Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Hubby's lover to flip evidence in case of missing mom of 5 Jennifer Dulos?

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Hubby's lover to flip evidence in case of missing mom of 5 Jennifer Dulos? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, will you be cooerat with police?
0:09
Speaker 1: With her attorney right beside her, Michelle Traconas kept quiet
0:12
Speaker 1: while turning herself into State police this afternoons anything about
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Speaker 1: the new Just like her boyfriend Photus Dulos, who was
0:17
Speaker 1: arrested yesterday, Traconaz is also now facing an additional charge
0:21
Speaker 1: of tampering with evidence. Remember that Michelle is presumed innocent,
0:26
Speaker 1: and she should be. We're prepared to let judgment in
0:30
Speaker 1: this case rest on a jury's hands. According to the
0:34
Speaker 1: arrest warrant police released yesterday, investigators found a blood like
0:37
Speaker 1: substance containing Jennifer's DNA inside the work truck they say
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Speaker 1: Photus Dulos drove to New Canaan the day Jennifer disappeared.
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Speaker 1: Photus and Michelle were later captured on surveillance cameras at
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Speaker 1: an Avon carwash getting that same truck detailed. When questioned
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Speaker 1: by detectives as to why Dulos would need to have
0:52
Speaker 1: the truck clean shortly after his estranged wife's disappearance, Raconis
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Speaker 1: allegedly replied, quote, well, obviously, all the evidence says, because
1:00
Speaker 1: you showed me the picture of the blood in the door.
1:02
Speaker 1: It's because the body of Jennifer at some point was
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Speaker 1: in there. This morning on the Vinie Penn Project a
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Speaker 1: nine to sixty w ELI, Norm Pattis, who was representing
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Speaker 1: Fotus Dulos, had this to say, we were somewhat surprised
1:14
Speaker 1: by some of the allegations. It appears that his girlfriend
1:17
Speaker 1: has changed her tone yeah to the police and is
1:20
Speaker 1: now recanting on the alibi, which we're stunned by. We
1:23
Speaker 1: don't know what leverage the state used against her to
1:27
Speaker 1: get her to change your testimony, and we'll find out now.
1:29
Speaker 1: In a statement this afternoon, Pattis added, quote, our hearts
1:32
Speaker 1: go out to mister Konis. We are confident that she will,
1:34
Speaker 1: in the end tell the truth at trial. The state
1:37
Speaker 1: is a terrifying enemy, but a clean conscious is a
1:40
Speaker 1: powerful ally. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
1:43
Speaker 1: you for being with us. You are listening to our
1:46
Speaker 1: friend I at w FSB. Matt McFarland, the husband of
1:51
Speaker 1: a missing Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos, quote is
1:54
Speaker 1: in a fight for his life as damning new evidence
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Speaker 1: stack up against him. In the last hours. His girlfriend,
2:04
Speaker 1: his lover, Michelle Traconis is arrested again. Everybody, thank you
2:10
Speaker 1: for being with us today on crime Stories. Let's go
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Speaker 1: straight out to Alexis to Regis Chut with Radar Online
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Speaker 1: dot Com. Alexis, I want to start off with, I'm
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Speaker 1: nine one than Yeah, I'm worried about my wife and
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Speaker 1: kids because they left to go to New York and
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Speaker 1: I haven't been able to get in touch with. Okay,
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Speaker 1: where they were run to York? What's the license late
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Speaker 1: on the car? What's the license late on the car? I? Okay,
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Speaker 1: what's who's the car registered to? My wife's name is
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Speaker 1: Jennifer dulus Now there you hear, Alexis to Reschut Fotus Dulos.
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Speaker 1: Now this is the day before his wife files for divorce.
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Speaker 1: That was twenty seventeen. Fast forward, Jennifer Doolas drops her
3:01
Speaker 1: children off at a Ritzy's school and the drop offline.
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Speaker 1: She drives away like she always does every weekday morning,
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Speaker 1: but she starts missing appointments starting around eleven am. Her
3:13
Speaker 1: car found abandoned, her SUV found abandoned. Bring me up
3:18
Speaker 1: to day. The most recent thing that has happened is
3:21
Speaker 1: that Fordyce's girlfriend was arrested again in the case. Police
3:26
Speaker 1: have said they have even more evidence that she was
3:30
Speaker 1: tampering from the beginning. She and Fordyce were arrested together
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Speaker 1: very soon after Jennifer went missing, the two of them together,
3:37
Speaker 1: because there is video of the two of them all
3:40
Speaker 1: around town after Jennifer went missing, and police believe that
3:44
Speaker 1: these videos show that they are dropping bags of bloody clothes,
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Speaker 1: possibly even body parts of Jennifer in thirty different places
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Speaker 1: around town. And this crime. He said she dropped that
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Speaker 1: Jennifer dropped the kids off in the morning at school.
4:01
Speaker 1: She did. It was about eight o'clock in the morning.
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Speaker 1: All five for children, two sets of twins were dropped off.
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Speaker 1: They believe that this crime is committed very quickly in
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Speaker 1: the house. It's amazing that there are twenty to thirty
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Speaker 1: locations where police have found bloody sponges and clothing in
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Speaker 1: the last hours. For those of you just joining us
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Speaker 1: here at crime Stories. The girlfriend Jennifer Dulos, the missing
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Speaker 1: Connecticut mom of five, the girlfriend of her husband Fotus Dulos,
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Speaker 1: has been arrested not on murdered, not on kidnapping, but
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Speaker 1: on tampering with evidence charges. That really tells me a
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Speaker 1: lot because Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now defense attorney. They're
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Speaker 1: not arresting the next door neighbor. They're not arresting the
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Speaker 1: pizza delivery guy for tampering with evidence. They keep arresting.
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Speaker 1: This is the second time they've arrested the husband, Fotus
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Speaker 1: Dulos and his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, for tampering with evidence.
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Speaker 1: What does that tell you, Daryl Cohen, It tells me
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Speaker 1: they are right around the corner from arresting them for murder.
5:02
Speaker 1: The more they push them, the more they just squeeze them,
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Speaker 1: the more they're hoping that they're going to give up.
