
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: sign the paperwork, and I just kind of timed out.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: So and that was a conscious choice, Like I didn't
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: want to have this like in memoriam of my career.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: It just I felt like that would just give too
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: much of a spotlight of something that I've loved for
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: so long, and I didn't want to say, like, this
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: is the death of my swimming career, Like that's kind
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: of how I saw it if you signed a retirement papers,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: and not that like that's right or wrong. That's just
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: kind of how it was in my mind. I didn't
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: want to like have a press conference about it or anything.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: So I never officially retired, but I knew after missing
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: the Olympic team in twenty sixteen that I was like,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm almost thirty four. I was about
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: to turn thirty four, and I probably need to move on.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Like I love, love being in a summer, I love
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: being a professional athlete, but that fire to compete was
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: no longer really in me. I loved the training, and
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: it's funny like as I got older, that was my
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: favorite part was just being with my teammates, joking with them,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: talking trash in the weight room, all working towards this
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: amazing goal like being so fit, having just the time
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: of our lives traveling the world racing. But I didn't
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: have that drive to go to another Olympics or go
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: to another nationals or world championships. So that's when I
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I'm just gonna move on
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: and focus on other things now.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would imagine that that was a bittersweet decision.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: It was because I, like I said, I loved the process.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: I really loved the training. And I know a lot
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: of athletes are like, oh, I love the thrill of
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: the game, but I can't wait to be done with training.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: I was, you know, in my thirties that last quad.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: So those last four years, I was in my thirties
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: and most of my friends had office jobs and they
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: were trying to find thirty minutes in the day to
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: just get a workout in, and you know, they might
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: be in an indoors all day. And again I had
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: some perspective. I was like, yeah, I have to get
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: up at four am, but I see the sunrise every
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: day I am outside, I get a train for five
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: hours a day. I am so strong and fast, and
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: that's something really special. So I really savored those last
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: several years of training and savored that time with my friends.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, like I was like, I can't do
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: this forever. I need to move on and figure out
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: some other things in my life. I get too. I
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: get too. I love that perspective.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: And speaking of figuring out other things in your life,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've got some other things figured out.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: What are you most excited about, not only in your
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: day to day right now, but about the projects that
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: you currently have in the pipe.
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: So in twenty seventeen, so just after I was done
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: officially competing, I never retired. I started a winery with
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: my good friend and partner, Shana Harding. We started Gaderian
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Wines were based at a Napa valley and Gaderian means
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: to gather in Old English. And I couldn't think of
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: a better name for sharing wine is something if you're
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: someone who drinks that opening a bottle of wine with
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: some friends and family around a table and sharing an
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: experience is just something that I think is so beautiful.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: And that's what we named her wine after. And I
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: really just jumped into it without knowing much about the industry.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: I was a fan of wine. My business partner had
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: been in the industry for fifteen years, and I just
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: figured it out as I went. I knew that I
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: was smart, that I'm hard working, and that I'm scrappy.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: So I took some class is that UC Davis and
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: viticulture and anology, but really I just learned through doing.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: And so we're in our eighth vintage right now. We
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: specialize in shennon blanc and pino noir, but we have
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: a little bit of everything and we make a really
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: beautiful product that I'm very proud of. So that's my
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: business venture. And then personally, my husband and I we
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: had two kids, so we have a three year old
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: boy and a five year old girl and have our
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: hands full with those two.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: If there are anything like Mom was at that age,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: they spin it in circles and try now to everybody else.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: They are both nuts in the best way possible.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I will say also that I've tried the wine
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: and it's phenomenal. Thank you so good, And what a
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: cool thing to be like. This is something that interests me.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: We have an opportunity. I'm going to do the prep
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: that I need to do, but I'm just gonna trust
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: my gut. Yeah, sometimes I want to be a little
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: bit more like that in that I'm certainly a little bit.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Type A and at school that's me. I'm good with that.
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: I'm the same.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm definitely a little type A, but sometimes I'm like,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: why not, Like, what's the worst thing that can happen?
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: And I definitely said it on the show before.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Nine times out of ten, ninety five percent of the time,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: the worst thing that's going to happen is that you're exactly.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: Where you started. Yeah, and candidly where we started.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Pretty haven't that bad? Yeah, exactly. So for you to
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: take that leap of faith and try something new and
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: now to be you know, you said your seventh vintage, eighth,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: eighth vintage now and now to be on your eighth vintage,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: it's remarkable.