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Speaker 1: Where she is, what happened to her, and who did it?
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Speaker 1: They must be waiting on a body. But can Michelle Traconis,
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Speaker 1: the lover of Jennifer's husband, Fotus Dulos, provide that Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at ABC. This is wit Johnson.
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Speaker 1: Jennifer disappeared on May twenty fourth after dropping her kids
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Speaker 1: off at school. Authorities believe she was the victim of
5:29
Speaker 1: a serious physical assault, discovering bloodstains in her garage. A
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Speaker 1: couple was locked in a vicious divorce and custody battle
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Speaker 1: Jennifer claiming in twenty seventeen court documents, I am terrified
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Speaker 1: for my family's safety. He is dangerous. Fotis Dulos strongly
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Speaker 1: denying any threatening behavior. Fotis and his living girlfriend, Michelle
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Speaker 1: Traconis both out on bail after pleading not guilty to
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Speaker 1: charges of evidence tampering and hindering prosecution. According to arrest warrants,
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Speaker 1: surveillance video from the night Jennifer went missing captured two
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Speaker 1: people police suspect to be Fotis and Traconis, tossing bags,
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Speaker 1: including a bloodstained sponge, into trash cans around Hartford, Connecticut.
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Speaker 1: I don't get it, Alexis terres Shuck, investigative reporter with
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Speaker 1: Radar Online dot Com. If they cops really have Fotus Duelos,
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Speaker 1: the estranged husband and Michelle Traconis his lover on video
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Speaker 1: throwing out items and they follow them video to video
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Speaker 1: to video, different trash cans, and I guess dumps and
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Speaker 1: they pull out the missing mom's bloody clothes and bloody
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Speaker 1: sponges that match up to DNA Jennifer Dulos. Why no, Orest,
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Speaker 1: What do you know, Alexis? There is no body Jennifer's
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Speaker 1: body has never been found and the two, these two
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Speaker 1: together have been silent despite the fact there is apparently
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Speaker 1: that Michelle has changed her alibi too. She originally said
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Speaker 1: the chain Votus took a shower together on that morning
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Speaker 1: that Jennifer went missing, saying they were together, they took
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Speaker 1: a shower, and then she backtracked and she changed her story.
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Speaker 1: She said, Okay, we didn't take a shower, that's not true,
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Speaker 1: but she didn't say I know that Fotus was with
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Speaker 1: Jennifer and he killed her. And here's where the body is.
7:18
Speaker 1: They don't have a body. They want a body, so
7:21
Speaker 1: that this is an iron cloud kick. Oh wait, wait,
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Speaker 1: wait wait, so Alexis Terres Chuck, you know you've covered
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Speaker 1: a lot of murder investigations. But Karen Smith joining me,
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Speaker 1: forensics expert, founder of Bare Bones Consulting, Karen Smith, we've
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Speaker 1: done a lot of cases together. So what Fotus Dulos,
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Speaker 1: if he's guilty, is going to get a gold star
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Speaker 1: or extra credit because he managed to get rid of
7:46
Speaker 1: the body where we can't find it. So we're just
7:48
Speaker 1: not going to be a prosecution. So what every murderer
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Speaker 1: out there knows? Oh, just let me dismember the body
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Speaker 1: or stick it in acid, or somehow hide it forever
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Speaker 1: where it can't be found, and I'll never be prosecuted.
8:00
Speaker 1: So that's the state of affairs Care and Smith. What
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Speaker 1: can we do about it? We can do a lot
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Speaker 1: about it. Nancy, Listen, you and I both know it's
8:07
Speaker 1: better to have the body to go to prosecution, but
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Speaker 1: you don't have to have it. There is so much
8:12
Speaker 1: evidence pointing to these two people at this point. You
8:16
Speaker 1: have blood in Jennifer Dulos's garage in a number of
8:20
Speaker 1: different places, and we're going to get to that because
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Speaker 1: that is key. You have bloody clothing, blood on the bags,
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Speaker 1: you have bloody sponges and mops. You have blood inside
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Speaker 1: of a vehicle that was used apparently to transport the body. Listen,
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Speaker 1: this evidence is not just circumstantial, it is directly linked
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Speaker 1: to these two people. And frankly, I don't understand why
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Speaker 1: charges haven't been brought other than the fact that they
8:44
Speaker 1: just haven't found her body yet, and I hope they do. Tampering.
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Speaker 1: Tampering tampering the only charges we've got, but we have
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Speaker 1: insight into the knee you warrant listen to Fox sixty
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Speaker 1: one day policy. Shout your coonas said nothing as she
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Speaker 1: walked into Connecticut State Police Troop G to turn herself in.
9:00
Speaker 1: How you guys here today? Does it have anything to
9:03
Speaker 1: do with the August thirteenth interview in which police say
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Speaker 1: you lied? Accompanied by her attorney Andrew Bowman, Traconis talked
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Speaker 1: to police for the first time since August thirteenth, a date.
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Speaker 1: State Police say in a recorded interview that Traconis admits
9:15
Speaker 1: she had not been truthful, according to her newly released
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Speaker 1: rest warrant. During the interview, she told police that she
9:21
Speaker 1: did not physically see Photus Dulos at four Jefferson Crossing
9:24
Speaker 1: from the time she woke at six forty am to
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Speaker 1: one thirty in the afternoon to day Jennifer Dulos was
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Speaker 1: reported missing. Previously, she had said that they were together
9:33
Speaker 1: that morning. Police say she also told investigators that on
9:35
Speaker 1: the afternoon of Jennifer's disappearance, she witnessed Photus cleaning the
9:39
Speaker 1: backseat of a two thousand and one Toyota Tacoma for
9:42
Speaker 1: what Fotus described as a coffee spill. The same Tacoma
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Speaker 1: can be seen here, and surveillance photographs parked along Lapham
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Speaker 1: Road in New Canaan that morning, the same area where
9:51
Speaker 1: Jennifer Chevy suburban was abandoned. That last thing analyzed that
9:55
Speaker 1: for me at Luxus Terres shut Rater online dot com
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter what did they say they saw? Said that
10:00
Speaker 1: they saw them at a car wash, that Michelle and
10:03
Speaker 1: Photus were at a car wash together. And the reason
10:05
Speaker 1: she said they were at a car washes because he
10:07
Speaker 1: told her they were cleaning up a coffee stain. And
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Speaker 1: she even said police have said that she said it
10:13
Speaker 1: did not smell like coffee because it wasn't coffee. It
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Speaker 1: was blood Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Surveillance images showed
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Speaker 1: Dulos taking the truck to get washed and detailed his
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Speaker 1: project manager, who owns the Toyota, told investigators his boss
10:37
Speaker 1: kept pressuring him to replace the vehicle's passenger seats. Quote
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Speaker 1: he told him to switch out the seats so that
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Speaker 1: they would not be found. His attorney says his client
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Speaker 1: did do that, but kept the old ones just in case.
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Speaker 1: My client was smart enough to know that something might
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Speaker 1: be a miss here, so he held out to the
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Speaker 1: seats and when the police came with a warrant, looking
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Speaker 1: for his truck. He handled all the seats as well.
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Speaker 1: DNA testing on a blood like substance from the seats
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Speaker 1: match Jennifer's what does he think now? I think he
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Speaker 1: thinks what everybody thinks when you see you see the evidence.
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Speaker 1: I mean, if you read this warrant, there's a strong,
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Speaker 1: circumstantial case could be made in that warrant for murder.
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Speaker 1: How bad does it seem right now? For focus? I'm concerned.
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Speaker 1: I still think he's a defendable case. I think he's
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Speaker 1: engaged in some conduct that is questionable but not necessarily
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Speaker 1: guilt guilt worthy. And that's just the kind of argument
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Speaker 1: that we've made if the case goes to trial. Welcome back.
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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace, Jennifer Dulos, mother
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Speaker 1: of five and the wealthy enclave in New Canaan, Connecticut,
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Speaker 1: now missing for months. A strange husband, Fotus Duelos, with
11:44
Speaker 1: his lover Michel treconis ostensibly caught on video throwing out
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Speaker 1: bloody clothes, bloody sponges at multiple stops, multiple trash kens,
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Speaker 1: twenty to thirty of them caught on surveillance, and now
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Speaker 1: in the last hours that girlfriend, the lover, Michelteras re
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Speaker 1: arrested for tampering with evidence. Now this is after she's
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Speaker 1: already admitted and given a statement reportedly that she lied
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Speaker 1: in her first statement, she cannot alibi boyfriend Fotus Dulos.
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Speaker 1: On the morning Jennifer wife Jennifer goes missing. You were
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Speaker 1: just hearing our friend at NBC four, Sarah Wallace describing
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Speaker 1: how she is no longer no longer ali bying Fotus Dulas.
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Speaker 1: Let's take an listen to the attorney. This arrest warrant
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Speaker 1: suggests Dulos took an employee's red Toyota truck to New
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Speaker 1: Caanan on May twenty fourth, and was lying in wait
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Speaker 1: for his estranged wife, Jennifer, after she dropped off the
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Speaker 1: couple's five children at school. The theory is that Dulos
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Speaker 1: drove away with her body, abandoned her Chevy Suburban nearby,
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Speaker 1: and got back in the Toyota. His girlfriend, Michelle Traconis,
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Speaker 1: who originally gave Dulos his alibi, has now backed off
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Speaker 1: that story, saying she had not been truthful. She confirmed
13:00
Speaker 1: she was with him later when he dropped garbage bags
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Speaker 1: into trash receptacles in West Hartford, but the warrant says
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Speaker 1: she claimed to have no knowledge of what Dulos was doing.
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Speaker 1: You use strong words. You called her a lying lover.
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Speaker 1: I did you believe that? I wouldn't have said it.
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Speaker 1: If I don't. I spoke to Duelos as attorney exclusively
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Speaker 1: this afternoon. Is she flipping on him? I've read the
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Speaker 1: warrant as you have. I have no additional information. Reading
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Speaker 1: that warrant, it sure looks like it. You were just
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Speaker 1: hearing again our friend at NBC four New York reporter
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Speaker 1: Sarah Wallace, and she is speaking to Dulos's lawyer, Pattis,
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Speaker 1: who claims that lover michel Terconez is just a lying
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Speaker 1: ex lover Daryl Cohen. Here's the deal. She's in it
13:52
Speaker 1: up to her eyeballs because if what I hear, alexis Turez,
13:57
Speaker 1: Chuck is telling me. If I'm hearing it correctly, she
14:01
Speaker 1: the girl fram a Shelter Konis followed in a separate vehicle.
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Speaker 1: The husband photus to Dulos to the car wash, because
14:09
Speaker 1: apparently they're both seen on video. Isn't that what we heard,
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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard? They're boas seen on video at the car
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Speaker 1: wash while he is detailing his project managers Toyota, Tacoma.
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Speaker 1: Then he orders the employee to get rid of the
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Speaker 1: back seat because he thinks that one of Jennifer's hairs
14:26
Speaker 1: may be on it when police come looking. Hey, I'm
14:30
Speaker 1: not worried. Police, come look at my beat up minivan.
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Speaker 1: Have at it. Clean up while you're in there, So
14:34
Speaker 1: that doesn't concern me. So not only does he tell
14:38
Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen the employee to get rid of the back
14:41
Speaker 1: seats and the employees Tacoma all right, he then insists
14:46
Speaker 1: the employee use his Photus Dulos Porsche back seats. Now,
14:53
Speaker 1: what would you say, Daryl Cohen if somebody comes up
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Speaker 1: and tells you don't don't you drive a fancy sports car?
15:00
Speaker 1: The money comes and rips the back seat out of
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Speaker 1: your car and says, here, use my back seat from
15:04
Speaker 1: my other car. First of all, just somebody saying my
15:07
Speaker 1: other car. You know, I know a few people have
15:10
Speaker 1: more than one car, and I'm very suspicious of them.