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah it is.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: And I mean my business partner, Shana, she was the
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: one who's like, I need a partner, and she had
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: been in the industry for years and so I was like,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: she has a wonderful palette, she's a great wine maker.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: She could, you know, do all the heavy lifting on
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: that side of things, and I could work on the
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: branding and the website and some of that stuff. But
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: both of us where a lot of hats and I
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: help during crush. So harvest is you know, August through
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: October for us, So I'm out there at our picks,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: I'm processing the fruit, I'm helping make the wine under
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Shana and you know, after eight years of doing this,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like I have gained so much knowledge of,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: you know, how wine is made, and it's something that
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I really enjoy. And when I tell people why I
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: like making wine so much, it fulfills so many different
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: parts of my brain. There's the physicality of it. There's
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of physical things you have to do. You
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: have to move barrels around, you have to pick fruit,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: you have to do a lot of like lifting. There's
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: one move that if you look on my Instagram that
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I absolutely love and wine making. It's called a punchdown.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: And because we do our punchdowns by hand, we are
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: so small. You basically stir the ferment around with your
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: arms and it's like swimming in wine.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: That's amazing.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something that we only do for our red
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Pino noir. Pin noir is really thin skinned and you
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: want to be gentle with it. And instead of using
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: a machine, we use our arms to stir the ferment
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: and it's amazing. And so there's the physicality of it.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: There's the art of making something like we're we're using
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: chemistry and science to you know, convert the sugars into
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: alcohol and try and get as many aromas out of
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: it and flavors out of this beautiful thing that nature's
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: given to us. And then there's the the art of
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: sharing some product that we made and sharing it with
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: the masses. So it's it's just like all these different
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: parts of the brain that are stimulating you know.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: What I'm hearing you say, though, is that this journey
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: in wine making is very similar to the journey that
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: you had within swimming, and you understand the bigger picture,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: which is.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: That the journey is destination.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, you are truly enjoying this now, you enjoyed that then,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: And one is not necessarily better than the other. It's
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: just both an experience that you are in bracing as
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: it happens.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: I think that's really beautiful. Yeah, it's really beautiful.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: And it also segues me as we start to wind
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: down here into this broader topic, which is as athletes
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: often graduate within sports, something I recently wrote about from
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Marie Claire, there is that little bit of a struggle
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: who am I now without this sport?
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: Who is Natalie?
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: So these days when you look in the mirror, What
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: is it that you see looking back at you.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: I still see an athlete, honestly, Like I'm not a
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: professional athlete by any means anymore. But I realized through
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: having kids and through the pandemic and that being strong
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: and being fit are what make me feel like me.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: So it was really interesting. My son was born October
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty, so you could just imagine what the world
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: was like in October twenty twenty and the lead up
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: to that. So I had my daughter was eighteen months
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: when the world shut down and we were stuck in
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: our house, especially in California, and so I wasn't working
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: out as taking care of a toddler while my husband
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: was trying to keep his swim team afloat, and I,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: you know, I was pregnant, so I couldn't go out
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: on the hikes that I wanted to because I had
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: a pee all the time. So I went from like
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: just not working out, and then I had two kids
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: in the pandemic and taking care of that and just
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: staying afloat, and I got so out of shape. And
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: when I kind of exited the fog of is this
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: the pandemic or is this postpartum or is this the
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: combination of the two, which I think it was a
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: combination of the two. I really started to work on
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: my fitness again and getting back into the gym just
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: like it's it felt so right, Like I hadn't been
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: lifting hard for about five years or so, and around
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: right when I turned forty, I started lifting very heavy again,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: and within six months, I couldn't believe it. My legs
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: were as strong as they ever were. I was back
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: up to doing a bunch of pull ups and just
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I felt so much lighter emotionally, and I just felt
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: so strong. And that's like how I need to feel
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: like that. That has been such a part of my
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: life for a long time, so I needed to feel that.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: So I still see an athlete even though I'm not
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: a professional athlete anymore. And then a mother and a
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: business woman. Yeah I am home both, Like I'm home
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: with my husband and my kids every day. You know,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: my husband and I do a really we do our
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: best of juggling the kids amongst the two of us
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: in our schedules, and it's tough at times, but I
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: love being with them as as much as we are.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: And then I see myself as a scrappy business owner,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to grow thoughtfully and trying to get
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: good placements into restaurants and things like that. But really,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: I know that once we get our wine out there,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: that it's a beautiful wine and people love it. So
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: I just need to get it in their hands, and
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: so figuring that out is the next chapter.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: The next chapter, well, such a beautiful reflection, and I'm
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: so excited for you as you continue to navigate this
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: different journey than the journeys you've been on before.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: As we wind down here, I end.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: The show every time by bringing you back to one
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: of the hurdles that we spoke about during our conversation.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: You spoke about the difficulties that went hand in hand
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: with tearing your labrum in your teenage years, missing what
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: you thought would be your first opportunity at the Olympic Games.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Knowing what you know now, what advice would you offer
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: to your teenage self during that devastating hurdle moment.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, I always I love like having little mantras,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: and trust in the process is my mantra. Just trust
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: in the process, Like have faith that if you just
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: keep your head down and just stay focused, that eventually
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: you will get either close to your goal or you'll
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: you'll hit your goal. It's one of those things where
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: just because you set a goal and you set a timeline,
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean your timeline is the accurate one. It's
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: a roadmap, but by no means is it the law.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: And so you just have to trust that, like maybe
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: maybe you didn't get this time, but you're going to
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: figure out some ways to be better the next time.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Every opportunity, every everything that you put forth, every goal
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: that you set out, is an opportunity to learn, whether
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: or not you accomplish it or not, whether you like.
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: It or not, it's a learning opportunity.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Natalie, I'm so happy that we were able to do this.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: For those that don't follow you, just yet give us
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: the info. How can they keep up with you on
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: the social.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm most active on Instagram, as I think most
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: people my HR. So it's Natalie Coglin on Instagram n
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: A T A l A E c o U g
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: h l A N and then Gadarian Wines. I manage
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: that Instagram as well, So that's g A D E
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: r I A N Wines Dot. Yeah, I was gonna
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: say dot com, but.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Both are fine Instagram dot com, wherever you want to
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: check it out. I'm over at Emiliabody and at Hurdle
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: Podcast Another hurdle conquered.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.