15:12
Speaker 1: You better not be one. I'm Daryl Cohen. But long
15:15
Speaker 1: story short, wouldn't that concern you? Darryl? I mean that
15:18
Speaker 1: right there to me shows that something's very very wrong
15:21
Speaker 1: ripping the back seat out of somebody else's Tacoma and saying, hey,
15:27
Speaker 1: use my back seat. No, of course that guy saved
15:30
Speaker 1: the back seat. I think it's very kind of them
15:32
Speaker 1: to ask to use a different back seat. Of course,
15:34
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. There's no way that's hold on. Let me
15:39
Speaker 1: throw a very technical legal term on you. John David
15:44
Speaker 1: taught it to me. It's ridoculous. Okay, this is so
15:49
Speaker 1: far fetched. It's it's crazy talk. It's ridiculous. It resembles
15:55
Speaker 1: that remark. This is people that are guaranteed you. Now,
15:59
Speaker 1: you need to get with it. Darryl is ridonculous like
16:02
Speaker 1: a donkey, not doctor, like a document No, ridonculous. You
16:07
Speaker 1: got to work on that. I mean right there. You
16:09
Speaker 1: don't think a jury would convict him right there on that.
16:12
Speaker 1: And he's worried. Jennifer has left a hair from when
16:14
Speaker 1: he hugged or what are they doing in the back seat?
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Speaker 1: They're estranged. She's not hopping in the back seat with
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Speaker 1: Fotus Dulos. No, he's hopping in the back seat to
16:22
Speaker 1: do something that he shouldn't have done. He's hopping in
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Speaker 1: the back seat, and that seat has got to disappear
16:28
Speaker 1: because there's blood, there's DNA, there's other type of trace
16:32
Speaker 1: evidence that's got to go, and it's got to go quick.
16:36
Speaker 1: So you're right, it's ridomculus, another legal term, another legal term. No, Sherlock, Yeah,
16:43
Speaker 1: he's doing something back there, did I tell you? Speaking
16:47
Speaker 1: of Sherlock. The twins are obsessed with Sherlock Holmes, and
16:50
Speaker 1: they tear apart every mystery possible, and this one certainly
16:55
Speaker 1: doesn't take Sherlock Holmes. Alexa's terrest Chuck with me right
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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Karen Smith, forensics expert and
17:03
Speaker 1: Bare Bones Consulting founder, along with former prosecutor now gone
17:07
Speaker 1: to the dark side, defense attorney Darryl Cohen. Hey, take
17:10
Speaker 1: a listen to this is NBC Sarah Wallace again talking
17:14
Speaker 1: about those back seats. Nothing good happens in the backseats.
17:17
Speaker 1: Surveillance images showed Dulos taking the truck to get washed
17:20
Speaker 1: and detailed. His project manager, who owns the Toyota, told
17:24
Speaker 1: investigators his boss kept pressuring him to replace the vehicle's
17:27
Speaker 1: passenger seats. Quote. He told him to switch out the
17:31
Speaker 1: seats so that they would not be found. His attorney
17:33
Speaker 1: says his client did do that, but kept the old
17:36
Speaker 1: ones just in case. My client was smart enough to
17:39
Speaker 1: know that something might be a miss here, so he
17:41
Speaker 1: held out to the seats, and when the police came
17:44
Speaker 1: with a warrant looking for his truck, he handed all
17:46
Speaker 1: the seats as well. DNA testing on a bloodlike substance
17:49
Speaker 1: from the seats match Jennifer's What is c think now?
17:52
Speaker 1: I think he thinks what everybody thinks when you see
17:55
Speaker 1: the evidence. I mean, if you read this warrant, there's
17:57
Speaker 1: a strong, circumstantial case could be made in that war
18:00
Speaker 1: for murder. How bad does it seem right now? For Photus,
18:05
Speaker 1: I'm concerned. I still think he's a defendable case. I
18:09
Speaker 1: think he's engaged in some conduct that is questionable, but
18:12
Speaker 1: not necessarily guilt guilt worthy. Wow. Okay, back to Alexis
18:17
Speaker 1: red shot right oar online dot Com investigative reporter. What
18:22
Speaker 1: more do we know about the work project manager? That's
18:27
Speaker 1: a key witness, And I really believe Cops her onto
18:30
Speaker 1: something something very critical when Michel Chakonis, because I think
18:34
Speaker 1: she knows more. I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't
18:37
Speaker 1: have a very good idea where the body is? And
18:40
Speaker 1: another thing everybody wants to know online all the time,
18:43
Speaker 1: where are the children. The children, all five of them
18:46
Speaker 1: are with Jennifer Dulos mom in Manhattan, and the husband,
18:52
Speaker 1: Photus Dulos, is driving her insane. The other day he
18:56
Speaker 1: hit her with a demand to have her mentally evalue,
19:00
Speaker 1: waited the grandma. You know what, Okay, that's a whole
19:06
Speaker 1: other can of worms. So let's stress, Chuck, tell me
19:09
Speaker 1: what we know. So you were right. The coworker, the
19:11
Speaker 1: man who works with him, he was very suspicious. He
19:15
Speaker 1: has told police from the get go. He says that
19:17
Speaker 1: Fotus had you know, they'd switch cars and he wanted
19:20
Speaker 1: to keep the other car, and the co workers said, no,
19:23
Speaker 1: you have to give it back to me. And then
19:25
Speaker 1: when he brought it to him and he said that
19:26
Speaker 1: he needed to switch out the seeds, he knew immediately
19:29
Speaker 1: that this was something that was very suspicious. So instead
19:33
Speaker 1: of throwing them out or doing I think, he kept them.
19:34
Speaker 1: He knew that this was something that the police were
19:36
Speaker 1: going to come to him with, and they did. And
19:39
Speaker 1: what it also does is that it sets up the
19:41
Speaker 1: timeline to contradict the alibi that Fotus and Michelle first
19:46
Speaker 1: have floated she, as I said, is backtracking on it,
19:49
Speaker 1: but this is also going to contradict it because of
19:52
Speaker 1: the co workers timing with the car. This is going
19:55
Speaker 1: to show that Fotus had the car that Jennifer likely disappeared.
19:59
Speaker 1: In Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The warrant show surveillance
20:13
Speaker 1: photos of a red Toyota Tacoma that was seen in
20:15
Speaker 1: the same area where jennifer suburban was abandoned, not long
20:18
Speaker 1: before it pulls into eighty Mountain Springs Road at twelve
20:21
Speaker 1: to twenty two PM. That home is owned by the
20:23
Speaker 1: four group and has been in the sight of police investigations,
20:26
Speaker 1: and according to the warrant, police accused Potus of taking
20:29
Speaker 1: the truck to the car washing avon to get his
20:31
Speaker 1: truck detailed. The worker was asked to replace the seats
20:35
Speaker 1: and get rid of them, but that remarker kept the
20:37
Speaker 1: originals without Fotus's knowledge and gave them the abilities to
20:41
Speaker 1: be examined. Lab results of the seats tested positive for
20:44
Speaker 1: Jennifer's blood. And now Fotus has already been charged with
20:47
Speaker 1: tampering and hindering a prosecution. He's pled not guilty to
20:52
Speaker 1: those charges and will be in court in Norwalk on
20:54
Speaker 1: the twelve. You were just hearing more information regarding that
20:57
Speaker 1: Toyota Tacoma. We know that there are photos in the
21:02
Speaker 1: warrant in the area where Jennifer's abandoned suburban was found.
21:07
Speaker 1: That Toyota Tacoma just happens to be where her abandoned
21:12
Speaker 1: suburban is found. Photos show that Tacoma at a home
21:18
Speaker 1: owned by Dulos's construction company. The Tacoma seats test positive
21:24
Speaker 1: for Jennifer's blood. You were also hearing Fox sixty one
21:27
Speaker 1: reporter at Dave Pouglisi, he just told me something I
21:30
Speaker 1: didn't know, Alexis to investigative reporter water online dot Com. Alexis,
21:36
Speaker 1: I did not know. He tried to keep the Tacoma
21:41
Speaker 1: from the employee and not give it back, and when
21:44
Speaker 1: the employee insisted, he gave it back minus the back seat.
21:49
Speaker 1: Now did I get that right? He gave it back,
21:51
Speaker 1: but actually asked the employee to swap out the seats,
21:55
Speaker 1: and so he wanted the seats swapped out with a
21:57
Speaker 1: Toyota Tacoma. Do you know what kind of cart seats?
22:00
Speaker 1: One of them switched out with his Porsche seats, so
22:03
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how a Porsche back seat
22:05
Speaker 1: fits into a Toyota to come up, but I don't
22:08
Speaker 1: think it looks the same at all. Well, let me
22:09
Speaker 1: ask you a question. I thought I heard you say
22:11
Speaker 1: he photos Dulos tried to keep the Tacoma. He told
22:15
Speaker 1: me about that because I guarantee you if if Jennifer
22:20
Speaker 1: Dulos was in that car and her blood has been
22:22
Speaker 1: found on the seats, okay, he would probably if I
22:27
Speaker 1: had killed somebody, I would go and torch the car.
22:30
Speaker 1: I wouldn't wait for it to get stolen on a
22:31
Speaker 1: busy street. I would torch it. I would get rid
22:34
Speaker 1: of it. I would make it look like not that
22:37
Speaker 1: I would ever do this, but make it look like
22:39
Speaker 1: it was stolen, and then torch it. I didn't know
22:42
Speaker 1: he tried to keep the car, Alexis. That's what the
22:45
Speaker 1: employee said, that he tried to keep it, and the
22:46
Speaker 1: employee said, no, I have to have it back at
22:48
Speaker 1: I need to have my car back. Oh what a
22:50
Speaker 1: tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
22:55
Speaker 1: I love saying that to Jerry's I don't think he
22:57
Speaker 1: had the same effect on Darryl Cohen. One more thing,
23:00
Speaker 1: alexis toures check you told me, and I want you
23:02
Speaker 1: to explain this because this is very critical that the
23:05
Speaker 1: co worker or the employee, whichever one he is. He's
23:08
Speaker 1: a work project manager of Dulos. Story about the vehicle
23:14
Speaker 1: the Tacoma Torpedoes Photus Dulos first alibi explain Well, Photus
23:22
Speaker 1: and his girlfriend are saying that they were together at
23:25
Speaker 1: home and that they had shower ago. She changed that.
23:29
Speaker 1: But the employee can then talk about when Photus contacted
23:32
Speaker 1: him about the car and how he wanted to keep it,
23:35
Speaker 1: and so he has told investigators that this is something
23:39
Speaker 1: that was very, very very unusual. This wasn't normally what
23:42
Speaker 1: he would do, and that's why he wanted the car back.
23:44
Speaker 1: He thought it was so strange that he wanted to
23:46
Speaker 1: keep this car and then he brought it back. But
23:48
Speaker 1: you're saying it ruined the alibi. How does that ruin
23:51
Speaker 1: photos Dulos alibi because he said he was just home
23:54
Speaker 1: with Jennifer, not doing anything, but it said he's out
23:56
Speaker 1: driving this car. How do you know he was driving
23:58
Speaker 1: the car at the time of the alibi? I mean that,
24:00
Speaker 1: I mean he could have just had the car parked
24:01
Speaker 1: at home. How does that ruin the alibi because he's
24:03
Speaker 1: then on the camera at the car wash. Ah okay,
24:07
Speaker 1: wait all right, hold on, there you go. It's not
24:10
Speaker 1: that photos Dulos called and wanting to keep the car.
24:14
Speaker 1: You're telling me that the time Dulos and a shelter
24:18
Speaker 1: Conas say there at home all loved up, they're spotted
24:22
Speaker 1: on video cleaning out the Toyota Tacoma. Is that correct?
24:25
Speaker 1: That's very critical of oasis? Is that right? Yes? To
24:29
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor and the same office where I
24:33
Speaker 1: learned to try cases, the Fulton County District Attorney's office
24:36
Speaker 1: in Inner City Atlanta, now defense attorney Daryl Cohen. You
24:41
Speaker 1: know what Jerry's love, Daryl. They love video. They love video,
24:45
Speaker 1: and when you put it to a jury, they say
24:49
Speaker 1: they're at home and they're jammys having mimosas and waffles,
24:55
Speaker 1: but instead they're at Quick Clean d telling the employees
25:02
Speaker 1: Tacoma at the car wash. M. I hate to steal
25:07
Speaker 1: from McDonald's, but I'm loving it. I Yeah, they did
25:10
Speaker 1: a great job there. You always tell a nice lie
25:14
Speaker 1: that video will show is a lie, as soon as
25:18
Speaker 1: you do that, juries love it. The more video evidence,
25:22
Speaker 1: the more DNA evidence, the more I saw it happen evidence,
25:26
Speaker 1: the more they dig their grave even deeper. And we're
25:30
Speaker 1: just waiting for that arrest, just waiting with bated breath.
25:35
Speaker 1: And Michelle Tracona is the lover. Was it worth it?
25:39
Speaker 1: Was it worth dating a married man with all the
25:42
Speaker 1: men in the world. Yeah, I have to day a merryman.
25:45
Speaker 1: There's that's nothing but problems. It ain't worth it. Ladies,
25:50
Speaker 1: When Shell Tracona's dates Photos Dulos, and now she is
25:55
Speaker 1: being brought in for a third interview a double array,
26:00
Speaker 1: take a listen to Fox sixty one's Tony Terzi. On
26:04
Speaker 1: August thirteenth, according to an arrest warrant released following Photos
26:08
Speaker 1: Stulos's most recent arrest, yesterday, State police conducted their third
26:14
Speaker 1: recorded interview with Traconis. Police say she admitted that during
26:18
Speaker 1: her two previous interviews she lied. She allegedly told investigators
26:23
Speaker 1: during that August interview that she had not physically seen
26:26
Speaker 1: Photos Stulos during the morning of May twenty fourth, the
26:30
Speaker 1: day on which Stulos's a stranged wife, Jennifer, was reported missing,
26:35
Speaker 1: but Prior to this August interview, cops say she said
26:39
Speaker 1: that she and Dulos had showered together that morning. Also
26:43
Speaker 1: in August, Traconis said that on the afternoon of May
26:46
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, she witnessed Dulos cleaning what he described as
26:51
Speaker 1: a coffee spill inside of an employee's two thousand and
26:55
Speaker 1: one Toyota Tacoma, which police believe is the vehicle that
27:00
Speaker 1: Duelos used in the commission of the supposed crime. A
27:05
Speaker 1: shower with photos of Dulos ill. Why did I have
27:09
Speaker 1: to hear that detail? You know, its little details like that.
27:12
Speaker 1: Darryl co and former prosecutor now defense attorney the Atlanta jurisdiction,
27:16
Speaker 1: they come back to bite you in the neck. A shower,
27:19
Speaker 1: I can just see you. Think of all the bubble
27:21
Speaker 1: bath and the SuDS and the loofah blah blah. He's
27:25
Speaker 1: out detailing the blood out of the back seat of
27:27
Speaker 1: his employees car. Anything but a shower. Water wasn't involved,
27:30
Speaker 1: that's true, but it was at a car wash. Well,
27:32
Speaker 1: the car wash was certainly giving the shower credibility. An
27:37
Speaker 1: you were going to say that, just so you know,
27:39
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say that. Going for
27:40
Speaker 1: a place for the shower. The car was taking a
27:43
Speaker 1: shower down. Why is it when you tell a lie?
27:47
Speaker 1: You know, I love it when defense tell a lie,
27:50
Speaker 1: But it can't just be a lie we were at home.
27:53
Speaker 1: It has to be a really extravagant lie, rich in detail.
27:56
Speaker 1: Like we were at home and we were having a shower,
28:00
Speaker 1: were together. It was so romantic, and then we had
28:04
Speaker 1: tea in the backyard. Watch the sun come. I mean,
28:07
Speaker 1: it goes on and on. I mean, it's not just
28:09
Speaker 1: a lie, it's a whopper, Daryl. Why do people do that?
28:13
Speaker 1: Because they forget that when you tell a lie, you
28:15
Speaker 1: have to remember what you said. And the more you lie,
28:18
Speaker 1: the more you have to remember, the more you have
28:21
Speaker 1: to concoct the story. And oh my gosh, did I
28:24
Speaker 1: say that? Well, I guess I did. So it never works,
28:28
Speaker 1: It just doesn't. I tell people all the time, don't
28:32
Speaker 1: tell a lie, tell the truth. You don't don't say anything, right, Yeah,
28:36
Speaker 1: just don't say anything, you know what, Nancy kyd bms.
28:40
Speaker 1: That means, keep your damn big mouth shut. And if
28:43
Speaker 1: they had kept their mouth shut, life would have been
28:45
Speaker 1: just a little bit different. But we're going to see
28:49
Speaker 1: a little story here, Words to Live by Daryl Cohen,
28:52
Speaker 1: Words to Live by Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and
29:09
Speaker 1: when questioned about the towel, Dulos used that he asked
29:13
Speaker 1: her to throw away. Triconis admitted that the towel did
29:16
Speaker 1: not smell of coffee. The following week, when Dulos went
29:20
Speaker 1: to get his employee's truck detailed and washed at an
29:24
Speaker 1: Avon car wash, Traconis initially allegedly told police he just
29:29
Speaker 1: called her to pick him up there, but when pressed
29:33
Speaker 1: during the August interview with surveillance photos, she admitted to
29:37
Speaker 1: following him to the car wash, and when Traconis was
29:40
Speaker 1: asked by investigators why she thought Dulos would be washing
29:44
Speaker 1: the Tacoma, her reply was quote, well, obviously, all of
29:48
Speaker 1: the evidence says because you showed me the picture of
29:51
Speaker 1: the blood in the door, it's because the body of
29:54
Speaker 1: Jennifer at some point was in there. Another fact we
29:58
Speaker 1: are just learning. You are hearing right there. Fox sixty
30:01
Speaker 1: one reporter Tony Terzi. Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of
30:06
Speaker 1: Beer Bones Consulting, Karen, I just learned any fact. The
30:10
Speaker 1: blood is not just on the back seat, The blood
30:14
Speaker 1: is on the door, according to the girlfriend, and she's
30:17
Speaker 1: recounting what she sees in police photos. That gives me
30:21
Speaker 1: a really good idea of what happened. Explain, there is
30:24
Speaker 1: blood everywhere, Nancy. It's not just on the door, it's
30:27
Speaker 1: not just on the seat. It's in Jennifer Dulos's garage.
30:30
Speaker 1: And the way police described it in the affid davit
30:33
Speaker 1: was spatter, not just a blood scene. Spatter. Spatter doesn't
30:38
Speaker 1: just happen. That is indicative of a violent event happening
30:43
Speaker 1: in that garage. Not only was it on the floor,
30:45
Speaker 1: not only was it on other surfaces. There was a
30:47
Speaker 1: second car parked in that garage, and there was blood
30:50
Speaker 1: spatter on that car, which tells me that either a
30:55
Speaker 1: blunt force trauma event or possibly a gunshot depending on
30:59
Speaker 1: the type of that was found. That's what we're dealing
31:02
Speaker 1: with here. So you have the garage, you have the
31:05
Speaker 1: car in the garage, you have the Toyota Tacoma with
31:08
Speaker 1: the seats that were removed that had blood stains on them.
31:11
Speaker 1: I'd like to know the type of blood stains, how
31:13
Speaker 1: deep it went, how large the stain was, what type
31:15
Speaker 1: of blood stain it was. Was it spatter, was it
31:17
Speaker 1: a pooling, was it a dripping? All of those things,
31:20
Speaker 1: Plus you have the blood on the clothes that we're
31:22
Speaker 1: found in trash cans and all of the other items
31:25
Speaker 1: in there as well. So we're dealing with lots and
31:28
Speaker 1: lots of blood and lots of different places, and every
31:31
Speaker 1: single bit of it points right back to Michelter Konas
31:34
Speaker 1: and Bodis Dulos. She'd been her watch out. She goes
31:36
Speaker 1: to catch herself from accessory and murder charge if she
31:40
Speaker 1: doesn't come clean and I mean totally clean. Back to you,
31:44
Speaker 1: Karen Smith, Beer Bugs consulting forensics expert. You have very
31:49
Speaker 1: carefully reviewed the facts as we know them now. If
31:51
Speaker 1: you could recount where Jennifer Dulos, a mom of five,
31:55
Speaker 1: blood has been found. They found blood. They went to
31:59
Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulos house and they found They did DNA testing
32:02
Speaker 1: and they found her blood in the garage of her
32:05
Speaker 1: own rented home. They also did forensic testing in DNA
32:09
Speaker 1: testing on blood stains found in the Toyota to come
32:12
Speaker 1: up pick up the seats that were removed by the employee.
32:15
Speaker 1: That blood came back to Jennifer Dulos. They did forensic
32:19
Speaker 1: testing on Jennifer Dulos's twenty seventeen Chevy Suburban that was abandoned,
32:25
Speaker 1: and the blood on the exterior and interior of that
32:28
Speaker 1: vehicle came back to Jennifer Dulos. They did forensic testing
32:32
Speaker 1: on clothing and items found in bags that were deposited
32:35
Speaker 1: all over the place, and that blood as well, all
32:39
Speaker 1: came back to Jennifer Dulos. They are so much evidence
32:43
Speaker 1: in this case, it's incredible to me. You mentioned a
32:46
Speaker 1: second car in the garage. Yeah, there was apparently another
32:49
Speaker 1: car parked off to the side in the garage, and
32:52
Speaker 1: they found blood stains on that car, which tells me
32:55
Speaker 1: a violent event occurred. Nancy, blood breaks up commensurate in
32:59
Speaker 1: size with the amount of force impacted upon it, so
33:02
Speaker 1: it doesn't spatter, doesn't just happen. A force has to
33:05
Speaker 1: create that, and it has to take more than one
33:08
Speaker 1: strike for it to be created. So that tells me
33:10
Speaker 1: and the police that a very violent event occurred in
33:13
Speaker 1: that garage that's likely the primary crime scene. Take a
33:16
Speaker 1: listen to CBS two's Hazel Sanchez. The warrant states the
33:19
Speaker 1: owner of the borrowed truck went to police, telling them
33:22
Speaker 1: fotus Dulos and his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, used his truck
33:26
Speaker 1: on the day Jennifer Dulos disappeared and got it cleaned
33:29
Speaker 1: five days later without his permission. He also claimed Fotus
33:33
Speaker 1: Dulos insisted he swap out the truck's seats. The warrant
33:36
Speaker 1: says a blood like substance was found in the truck
33:39
Speaker 1: and when police asked Dulos's girlfriend why they had the
33:42
Speaker 1: truck cleaned, she allegedly answered, you showed me the picture
33:45
Speaker 1: of the blood in the door. It's because the body
33:48
Speaker 1: of Jennifer at some point was in there. Police are
33:50
Speaker 1: revealing new theories and evidence after Fotus Dulos, the estranged husband,
33:55
Speaker 1: and his lover, Michel Traconis, were arrested for a second
33:59
Speaker 1: time in connection with the disappearance of Mama five Jennifer
34:05
Speaker 1: Dulos for a second time. In the last days, police
34:08
Speaker 1: arrest not only Fotused Dulos, but Michelle Traconis as well.
34:12
Speaker 1: Dulos is a luxury home builder. He was arrested at
34:17
Speaker 1: his Farmington home. Triconis. The girlfriend turned herself into state
34:23
Speaker 1: police in Bridgeport when she found out there's another rest
34:26
Speaker 1: coming down. They're both free after posting bond, and they
34:30
Speaker 1: are set to reappear in Superior Court in Stamford later
34:34
Speaker 1: this month. Now there's a forty three page arrest affidavit
34:40
Speaker 1: and it outlines a host of evidence in theories regarding
34:45
Speaker 1: Dulos's whereabouts the day Jennifer goes missing and attempts, Police
34:52
Speaker 1: say Dulos and Triconis made to get rid of evidence.
34:59
Speaker 1: To Daryl Cohen, what happens when you help get rid
35:04
Speaker 1: of evidence in a brutal murder? Well, I think that
35:08
Speaker 1: we're looking at Houdini because I think we're going to
35:12
Speaker 1: have a girlfriend that's going to change her spots and
35:17
Speaker 1: because she's going to get a deal. She is not
35:20
Speaker 1: going to be prosecuted for murder. If not, she's going
35:23
Speaker 1: down with her boyfriend that they can just go have
35:26
Speaker 1: a shower together in the state prison. Yeah, it'll be
35:29
Speaker 1: in a nice group shower behind bars, you know. Using
35:33
Speaker 1: surveillance video and other evidence, cop say Dulos went to
35:38
Speaker 1: the wealthy enclave of New Canaan, and he went there
35:43
Speaker 1: that morning while his wife Jennifer was in drop off.
35:47
Speaker 1: They claim he was quote I'm quoting from the affidavit,
35:51
Speaker 1: lying in wait at sixty nine Wells Lane for his
35:55
Speaker 1: wife to return home. The last images of her shows
36:01
Speaker 1: Jennifer driving back home after dropping her children at school.
36:06
Speaker 1: That was on a neighbor's security camera home surveillance video
36:11
Speaker 1: at eight o five a m Wow. Investigators are convinced
36:19
Speaker 1: a violent crime happened in Jennifer's home between eight oh
36:22
Speaker 1: five and ten twenty five. Why because jennifer Chevy suburban
36:29
Speaker 1: was seen on surveillance camera leaving the home around ten
36:34
Speaker 1: twenty five am. We're learning all of this from the affidavit,
36:39
Speaker 1: so they see her going in at around eight to five,
36:43
Speaker 1: her vehicle leaving at ten twenty five. I just wonder,
36:46
Speaker 1: Karen Smith, if they can make out him driving the vehicle.
36:50
Speaker 1: That's gonna take some doing, But apparently they have some
36:53
Speaker 1: really good footage of him, not necessarily inside of that car,
36:58
Speaker 1: but they have footage of him inside the Toyota Tacoma
37:01
Speaker 1: at a bank, leaning out of the driver's window and
37:04
Speaker 1: Michelle Turkonis is in the passenger seat. That video is
37:08
Speaker 1: clear as day he was inside that Toyota. He was
37:11
Speaker 1: at the bank getting money to pay for the car wash.
37:14
Speaker 1: So even though they might not be able to place
37:16
Speaker 1: his face inside of that vehicle driving away from her home.
37:19
Speaker 1: There is so much other circumstantial evidence pointing directly to
37:22
Speaker 1: these two. I don't know how they're going to get
37:24
Speaker 1: around it. You know, I can't. I realize this. Alexis
37:26
Speaker 1: tres chwriter online dot com when we were covering the
37:29
Speaker 1: Sarah Stearn case and I was speaking, you know, the
37:32
Speaker 1: team that goes Missing from New England, and her so
37:35
Speaker 1: called best friends had murdered her to steal her mom's money.
37:40
Speaker 1: The mom had left her about ten grand and I
37:43
Speaker 1: found out that you could see her car coming in
37:45
Speaker 1: and out of her house through the neighbors surveillis, but
37:47
Speaker 1: you couldn't see who was driving it. And I'm wondering
37:50
Speaker 1: if that's true here, Alexis. It seemed like the police,
37:54
Speaker 1: well the police have said they believe he was driving it,
37:57
Speaker 1: but I don't think that you can actually see who
37:59
Speaker 1: was driving. It might be the angle of the camera
38:01
Speaker 1: and the neighbor's house was so just you cannot see
38:04
Speaker 1: the driver, but you can see the car. And you know,
38:07
Speaker 1: even if so, let's say fast forward, you know, she
38:11
Speaker 1: never comes out of this house again, and she never
38:15
Speaker 1: shows up anywhere else again so somebody did something bad
38:19
Speaker 1: to her and it was most likely excellent, Well, they say,
38:22
Speaker 1: just as you say, Alex is correctly. The affidavit says,
38:26
Speaker 1: quote Doulos is believed to be operating Jennifer's vehicle, and
38:31
Speaker 1: that that vehicle is carrying Jennifer's body and another of
38:35
Speaker 1: other items associated with the cleanup which occurred in the
38:39
Speaker 1: garage of that residence. And of course Karen Smith forensics expert,
38:43
Speaker 1: they can look with luminol and see if there's a
38:48
Speaker 1: cleanup of blood. Absolutely to me, it sounds like if
38:53
Speaker 1: there was spatter, they didn't get it at all. Nanthew,
38:56
Speaker 1: You and I know you're not going to get every
38:58
Speaker 1: drop of blood outside of a crime scene. You're not
39:01
Speaker 1: going to clean it all up. You're gonna miss something.
39:03
Speaker 1: And somebody with a keen eye and something as simple
39:06
Speaker 1: as a magnifying glass, we're gonna find it. I would
39:09
Speaker 1: crack my knuckles to get inside that garage because I
39:12
Speaker 1: would find it, and I know the police did too.
39:14
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, another piece of evidence we've totally overlooked. I'm
39:18
Speaker 1: drinking from a fire hydrant here. There's too much, too fast.
39:21
Speaker 1: Cellular data, according to the affidavit, shows Jennifer's phone moving
39:28
Speaker 1: from Wells Lane to Lapham Road where her car was
39:31
Speaker 1: found abandoned during that ten twenty five am time period,
39:37
Speaker 1: which means she had her cell phone with her in
39:38
Speaker 1: the car which she dropped her children off and it
39:40
Speaker 1: was still in the car and her killer didn't know that,
39:46
Speaker 1: and the cell phone traveled with the car to where
39:49
Speaker 1: her car was abandoned. We wait as justice unfolds Nancy
39:54
Speaker 1: Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye friend,